Two articles today for those that like up to date football lists and
rankings...

https://khelnow.com/football/2023-07-world-football-ligue-1-drop-down-7th-uefas-latest-european-league-rankings

https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveprice/2023/07/04/why-frances-ligue-1-has-dropped-out-of-uefas-top-five-leagues/?sh=132ddaa4e152

On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 5:09:10 PM UTC+2, Blueshirt wrote:
> Two articles today for those that like up to date football lists and
> rankings...
>
> https://khelnow.com/football/2023-07-world-football-ligue-1-drop-down-7th-uefas-latest-european-league-rankings
>
>
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveprice/2023/07/04/why-frances-ligue-1-has-dropped-out-of-uefas-top-five-leagues/?sh=132ddaa4e152

These articles are a bit sensationalist since they make it sound as if this 'latest' European ranking (actually
well-known for a couple of months) was some truth bomb out of nowhere when in fact that 7th place is their
ranking for *one season* (2022/23) out of the five used for UEFA's actual ranking. Back in 2020/21 France
were actually in a worse position as they finished that season in 8th, but a year later in 2021/22 they were
fourth. One-year rankings don't tell you all that much.

*But* having said that, I agree that it will indeed be not that easy for France to maintain their Top 5 position
going into this season. The Dutch Eredivisie has had a better coefficient than Ligue 1 for the last three consecutive
seasons (buoyed mostly by excellent Conference League campaigns) and so is ahead on aggregate at the moment
by the slightest of margins (just 0.186 points, roughly one drawn match).

And this fight will become particularly interesting as from next year UEFA's new Access List will give an additional
third guaranteed place in the group stage of the revamped Champions League to the league ranked in #5 while
league #6 will only have the same two spots as before.

BTW for all topics regarding the coefficient always refer to Bert Kassies's inimitable site that blows UEFA's own
coverage out of the water.

5-year-ranking: https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/crank2024.html
Access List 24/25: https://kassiesa.net/uefa/AccessList2024.html

Ciao,
Werner

On 2023-07-04 09:49, Werner Pichler wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 5:09:10 PM UTC+2, Blueshirt wrote:
>> Two articles today for those that like up to date football lists and
>> rankings...
>>
>> https://khelnow.com/football/2023-07-world-football-ligue-1-drop-down-7th-uefas-latest-european-league-rankings
>>
>>
>> https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveprice/2023/07/04/why-frances-ligue-1-has-dropped-out-of-uefas-top-five-leagues/?sh=132ddaa4e152
>
>
> These articles are a bit sensationalist since they make it sound as if this 'latest' European ranking (actually
> well-known for a couple of months) was some truth bomb out of nowhere when in fact that 7th place is their
> ranking for *one season* (2022/23) out of the five used for UEFA's actual ranking. Back in 2020/21 France
> were actually in a worse position as they finished that season in 8th, but a year later in 2021/22 they were
> fourth. One-year rankings don't tell you all that much.
>
I too found these articles irritating. France finished the 5 year cycle
ending in 2023 in 5th place. That, as you know, determines their
standing for the 2024-2025 season in terms of numbers of participants
and where (or has that delay changed?)
They lost a good year relative to the NL (2018-19), and so start this
cycle (currently only counting 4 years and some automatic bonus points)
marginally behind the Dutch. If PSG, Lens, Marseille and Lille play to
potential this season, there is no reason that they could not hold on to
5th. On the other hand, as you say, Ajax and AZ could pile on the
points in the less prestigious competitions.

> *But* having said that, I agree that it will indeed be not that easy for France to maintain their Top 5 position
> going into this season. The Dutch Eredivisie has had a better coefficient than Ligue 1 for the last three consecutive
> seasons (buoyed mostly by excellent Conference League campaigns) and so is ahead on aggregate at the moment
> by the slightest of margins (just 0.186 points, roughly one drawn match).
>
> And this fight will become particularly interesting as from next year UEFA's new Access List will give an additional
> third guaranteed place in the group stage of the revamped Champions League to the league ranked in #5 while
> league #6 will only have the same two spots as before.
>
>
> BTW for all topics regarding the coefficient always refer to Bert Kassies's inimitable site that blows UEFA's own
> coverage out of the water.
>
> 5-year-ranking: https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/crank2024.html
> Access List 24/25: https://kassiesa.net/uefa/AccessList2024.html
>
>
> Ciao,
> Werner

On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 6:48:12 PM UTC+2, MH wrote:
> On 2023-07-04 09:49, Werner Pichler wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 5:09:10 PM UTC+2, Blueshirt wrote:
> >> Two articles today for those that like up to date football lists and
> >> rankings...
> >>
> >> https://khelnow.com/football/2023-07-world-football-ligue-1-drop-down-7th-uefas-latest-european-league-rankings
> >>
> >>
> >> https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveprice/2023/07/04/why-frances-ligue-1-has-dropped-out-of-uefas-top-five-leagues/?sh=132ddaa4e152
> >
> >
> > These articles are a bit sensationalist since they make it sound as if this 'latest' European ranking (actually
> > well-known for a couple of months) was some truth bomb out of nowhere when in fact that 7th place is their
> > ranking for *one season* (2022/23) out of the five used for UEFA's actual ranking. Back in 2020/21 France
> > were actually in a worse position as they finished that season in 8th, but a year later in 2021/22 they were
> > fourth. One-year rankings don't tell you all that much.
> >
> I too found these articles irritating. France finished the 5 year cycle
> ending in 2023 in 5th place. That, as you know, determines their
> standing for the 2024-2025 season in terms of numbers of participants
> and where (or has that delay changed?)

No, of course it hasn't (because of the summer leagues), but UEFA are taking their own
sweet time making their new Access List official. The general outline has been leaked (that's
where Bert's table is from), but there are still some details to be fleshed out (about the
re-allocation of berths under certain conditions, or regarding Russia's exclusion) which
makes it a bit awkward e.g. for Norway or Iceland where the respective positions of cup
winners and league runners-up are still unclear, so clubs currently in the running for both
don't really know which to prioritize.

> They lost a good year relative to the NL (2018-19), and so start this
> cycle (currently only counting 4 years and some automatic bonus points)
> marginally behind the Dutch. If PSG, Lens, Marseille and Lille play to
> potential this season, there is no reason that they could not hold on to
> 5th. On the other hand, as you say, Ajax and AZ could pile on the
> points in the less prestigious competitions.

It used to be Portugal in a dogfight with France for fifth, but they've fallen a bit
behind as they hardly ever collect points in the Conference League - the gap after
their top 4 is so big that nobody ever qualifies (Vitória Guimarães, Gil Vicente,
Santa Clara, Paços de Ferreira all failed).

Ciao,
Werner

MH wrote:

> If PSG,Lens,Marseille and Lille play to potential this season there is
> no reason that they could not hold on to 5th. On the other hand, as
> you say, Ajax and AZ could pile on the points in the less prestigious
> competitions.

I'd certainly put money on Ajax and AZ Alkmaar going further in Europe
than RC Lens, Marseille or Lille!

PSG are a mixed bag, another new manager whose main goal is to win the
Champions League. Don't see it, but anything can happen once you reach
the knockout stages. So it's not over until it's over.

I'm backing French football anyway. My 27th favourite team is now RC
Strasbourg Alsace*... so hopefully with Viera in charge they can climb
that table and reach the dizzy heights of European football once again.
Allons les chemises bleues !

* It was formerly Vitesse Arnhem in case anyone was wondering... ;-)

On 2023-07-05 13:23, Blueshirt wrote:
> MH wrote:
>
>> If PSG,Lens,Marseille and Lille play to potential this season there is
>> no reason that they could not hold on to 5th. On the other hand, as
>> you say, Ajax and AZ could pile on the points in the less prestigious
>> competitions.
>
> I'd certainly put money on Ajax and AZ Alkmaar going further in Europe
> than RC Lens, Marseille or Lille!

Kind of depends how much they care (especially Ajax) about the Europa
league. Feyenoord are a pot 1 seed, so I suppose they could make it to
the knockout phase if they can avoid drawing (eg. Real Madrid or Inter
or Arsenal or Man United; Lazio or Milan and so on) Depends if they
can keep key players, which Dutch clubs have some trouble doing.
PSV have to qualify, as do Marseille, and it is not impossible that they
could meet in the final qualifying round.
>
> PSG are a mixed bag, another new manager whose main goal is to win the
> Champions League. Don't see it, but anything can happen once you reach
> the knockout stages. So it's not over until it's over.
>
> I'm backing French football anyway. My 27th favourite team is now RC
> Strasbourg Alsace*... so hopefully with Viera in charge they can climb
> that table and reach the dizzy heights of European football once again.
> Allons les chemises bleues !
>
>
> * It was formerly Vitesse Arnhem in case anyone was wondering... ;-)
>
>

MH wrote:

> On 2023-07-05 13:23, Blueshirt wrote:
> >
> > I'd certainly put money on Ajax and AZ Alkmaar going further in Europe
> > than RC Lens, Marseille or Lille!
>
> Kind of depends how much they care (especially Ajax) about the Europa
> league. Feyenoord are a pot 1 seed, so I suppose they could make it to
> the knockout phase if they can avoid drawing (eg. Real Madrid or Inter
> or Arsenal or Man United; Lazio or Milan and so on) Depends if they
> can keep key players, which Dutch clubs have some trouble doing. PSV
> have to qualify, as do Marseille, and it is not impossible that they
> could meet in the final qualifying round.

I actually think the Europa League has a good bit of credibility now,
teams generally want to win it. (A place in the UEFA Champions League the
following season has helped there.) Chelsea have won the Europa League
twice in the last ten years or so and it generally wouldn't have been
high up on their agenda. (Ambramovich always saw the Champions League as
the Holy Grail.) I can't speak for Ajax but I'd be surprised if they
didn't care about it.

Now I've said that they'll probably go and get knocked out in the
play-off round! ;-)

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 3:14:50 PM UTC+2, Werner Pichler wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 6:48:12 PM UTC+2, MH wrote:
> > On 2023-07-04 09:49, Werner Pichler wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 5:09:10 PM UTC+2, Blueshirt wrote:
> > >> Two articles today for those that like up to date football lists and
> > >> rankings...
> > >>
> > >> https://khelnow.com/football/2023-07-world-football-ligue-1-drop-down-7th-uefas-latest-european-league-rankings
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveprice/2023/07/04/why-frances-ligue-1-has-dropped-out-of-uefas-top-five-leagues/?sh=132ddaa4e152
> > >
> > >
> > > These articles are a bit sensationalist since they make it sound as if this 'latest' European ranking (actually
> > > well-known for a couple of months) was some truth bomb out of nowhere when in fact that 7th place is their
> > > ranking for *one season* (2022/23) out of the five used for UEFA's actual ranking. Back in 2020/21 France
> > > were actually in a worse position as they finished that season in 8th, but a year later in 2021/22 they were
> > > fourth. One-year rankings don't tell you all that much.
> > >
> > I too found these articles irritating. France finished the 5 year cycle
> > ending in 2023 in 5th place. That, as you know, determines their
> > standing for the 2024-2025 season in terms of numbers of participants
> > and where (or has that delay changed?)
>
> No, of course it hasn't (because of the summer leagues), but UEFA are taking their own
> sweet time making their new Access List official.

Ask and ye shall receive - UEFA just released a circular (No.36) pretty much confirming all the leaked
details. https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/documentlibrary/about-uefa/circular-letters/

> The general outline has been leaked (that's
> where Bert's table is from), but there are still some details to be fleshed out (about the
> re-allocation of berths under certain conditions, or regarding Russia's exclusion) which
> makes it a bit awkward e.g. for Norway or Iceland where the respective positions of cup
> winners and league runners-up are still unclear, so clubs currently in the running for both
> don't really know which to prioritize.

Being a cup winner is better, they are prioritized over runners-up to enter the (new) Europa League
instead of the (new) Conference League (incidentally, the Conference League will drop the
'Europa' moniker).

Ciao,
Werner