Good evening all - good to see this place is still alive, if not thriving!

I'm having issues with paint, particularly on an old Ray Sims 2- I've been working on. We usually use good ol' fashioned Halford Appliance White for small areas after repair, and on Janouseks, Wintechs and even Filippis it's been fine. On this Sims, however, there's been a bad reaction three times. Instead of drying smooth, it comes up in patches that look "rumpled" - very similar to if you disturb new paint when it has dried enough to form a skin on top, but not enough to stop that being disrupted if you touch it....Does that make sense?

The first time it was sprayed by a boatman of many decades experience (John Lund, until his recent retirement boatman at Yarm School), so we put it down to that particular can. The second time it was done by someone new to the job, but whom John has been teaching (ie. me), so we put it down to inexperience. The third time (me, today) I spent a great deal of time prepping beforehand so I know I did everything right there, it was applied slowly, in multiple light coats with ample drying time between, and there were no drips or other obvious mistakes.

With that in mind, do any of you have either any idea what might be going on or, even better, recommendations as to what we might use instead?

Thank you! Lucy from Tees RC.

On Sunday, 16 July 2023 at 18:53:52 UTC+1, Lucy Radley wrote:
> Good evening all - good to see this place is still alive, if not thriving!
>
> I'm having issues with paint, particularly on an old Ray Sims 2- I've been working on. We usually use good ol' fashioned Halford Appliance White for small areas after repair, and on Janouseks, Wintechs and even Filippis it's been fine. On this Sims, however, there's been a bad reaction three times.. Instead of drying smooth, it comes up in patches that look "rumpled" - very similar to if you disturb new paint when it has dried enough to form a skin on top, but not enough to stop that being disrupted if you touch it....Does that make sense?
>
> The first time it was sprayed by a boatman of many decades experience (John Lund, until his recent retirement boatman at Yarm School), so we put it down to that particular can. The second time it was done by someone new to the job, but whom John has been teaching (ie. me), so we put it down to inexperience. The third time (me, today) I spent a great deal of time prepping beforehand so I know I did everything right there, it was applied slowly, in multiple light coats with ample drying time between, and there were no drips or other obvious mistakes.
>
> With that in mind, do any of you have either any idea what might be going on or, even better, recommendations as to what we might use instead?
>
> Thank you! Lucy from Tees RC.

Lucy - we have experienced the same thing, repainting an old Janousek that had almost certainly been repainted previously. I think the issue is that the Appliance White paint has a solvent in it that reacts badly with some other paints. I tried to work out what was in the Appliance White paint that was causing the reaction, not all paints will be the same, but think it might be that the appliance paints are epoxy paints that contain acetone which can react on acrylic based paints. We were fairly pragmatic about it - switched to using Plastikote paint on that boat and had no problem.

We experienced a similar issue with some poorly painted blades. Sanded them lightly and applied Appliance White - it acted as a better paint stripper than paint stripper. That turned out well, because it encouraged us to do a proper job, stripping off all the old paint before repainting!!

Andy

Thanks Andy, that's great - I thought it might be us doing something wrong, so just hearing someone else has encountered the same issue is really...well, comforting, frankly!

Having looked up Plastikote spray paints I see rather a large range. Which ones have you found ok for boats? The Quick Dry, One Coat Tile and Radiator gloss options all look promising...

On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 10:05:26 AM UTC+1, Andy McKenzie wrote:
> On Sunday, 16 July 2023 at 18:53:52 UTC+1, Lucy Radley wrote:
> > Good evening all - good to see this place is still alive, if not thriving!
> >
> > I'm having issues with paint, particularly on an old Ray Sims 2- I've been working on. We usually use good ol' fashioned Halford Appliance White for small areas after repair, and on Janouseks, Wintechs and even Filippis it's been fine. On this Sims, however, there's been a bad reaction three times. Instead of drying smooth, it comes up in patches that look "rumpled" - very similar to if you disturb new paint when it has dried enough to form a skin on top, but not enough to stop that being disrupted if you touch it.....Does that make sense?
> >
> > The first time it was sprayed by a boatman of many decades experience (John Lund, until his recent retirement boatman at Yarm School), so we put it down to that particular can. The second time it was done by someone new to the job, but whom John has been teaching (ie. me), so we put it down to inexperience. The third time (me, today) I spent a great deal of time prepping beforehand so I know I did everything right there, it was applied slowly, in multiple light coats with ample drying time between, and there were no drips or other obvious mistakes.
> >
> > With that in mind, do any of you have either any idea what might be going on or, even better, recommendations as to what we might use instead?
> >
> > Thank you! Lucy from Tees RC.
> Lucy - we have experienced the same thing, repainting an old Janousek that had almost certainly been repainted previously. I think the issue is that the Appliance White paint has a solvent in it that reacts badly with some other paints. I tried to work out what was in the Appliance White paint that was causing the reaction, not all paints will be the same, but think it might be that the appliance paints are epoxy paints that contain acetone which can react on acrylic based paints. We were fairly pragmatic about it - switched to using Plastikote paint on that boat and had no problem.
>
> We experienced a similar issue with some poorly painted blades. Sanded them lightly and applied Appliance White - it acted as a better paint stripper than paint stripper. That turned out well, because it encouraged us to do a proper job, stripping off all the old paint before repainting!!
>
> Andy

On Monday, 17 July 2023 at 20:47:09 UTC+1, Lucy wrote:
> Thanks Andy, that's great - I thought it might be us doing something wrong, so just hearing someone else has encountered the same issue is really...well, comforting, frankly!
>
> Having looked up Plastikote spray paints I see rather a large range. Which ones have you found ok for boats? The Quick Dry, One Coat Tile and Radiator gloss options all look promising...
> On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 10:05:26 AM UTC+1, Andy McKenzie wrote:
> > On Sunday, 16 July 2023 at 18:53:52 UTC+1, Lucy Radley wrote:
> > > Good evening all - good to see this place is still alive, if not thriving!
> > >
> > > I'm having issues with paint, particularly on an old Ray Sims 2- I've been working on. We usually use good ol' fashioned Halford Appliance White for small areas after repair, and on Janouseks, Wintechs and even Filippis it's been fine. On this Sims, however, there's been a bad reaction three times. Instead of drying smooth, it comes up in patches that look "rumpled" - very similar to if you disturb new paint when it has dried enough to form a skin on top, but not enough to stop that being disrupted if you touch it.....Does that make sense?
> > >
> > > The first time it was sprayed by a boatman of many decades experience (John Lund, until his recent retirement boatman at Yarm School), so we put it down to that particular can. The second time it was done by someone new to the job, but whom John has been teaching (ie. me), so we put it down to inexperience. The third time (me, today) I spent a great deal of time prepping beforehand so I know I did everything right there, it was applied slowly, in multiple light coats with ample drying time between, and there were no drips or other obvious mistakes.
> > >
> > > With that in mind, do any of you have either any idea what might be going on or, even better, recommendations as to what we might use instead?
> > >
> > > Thank you! Lucy from Tees RC.
> > Lucy - we have experienced the same thing, repainting an old Janousek that had almost certainly been repainted previously. I think the issue is that the Appliance White paint has a solvent in it that reacts badly with some other paints. I tried to work out what was in the Appliance White paint that was causing the reaction, not all paints will be the same, but think it might be that the appliance paints are epoxy paints that contain acetone which can react on acrylic based paints. We were fairly pragmatic about it - switched to using Plastikote paint on that boat and had no problem.
> >
> > We experienced a similar issue with some poorly painted blades. Sanded them lightly and applied Appliance White - it acted as a better paint stripper than paint stripper. That turned out well, because it encouraged us to do a proper job, stripping off all the old paint before repainting!!
> >
> > Andy
Lucy

We used the Plastikote Super Gloss. but that's very much a retail version, there might well be better formulations available from a specialist. When I have used acrylic sprays on blades I have finished things off with a clear acrylic to protect, but while it looks good you definitely don't end up with something as durable as a proper epoxy paint. I rue the day that our club member who ran a professional car respray business decided we were too recreationally focussed, and he wanted a more competitive club!!

Hi - we have a Sims Evolution double (from new). To my knowledge it was just polished gelcoat and was never painted when it was made. Over the years of use on the tideway, it has suffered numerous scores, scrapes and chips which I have always repaired with two-part gelcoat, rubbing down to match. In a few places it has developed some cracking (both the repairs and the original gelcoat), probably due to a long period of racking outside under a vinyl cover. I am considering how best to repair these and will be trying some MagicEzy Hairline Fix gelcoat sealant before a coat of gelcoat surface restorer and a good polish.

On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:59:51 AM UTC-7, Anatole Beams wrote:
> Hi - we have a Sims Evolution double (from new). To my knowledge it was just polished gelcoat and was never painted when it was made. Over the years of use on the tideway, it has suffered numerous scores, scrapes and chips which I have always repaired with two-part gelcoat, rubbing down to match. In a few places it has developed some cracking (both the repairs and the original gelcoat), probably due to a long period of racking outside under a vinyl cover. I am considering how best to repair these and will be trying some MagicEzy Hairline Fix gelcoat sealant before a coat of gelcoat surface restorer and a good polish.
Hi - This applies to all gelcoat repairs where the substrate is unknown or may be contaminated. I do the normal cleaning and scuffing of the surface, then go over it with a very thin coat of vinyl-ester resin catalyzed with mekp. As soon as the resin starts to kick I overcoat it with catalyzed gelcoat then proceed as normal.

On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 15:41:33 UTC+1, Jack wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:59:51 AM UTC-7, Anatole Beams wrote:
> > Hi - we have a Sims Evolution double (from new). To my knowledge it was just polished gelcoat and was never painted when it was made. Over the years of use on the tideway, it has suffered numerous scores, scrapes and chips which I have always repaired with two-part gelcoat, rubbing down to match.. In a few places it has developed some cracking (both the repairs and the original gelcoat), probably due to a long period of racking outside under a vinyl cover. I am considering how best to repair these and will be trying some MagicEzy Hairline Fix gelcoat sealant before a coat of gelcoat surface restorer and a good polish.
> Hi - This applies to all gelcoat repairs where the substrate is unknown or may be contaminated. I do the normal cleaning and scuffing of the surface, then go over it with a very thin coat of vinyl-ester resin catalyzed with mekp. As soon as the resin starts to kick I overcoat it with catalyzed gelcoat then proceed as normal.
jack

Can you expand a bit for those of us who aren't yet expert at doing this? What do you mean by the resin 'stating to kick"? is this the moment when the resin starts to harden? And then you apply the gelcoat before that hardening has completed?

Andy

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 1:43:46 AM UTC-7, Andy McKenzie wrote:
> On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 15:41:33 UTC+1, Jack wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:59:51 AM UTC-7, Anatole Beams wrote:
> > > Hi - we have a Sims Evolution double (from new). To my knowledge it was just polished gelcoat and was never painted when it was made. Over the years of use on the tideway, it has suffered numerous scores, scrapes and chips which I have always repaired with two-part gelcoat, rubbing down to match. In a few places it has developed some cracking (both the repairs and the original gelcoat), probably due to a long period of racking outside under a vinyl cover. I am considering how best to repair these and will be trying some MagicEzy Hairline Fix gelcoat sealant before a coat of gelcoat surface restorer and a good polish.
> > Hi - This applies to all gelcoat repairs where the substrate is unknown or may be contaminated. I do the normal cleaning and scuffing of the surface, then go over it with a very thin coat of vinyl-ester resin catalyzed with mekp. As soon as the resin starts to kick I overcoat it with catalyzed gelcoat then proceed as normal.
> jack
>
> Can you expand a bit for those of us who aren't yet expert at doing this? What do you mean by the resin 'stating to kick"? is this the moment when the resin starts to harden? And then you apply the gelcoat before that hardening has completed?
>
> Andy
That's it exactly. Once it starts to harden you can apply gelcoat. An easy way to tell is to check the resin in the mixing pot and once it starts to thicken or warm or get tacky it has started to kick off; then you can start applying gelcoat. Make sure you cover all the resin - some vinyl resins are like gelcoat and don't air harden.