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sport / rec.sport.soccer / Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

SubjectAuthor
* UCL 22 SEMI FINALSBinder Dundat
`* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALSBinder Dundat
 `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALSAl Kamista
  `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALSBinder Dundat
   `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALSMH
    `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALSAl Kamista
     +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALSBinder Dundat
     `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]MH
      +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Binder Dundat
      `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
       `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]MH
        `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Binder Dundat
         `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Binder Dundat
          `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Binder Dundat
           `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Binder Dundat
            +* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
            |+* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Binder Dundat
            ||`- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Real Mardin
            |`- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]MH
            `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Binder Dundat
             `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Futbolmetrix
              +* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |`* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Futbolmetrix
              | +* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Binder Dundat
              | |`- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]The Doctor
              | `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |  `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |   +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Futbolmetrix
              |   +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |   `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Binder Dundat
              |    `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Blueshirt
              |     `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Binder Dundat
              |      `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Blueshirt
              |       +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Binder Dundat
              |       +* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Futbolmetrix
              |       |`* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]vedran
              |       | +* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Binder Dundat
              |       | |`* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Blueshirt
              |       | | +* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Binder Dundat
              |       | | |`* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Blueshirt
              |       | | | `- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Bruce Scott
              |       | | +* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]The Doctor
              |       | | |`- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Real Mardin
              |       | | `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Real Mardin
              |       | |  +* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Futbolmetrix
              |       | |  |`* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]ixion martin - GdBx
              |       | |  | +* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |       | |  | |`* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]ixion martin - GdBx
              |       | |  | | `- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]ixion martin - GdBx
              |       | |  | `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]MH
              |       | |  |  +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |       | |  |  +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |       | |  |  +* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Real Mardin
              |       | |  |  |`- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]MH
              |       | |  |  +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |       | |  |  `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]ixion martin - GdBx
              |       | |  |   `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Blueshirt
              |       | |  |    `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Werner Pichler
              |       | |  |     `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Blueshirt
              |       | |  |      `* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |       | |  |       +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]MH
              |       | |  |       +* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Real Mardin
              |       | |  |       |`* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Blueshirt
              |       | |  |       | +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Real Mardin
              |       | |  |       | +* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |       | |  |       | |`- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]MH
              |       | |  |       | +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Werner Pichler
              |       | |  |       | +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |       | |  |       | +* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |       | |  |       | |`- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]ixion martin - GdBx
              |       | |  |       | +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Werner Pichler
              |       | |  |       | `- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |       | |  |       +* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]ixion martin - GdBx
              |       | |  |       |`- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |       | |  |       `- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]ixion martin - GdBx
              |       | |  +* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |       | |  |`* Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]vedran
              |       | |  | `- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Werner Pichler
              |       | |  +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Futbolmetrix
              |       | |  +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |       | |  +- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Werner Pichler
              |       | |  `- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Al Kamista
              |       | `- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Futbolmetrix
              |       `- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Binder Dundat
              `- Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]Binder Dundat

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Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: alkami...@hotmail.com (Al Kamista)
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 by: Al Kamista - Thu, 5 May 2022 02:30 UTC

On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 6:46:13 PM UTC-4, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 5:55:07 PM UTC-4, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > There is something supernatural at play here. Not once, not twice, but thrice. The pundits will all
> > come out with their 20/20 hindsight and try to explain what happened, but the truth is that this pattern is inexplicable.
> Nah. There is a lot of this type of punditry going around tonight:
>
> https://xkcd.com/904/
>
> It's not about Madrid's "DNA" or other such silliness. Sometimes, football happens. And some rarer times, it happens more than once in the same direction.

Yes I agree that random things happen, even in abundance in clusters sometimes. I read a book in college (eons ago) on interesting statistical anomalies. It had an anecdote about an Amtrak train in the 80s that got into 4-5 accidents (some fatal) within a span of less than 48 hours. The crew and management freaked out and labeled it a "rogue train" and decommissioned it. But taking a larger view, the author concluded that with the sheer volume of train traffic over decades and decades, the statistical probability that a single train (or maybe more) will get into multiple accidents in a short span of time was virtually guaranteed. So Real Madrid is that train here (but in a positive sense for them).

On the flip side, as mentioned earlier, they are very fortunate that all 3 ties had them playing home in the second leg. And it's also undeniable that psychology plays a big part in the game, and once Real got even a little momentum late in these games, the opposition shat their pants (and that mental effect snowballed as it repeated itself over 3 rounds).

So yes, nothing to do with DNA, but rather home field advantage, unnerved opposition, and a pretty crazy amount of luck.

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: ixi...@martin.invalid (ixion martin - GdBx)
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 by: ixion martin - GdBx - Thu, 5 May 2022 06:15 UTC

Futbolmetrix avait énoncé :

> I don't particularly like Real Madrid, but I too am glad not
> to see an all-EPL final.

Where is the difference.
Always the same teams.
Absolutely boring.

--
Ixion

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: wpich...@gmail.com (Werner Pichler)
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 by: Werner Pichler - Thu, 5 May 2022 09:06 UTC

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 1:16:59 AM UTC+2, vedran wrote:
> On 4.5.2022. 23:55, Al Kamista wrote:
>
>
> At least you don't have to worry about Karius and Ramos, but imagine if
> Bale gets subbed in and decides again, that would be another level of absurdity.

Karius is still on Liverpool's books.
If Hollywood wrote the script, Alisson, Adrián, and Kelleher would all eat the wrong kind
of sushi the day before the final.

Ciao,
Werner

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: wpich...@gmail.com (Werner Pichler)
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 by: Werner Pichler - Thu, 5 May 2022 09:13 UTC

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 4:30:05 AM UTC+2, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 6:46:13 PM UTC-4, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 5:55:07 PM UTC-4, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > There is something supernatural at play here. Not once, not twice, but thrice. The pundits will all
> > > come out with their 20/20 hindsight and try to explain what happened, but the truth is that this pattern is inexplicable.
>
> > Nah. There is a lot of this type of punditry going around tonight:
> >
> > https://xkcd.com/904/
> >
> > It's not about Madrid's "DNA" or other such silliness. Sometimes, football happens. And some rarer times, it happens more than once in the same direction.
>
> Yes I agree that random things happen, even in abundance in clusters sometimes. I read a book in college (eons ago) on interesting statistical anomalies. It had
> an anecdote about an Amtrak train in the 80s that got into 4-5 accidents (some fatal) within a span of less than 48 hours. The crew and management freaked
> out and labeled it a "rogue train" and decommissioned it. But taking a larger view, the author concluded that with the sheer volume of train traffic over decades
> and decades, the statistical probability that a single train (or maybe more) will get into multiple accidents in a short span of time was virtually guaranteed. So
> Real Madrid is that train here (but in a positive sense for them).

The same's true for penalties. It's perfectly natural for one team to get more penalties than another. Or several in one
game. Or a couple of matches in a row. Don't know how often I've seen football fans argue about 'conspiracy' in cases
like that, with seemingly the only satisfying conclusion if the number of penalties was perfectly evenly distributed among
all major teams. When, in effect, nothing could be *less* random than that.

Also: https://freakonomics.com/2005/08/what-do-the-kansas-city-royals-and-my-ipod-have-in-common/

> On the flip side, as mentioned earlier, they are very fortunate that all 3 ties had them playing home in the second leg. And it's also undeniable that psychology
> plays a big part in the game, and once Real got even a little momentum late in these games, the opposition shat their pants (and that mental effect snowballed
> as it repeated itself over 3 rounds).
>
> So yes, nothing to do with DNA, but rather home field advantage, unnerved opposition, and a pretty crazy amount of luck.

So you admit there still *is* home field advantage, and it *is* an advantage to play additional 30 minutes at home.

Ciao,
Werner

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: alkami...@hotmail.com (Al Kamista)
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 by: Al Kamista - Thu, 5 May 2022 12:53 UTC

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 2:15:09 AM UTC-4, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> Futbolmetrix avait énoncé :
> > I don't particularly like Real Madrid, but I too am glad not
> > to see an all-EPL final.
> Where is the difference.
> Always the same teams.
> Absolutely boring.

You always have the choice of not watching, so what's the problem? I don't watch motor sports and golf for the same reason.

Marseilles is playing in the Conference League semifinals today. And as I type, Ceferin is probably telling the referees that the French club must lose, because he hates baguettes so much :-)

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: alkami...@hotmail.com (Al Kamista)
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 by: Al Kamista - Thu, 5 May 2022 12:56 UTC

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 5:13:19 AM UTC-4, Werner Pichler wrote:
> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 4:30:05 AM UTC+2, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:

> > So yes, nothing to do with DNA, but rather home field advantage, unnerved opposition, and a pretty crazy amount of luck.
> So you admit there still *is* home field advantage, and it *is* an advantage to play additional 30 minutes at home.

Yes, in ET games the home team has an additional 30 minute advantage. But AGR is not the right answer. I'd rather they went straight to penalties after 180 minutes than instill a random tiebreaker.

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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From: bds...@lapCU-0123.aug.ipp.mpg.de (Bruce Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 16:01:27 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Bruce Scott - Thu, 5 May 2022 16:01 UTC

On 2022-05-04, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:

> Pep found wanting in the CL again!
>
> Real Madrid were the better team over the two legs.

This isn't the first time Ancelotti outsmarted Pep in a Semifinal!
I was there for both matches in 2014, and the first one, when we
still had all the chances, was the telling one. We suffocated them
in the last 25m for 30 minutes but didn't score, and they got one
on the counter. And then we didn't score. In the return leg Pep
panicked, set up the team wrong, and we got wiped out.

They were deserving winners then and might be again...

--
ciao, Bruce

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
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 by: MH - Thu, 5 May 2022 16:50 UTC

On 2022-05-05 00:15, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> Futbolmetrix avait énoncé :
>
>> I don't particularly like Real Madrid, but I too am glad not to see an
>> all-EPL final.
>
> Where is the difference.
> Always the same teams.
> Absolutely boring.
>
In the last five years we have had

Liverpool - Real Madrid
Spurs - Liverpool
Bayern - PSG
Chelsea - Man City
Liverpool- Real Madrid

7 different teams for 10 finalist spots. I am not sure that constitutes
"always the same teams".

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: alkami...@hotmail.com (Al Kamista)
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 by: Al Kamista - Thu, 5 May 2022 17:18 UTC

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 12:50:13 PM UTC-4, MH wrote:
> On 2022-05-05 00:15, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> > Futbolmetrix avait énoncé :
> >
> >> I don't particularly like Real Madrid, but I too am glad not to see an
> >> all-EPL final.
> >
> > Where is the difference.
> > Always the same teams.
> > Absolutely boring.
> >
> In the last five years we have had
>
> Liverpool - Real Madrid
> Spurs - Liverpool
> Bayern - PSG
> Chelsea - Man City
> Liverpool- Real Madrid
>
> 7 different teams for 10 finalist spots. I am not sure that constitutes
> "always the same teams".

For comparison, here's the Superbowl lineup:
Rams - Bengals
Bucs - Chiefs
Chiefs - 49ers
Pats - Rams
Eagles - Pats

7 different teams. The NFL has a lot more financial parity, plus a draft system for further egalitarianism.

But same result.

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: alkami...@hotmail.com (Al Kamista)
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 by: Al Kamista - Thu, 5 May 2022 17:23 UTC

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 1:18:55 PM UTC-4, Al Kamista wrote:
> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 12:50:13 PM UTC-4, MH wrote:
> > On 2022-05-05 00:15, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> > > Futbolmetrix avait énoncé :
> > >
> > >> I don't particularly like Real Madrid, but I too am glad not to see an
> > >> all-EPL final.
> > >
> > > Where is the difference.
> > > Always the same teams.
> > > Absolutely boring.
> > >
> > In the last five years we have had
> >
> > Liverpool - Real Madrid
> > Spurs - Liverpool
> > Bayern - PSG
> > Chelsea - Man City
> > Liverpool- Real Madrid
> >
> > 7 different teams for 10 finalist spots. I am not sure that constitutes
> > "always the same teams".
> For comparison, here's the Superbowl lineup:
> Rams - Bengals
> Bucs - Chiefs
> Chiefs - 49ers
> Pats - Rams
> Eagles - Pats
>
> 7 different teams. The NFL has a lot more financial parity, plus a draft system for further egalitarianism.
>
> But same result.

NBA:
Bucks - Suns
Lakers - Heat
Warriors - Raptors
Warriors - Cavs
Warriors - Cavs

7 different teams.

Move along folks, nothing to see here.

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: real_mar...@yahoo.co.uk (Real Mardin)
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 by: Real Mardin - Thu, 5 May 2022 17:31 UTC

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 5:50:13 PM UTC+1, MH wrote:
> On 2022-05-05 00:15, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> > Futbolmetrix avait énoncé :
> >
> >> I don't particularly like Real Madrid, but I too am glad not to see an
> >> all-EPL final.
> >
> > Where is the difference.
> > Always the same teams.
> > Absolutely boring.
> >
> In the last five years we have had
>
> Liverpool - Real Madrid
> Spurs - Liverpool
> Bayern - PSG
> Chelsea - Man City
> Liverpool- Real Madrid
>
> 7 different teams for 10 finalist spots. I am not sure that constitutes
> "always the same teams".

But go back another 5 years and Real have a further 3 finals, Atlético 2 and Juve 2. So there is some tendency to see the same teams return to the final.

RM

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: alkami...@hotmail.com (Al Kamista)
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 by: Al Kamista - Thu, 5 May 2022 17:39 UTC

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-4, Real Mardin wrote:
> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 5:50:13 PM UTC+1, MH wrote:
> > On 2022-05-05 00:15, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> > > Futbolmetrix avait énoncé :
> > >
> > >> I don't particularly like Real Madrid, but I too am glad not to see an
> > >> all-EPL final.
> > >
> > > Where is the difference.
> > > Always the same teams.
> > > Absolutely boring.
> > >
> > In the last five years we have had
> >
> > Liverpool - Real Madrid
> > Spurs - Liverpool
> > Bayern - PSG
> > Chelsea - Man City
> > Liverpool- Real Madrid
> >
> > 7 different teams for 10 finalist spots. I am not sure that constitutes
> > "always the same teams".
> But go back another 5 years and Real have a further 3 finals, Atlético 2 and Juve 2. So there is some tendency to see the same teams return to the final.

That may be true, but the same applies in many American sporting leagues (which are the best comparison to the CL because they have similar big money teams).

And as mentioned, American franchises are *all* loaded, because you need to meet some minimal criteria to gain admission as a franchise. Then they have an annual draft systems, where the lowest performing teams get to pick the best college players every year to drive further equality.

In a nutshell, even in leagues where financial and sporting equality is proactively promoted, you do not see much more variance over a given period of time.

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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From: MHnos...@ucalgary.ca (MH)
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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
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 by: MH - Thu, 5 May 2022 17:50 UTC

On 2022-05-05 11:31, Real Mardin wrote:
> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 5:50:13 PM UTC+1, MH wrote:
>> On 2022-05-05 00:15, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
>>> Futbolmetrix avait énoncé :
>>>
>>>> I don't particularly like Real Madrid, but I too am glad not to see an
>>>> all-EPL final.
>>>
>>> Where is the difference.
>>> Always the same teams.
>>> Absolutely boring.
>>>
>> In the last five years we have had
>>
>> Liverpool - Real Madrid
>> Spurs - Liverpool
>> Bayern - PSG
>> Chelsea - Man City
>> Liverpool- Real Madrid

Spurs, City and PSG were all making their first ever appearance in a
final, it should be pointed out.

>>
>> 7 different teams for 10 finalist spots. I am not sure that constitutes
>> "always the same teams".
>
> But go back another 5 years and Real have a further 3 finals, Atlético 2 and Juve 2. So there is some tendency to see the same teams return to the final.

Given that the finals have been restricted to teams from the "big 5"
leagues since 2004, is that so suprising ?

The problem is more the dominant financial position of some leagues than
the identity of the individual teams from those leagues that make
finals. Whereas in the past Dutch, Belgian, Scottish, Swedish,
Romanian, Portugese, and Yugoslavian sides could make finals and even
win them, that has not happened in a long time.
>
> RM

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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 by: ixion martin - GdBx - Thu, 5 May 2022 23:01 UTC

MH a couché sur son écran :
> On 2022-05-05 00:15, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
>> Futbolmetrix avait énoncé :
>>
>>> I don't particularly like Real Madrid, but I too am glad
>>> not to see an all-EPL final.
>>
>> Where is the difference.
>> Always the same teams.
>> Absolutely boring.
>>
> In the last five years we have had

Why five ? And not ten or fifteen ?

> 7 different teams for 10 finalist spots. I am not sure that
> constitutes "always the same teams".

How many countries ?

--
Ixion

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

<62745775$0$18003$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: ixi...@martin.invalid (ixion martin - GdBx)
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 by: ixion martin - GdBx - Thu, 5 May 2022 23:02 UTC

Al Kamista a pensé très fort :
> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 2:15:09 AM UTC-4, ixion martin -
> GdBx wrote:
>> Futbolmetrix avait énoncé :
>>> I don't particularly like Real Madrid, but I too am glad
>>> not to see an all-EPL final.
>> Where is the difference.
>> Always the same teams.
>> Absolutely boring.
>
> You always have the choice of not watching,

It is what I did...

> so what's the problem?

We had a true treasure 35 years ago and I miss it.

> Marseilles is playing in the Conference League semifinals
> today. And as I type, Ceferin is probably telling the
> referees that the French club must lose, because he hates
> baguettes so much :-)

We have seen that.
How the hell Feyenoord could finish the match with 11 players ?

--
Ixion

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: ixi...@martin.invalid (ixion martin - GdBx)
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 by: ixion martin - GdBx - Thu, 5 May 2022 23:03 UTC

ixion martin - GdBx a couché sur son écran :
> Al Kamista a pensé très fort :
>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 2:15:09 AM UTC-4, ixion martin
>> - GdBx wrote:
>>> Futbolmetrix avait énoncé :
>>>> I don't particularly like Real Madrid, but I too am glad
>>>> not to see an all-EPL final.
>>> Where is the difference. Always the same teams. Absolutely
>>> boring.
>>
>> You always have the choice of not watching,
>
> It is what I did...
>
>
>> so what's the problem?
>
> We had a true treasure 35 years ago and I miss it.

Another problem is : if it was PSG instead of Madrid, the first
goal would have disallowed for Asensio's offside (even if it is
a passive offside) and the penalty not given.
You can laugh but you know I'm right.

--
Ixion

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

<t52ser$fld$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bluesh...@indigo.news (Blueshirt)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 11:14:49 +0100
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 by: Blueshirt - Fri, 6 May 2022 10:14 UTC

On 06/05/2022 00:01, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> MH a couché sur son écran :
>> On 2022-05-05 00:15, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
>>> Futbolmetrix avait énoncé :
>>>
>>>> I don't particularly like Real Madrid, but I too am glad not to see
>>>> an all-EPL final.
>>>
>>> Where is the difference.
>>> Always the same teams.
>>> Absolutely boring.
>>>
>> In the last five years we have had
>
> Why five ? And not ten or fifteen ?

Why not eight or twelve?! ;-)

>
>> 7 different teams for 10 finalist spots.  I am not sure that
>> constitutes "always the same teams".
>
> How many countries ?

Realistically, the winner of the European Super League, I mean UEFA
Champions League, are always going to be one of the big teams from one
of the 'big five' European leagues... the competition is designed that way.

I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: wpich...@gmail.com (Werner Pichler)
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 by: Werner Pichler - Fri, 6 May 2022 12:08 UTC

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:14:53 PM UTC+2, Blueshirt wrote:
> On 06/05/2022 00:01, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> > MH a couché sur son écran :
> >> On 2022-05-05 00:15, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> >>> Futbolmetrix avait énoncé :
> >>>
> >>>> I don't particularly like Real Madrid, but I too am glad not to see
> >>>> an all-EPL final.
> >>>
> >>> Where is the difference.
> >>> Always the same teams.
> >>> Absolutely boring.
> >>>
> >> In the last five years we have had
> >
> > Why five ? And not ten or fifteen ?
> Why not eight or twelve?! ;-)
> >
> >> 7 different teams for 10 finalist spots. I am not sure that
> >> constitutes "always the same teams".
> >
> > How many countries ?

The six finalists in the three European finals this year come from six different countries,
two of them from outside the top 5 leagues. Realistically, it won't get better than that.

> Realistically, the winner of the European Super League, I mean UEFA
> Champions League, are always going to be one of the big teams from one
> of the 'big five' European leagues... the competition is designed that way.
>
> I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Ajax were a minute away from reaching the final three years ago. It's not entirely inconceivable.

Ciao,
Werner

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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From: bluesh...@indigo.news (Blueshirt)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 13:30:42 +0100
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 by: Blueshirt - Fri, 6 May 2022 12:30 UTC

Werner Pichler wrote:

> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:14:53 PM UTC+2, Blueshirt wrote:
>
> > Realistically, the winner of the European Super League, I mean
> > UEFA Champions League, are always going to be one of the big
> > teams from one of the 'big five' European leagues... the
> > competition is designed that way.
> >
> > I don't see it changing anytime soon.
>
> Ajax were a minute away from reaching the final three years ago.
> It's not entirely inconceivable.

A minute is a long time in football! :-)

No it's not inconceivable. But the way the tournament has been geared
with all the changes over the years, it does favour the top teams
from the big European leagues. What with seedings and 'this' team
can't play 'that' team, etc...

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: alkami...@hotmail.com (Al Kamista)
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 by: Al Kamista - Fri, 6 May 2022 13:00 UTC

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 8:31:01 AM UTC-4, Blueshirt wrote:
> Werner Pichler wrote:
>
> > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:14:53 PM UTC+2, Blueshirt wrote:
> >
> > > Realistically, the winner of the European Super League, I mean
> > > UEFA Champions League, are always going to be one of the big
> > > teams from one of the 'big five' European leagues... the
> > > competition is designed that way.
> > >
> > > I don't see it changing anytime soon.
> >
> > Ajax were a minute away from reaching the final three years ago.
> > It's not entirely inconceivable.
> A minute is a long time in football! :-)
>
> No it's not inconceivable. But the way the tournament has been geared
> with all the changes over the years, it does favour the top teams
> from the big European leagues. What with seedings and 'this' team
> can't play 'that' team, etc...

5 leagues is still a lot. I am not sure what people want, the footballing equivalent of communism?

It is at the end of the day, a commercial sport. And UEFA now has 3 tournaments, exactly for the reason that people are complaining - that smaller leagues have a chance at continental glory. The scenes at Ibrox were something yesterday; it was louder than the Bernabeu was a day earlier.

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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From: MHnos...@ucalgary.ca (MH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 09:20:38 -0600
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 by: MH - Fri, 6 May 2022 15:20 UTC

On 2022-05-06 07:00, Al Kamista wrote:
> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 8:31:01 AM UTC-4, Blueshirt wrote:
>> Werner Pichler wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:14:53 PM UTC+2, Blueshirt wrote:
>>>
>>>> Realistically, the winner of the European Super League, I mean
>>>> UEFA Champions League, are always going to be one of the big
>>>> teams from one of the 'big five' European leagues... the
>>>> competition is designed that way.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see it changing anytime soon.
>>>
>>> Ajax were a minute away from reaching the final three years ago.
>>> It's not entirely inconceivable.
>> A minute is a long time in football! :-)
>>
>> No it's not inconceivable. But the way the tournament has been geared
>> with all the changes over the years, it does favour the top teams
>> from the big European leagues. What with seedings and 'this' team
>> can't play 'that' team, etc...
>
> 5 leagues is still a lot. I am not sure what people want, the footballing equivalent of communism?
>
> It is at the end of the day, a commercial sport. And UEFA now has 3 tournaments, exactly for the reason that people are complaining - that smaller leagues have a chance at continental glory. The scenes at Ibrox were something yesterday; it was louder than the Bernabeu was a day earlier.

It was a fun match to watch, from what I saw of it. Rangers punching
way above their weight, and also riding their luck. Consider that RBL
have got quite far in the CL in the recent past, and can count bona fide
internationals from some pretty good teams in their ranks (Olmo,
Poulsen, Nkunku, Klostermann, Forsberg, Gvardiol - along with good
internationals from other countries as well, like Kampl, Gulasci, Adams,
Szoboslai). Against that Rangers have rejects from the lower English
leagues like Goldson, Tavernier, Liverpool reject Kent, Arfield, and
some promising but raw Nigerians - and the ancient McGregor in goal.

The irony is that Rangers' strong run this year might well benefit
Celtic more than them, by making automatic CL group stage part of the
equation for a few years.

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: real_mar...@yahoo.co.uk (Real Mardin)
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 by: Real Mardin - Fri, 6 May 2022 21:12 UTC

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 2:00:42 PM UTC+1, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 8:31:01 AM UTC-4, Blueshirt wrote:
> > Werner Pichler wrote:
> >
> > > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:14:53 PM UTC+2, Blueshirt wrote:
> > >
> > > > Realistically, the winner of the European Super League, I mean
> > > > UEFA Champions League, are always going to be one of the big
> > > > teams from one of the 'big five' European leagues... the
> > > > competition is designed that way.
> > > >
> > > > I don't see it changing anytime soon.
> > >
> > > Ajax were a minute away from reaching the final three years ago.
> > > It's not entirely inconceivable.
> > A minute is a long time in football! :-)
> >
> > No it's not inconceivable. But the way the tournament has been geared
> > with all the changes over the years, it does favour the top teams
> > from the big European leagues. What with seedings and 'this' team
> > can't play 'that' team, etc...
> 5 leagues is still a lot.

What?!? There are 55 UEFA members. Granted some are bigger than others but if the finalists are mainly coming from the same 5 nations that means clubs from 89% of nations are in effect shut out of the final.

> I am not sure what people want, the footballing equivalent of communism?

We didn't have the footballing equivalent of communism in the 80's and 90's, as always some clubs were richer than others, but we did have a more diverse range of European finalists with the likes of Steaua Bucharest, Red Star Belgrade, PSV, Videoton, IFK Goteborg, Salzburg, Galatasaray, Dinamo Tiblisi, Carl Zeiss Jena, Standard Liege, Rapid Vienna, Dundee United, Aberdeen, Mechelen and Dynamo Kyiv all making finals.

The difference is back then the gap between rich and not to rich wasn't so great that it couldn't be breached with the right tactics, a will to win, good team cohesion, a golden generation of players or a combination of the above. As has been mentioned elsewhere on the thread, the problem now days is that the rich clubs, who are concentrated in a small number of leagues, have become so stronger than the rest that the difference in quality often can't realistically be overcome by the rest of the pack. Some of these teams can field reserve sides that can and do beat the champions of middle ranking nations. In some respects it ceases to be a contest when things get that one sided. This is one of the reasons I'd have been quite happy if the European Super League had taken off - let the super rich sides fight it out amongst teams of their own calibre and we'd be left with UEFA competitions which have a more level playing field and are consequently more entertaining to watch.

RM

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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From: bluesh...@indigo.news (Blueshirt)
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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
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 by: Blueshirt - Sat, 7 May 2022 10:05 UTC

Real Mardin wrote:

> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 2:00:42 PM UTC+1, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 8:31:01 AM UTC-4, Blueshirt wrote:
> > >
> > > No it's not inconceivable. But the way the tournament has been
> > > geared with all the changes over the years, it does favour the
> > > top teams from the big European leagues. What with seedings and
> > > 'this' team can't play 'that' team, etc...
> > 5 leagues is still a lot.
>
> What?!? There are 55 UEFA members. Granted some are bigger than
> others but if the finalists are mainly coming from the same 5 nations
> that means clubs from 89% of nations are in effect shut out of the
> final.
>
> > I am not sure what people want, the footballing equivalent of
> > communism?
>
> We didn't have the footballing equivalent of communism in the 80's
> and 90's, as always some clubs were richer than others, but we did
> have a more diverse range of European finalists with the likes of
> Steaua Bucharest, Red Star Belgrade, PSV, Videoton, IFK Goteborg,
> Salzburg, Galatasaray, Dinamo Tiblisi, Carl Zeiss Jena, Standard
> Liege, Rapid Vienna, Dundee United, Aberdeen, Mechelen and Dynamo
> Kyiv all making finals.

The fact that UEFA tournaments back then had open draws also helped the
non-fashionable teams progress in the tournaments. Two BIG teams could
draw each other in the early rounds of the European Cup and one would
get knocked out. This was what helped lead to the creation of the
Champions League as the 'big' teams didn't like the idea of a cup
tournament that they could get knocked out of early.

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: real_mar...@yahoo.co.uk (Real Mardin)
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 by: Real Mardin - Sat, 7 May 2022 11:42 UTC

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:06:01 AM UTC+1, Blueshirt wrote:
> Real Mardin wrote:
>
> > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 2:00:42 PM UTC+1, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 8:31:01 AM UTC-4, Blueshirt wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No it's not inconceivable. But the way the tournament has been
> > > > geared with all the changes over the years, it does favour the
> > > > top teams from the big European leagues. What with seedings and
> > > > 'this' team can't play 'that' team, etc...
> > > 5 leagues is still a lot.
> >
> > What?!? There are 55 UEFA members. Granted some are bigger than
> > others but if the finalists are mainly coming from the same 5 nations
> > that means clubs from 89% of nations are in effect shut out of the
> > final.
> >
> > > I am not sure what people want, the footballing equivalent of
> > > communism?
> >
> > We didn't have the footballing equivalent of communism in the 80's
> > and 90's, as always some clubs were richer than others, but we did
> > have a more diverse range of European finalists with the likes of
> > Steaua Bucharest, Red Star Belgrade, PSV, Videoton, IFK Goteborg,
> > Salzburg, Galatasaray, Dinamo Tiblisi, Carl Zeiss Jena, Standard
> > Liege, Rapid Vienna, Dundee United, Aberdeen, Mechelen and Dynamo
> > Kyiv all making finals.
> The fact that UEFA tournaments back then had open draws also helped the
> non-fashionable teams progress in the tournaments. Two BIG teams could
> draw each other in the early rounds of the European Cup and one would
> get knocked out. This was what helped lead to the creation of the
> Champions League as the 'big' teams didn't like the idea of a cup
> tournament that they could get knocked out of early.

Yeah exactly, I read years ago that it was Bayern Munich and Real Madrid getting each other in the first round of the European Cup in the late 80’s that inspired the creation of the Champions League.

I actually watched said tie, or at least the first leg. Bayern won 3-2 on a snowy day but Real won the second leg to progress. Didn’t realise at the time I was watching a match that would change football history.

RM

Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]

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Subject: Re: UCL 22 SEMI FINALS [R]
From: alkami...@hotmail.com (Al Kamista)
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 by: Al Kamista - Sat, 7 May 2022 12:15 UTC

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 7:42:36 AM UTC-4, Real Mardin wrote:
> On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:06:01 AM UTC+1, Blueshirt wrote:
> > Real Mardin wrote:
> >
> > > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 2:00:42 PM UTC+1, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 8:31:01 AM UTC-4, Blueshirt wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > No it's not inconceivable. But the way the tournament has been
> > > > > geared with all the changes over the years, it does favour the
> > > > > top teams from the big European leagues. What with seedings and
> > > > > 'this' team can't play 'that' team, etc...
> > > > 5 leagues is still a lot.
> > >
> > > What?!? There are 55 UEFA members. Granted some are bigger than
> > > others but if the finalists are mainly coming from the same 5 nations
> > > that means clubs from 89% of nations are in effect shut out of the
> > > final.
> > >
> > > > I am not sure what people want, the footballing equivalent of
> > > > communism?
> > >
> > > We didn't have the footballing equivalent of communism in the 80's
> > > and 90's, as always some clubs were richer than others, but we did
> > > have a more diverse range of European finalists with the likes of
> > > Steaua Bucharest, Red Star Belgrade, PSV, Videoton, IFK Goteborg,
> > > Salzburg, Galatasaray, Dinamo Tiblisi, Carl Zeiss Jena, Standard
> > > Liege, Rapid Vienna, Dundee United, Aberdeen, Mechelen and Dynamo
> > > Kyiv all making finals.
> > The fact that UEFA tournaments back then had open draws also helped the
> > non-fashionable teams progress in the tournaments. Two BIG teams could
> > draw each other in the early rounds of the European Cup and one would
> > get knocked out. This was what helped lead to the creation of the
> > Champions League as the 'big' teams didn't like the idea of a cup
> > tournament that they could get knocked out of early.
> Yeah exactly, I read years ago that it was Bayern Munich and Real Madrid getting each other in the first round of the European Cup in the late 80’s that inspired the creation of the Champions League.

Not only that, but a pure knockout format favors lesser teams. So the present day status quo is as much a result of the group stage format as it is of financial dispairty. Without a group stage I'm sure we'd see a lot more Villareal type runs.

The problem also is, Europe has way too many countries for such a small continent (no wonder they break out in war every few decades).

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