F1TV has a short day 1 summary video up. Mostly long rage, short duration shots but still some interesting looks.

One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some kind of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate attached to the shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and bends over top half of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of the measuring package? (I know my description is probably less than useful. Maybe there is a still image somewhere...)

I also liked the Alpha Romeo camo paint job. I'm not sure that is very useful these days with all the high def equipment but it looked cool.

FWIW
DLM

On 2/23/2022 4:39 PM, D Munz wrote:
> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some kind
> of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate attached to the
> shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and bends over top half
> of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of
> the measuring package? (I know my description is probably less than
> useful. Maybe there is a still image somewhere...)

Pictures here:
https://www.planetf1.com/features/f1-barcelona-track-pictures/

Those are apparently the "front wheel scoops" described in the technical
regulations. Since "rear wheel scoops" are also described there, but I
don't see any being used in the photos, both are probably optional.

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
An object is a monotonous process.
- Nelson Goodman

On 2022-02-23 1:39 p.m., D Munz wrote:
> F1TV has a short day 1 summary video up. Mostly long rage, short
> duration shots but still some interesting looks.
>
> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some kind
> of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate attached to the
> shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and bends over top half
> of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of
> the measuring package? (I know my description is probably less than
> useful. Maybe there is a still image somewhere...)
>
> I also liked the Alpha Romeo camo paint job. I'm not sure that is
> very useful these days with all the high def equipment but it looked
> cool.
>

As far as I can remember (AFAICR), the front wheel fairings are a
mandated part of the new rules.

WHY they did it, I don't really know. If I were to hazard a guess, it
was to clean up some part of the wake of the cars so that cars behind
would lose less downforce.

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 2:55:39 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

> AFAICR

FOYPOSNWTFLTYCSFOAD

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 2:55:39 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

> As far as I can remember (AFAICR)

Are you high?
Or just an idiot?

On 2022-02-23 1:55 p.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
> On 2/23/2022 4:39 PM, D Munz wrote:
>> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some kind
>> of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate attached to the
>> shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and bends over top half
>> of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of
>> the measuring package? (I know my description is probably less than
>> useful. Maybe there is a still image somewhere...)
>
> Pictures here:
> https://www.planetf1.com/features/f1-barcelona-track-pictures/
>
> Those are apparently the "front wheel scoops" described in the technical
> regulations.  Since "rear wheel scoops" are also described there, but I
> don't see any being used in the photos, both are probably optional.
>

Nope.

The front and rear brake DUCTS aren't up there.

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 4:21:49 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

> Nope.

fuck you

On 2/23/2022 6:21 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-02-23 1:55 p.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>> On 2/23/2022 4:39 PM, D Munz wrote:
>>> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some kind
>>> of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate attached to the
>>> shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and bends over top half
>>> of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of
>>> the measuring package? (I know my description is probably less than
>>> useful. Maybe there is a still image somewhere...)
>>
>> Pictures here:
>> https://www.planetf1.com/features/f1-barcelona-track-pictures/
>>
>> Those are apparently the "front wheel scoops" described in the
>> technical regulations.  Since "rear wheel scoops" are also described
>> there, but I don't see any being used in the photos, both are probably
>> optional.
>>
>
> Nope.
>
> The front and rear brake DUCTS aren't up there.

I refer to the SCOOPS described in 3.13.3 of the technical regulations,
which however are complex enough that I might be wrong. Which article
number do *you* believe describs the structures in question?

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
An object is a monotonous process.
- Nelson Goodman

On 2022-02-23 6:55 p.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
> On 2/23/2022 6:21 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2022-02-23 1:55 p.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>> On 2/23/2022 4:39 PM, D Munz wrote:
>>>> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some kind
>>>> of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate attached to the
>>>> shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and bends over top half
>>>> of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of
>>>> the measuring package? (I know my description is probably less than
>>>> useful. Maybe there is a still image somewhere...)
>>>
>>> Pictures here:
>>> https://www.planetf1.com/features/f1-barcelona-track-pictures/
>>>
>>> Those are apparently the "front wheel scoops" described in the
>>> technical regulations.  Since "rear wheel scoops" are also described
>>> there, but I don't see any being used in the photos, both are
>>> probably optional.
>>>
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>> The front and rear brake DUCTS aren't up there.
>
> I refer to the SCOOPS described in 3.13.3 of the technical regulations,
> which however are complex enough that I might be wrong.  Which article
> number do *you* believe describs the structures in question?
>
The scoops AREN'T described in 3.13.3. They are constrained by 3.13.3.
And if you look at the definition of the legality box into which both
must fit, it is clear that the scoops are the scoops for the brake ducts
and not the fairing that goes over the front wheels.
'34 Front Wheel Scoop Reference Volume (RV-FWH-SCO)
RV-FWH-SCO is composed of the following elements
34.1 On a plane through Yw= -6, a circle of radius 220.3mm centred at
[0, 0] and extruded along Yw to Yw=150 retaining only the material
between Zw= 200 and Zw = -100.
34.2 A plane through the following three points:
a. [Xw = 0, 150, 20], [Xw = 50, 150, 20], [Xw = 0, 0, -100]
34.3 Once the plane in 34.2 is defined it must be used to trim the
volume in 34.1 with ALL material below the plane discarded.
34.4 A plane through the following three points:
a. [Xw = 0, 150, 20], [Xw = 100, 150, 200], [Xw = 200, 0, -100]
34.5 Once the plane in 34.4 is defined it must be used to trim the
volume in 34.3 with ALL material inboard of the plane discarded.
The fully defined volume in §34.5 is RV-FWH-SCO.'
To help you, the terms "Xw", "Yw", and "Zw" refer to a coordinate system
for the wheel rather than the one defined for the whole car:

'2.11.3 A Cartesian (Xw, Yw, Zw) coordinate system will be used for each
wheel, defined in the following way:
a. The Xw axis lies on the inboard plane of the wheel rim, passes
through its rotational axis and points in the rearward longitudinal
direction. Xw=0mm is defined to be on the wheel rotational axis. The Xw
axis is parallel to the car centre plane and to the reference plane,
with the wheel in the straight-ahead position and the car at its
legality ride height, as defined in Article 10.1.4.
b. The Yw axis is normal to the inboard plane of the wheel rim and
points towards the car centre plane. Yw=0mm is defined to be on the
inboard plane of the wheel rim. Referring to this coordinate, the terms
“inboard” or “outboard” respectively refer to closer to or further away
from the car centre plane.
c. The Zw axis is normal to both the Xw and Yw axes and points upwards.
Zw=0 is defined to be on the wheel rotational axis.
d. Once the wheel axis system is defined as above, then it maintains a
fixed orientation relative to the suspension upright at all other
suspension articulation points.'
It's tough sledding, but that defines a volume immediately inboard of
each wheel/tire and definitely NOT above it. Zw from -100 to 200
constrains the vertical dimensions to a number below the top of the tire
which would be Zw = 360.

On 24/02/2022 7:39 am, D Munz wrote:
> F1TV has a short day 1 summary video up. Mostly long rage, short duration shots but still some interesting looks.
>
> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some kind of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate attached to the shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and bends over top half of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of the measuring package? (I know my description is probably less than useful. Maybe there is a still image somewhere...)
>
> I also liked the Alpha Romeo camo paint job. I'm not sure that is very useful these days with all the high def equipment but it looked cool.
>
> FWIW
> DLM

I don't know what the technical regulations call them but they are
generally referred to as over wheel winglets or wheel wake control
devices. They clean up the airflow downstream of the front wheels.

D Munz wrote:

> F1TV has a short day 1 summary video up. Mostly long rage, short
> duration shots but still some interesting looks.
>
> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some kind
> of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate attached to the
> shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and bends over top half
> of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of
> the measuring package? (I know my description is probably less than
> useful. Maybe there is a still image somewhere...)
>

"The fairing is to try to connect the tyre squirt to the low pressure
behind the front tyre as it rotates away from the track surface."

They are also been described as "flow deflectors" (accurately) or even
"mudguards" (for what they look like not what they do).
I expect they will make pitstops slightly less smooth. They also add to
the problem of vision created by the larger wheels.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2022-02-23 6:55 p.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>> On 2/23/2022 6:21 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2022-02-23 1:55 p.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>> On 2/23/2022 4:39 PM, D Munz wrote:
>>>>> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some kind
>>>>> of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate attached to the
>>>>> shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and bends over top half
>>>>> of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of
>>>>> the measuring package? (I know my description is probably less than
>>>>> useful. Maybe there is a still image somewhere...)
>>>>
>>>> Pictures here:
>>>> https://www.planetf1.com/features/f1-barcelona-track-pictures/
>>>>
>>>> Those are apparently the "front wheel scoops" described in the
>>>> technical regulations.  Since "rear wheel scoops" are also described
>>>> there, but I don't see any being used in the photos, both are
>>>> probably optional.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> The front and rear brake DUCTS aren't up there.
>>
>> I refer to the SCOOPS described in 3.13.3 of the technical regulations,
>> which however are complex enough that I might be wrong.  Which article
>> number do *you* believe describs the structures in question?
>>
>
> The scoops AREN'T described in 3.13.3. They are constrained by 3.13.3.
>
> And if you look at the definition of the legality box into which both
> must fit, it is clear that the scoops are the scoops for the brake ducts
> and not the fairing that goes over the front wheels.
>
> '34 Front Wheel Scoop Reference Volume (RV-FWH-SCO)
>
> RV-FWH-SCO is composed of the following elements
>
> 34.1 On a plane through Yw= -6, a circle of radius 220.3mm centred at
> [0, 0] and extruded along Yw to Yw=150 retaining only the material
> between Zw= 200 and Zw = -100.
>
> 34.2 A plane through the following three points:
> a. [Xw = 0, 150, 20], [Xw = 50, 150, 20], [Xw = 0, 0, -100]
>
> 34.3 Once the plane in 34.2 is defined it must be used to trim the
> volume in 34.1 with ALL material below the plane discarded.
>
> 34.4 A plane through the following three points:
> a. [Xw = 0, 150, 20], [Xw = 100, 150, 200], [Xw = 200, 0, -100]
>
> 34.5 Once the plane in 34.4 is defined it must be used to trim the
> volume in 34.3 with ALL material inboard of the plane discarded.
> The fully defined volume in §34.5 is RV-FWH-SCO.'
>
> To help you, the terms "Xw", "Yw", and "Zw" refer to a coordinate system
> for the wheel rather than the one defined for the whole car:
>
>
> '2.11.3 A Cartesian (Xw, Yw, Zw) coordinate system will be used for each
> wheel, defined in the following way:
>
> a. The Xw axis lies on the inboard plane of the wheel rim, passes
> through its rotational axis and points in the rearward longitudinal
> direction. Xw=0mm is defined to be on the wheel rotational axis. The Xw
> axis is parallel to the car centre plane and to the reference plane,
> with the wheel in the straight-ahead position and the car at its
> legality ride height, as defined in Article 10.1.4.
>
> b. The Yw axis is normal to the inboard plane of the wheel rim and
> points towards the car centre plane. Yw=0mm is defined to be on the
> inboard plane of the wheel rim. Referring to this coordinate, the terms
> “inboard” or “outboard” respectively refer to closer to or further away
> from the car centre plane.
>
> c. The Zw axis is normal to both the Xw and Yw axes and points upwards.
> Zw=0 is defined to be on the wheel rotational axis.
> d. Once the wheel axis system is defined as above, then it maintains a
> fixed orientation relative to the suspension upright at all other
> suspension articulation points.'
>
> It's tough sledding, but that defines a volume immediately inboard of
> each wheel/tire and definitely NOT above it. Zw from -100 to 200
> constrains the vertical dimensions to a number below the top of the tire
> which would be Zw = 360.
>

There are times when I hanker for the “suck it and see” days of F1 in the
1960s :-)

--
Sir Tim

On 2022-02-23 11:54 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-02-23 6:55 p.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>> On 2/23/2022 6:21 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2022-02-23 1:55 p.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>>> On 2/23/2022 4:39 PM, D Munz wrote:
>>>>>> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some kind
>>>>>> of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate attached to the
>>>>>> shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and bends over top half
>>>>>> of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of
>>>>>> the measuring package? (I know my description is probably less than
>>>>>> useful. Maybe there is a still image somewhere...)
>>>>>
>>>>> Pictures here:
>>>>> https://www.planetf1.com/features/f1-barcelona-track-pictures/
>>>>>
>>>>> Those are apparently the "front wheel scoops" described in the
>>>>> technical regulations.  Since "rear wheel scoops" are also described
>>>>> there, but I don't see any being used in the photos, both are
>>>>> probably optional.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>> The front and rear brake DUCTS aren't up there.
>>>
>>> I refer to the SCOOPS described in 3.13.3 of the technical regulations,
>>> which however are complex enough that I might be wrong.  Which article
>>> number do *you* believe describs the structures in question?
>>>
>>
>> The scoops AREN'T described in 3.13.3. They are constrained by 3.13.3.
>>
>> And if you look at the definition of the legality box into which both
>> must fit, it is clear that the scoops are the scoops for the brake ducts
>> and not the fairing that goes over the front wheels.
>>
>> '34 Front Wheel Scoop Reference Volume (RV-FWH-SCO)
>>
>> RV-FWH-SCO is composed of the following elements
>>
>> 34.1 On a plane through Yw= -6, a circle of radius 220.3mm centred at
>> [0, 0] and extruded along Yw to Yw=150 retaining only the material
>> between Zw= 200 and Zw = -100.
>>
>> 34.2 A plane through the following three points:
>> a. [Xw = 0, 150, 20], [Xw = 50, 150, 20], [Xw = 0, 0, -100]
>>
>> 34.3 Once the plane in 34.2 is defined it must be used to trim the
>> volume in 34.1 with ALL material below the plane discarded.
>>
>> 34.4 A plane through the following three points:
>> a. [Xw = 0, 150, 20], [Xw = 100, 150, 200], [Xw = 200, 0, -100]
>>
>> 34.5 Once the plane in 34.4 is defined it must be used to trim the
>> volume in 34.3 with ALL material inboard of the plane discarded.
>> The fully defined volume in §34.5 is RV-FWH-SCO.'
>>
>> To help you, the terms "Xw", "Yw", and "Zw" refer to a coordinate system
>> for the wheel rather than the one defined for the whole car:
>>
>>
>> '2.11.3 A Cartesian (Xw, Yw, Zw) coordinate system will be used for each
>> wheel, defined in the following way:
>>
>> a. The Xw axis lies on the inboard plane of the wheel rim, passes
>> through its rotational axis and points in the rearward longitudinal
>> direction. Xw=0mm is defined to be on the wheel rotational axis. The Xw
>> axis is parallel to the car centre plane and to the reference plane,
>> with the wheel in the straight-ahead position and the car at its
>> legality ride height, as defined in Article 10.1.4.
>>
>> b. The Yw axis is normal to the inboard plane of the wheel rim and
>> points towards the car centre plane. Yw=0mm is defined to be on the
>> inboard plane of the wheel rim. Referring to this coordinate, the terms
>> “inboard” or “outboard” respectively refer to closer to or further away
>> from the car centre plane.
>>
>> c. The Zw axis is normal to both the Xw and Yw axes and points upwards.
>> Zw=0 is defined to be on the wheel rotational axis.
>> d. Once the wheel axis system is defined as above, then it maintains a
>> fixed orientation relative to the suspension upright at all other
>> suspension articulation points.'
>>
>> It's tough sledding, but that defines a volume immediately inboard of
>> each wheel/tire and definitely NOT above it. Zw from -100 to 200
>> constrains the vertical dimensions to a number below the top of the tire
>> which would be Zw = 360.
>>
>
> There are times when I hanker for the “suck it and see” days of F1 in the
> 1960s :-)
>

Hey... ...so do I!

But the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

:-)

On 2/23/2022 11:49 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-02-23 6:55 p.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>> On 2/23/2022 6:21 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2022-02-23 1:55 p.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>> On 2/23/2022 4:39 PM, D Munz wrote:
>>>>> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some kind
>>>>> of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate attached to the
>>>>> shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and bends over top half
>>>>> of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of
>>>>> the measuring package? (I know my description is probably less than
>>>>> useful. Maybe there is a still image somewhere...)
>>>>
>>>> Pictures here:
>>>> https://www.planetf1.com/features/f1-barcelona-track-pictures/
>>>>
>>>> Those are apparently the "front wheel scoops" described in the
>>>> technical regulations.  Since "rear wheel scoops" are also described
>>>> there, but I don't see any being used in the photos, both are
>>>> probably optional.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> The front and rear brake DUCTS aren't up there.
>>
>> I refer to the SCOOPS described in 3.13.3 of the technical
>> regulations, which however are complex enough that I might be wrong.
>> Which article number do *you* believe describs the structures in
>> question?
>>
>
> The scoops AREN'T described in 3.13.3. They are constrained by 3.13.3.
>
> And if you look at the definition of the legality box into which both
> must fit, it is clear that the scoops are the scoops for the brake ducts
> and not the fairing that goes over the front wheels.

I stand corrected.

At https://www.f1technical.net/news/23344 there is a comprehensive
discussion of all of the legality boxes, with illustrations. It's from
mid-September, hence not current, but does clarify what the regulations
spell out mathematically. There are some exceptions, which include the
legality boxes for the front and rear brake drum deflectors (RS-FWH-DEFL
and RS-RWH-DEFL); these are defined by CAD models - which aren't public
unless one has access to the FIA CAD portal. Nonetheless comments near
the end of the article make clear that the front deflectors include the
"flaps" inquired about by the OP.

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
An object is a monotonous process.
- Nelson Goodman

On 2022-02-23 11:29 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> D Munz wrote:
>
>> F1TV has a short day 1 summary video up. Mostly long rage, short
>> duration shots but still some interesting looks.
>>
>> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some kind
>> of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate attached to the
>> shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and bends over top half
>> of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of
>> the measuring package? (I know my description is probably less than
>> useful. Maybe there is a still image somewhere...)
>>
>
> "The fairing is to try to connect the tyre squirt to the low pressure
> behind the front tyre as it rotates away from the track surface."
>
> They are also been described as "flow deflectors" (accurately) or even
> "mudguards" (for what they look like not what they do).
> I expect they will make pitstops slightly less smooth. They also add to
> the problem of vision created by the larger wheels.
>

The tires are not even 10% larger (same widths and less than 10% taller
at 660-->720) and neither they nor the "flow deflectors" are in a
direction that the driver spends much time looking. (The wheels aren't
ever in the driver's view).

Most of the deflector is placed where you wouldn't be able to see anyway
because immediately behind it from the driver's vantage point because
tire and the rear view mirror support struts are already there. There's
not a lot left to make any impact at all to the driver's vision.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBJWLDEexDo>

Notice how little you see of the tires. When the apex of the corner
isn't visible, it is the car's bodywork that obscures it. (Also, it's
interesting to see that Alonso clearly turns his head more for left
turns than he does for right).

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2022-02-23 11:29 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>> D Munz wrote:
>>
>>> F1TV has a short day 1 summary video up. Mostly long rage, short
>>> duration shots but still some interesting looks.
>>>
>>> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some kind
>>> of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate attached to the
>>> shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and bends over top half
>>> of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of
>>> the measuring package? (I know my description is probably less than
>>> useful. Maybe there is a still image somewhere...)
>>>
>>
>> "The fairing is to try to connect the tyre squirt to the low pressure
>> behind the front tyre as it rotates away from the track surface."
>>
>> They are also been described as "flow deflectors" (accurately) or even
>> "mudguards" (for what they look like not what they do).
>> I expect they will make pitstops slightly less smooth. They also add to
>> the problem of vision created by the larger wheels.
>>
>
> The tires are not even 10% larger (same widths and less than 10% taller
> at 660-->720) and neither they nor the "flow deflectors" are in a
> direction that the driver spends much time looking. (The wheels aren't
> ever in the driver's view).
>
> Most of the deflector is placed where you wouldn't be able to see anyway
> because immediately behind it from the driver's vantage point because
> tire and the rear view mirror support struts are already there. There's
> not a lot left to make any impact at all to the driver's vision.
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBJWLDEexDo>
>
> Notice how little you see of the tires. When the apex of the corner
> isn't visible, it is the car's bodywork that obscures it. (Also, it's
> interesting to see that Alonso clearly turns his head more for left
> turns than he does for right).
>
>

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-cushion-visibility-joke/

--
Sir Tim

On 2022-02-24 7:08 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
> On 2/23/2022 11:49 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2022-02-23 6:55 p.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>> On 2/23/2022 6:21 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2022-02-23 1:55 p.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>>> On 2/23/2022 4:39 PM, D Munz wrote:
>>>>>> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some kind
>>>>>> of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate attached to the
>>>>>> shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and bends over top half
>>>>>> of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of
>>>>>> the measuring package? (I know my description is probably less than
>>>>>> useful. Maybe there is a still image somewhere...)
>>>>>
>>>>> Pictures here:
>>>>> https://www.planetf1.com/features/f1-barcelona-track-pictures/
>>>>>
>>>>> Those are apparently the "front wheel scoops" described in the
>>>>> technical regulations.  Since "rear wheel scoops" are also
>>>>> described there, but I don't see any being used in the photos, both
>>>>> are probably optional.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>> The front and rear brake DUCTS aren't up there.
>>>
>>> I refer to the SCOOPS described in 3.13.3 of the technical
>>> regulations, which however are complex enough that I might be wrong.
>>> Which article number do *you* believe describs the structures in
>>> question?
>>>
>>
>> The scoops AREN'T described in 3.13.3. They are constrained by 3.13.3.
>>
>> And if you look at the definition of the legality box into which both
>> must fit, it is clear that the scoops are the scoops for the brake
>> ducts and not the fairing that goes over the front wheels.
>
> I stand corrected.
>
> At https://www.f1technical.net/news/23344 there is a comprehensive
> discussion of all of the legality boxes, with illustrations.  It's from
> mid-September, hence not current, but does clarify what the regulations
> spell out mathematically.  There are some exceptions, which include the
> legality boxes for the front and rear brake drum deflectors (RS-FWH-DEFL
> and RS-RWH-DEFL); these are defined by CAD models - which aren't public
> unless one has access to the FIA CAD portal.  Nonetheless comments near
> the end of the article make clear that the front deflectors include the
> "flaps" inquired about by the OP.
>

Yup. I saw that when I was trying to find an actual illustration that
included names for the various areas.

What's interesting is that for whatever reason the deflector isn't
defined by a legality box, but rather there is a common geometry that
all the teams need to use:

"The Front Drum Deflector must be made to the geometry defined by
RS-FWH-DEFL."

The teams are allow to position it within a limited range of variation
to align it to the local air flow, but that's all.

On 2022-02-24 9:55 a.m., Sir Tim wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-02-23 11:29 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> D Munz wrote:
>>>
>>>> F1TV has a short day 1 summary video up. Mostly long rage, short
>>>> duration shots but still some interesting looks.
>>>>
>>>> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some kind
>>>> of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate attached to the
>>>> shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and bends over top half
>>>> of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of
>>>> the measuring package? (I know my description is probably less than
>>>> useful. Maybe there is a still image somewhere...)
>>>>
>>>
>>> "The fairing is to try to connect the tyre squirt to the low pressure
>>> behind the front tyre as it rotates away from the track surface."
>>>
>>> They are also been described as "flow deflectors" (accurately) or even
>>> "mudguards" (for what they look like not what they do).
>>> I expect they will make pitstops slightly less smooth. They also add to
>>> the problem of vision created by the larger wheels.
>>>
>>
>> The tires are not even 10% larger (same widths and less than 10% taller
>> at 660-->720) and neither they nor the "flow deflectors" are in a
>> direction that the driver spends much time looking. (The wheels aren't
>> ever in the driver's view).
>>
>> Most of the deflector is placed where you wouldn't be able to see anyway
>> because immediately behind it from the driver's vantage point because
>> tire and the rear view mirror support struts are already there. There's
>> not a lot left to make any impact at all to the driver's vision.
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBJWLDEexDo>
>>
>> Notice how little you see of the tires. When the apex of the corner
>> isn't visible, it is the car's bodywork that obscures it. (Also, it's
>> interesting to see that Alonso clearly turns his head more for left
>> turns than he does for right).
>>
>>
>
> https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-cushion-visibility-joke/

And that means he must be referring to the tires, does it?

The picture they show at the beginning of the article is taken from a
height just above the driver's eye height, right?

Note how much the bodywork right in front of him would obscure
Hamilton's helmet if the camera height were dropped by 4-6". Note too,
the foolishness of allowing the struts supporting the rear view mirrors
to be mounted pretty much exactly at the driver's eye height.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBJWLDEexDo>

Notice how little the tires impinge on his vision. Sure, they're there,
but when the vision of the apex becomes obscured, it's the bodywork that
does it.

Notice how if his head were a little lower in the car, it's the bodywork
that would actually start obscuring more of what he needs to see.

Alan wrote:

> On 2022-02-23 11:29 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > D Munz wrote:
> >
> > > F1TV has a short day 1 summary video up. Mostly long rage, short
> > > duration shots but still some interesting looks.
> > >
> > > One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some
> > > kind of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate
> > > attached to the shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and
> > > bends over top half of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in
> > > the rules or is it part of the measuring package? (I know my
> > > description is probably less than useful. Maybe there is a still
> > > image somewhere...)
> > >
> >
> > "The fairing is to try to connect the tyre squirt to the low
> > pressure behind the front tyre as it rotates away from the track
> > surface."
> >
> > They are also been described as "flow deflectors" (accurately) or
> > even "mudguards" (for what they look like not what they do).
> > I expect they will make pitstops slightly less smooth. They also
> > add to the problem of vision created by the larger wheels.
> >
>
> The tires are not even 10% larger

Oh STFU, you stupid contrary little tart. Your credibility is below
zero with me.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Vettel+can%E2%80%99t+see+the+kerbs

--
Bozo bin
Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!

On 2022-02-24 10:13 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2022-02-23 11:29 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> D Munz wrote:
>>>
>>>> F1TV has a short day 1 summary video up. Mostly long rage, short
>>>> duration shots but still some interesting looks.
>>>>
>>>> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some
>>>> kind of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate
>>>> attached to the shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and
>>>> bends over top half of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in
>>>> the rules or is it part of the measuring package? (I know my
>>>> description is probably less than useful. Maybe there is a still
>>>> image somewhere...)
>>>>
>>>
>>> "The fairing is to try to connect the tyre squirt to the low
>>> pressure behind the front tyre as it rotates away from the track
>>> surface."
>>>
>>> They are also been described as "flow deflectors" (accurately) or
>>> even "mudguards" (for what they look like not what they do).
>>> I expect they will make pitstops slightly less smooth. They also
>>> add to the problem of vision created by the larger wheels.
>>>
>>
>> The tires are not even 10% larger
>
> Oh STFU, you stupid contrary little tart. Your credibility is below
> zero with me.

Says the guy who just snipped the actual sources I provided to show how
little difference the tires make.

You agree you did that, right?

Alan wrote:

> On 2022-02-24 10:13 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2022-02-23 11:29 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > D Munz wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > F1TV has a short day 1 summary video up. Mostly long rage,
> > > > > short duration shots but still some interesting looks.
> > > > >
> > > > > One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running
> > > > > some kind of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate
> > > > > attached to the shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up
> > > > > and bends over top half of the wheel. Is this some new aero
> > > > > bit in the rules or is it part of the measuring package? (I
> > > > > know my description is probably less than useful. Maybe there
> > > > > is a still image somewhere...)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > "The fairing is to try to connect the tyre squirt to the low
> > > > pressure behind the front tyre as it rotates away from the track
> > > > surface."
> > > >
> > > > They are also been described as "flow deflectors" (accurately)
> > > > or even "mudguards" (for what they look like not what they do).
> > > > I expect they will make pitstops slightly less smooth. They also
> > > > add to the problem of vision created by the larger wheels.
> > > >
> > >
> > > The tires are not even 10% larger
> >
> > Oh STFU, you stupid contrary little tart. Your credibility is below
> > zero with me.
>
> Says the guy who just snipped the actual sources I provided to show
> how little difference the tires make.
>

You snipped this which dismisses your fuckwittery, no matter how you
misrepresent it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Vettel+can%E2%80%99t+see+the+kerbs

....didn't you?

--
Bozo bin
Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!

On 2022-02-24 10:40 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2022-02-24 10:13 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-02-23 11:29 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>> D Munz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> F1TV has a short day 1 summary video up. Mostly long rage,
>>>>>> short duration shots but still some interesting looks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running
>>>>>> some kind of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate
>>>>>> attached to the shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up
>>>>>> and bends over top half of the wheel. Is this some new aero
>>>>>> bit in the rules or is it part of the measuring package? (I
>>>>>> know my description is probably less than useful. Maybe there
>>>>>> is a still image somewhere...)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "The fairing is to try to connect the tyre squirt to the low
>>>>> pressure behind the front tyre as it rotates away from the track
>>>>> surface."
>>>>>
>>>>> They are also been described as "flow deflectors" (accurately)
>>>>> or even "mudguards" (for what they look like not what they do).
>>>>> I expect they will make pitstops slightly less smooth. They also
>>>>> add to the problem of vision created by the larger wheels.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The tires are not even 10% larger
>>>
>>> Oh STFU, you stupid contrary little tart. Your credibility is below
>>> zero with me.
>>
>> Says the guy who just snipped the actual sources I provided to show
>> how little difference the tires make.
>>
>
> You snipped this...

Snipped what?

I'm sorry, but I don't see anything I've snipped.

I wonder where I got the idea to do that?

:-)

Alan wrote:

> On 2022-02-24 10:40 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2022-02-24 10:13 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > Alan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2022-02-23 11:29 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > D Munz wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > F1TV has a short day 1 summary video up. Mostly long rage,
> > > > > > > short duration shots but still some interesting looks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are
> > > > > > > running some kind of flap over the front wheels. It looks
> > > > > > > like a plate attached to the shaft on the inside of the
> > > > > > > wheel that goes up and bends over top half of the wheel.
> > > > > > > Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of
> > > > > > > the measuring package? (I know my description is probably
> > > > > > > less than useful. Maybe there is a still image
> > > > > > > somewhere...)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The fairing is to try to connect the tyre squirt to the low
> > > > > > pressure behind the front tyre as it rotates away from the
> > > > > > track surface."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They are also been described as "flow deflectors"
> > > > > > (accurately) or even "mudguards" (for what they look like
> > > > > > not what they do). I expect they will make pitstops
> > > > > > slightly less smooth. They also add to the problem of
> > > > > > vision created by the larger wheels.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The tires are not even 10% larger
> > > >
> > > > Oh STFU, you stupid contrary little tart. Your credibility is
> > > > below zero with me.
> > >
> > > Says the guy who just snipped the actual sources I provided to
> > > show how little difference the tires make.
> > >
> >
> > You snipped this...
>
> Snipped what?
>
> I'm sorry, I'm just a stupid lying cunt
>
>
> :-)

Agreed

:-D

--
Bozo bin
Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!

On 2022-02-24 11:30 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2022-02-24 10:40 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-02-24 10:13 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2022-02-23 11:29 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>>>> D Munz wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> F1TV has a short day 1 summary video up. Mostly long rage,
>>>>>>>> short duration shots but still some interesting looks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are
>>>>>>>> running some kind of flap over the front wheels. It looks
>>>>>>>> like a plate attached to the shaft on the inside of the
>>>>>>>> wheel that goes up and bends over top half of the wheel.
>>>>>>>> Is this some new aero bit in the rules or is it part of
>>>>>>>> the measuring package? (I know my description is probably
>>>>>>>> less than useful. Maybe there is a still image
>>>>>>>> somewhere...)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The fairing is to try to connect the tyre squirt to the low
>>>>>>> pressure behind the front tyre as it rotates away from the
>>>>>>> track surface."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They are also been described as "flow deflectors"
>>>>>>> (accurately) or even "mudguards" (for what they look like
>>>>>>> not what they do). I expect they will make pitstops
>>>>>>> slightly less smooth. They also add to the problem of
>>>>>>> vision created by the larger wheels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The tires are not even 10% larger
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh STFU, you stupid contrary little tart. Your credibility is
>>>>> below zero with me.
>>>>
>>>> Says the guy who just snipped the actual sources I provided to
>>>> show how little difference the tires make.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You snipped this...
>>
>> Snipped what?
>>
>> I'm sorry, I'm just a stupid lying cunt
>>
>>
>> :-)
>
> Agreed
>
> :-D

So let's be clear:

You regularly snip my factual rebuttals.

When I do the same thing to you, you whine like a little girl.

Then when you don't like how your own medicine tastes you deliberately
lie about what I had said...

....while regularly calling me a liar.

Do I have that correct?

In what particulars is any of it wrong?

Will you have the balls to answer any of it?

:-)

Alan wrote:

> On 2022-02-23 11:29 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > D Munz wrote:
> >
> > > F1TV has a short day 1 summary video up. Mostly long rage, short
> > > duration shots but still some interesting looks.
> > >
> > > One thing that stood out to me is that the cars are running some
> > > kind of flap over the front wheels. It looks like a plate
> > > attached to the shaft on the inside of the wheel that goes up and
> > > bends over top half of the wheel. Is this some new aero bit in
> > > the rules or is it part of the measuring package? (I know my
> > > description is probably less than useful. Maybe there is a still
> > > image somewhere...)
> > >
> >
> > "The fairing is to try to connect the tyre squirt to the low
> > pressure behind the front tyre as it rotates away from the track
> > surface."
> >
> > They are also been described as "flow deflectors" (accurately) or
> > even "mudguards" (for what they look like not what they do).
> > I expect they will make pitstops slightly less smooth. They also
> > add to the problem of vision created by the larger wheels.
> >
>
> The tires are not even 10% larger (same widths and less than 10%
> taller at 660-->720) and neither they nor the "flow deflectors" are
> in a direction that the driver spends much time looking. (The wheels
> aren't ever in the driver's view).
>
> Most of the deflector is placed where you wouldn't be able to see
> anyway because immediately behind it from the driver's vantage point
> because tire and the rear view mirror support struts are already
> there. There's not a lot left to make any impact at all to the
> driver's vision.
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBJWLDEexDo>
>
> Notice how little you see of the tires. When the apex of the corner
> isn't visible, it is the car's bodywork that obscures it. (Also, it's
> interesting to see that Alonso clearly turns his head more for left
> turns than he does for right).

Stupid boy.

The very first apex is part obscured by the tyre. Add 2" and a flow
deflector and it would be totally obscured.

Hence,
https://www.google.com/search?q=Vettel+can%E2%80%99t+see+the+kerbs

Snip all you like you are still just an argumentative, dishonest,
conceited and intransigent twat.

--
Bozo bin
Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!