We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to run out of gas sooner rather than later.

I think we need to incentivize investment in research - say, a set of prizes to the first companies that can:
(a) Fly an electric-powered plane from PHNL (Honolulu) to KLAX (Los Angeles) with 10,000 kg of freight (simulating 100 overweight passengers) in under 6 hours;
(b) Drive a truck filled with goods, or their equivalent weight, along I-80 from Omaha to Sacramento with an average speed matching what trucks can do now - the point being that it has to be able to make it over both the Rockies and the Sierra Nevadas, rather than going around them because the engines aren't powerful enough.

On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy <don.p.del.grande@gmail.com> wrote:

>We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>
What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?

> >We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to run out of gas sooner rather than later.
> >
> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?

Presumably, by the time we figure out how to make an electric battery that's powerful enough to get a plane from, say, New York to London nonstop, we will have solved the problem of solar power conversion efficiency as well. Until then, there's still plenty of gasoline. I'm not saying that we need to get rid of all gasoline-powered cars and trucks (and trains, while we're at it) immediately.

On 8/21/2023 11:33 AM, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:
> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>
> I think we need to incentivize investment in research - say, a set of prizes to the first companies that can:
> (a) Fly an electric-powered plane from PHNL (Honolulu) to KLAX (Los Angeles) with 10,000 kg of freight (simulating 100 overweight passengers) in under 6 hours;
> (b) Drive a truck filled with goods, or their equivalent weight, along I-80 from Omaha to Sacramento with an average speed matching what trucks can do now - the point being that it has to be able to make it over both the Rockies and the Sierra Nevadas, rather than going around them because the engines aren't powerful enough.

Electric engine power capabilities isn't the problem, battery capacity
is. Put the corporate tax rate at 0% and watch the innovation spring forth.
Ken
--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

Слава Україні та НАТО

Härlighet till Sverige

<joe@mich.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy
> <don.p.del.grande@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to
>> run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>>
> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?
>

Even if it’s 100% coal they are still better for the environment than gas
cars because of the efficiency of grid power plants compared to ICE
engines.

--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian,
liberal personality.” — Altie

On 8/22/2023 9:48 AM, xyzzy wrote:
> <joe@mich.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy
>> <don.p.del.grande@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to
>>> run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>>>
>> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?
>>
>
> Even if it’s 100% coal they are still better for the environment than gas
> cars because of the efficiency of grid power plants compared to ICE
> engines.
>

not until they figure how to effectively recycle/dispose of depleted
batteries

On 2023-08-22, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
><joe@mich.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy
>> <don.p.del.grande@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to
>>> run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>>>
>> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?
>>
>
> Even if it’s 100% coal they are still better for the environment than gas
> cars because of the efficiency of grid power plants compared to ICE
> engines.
>

This ignores multiple factors such as greater weight of vehicles, increased
use of natural resources, cost of new infrastructure needed for widespread
adoption, etc.

--
"The secret of a good sermon is to have a good beginning and a good
ending, then having the two as close together as possible."
-- George Burns

Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
> On 2023-08-22, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <joe@mich.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy
>>> <don.p.del.grande@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to
>>>> run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>>>>
>>> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?
>>>
>>
>> Even if it’s 100% coal they are still better for the environment than gas
>> cars because of the efficiency of grid power plants compared to ICE
>> engines.
>>
>
> This ignores multiple factors such as greater weight of vehicles, increased
> use of natural resources, cost of new infrastructure needed for widespread
> adoption, etc.
>

No, it doesn’t. There are multiple studies on this including by the Argonne
National Lab. Because of the factors you mentioned above, EVs start out in
the hole environmentally but are positive by about 20k miles of use in the
US depending on the car model and the local grid composition.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/

--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian,
liberal personality.” — Altie

On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 17:01:06 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:

>Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-08-22, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <joe@mich.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy
>>>> <don.p.del.grande@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to
>>>>> run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>>>>>
>>>> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Even if it’s 100% coal they are still better for the environment than gas
>>> cars because of the efficiency of grid power plants compared to ICE
>>> engines.
>>>
>>
>> This ignores multiple factors such as greater weight of vehicles, increased
>> use of natural resources, cost of new infrastructure needed for widespread
>> adoption, etc.
>>
>
>No, it doesn’t. There are multiple studies on this including by the Argonne
>National Lab. Because of the factors you mentioned above, EVs start out in
>the hole environmentally but are positive by about 20k miles of use in the
>US depending on the car model and the local grid composition.
>
And if the entire world converted to renewable, green energy sources, no coal or oil and any bad stuff, zero carbon emmisions from anything in the
world anywhere, would global warming stop?

On 8/22/2023 2:42 PM, joe@mich.com wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 17:01:06 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2023-08-22, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> <joe@mich.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy
>>>>> <don.p.del.grande@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to
>>>>>> run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>>>>>>
>>>>> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Even if it’s 100% coal they are still better for the environment than gas
>>>> cars because of the efficiency of grid power plants compared to ICE
>>>> engines.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This ignores multiple factors such as greater weight of vehicles, increased
>>> use of natural resources, cost of new infrastructure needed for widespread
>>> adoption, etc.
>>>
>>
>> No, it doesn’t. There are multiple studies on this including by the Argonne
>> National Lab. Because of the factors you mentioned above, EVs start out in
>> the hole environmentally but are positive by about 20k miles of use in the
>> US depending on the car model and the local grid composition.
>>
> And if the entire world converted to renewable, green energy sources, no coal or oil and any bad stuff, zero carbon emmisions from anything in the
> world anywhere, would global warming stop?

No. We are in an inter-glacial warming period.
--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

Слава Україні та НАТО

Слава героям

Härlighet till Sverige

Glorie aan Nederland en Denemarken

On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 18:47:56 -0400, Ken Olson <kolson@freedomnet.org> wrote:

>On 8/22/2023 2:42 PM, joe@mich.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 17:01:06 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-08-22, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> <joe@mich.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy
>>>>>> <don.p.del.grande@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to
>>>>>>> run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Even if it’s 100% coal they are still better for the environment than gas
>>>>> cars because of the efficiency of grid power plants compared to ICE
>>>>> engines.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This ignores multiple factors such as greater weight of vehicles, increased
>>>> use of natural resources, cost of new infrastructure needed for widespread
>>>> adoption, etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, it doesn’t. There are multiple studies on this including by the Argonne
>>> National Lab. Because of the factors you mentioned above, EVs start out in
>>> the hole environmentally but are positive by about 20k miles of use in the
>>> US depending on the car model and the local grid composition.
>>>
>> And if the entire world converted to renewable, green energy sources, no coal or oil and any bad stuff, zero carbon emmisions from anything in the
>> world anywhere, would global warming stop?
>
>No. We are in an inter-glacial warming period.

WHAT!! Do you mean this has happened before? Glaciers have melted before? Florida and other areas have been under water before? Good heavens. Then why
all the hoopla and expense? Is it just an exercise to make lefties feel good, thinking they are doing something when they're just pissing in the wind?
Kind of like Lyndon Johnson turning off the lights in the White House to reduce the national debt?

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 10:55:42 AM UTC-7, j...@mich.com wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 18:47:56 -0400, Ken Olson <kol...@freedomnet.org> wrote:
>
> >On 8/22/2023 2:42 PM, j...@mich.com wrote:
> >> On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 17:01:06 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <cons...@duxmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 2023-08-22, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> <j...@mich.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy
> >>>>>> <don.p.de...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to
> >>>>>>> run out of gas sooner rather than later.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Even if it’s 100% coal they are still better for the environment than gas
> >>>>> cars because of the efficiency of grid power plants compared to ICE
> >>>>> engines.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> This ignores multiple factors such as greater weight of vehicles, increased
> >>>> use of natural resources, cost of new infrastructure needed for widespread
> >>>> adoption, etc.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> No, it doesn’t. There are multiple studies on this including by the Argonne
> >>> National Lab. Because of the factors you mentioned above, EVs start out in
> >>> the hole environmentally but are positive by about 20k miles of use in the
> >>> US depending on the car model and the local grid composition.
> >>>
> >> And if the entire world converted to renewable, green energy sources, no coal or oil and any bad stuff, zero carbon emmisions from anything in the
> >> world anywhere, would global warming stop?
> >
> >No. We are in an inter-glacial warming period.
> WHAT!! Do you mean this has happened before? Glaciers have melted before? Florida and other areas have been under water before? Good heavens. Then why
> all the hoopla and expense? Is it just an exercise to make lefties feel good, thinking they are doing something when they're just pissing in the wind?
> Kind of like Lyndon Johnson turning off the lights in the White House to reduce the national debt?

Never mind what the majority of scientists say.

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 11:12:10 -0700 (PDT), Eric Ramon <ramon.eric@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 10:55:42?AM UTC-7, j...@mich.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 18:47:56 -0400, Ken Olson <kol...@freedomnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> >On 8/22/2023 2:42 PM, j...@mich.com wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 17:01:06 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <cons...@duxmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> On 2023-08-22, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> <j...@mich.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy
>> >>>>>> <don.p.de...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to
>> >>>>>>> run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Even if it’s 100% coal they are still better for the environment than gas
>> >>>>> cars because of the efficiency of grid power plants compared to ICE
>> >>>>> engines.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This ignores multiple factors such as greater weight of vehicles, increased
>> >>>> use of natural resources, cost of new infrastructure needed for widespread
>> >>>> adoption, etc.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> No, it doesn’t. There are multiple studies on this including by the Argonne
>> >>> National Lab. Because of the factors you mentioned above, EVs start out in
>> >>> the hole environmentally but are positive by about 20k miles of use in the
>> >>> US depending on the car model and the local grid composition.
>> >>>
>> >> And if the entire world converted to renewable, green energy sources, no coal or oil and any bad stuff, zero carbon emmisions from anything in the
>> >> world anywhere, would global warming stop?
>> >
>> >No. We are in an inter-glacial warming period.
>> WHAT!! Do you mean this has happened before? Glaciers have melted before? Florida and other areas have been under water before? Good heavens. Then why
>> all the hoopla and expense? Is it just an exercise to make lefties feel good, thinking they are doing something when they're just pissing in the wind?
>> Kind of like Lyndon Johnson turning off the lights in the White House to reduce the national debt?
>
>Never mind what the majority of scientists say.

Didn't the majority of scientists at one time say the earth was the center of the universe? Didn't the majority of scientists at one time believe in
the luminiferous aether? Margarine was healthier than butter? The speed of gravity propagation was infinite? Gravity is always attractive and neve
repulsive? Ulcers were caused by acidity in the stomach? The Milky Way was the entire universe? etc. etc. Consenus doesn't mean correct. However, as I
said, they are correct in that the earth is getting warmer. It is. The thing is, it's been warmer before, many times. The sea levels have been much
higher, many times. Florida and coastal areas in the world are going underwater again, and there is nothing, nothing, that we can do to stop it.

If libs wanted to get concerned about a real problem, one that humans can do something about, they should put their attention on the effects of
overpopulation and the destruction of the carbon cycle and flora and fauna species by deforestation and land clearing for human expansion. That is a
real and serious issue that can destroy life. To life on earth, humans are like a growing cancer. Driving an electric car and thinking you're
contributing to saving the planet, while ignoring what overpopulation is doing, is a Don Quixote dream.
. Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder1.feed.usenet.farm!feed.usenet.farm!peer03.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx06.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: joe@mich.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Woke electric vehicles BREAK records ! !
Message-ID: <8jjeeih42omvafj4dpjj9bppsa3v6fbkbl@4ax.com>
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On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 11:12:10 -0700 (PDT), Eric Ramon <ramon.eric@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 10:55:42?AM UTC-7, j...@mich.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 18:47:56 -0400, Ken Olson <kol...@freedomnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> >On 8/22/2023 2:42 PM, j...@mich.com wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 17:01:06 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <cons...@duxmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> On 2023-08-22, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> <j...@mich.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy
>> >>>>>> <don.p.de...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to
>> >>>>>>> run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Even if it’s 100% coal they are still better for the environment than gas
>> >>>>> cars because of the efficiency of grid power plants compared to ICE
>> >>>>> engines.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This ignores multiple factors such as greater weight of vehicles, increased
>> >>>> use of natural resources, cost of new infrastructure needed for widespread
>> >>>> adoption, etc.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> No, it doesn’t. There are multiple studies on this including by the Argonne
>> >>> National Lab. Because of the factors you mentioned above, EVs start out in
>> >>> the hole environmentally but are positive by about 20k miles of use in the
>> >>> US depending on the car model and the local grid composition.
>> >>>
>> >> And if the entire world converted to renewable, green energy sources, no coal or oil and any bad stuff, zero carbon emmisions from anything in the
>> >> world anywhere, would global warming stop?
>> >
>> >No. We are in an inter-glacial warming period.
>> WHAT!! Do you mean this has happened before? Glaciers have melted before? Florida and other areas have been under water before? Good heavens. Then why
>> all the hoopla and expense? Is it just an exercise to make lefties feel good, thinking they are doing something when they're just pissing in the wind?
>> Kind of like Lyndon Johnson turning off the lights in the White House to reduce the national debt?
>
>Never mind what the majority of scientists say.

Didn't the majority of scientists at one time say the earth was the center of the universe? Didn't the majority of scientists at one time believe in
the luminiferous aether? Margarine was healthier than butter? The speed of gravity propagation was infinite? Gravity is always attractive and neve
repulsive? Ulcers were caused by acidity in the stomach? The Milky Way was the entire universe? etc. etc. Consenus doesn't mean correct. However, as I
said, they are correct in that the earth is getting warmer. It is. The thing is, it's been warmer before, many times. The sea levels have been much
higher, many times. Florida and coastal areas in the world are going underwater again, and there is nothing, nothing, that we can do to stop it.

On 2023-08-22, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
> Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-08-22, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <joe@mich.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy
>>>> <don.p.del.grande@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to
>>>>> run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>>>>>
>>>> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Even if it’s 100% coal they are still better for the environment than gas
>>> cars because of the efficiency of grid power plants compared to ICE
>>> engines.
>>>
>>
>> This ignores multiple factors such as greater weight of vehicles, increased
>> use of natural resources, cost of new infrastructure needed for widespread
>> adoption, etc.
>>
>
> No, it doesn’t. There are multiple studies on this including by the Argonne
> National Lab. Because of the factors you mentioned above, EVs start out in
> the hole environmentally but are positive by about 20k miles of use in the
> US depending on the car model and the local grid composition.
>
> https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/
>

I see no reference to the trillions of dollars worth of investment
necessary to expand the grid, build charging infrastructure, etc. And
it straight-lines the cost of resource acquisition, when we know that
there is no current path toward having enough lithium or copper to
support such a transition. And I sincerely doubt they build in the cost
of backup power and/or storage for the "renewable" energy they trumpet.

Reviewing the VISION model inputs, these are simply not accounted for.

--
Find the grain of truth in criticism, chew it, and swallow
it. -- anonymous

On 2023-08-22, joe@mich.com <joe@mich.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 17:01:06 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2023-08-22, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> <joe@mich.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy
>>>>> <don.p.del.grande@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to
>>>>>> run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>>>>>>
>>>>> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Even if it’s 100% coal they are still better for the environment than gas
>>>> cars because of the efficiency of grid power plants compared to ICE
>>>> engines.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This ignores multiple factors such as greater weight of vehicles, increased
>>> use of natural resources, cost of new infrastructure needed for widespread
>>> adoption, etc.
>>>
>>
>>No, it doesn’t. There are multiple studies on this including by the Argonne
>>National Lab. Because of the factors you mentioned above, EVs start out in
>>the hole environmentally but are positive by about 20k miles of use in the
>>US depending on the car model and the local grid composition.
>>
>
> And if the entire world converted to renewable, green energy
> sources, no coal or oil and any bad stuff, zero carbon emmisions
> from anything in the world anywhere, would global warming stop?

No one knows.

Here's a recent interview of Steven Koonin, the brilliant scientist who held
multiple posts in the Obama Administration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l90FpjPGLBE

He is significant because EVERYTHING he says is straight out of the IPCC,
the gold standard for climate research evaluation.

--
Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed. -- Francis Bacon

On 2023-08-23, Eric Ramon <ramon.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 10:55:42 AM UTC-7, j...@mich.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 18:47:56 -0400, Ken Olson <kol...@freedomnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> >On 8/22/2023 2:42 PM, j...@mich.com wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 17:01:06 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <cons...@duxmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> On 2023-08-22, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> <j...@mich.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy
>> >>>>>> <don.p.de...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to
>> >>>>>>> run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Even if it’s 100% coal they are still better for the environment than gas
>> >>>>> cars because of the efficiency of grid power plants compared to ICE
>> >>>>> engines.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This ignores multiple factors such as greater weight of vehicles, increased
>> >>>> use of natural resources, cost of new infrastructure needed for widespread
>> >>>> adoption, etc.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> No, it doesn’t. There are multiple studies on this including by the Argonne
>> >>> National Lab. Because of the factors you mentioned above, EVs start out in
>> >>> the hole environmentally but are positive by about 20k miles of use in the
>> >>> US depending on the car model and the local grid composition.
>> >>>
>> >> And if the entire world converted to renewable, green energy sources, no coal or oil and any bad stuff, zero carbon emmisions from anything in the
>> >> world anywhere, would global warming stop?
>> >
>> >No. We are in an inter-glacial warming period.
>> WHAT!! Do you mean this has happened before? Glaciers have melted before? Florida and other areas have been under water before? Good heavens. Then why
>> all the hoopla and expense? Is it just an exercise to make lefties feel good, thinking they are doing something when they're just pissing in the wind?
>> Kind of like Lyndon Johnson turning off the lights in the White House to reduce the national debt?
>
> Never mind what the majority of scientists say.

I mind about it quite a bit. And they don't say that the world is experiencing heat waves,
droughts, floods, hurricanes, or tornadoes because of "climate change":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l90FpjPGLBE

--
Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed. -- Francis Bacon

On 8/24/2023 11:31 AM, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
> On 2023-08-23, Eric Ramon <ramon.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 10:55:42 AM UTC-7, j...@mich.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 18:47:56 -0400, Ken Olson <kol...@freedomnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/22/2023 2:42 PM, j...@mich.com wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 17:01:06 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <cons...@duxmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2023-08-22, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> <j...@mich.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy
>>>>>>>>> <don.p.de...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to
>>>>>>>>>> run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even if it’s 100% coal they are still better for the environment than gas
>>>>>>>> cars because of the efficiency of grid power plants compared to ICE
>>>>>>>> engines.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This ignores multiple factors such as greater weight of vehicles, increased
>>>>>>> use of natural resources, cost of new infrastructure needed for widespread
>>>>>>> adoption, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it doesn’t. There are multiple studies on this including by the Argonne
>>>>>> National Lab. Because of the factors you mentioned above, EVs start out in
>>>>>> the hole environmentally but are positive by about 20k miles of use in the
>>>>>> US depending on the car model and the local grid composition.
>>>>>>
>>>>> And if the entire world converted to renewable, green energy sources, no coal or oil and any bad stuff, zero carbon emmisions from anything in the
>>>>> world anywhere, would global warming stop?
>>>>
>>>> No. We are in an inter-glacial warming period.
>>> WHAT!! Do you mean this has happened before? Glaciers have melted before? Florida and other areas have been under water before? Good heavens. Then why
>>> all the hoopla and expense? Is it just an exercise to make lefties feel good, thinking they are doing something when they're just pissing in the wind?
>>> Kind of like Lyndon Johnson turning off the lights in the White House to reduce the national debt?
>>
>> Never mind what the majority of scientists say.
>
> I mind about it quite a bit. And they don't say that the world is experiencing heat waves,
> droughts, floods, hurricanes, or tornadoes because of "climate change":
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l90FpjPGLBE
>

Is that Charlie Rose old studio ?

On 2023-08-24, leonard hofstatdter <n.nut@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 8/24/2023 11:31 AM, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
>> On 2023-08-23, Eric Ramon <ramon.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 10:55:42 AM UTC-7, j...@mich.com wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 18:47:56 -0400, Ken Olson <kol...@freedomnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/22/2023 2:42 PM, j...@mich.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 17:01:06 -0000 (UTC), xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <cons...@duxmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2023-08-22, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> <j...@mich.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy
>>>>>>>>>> <don.p.de...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to
>>>>>>>>>>> run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Even if it’s 100% coal they are still better for the environment than gas
>>>>>>>>> cars because of the efficiency of grid power plants compared to ICE
>>>>>>>>> engines.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This ignores multiple factors such as greater weight of vehicles, increased
>>>>>>>> use of natural resources, cost of new infrastructure needed for widespread
>>>>>>>> adoption, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, it doesn’t. There are multiple studies on this including by the Argonne
>>>>>>> National Lab. Because of the factors you mentioned above, EVs start out in
>>>>>>> the hole environmentally but are positive by about 20k miles of use in the
>>>>>>> US depending on the car model and the local grid composition.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> And if the entire world converted to renewable, green energy sources, no coal or oil and any bad stuff, zero carbon emmisions from anything in the
>>>>>> world anywhere, would global warming stop?
>>>>>
>>>>> No. We are in an inter-glacial warming period.
>>>> WHAT!! Do you mean this has happened before? Glaciers have melted before? Florida and other areas have been under water before? Good heavens. Then why
>>>> all the hoopla and expense? Is it just an exercise to make lefties feel good, thinking they are doing something when they're just pissing in the wind?
>>>> Kind of like Lyndon Johnson turning off the lights in the White House to reduce the national debt?
>>>
>>> Never mind what the majority of scientists say.
>>
>> I mind about it quite a bit. And they don't say that the world is experiencing heat waves,
>> droughts, floods, hurricanes, or tornadoes because of "climate change":
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l90FpjPGLBE
>>
>
>
> Is that Charlie Rose old studio ?

Don't think so, it's at Stanford I am sure.

--
Being against torture ought to be sort of a bipartisan thing.
-- Karl Lehenbauer

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 6:22:53 AM UTC-7, j...@mich.com wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 11:12:10 -0700 (PDT), Eric Ramon <ramon...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >Never mind what the majority of scientists say.
> Didn't the majority of scientists at one time say the earth was the center of the universe? .
>

how do you know the earth *isn't* the center of the universe? Are you taking the word of some scientists? I should check this...I thought it was the Catholic Church that was saying the earth is the center and scientists disagreed.

Anyway, it's a very convenient out for nutjobs. Science is always "as far as we know now" so sometimes hypotheses are shown to be wrong. It's convenient because you can then disregard everything and believe whatever you want.

It's not just a righty thing, either. I was looking at a lefty site this morning and someone posted a nutjob article about the first moon landing. "If Armstrong was the first man on the moon, who took the photograph?" Jeez...and the comments were "if the government could lie to us about that then they could lie about everything".

Also on that lefty site, the consensus is that thinking Putin had anything to do with Prigozhin getting offed is conspiracy theory since it was likely the CIA. Eh, what??

Eric Ramon <ramon.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 6:22:53 AM UTC-7, j...@mich.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 11:12:10 -0700 (PDT), Eric Ramon <ramon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Never mind what the majority of scientists say.
>> Didn't the majority of scientists at one time say the earth was the
>> center of the universe? .
>>
>
> how do you know the earth *isn't* the center of the universe? Are you
> taking the word of some scientists? I should check this...I thought it
> was the Catholic Church that was saying the earth is the center and scientists disagreed.
>
> Anyway, it's a very convenient out for nutjobs. Science is always "as far
> as we know now" so sometimes hypotheses are shown to be wrong. It's
> convenient because you can then disregard everything and believe whatever you want.
>
> It's not just a righty thing, either. I was looking at a lefty site this
> morning and someone posted a nutjob article about the first moon landing.
> "If Armstrong was the first man on the moon, who took the photograph?"
> Jeez...and the comments were "if the government could lie to us about
> that then they could lie about everything".
>
> Also on that lefty site, the consensus is that thinking Putin had
> anything to do with Prigozhin getting offed is conspiracy theory since it
> was likely the CIA. Eh, what??
>

I don’t know what lefty spaces you frequent but I have never heard anyone
even mention, much less believe, those conspiracies you cite. You’re right
we have them though. The one I remember most is that Bush invaded
Afghanistan so Shell Oil could put a pipeline through there. Anti-vax also
has a significant granola earth mother contingent.

--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian,
liberal personality.” — Altie

On 8/21/2023 4:14 PM, joe@mich.com wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:33:00 -0700 (PDT), The NOTBCS Guy <don.p.del.grande@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We need to stop considering electric vehicles as "woke." We are going to run out of gas sooner rather than later.
>>
> What is the energy source to produce the electricity needed to charge an electric car?

Geothermal.

--
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In
practice, there is." Ruben Goldberg