On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 11:39:46 AM UTC-4, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 4:59:24 AM UTC-4, Werner Pichler wrote:
>
> > I haven't checked - how much overlap is there between the two sides?
> > Could it actually be two golden generations close to each other?
> > I know Gloukh is now there for the Euro after having missed the World Cup.
> As far as I can tell, 5 players from the WC U20 roster are also in the Euro U21 roster:
>
> Tomer Tzarfati: reserve GK, but will start the semifinal because the starting goalie has accumulated two yellows
> Dor Turgeman: starting forward in the U21
> Stav Lemkin: central defender, started all 4 matches
> Roy Revivo (yes, the son of Haim -- I wasn't sure initially because Revivo is not that unusual a surname): Has played in three of the four matches
> Anan Khalaili: has come in as a sub in all 4 matches
>
> It looks as if three more players (Gloukh, Gorno and Abu Rumi) would have been eligible for the U20 WC, but were not called up/released by their teams.

For comparison, Italy's U21 squad (in which 20 of the 23 players are at least regular rotation players in Serie A/other top 5 leagues) does not have a single player who also played in the U20 WC, and only 4 of them would have been eligible: Udogie, Miretti, Gnonto and Scalvini.

On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 12:30:39 AM UTC+2, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 2:35:17 PM UTC-4, Werner Pichler wrote:
>
> > > FT: Israel wins 3-2 and advances to the semis. This will go straight into the pantheon of greatest ever Israeli sporting achievements. Wow!
> > Followed straight up by a semifinal in the U-21 Euros, and a berth at the 2024 Paris Olympic Football Tournament.
> >
> > I'd even rank that one a bit higher, I'm personally quite convinced that U-21 successes are noticeably closer to senior
> > results than ones by U-20 sides.
>
> Probably true, as U21 is really a U23 side, so players are much more likely to be closer to the finished product. I wonder though for team like Israel whether one
> golden generation is enough to make up the gap with the established powers.

I've come across a reddit comment that made me reflect on this and
consider a certain eurocentrism, because it was correctly pointed out
that CONMEBOL has no equivalent to UEFA's U21/U23 cycle and so the
U20 World Cup and its qualifiers are the end-all be-all in South American
youth football with the corresponding prestige.

While U-20 players in European football are often in a strange sort of limbo
where they only are released from their clubs when they are not yet an
integral part of the senior team - which, at that age, they ought to be if
they are real talents (see, again, Gloukh).

So perhaps I'm underrating Israel's U-20 achievement a bit. They did eliminate
the best Brazil youth side available.

BTW end of the fairy tales in the U-21 semis, England v Israel finished 3-0 and
Spain v Ukraine 5-1.

Ciao,
Werner

On 2023-07-06 03:54, Werner Pichler wrote:
> On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 12:30:39 AM UTC+2, Futbolmetrix wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 2:35:17 PM UTC-4, Werner Pichler wrote:
>>
>>>> FT: Israel wins 3-2 and advances to the semis. This will go straight into the pantheon of greatest ever Israeli sporting achievements. Wow!
>>> Followed straight up by a semifinal in the U-21 Euros, and a berth at the 2024 Paris Olympic Football Tournament.
>>>
>>> I'd even rank that one a bit higher, I'm personally quite convinced that U-21 successes are noticeably closer to senior
>>> results than ones by U-20 sides.
>>
>> Probably true, as U21 is really a U23 side, so players are much more likely to be closer to the finished product. I wonder though for team like Israel whether one
>> golden generation is enough to make up the gap with the established powers.
>
> I've come across a reddit comment that made me reflect on this and
> consider a certain eurocentrism, because it was correctly pointed out
> that CONMEBOL has no equivalent to UEFA's U21/U23 cycle

Well it does have Olympic qualification , though that is on a four year
cycle.

On that topic, the EURO "U21" competition is for players born after
January 1, 2020. A lot of those players would no longer be 23 or under
for the Olympics next year (looking at Spain in particular) - seems a
bit odd.

and so the
> U20 World Cup and its qualifiers are the end-all be-all in South American
> youth football with the corresponding prestige.
>
> While U-20 players in European football are often in a strange sort of limbo
> where they only are released from their clubs when they are not yet an
> integral part of the senior team - which, at that age, they ought to be if
> they are real talents (see, again, Gloukh).
>
> So perhaps I'm underrating Israel's U-20 achievement a bit. They did eliminate
> the best Brazil youth side available.
>
> BTW end of the fairy tales in the U-21 semis, England v Israel finished 3-0 and
> Spain v Ukraine 5-1.
>
>
> Ciao,
> Werner