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sport / alt.sports.basketball.nba.gs-warriors / Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportunity

SubjectAuthor
* NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportunitRobin Miller
+- Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportRobin Miller
`* Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportNFN Smith
 `* Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportRobin Miller
  `* Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportNFN Smith
   `- Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportRobin Miller

1
NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportunity

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From: robin.mi...@invalid.invalid (Robin Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.gs-warriors
Subject: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned
opportunity
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 by: Robin Miller - Wed, 24 Apr 2024 14:42 UTC

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/klay-thompson-moses-moody-sixth-man/1728245/

Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportunity

By Monte Poole

• Published 4 mins ago

As they enter the Summer of Klay Thompson, the Warriors would be wise to
make every effort to re-sign the veteran wing while also committing to
the best way to use his skills.

Thompson’s metrics indicate that would be as the team’s sixth man.

Which means coach Steve Kerr can better regulate his minutes. Some
nights, 23. Other nights, 32. Such flexibility suits the idea of
Thompson cooking as the team’s sixth man.

“Klay really showed that he was agreeable to the sixth man role the
second half of the year, even though eventually we put him back in the
starting lineup,” coach Steve Kerr said. “That's got to be an option
going forward. I would prefer not to play him 35 minutes.”

Putting Thompson, 34, into that role also should provide a long look at
Moses Moody in the starting lineup. He has earned that opportunity.

Both options are being considered, based on comments by Kerr when asked
last week about his starting-lineup options if Thompson returns as the
sixth man.

“It could very well be somebody on the roster,” Kerr said. “I think our
young guys are going to continue to get better. For a while we started
Brandin [Podziemski] instead of Klay. So that's a possibility. Maybe
Moses moves into the starting lineup.”

The case for Moody getting that opportunity is about as strong as the
case for Thompson as the sixth man. Much of it is based on Golden
State’s need to improve its point-of-attack defense and also have a
dangerous scorer coming off the bench.

There was a time when Thompson was a superb on-ball defender, capable of
excelling in assignments as varied as big guards like James Harden and
DeMar DeRozan, or smaller guards like Kyrie Irving and Chris Paul. When
Thompson and Andre Iguodala were on the court together, they were like
two gray wolves prowling the wings. That duo was crucial to Golden
State’s fabled “Death Squad” defense.

Two serious injuries – a torn left ACL and a ruptured right Achilles
tendon – have stolen much of Thompson’s lateral quickness. Buckets that
were rare against him six years ago now are common. Thompson’s 116.1
defensive rating in the 2023-24 NBA season ranked 11th among the
rotational Warriors, right behind Dario Sarić and ahead of Andrew
Wiggins (116.3).

Sacramento Kings coach Mike Brown – who was on Golden State’s staff
before and after Thompson’s injuries – had his wings hunting matchups
against Klay in the NBA Play-In Tournament game last week.

Moody is, by contrast, one of Golden State’s best defenders, on the ball
or off it. His 110.2 rating ranked second on the team, behind only Gary
Payton II (108.9) and just ahead of Draymond Green (110.7).

Though Moody’s defense would offset some of the scoring lost with
Thompson coming off the bench, he’s no zero on offense. He shot 46.2
percent from the field, including 36.0 deep, but those percentages rose
to 51.9/39.5 when he started. Thompson shot 43.2/38.7 percent overall,
42.5/37.7 when starting.

“He's a really good player, and he's a young player who still has a lot
of room for growth,” Kerr said of Moody. “Decision-making at both ends
needs to improve. Quicker decisions. Quicker rotations defensively.
Recognition of patterns.

“I've told him directly that I want him to get his shot off quicker. I
think he should be an excellent 3-point shooter. There are times where
he's open and he doesn't shoot it; he drives it, and we immediately lose
the advantage.”

Kerr’s concerns about Moody’s semi-deliberate release are valid,
certainly relative to Thompson. That’s a high bar; Klay’s
catch-and-shoot release is unsurpassed in the NBA, comparable to that of
Stephen Curry.

Moody is an imperfect player in development, still seeking his place in
the motion offense. Reps should help that. At 21, he’s two years younger
than Trayce Jackson-Davis but nine months older than Podziemski.

Moody generally is more of an asset than a liability. He tends to
perform well when given opportunities, which continue to be inconsistent.

“He hasn't probably played as much as we would like, and there hasn't
been a clear enough path,” general manager Mike Dunleavy said of Moody.
“That will be something we'll look at. It's really important coming into
Year 4 for him that there is some reasonable playing time available for
him where he can impact our team and be out there and continue to
improve, and I think that's a fair thing.”

The Warriors benefit if either Curry or Thompson is on the floor at all
times. With the goal of keeping Curry around 30 minutes per game, that
gives Thompson at least 18 to terrorize a defense plus spillover minutes
alongside his longtime partner.

There are no assurances that Thompson will return, or that Moody will
remain on the roster. But if both are back next season, the Warriors
have a logical experiment to consider.

Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportunity

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From: robin.mi...@invalid.invalid (Robin Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.gs-warriors
Subject: Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has
earned opportunity
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2024 10:58:40 -0400
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 by: Robin Miller - Wed, 24 Apr 2024 14:58 UTC

Robin Miller wrote:
>
>
> https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/klay-thompson-moses-moody-sixth-man/1728245/
>
>
>
> Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportunity
>
> By Monte Poole
>
> • Published 4 mins ago
>
>
> As they enter the Summer of Klay Thompson, the Warriors would be wise to
> make every effort to re-sign the veteran wing while also committing to
> the best way to use his skills.
>
> Thompson’s metrics indicate that would be as the team’s sixth man.
>
> Which means coach Steve Kerr can better regulate his minutes. Some
> nights, 23. Other nights, 32. Such flexibility suits the idea of
> Thompson cooking as the team’s sixth man.
>
> “Klay really showed that he was agreeable to the sixth man role the
> second half of the year, even though eventually we put him back in the
> starting lineup,” coach Steve Kerr said. “That's got to be an option
> going forward. I would prefer not to play him 35 minutes.”
>
> Putting Thompson, 34, into that role also should provide a long look at
> Moses Moody in the starting lineup. He has earned that opportunity.
>
> Both options are being considered, based on comments by Kerr when asked
> last week about his starting-lineup options if Thompson returns as the
> sixth man.
>
> “It could very well be somebody on the roster,” Kerr said. “I think our
> young guys are going to continue to get better. For a while we started
> Brandin [Podziemski] instead of Klay. So that's a possibility. Maybe
> Moses moves into the starting lineup.”
>
> The case for Moody getting that opportunity is about as strong as the
> case for Thompson as the sixth man. Much of it is based on Golden
> State’s need to improve its point-of-attack defense and also have a
> dangerous scorer coming off the bench.
>
> There was a time when Thompson was a superb on-ball defender, capable of
> excelling in assignments as varied as big guards like James Harden and
> DeMar DeRozan, or smaller guards like Kyrie Irving and Chris Paul. When
> Thompson and Andre Iguodala were on the court together, they were like
> two gray wolves prowling the wings. That duo was crucial to Golden
> State’s fabled “Death Squad” defense.
>
> Two serious injuries – a torn left ACL and a ruptured right Achilles
> tendon – have stolen much of Thompson’s lateral quickness. Buckets that
> were rare against him six years ago now are common. Thompson’s 116.1
> defensive rating in the 2023-24 NBA season ranked 11th among the
> rotational Warriors, right behind Dario Sarić and ahead of Andrew
> Wiggins (116.3).
>

This is shocking that Wiggins was so poor defensively last season. His
and Klay's defensive decline are big reasons for the Warriors' team decline.

--Robin

Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportunity

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From: worldoff...@gmail.com (NFN Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.gs-warriors
Subject: Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has
earned opportunity
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2024 08:41:00 -0700
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 by: NFN Smith - Wed, 24 Apr 2024 15:41 UTC

Robin Miller wrote:
> Thompson’s metrics indicate that would be as the team’s sixth man.
>
> Which means coach Steve Kerr can better regulate his minutes. Some
> nights, 23. Other nights, 32. Such flexibility suits the idea of
> Thompson cooking as the team’s sixth man.
>
> “Klay really showed that he was agreeable to the sixth man role the
> second half of the year, even though eventually we put him back in the
> starting lineup,” coach Steve Kerr said. “That's got to be an option
> going forward. I would prefer not to play him 35 minutes.”

I pretty much agree with this. Klay can still be valuable to the
Warriors, but he's always been streaky, and as he ages, he doesn't get
as hot, either as frequently or as long. And there are an increasing
number of games where he just doesn't have it.

I wouldn't put much emphasis on the Sacramento game. Although it was
awful, Klay still has some left. But at the same time, the number of
klunkers is on the increase, and if he's on the Warriors roster, then
Kerr needs to be able to have other options on night when things aren't
working with Klay.

The more complicated thing than managing his minutes may be in managing
his contract terms. The noise coming from Steph and Green is that not
only do they want Klay back (which I think is a good thing), but that
his pay needs to account for all that he's contributed in the past.
That one is going to be a problem, not only for what it does to for
luxury tax payments, but also in limiting the Warriors flexibility on
acquiring other players.

Sometimes, when players are coming up on new contracts, there's a little
talk of "home town discount", where a player might be willing to take a
little less money in a contract to stay with the team. In this case,
the situation may be in reverse, where there may be (or need to be)
something like "veteran icon bonus", where the team overpays to keep a
beloved player. I think there is a little space for that, where the
Warriors recognize what Klay has contributed and paying for past
performance rather than as much for current performance. But there are
limits of sentimentality, and if the Warriors overpay Klay enough that
they can't add other talent, then the result will not be much more than
this year, a team that gets only as far as the play-in tournament.

For talent handling, it's too easy to simply project what a player did
this year onto next year, and that doesn't really work. Steph is still
Steph, but not quite the same Steph as 5 or 6 years ago -- not unlike
Joe Montana in the last couple of years he played (not counting the
injury years) for the 49ers. And as long as Green can keep his head on,
he can remain productive. But Klay is obvious in his decline, and it
may be too much to expect even as much as he did this year, and his
ceiling is lowering.

On the other side, there is also the question of how much growth can be
expected from the younger guys. Yes, Moody has earned the opportunity,
and Kuminga is growing, but can either or both have the long-awaited
breakouts, where they become core players, rather than just productive
rotation players? And how much is reasonable to expect from Podziemski
and Jackson-Davis?

Although Paul is still productive, his contract is the one that's going
to be easiest to move. And as much as I would not like it to happen (I
like both players), I think the Warriors need to look at moving both
Wiggins and Looney. I think Wiggins has done everything he's going to
do for the Warriors, and I don't know if Looney is already showing
decline from aging, or if he has the ability to produce at levels that
he showed in 2022 and 2023.

Smith

Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportunity

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From: robin.mi...@invalid.invalid (Robin Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.gs-warriors
Subject: Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has
earned opportunity
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2024 12:17:11 -0400
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 by: Robin Miller - Wed, 24 Apr 2024 16:17 UTC

NFN Smith wrote:
> Robin Miller wrote:
>> Thompson’s metrics indicate that would be as the team’s sixth man.
>>
>> Which means coach Steve Kerr can better regulate his minutes. Some
>> nights, 23. Other nights, 32. Such flexibility suits the idea of
>> Thompson cooking as the team’s sixth man.
>>
>> “Klay really showed that he was agreeable to the sixth man role the
>> second half of the year, even though eventually we put him back in the
>> starting lineup,” coach Steve Kerr said. “That's got to be an option
>> going forward. I would prefer not to play him 35 minutes.”
>
>
> I pretty much agree with this.  Klay can still be valuable to the
> Warriors, but he's always been streaky, and as he ages, he doesn't get
> as hot, either as frequently or as long.  And there are an increasing
> number of games where he just doesn't have it.
>
> I wouldn't put much emphasis on the Sacramento game. Although it was
> awful, Klay still has some left.  But at the same time, the number of
> klunkers is on the increase, and if he's on the Warriors roster, then
> Kerr needs to be able to have other options on night when things aren't
> working with Klay.
>
> The more complicated thing than managing his minutes may be in managing
> his contract terms.  The noise coming from Steph and Green is that not
> only do they want Klay back (which I think is a good thing), but that
> his pay needs to account for all that he's contributed in the past. That
> one is going to be a problem, not only for what it does to for luxury
> tax payments, but also in limiting the Warriors flexibility on acquiring
> other players.
>
> Sometimes, when players are coming up on new contracts, there's a little
> talk of "home town discount", where a player might be willing to take a
> little less money in a contract to stay with the team.  In this case,
> the situation may be in reverse, where there may be (or need to be)
> something like "veteran icon bonus", where the team overpays to keep a
> beloved player.  I think there is a little space for that, where the
> Warriors recognize what Klay has contributed and paying for past
> performance rather than as much for current performance. But there are
> limits of sentimentality, and if the Warriors overpay Klay enough that
> they can't add other talent, then the result will not be much more than
> this year, a team that gets only as far as the play-in tournament.
>
> For talent handling, it's too easy to simply project what a player did
> this year onto next year, and that doesn't really work.  Steph is still
> Steph, but not quite the same Steph as 5 or 6 years ago -- not unlike
> Joe Montana in the last couple of years he played (not counting the
> injury years) for the 49ers. And as long as Green can keep his head on,
> he can remain productive.  But Klay is obvious in his decline, and it
> may be too much to expect even as much as he did this year, and his
> ceiling is lowering.
>
> On the other side, there is also the question of how much growth can be
> expected from the younger guys.  Yes, Moody has earned the opportunity,
> and Kuminga is growing, but can either or both have the long-awaited
> breakouts, where they become core players, rather than just productive
> rotation players?  And how much is reasonable to expect from Podziemski
> and Jackson-Davis?
>
> Although Paul is still productive, his contract is the one that's going
> to be easiest to move.  And as much as I would not like it to happen (I
> like both players), I think the Warriors need to look at moving both
> Wiggins and Looney.  I think Wiggins has done everything he's going to
> do for the Warriors, and I don't know if Looney is already showing
> decline from aging, or if he has the ability to produce at levels that
> he showed in 2022 and 2023.
>
> Smith

I agree with pretty much everything here, other than the propriety of
giving Klay a "veteran icon bonus." Frankly, his current contract, which
paid him max dollars for two seasons lost to injury, already did that.
And didn't the Warriors offer him that contract after he had already
suffered the first of his two major injuries, the ACL tear during the
playoffs?

--Robin

Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportunity

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From: worldoff...@gmail.com (NFN Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.gs-warriors
Subject: Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has
earned opportunity
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2024 14:16:11 -0700
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 by: NFN Smith - Wed, 24 Apr 2024 21:16 UTC

Robin Miller wrote:
> I agree with pretty much everything here, other than the propriety of
> giving Klay a "veteran icon bonus." Frankly, his current contract, which
> paid him max dollars for two seasons lost to injury, already did that.
> And didn't the Warriors offer him that contract after he had already
> suffered the first of his two major injuries, the ACL tear during the
> playoffs?

I believe the contract was signed before the first injury, but didn't
come into effect until afterward.

I agree with you, it's just that the noises that Steph and Green are
making about wanting Klay back include that they think that he should be
paid based on prior contribution, not his current capacities.

If they're keeping that group all together for the sake of sentiment,
then they're already conceding next season, where even a play-in slot
might be beyond the team's capacity. And if Klay makes it out to free
agency and an open market, I don't know how much he might be able to
command above the Mid-Level Exception. If you're a team like the
Sacramento Kings (presumably on the rise), how much do you pay a player
like Klay for the next 2 or 3 years, and the prospect of the last year
being similar to what the Warriors got out of the last couple of years
of Iguodala?

Smith

Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportunity

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From: robin.mi...@invalid.invalid (Robin Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.gs-warriors
Subject: Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has
earned opportunity
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2024 18:41:10 -0400
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 by: Robin Miller - Wed, 24 Apr 2024 22:41 UTC

NFN Smith wrote:
> Robin Miller wrote:
>> I agree with pretty much everything here, other than the propriety of
>> giving Klay a "veteran icon bonus." Frankly, his current contract,
>> which paid him max dollars for two seasons lost to injury, already did
>> that. And didn't the Warriors offer him that contract after he had
>> already suffered the first of his two major injuries, the ACL tear
>> during the playoffs?
>
> I believe the contract was signed before the first injury, but didn't
> come into effect until afterward.
>
> I agree with you, it's just that the noises that Steph and Green are
> making about wanting Klay back include that they think that he should be
> paid based on prior contribution, not his current capacities.
>
> If they're keeping that group all together for the sake of sentiment,
> then they're already conceding next season, where even a play-in slot
> might be beyond the team's capacity.  And if Klay makes it out to free
> agency and an open market, I don't know how much he might be able to
> command above the Mid-Level Exception. If you're a team like the
> Sacramento Kings (presumably on the rise), how much do you pay a player
> like Klay for the next 2 or 3 years, and the prospect of the last year
> being similar to what the Warriors got out of the last couple of years
> of Iguodala?
>
> Smith

It's an interesting question, what is Klay worth? He's always going to
have value to the Warriors in taking some of the defensive pressure off
Steph. Other teams know that, even if Klay isn't shooting that well
overall, if they let him get hot he can still dominate a game.

I suspect the contract will get done, but I really hope it's for a
reasonable amount. I'll be disappointed in Klay if he insists on max
dollars (not a max contract under the CBA, just the largest he can get)
as the Warriors already did him a huge solid (in my view) by paying him
for his injury seasons.

--Robin


sport / alt.sports.basketball.nba.gs-warriors / Re: NBCSBA (Poole): Klay must be Warriors' priority, but Moody has earned opportunity

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