Don’t even consider the fact that Florida changed state law to exact
revenge on a specific corporation for merely disagreeing with them.

Consider their total incompetence in giving Disney a significant tax break
as a result, because apparently no one thought this through before acting.

https://twitter.com/npapantoniswftv/status/1517272880882585602?s=21&t=Z9kvXL-XB5IryHVlEogMnA

tl;dr: With Disney’s improvement district dissolved, all that district’s
debt and cost of providing services, which Disney was paying through the
improvement district, will be now absorbed by the counties where that
district was.

In other words taxes and debt that Disney was responsible for will now
become the responsibility of Orange and Osceola county taxpayers.

Smooth move. Sure owned those libs.

--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian,
liberal personality.” — Altie

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 2:32:15 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
> Don’t even consider the fact that Florida changed state law to exact
> revenge on a specific corporation for merely disagreeing with them.
>
> Consider their total incompetence in giving Disney a significant tax break
> as a result, because apparently no one thought this through before acting..
>
> https://twitter.com/npapantoniswftv/status/1517272880882585602?s=21&t=Z9kvXL-XB5IryHVlEogMnA
>
> tl;dr: With Disney’s improvement district dissolved, all that district’s
> debt and cost of providing services, which Disney was paying through the
> improvement district, will be now absorbed by the counties where that
> district was.
>
> In other words taxes and debt that Disney was responsible for will now
> become the responsibility of Orange and Osceola county taxpayers.
>
> Smooth move. Sure owned those libs.
>

I agree that Florida's reaction to a policy spat was stupid. But I'm guessing that the tax revenue from taxing Disney will more than make of for the debt service and infrastructure requirements.

Doug

Emperor Wonko the Sane <doug@sorensensdomain.net> wrote:
> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 2:32:15 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
>> Dont even consider the fact that Florida changed state law to exact
>> revenge on a specific corporation for merely disagreeing with them.
>>
>> Consider their total incompetence in giving Disney a significant tax break
>> as a result, because apparently no one thought this through before acting.
>>
>> https://twitter.com/npapantoniswftv/status/1517272880882585602?s!&t=Z9kvXL-XB5IryHVlEogMnA
>>
>>
>> tl;dr: With Disneys improvement district dissolved, all that districts
>> debt and cost of providing services, which Disney was paying through the
>> improvement district, will be now absorbed by the counties where that
>> district was.
>>
>> In other words taxes and debt that Disney was responsible for will now
>> become the responsibility of Orange and Osceola county taxpayers.
>>
>> Smooth move. Sure owned those libs.
>>
>
> I agree that Florida's reaction to a policy spat was stupid. But I'm
> guessing that the tax revenue from taxing Disney will more than make of
> for the debt service and infrastructure requirements.
>
> Doug
>

What tax revenue? Disney was already paying normal property taxes in the
counties. The improvement district taxes were on top of that and will
vanish with the district. Disney will pay less and county taxpayers will
have to make up for it.

--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian,
liberal personality.” — Altie

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 6:07:25 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
> Emperor Wonko the Sane <do...@sorensensdomain.net> wrote:
> > On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 2:32:15 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
> >> Don t even consider the fact that Florida changed state law to exact
> >> revenge on a specific corporation for merely disagreeing with them.
> >>
> >> Consider their total incompetence in giving Disney a significant tax break
> >> as a result, because apparently no one thought this through before acting.
> >>
> >> https://twitter.com/npapantoniswftv/status/1517272880882585602?s!&t=Z9kvXL-XB5IryHVlEogMnA
> >>
> >>
> >> tl;dr: With Disney s improvement district dissolved, all that district s
> >> debt and cost of providing services, which Disney was paying through the
> >> improvement district, will be now absorbed by the counties where that
> >> district was.
> >>
> >> In other words taxes and debt that Disney was responsible for will now
> >> become the responsibility of Orange and Osceola county taxpayers.
> >>
> >> Smooth move. Sure owned those libs.
> >>
> >
> > I agree that Florida's reaction to a policy spat was stupid. But I'm
> > guessing that the tax revenue from taxing Disney will more than make of
> > for the debt service and infrastructure requirements.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> What tax revenue? Disney was already paying normal property taxes in the
> counties. The improvement district taxes were on top of that and will
> vanish with the district. Disney will pay less and county taxpayers will
> have to make up for it.

A tax district that increases taxes? That doesn't make any sense.

Doug

On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 23:07:21 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:

>Emperor Wonko the Sane <doug@sorensensdomain.net> wrote:
>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 2:32:15 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
>>> Dont even consider the fact that Florida changed state law to exact
>>> revenge on a specific corporation for merely disagreeing with them.
>>>
>>> Consider their total incompetence in giving Disney a significant tax break
>>> as a result, because apparently no one thought this through before acting.
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/npapantoniswftv/status/1517272880882585602?s!&t=Z9kvXL-XB5IryHVlEogMnA
>>>
>>>
>>> tl;dr: With Disneys improvement district dissolved, all that districts
>>> debt and cost of providing services, which Disney was paying through the
>>> improvement district, will be now absorbed by the counties where that
>>> district was.
>>>
>>> In other words taxes and debt that Disney was responsible for will now
>>> become the responsibility of Orange and Osceola county taxpayers.
>>>
>>> Smooth move. Sure owned those libs.
>>>
>>
>> I agree that Florida's reaction to a policy spat was stupid. But I'm
>> guessing that the tax revenue from taxing Disney will more than make of
>> for the debt service and infrastructure requirements.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>
>What tax revenue? Disney was already paying normal property taxes in the
>counties. The improvement district taxes were on top of that and will
>vanish with the district. Disney will pay less and county taxpayers will
>have to make up for it.

That's with current taxes and assumes no changes and that the counties will do nothing
about new taxes or rates. There are more ways for counties to tax than residential property
tax. There will certainly be a period of adjustment, but you can be sure Disney will be paying
when the smoke clears.

Disney loses quite a bit. Right now they are completely autonomous. Florida author Carl Hiaasen
has called them a "Vatican With Mouse Ears". They can build whatever they want and to whatever standards they
want, they could build a casino, a nuke plant, anything, and at will. With the change, Disney won't be able to fart
without a county permit and will no longer be able to issue tax free bonds, making new debt less attractive and
more expensive. It was issues with Anaheim that made Disney want the special district in the first place, and there are
many who think a corporation should not also be a government.

It's beside the point, but why should a large corporation take a public stand that first graders should be taught
"gender identiity" and what gays are? There are actually idiots that think children should be taught that they
should question and decide what sex the want to be, never mind what they thought they were born as. DeSantis is right,
this is "wokeness" gone way too far. Politics and indoctrination have no place in school, especially elementary school. Kids
should be free to be kids.

Emperor Wonko the Sane <doug@sorensensdomain.net> wrote:
> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 6:07:25 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
>> Emperor Wonko the Sane <do...@sorensensdomain.net> wrote:
>>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 2:32:15 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
>>>> Don t even consider the fact that Florida changed state law to exact
>>>> revenge on a specific corporation for merely disagreeing with them.
>>>>
>>>> Consider their total incompetence in giving Disney a significant tax break
>>>> as a result, because apparently no one thought this through before acting.
>>>>
>>>> https://twitter.com/npapantoniswftv/status/1517272880882585602?s!&t=Z9kvXL-XB5IryHVlEogMnA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> tl;dr: With Disney s improvement district dissolved, all that district s
>>>> debt and cost of providing services, which Disney was paying through the
>>>> improvement district, will be now absorbed by the counties where that
>>>> district was.
>>>>
>>>> In other words taxes and debt that Disney was responsible for will now
>>>> become the responsibility of Orange and Osceola county taxpayers.
>>>>
>>>> Smooth move. Sure owned those libs.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree that Florida's reaction to a policy spat was stupid. But I'm
>>> guessing that the tax revenue from taxing Disney will more than make of
>>> for the debt service and infrastructure requirements.
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>> What tax revenue? Disney was already paying normal property taxes in the
>> counties. The improvement district taxes were on top of that and will
>> vanish with the district. Disney will pay less and county taxpayers will
>> have to make up for it.
>
> A tax district that increases taxes? That doesn't make any sense.

That’s exactly what tax districts are.

There are downtown improvement tax districts all over the country which
levy extra taxes on downtown areas for nicer streets, etc.

In rural areas there are fire tax districts which levy extra taxes on areas
to pay for fire protection. I lived in one for nearly 20 years.

And in Florida there are numerous improvement districts (Disney is far from
the only one, The Villages is also one for example) that levy extra taxes
for specific improvements.

The main advantage that Disney is losing is control. In the improvement
district they levy taxes on themselves but they control how it’s spent and
they control their own permitting and improvements.

The counties will pick up the financial obligations. Disney as a county
taxpayer will still contribute but the burden will spread across two
counties instead of being theirs alone so they will pay less. And Disney
will now have to work with county planning and permitting departments to do
what they want. As others have said Disney will still get its way but it
will take longer.

--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian,
liberal personality.” — Altie

<joe@mich.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 23:07:21 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Emperor Wonko the Sane <doug@sorensensdomain.net> wrote:
>>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 2:32:15 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
>>>> Dont even consider the fact that Florida changed state law to exact
>>>> revenge on a specific corporation for merely disagreeing with them.
>>>>
>>>> Consider their total incompetence in giving Disney a significant tax break
>>>> as a result, because apparently no one thought this through before acting.
>>>>
>>>> https://twitter.com/npapantoniswftv/status/1517272880882585602?s!&t=Z9kvXL-XB5IryHVlEogMnA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> tl;dr: With Disneys improvement district dissolved, all that districts
>>>> debt and cost of providing services, which Disney was paying through the
>>>> improvement district, will be now absorbed by the counties where that
>>>> district was.
>>>>
>>>> In other words taxes and debt that Disney was responsible for will now
>>>> become the responsibility of Orange and Osceola county taxpayers.
>>>>
>>>> Smooth move. Sure owned those libs.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree that Florida's reaction to a policy spat was stupid. But I'm
>>> guessing that the tax revenue from taxing Disney will more than make of
>>> for the debt service and infrastructure requirements.
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>
>> What tax revenue? Disney was already paying normal property taxes in the
>> counties. The improvement district taxes were on top of that and will
>> vanish with the district. Disney will pay less and county taxpayers will
>> have to make up for it.
>
> That's with current taxes and assumes no changes and that the counties will do nothing
> about new taxes or rates.

The counties can certainly choose not to give Disney the same level of
services it gives itself but there is nothing they can do to reduce the
cost of the debt obligations being passed onto them.

> There are more ways for counties to tax than residential property
> tax.

Well this varies by state and from I know in FL counties have very little
flexibility in this area.

> There will certainly be a period of adjustment, but you can be sure Disney will be paying
> when the smoke clears.
>
> Disney loses quite a bit. Right now they are completely autonomous.
> Florida author Carl Hiaasen
> has called them a "Vatican With Mouse Ears". They can build whatever they
> want and to whatever standards they
> want, they could build a casino, a nuke plant, anything, and at will.
> With the change, Disney won't be able to fart
> without a county permit and will no longer be able to issue tax free
> bonds, making new debt less attractive and
> more expensive. It was issues with Anaheim that made Disney want the
> special district in the first place, and there are
> many who think a corporation should not also be a government.

I also don’t think a corporation should also be a government but there’s
nothing special about Disney’s. There are dozens of these districts across
Florida including one controlled by the developers of The Villages, home of
the FL GOP base. Get rid of all of them, fine with me. But to get rid of
one because you’re pissed about what a corporation said? What happened to
the GOP view that corporations have free speech rights?

--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian,
liberal personality.” — Altie

On 4/23/2022 11:28 AM, xyzzy wrote:
> In rural areas there are fire tax districts which levy extra taxes on areas
> to pay for fire protection. I lived in one for nearly 20 years.

We have a fire millage that is voted on every five years. It has never
been turned down. It has allowed us to get equipment for our fire
rescue department and in the years with no equipment purchases we were
able to take operations funding from the fire account, which freed up
about $500,000 over 5 years that we could use to put crushed limestone
down on some of the higher traveled gravel roads. It's no more than 1 mill.

--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

Ken Olson <kolson@freedomnet.org> wrote:
> On 4/23/2022 11:28 AM, xyzzy wrote:
>> In rural areas there are fire tax districts which levy extra taxes on areas
>> to pay for fire protection. I lived in one for nearly 20 years.
>
>
> We have a fire millage that is voted on every five years. It has never
> been turned down. It has allowed us to get equipment for our fire
> rescue department and in the years with no equipment purchases we were
> able to take operations funding from the fire account, which freed up
> about $500,000 over 5 years that we could use to put crushed limestone
> down on some of the higher traveled gravel roads. It's no more than 1 mill.
>

In NC county commissioners have to approve the millage requested by the
fire district. They always do, because no one wants to be accused of voting
against fire protection and if people complain the rate is too high the
county commissioners can shrug and say take it up with the (unelected)
leaders of the Fire district.

That results in some pretty luxurious fire stations with some pretty
expensive new equipment that seldom if ever gets used, even in poorer rural
areas. It’s one of the reasons fire departments roll trucks on just about
every 911 call whether they are needed or not, to juice the call numbers
and justify their budgets.

I’d even argue that because of this dynamic fire districts are the least
accountable taxing units in NC, by far.

--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian,
liberal personality.” — Altie

On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:28:03 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:

><joe@mich.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 23:07:21 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Emperor Wonko the Sane <doug@sorensensdomain.net> wrote:
>>>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 2:32:15 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:

>>>>>
>>>>> In other words taxes and debt that Disney was responsible for will now
>>>>> become the responsibility of Orange and Osceola county taxpayers.

>>> I agree that Florida's reaction to a policy spat was stupid. But I'm
>>> guessing that the tax revenue from taxing Disney will more than make of
>>> for the debt service and infrastructure requirements.
>>>
>>>

>> What tax revenue?

New sales taxes.

>>>Disney was already paying normal property taxes in the
>>> counties. The improvement district taxes were on top of that and will
>>> vanish with the district. Disney will pay less and county taxpayers will
>>> have to make up for it.
>>
>> That's with current taxes and assumes no changes and that the counties will do nothing
>> about new taxes or rates.
>
>The counties can certainly choose not to give Disney the same level of
>services it gives itself but there is nothing they can do to reduce the
>cost of the debt obligations being passed onto them.

They can't reduce the obligations, but they can certainly increase taxes.

>> There are more ways for counties to tax than residential property
>> tax.
>
>Well this varies by state and from I know in FL counties have very little
>flexibility in this area.

Florida allows local option taxes. The city of Palm Bay, for example, imposed a 1% sales tax
on a new shopping center to pay for the cost of roads going to the shopping center and
surrounding areas.This is a sales tax on sales at the shopping center only, not a city wide sales tax.
The counties can impose a tourist impact sales tax. They can impose a sales tax on hotel rentals of 6%.
I think there's a few more also. Disney World brings in $7 billion a year. Don't know the details of the $1 B
in bonds, but I bet the bonds can easily be serviced by taxing Disney's $7B in sales.

>
>I also don’t think a corporation should also be a government but there’s
>nothing special about Disney’s. There are dozens of these districts across
>Florida including one controlled by the developers of The Villages, home of
>the FL GOP base. Get rid of all of them, fine with me. But to get rid of
>one because you’re pissed about what a corporation said?

Most of the special purpose districts exist for a single purpose. Disney's is pretending to
be a city when it is actually a profit making public corporation reaping the benefits of a
municipality. No other theme park gets to play this game. However, The Villages actually is
a municipality reaping the benefits of a municipality and run by managers elected by the
residents. Although it's privately owned, the owners benefit from the sale of their land,
and The Villages could become a real city and the owners wouldn't notice much difference.

>What happened to
>the GOP view that corporations have free speech rights?

I do not believe public corporations should have free speech rights on social issues
because the employees and stock holders have diverse opinions and the corporation cannot
speak for all of them. I do think corporations have the right to support political candidates
that favor issues that are good for the corporation since that would be serving all the employees and stockholders.

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 2:11:33 PM UTC-7, j...@mich.com wrote:

> I do not believe public corporations should have free speech rights on social issues
> because the employees and stock holders have diverse opinions and the corporation cannot
> speak for all of them. I do think corporations have the right to support political candidates
> that favor issues that are good for the corporation since that would be serving all the employees and stockholders.

Citizens United, which allows unlimited donations in the name of the company, was decided on the basis of free speech. I find your statements contradictory.

On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 11:57:35 AM UTC-5, Eric Ramon wrote:
> On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 2:11:33 PM UTC-7, j...@mich.com wrote:
>
> > I do not believe public corporations should have free speech rights on social issues
> > because the employees and stock holders have diverse opinions and the corporation cannot
> > speak for all of them. I do think corporations have the right to support political candidates
> > that favor issues that are good for the corporation since that would be serving all the employees and stockholders.
> Citizens United, which allows unlimited donations in the name of the company, was decided on the basis of free speech. I find your statements contradictory.

I do too. Employees and stockholders have diverse opinions, not only about social issues, but also about which political candidates favor issues that are good for the employees and stockholders of the corporation.

On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 10:19:00 -0700 (PDT), Johnny RSFCootball <1jay1miller1970@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 11:57:35 AM UTC-5, Eric Ramon wrote:
>> On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 2:11:33 PM UTC-7, j...@mich.com wrote:
>>
>> > I do not believe public corporations should have free speech rights on social issues
>> > because the employees and stock holders have diverse opinions and the corporation cannot
>> > speak for all of them. I do think corporations have the right to support political candidates
>> > that favor issues that are good for the corporation since that would be serving all the employees and stockholders.
>> Citizens United, which allows unlimited donations in the name of the company, was decided on the basis of free speech. I find your statements contradictory.
>
>I do too. Employees and stockholders have diverse opinions, not only about social issues, but also about which political candidates favor issues that are good for the employees and stockholders of the corporation.

I was thinking of simple business issues such as double taxation of dividends. However, I can probably go along with this. As for Citizens United,
it's led to massive non-disclosed contributions and corruption. Political candidates, especially at the national level, are almost at the level of
being bought and paid for. It needs to go, or heavily modified, and term limits implemented.

On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 12:58:28 PM UTC-5, j...@mich.com wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 10:19:00 -0700 (PDT), Johnny RSFCootball <1jay1mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 11:57:35 AM UTC-5, Eric Ramon wrote:
> >> On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 2:11:33 PM UTC-7, j...@mich.com wrote:
> >>
> >> > I do not believe public corporations should have free speech rights on social issues
> >> > because the employees and stock holders have diverse opinions and the corporation cannot
> >> > speak for all of them. I do think corporations have the right to support political candidates
> >> > that favor issues that are good for the corporation since that would be serving all the employees and stockholders.
> >> Citizens United, which allows unlimited donations in the name of the company, was decided on the basis of free speech. I find your statements contradictory.
> >
> >I do too. Employees and stockholders have diverse opinions, not only about social issues, but also about which political candidates favor issues that are good for the employees and stockholders of the corporation.
> I was thinking of simple business issues such as double taxation of dividends. However, I can probably go along with this. As for Citizens United,
> it's led to massive non-disclosed contributions and corruption. Political candidates, especially at the national level, are almost at the level of
> being bought and paid for. It needs to go, or heavily modified, and term limits implemented.

At the very least employees and stockholders shouldn’t be grouped together in terms of business issues. But even within those groups there are going to be differing opinions. Not everything is about dividend tax rates..

So how long until it's illegal to be LGBT in Florida?

Before or after the midterms?

Mike (I'm thinking after, but would not be surprised if it happens this year.)

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 3:32:15 PM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
> Don’t even consider the fact that Florida changed state law to exact
> revenge on a specific corporation for merely disagreeing with them.
>
> Consider their total incompetence in giving Disney a significant tax break
> as a result, because apparently no one thought this through before acting..
>
> https://twitter.com/npapantoniswftv/status/1517272880882585602?s=21&t=Z9kvXL-XB5IryHVlEogMnA
>
> tl;dr: With Disney’s improvement district dissolved, all that district’s
> debt and cost of providing services, which Disney was paying through the
> improvement district, will be now absorbed by the counties where that
> district was.
>
> In other words taxes and debt that Disney was responsible for will now
> become the responsibility of Orange and Osceola county taxpayers.
>
> Smooth move. Sure owned those libs.
>
>
> --
> “I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian,
> liberal personality.” — Altie

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 3:32:15 PM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
> Don’t even consider the fact that Florida changed state law to exact
> revenge on a specific corporation for merely disagreeing with them.
>
> Consider their total incompetence in giving Disney a significant tax break
> as a result, because apparently no one thought this through before acting..
>
> https://twitter.com/npapantoniswftv/status/1517272880882585602?s=21&t=Z9kvXL-XB5IryHVlEogMnA
>
> tl;dr: With Disney’s improvement district dissolved, all that district’s
> debt and cost of providing services, which Disney was paying through the
> improvement district, will be now absorbed by the counties where that
> district was.
>
> In other words taxes and debt that Disney was responsible for will now
> become the responsibility of Orange and Osceola county taxpayers.
>
> Smooth move. Sure owned those libs.

Well, it's fun to watch "libs," including a Bernie Sanders advisor, rush to
the defense of Corporate America.

-TE

"Jake Tapper, Without a Mask, Asks Amy Klobuchar If She Felt Her Life Was In Danger When Ted Cruz Spoke To Her Without a Mask"

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 2:32:15 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
> Don’t even consider the fact that Florida changed state law to exact
> revenge on a specific corporation for merely disagreeing with them.
>
> Consider their total incompetence in giving Disney a significant tax break
> as a result, because apparently no one thought this through before acting..
>
> https://twitter.com/npapantoniswftv/status/1517272880882585602?s=21&t=Z9kvXL-XB5IryHVlEogMnA
>
> tl;dr: With Disney’s improvement district dissolved, all that district’s
> debt and cost of providing services, which Disney was paying through the
> improvement district, will be now absorbed by the counties where that
> district was.
>
> In other words taxes and debt that Disney was responsible for will now
> become the responsibility of Orange and Osceola county taxpayers.
>
> Smooth move. Sure owned those libs.
>

A thought: what if Disney and Desantis are colluding on this. Say Disney contacted Desantis and said "we want 'help' from the taxpayers and you want to look like a tough culture warrior. Why don't you revoke the special district which will dump our debt on the local counties and you look can say you did it because of our politics."

Doug