I was re-reading Moss's 1961 victory at Monaco, and realized that Stirling beat the Ferraris with 151 bhp under his foot, as against their 200 bhp.

Then I compared that Climax's engine's power with the recent W Series 274 bhp, and with the F1 Academy cars and the USF 2000 Junior classes, which both use 174 bhp engines.

What would Stirling have done with 174 or 274 bhp? The same brilliant driving, with the world's admiration.

Why the hell do we need 800 bhp engines in order to reveal who are the best race drivers in the world?

On 2023-08-20 07:04, bra wrote:
> I was re-reading Moss's 1961 victory at Monaco, and realized that Stirling beat the Ferraris with 151 bhp under his foot, as against their 200 bhp.
>
>
> Then I compared that Climax's engine's power with the recent W Series 274 bhp, and with the F1 Academy cars and the USF 2000 Junior classes, which both use 174 bhp engines.
>
> What would Stirling have done with 174 or 274 bhp? The same brilliant driving, with the world's admiration.
>
> Why the hell do we need 800 bhp engines in order to reveal who are the best race drivers in the world?

We don't.

But we live in a society where too many people need to see that the lap
records will continue to drop year after year.

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 10:53:48 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> We don't.
>
> But we live in a society where too many people need to see that the lap
> records will continue to drop year after year.

thanks grandpa

On 21/08/2023 2:04 am, bra wrote:
> I was re-reading Moss's 1961 victory at Monaco, and realized that Stirling beat the Ferraris with 151 bhp under his foot, as against their 200 bhp.
>
>
> Then I compared that Climax's engine's power with the recent W Series 274 bhp, and with the F1 Academy cars and the USF 2000 Junior classes, which both use 174 bhp engines.
>
> What would Stirling have done with 174 or 274 bhp? The same brilliant driving, with the world's admiration.
>
> Why the hell do we need 800 bhp engines in order to reveal who are the best race drivers in the world?

Why do we need to push the limits with technological advances ?

Why not still use chariots and horses ?

geoff

bra wrote:
> I was re-reading Moss's 1961 victory at Monaco, and realized that Stirling beat the Ferraris with 151 bhp under his foot, as against their 200 bhp.
>
>
> Then I compared that Climax's engine's power with the recent W Series 274 bhp, and with the F1 Academy cars and the USF 2000 Junior classes, which both use 174 bhp engines.
>
> What would Stirling have done with 174 or 274 bhp? The same brilliant driving, with the world's admiration.
>
> Why the hell do we need 800 bhp engines in order to reveal who are the best race drivers in the world?
>

Monaco, less need for full power. On high-speed circuits, you use the
power to overcome aero drag and get a few more kh/h.
What was the maximum torque of Moss's engine versus Ferrari?

On 21/08/2023 12:04 am, bra wrote:
> I was re-reading Moss's 1961 victory at Monaco, and realized that Stirling beat the Ferraris with 151 bhp under his foot, as against their 200 bhp.
>
>
> Then I compared that Climax's engine's power with the recent W Series 274 bhp, and with the F1 Academy cars and the USF 2000 Junior classes, which both use 174 bhp engines.
>
> What would Stirling have done with 174 or 274 bhp? The same brilliant driving, with the world's admiration.
>
> Why the hell do we need 800 bhp engines in order to reveal who are the best race drivers in the world?

I watched that race live (on TV), I reckon it would be a prime candidate
for the best that I've seen. Moss won because it was Monaco, and because
he was braver than the rest. The chasers were all over him on the
straights, but he braked later and took the corners a bit faster,
keeping just enough advantage to keep the rest behind.

I wasn't supposed to watch it, I was round at my girlfriends house to
take her out for the afternoon, but couldn't tear myself away from the
TV. It put me in the doghouse for some time, but it was worth it.

On 2023-08-20 10:04, bra wrote:
> I was re-reading Moss's 1961 victory at Monaco, and realized that
> Stirling beat the Ferraris with 151 bhp under his foot, as against
> their 200 bhp.

I think you're missing a few nuances here..

In 1961, the engine displacement was reduced to 1.5 litres, and the
Coventry-Climax FPF Mk.II did indeed make 151bhp, but...

....the engine in the Type 156 F1 Ferrari was the 120° Chiti V-6 engine,
which made 190PS, which corrects to a horse power of 187HP, so not quite
the difference you suggested.

Furthermore, the Ferrari weighed more than the Lotus—by something like
20kg (44lb); a fact that is far, FAR more important on a tight circuit
like Monaco.

> Then I compared that Climax's engine's power with the recent W Series
> 274 bhp, and with the F1 Academy cars and the USF 2000 Junior
> classes, which both use 174 bhp engines.
>
> What would Stirling have done with 174 or 274 bhp? The same brilliant
> driving, with the world's admiration.

He had the world's admiration anyway, and speaking as a racing driver,
the admiration you really want is that of your peers.

>
> Why the hell do we need 800 bhp engines in order to reveal who are
> the best race drivers in the world?

We don't, obviously.

But what is just as obvious is that the powers-that-be believe that lap
times need to keep going down; that if next year's cars go slower than
this years, then there is a segment of the "fans" that won't be as
interested...

....and I think the powers are probably right about that.

Reducing horsepower would be fine with me.

Reducing the importance of aerodynamics and letting the cars race closer
because of it would be great...

....but I see why it doesn't happen.

On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:39:48 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> Reducing horsepower would be fine with me.

yes, but you are a woke, pussy, anti-passing, douche bag

On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:39:48 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> and speaking as a racing driver

lol

On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:39:48 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-08-20 10:04, bra wrote:

> > Why the hell do we need 800 bhp engines in order to reveal who are
> > the best race drivers in the world?

> We don't, obviously.

who is we?
anti-passing, woke, pussy, douche bags?