This single-seater was photographed in New Zealand during a British 'tour approx 1958/59. I had thought it was a Vanwall, but could it be another marque or even another formula such F2? This is the Facebook link to the photo: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10227248399857296&set=gm.2547582875374556 Thanks for any help.,

On 2/21/2022 4:42 PM, bra wrote:
> This single-seater was photographed in New Zealand during a British
> 'tour approx 1958/59. I had thought it was a Vanwall, but could it
> be another marque or even another formula such F2? This is the
> Facebook link to the photo:
> https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10227248399857296&set=gm.2547582875374556
> Thanks for any help.,

"Sorry, this content isn't available right now" - but almost certainly a
Connaught.

There's nothing about racing in New Zealand in /Vanwall/ (Jenkinson &
Posthumus) so no.

Ron Duncan raced an old Connaught A (F2) around New Zealand in at least
1958 and 1959 - he was DNS in the NZ GP both years. And in 1958 Roy
Salvadori was campaigning a Connaught B (F1), finishing 5th in the NZ
GP. That's the type most likely to be mistaken for a Vanwall:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connaught_Engineering#/media/File:Beaulieu_National_Motor_Museum_Connaught_Type_B_(1955)_15-10-2011_13-10-02.png

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
An object is a monotonous process.
- Nelson Goodman

On 2/21/2022 5:37 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
> On 2/21/2022 4:42 PM, bra wrote:
>> This single-seater was photographed in New Zealand during a British
>> 'tour approx 1958/59.  I had thought it was a Vanwall, but could it
>> be another marque or even another formula such F2?  This is the
>> Facebook link to the photo:
>> https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10227248399857296&set=gm.2547582875374556
>>
>> Thanks for any help.,
>
> "Sorry, this content isn't available right now" - but almost certainly a
> Connaught.
>
> There's nothing about racing in New Zealand in /Vanwall/ (Jenkinson &
> Posthumus) so no.
>
> Ron Duncan raced an old Connaught A (F2) around New Zealand in at least
> 1958 and 1959 - he was DNS in the NZ GP both years.  And in 1958 Roy
> Salvadori was campaigning a Connaught B (F1), finishing 5th in the NZ
> GP.  That's the type most likely to be mistaken for a Vanwall:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connaught_Engineering#/media/File:Beaulieu_National_Motor_Museum_Connaught_Type_B_(1955)_15-10-2011_13-10-02.png

.. . .although both types appeared in a variety of bodywork
configurations. Try Google image searches for connaught a and connaught b.

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
An object is a monotonous process.
- Nelson Goodman

On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 2:54:51 PM UTC-8, Mark Jackson wrote:
> On 2/21/2022 5:37 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
> > On 2/21/2022 4:42 PM, bra wrote:
> >> This single-seater was photographed in New Zealand during a British
> >> 'tour approx 1958/59. I had thought it was a Vanwall, but could it
> >> be another marque or even another formula such F2? This is the
> >> Facebook link to the photo:
> >> https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10227248399857296&set=gm.2547582875374556
> >>
> >> Thanks for any help.,
> >
> > "Sorry, this content isn't available right now" - but almost certainly a
> > Connaught.
> >
> > There's nothing about racing in New Zealand in /Vanwall/ (Jenkinson &
> > Posthumus) so no.
> >
> > Ron Duncan raced an old Connaught A (F2) around New Zealand in at least
> > 1958 and 1959 - he was DNS in the NZ GP both years. And in 1958 Roy
> > Salvadori was campaigning a Connaught B (F1), finishing 5th in the NZ
> > GP. That's the type most likely to be mistaken for a Vanwall:
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connaught_Engineering#/media/File:Beaulieu_National_Motor_Museum_Connaught_Type_B_(1955)_15-10-2011_13-10-02.png
> . . .although both types appeared in a variety of bodywork
> configurations. Try Google image searches for connaught a and connaught b.
> --
> Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
> An object is a monotonous process.
> - Nelson Goodman

I have tried Google for Vanwall and Connaught but no cars yet match.

On 2/21/2022 6:05 PM, bra wrote:
> On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 2:54:51 PM UTC-8, Mark Jackson wrote:
>> On 2/21/2022 5:37 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
>>> On 2/21/2022 4:42 PM, bra wrote:
>>>> This single-seater was photographed in New Zealand during a British
>>>> 'tour approx 1958/59. I had thought it was a Vanwall, but could it
>>>> be another marque or even another formula such F2? This is the
>>>> Facebook link to the photo:
>>>> https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10227248399857296&set=gm.2547582875374556
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any help.,
>>>
>>> "Sorry, this content isn't available right now" - but almost certainly a
>>> Connaught.
>>>
>>> There's nothing about racing in New Zealand in /Vanwall/ (Jenkinson &
>>> Posthumus) so no.
>>>
>>> Ron Duncan raced an old Connaught A (F2) around New Zealand in at least
>>> 1958 and 1959 - he was DNS in the NZ GP both years. And in 1958 Roy
>>> Salvadori was campaigning a Connaught B (F1), finishing 5th in the NZ
>>> GP. That's the type most likely to be mistaken for a Vanwall:
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connaught_Engineering#/media/File:Beaulieu_National_Motor_Museum_Connaught_Type_B_(1955)_15-10-2011_13-10-02.png
>> . . .although both types appeared in a variety of bodywork
>> configurations. Try Google image searches for connaught a and connaught b.
>> --
>> Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
>> An object is a monotonous process.
>> - Nelson Goodman
>
> I have tried Google for Vanwall and Connaught but no cars yet match.

Do you have a working link to the image you asked about originally?

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
An object is a monotonous process.
- Nelson Goodman

On 22/02/2022 10:42 am, bra wrote:
> This single-seater was photographed in New Zealand during a British 'tour approx 1958/59. I had thought it was a Vanwall, but could it be another marque or even another formula such F2? This is the Facebook link to the photo: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10227248399857296&set=gm.2547582875374556 Thanks for any help.,

"Sorry, this content isn't available at this time"

--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

On 21/02/2022 21:42, bra wrote:

> This single-seater was photographed in New Zealand during a British 'tour approx 1958/59. I had thought it was a Vanwall, but could it be another marque or even another formula such F2? This is the Facebook link to the photo: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10227248399857296&set=gm.2547582875374556 Thanks for any help.,

<https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/other1958.html>
<https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/other1959.html>

<https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/otherraces.html>

<https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/nzmr.html>

On 2/21/2022 3:11 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
> On 2/21/2022 6:05 PM, bra wrote:
>> On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 2:54:51 PM UTC-8, Mark Jackson wrote:
>>> On 2/21/2022 5:37 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>> On 2/21/2022 4:42 PM, bra wrote:
>>>>> This single-seater was photographed in New Zealand during a British
>>>>> 'tour approx 1958/59.  I had thought it was a Vanwall, but could it
>>>>> be another marque or even another formula such F2?  This is the
>>>>> Facebook link to the photo:
>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10227248399857296&set=gm.2547582875374556
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for any help.,
>>>>
>>>> "Sorry, this content isn't available right now" - but almost
>>>> certainly a
>>>> Connaught.
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing about racing in New Zealand in /Vanwall/ (Jenkinson &
>>>> Posthumus) so no.
>>>>
>>>> Ron Duncan raced an old Connaught A (F2) around New Zealand in at least
>>>> 1958 and 1959 - he was DNS in the NZ GP both years.  And in 1958 Roy
>>>> Salvadori was campaigning a Connaught B (F1), finishing 5th in the NZ
>>>> GP.  That's the type most likely to be mistaken for a Vanwall:
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connaught_Engineering#/media/File:Beaulieu_National_Motor_Museum_Connaught_Type_B_(1955)_15-10-2011_13-10-02.png
>>>>
>>> . . .although both types appeared in a variety of bodywork
>>> configurations. Try Google image searches for connaught a and
>>> connaught b.
>>> --
>>> Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
>>> An object is a monotonous process.
>>> - Nelson Goodman
>>
>> I have tried Google for Vanwall and Connaught but no cars yet match.
>
> Do you have a working link to the image you asked about originally?
>

Yes, I also would appreciate seeing the picture of the
original question.

By the way, I am regularly impressed with the
number, and variety, of pictures one can view on
Google Images
and especially when one tries a variety of search terms,
such as:
race cars in New Zealand in 1958
1958 Australian Gold Star Championship

Look at the great variety here:
https://themotorhood.com/themotorhood/2014/11/27/racing-through-the-historic-tracks-in-new-zealand
Ardmore
The start of the Selwyn Moleswoth Trophy at Ohakea, 1956

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:08:53 AM UTC-8, Brian Lawrence wrote:
> On 21/02/2022 21:42, bra wrote:
>
> > This single-seater was photographed in New Zealand during a British 'tour approx 1958/59. I had thought it was a Vanwall, but could it be another marque or even another formula such F2? This is the Facebook link to the photo: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10227248399857296&set=gm.2547582875374556 Thanks for any help.,
> <https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/other1958.html>
> <https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/other1959.html>
>
> <https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/otherraces.html>
>
> <https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/nzmr.html>

My thanks to Brian, as always. However, photos are hard to find. With the bonnet and wheels off, it is even harder to identify. I had hoped it was a Connaught, but alas that was quite oddly distinctive and different.

On 23/02/2022 1:08 am, Brian Lawrence wrote:
> On 21/02/2022 21:42, bra wrote:
>
>> This single-seater was photographed in New Zealand during a British 'tour approx 1958/59.  I had
>> thought it was a Vanwall, but could it be another marque or even another formula such F2?  This
>> is the Facebook link to the photo:
>> https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10227248399857296&set=gm.2547582875374556  Thanks for any
>> help.,
>
>
>   <https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/other1958.html>

I see that my old mate Ron Roycroft
<https://natlib.govt.nz/records/22513741>
<https://motorsport.org.nz/about/awards/wall-of-fame/the-lateron-roycroft/>
competed in every race in '58.

As a teenager I spent many a happy afternoon helping him work on his collection of cars. Loved his
Bugatti and helped him put the original engine back in and get it running again. He'd removed it
decades earlier and put a Jaguar engine in for increased reliability and more power.
<https://natlib.govt.nz/records/22872304>

It was an exercise in futility trying to communicate anything complex with him though. Despite him
having two huge hearing aids he could barely hear a thing. The result of decades of racing cars
with open exhausts. Heh! He had a light set up to flash when the phone rang but then could hardly
hold a conversation once he picked it up despite it being a 'special' amplified phone!

Interesting. I see that the Bugatti engine has been taken back out and the Jag XK120 drive train
put back in.
<https://www.nzherald.co.nz/stratford-press/news/vintage-bugatti-with-a-jaguar-engine-and-gearbox-is-one-of-cars-featured/OBEQLD2H43NXSVGDUYID6FPZZM/>

According to that story the Bug mill had been put back in the late 1960s. (I spent time with Ron in
the mid-late 70s.) Then again a lot of info about Ron and his cars these days comes from his son -
who was estranged during the period that I knew Ron best.

However he turned up and showed massive interest once Ron died as he inherited millions of dollars
worth of cars. He now virtually lives off his father's fame (and money - he sold a lot of the ~120
cars that Ron and I worked on.) Ron owned at least one of every model Chevrolet produced from 1914
to 1940 as well as a matched pair of 1927 Rolls Royce open tourers etc. etc. etc. He also has an
extensive motorcycle collection with one of each Ariel square fours (500cc, 600cc and 1,000cc) as
well as multiple JAP-engined machines, Indians, HDs.

Those were the days. A stand-out memory was Ron going to a drag meet at Meremere because he heard
that a Corvette Stingray was going to be there on tour from the US and he always wanted this
particular model. He got a pit pass, went up to the owner and bought it on the spot! He de-tuned it
quite a bit, mainly choking it by replacing the huge twin 4-throat Holleys on the 427 engine (it
had been swapped in for the 327 that it came standard with) with a single smaller 4-throat. I got
to drive it - just a short distance but still a cherished memory.

>   <https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/other1959.html>
>
>   <https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/otherraces.html>
>
>   <https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/nzmr.html>

--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

On 22/02/2022 18:51, bra wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:08:53 AM UTC-8, Brian Lawrence wrote:
>> On 21/02/2022 21:42, bra wrote:
>>
>>> This single-seater was photographed in New Zealand during a British 'tour approx 1958/59. I had thought it was a Vanwall, but could it be another marque or even another formula such F2? This is the Facebook link to the photo: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10227248399857296&set=gm.2547582875374556 Thanks for any help.,
>> <https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/other1958.html>
>> <https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/other1959.html>
>>
>> <https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/otherraces.html>
>>
>> <https://www.sergent.com.au/motor/nzmr.html>
>
>
> My thanks to Brian, as always. However, photos are hard to find. With the bonnet and wheels off, it is even harder to identify. I had hoped it was a Connaught, but alas that was quite oddly distinctive and different.

Since none of us has seen the photo it's hard to get any clues.
The original online source (not FB) could have something, can
you identify it.

On 2/23/2022 4:53 AM, Brian Lawrence wrote:
> Since none of us has seen the photo it's hard to get any clues.
> The original online source (not FB) could have something, can
> you identify it.

The OP posted this link (subject: "Query Vanwall in NZ" repeat, with
accessibe photo):

http://www.oldstox.com/images/query.jpg

With much of the bodywork removed it's not a great help.

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
An object is a monotonous process.
- Nelson Goodman

On 23/02/2022 14:56, Mark Jackson wrote:

> On 2/23/2022 4:53 AM, Brian Lawrence wrote:
>> Since none of us has seen the photo it's hard to get any clues.
>> The original online source (not FB) could have something, can
>> you identify it.
>
> The OP posted this link (subject: "Query Vanwall in NZ" repeat, with
> accessibe photo):
>
> http://www.oldstox.com/images/query.jpg
>
> With much of the bodywork removed it's not a great help.

Thanks Mark, as you say it doesn't help much. I note that it was
car #2 and also visible are #4 & #20, if only we had car numbers for the
NZ events.

There is book about the Connaughts which appears to have a list of
which chassis was used in which races.

'From Send to Syracuse: The History of Connaught', Graham & Duncan
Rabagliati, 2018.

<https://formulaoneregister.com/product/history-of-connaught/>

Around £50 from most sellers.

Connaughts in New Zealand (from the sergent.com website):

NZ Grand Prix, Ardmore, 11 Jan

Salvadori (B3) & Lewis-Evans (B7 Dart)

Levin International, Levin, 18 Jan 1958

Salvadori & Lewis-Evans

Wigram Trophy, Wigram Airfield, 25 Jan 1958

Lewis-Evans & Salvadori

We can assume that the same two chassis were used in all 3 events,
probably with the same numbers. The cars were then owned by Bernie
Ecclestone.

The 'Dart' had diff. bodywork.

<https://www.slotforum.com/threads/connaught-dart.203253/>

On 27/02/2022 11:20, Brian Lawrence wrote:
> There is book about the Connaughts which appears to have a list of
> which chassis was used in which races.
>
> 'From Send to Syracuse: The History of Connaught', Graham & Duncan
> Rabagliati, 2018.
>
>   <https://formulaoneregister.com/product/history-of-connaught/>
>
> Around £50 from most sellers.
>
>
> Connaughts in New Zealand (from the sergent.com website):
>
> NZ Grand Prix, Ardmore, 11 Jan
>
> Salvadori (B3) & Lewis-Evans (B7 Dart)
>
> Levin International, Levin, 18 Jan 1958
>
> Salvadori & Lewis-Evans
>
> Wigram Trophy, Wigram Airfield, 25 Jan 1958
>
> Lewis-Evans & Salvadori
>
> We can assume that the same two chassis were used in all 3 events,
> probably with the same numbers. The cars were then owned by Bernie
> Ecclestone.
>
> The 'Dart' had diff. bodywork.
>
>    <https://www.slotforum.com/threads/connaught-dart.203253/>

There is a photo on this webpage:

http://www.pilotos-muertos.com/2009/Lewis-EvansStuart.html

That has the caption, 'Stuart Lewis-Evans with the 'toothpaste tube'
B-series at Ardmore in 1958.' His car carries no.3, suggesting that
the one with no.2 was Salvadori's. There is another car behind #3
which might be #2, the man without overalls may be Salvadori?.

On 2/28/2022 4:05 AM, Brian Lawrence wrote:
> On 27/02/2022 11:20, Brian Lawrence wrote:
>> There is book about the Connaughts which appears to have a list of
>> which chassis was used in which races.
>>
>> 'From Send to Syracuse: The History of Connaught', Graham & Duncan
>> Rabagliati, 2018.
>>
>>    <https://formulaoneregister.com/product/history-of-connaught/>
>>
>> Around £50 from most sellers.

Thanks! I was unaware of this book and have ordered a copy from a US
seller.

>> Connaughts in New Zealand (from the sergent.com website):
>>
>> NZ Grand Prix, Ardmore, 11 Jan
>>
>> Salvadori (B3) & Lewis-Evans (B7 Dart)

This looks like an error - multiple sources indicate B3 was rebuilt with
the "dart" body; I haven't found any source that says that happened to
B7. See below.

> There is a photo on this webpage:
>
>     http://www.pilotos-muertos.com/2009/Lewis-EvansStuart.html
>
> That has the caption, 'Stuart Lewis-Evans with the 'toothpaste tube'
> B-series at Ardmore in 1958.' His car carries no.3, suggesting that
> the one with no.2 was Salvadori's. There is another car behind #3
> which might be #2, the man without overalls may be Salvadori?.

Nice photos. The paragraph below the Ardmore and Monaco pictures refers
to the dart-bodied car at Ardmore as B3.

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
An object is a monotonous process.
- Nelson Goodman

On 28/02/2022 17:28, Mark Jackson wrote:
> On 2/28/2022 4:05 AM, Brian Lawrence wrote:
>> On 27/02/2022 11:20, Brian Lawrence wrote:
>>> There is book about the Connaughts which appears to have a list of
>>> which chassis was used in which races.
>>>
>>> 'From Send to Syracuse: The History of Connaught', Graham & Duncan
>>> Rabagliati, 2018.
>>>
>>>    <https://formulaoneregister.com/product/history-of-connaught/>
>>>
>>> Around £50 from most sellers.
>
> Thanks!  I was unaware of this book and have ordered a copy from a US
> seller.
>
>>> Connaughts in New Zealand (from the sergent.com website):
>>>
>>> NZ Grand Prix, Ardmore, 11 Jan
>>>
>>> Salvadori (B3) & Lewis-Evans (B7 Dart)
>
> This looks like an error - multiple sources indicate B3 was rebuilt with
> the "dart" body; I haven't found any source that says that happened to
> B7.  See below.

Yes there are contradictions, found this in a forum from 15+ years ago:

"B7

1956 works (Leston, possibly others). Sold to Scotti but returned to works
1957 works (Scott-Brown, Bueb)
Sold at auction to Ecclestone, and raced 1958 by Salvadori, Scott-Brown,
Fairman
Through trade to Peter Brewer 1965-66
Alan McKechnie 1967-72 (raced by Keith Knight, Tony Hutchings, Ray Potter)
1973 Tony Mitchell (raced by Potter)
Subsequently owned by the late Paul Morgan of Ilmor fame and on
long-term display in Donington Collection

Elsewhere it says that Scotti's car was B6.

>> There is a photo on this webpage:
>>
>>      http://www.pilotos-muertos.com/2009/Lewis-EvansStuart.html
>>
>> That has the caption, 'Stuart Lewis-Evans with the 'toothpaste tube'
>> B-series at Ardmore in 1958.' His car carries no.3, suggesting that
>> the one with no.2 was Salvadori's. There is another car behind #3
>> which might be #2, the man without overalls may be Salvadori?.
>
> Nice photos.  The paragraph below the Ardmore and Monaco pictures refers
> to the dart-bodied car at Ardmore as B3.
>

On 28/02/2022 18:03, Brian Lawrence wrote:

>>>> Salvadori (B3) & Lewis-Evans (B7 Dart)
>>
>> This looks like an error - multiple sources indicate B3 was rebuilt
>> with the "dart" body; I haven't found any source that says that
>> happened to B7.  See below.
>
> Yes there are contradictions, found this in a forum from 15+ years ago:
>
> "B7
>
> 1956 works (Leston, possibly others). Sold to Scotti but returned to works
> 1957 works (Scott-Brown, Bueb)
> Sold at auction to Ecclestone, and raced 1958 by Salvadori, Scott-Brown,
> Fairman
> Through trade to Peter Brewer 1965-66
> Alan McKechnie 1967-72 (raced by Keith Knight, Tony Hutchings, Ray Potter)
> 1973 Tony Mitchell (raced by Potter)
> Subsequently owned by the late Paul Morgan of Ilmor fame and on
> long-term display in Donington Collection
>
> Elsewhere it says that Scotti's car was B6.

<https://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88557>

On 2/28/2022 1:03 PM, Brian Lawrence wrote:
> On 28/02/2022 17:28, Mark Jackson wrote:
>> On 2/28/2022 4:05 AM, Brian Lawrence wrote:
>>> On 27/02/2022 11:20, Brian Lawrence wrote:
>>>> There is book about the Connaughts which appears to have a list of
>>>> which chassis was used in which races.
>>>>
>>>> 'From Send to Syracuse: The History of Connaught', Graham & Duncan
>>>> Rabagliati, 2018.
>>>>
>>>>    <https://formulaoneregister.com/product/history-of-connaught/>
>>>>
>>>> Around £50 from most sellers.
>>
>> Thanks!  I was unaware of this book and have ordered a copy from a US
>> seller.

Just arrived. Looks great, although it will be some days before I can
spend time with it properly.

>>
>>>> Connaughts in New Zealand (from the sergent.com website):
>>>>
>>>> NZ Grand Prix, Ardmore, 11 Jan
>>>>
>>>> Salvadori (B3) & Lewis-Evans (B7 Dart)
>>
>> This looks like an error - multiple sources indicate B3 was rebuilt
>> with the "dart" body; I haven't found any source that says that
>> happened to B7.  See below.

The Rabagliatis' book is clear that only B3 ever carried the dart body.

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
A vital part of my job is to render
soporific subjects into gripping prose.
- Idrees Kahloon