....that the "six conference champions" rule means that at least one of the "who cares" conferences is guaranteed a spot in the tournament?

Also note that only conference champions get first-round byes, and the quarter-finals will not be at home sites, but, presumably, at the existing six CFP bowls.

And what happens when one or more of the Power 5 conferences goes under, at least in football? Do they keep the "at least six conference champions" rule?

Follow-up: I just saw what appears to be a detailed proposal of how it works. One of the rules is, the teams with first-round byes will be placed into bowls taking existing contracts into account, so if, say, the #1 team is from the SEC, it plays its quarter-final in the Sugar Bowl. This means that, if the ACC gets a team in the top 4, then, most likely, two of the Cotton, Fiesta, and Peach bowls will be semi-finals - and don't expect the Rose or Sugar to ever be a semi-final game. Somehow, I don't see this part happening...

Where's the edit button on this thing?
Anyway, I just realized...there's no possible way the Rose or Sugar won't be semi-finals 1/3 of the time. They have to set up the semi-finals in advance, the way they do now, because the cities need time to prepare. The CFP isn't going to tell, say, the Sugar Bowl, "Uh, yeah, we need you to hold two dates open for us, depending on whether it's a quarter-final or semi-final.." The "#1 seed goes to the Sugar Bowl if it's in the SEC or Big 12" thing only applies if the Sugar is already designated as a quarter-final.

On Friday, September 2, 2022 at 5:56:21 PM UTC-4, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:
> ...that the "six conference champions" rule means that at least one of the "who cares" conferences is guaranteed a spot in the tournament?
>
> Also note that only conference champions get first-round byes, and the quarter-finals will not be at home sites, but, presumably, at the existing six CFP bowls.
>
> And what happens when one or more of the Power 5 conferences goes under, at least in football? Do they keep the "at least six conference champions" rule?

To be honest, I don't know yet if this 12 team playoff format will end up being a
good or bad thing for college football. I'm thinking - maybe it couldn't
hurt.

However, what I definitely do not like, and what I think will end up hurting
college football is this "N I L" thing. Especially if the promoters get
their way and it gets extended to high school football players.

Irish Mike

> However, what I definitely do not like, and what I think will end up hurting
> college football is this "N I L" thing. Especially if the promoters get
> their way and it gets extended to high school football players.

It already has. All of the players at St. John Bosco HS, one of California's (and the country's, for that matter) top high school football teams have entered into an NIL deal with some "sports performance and technology company." The school is going to great pains to say, "We have nothing to do with this! This is a private matter between the players and the company." (Most likely translation: "We're not providing any quid pro quo, or using the company as a proxy to pay the players.")

https://www.maxpreps.com/news/-cgo4eQLrUyA3mwITrPJoA/high-school-football-players-for-top-rated-st-john-bosco-enter-into-first-ever-team-wide-nil-deal..htm

On Friday, September 2, 2022 at 2:56:21 PM UTC-7, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:
> ...that the "six conference champions" rule means that at least one of the "who cares" conferences is guaranteed a spot in the tournament?

That's not this thing's major problem. I think you could easily see that, by the time this takes effect, there are only two real conferences and the other even three Power Five conferences might fall into "Who Cares?" status.

> Also note that only conference champions get first-round byes, and the quarter-finals will not be at home sites, but, presumably, at the existing six CFP bowls.

Yep. (I almost misread that.) That would be exactly correct.

> And what happens when one or more of the Power 5 conferences goes under, at least in football? Do they keep the "at least six conference champions" rule?

You also think that's going to happen by 2025, am I correct?

Mike

On Friday, September 2, 2022 at 4:28:47 PM UTC-7, Irish Mike wrote:

> However, what I definitely do not like, and what I think will end up hurting
> college football is this "N I L" thing. Especially if the promoters get
> their way and it gets extended to high school football players.

Why not? It takes the reality of "college-pro" sports and brings it out into the open.

Mike

> > ...that the "six conference champions" rule means that at least one of the "who cares" conferences is guaranteed a spot in the tournament?
> That's not this thing's major problem. I think you could easily see that, by the time this takes effect, there are only two real conferences and the other even three Power Five conferences might fall into "Who Cares?" status.

Having a considerable number of "who cares" conference champions doesn't seem to hurt the basketball tournament any.

> You also think that's going to happen by 2025, am I correct?

Why not? Three years is plenty of time to work out the details.
Detail #1: when do they actually play the games? Having the semi-finals around New Year's Day doesn't leave enough time for the first two rounds, unless they can talk West Point and Annapolis into moving Army-Navy back two weeks (it can't be the previous week in case Navy makes it into the AAC championship game).
Detail #2: can they get the bowls to agree to a schedule?
Detail #3: how do they handle the possibility that Navy wins the AAC and has a high-enough ranking to get in, but then loses to Army? (They could do what they do now - the committee has a vote to decide who gets the non-Power 5 spot - but that doesn't give the replacement team much time to get ready..)

On Saturday, September 3, 2022 at 7:07:04 AM UTC-7, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:
> > > ...that the "six conference champions" rule means that at least one of the "who cares" conferences is guaranteed a spot in the tournament?
> > That's not this thing's major problem. I think you could easily see that, by the time this takes effect, there are only two real conferences and the other even three Power Five conferences might fall into "Who Cares?" status.
> Having a considerable number of "who cares" conference champions doesn't seem to hurt the basketball tournament any.

The only reason the basketball tournament survives as it is is that, for at least the first weekend, the concept of "March Madness" is still quite relevant. Maryland-Baltimore County, anyone?

> > You also think that's going to happen by 2025, am I correct?
> Why not? Three years is plenty of time to work out the details.

They're actually trying to fast-track it into the current TV deal and make it 2024.

> Detail #1: when do they actually play the games? Having the semi-finals around New Year's Day doesn't leave enough time for the first two rounds, unless they can talk West Point and Annapolis into moving Army-Navy back two weeks (it can't be the previous week in case Navy makes it into the AAC championship game).

They're saying 2nd-3rd wk December for Rd 1. Since we have little pretense these are students, I would have no problem moving back the CFP title match to Super Bowl Saturday Night.

(Or, comparatively, the College World Series into late June, as an example which already exists...)

> Detail #2: can they get the bowls to agree to a schedule?

That's probably the big buggy-boo.

> Detail #3: how do they handle the possibility that Navy wins the AAC and has a high-enough ranking to get in, but then loses to Army? (They could do what they do now - the committee has a vote to decide who gets the non-Power 5 spot - but that doesn't give the replacement team much time to get ready.)

They'd probably announce that on the selection show if they considered that an issue, which is very possible.

Mike

> > > You also think that's going to happen by 2025, am I correct?
> > Why not? Three years is plenty of time to work out the details.
> They're actually trying to fast-track it into the current TV deal and make it 2024.

2024 is "by 2025," the last time I looked. Or did you mean that I think that it won't happen until 2025?

> > Detail #1: when do they actually play the games? Having the semi-finals around New Year's Day doesn't leave enough time for the first two rounds, unless they can talk West Point and Annapolis into moving Army-Navy back two weeks (it can't be the previous week in case Navy makes it into the AAC championship game).
> They're saying 2nd-3rd wk December for Rd 1. Since we have little pretense these are students, I would have no problem moving back the CFP title match to Super Bowl Saturday Night.

I am assuming the week before that; there's less chance of the Super Bowl hype stealing any of its thunder that way.
Then again, when do they play the semi-finals? I am assuming the quarter-finals would be on/around New Year's Day. How much of a layoff between games is too long?

Meanwhile, my brother brought up another issue; what happens if, say, Alabama and Georgia end up ranked 1-2 (which won't happen, since I doubt the SEC championship game loser wouldn't drop down to at least #3)? Since only conference champions get the top 4 seeds, Georgia ends up as the #5 seed, which means you have the possibility of the #1 and #2-ranked teams meeting in the semi-finals instead of the championship game. I suppose the playoff seeding protocol could include "weasel words" like, "The committee may move a team in the 5-12 seeds up or down one seed" which is already in the basketball tournament bracket procedure, in which case Georgia would be seeded #6.

On Saturday, September 3, 2022 at 8:16:32 AM UTC-7, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:
> > > > You also think that's going to happen by 2025, am I correct?
> > > Why not? Three years is plenty of time to work out the details.
> > They're actually trying to fast-track it into the current TV deal and make it 2024.
> 2024 is "by 2025," the last time I looked. Or did you mean that I think that it won't happen until 2025?

No, they specifically said they were trying to fast track it before the end of the current TV deal for the CFP.

Nothing to do with you.

> > > Detail #1: when do they actually play the games? Having the semi-finals around New Year's Day doesn't leave enough time for the first two rounds, unless they can talk West Point and Annapolis into moving Army-Navy back two weeks (it can't be the previous week in case Navy makes it into the AAC championship game).
> > They're saying 2nd-3rd wk December for Rd 1. Since we have little pretense these are students, I would have no problem moving back the CFP title match to Super Bowl Saturday Night.
> I am assuming the week before that; there's less chance of the Super Bowl hype stealing any of its thunder that way.

That's only because they've done a very poor job actually marketing the CFP.. They could've made this into March Madness for football if they really wanted to make the effort to do so.

> Then again, when do they play the semi-finals? I am assuming the quarter-finals would be on/around New Year's Day. How much of a layoff between games is too long?

Remember the BCS championship, when it was only 1 vs. 2? :)
> Meanwhile, my brother brought up another issue; what happens if, say, Alabama and Georgia end up ranked 1-2 (which won't happen, since I doubt the SEC championship game loser wouldn't drop down to at least #3)? Since only conference champions get the top 4 seeds, Georgia ends up as the #5 seed, which means you have the possibility of the #1 and #2-ranked teams meeting in the semi-finals instead of the championship game. I suppose the playoff seeding protocol could include "weasel words" like, "The committee may move a team in the 5-12 seeds up or down one seed" which is already in the basketball tournament bracket procedure, in which case Georgia would be seeded #6..

The SEC would probably want to demand that, but that is a very good point.

Mike

On 2022-09-02, The NOTBCS Guy <don.p.del.grande@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...that the "six conference champions" rule means that at least one
> of the "who cares" conferences is guaranteed a spot in the
> tournament?

They made their conference relevant by beating enough teams in OOC
to make it part of the top 6. That is the part of this system I like
best.

>
> Also note that only conference champions get first-round byes, and
> the quarter-finals will not be at home sites, but, presumably, at
> the existing six CFP bowls.
>
> And what happens when one or more of the Power 5 conferences goes
> under, at least in football? Do they keep the "at least six
> conference champions" rule?

Sure, Big East/Mountain West/Conference USA next man up. Gives
the lower conferences an incentive to improve.

--
Any man who is under 30, and is not liberal, has not heart; and any man
who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has not brains.
-- unknown, often falsely attributed to Winston Churchill

Let me see if I have this right (I need to ask after claiming on Facebook that Bowling Green was in FCS...):

The top 12 teams in the Coaches Poll are currently:
*Alabama
Georgia
*Ohio State
*Clemson
Michigan
Texas A&M
*Oklahoma
Baylor
Notre Dame
Oklahoma State
Michigan State
*USC
Teams marked with an asterisk are the highest-ranked in their conferences, and will be assumed to be their conference champions for the moment. The sixth highest-ranked conference champion is Houston, which would be 28th in the poll if it went that far down.
The seedings are:
1 - Alabama
2 - Ohio State
3 - Clemson
4 - Oklahoma
5 - Georgia
6 - Michigan
7 - Texas A&M
8 - Baylor
9 - Notre Dame
10 - Oklahoma State
11 - USC
12 - Houston
and the bracket is
Notre Dame @ Baylor; winner vs Alabama
Houston @ Georgia; winner vs Oklahoma
Oklahoma State @ Texas A&M; winner vs Ohio State
USC @ Michigan; winner vs Clemson
Top two winners are in one semi-final; bottom two are in the other
which means the two semi-finals can end up being #1 Alabama - #2 Georgia and #3 Ohio State - #5 Michigan.
"That's easy enough to fix; swap Michigan and Georgia." Yes, let's put the #5 team ahead of the #2 team.

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 8:24:31 AM UTC-7, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:

> Notre Dame @ Baylor; winner vs Alabama
> Houston @ Georgia; winner vs Oklahoma
> Oklahoma State @ Texas A&M; winner vs Ohio State
> USC @ Michigan; winner vs Clemson

And now you have the answer as to why this 12-team playoff is an absolute non-starter.

You'll have two conferences, each with two divisions. Eight team national playoff: A1 vs. B2 and B2 vs. A1 in each of the two conferences, conference titles, national championship.

Mike

> You'll have two conferences, each with two divisions. Eight team national playoff: A1 vs. B2 and B2 vs. A1 in each of the two conferences, conference titles, national championship.

Except that, assuming Alabama and Georgia remain in the same conference but different divisions, you've still got the "1 vs 2 in the semi-finals" problem.

The closest thing to an easy fix in my scenario: swap Michigan and Georgia. I was going to suggest a rule preventing the top two teams in a conference from being in the same half of the bracket, but that becomes a problem with what to do with Baylor.

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 2:38:30 PM UTC-7, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:
> > You'll have two conferences, each with two divisions. Eight team national playoff: A1 vs. B2 and B2 vs. A1 in each of the two conferences, conference titles, national championship.
> Except that, assuming Alabama and Georgia remain in the same conference but different divisions, you've still got the "1 vs 2 in the semi-finals" problem.

You're kinda stuck. That's what happens when you have one real conference.

Mike