https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/18/alabama-brandon-biden-license-plate/

I don’t care about this dude’s plate. But the suggestion that state
officials in Alabama, one of the reddest states with one of the reddest
state governments in the country, was trying to suppress his anti-Joe Biden
speech is so laughable I can’t believe any of the wingnut pundits involved
were able to pull off their fake outrage without breaking into peals of
laughter.

Gotta come up with something to keep the base excited and distract from
past Putin support, I guess.

--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian,
liberal personality.” — Altie

On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 15:45:15 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:

>https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/18/alabama-brandon-biden-license-plate/
>
>I don’t care about this dude’s plate. But the suggestion that state
>officials in Alabama, one of the reddest states with one of the reddest
>state governments in the country, was trying to suppress his anti-Joe Biden
>speech is so laughable I can’t believe any of the wingnut pundits involved
>were able to pull off their fake outrage without breaking into peals of
>laughter.
>
>Gotta come up with something to keep the base excited and distract from
>past Putin support, I guess.

Or possibly to remind people of the selective amnesia when it comes to past Obama support.
Obama's refusal to provide Ukraine with weapons that could help then defend themselves, despite
Congress and his own cabinet calling for just that, has had a high cost.
Trump provided weapons to Ukraine, shut down a Russian Consulate, expanded sanctions,
expanded energy sales to Europe to reduce their dependence on Russian gas, all policies
Obama frevently opposed. Actions speak louder than words. If past Russian support becomes an
election issue, the Dems may not fair well, given their record of past actions and inactions, and lies that are now exposed

From Brookings -

"Each administration should be judged on what it has achieved. At the end of the Obama’s two terms, Putin had elevated Russia to a credible
revisionist power on the international stage. Russia annexed Crimea and occupied much of Eastern Ukraine; ... the Kremlin gained a veto on any
possible political solution to Syria, and got a meaningful foothold in the broader region for the first time since Sadat threw Soviet advisors out;
and its populist allies and fellow-travelers were on the rise in Europe, fueling both anti-Americanism and illiberalism; and most damning of all, it
managed to meddle, almost unopposed, in U.S. politics—all on Obama’s watch."

and Brookomgs on Trump -

"If Vladimir Putin wanted to sow chaos and confusion in Washington, he has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. If he wanted a pliant ally in America,
he has abjectly failed."

Now, of course, Putin can do as he wishes since the Dems are back in office.

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 10:45:19 AM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/18/alabama-brandon-biden-license-plate/
>
> I don’t care about this dude’s plate. But the suggestion that state
> officials in Alabama, one of the reddest states with one of the reddest
> state governments in the country, was trying to suppress his anti-Joe Biden
> speech is so laughable I can’t believe any of the wingnut pundits involved
> were able to pull off their fake outrage without breaking into peals of
> laughter.
>
> Gotta come up with something to keep the base excited and distract from
> past Putin support, I guess.
>
>
> --
> “I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian,
> liberal personality.” — Altie

I want an Alabama vanity plate that says UGA33UA18. Or would that get me arrested?

<joe@mich.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 15:45:15 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/18/alabama-brandon-biden-license-plate/
>>
>> I don’t care about this dude’s plate. But the suggestion that state
>> officials in Alabama, one of the reddest states with one of the reddest
>> state governments in the country, was trying to suppress his anti-Joe Biden
>> speech is so laughable I can’t believe any of the wingnut pundits involved
>> were able to pull off their fake outrage without breaking into peals of
>> laughter.
>>
>> Gotta come up with something to keep the base excited and distract from
>> past Putin support, I guess.
>
> Or possibly to remind people of the selective amnesia when it comes to past Obama support.
> Obama's refusal to provide Ukraine with weapons that could help then
> defend themselves, despite
> Congress and his own cabinet calling for just that, has had a high cost.
> Trump provided weapons to Ukraine, shut down a Russian Consulate, expanded sanctions,
> expanded energy sales to Europe to reduce their dependence on Russian gas, all policies
> Obama frevently opposed. Actions speak louder than words. If past Russian
> support becomes an
> election issue, the Dems may not fair well, given their record of past
> actions and inactions, and lies that are now exposed
>
>
> From Brookings -
>
> "Each administration should be judged on what it has achieved. At the end
> of the Obama’s two terms, Putin had elevated Russia to a credible
> revisionist power on the international stage. Russia annexed Crimea and
> occupied much of Eastern Ukraine; ... the Kremlin gained a veto on any
> possible political solution to Syria, and got a meaningful foothold in
> the broader region for the first time since Sadat threw Soviet advisors out;
> and its populist allies and fellow-travelers were on the rise in Europe,
> fueling both anti-Americanism and illiberalism; and most damning of all, it
> managed to meddle, almost unopposed, in U.S. politics—all on Obama’s watch."
>
> and Brookomgs on Trump -
>
> "If Vladimir Putin wanted to sow chaos and confusion in Washington, he
> has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. If he wanted a pliant ally in America,
> he has abjectly failed."
>
> Now, of course, Putin can do as he wishes since the Dems are back in office.

Obama fucked up on Ukraine/Russia because he misread the situation and
thought China was the more important rival. There were good reasons for
thinking that, like a comparison of China’s economic power to Russia’s, but
nonetheless he fucked that up. But the point is that he fucked it up
because he was wrong, not because he was a crook in Putin’s pocket.

OTOH Trump fucked it up because he was a crook in Putin’s pocket. This was
obvious even before he was elected when his campaign team had no interest
in the contents of the 2016 Republican platform EXCEPT they demanded the
removal of a clause pledging to help Ukraine defend itself from Russia. Of
all the things in there that’s the only thing Trump’s people cared about?

And then he illegally held up military aid to Ukraine to try to blackmail
Zelensky into doing him a “favor”, which led to his first impeachment.
Sure he released the aid after what he was trying to pull was made public,
but he doesn’t get credit for that. He only did it because his extortion
scheme was caught and he had to. I won’t even go into Trump’s long history
of gushing fangirl praise for Putin, his weakening of NATO, etc.

But that was mainly an aside to my point, that a right-wing anti-Biden dude
claiming a right-wing anti-Biden state government was oppressing his free
speech against Biden is apparently the current level of right-wing
discourse.

--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian,
liberal personality.” — Altie

On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 18:32:51 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:

><joe@mich.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 15:45:15 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/18/alabama-brandon-biden-license-plate/
>>>
>>> I don?t care about this dude?s plate. But the suggestion that state
>>> officials in Alabama, one of the reddest states with one of the reddest
>>> state governments in the country, was trying to suppress his anti-Joe Biden
>>> speech is so laughable I can?t believe any of the wingnut pundits involved
>>> were able to pull off their fake outrage without breaking into peals of
>>> laughter.
>>>
>>> Gotta come up with something to keep the base excited and distract from
>>> past Putin support, I guess.
>>
>> Or possibly to remind people of the selective amnesia when it comes to past Obama support.
>> Obama's refusal to provide Ukraine with weapons that could help then
>> defend themselves, despite
>> Congress and his own cabinet calling for just that, has had a high cost.
>> Trump provided weapons to Ukraine, shut down a Russian Consulate, expanded sanctions,
>> expanded energy sales to Europe to reduce their dependence on Russian gas, all policies
>> Obama frevently opposed. Actions speak louder than words. If past Russian
>> support becomes an
>> election issue, the Dems may not fair well, given their record of past
>> actions and inactions, and lies that are now exposed
>>
>>
>> From Brookings -
>>
>> "Each administration should be judged on what it has achieved. At the end
>> of the Obama?s two terms, Putin had elevated Russia to a credible
>> revisionist power on the international stage. Russia annexed Crimea and
>> occupied much of Eastern Ukraine; ... the Kremlin gained a veto on any
>> possible political solution to Syria, and got a meaningful foothold in
>> the broader region for the first time since Sadat threw Soviet advisors out;
>> and its populist allies and fellow-travelers were on the rise in Europe,
>> fueling both anti-Americanism and illiberalism; and most damning of all, it
>> managed to meddle, almost unopposed, in U.S. politics?all on Obama?s watch."
>>
>> and Brookomgs on Trump -
>>
>> "If Vladimir Putin wanted to sow chaos and confusion in Washington, he
>> has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. If he wanted a pliant ally in America,
>> he has abjectly failed."
>>
>> Now, of course, Putin can do as he wishes since the Dems are back in office.
>
>Obama fucked up on Ukraine/Russia because he misread the situation and
>thought China was the more important rival. There were good reasons for
>thinking that, like a comparison of China’s economic power to Russia’s, but
>nonetheless he fucked that up. But the point is that he fucked it up
>because he was wrong, not because he was a crook in Putin’s pocket.
>
>OTOH Trump fucked it up because he was a crook in Putin’s pocket. This was
>obvious even before he was elected when his campaign team had no interest
>in the contents of the 2016 Republican platform EXCEPT they demanded the
>removal of a clause pledging to help Ukraine defend itself from Russia. Of
>all the things in there that’s the only thing Trump’s people cared about?
>
>And then he illegally held up military aid to Ukraine to try to blackmail
>Zelensky into doing him a “favor”, which led to his first impeachment.
>Sure he released the aid after what he was trying to pull was made public,
>but he doesn’t get credit for that. He only did it because his extortion
>scheme was caught and he had to. I won’t even go into Trump’s long history
>of gushing fangirl praise for Putin, his weakening of NATO, etc.
>
>But that was mainly an aside to my point, that a right-wing anti-Biden dude
>claiming a right-wing anti-Biden state government was oppressing his free
>speech against Biden is apparently the current level of right-wing
>discourse.

Trump's hostility to NATO was not from favoring Russia, but goes back to his "America First" plaform and desire for other countries pay an equitable
share of the cost. Europe did increase their portion by $100B and Trump changed his tune. Trump was very clear many time that his hostility to NATO
was financial, not political.
Corruption in Ukraine was well-known and a major concern, not an invention of Trump for political gain. Holding up weapons was Trump's hammer. Hunter
Biden's corruption is now coming out, as the NYT, almost two years later, "discovered" his non-existent laptop does indeed exist as well as the
emails.The impeachment, the Steele document, the FBI's involvement, and the Meuler Investigation based on a known at the time fake document, are the
real scandals.
Trump does not act presidential and he shoots from the hip. However, he does understand that sweet talk and paper promises do not get results like
witholding money and arms. The hammers he threatened to use may have caused fear, but they did get results.Was it wise to even hint of a NATO breakup?
Of course not, rather stupid actually. He fucked up, but not because he was Putin's lacky, but because he misjudged the effect he threats would have.
This is different from the corrutopn of the Dems who created a false Russian narative and witheld information to justify investigations and false
impeachements to win an election, without regard for the damage to federal institutions or country unity.

On 2022-03-18, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
><joe@mich.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 15:45:15 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/18/alabama-brandon-biden-license-plate/
>>>
>>> I don’t care about this dude’s plate. But the suggestion that state
>>> officials in Alabama, one of the reddest states with one of the reddest
>>> state governments in the country, was trying to suppress his anti-Joe Biden
>>> speech is so laughable I can’t believe any of the wingnut pundits involved
>>> were able to pull off their fake outrage without breaking into peals of
>>> laughter.
>>>
>>> Gotta come up with something to keep the base excited and distract from
>>> past Putin support, I guess.
>>
>> Or possibly to remind people of the selective amnesia when it comes to past Obama support.
>> Obama's refusal to provide Ukraine with weapons that could help then
>> defend themselves, despite
>> Congress and his own cabinet calling for just that, has had a high cost.
>> Trump provided weapons to Ukraine, shut down a Russian Consulate, expanded sanctions,
>> expanded energy sales to Europe to reduce their dependence on Russian gas, all policies
>> Obama frevently opposed. Actions speak louder than words. If past Russian
>> support becomes an
>> election issue, the Dems may not fair well, given their record of past
>> actions and inactions, and lies that are now exposed
>>
>>
>> From Brookings -
>>
>> "Each administration should be judged on what it has achieved. At the end
>> of the Obama’s two terms, Putin had elevated Russia to a credible
>> revisionist power on the international stage. Russia annexed Crimea and
>> occupied much of Eastern Ukraine; ... the Kremlin gained a veto on any
>> possible political solution to Syria, and got a meaningful foothold in
>> the broader region for the first time since Sadat threw Soviet advisors out;
>> and its populist allies and fellow-travelers were on the rise in Europe,
>> fueling both anti-Americanism and illiberalism; and most damning of all, it
>> managed to meddle, almost unopposed, in U.S. politics—all on Obama’s watch."
>>
>> and Brookomgs on Trump -
>>
>> "If Vladimir Putin wanted to sow chaos and confusion in Washington, he
>> has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. If he wanted a pliant ally in America,
>> he has abjectly failed."
>>
>> Now, of course, Putin can do as he wishes since the Dems are back in office.
>
> Obama fucked up on Ukraine/Russia because he misread the situation and
> thought China was the more important rival. There were good reasons for
> thinking that, like a comparison of China’s economic power to Russia’s, but
> nonetheless he fucked that up. But the point is that he fucked it up
> because he was wrong, not because he was a crook in Putin’s pocket.
>
> OTOH Trump fucked it up because he was a crook in Putin’s pocket. This was
> obvious even before he was elected when his campaign team had no interest
> in the contents of the 2016 Republican platform EXCEPT they demanded the
> removal of a clause pledging to help Ukraine defend itself from Russia. Of
> all the things in there that’s the only thing Trump’s people cared about?

Didn't you get the memo that the Russia collusion stuff is all made
up? Or are you trying to save Rachel Maddow's dignity?

Trump is a blithering idiot in many ways, and I am sure he can be
punked to do stuff like that Ukraine platform thing, but on many
levels he's better than Biden at leadership. And he is enough of a
wildcard and loose cannon that no one fucked with him, which is an
underrated attribute for a president.

*Everyone* has Biden's number. He couldn't lead his way out of
Candyland.

--
I despise people who go to the gutter on either the right or the left
and hurl rocks at those in the center. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower

On 3/18/2022 4:52 PM, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
> On 2022-03-18, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <joe@mich.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 15:45:15 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/18/alabama-brandon-biden-license-plate/
>>>>
>>>> I don’t care about this dude’s plate. But the suggestion that state
>>>> officials in Alabama, one of the reddest states with one of the reddest
>>>> state governments in the country, was trying to suppress his anti-Joe Biden
>>>> speech is so laughable I can’t believe any of the wingnut pundits involved
>>>> were able to pull off their fake outrage without breaking into peals of
>>>> laughter.
>>>>
>>>> Gotta come up with something to keep the base excited and distract from
>>>> past Putin support, I guess.
>>>
>>> Or possibly to remind people of the selective amnesia when it comes to past Obama support.
>>> Obama's refusal to provide Ukraine with weapons that could help then
>>> defend themselves, despite
>>> Congress and his own cabinet calling for just that, has had a high cost.
>>> Trump provided weapons to Ukraine, shut down a Russian Consulate, expanded sanctions,
>>> expanded energy sales to Europe to reduce their dependence on Russian gas, all policies
>>> Obama frevently opposed. Actions speak louder than words. If past Russian
>>> support becomes an
>>> election issue, the Dems may not fair well, given their record of past
>>> actions and inactions, and lies that are now exposed
>>>
>>>
>>> From Brookings -
>>>
>>> "Each administration should be judged on what it has achieved. At the end
>>> of the Obama’s two terms, Putin had elevated Russia to a credible
>>> revisionist power on the international stage. Russia annexed Crimea and
>>> occupied much of Eastern Ukraine; ... the Kremlin gained a veto on any
>>> possible political solution to Syria, and got a meaningful foothold in
>>> the broader region for the first time since Sadat threw Soviet advisors out;
>>> and its populist allies and fellow-travelers were on the rise in Europe,
>>> fueling both anti-Americanism and illiberalism; and most damning of all, it
>>> managed to meddle, almost unopposed, in U.S. politics—all on Obama’s watch."
>>>
>>> and Brookomgs on Trump -
>>>
>>> "If Vladimir Putin wanted to sow chaos and confusion in Washington, he
>>> has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. If he wanted a pliant ally in America,
>>> he has abjectly failed."
>>>
>>> Now, of course, Putin can do as he wishes since the Dems are back in office.
>>
>> Obama fucked up on Ukraine/Russia because he misread the situation and
>> thought China was the more important rival. There were good reasons for
>> thinking that, like a comparison of China’s economic power to Russia’s, but
>> nonetheless he fucked that up. But the point is that he fucked it up
>> because he was wrong, not because he was a crook in Putin’s pocket.
>>
>> OTOH Trump fucked it up because he was a crook in Putin’s pocket. This was
>> obvious even before he was elected when his campaign team had no interest
>> in the contents of the 2016 Republican platform EXCEPT they demanded the
>> removal of a clause pledging to help Ukraine defend itself from Russia. Of
>> all the things in there that’s the only thing Trump’s people cared about?
>
> Didn't you get the memo that the Russia collusion stuff is all made
> up? Or are you trying to save Rachel Maddow's dignity?
>
> Trump is a blithering idiot in many ways, and I am sure he can be
> punked to do stuff like that Ukraine platform thing, but on many
> levels he's better than Biden at leadership. And he is enough of a
> wildcard and loose cannon that no one fucked with him, which is an
> underrated attribute for a president.
>
> *Everyone* has Biden's number. He couldn't lead his way out of
> Candyland.
>

+1

--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 1:53:02 PM UTC-7, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
> On 2022-03-18, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ><j...@mich.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 15:45:15 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/18/alabama-brandon-biden-license-plate/
> >>>
> >>> I don’t care about this dude’s plate. But the suggestion that state
> >>> officials in Alabama, one of the reddest states with one of the reddest
> >>> state governments in the country, was trying to suppress his anti-Joe Biden
> >>> speech is so laughable I can’t believe any of the wingnut pundits involved
> >>> were able to pull off their fake outrage without breaking into peals of
> >>> laughter.
> >>>
> >>> Gotta come up with something to keep the base excited and distract from
> >>> past Putin support, I guess.
> >>
> >> Or possibly to remind people of the selective amnesia when it comes to past Obama support.
> >> Obama's refusal to provide Ukraine with weapons that could help then
> >> defend themselves, despite
> >> Congress and his own cabinet calling for just that, has had a high cost.
> >> Trump provided weapons to Ukraine, shut down a Russian Consulate, expanded sanctions,
> >> expanded energy sales to Europe to reduce their dependence on Russian gas, all policies
> >> Obama frevently opposed. Actions speak louder than words. If past Russian
> >> support becomes an
> >> election issue, the Dems may not fair well, given their record of past
> >> actions and inactions, and lies that are now exposed
> >>
> >>
> >> From Brookings -
> >>
> >> "Each administration should be judged on what it has achieved. At the end
> >> of the Obama’s two terms, Putin had elevated Russia to a credible
> >> revisionist power on the international stage. Russia annexed Crimea and
> >> occupied much of Eastern Ukraine; ... the Kremlin gained a veto on any
> >> possible political solution to Syria, and got a meaningful foothold in
> >> the broader region for the first time since Sadat threw Soviet advisors out;
> >> and its populist allies and fellow-travelers were on the rise in Europe,
> >> fueling both anti-Americanism and illiberalism; and most damning of all, it
> >> managed to meddle, almost unopposed, in U.S. politics—all on Obama’s watch."
> >>
> >> and Brookomgs on Trump -
> >>
> >> "If Vladimir Putin wanted to sow chaos and confusion in Washington, he
> >> has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. If he wanted a pliant ally in America,
> >> he has abjectly failed."
> >>
> >> Now, of course, Putin can do as he wishes since the Dems are back in office.
> >
> > Obama fucked up on Ukraine/Russia because he misread the situation and
> > thought China was the more important rival. There were good reasons for
> > thinking that, like a comparison of China’s economic power to Russia’s, but
> > nonetheless he fucked that up. But the point is that he fucked it up
> > because he was wrong, not because he was a crook in Putin’s pocket.
> >
> > OTOH Trump fucked it up because he was a crook in Putin’s pocket. This was
> > obvious even before he was elected when his campaign team had no interest
> > in the contents of the 2016 Republican platform EXCEPT they demanded the
> > removal of a clause pledging to help Ukraine defend itself from Russia. Of
> > all the things in there that’s the only thing Trump’s people cared about?
> Didn't you get the memo that the Russia collusion stuff is all made
> up? Or are you trying to save Rachel Maddow's dignity?
>
> Trump is a blithering idiot in many ways, and I am sure he can be
> punked to do stuff like that Ukraine platform thing, but on many
> levels he's better than Biden at leadership. And he is enough of a
> wildcard and loose cannon that no one fucked with him, which is an
> underrated attribute for a president.
>
> *Everyone* has Biden's number. He couldn't lead his way out of
> Candyland.
>
> --
> I despise people who go to the gutter on either the right or the left
> and hurl rocks at those in the center. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower

I think, in a way, Trump was better in protecting the US and its interests than Biden. Biden, however, is much better on domestic issues. For example, he doesn't want to overthrow democracy in America.

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 8:45:19 AM UTC-7, xyzzy wrote:

> Gotta come up with something to keep the base excited and distract from
> past Putin support, I guess.

Who says just past Putin support?

Not only that, but the guy clearly is trying to incite shit.

They literally live in another country.

Mike

On 3/18/2022 5:07 PM, Eric Ramon wrote:
> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 1:53:02 PM UTC-7, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
>> On 2022-03-18, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <j...@mich.com> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 15:45:15 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/18/alabama-brandon-biden-license-plate/
>>>>>
>>>>> I don’t care about this dude’s plate. But the suggestion that state
>>>>> officials in Alabama, one of the reddest states with one of the reddest
>>>>> state governments in the country, was trying to suppress his anti-Joe Biden
>>>>> speech is so laughable I can’t believe any of the wingnut pundits involved
>>>>> were able to pull off their fake outrage without breaking into peals of
>>>>> laughter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gotta come up with something to keep the base excited and distract from
>>>>> past Putin support, I guess.
>>>>
>>>> Or possibly to remind people of the selective amnesia when it comes to past Obama support.
>>>> Obama's refusal to provide Ukraine with weapons that could help then
>>>> defend themselves, despite
>>>> Congress and his own cabinet calling for just that, has had a high cost.
>>>> Trump provided weapons to Ukraine, shut down a Russian Consulate, expanded sanctions,
>>>> expanded energy sales to Europe to reduce their dependence on Russian gas, all policies
>>>> Obama frevently opposed. Actions speak louder than words. If past Russian
>>>> support becomes an
>>>> election issue, the Dems may not fair well, given their record of past
>>>> actions and inactions, and lies that are now exposed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From Brookings -
>>>>
>>>> "Each administration should be judged on what it has achieved. At the end
>>>> of the Obama’s two terms, Putin had elevated Russia to a credible
>>>> revisionist power on the international stage. Russia annexed Crimea and
>>>> occupied much of Eastern Ukraine; ... the Kremlin gained a veto on any
>>>> possible political solution to Syria, and got a meaningful foothold in
>>>> the broader region for the first time since Sadat threw Soviet advisors out;
>>>> and its populist allies and fellow-travelers were on the rise in Europe,
>>>> fueling both anti-Americanism and illiberalism; and most damning of all, it
>>>> managed to meddle, almost unopposed, in U.S. politics—all on Obama’s watch."
>>>>
>>>> and Brookomgs on Trump -
>>>>
>>>> "If Vladimir Putin wanted to sow chaos and confusion in Washington, he
>>>> has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. If he wanted a pliant ally in America,
>>>> he has abjectly failed."
>>>>
>>>> Now, of course, Putin can do as he wishes since the Dems are back in office.
>>>
>>> Obama fucked up on Ukraine/Russia because he misread the situation and
>>> thought China was the more important rival. There were good reasons for
>>> thinking that, like a comparison of China’s economic power to Russia’s, but
>>> nonetheless he fucked that up. But the point is that he fucked it up
>>> because he was wrong, not because he was a crook in Putin’s pocket.
>>>
>>> OTOH Trump fucked it up because he was a crook in Putin’s pocket. This was
>>> obvious even before he was elected when his campaign team had no interest
>>> in the contents of the 2016 Republican platform EXCEPT they demanded the
>>> removal of a clause pledging to help Ukraine defend itself from Russia. Of
>>> all the things in there that’s the only thing Trump’s people cared about?
>> Didn't you get the memo that the Russia collusion stuff is all made
>> up? Or are you trying to save Rachel Maddow's dignity?
>>
>> Trump is a blithering idiot in many ways, and I am sure he can be
>> punked to do stuff like that Ukraine platform thing, but on many
>> levels he's better than Biden at leadership. And he is enough of a
>> wildcard and loose cannon that no one fucked with him, which is an
>> underrated attribute for a president.
>>
>> *Everyone* has Biden's number. He couldn't lead his way out of
>> Candyland.
>>
>> --
>> I despise people who go to the gutter on either the right or the left
>> and hurl rocks at those in the center. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
>
> I think, in a way, Trump was better in protecting the US and its interests than Biden. Biden, however, is much better on domestic issues. For example, he doesn't want to overthrow democracy in America.

But he would overthrow the Republic.

--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 1:53:02 PM UTC-7, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:

> Didn't you get the memo that the Russia collusion stuff is all made
> up? Or are you trying to save Rachel Maddow's dignity?

At least that would be dignity worth saving, unlike most Republicans these days.
> Trump is a blithering idiot in many ways, and I am sure he can be
> punked to do stuff like that Ukraine platform thing, but on many
> levels he's better than Biden at leadership. And he is enough of a
> wildcard and loose cannon that no one fucked with him, which is an
> underrated attribute for a president.

Except for one problem: He's a fat coward. He was put in office to eliminate the left-wing lessers.

We still live, and your cowardice remains.
> *Everyone* has Biden's number. He couldn't lead his way out of
> Candyland.

Then why hasn't Putin already nuked an American city to get the point across (and, perhaps, to even instigate the right to start shooting up the country and further weaken America)?

Mike

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:20:37 PM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:

> But he would overthrow the Republic.

The very fact we live and we are allowed to live overthrows your Republic.

The very fact the Constitution is an imposition of our rights against yours (which is why the 14th repealed the 10th) overthrows your Republic.

Mike

On 3/18/2022 5:21 PM, Michael Falkner wrote:
> Then why hasn't Putin already nuked an American city to get the point across (and, perhaps, to even instigate the right to start shooting up the country and further weaken America)?
>
> Mike

Because he doesn't want the same in response.

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ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:23:11 PM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:
> On 3/18/2022 5:21 PM, Michael Falkner wrote:
> > Then why hasn't Putin already nuked an American city to get the point across (and, perhaps, to even instigate the right to start shooting up the country and further weaken America)?

> Because he doesn't want the same in response.

He has to know, at some point, he's going to have to, like it or lump it.

The guy basically wants the entire Soviet Union back, and, if Europe is as weak as they presently present (with the USA staying out of it due to nuclear threats), why not just take all of Europe too?

Mike

On 3/18/2022 5:22 PM, Michael Falkner wrote:
> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:20:37 PM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:
>
>> But he would overthrow the Republic.
>
> The very fact we live and we are allowed to live overthrows your Republic.
>
> The very fact the Constitution is an imposition of our rights against yours (which is why the 14th repealed the 10th) overthrows your Republic.
>
> Mike

Wrong.

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ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

On 3/18/2022 5:36 PM, Michael Falkner wrote:
> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:23:11 PM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:
>> On 3/18/2022 5:21 PM, Michael Falkner wrote:
>>> Then why hasn't Putin already nuked an American city to get the point across (and, perhaps, to even instigate the right to start shooting up the country and further weaken America)?
>
>> Because he doesn't want the same in response.
>
> He has to know, at some point, he's going to have to, like it or lump it.
>
> The guy basically wants the entire Soviet Union back, and, if Europe is as weak as they presently present (with the USA staying out of it due to nuclear threats), why not just take all of Europe too?
>
> Mike

Because the Russians aren't as bad ass conventionally as everyone
thought, including Putin.

--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:38:21 PM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:
> On 3/18/2022 5:22 PM, Michael Falkner wrote:
> > On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:20:37 PM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:
> >
> >> But he would overthrow the Republic.
> >
> > The very fact we live and we are allowed to live overthrows your Republic.
> >
> > The very fact the Constitution is an imposition of our rights against yours (which is why the 14th repealed the 10th) overthrows your Republic.

> Wrong.

You know that, from your perspective, I'm right. You just don't have neither the balls to admit it to the rest of us or take the actions necessary to enforce it.

Your "states rights" would be the ones to kill any undesirable which entered your state.

Mike

On 3/18/2022 5:41 PM, Michael Falkner wrote:
> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:38:21 PM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:
>> On 3/18/2022 5:22 PM, Michael Falkner wrote:
>>> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:20:37 PM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:
>>>
>>>> But he would overthrow the Republic.
>>>
>>> The very fact we live and we are allowed to live overthrows your Republic.
>>>
>>> The very fact the Constitution is an imposition of our rights against yours (which is why the 14th repealed the 10th) overthrows your Republic.
>
>> Wrong.
>
> You know that, from your perspective, I'm right. You just don't have neither the balls to admit it to the rest of us or take the actions necessary to enforce it.
>
> Your "states rights" would be the ones to kill any undesirable which entered your state.
>
> Mike

Wrong.

--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:40:46 PM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:
> On 3/18/2022 5:36 PM, Michael Falkner wrote:
> > On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:23:11 PM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:
> >> On 3/18/2022 5:21 PM, Michael Falkner wrote:
> >>> Then why hasn't Putin already nuked an American city to get the point across (and, perhaps, to even instigate the right to start shooting up the country and further weaken America)?
> >
> >> Because he doesn't want the same in response.
> >
> > He has to know, at some point, he's going to have to, like it or lump it.
> >
> > The guy basically wants the entire Soviet Union back, and, if Europe is as weak as they presently present (with the USA staying out of it due to nuclear threats), why not just take all of Europe too?
> >
> > Mike
> Because the Russians aren't as bad ass conventionally as everyone
> thought, including Putin.
> --
> ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

yes, it's pretty interesting how Ukraine's resistance is fairly effective.

On 2022-03-18, Eric Ramon <ramon.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 1:53:02 PM UTC-7, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
>> On 2022-03-18, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ><j...@mich.com> wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 15:45:15 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/18/alabama-brandon-biden-license-plate/
>> >>>
>> >>> I don’t care about this dude’s plate. But the suggestion that state
>> >>> officials in Alabama, one of the reddest states with one of the reddest
>> >>> state governments in the country, was trying to suppress his anti-Joe Biden
>> >>> speech is so laughable I can’t believe any of the wingnut pundits involved
>> >>> were able to pull off their fake outrage without breaking into peals of
>> >>> laughter.
>> >>>
>> >>> Gotta come up with something to keep the base excited and distract from
>> >>> past Putin support, I guess.
>> >>
>> >> Or possibly to remind people of the selective amnesia when it comes to past Obama support.
>> >> Obama's refusal to provide Ukraine with weapons that could help then
>> >> defend themselves, despite
>> >> Congress and his own cabinet calling for just that, has had a high cost.
>> >> Trump provided weapons to Ukraine, shut down a Russian Consulate, expanded sanctions,
>> >> expanded energy sales to Europe to reduce their dependence on Russian gas, all policies
>> >> Obama frevently opposed. Actions speak louder than words. If past Russian
>> >> support becomes an
>> >> election issue, the Dems may not fair well, given their record of past
>> >> actions and inactions, and lies that are now exposed
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From Brookings -
>> >>
>> >> "Each administration should be judged on what it has achieved. At the end
>> >> of the Obama’s two terms, Putin had elevated Russia to a credible
>> >> revisionist power on the international stage. Russia annexed Crimea and
>> >> occupied much of Eastern Ukraine; ... the Kremlin gained a veto on any
>> >> possible political solution to Syria, and got a meaningful foothold in
>> >> the broader region for the first time since Sadat threw Soviet advisors out;
>> >> and its populist allies and fellow-travelers were on the rise in Europe,
>> >> fueling both anti-Americanism and illiberalism; and most damning of all, it
>> >> managed to meddle, almost unopposed, in U.S. politics—all on Obama’s watch."
>> >>
>> >> and Brookomgs on Trump -
>> >>
>> >> "If Vladimir Putin wanted to sow chaos and confusion in Washington, he
>> >> has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. If he wanted a pliant ally in America,
>> >> he has abjectly failed."
>> >>
>> >> Now, of course, Putin can do as he wishes since the Dems are back in office.
>> >
>> > Obama fucked up on Ukraine/Russia because he misread the situation and
>> > thought China was the more important rival. There were good reasons for
>> > thinking that, like a comparison of China’s economic power to Russia’s, but
>> > nonetheless he fucked that up. But the point is that he fucked it up
>> > because he was wrong, not because he was a crook in Putin’s pocket.
>> >
>> > OTOH Trump fucked it up because he was a crook in Putin’s pocket. This was
>> > obvious even before he was elected when his campaign team had no interest
>> > in the contents of the 2016 Republican platform EXCEPT they demanded the
>> > removal of a clause pledging to help Ukraine defend itself from Russia. Of
>> > all the things in there that’s the only thing Trump’s people cared about?
>> Didn't you get the memo that the Russia collusion stuff is all made
>> up? Or are you trying to save Rachel Maddow's dignity?
>>
>> Trump is a blithering idiot in many ways, and I am sure he can be
>> punked to do stuff like that Ukraine platform thing, but on many
>> levels he's better than Biden at leadership. And he is enough of a
>> wildcard and loose cannon that no one fucked with him, which is an
>> underrated attribute for a president.
>>
>> *Everyone* has Biden's number. He couldn't lead his way out of
>> Candyland.
>>
>
> I think, in a way, Trump was better in protecting the US and its
> interests than Biden. Biden, however, is much better on domestic
> issues. For example, he doesn't want to overthrow democracy in
> America.

No one let him, now did they.

Pence did the right thing. And Trump (and the people who helped him
win power) got punished when the GOP lost Georgia. Just like Democrats
are going to be punished by their systematic warping of our system
(like taking weeks to count votes, Twitter and Google banning the
Hunter Biden story, etc).

If you think this makes Biden better on domestic issues, I feel sorry
for your analytical skills. He has driven our national boat up on the
rocks, and hundreds of millions of poor people are going to pay for it
by starving or falling back into extreme poverty.

Love the new memes:

You got your stimmie check! Now welcome to $6.00 gas...

You got your $15.00 minimum wage! Now welcome to $6.00 gas...

--
"The formula for achieving a successful relationship is simple: you
should treat all disasters as if they were trivialities but never
treat a triviality as if it were a disaster." -- Quentin Crisp

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 11:45:19 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/18/alabama-brandon-biden-license-plate/
>
> I don’t care about this dude’s plate. But the suggestion that state
> officials in Alabama, one of the reddest states with one of the reddest
> state governments in the country, was trying to suppress his anti-Joe Biden
> speech is so laughable I can’t believe any of the wingnut pundits involved
> were able to pull off their fake outrage without breaking into peals of
> laughter.

On the issue of "fake outrage," this story makes it to the WaPo? I'm sure
there is a term for this, but I believe these stories are published in order
to impeach REAL censorship stories. I doubt very much if the WaPo,
"Democracy Dies in Darkness" publish any of the daily examples of
conservatives having their speech censored.

BTW: Bama is red, but, as with most (all?) states, the government machinery
is blue.

-TE

"By far the best and most accurate reporting on all matters relating to Russiagate
came not from the liberal corporate outlets that want to censor the internet in the
name of disinformation or which shower themselves with Pulitzers for lies, but
from the right-wing press."

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 9:45:36 AM UTC-5, TE wrote:
> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 11:45:19 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
> > https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/18/alabama-brandon-biden-license-plate/
> >
> > I don’t care about this dude’s plate. But the suggestion that state
> > officials in Alabama, one of the reddest states with one of the reddest
> > state governments in the country, was trying to suppress his anti-Joe Biden
> > speech is so laughable I can’t believe any of the wingnut pundits involved
> > were able to pull off their fake outrage without breaking into peals of
> > laughter.
> On the issue of "fake outrage," this story makes it to the WaPo? I'm sure
> there is a term for this, but I believe these stories are published in order
> to impeach REAL censorship stories. I doubt very much if the WaPo,
> "Democracy Dies in Darkness" publish any of the daily examples of
> conservatives having their speech censored.
>
> BTW: Bama is red, but, as with most (all?) states, the government machinery
> is blue.
>
> -TE
>
> "By far the best and most accurate reporting on all matters relating to Russiagate
> came not from the liberal corporate outlets that want to censor the internet in the
> name of disinformation or which shower themselves with Pulitzers for lies, but
> from the right-wing press."

Rural Alabama is redder than red, except the parts where the slaves and sharecroppers worked the cotton fields. The suburbs are probably more red than blue; and the urban areas, especially the parts to which the aforementioned sharecroppers moved when the cotton farms started to disappear, are very blue.

The government at the state level has been red since the Dixiecrats joined the GOP and is probably redder now than it has been in decades. Also probably redder than it would be if every eligible voter in Alabama voted in elections.

At the county level, whether the government is blue or red probably comes down to whether it contains an urban area and/or areas where lots of slaves picked cotton. However, I’m willing to bet there are more counties in Alabama with red governments than blue ones.

All of the above, btw, is based on my personal experience of living in and traveling through the deep south for over 50 years? Where are you from? I don’t think it’s the south. Or maybe you just lived in some tiny little town and never left it.

TLDR: If you want to understand Alabama (or Mississippi) politics look at maps of former cotton fields.