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sport / rec.autos.sport.f1 / Re: Russell - what would he know ...

SubjectAuthor
* Russell - what would he know ...geoff
`* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Alan
 `* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Mark
  `* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Alan
   +* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Sir Tim
   |+* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Alan
   ||+* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Bigbird
   |||`* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Alan
   ||| +- Re: Russell - what would he know ...JP
   ||| `* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Bigbird
   |||  +- Re: Russell - what would he know ...texas gate
   |||  `* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Alan
   |||   `- Re: Russell - what would he know ...texas gate
   ||`* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Sir Tim
   || +* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Alan
   || |`- Re: Russell - what would he know ...texas gate
   || `* Re: Russell - what would he know ...build
   ||  `* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Alan
   ||   +- Re: Russell - what would he know ...texas gate
   ||   +- Re: Russell - what would he know ...texas gate
   ||   `- Re: Russell - what would he know ...texas gate
   |`- Re: Russell - what would he know ...CJ
   `* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Mark
    +* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Slang
    |`* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Bigbird
    | +- Re: Russell - what would he know ...Slang
    | `* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Alan
    |  +* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Sir Tim
    |  |+* Re: Russell - what would he know ...build
    |  ||+- Re: Russell - what would he know ...texas gate
    |  ||`- Re: Russell - what would he know ...Geoff May
    |  |`* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Alan
    |  | +- Re: Russell - what would he know ...texas gate
    |  | `- Re: Russell - what would he know ...texas gate
    |  `- Re: Russell - what would he know ...texas gate
    `* Re: Russell - what would he know ...Alan
     `- Re: Russell - what would he know ...texas gate

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Russell - what would he know ...

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 by: geoff - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 01:36 UTC

“Whereas for both of us, there isn’t that because Lewis has been here
for so long; I’m the new kid within the team and I’m not going to go out
there trying to be the leader of the team when I’m going up against the
greatest of all time who’s been here for 10 years. He is like the
captain of the team and that’s how it should be.” - George Russell, Apr
2022

Just being polite I guess.

geoff

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 23:34:46 -0700
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 by: Alan - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 06:34 UTC

On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
> “Whereas for both of us, there isn’t that because Lewis has been here
> for so long; I’m the new kid within the team and I’m not going to go out
> there trying to be the leader of the team when I’m going up against the
> greatest of all time who’s been here for 10 years. He is like the
> captain of the team and that’s how it should be.”  - George Russell, Apr
> 2022
>
> Just being polite I guess.

"Pol"... ...something.

Politic.

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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From: mpco...@gmail.com (Mark)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 08:06:31 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mark - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 08:06 UTC

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
>> ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
>> 2022
>>
>> Just being polite I guess.
>
> "Pol"... ...something.
>
> Politic.

Confirmation...

....bias.

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 10:06:21 -0700
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 by: Alan - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 17:06 UTC

On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>> ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
>>> 2022
>>>
>>> Just being polite I guess.
>>
>> "Pol"... ...something.
>>
>> Politic.
>
> Confirmation...
>
> ...bias.

Really? Why?

The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
second "greatest of all time"?

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From: no_em...@invalid.invalid (Sir Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
Date: 22 Apr 2022 20:53:05 GMT
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 by: Sir Tim - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 20:53 UTC

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>> On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>> ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
>>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
>>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
>>>> 2022
>>>>
>>>> Just being polite I guess.
>>>
>>> "Pol"... ...something.
>>>
>>> Politic.
>>
>> Confirmation...
>>
>> ...bias.
>
> Really? Why?
>
> The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
> second "greatest of all time"?
>

Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and won 8
(sorry 7) world championships.

--
Sir Tim

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 14:24:08 -0700
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 by: Alan - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 21:24 UTC

On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>> ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
>>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
>>>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
>>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
>>>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
>>>>> 2022
>>>>>
>>>>> Just being polite I guess.
>>>>
>>>> "Pol"... ...something.
>>>>
>>>> Politic.
>>>
>>> Confirmation...
>>>
>>> ...bias.
>>
>> Really? Why?
>>
>> The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
>> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
>> second "greatest of all time"?
>>
>
> Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and won 8
> (sorry 7) world championships.

You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
probably have one just as many championships...

....right?

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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From: bigbird....@gmail.com (Bigbird)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 22:01:18 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Bigbird - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 22:01 UTC

Alan wrote:

> On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
> >Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> > > On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
> >>>Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> > > > > On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
> > > > > > ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has
> > > > > > been here for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and
> > > > > > I?m not going to go out there trying to be the leader of
> > > > > > the team when I?m going up against the greatest of all time
> > > > > > who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the captain of the
> > > > > > team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
> > > > > > 2022
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just being polite I guess.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Pol"... ...something.
> > > > >
> > > > > Politic.
> > > >
> > > > Confirmation...
> > > >
> > > > ...bias.
> > >
> > > Really? Why?
> > >
> > > The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as
> > > Hamilton in the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't
> > > that make him the second "greatest of all time"?
> > >
> >
> > Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and
> > won 8 (sorry 7) world championships.
>
> You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
> probably have one just as many championships...
>
> ...right?

Do you even watch the races. You seem to know less than anyone on this
group about what makes a world champion.

You say the dumbest things I have heard anyone on this group say, EVER!

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
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 by: Alan - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 22:06 UTC

On 2022-04-22 3:01 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
>>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>> ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has
>>>>>>> been here for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and
>>>>>>> I?m not going to go out there trying to be the leader of
>>>>>>> the team when I?m going up against the greatest of all time
>>>>>>> who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the captain of the
>>>>>>> team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
>>>>>>> 2022
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just being polite I guess.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Pol"... ...something.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Politic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Confirmation...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...bias.
>>>>
>>>> Really? Why?
>>>>
>>>> The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as
>>>> Hamilton in the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't
>>>> that make him the second "greatest of all time"?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and
>>> won 8 (sorry 7) world championships.
>>
>> You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
>> probably have one just as many championships...
>>
>> ...right?
>
> Do you even watch the races. You seem to know less than anyone on this
> group about what makes a world champion.

Have you ever even driving a car on a road racing circuit?

Russell...

....is...

....clearly...

....as...

....fast...

....as...

....Hamilton.

>
> You say the dumbest things I have heard anyone on this group say, EVER!

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

<40e6343c-c9fe-45e7-bc05-27e47435a4fan@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
From: jpayne...@gmail.com (JP)
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 by: JP - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 22:25 UTC

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 6:06:32 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-04-22 3:01 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
> >>> Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
> >>>>> Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
> >>>>>>> ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has
> >>>>>>> been here for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and
> >>>>>>> I?m not going to go out there trying to be the leader of
> >>>>>>> the team when I?m going up against the greatest of all time
> >>>>>>> who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the captain of the
> >>>>>>> team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
> >>>>>>> 2022
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Just being polite I guess.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Pol"... ...something.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Politic.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Confirmation...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ...bias.
> >>>>
> >>>> Really? Why?
> >>>>
> >>>> The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as
> >>>> Hamilton in the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't
> >>>> that make him the second "greatest of all time"?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and
> >>> won 8 (sorry 7) world championships.
> >>
> >> You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
> >> probably have one just as many championships...
> >>
> >> ...right?
> >
> > Do you even watch the races. You seem to know less than anyone on this
> > group about what makes a world champion.
> Have you ever even driving a car on a road racing circuit?
>
> Russell...
>
> ...is...
>
> ...clearly...
>
> ...as...
>
> ...fast...
>
> ...as...
>
> ...Hamilton.
> >
> > You say the dumbest things I have heard anyone on this group say, EVER!

Please see my post on April 21 in “Toto on the whinge again”

Cheers, John

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

<xn0ngygwhcxm0kh000@news.eternal-september.org>

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From: bigbird....@gmail.com (Bigbird)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:48:35 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Bigbird - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:48 UTC

Alan wrote:

> On 2022-04-22 3:01 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
> >>>Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> > > > > On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
> >>>>>Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
> > > > > > > > ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis
> > > > > > > > has been here for so long; I?m the new kid within the
> > > > > > > > team and I?m not going to go out there trying to be the
> > > > > > > > leader of the team when I?m going up against the
> > > > > > > > greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He
> > > > > > > > is like the captain of the team and that?s how it
> > > > > > > > should be.?? - George Russell, Apr 2022
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Just being polite I guess.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Pol"... ...something.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Politic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Confirmation...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ...bias.
> > > > >
> > > > > Really? Why?
> > > > >
> > > > > The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as
> > > > > Hamilton in the same car. So if Russell is correct, then
> > > > > doesn't that make him the second "greatest of all time"?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons
> > > > and won 8 (sorry 7) world championships.
> > >
> > > You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he
> > > would probably have one just as many championships...
> > >
> > > ...right?
> >
> > Do you even watch the races. You seem to know less than anyone on
> > this group about what makes a world champion.
>
> Have you ever even driving a car on a road racing circuit?
>
> Russell...
>
> ...is...
>
> ...clearly...
>
> ...as...
>
> ...fast...
>
> ...as...
>
> ...Hamilton.
>
> >
> > You say the dumbest things I have heard anyone on this group say,
> > EVER!

There you go again.

It is clearly an infantile, naive opinion; shallow and lacking in any
comprehension.

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
From: texasg...@gmail.com (texas gate)
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 by: texas gate - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 12:35 UTC

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 3:48:37 AM UTC-6, Bigbird wrote:

> There you go again.

Oh you love it.
You are a troll, just like him.

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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From: no_em...@invalid.invalid (Sir Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
Date: 23 Apr 2022 12:47:42 GMT
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 by: Sir Tim - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 12:47 UTC

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>> On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>> ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
>>>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
>>>>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
>>>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
>>>>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
>>>>>> 2022
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just being polite I guess.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Pol"... ...something.
>>>>>
>>>>> Politic.
>>>>
>>>> Confirmation...
>>>>
>>>> ...bias.
>>>
>>> Really? Why?
>>>
>>> The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
>>> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
>>> second "greatest of all time"?
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and won 8
>> (sorry 7) world championships.
>
> You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
> probably have one just as many championships...
>
Quite possibly, but he wasn’t and he hasn’t.

Given that the concept of GOAT is almost entirely subjective, the time to
compare the acknowledged greats of the sport is when their careers are over
(as we must assume Hamilton’s nearly is).

It is entirely possible that Leclerc, Verstappen and/or Russell will join
the pantheon of acknowledged greats but it is much too early to say.

The number of WDCs won is a rather unreliable measure (compare Vettel and
Alonso) but, if one were to use it, Schumacher and Hamilton would be the
two standout drivers. Both had dominant cars for much of their careers,
both won WDCs for two different teams but, whereas Michael usually had
No.1. status and a compliant team mate, Lewis didn’t.

--
Sir Tim

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

<t4141v$lus$2@dont-email.me>

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 07:55:58 -0700
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 by: Alan - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 14:55 UTC

On 2022-04-23 2:48 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2022-04-22 3:01 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
>>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
>>>>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>>>> ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis
>>>>>>>>> has been here for so long; I?m the new kid within the
>>>>>>>>> team and I?m not going to go out there trying to be the
>>>>>>>>> leader of the team when I?m going up against the
>>>>>>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He
>>>>>>>>> is like the captain of the team and that?s how it
>>>>>>>>> should be.?? - George Russell, Apr 2022
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just being polite I guess.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Pol"... ...something.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Politic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Confirmation...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...bias.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Really? Why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as
>>>>>> Hamilton in the same car. So if Russell is correct, then
>>>>>> doesn't that make him the second "greatest of all time"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons
>>>>> and won 8 (sorry 7) world championships.
>>>>
>>>> You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he
>>>> would probably have one just as many championships...
>>>>
>>>> ...right?
>>>
>>> Do you even watch the races. You seem to know less than anyone on
>>> this group about what makes a world champion.
>>
>> Have you ever even driving a car on a road racing circuit?
>>
>> Russell...
>>
>> ...is...
>>
>> ...clearly...
>>
>> ...as...
>>
>> ...fast...
>>
>> ...as...
>>
>> ...Hamilton.
>>
>>>
>>> You say the dumbest things I have heard anyone on this group say,
>>> EVER!
>
> There you go again.
>
> It is clearly an infantile, naive opinion; shallow and lacking in any
> comprehension.
>

It's not an opinion at all.

It's a measurable fact.

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
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 by: texas gate - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:10 UTC

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 8:56:01 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> It's not an opinion at all.
>
> It's a measurable fact.

fuck off troll

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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 by: CJ - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 17:36 UTC

On 22/04/2022 23:53, Sir Tim wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>> ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
>>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
>>>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
>>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
>>>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
>>>>> 2022
>>>>>
>>>>> Just being polite I guess.
>>>>
>>>> "Pol"... ...something.
>>>>
>>>> Politic.
>>>
>>> Confirmation...
>>>
>>> ...bias.
>>
>> Really? Why?
>>
>> The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
>> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
>> second "greatest of all time"?
>>
>
> Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and won 8
> (sorry 7) world championships.
>
+1

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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From: mpco...@gmail.com (Mark)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 18:02:52 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mark - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 18:02 UTC

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>> On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>> ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
>>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
>>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
>>>> 2022
>>>>
>>>> Just being polite I guess.
>>>
>>> "Pol"... ...something.
>>>
>>> Politic.
>>
>> Confirmation...
>>
>> ...bias.
>
> Really? Why?

Because you pick and choose when things need clear evidence and when
they don't. If it suits your theory, your standard of proof is very low
and if it doesn't you suddenly want incontrovertible evidence.

> The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
> second "greatest of all time"?

Russell is pretty much as fast as (or faster than) Hamilton in the same
car right now. That's at the start of the season with a radically
changed car with acknowledged issues.

Now, before you then leap on that observation as proof that he's only
good in a good car, stick with this particular line of reasoning first.

That does *not* prove that Russell is as good as Hamilton. Every dog has
his day. You don't find that out in a few races. I suspect Russell is
very, very good. But he might burn out fast. Rosberg was as fast as
Hamilton at times, and managed to beat him over a season in the same
car. I think he's been clear that he found that year incredibly
difficult and didn't want to repeat it. I have never seen him claim that
he was (overall) Hamilton's better. Do you get the point?

Even if you believe that every one of his championship winning years he
had the best car, to maintain that level of competitiveness over that
long a time is special.

As I have said many, many times, I don't believe in GOAT. I wouldn't
award that title to anyone. I wouldn't compare Hamilton to Schumacher
let alone Fangio. It's meaningless. I *would* put people like Fangio,
Clark, Moss, Stewart, Prost, Senna and Schumacher (amongst others) into
the bracket of "the greats". I am certain Hamilton is in there somewhere
too, but I am loathe to mix the greats who have come before in with the
drivers still active.

Russell may one day earn his place amongst the greats, but matching (or
beating) Hamilton in the current car over a few races cannot somehow
award him the same (or close to the same) consideration by association.

If you can't admit the truth of what I wrote there and thereby admit
that this:

> The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
> second "greatest of all time"?

is wrongheaded (and pretty poor) sophistry, you deserve to be called a
troll.

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 17:16:50 +0200
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 by: Slang - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:16 UTC

Il 23/04/2022 20:02, Mark ha scritto:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

Are you here to contradict the words of Hamilton himself?

"If I hadn't put my ass on MB I would still have only one world title".

He knows it better than all of you put together, i think.

S

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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From: bigbird....@gmail.com (Bigbird)
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Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 16:51:23 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Bigbird - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 16:51 UTC

Slang wrote:

> Il 23/04/2022 20:02, Mark ha scritto:
> >Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
> Are you here to contradict the words of Hamilton himself?
>
> "If I hadn't put my ass on MB I would still have only one world
> title".
>
> He knows it better than all of you put together, i think.
>

You can't be one of the GOAT without making the right decisions... or
even getting lucky now and again.

;-)

Not kidding, granny.

Billy.

--
Bozo Bin
Alan Baker (Troll, habitual liar and generally a twat)
Texasgate (well he's "Texasgate")

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Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
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 by: Slang - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 17:01 UTC

Il 24/04/2022 18:51, Bigbird ha scritto:
> Slang wrote:
>
>> Il 23/04/2022 20:02, Mark ha scritto:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>> Are you here to contradict the words of Hamilton himself?
>>
>> "If I hadn't put my ass on MB I would still have only one world
>> title".
>>
>> He knows it better than all of you put together, i think.
>>
>
> You can't be one of the GOAT without making the right decisions... or
> even getting lucky now and again.
>
Now and again, again, again, again........
S

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
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 by: Alan - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 17:30 UTC

On 2022-04-23 11:02 a.m., Mark wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>> ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
>>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
>>>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
>>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
>>>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
>>>>> 2022
>>>>>
>>>>> Just being polite I guess.
>>>>
>>>> "Pol"... ...something.
>>>>
>>>> Politic.
>>>
>>> Confirmation...
>>>
>>> ...bias.
>>
>> Really? Why?
>
> Because you pick and choose when things need clear evidence and when
> they don't. If it suits your theory, your standard of proof is very low
> and if it doesn't you suddenly want incontrovertible evidence.

Really?

How have I done that?

What have I chosen to ignore?

>
>> The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
>> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
>> second "greatest of all time"?
>
> Russell is pretty much as fast as (or faster than) Hamilton in the same
> car right now. That's at the start of the season with a radically
> changed car with acknowledged issues.

But it is the same car for both of them, agreed?

>
> Now, before you then leap on that observation as proof that he's only
> good in a good car, stick with this particular line of reasoning first.

That's not what I have ever claimed.

>
> That does *not* prove that Russell is as good as Hamilton. Every dog has
> his day. You don't find that out in a few races. I suspect Russell is
> very, very good. But he might burn out fast. Rosberg was as fast as
> Hamilton at times, and managed to beat him over a season in the same
> car. I think he's been clear that he found that year incredibly
> difficult and didn't want to repeat it. I have never seen him claim that
> he was (overall) Hamilton's better. Do you get the point?

What you claim while you're a part of a team is not necessarily what you
actually think, can you agree with that?

>
> Even if you believe that every one of his championship winning years he
> had the best car, to maintain that level of competitiveness over that
> long a time is special.

And I agree that Hamilton is one of the very best drivers of the current
era.

What I don't accept is all those people who claim that simply because he
has won that many championships that that is proof he is the GOAT.

>
> As I have said many, many times, I don't believe in GOAT. I wouldn't
> award that title to anyone. I wouldn't compare Hamilton to Schumacher
> let alone Fangio. It's meaningless. I *would* put people like Fangio,
> Clark, Moss, Stewart, Prost, Senna and Schumacher (amongst others) into
> the bracket of "the greats". I am certain Hamilton is in there somewhere
> too, but I am loathe to mix the greats who have come before in with the
> drivers still active.
>

It's not meaningless to have these discussions. It's just that such
discussions are fraught with problems because of the differences between
eras.

However, one of the things that distinguishes the very, very best is
their ability to outperform their teammates by large margins.

> Russell may one day earn his place amongst the greats, but matching (or
> beating) Hamilton in the current car over a few races cannot somehow
> award him the same (or close to the same) consideration by association.

But if Russell (and Bottas and Rosberg) can all nearly equal him over
seasons, it does argue against him being the goat.

>
> If you can't admit the truth of what I wrote there and thereby admit
> that this:
>
>> The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
>> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
>> second "greatest of all time"?
>
> is wrongheaded (and pretty poor) sophistry, you deserve to be called a
> troll.

Sorry, but I disagree.

It's not a single data point that supports my position:

It's Russell this season.

It's Russell stepping into a car that didn't even FIT him last season.

It's Bottas.

It's Rosberg.

They were all capable of matching or nearly matching Hamilton, not just
occasionally, but consistently.

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Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
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 by: Alan - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 17:33 UTC

On 2022-04-23 5:47 a.m., Sir Tim wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
>>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>> ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
>>>>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
>>>>>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
>>>>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
>>>>>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
>>>>>>> 2022
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just being polite I guess.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Pol"... ...something.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Politic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Confirmation...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...bias.
>>>>
>>>> Really? Why?
>>>>
>>>> The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
>>>> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
>>>> second "greatest of all time"?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and won 8
>>> (sorry 7) world championships.
>>
>> You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
>> probably have one just as many championships...
>>
> Quite possibly, but he wasn’t and he hasn’t.
>
> Given that the concept of GOAT is almost entirely subjective, the time to
> compare the acknowledged greats of the sport is when their careers are over
> (as we must assume Hamilton’s nearly is).
>
> It is entirely possible that Leclerc, Verstappen and/or Russell will join
> the pantheon of acknowledged greats but it is much too early to say.
>
> The number of WDCs won is a rather unreliable measure (compare Vettel and
> Alonso) but, if one were to use it, Schumacher and Hamilton would be the
> two standout drivers. Both had dominant cars for much of their careers,
> both won WDCs for two different teams but, whereas Michael usually had
> No.1. status and a compliant team mate, Lewis didn’t.
>

This is my problem, Tim.

Championships do not actually define who is great.

I'm sorry, but they just do not.

The greats usually win them, but that is because their talent is seen
and they end up getting the rides they want in the best cars.

Put simply:

Would Hamilton be any less a great driver (and I agree: he IS A GREAT
DRIVER) if for some reason he had been locked into a long-term contract
with... ...Williams for the last decade?

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
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 by: Alan - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 17:34 UTC

On 2022-04-24 9:51 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Slang wrote:
>
>> Il 23/04/2022 20:02, Mark ha scritto:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>> Are you here to contradict the words of Hamilton himself?
>>
>> "If I hadn't put my ass on MB I would still have only one world
>> title".
>>
>> He knows it better than all of you put together, i think.
>>
>
> You can't be one of the GOAT without making the right decisions... or
> even getting lucky now and again.

So you're seriously saying that Hamilton's talent AS A DRIVER depends on
which team he chooses do drive for?

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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From: no_em...@invalid.invalid (Sir Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
Date: 24 Apr 2022 17:51:51 GMT
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 by: Sir Tim - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 17:51 UTC

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2022-04-24 9:51 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>> Slang wrote:
>>
>>> Il 23/04/2022 20:02, Mark ha scritto:
>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Are you here to contradict the words of Hamilton himself?
>>>
>>> "If I hadn't put my ass on MB I would still have only one world
>>> title".
>>>
>>> He knows it better than all of you put together, i think.
>>>
>>
>> You can't be one of the GOAT without making the right decisions... or
>> even getting lucky now and again.
>
> So you're seriously saying that Hamilton's talent AS A DRIVER depends on
> which team he chooses do drive for?
>

Surely the point is that Hamilton’s talent was so obvious that several
teams were keen to sign him. Not many drivers are in that situation.

--
Sir Tim

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
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 by: build - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 19:50 UTC

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 10:47:44 PM UTC+10, Sir Tim wrote:
> Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
> > On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
> >> Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
> >>> On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
> >>>> Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
> >>>>>> ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
> >>>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
> >>>>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
> >>>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
> >>>>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
> >>>>>> 2022
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Just being polite I guess.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Pol"... ...something.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Politic.
> >>>>
> >>>> Confirmation...
> >>>>
> >>>> ...bias.
> >>>
> >>> Really? Why?
> >>>
> >>> The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
> >>> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
> >>> second "greatest of all time"?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and won 8
> >> (sorry 7) world championships.
> >
> > You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
> > probably have one just as many championships...
> >
> Quite possibly, but he wasn’t and he hasn’t.
>
> Given that the concept of GOAT is almost entirely subjective, the time to
> compare the acknowledged greats of the sport is when their careers are over
> (as we must assume Hamilton’s nearly is).
>
> It is entirely possible that Leclerc, Verstappen and/or Russell will join
> the pantheon of acknowledged greats but it is much too early to say.
>
> The number of WDCs won is a rather unreliable measure (compare Vettel and
> Alonso) but, if one were to use it, Schumacher and Hamilton would be the
> two standout drivers. Both had dominant cars for much of their careers,
> both won WDCs for two different teams but, whereas Michael usually had
> No.1. status and a compliant team mate, Lewis didn’t.
>
> --
> Sir Tim

Lewis has had "No 1" status. By hook or by crook.
Only a fool would doubt that.

Re: Russell - what would he know ...

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Subject: Re: Russell - what would he know ...
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 by: texas gate - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 20:23 UTC

On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 11:30:33 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-04-23 11:02 a.m., Mark wrote:
> > Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
> >> On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
> >>> Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
> >>>>> ?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
> >>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
> >>>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
> >>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
> >>>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
> >>>>> 2022
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just being polite I guess.
> >>>>
> >>>> "Pol"... ...something.
> >>>>
> >>>> Politic.
> >>>
> >>> Confirmation...
> >>>
> >>> ...bias.
> >>
> >> Really? Why?
> >
> > Because you pick and choose when things need clear evidence and when
> > they don't. If it suits your theory, your standard of proof is very low
> > and if it doesn't you suddenly want incontrovertible evidence.
> Really?
>
> How have I done that?
>
> What have I chosen to ignore?
> >
> >> The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
> >> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
> >> second "greatest of all time"?
> >
> > Russell is pretty much as fast as (or faster than) Hamilton in the same
> > car right now. That's at the start of the season with a radically
> > changed car with acknowledged issues.
> But it is the same car for both of them, agreed?
> >
> > Now, before you then leap on that observation as proof that he's only
> > good in a good car, stick with this particular line of reasoning first.
> That's not what I have ever claimed.
> >
> > That does *not* prove that Russell is as good as Hamilton. Every dog has
> > his day. You don't find that out in a few races. I suspect Russell is
> > very, very good. But he might burn out fast. Rosberg was as fast as
> > Hamilton at times, and managed to beat him over a season in the same
> > car. I think he's been clear that he found that year incredibly
> > difficult and didn't want to repeat it. I have never seen him claim that
> > he was (overall) Hamilton's better. Do you get the point?
> What you claim while you're a part of a team is not necessarily what you
> actually think, can you agree with that?
> >
> > Even if you believe that every one of his championship winning years he
> > had the best car, to maintain that level of competitiveness over that
> > long a time is special.
> And I agree that Hamilton is one of the very best drivers of the current
> era.
>
> What I don't accept is all those people who claim that simply because he
> has won that many championships that that is proof he is the GOAT.
> >
> > As I have said many, many times, I don't believe in GOAT. I wouldn't
> > award that title to anyone. I wouldn't compare Hamilton to Schumacher
> > let alone Fangio. It's meaningless. I *would* put people like Fangio,
> > Clark, Moss, Stewart, Prost, Senna and Schumacher (amongst others) into
> > the bracket of "the greats". I am certain Hamilton is in there somewhere
> > too, but I am loathe to mix the greats who have come before in with the
> > drivers still active.
> >
> It's not meaningless to have these discussions. It's just that such
> discussions are fraught with problems because of the differences between
> eras.
>
> However, one of the things that distinguishes the very, very best is
> their ability to outperform their teammates by large margins.
> > Russell may one day earn his place amongst the greats, but matching (or
> > beating) Hamilton in the current car over a few races cannot somehow
> > award him the same (or close to the same) consideration by association.
> But if Russell (and Bottas and Rosberg) can all nearly equal him over
> seasons, it does argue against him being the goat.
> >
> > If you can't admit the truth of what I wrote there and thereby admit
> > that this:
> >
> >> The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
> >> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
> >> second "greatest of all time"?
> >
> > is wrongheaded (and pretty poor) sophistry, you deserve to be called a
> > troll.
> Sorry, but I disagree.
>
> It's not a single data point that supports my position:
>
> It's Russell this season.
>
> It's Russell stepping into a car that didn't even FIT him last season.
>
> It's Bottas.
>
> It's Rosberg.
>
> They were all capable of matching or nearly matching Hamilton, not just
> occasionally, but consistently.

fuck off troll

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