“According to some sources the complaints against Christian Horner are not
of a sexual nature but more about Horner's supposed aggressive and
controlling management style.”

Has any team manager ever been successful without being “aggressive and
controlling”?

--
Sir Tim

On 2/11/2024 9:37 AM, Sir Tim wrote:
> “According to some sources the complaints against Christian Horner
> are not of a sexual nature but more about Horner's supposed
> aggressive and controlling management style.”
>
> Has any team manager ever been successful without being “aggressive
> and controlling”?

Probably not, although (for example) beating staff about the head and
shoulders while shouting "No wire hangers! No wire hangers ever!" would
almost certainly be considered unacceptable. There's a line short of
that somewhere.

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
I have tried to bring scientific thinking to literary
criticism, and there's been very little gratitude for this.
- Kurt Vonnegut

On 12/02/2024 4:52 am, Mark Jackson wrote:
> On 2/11/2024 9:37 AM, Sir Tim wrote:
>> “According to some sources the complaints against Christian Horner
>> are not of a sexual nature but more about Horner's supposed
>> aggressive and controlling management style.”
>>
>> Has any team manager ever been successful without being “aggressive
>> and controlling”?

I doubt it, although maybe aggression per se isn't an absolute prerequisite.

> Probably not, although (for example) beating staff about the head and shoulders while shouting "No
> wire hangers! No wire hangers ever!" would almost certainly be considered unacceptable.  There's a
> line short of that somewhere.

Excellent point.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

On 12/02/2024 3:37 am, Sir Tim wrote:
> “According to some sources the complaints against Christian Horner are not
> of a sexual nature but more about Horner's supposed aggressive and
> controlling management style.”
>
> Has any team manager ever been successful without being “aggressive and
> controlling”?
>
>
>

Maybe more like "some team managers have been successful despite being
aggressive and controlling".

geoff

On 11 Feb 2024 14:37:18 GMT, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>“According to some sources the complaints against Christian Horner are not
>of a sexual nature but more about Horner's supposed aggressive and
>controlling management style.”
>
>Has any team manager ever been successful without being “aggressive and
>controlling”?

We don't know about him, but for example Ron Dennis was notoriously
hard on his people. Times has changed, and hes management style would
be questioned today.

On 11 Feb 2024 14:37:18 GMT, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>“According to some sources the complaints against Christian Horner are not
>of a sexual nature but more about Horner's supposed aggressive and
>controlling management style.”
>
>Has any team manager ever been successful without being “aggressive and
>controlling”?

Rebecca Clancy had a good article in yesterday;s Sunday Times about
her 7 years covering F1 for the paper:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/roaring-egos-and-track-titans-my-life-in-the-formula-one-fast-lane-pckhf8xrj

Unfortunately, it's paywalled but here are some extracts:

"The allegations against Horner have put the spotlight on what life is
like in the paddock, revealing that it is not just the finishing flags
that are chequered. Horner is known to be a hard taskmaster. One of
his employees told me he is laser-focused on presenteeism.

When most teams land back at headquarters, many staff go home. But Red
Bull is known to require its staff to go into the office, no matter
where they have flown in from. Perhaps unsurprisingly the team has a
high staff turnover.

[…]

One of the reasons Horner is paid a reported £8 million a year is
because he is brilliant at marketing - both himself and Red Bull. His
marriage to Geri Halliwell, the former Spice Girl, has added to his
fame and combined the pair are thought to be worth £80 million. The
pair have three children between them and a wi-fi password of
"Wonderful Husband".

Horner has rarely met a camera he doesn't like and his "big man in the
pit lane" shtick has flourished in front of Netflix's lenses. His rift
with Toto Wolff, the Mercedes team principal, bordered on the
ridiculous in 2021, their war of words escalating with every race.
Then it turned out that Drive to Survive was filming it all and
suddenly their behaviour began to make more sense.

I have written negatively about both Wolff and Horner but I believe I
have always been fair. Both can be prickly if they don't like what you
write or a question you ask. Each is hugely successful because they
demand the best from people and hold them to high standards. That can
cause friction and tension but that's also part of the job. When I was
pregnant with my second child and clearly showing, Wolff saw me and
walked across the paddock to congratulate me. Horner was equally kind.

[...]

With Wolff and Horner to the fore, Drive to Survive has transformed
the sport, turning already famous and powerful figures into
superstars, turbocharging egos and boosting the melodrama. There is no
doubt that it has been phenomenal for the popularity of F1, with one
survey finding that half of the fans who watch the sport had come to
it through the show.

But Drive to Survive has also been jet fuel to the egos in the sport,
who can often be found trying to get in front of the cameras,
showboating or talking about which episode they were in.

[…]

The celebs flit in and out but the paddock is always a hotbed of
gossip. Clearly Horner's fate is in the balance and if he loses his
job, this will undoubtedly have repercussions in the sport.

But it is also the case that F1 will always attract big egos, machismo
and tough characters. Driving at 200mph millimetres from a concrete
wall is bonkers, much as the drivers tell me they love it. Despite all
the strains and pressures of the pit lane, I will miss it greatly.

A bit about Hamilton and Verstappen in the same article:

"There is no doubt that this is a world dominated by men. In 2021,
just before the penultimate race in Saudi Arabia, I had brunch with
Sir Lewis Hamilton and a few other Fleet Street colleagues in London.
I've always had a good relationship with Hamilton. I find him polite
and engaging and he always looks you in the eye when he answers your
questions.

At this brunch, we were chatting about F1, and Hamilton, who has
regularly spoken about the lack of diversity in the sport, turned to
me and said: "Rebecca, there's something I wanted to ask you. What's
it like being a woman in F1?" I told him I never felt I was treated
any differently, which I didn't.

However, I did mention that I was heading to Saudi Arabia the next day
and was slightly hesitant about it because at the media hotel women
weren't allowed to use the pool or the gym. The next day, an email was
sent to all media which said women would have the same access to the
hotel facilities as the men. Hamilton had had a word.

[…]

Hamilton's fierce rival, the unstoppable Max Verstappen, is a more
reserved character. I wrote negatively about Verstappen in his early
years when he was making mistakes, and about his aggressive driving
style. But he didn't hold a grudge as far as I can tell. During our
most recent conversation we spent time talking about cats - he had got
a couple with Kelly Piquet, his long-term girlfriend. The paddock can
be an odd place."

On 13/02/2024 12:10 am, Martin Harran wrote:
> On 11 Feb 2024 14:37:18 GMT, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> “According to some sources the complaints against Christian Horner are not
>> of a sexual nature but more about Horner's supposed aggressive and
>> controlling management style.”
>>
>> Has any team manager ever been successful without being “aggressive and
>> controlling”?
>
>
> Rebecca Clancy had a good article in yesterday;s Sunday Times about
> her 7 years covering F1 for the paper:
> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/roaring-egos-and-track-titans-my-life-in-the-formula-one-fast-lane-pckhf8xrj
>
> Unfortunately, it's paywalled but here are some extracts:
>
> "The allegations against Horner have put the spotlight on what life is
> like in the paddock, revealing that it is not just the finishing flags
> that are chequered. Horner is known to be a hard taskmaster. One of
> his employees told me he is laser-focused on presenteeism.
>
> When most teams land back at headquarters, many staff go home. But Red
> Bull is known to require its staff to go into the office, no matter
> where they have flown in from. Perhaps unsurprisingly the team has a
> high staff turnover.
>
> […]
>
> One of the reasons Horner is paid a reported £8 million a year is
> because he is brilliant at marketing - both himself and Red Bull. His
> marriage to Geri Halliwell, the former Spice Girl, has added to his
> fame and combined the pair are thought to be worth £80 million. The
> pair have three children between them and a wi-fi password of
> "Wonderful Husband".
>
> Horner has rarely met a camera he doesn't like and his "big man in the
> pit lane" shtick has flourished in front of Netflix's lenses. His rift
> with Toto Wolff, the Mercedes team principal, bordered on the
> ridiculous in 2021, their war of words escalating with every race.
> Then it turned out that Drive to Survive was filming it all and
> suddenly their behaviour began to make more sense.
>
> I have written negatively about both Wolff and Horner but I believe I
> have always been fair. Both can be prickly if they don't like what you
> write or a question you ask. Each is hugely successful because they
> demand the best from people and hold them to high standards. That can
> cause friction and tension but that's also part of the job. When I was
> pregnant with my second child and clearly showing, Wolff saw me and
> walked across the paddock to congratulate me. Horner was equally kind.
>
> [...]
>
> With Wolff and Horner to the fore, Drive to Survive has transformed
> the sport, turning already famous and powerful figures into
> superstars, turbocharging egos and boosting the melodrama. There is no
> doubt that it has been phenomenal for the popularity of F1, with one
> survey finding that half of the fans who watch the sport had come to
> it through the show.
>
> But Drive to Survive has also been jet fuel to the egos in the sport,
> who can often be found trying to get in front of the cameras,
> showboating or talking about which episode they were in.
>
> […]
>
> The celebs flit in and out but the paddock is always a hotbed of
> gossip. Clearly Horner's fate is in the balance and if he loses his
> job, this will undoubtedly have repercussions in the sport.
>
> But it is also the case that F1 will always attract big egos, machismo
> and tough characters. Driving at 200mph millimetres from a concrete
> wall is bonkers, much as the drivers tell me they love it. Despite all
> the strains and pressures of the pit lane, I will miss it greatly.

Maybe he drinks a bit too much ..... Red Bull !

geoff

On 2024-02-12, Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Horner has rarely met a camera he doesn't like and his "big man in the
> pit lane" shtick has flourished in front of Netflix's lenses. His rift

I don't know, I recall seeing him not long after DC retired. DC
was doing a piece to camera and Horner made sure to get in frame
before blowing a raspberry at him - this was early morning on race
day. DC didn't skip a beat. Horner was assuming it was a pre-prepared
piece to camera and wondering why he hadn't responded immediately.

It became clear a few seconds later when DC shoved the microphone
in his direction. "Christian Horner, head of Red Bull, we're LIVE
on the BBC news channel..." and proceeded with an ad hoc mini-interview.

The look on his face was priceless...

As for the allegations I don't know, neither do you and speculation
will probably do more harm than good. I've always tried to avoid
having staff under me (more trouble than they're worth) but have
had to instruct more junior staff in the past as part of what I
was doing. It does depend on the individual, sometimes it's
listening to concerns and explaining why it is you want things done
in a particular way. Other people will object as a matter of habit
and I've used the metaphorical big stick, "THIS is what I want you
do and THAT is how you are going do it."

--
Andrew Smallshaw
andrews@sdf.org