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sport / rec.autos.sport.nascar / Re: The pattern continues...

SubjectAuthor
* Re: The pattern continues...a425couple
`* Re: The pattern continues...Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity)
 `* Re: The pattern continues...Michael Falkner
  `* Re: The pattern continues...Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity)
   `* Re: The pattern continues...Michael Falkner
    `* Re: The pattern continues...Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity)
     `* Re: The pattern continues...Michael Falkner
      +- Re: The pattern continues...Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity)
      +- Re: The pattern continues...Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity)
      `- Re: The pattern continues...Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity)

1
Re: The pattern continues...

<VBlRL.1885959$vBI8.1300491@fx15.iad>

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 by: a425couple - Sat, 18 Mar 2023 16:25 UTC

On 3/14/23 15:25, Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity) wrote:
> https://www.espn.com/racing/raceresults?raceId=202303120023&series=sprint
>
> Next weekend, it'll be the #5 or 48.
>
> Enjoy Nascar's HENDRICK CUP series!!

for another point of view:
https://racer.com/2023/03/17/knaus-explains-hendrick-position-on-hood-louver-dispute/

Knaus explains Hendrick position on hood louver dispute Rusty
Jarrett/Motorsport Images

By Kelly Crandall | March 17, 2023 5:44 PM ET

Chad Knaus was adamant Friday at Atlanta Motor Speedway that teams are
not being given single-sourced supplied parts with correct
specifications and Hendrick Motorsports only made the modifications to
the hood louvers that resulted in penalties for the team in order to
make them fit.

“We made sure our parts fit the hood, and the hood closed and did all
the stuff that it needed to do,” said Knaus, Hendrick Motorsports’ vice
president of competition (pictured at left, above, with team owner Rick
Hendrick).

NASCAR confiscated the hood louvers from all four cars the Friday of
Phoenix weekend. Although issues were found beforehand, all four teams
were allowed to participate in practice before the louvers were taken.

The teams were penalized earlier this week. In addition to $100,000
fines to all four crew chiefs and suspensions, the Nos. 5, 24, and 48
teams were docked 100 driver points, and all four teams were docked 100
owner points. There was also the loss of 10 playoff points.

“When we started to get parts at the beginning of the 2023 season, we
didn’t have the parts we thought we were going to have,” Knaus said.
“Through a tremendous amount of back and forth with NASCAR and the OEM
and the teams, there’s been conversations about whether we can clean up
the parts, not clean up the parts and it’s changed, quite honestly,
every couple of weeks. So, it’s been challenging for us to navigate, and
we’re going to have to see what happens when we get through the appeal.”

MORE NASCAR!
SHR reveals Harvick throwback livery for North Wilkesboro
Hendrick to appeal hood louver penalties
Hamlin fined over run-in with Chastain

Hendrick Motorsports did not request a deferral of the suspensions, and
all four crew chiefs are not at the track this weekend. Without an
appeal date, no decision has been made on whether the organization will
continue to have Cliff Daniels, Alan Gustafson, Rudy Fugle, and Blake
Harris serve those suspensions going forward.

In a statement issued after the penalty, Hendrick Motorsports said the
louvers were taken four hours after the inspection without prior
communication.

“It’s really confusing,” said Knaus. “We knew that there was some
attention to the area when we first went through technical inspection,
and that’s what’s really disappointing to me, quite honestly. We had
plenty of time to get those parts off the part if we felt like there was
something wrong. I can assure you if we knew there was going to be a
four-hour lag and we thought there was something wrong, they would have
been in a trash can being burned with fuel somewhere where nobody would
ever see them. We had no idea we’d been sitting in this position. So,
once again, really disappointing we are in the position we’re in right now.”

NASCAR expects cars to be legal when they show up at the racetrack.
However, Knaus said for a voluntary inspection, he doesn’t understand
the severity of a penalty seen post-race, such as with RFK Racing and
Front Row Motorsports last year.

“Again, from my perspective, I think it’s different,” Knaus said. “A
voluntary inspection, I don’t understand why you’d be hung and quartered
for a voluntary inspection that typically you’d be told, ‘Hey, you need
to go work on that,’ or, ‘Hey, we need to discuss what’s going on here.’”

Elton Sawyer, NASCAR senior vice president of competition, said
officials work with the teams to ensure parts and pieces fit correctly.
However, Sawyer said the louvers from Hendrick Motorsports were modified
beyond that level.

Even with all the back and forth, the Hendrick Motorsports statement
said there had been inconsistent and unclear communication from NASCAR.

“We submitted a part through the OEM to NASCAR and NASCAR chose a
single-source provider for those components,” Knaus said. “The
components haven’t been coming the way we expected them to be for a
couple of the OEMs, as far as I know, in the garage, and definitely all
of the Chevrolet teams.

“We started to have a dialogue with them in early February about those
problems. So, it was us through our aerodynamic departments, through our
OEM, back through NASCAR, back to us and back through our OEMs. So,
there is a significant amount of communication that’s been had and it’s
definitely confusing. The timelines are curious, but they’re there.”

Asked if he thought the parts were faulty or if they modified the parts
to be acceptable by NASCAR’s standards, Knaus said, “I can tell you
this, we’ve got a brand-new set of these parts that we can go pull off
the shelf right now that NASCAR deemed illegal and inappropriate to race.”

Knaus denied Hendrick Motorsports learned something from the Garage 56
program to apply to its Cup Series cars. With a different engine and
cooling package, Knaus said nothing translates.

Alex Bowman dropped from the point lead to 23rd in the standings with
negative playoff 10 playoff points. William Byron dropped to 29th and
has three playoff points, losing the 10 from his Las Vegas and Phoenix
Raceway wins. Kyle Larson is 32nd in the standings with negative nine
playoff points.

Knaus said every part of the penalty is harsh.

“I think it’s a terrible situation not only for us but the industry, to
be quite honest with you. I think that’s what I dislike the most. It’s
ugly. We shouldn’t be in this situation and it’s really unfortunate we
are because it doesn’t help anybody.

“We as a company and we in the garage, every one of these teams here are
being held accountable to put their car out there to go through
inspection and perform at the level they need to. The teams are being
held accountable for doing that. Nobody is holding the single-source
suppliers accountable at the level they need to be to give us the parts
that we need. Now that goes through NASCAR’s distribution center and
NASCAR’s approval process to get those parts, and we’re not getting the
right parts.”

Chad Knaus, Hendrick Motorsports, Hood Louvers, Cup Series, NASCAR

Kelly CrandallKelly Crandall
Kelly has been on the NASCAR beat full-time since 2013, and joined RACER
as chief NASCAR writer in 2017. Her work has also appeared in
NASCAR.com, the NASCAR Illustrated magazine, and NBC Sports. A corporate
communications graduate from Central Penn College, Crandall is a
two-time George Cunningham Writer of the Year recipient from the
National Motorsports Press Association.

MORE …

Re: The pattern continues...

<48dcc236-2cc1-4091-93a6-e9c90be4cd50n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: The pattern continues...
From: thekmanr...@gmail.com (Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity))
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 by: Chris K-Man (Zickcer - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 22:30 UTC

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 12:25:28 PM UTC-4, a425couple wrote:
> On 3/14/23 15:25, Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity) wrote:
> > https://www.espn.com/racing/raceresults?raceId=202303120023&series=sprint
> >
> > Next weekend, it'll be the #5 or 48.
> >
> > Enjoy Nascar's HENDRICK CUP series!!
> for another point of view:
> https://racer.com/2023/03/17/knaus-explains-hendrick-position-on-hood-louver-dispute/
>
> Knaus explains Hendrick position on hood louver dispute Rusty
> Jarrett/Motorsport Images
>
> By Kelly Crandall | March 17, 2023 5:44 PM ET
>
> Chad Knaus was adamant Friday at Atlanta Motor Speedway that teams are
> not being given single-sourced supplied parts with correct
> specifications and Hendrick Motorsports only made the modifications to
> the hood louvers that resulted in penalties for the team in order to
> make them fit.
>
> “We made sure our parts fit the hood, and the hood closed and did all
> the stuff that it needed to do,” said Knaus, Hendrick Motorsports’ vice
> president of competition (pictured at left, above, with team owner Rick
> Hendrick).
>
> NASCAR confiscated the hood louvers from all four cars the Friday of
> Phoenix weekend. Although issues were found beforehand, all four teams
> were allowed to participate in practice before the louvers were taken.
>
> The teams were penalized earlier this week. In addition to $100,000
> fines to all four crew chiefs and suspensions, the Nos. 5, 24, and 48
> teams were docked 100 driver points, and all four teams were docked 100
> owner points. There was also the loss of 10 playoff points.
>
> “When we started to get parts at the beginning of the 2023 season, we
> didn’t have the parts we thought we were going to have,” Knaus said.
> “Through a tremendous amount of back and forth with NASCAR and the OEM
> and the teams, there’s been conversations about whether we can clean up
> the parts, not clean up the parts and it’s changed, quite honestly,
> every couple of weeks. So, it’s been challenging for us to navigate, and
> we’re going to have to see what happens when we get through the appeal.”
>
> MORE NASCAR!
> SHR reveals Harvick throwback livery for North Wilkesboro
> Hendrick to appeal hood louver penalties
> Hamlin fined over run-in with Chastain
>
> Hendrick Motorsports did not request a deferral of the suspensions, and
> all four crew chiefs are not at the track this weekend. Without an
> appeal date, no decision has been made on whether the organization will
> continue to have Cliff Daniels, Alan Gustafson, Rudy Fugle, and Blake
> Harris serve those suspensions going forward.
>
> In a statement issued after the penalty, Hendrick Motorsports said the
> louvers were taken four hours after the inspection without prior
> communication.
>
> “It’s really confusing,” said Knaus. “We knew that there was some
> attention to the area when we first went through technical inspection,
> and that’s what’s really disappointing to me, quite honestly. We had
> plenty of time to get those parts off the part if we felt like there was
> something wrong. I can assure you if we knew there was going to be a
> four-hour lag and we thought there was something wrong, they would have
> been in a trash can being burned with fuel somewhere where nobody would
> ever see them. We had no idea we’d been sitting in this position. So,
> once again, really disappointing we are in the position we’re in right now.”
>
> NASCAR expects cars to be legal when they show up at the racetrack.
> However, Knaus said for a voluntary inspection, he doesn’t understand
> the severity of a penalty seen post-race, such as with RFK Racing and
> Front Row Motorsports last year.
>
> “Again, from my perspective, I think it’s different,” Knaus said. “A
> voluntary inspection, I don’t understand why you’d be hung and quartered
> for a voluntary inspection that typically you’d be told, ‘Hey, you need
> to go work on that,’ or, ‘Hey, we need to discuss what’s going on here.’”
>
> Elton Sawyer, NASCAR senior vice president of competition, said
> officials work with the teams to ensure parts and pieces fit correctly.
> However, Sawyer said the louvers from Hendrick Motorsports were modified
> beyond that level.
>
> Even with all the back and forth, the Hendrick Motorsports statement
> said there had been inconsistent and unclear communication from NASCAR.
>
> “We submitted a part through the OEM to NASCAR and NASCAR chose a
> single-source provider for those components,” Knaus said. “The
> components haven’t been coming the way we expected them to be for a
> couple of the OEMs, as far as I know, in the garage, and definitely all
> of the Chevrolet teams.
>
> “We started to have a dialogue with them in early February about those
> problems. So, it was us through our aerodynamic departments, through our
> OEM, back through NASCAR, back to us and back through our OEMs. So,
> there is a significant amount of communication that’s been had and it’s
> definitely confusing. The timelines are curious, but they’re there.”
>
> Asked if he thought the parts were faulty or if they modified the parts
> to be acceptable by NASCAR’s standards, Knaus said, “I can tell you
> this, we’ve got a brand-new set of these parts that we can go pull off
> the shelf right now that NASCAR deemed illegal and inappropriate to race.”
>
> Knaus denied Hendrick Motorsports learned something from the Garage 56
> program to apply to its Cup Series cars. With a different engine and
> cooling package, Knaus said nothing translates.
>
> Alex Bowman dropped from the point lead to 23rd in the standings with
> negative playoff 10 playoff points. William Byron dropped to 29th and
> has three playoff points, losing the 10 from his Las Vegas and Phoenix
> Raceway wins. Kyle Larson is 32nd in the standings with negative nine
> playoff points.
>
> Knaus said every part of the penalty is harsh.
>
> “I think it’s a terrible situation not only for us but the industry, to
> be quite honest with you. I think that’s what I dislike the most. It’s
> ugly. We shouldn’t be in this situation and it’s really unfortunate we
> are because it doesn’t help anybody.
>
> “We as a company and we in the garage, every one of these teams here are
> being held accountable to put their car out there to go through
> inspection and perform at the level they need to. The teams are being
> held accountable for doing that. Nobody is holding the single-source
> suppliers accountable at the level they need to be to give us the parts
> that we need. Now that goes through NASCAR’s distribution center and
> NASCAR’s approval process to get those parts, and we’re not getting the
> right parts.”
>
> Chad Knaus, Hendrick Motorsports, Hood Louvers, Cup Series, NASCAR
>
>
> Kelly CrandallKelly Crandall
> Kelly has been on the NASCAR beat full-time since 2013, and joined RACER
> as chief NASCAR writer in 2017. Her work has also appeared in
> NASCAR.com, the NASCAR Illustrated magazine, and NBC Sports. A corporate
> communications graduate from Central Penn College, Crandall is a
> two-time George Cunningham Writer of the Year recipient from the
> National Motorsports Press Association.
>
> MORE …
_________

Wow...

What a difference a week - and a few penalties - make!

And what a race today at Atlanta. Mr. Connecticut, Joe Logano, and
everyone else in the top ten, finished where they did through HARD
WORK and honest, clean competition!

Re: The pattern continues...

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Subject: Re: The pattern continues...
From: darkstar...@gmail.com (Michael Falkner)
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 by: Michael Falkner - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 02:57 UTC

On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 3:30:42 PM UTC-7, Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity) wrote:

> Wow...
>
> What a difference a week - and a few penalties - make!
>
> And what a race today at Atlanta. Mr. Connecticut, Joe Logano, and
> everyone else in the top ten, finished where they did through HARD
> WORK and honest, clean competition!

Call me Wednesday or Thursday before I believe that.

Mike

Re: The pattern continues...

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Subject: Re: The pattern continues...
From: thekmanr...@gmail.com (Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity))
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 by: Chris K-Man (Zickcer - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 15:52 UTC

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:57:47 PM UTC-4, Michael Falkner wrote:
>
> Call me Wednesday or Thursday before I believe that.
>
> Mike
____________

Still skeptical Mike - after all that fire and brimstone was handed down
against HMS?

Re: The pattern continues...

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Subject: Re: The pattern continues...
From: darkstar...@gmail.com (Michael Falkner)
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 by: Michael Falkner - Sun, 26 Mar 2023 17:04 UTC

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 8:52:48 AM UTC-7, Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity) wrote:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:57:47 PM UTC-4, Michael Falkner wrote:
> >
> > Call me Wednesday or Thursday before I believe that.
> >
> > Mike
> ____________
>
> Still skeptical Mike - after all that fire and brimstone was handed down
> against HMS?

I'll always be skeptical, because, if it's that bad, you'd have thought by now that NASCAR would've broken Hendrick up.

Mike

Re: The pattern continues...

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Subject: Re: The pattern continues...
From: thekmanr...@gmail.com (Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity))
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 by: Chris K-Man (Zickcer - Mon, 27 Mar 2023 12:02 UTC

On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 1:04:02 PM UTC-4, Michael Falkner wrote:

> I'll always be skeptical, because, if it's that bad, you'd have thought by now
>that NASCAR would've broken Hendrick up.
>
> Mike
___________________

Well, a HMS team managed to Pole yesterday at the Circuit in Texas, but all the teams finished all over
the grid, "retired" Jimmie near the cellar.

Back in the 00's and early 2010s, the patterns were unmistakeable - officials would call some
questionable cautions, "debris" etc, whenever a Hendrick driver was leading or was in the top 5 during a
race.

It got so predictable that by 2015-16 I stopped watching the races altogether, tuning out after the planes
flew over the stands! And THAT's what hurt Nascar's viewership and ratings - not "going around in circles
for several hours."

I thought, with the supposed retirements of Gordon and Johnson, that things would become more even-
handed. The season is still young. We'll see!

Re: The pattern continues...

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Subject: Re: The pattern continues...
From: darkstar...@gmail.com (Michael Falkner)
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 by: Michael Falkner - Thu, 30 Mar 2023 05:05 UTC

And the pattern continues...

All points penalties reversed on appeal.

Mike

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Subject: Re: The pattern continues...
From: thekmanr...@gmail.com (Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity))
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 by: Chris K-Man (Zickcer - Fri, 31 Mar 2023 20:44 UTC

On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 1:05:13 AM UTC-4, Michael Falkner wrote:
> And the pattern continues...
>
> All points penalties reversed on appeal.
>
> Mike
__________________

Show me da moh-nee!

smh...

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Subject: Re: The pattern continues...
From: thekmanr...@gmail.com (Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity))
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 by: Chris K-Man (Zickcer - Mon, 3 Apr 2023 09:54 UTC

On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 1:05:13 AM UTC-4, Michael Falkner wrote:
> And the pattern continues...
>
> All points penalties reversed on appeal.
>
> Mike
_________
Yesterday's race on FS1, which I don't get because I use terrestrial. Nothing to
see here anyway!...

https://www.espn.com/racing/raceresults?raceId=202304020018&series=sprint

Re: The pattern continues...

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Subject: Re: The pattern continues...
From: thekmanr...@gmail.com (Chris K-Man (Zickcermacity))
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 by: Chris K-Man (Zickcer - Mon, 10 Apr 2023 12:00 UTC

On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 1:05:13 AM UTC-4, Michael Falkner wrote:
> And the pattern continues...
>
> All points penalties reversed on appeal.
>
> Mike
____________________

Well, hope your Easter was good.

I'm glad I tuned out after opening ceremonies at Bristol dirt late yesterday afternoon.

I guess you're right, and those penalties against the HMS teams earlier in March were
just for show!

I checked yesterday's cup results here:
https://www.espn.com/racing/results

Since it's easier to follow happenings in the sport on ESPN than on NASCAR's own website, and
sure enough, the Hendrick teams just keep on 'winning', or at least breaking the top five, regardless
of who are in the drivers seats of those cars nowadays.


sport / rec.autos.sport.nascar / Re: The pattern continues...

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