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tech / alt.astronomy / NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

SubjectAuthor
* NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !25.BX944
+- Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !Mighty Wannabe
`* Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !casagiannoni
 +* Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !Mighty Wannabe
 |`* Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !casagiannoni
 | `* Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !Daniel65
 |  +* Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !Mighty Wannabe
 |  |`* Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !Daniel65
 |  | `- Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !25.BX944
 |  `* Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !casagiannoni
 |   +- Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !25.BX944
 |   `* Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !Daniel65
 |    `* Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !Barry Schwarz
 |     `* Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !Daniel65
 |      `* Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !R Kym Horsell
 |       `- Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !R Kym Horsell
 `- Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !25.BX944

1
Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

<uejl6h9l6utcvce78ucteot786ihj18dh9@4ax.com>

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From: schwa...@delq.com (Barry Schwarz)
Newsgroups: alt.astronomy
Subject: Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 10:28:50 -0700
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 by: Barry Schwarz - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:28 UTC

On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 19:05:49 +1000, Daniel65
<daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:

>casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 28/4/22 3:26 am:
>>> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 26/4/22 6:39 am:
>>>> I don't subscribe to wormholes and other fictitious crap that have
>>>> never been observed or substantiated.
>>>
>>> Ah!! Well, there you go! Can't possible happen cause casagiannoni says
>>> so!! ;-P
>>>>
>> I didn't exactly say anything couldn't happen, only that not yet
>> "observed or substantiated" .
>>
>> Big difference.
>>
>"other fictitious crap"?? Ah!! So you think it is still a possibility!
>RIGHT!!

Perhaps you can enlighten us with the correct nomenclature for an idea
which has never been observed, is the product of wild speculation or
wishful thinking, and for which there is no grounded theory describing
how the idea could actually exist or how it might be observed.

--
Remove del for email

Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

<t4ge2v$lgb$1@dont-email.me>

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From: danie...@eternal-september.org (Daniel65)
Newsgroups: alt.astronomy
Subject: Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 20:19:09 +1000
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 by: Daniel65 - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:19 UTC

Barry Schwarz wrote on 29/4/22 3:28 am:
> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 19:05:49 +1000, Daniel65
> <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:
>> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 28/4/22 3:26 am:
>>>> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 26/4/22 6:39 am:
>>>>> I don't subscribe to wormholes and other fictitious crap that
>>>>> have never been observed or substantiated.
>>>>
>>>> Ah!! Well, there you go! Can't possible happen cause
>>>> casagiannoni says so!! ;-P
>>>>>
>>> I didn't exactly say anything couldn't happen, only that not yet
>>> "observed or substantiated" .
>>>
>>> Big difference.
>>>
>> "other fictitious crap"?? Ah!! So you think it is still a
>> possibility! RIGHT!!
>
> Perhaps you can enlighten us with the correct nomenclature for an
> idea which has never been observed, is the product of wild
> speculation or wishful thinking, and for which there is no grounded
> theory describing how the idea could actually exist or how it might
> be observed.

Something that could happen/occur but hasn't been seen/detected yet!!

"possibility" or "probability" might fit the bill!!

I'm sure you would have others that might fit the bill!
--
Daniel

Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

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From: kym...@kymhorsell.com (R Kym Horsell)
Newsgroups: alt.astronomy
Subject: Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 11:05:44 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: kymhorsell.com
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 by: R Kym Horsell - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 11:05 UTC

Daniel65 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:
> Barry Schwarz wrote on 29/4/22 3:28 am:
>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 19:05:49 +1000, Daniel65
>> <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:
>>> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 28/4/22 3:26 am:
>>>>> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 26/4/22 6:39 am:
>>>>>> I don't subscribe to wormholes and other fictitious crap that
>>>>>> have never been observed or substantiated.
>>>>> Ah!! Well, there you go! Can't possible happen cause
>>>>> casagiannoni says so!! ;-P
>>>> I didn't exactly say anything couldn't happen, only that not yet
>>>> "observed or substantiated" .
>>>> Big difference.
>>> "other fictitious crap"?? Ah!! So you think it is still a
>>> possibility! RIGHT!!
>> Perhaps you can enlighten us with the correct nomenclature for an
>> idea which has never been observed, is the product of wild
>> speculation or wishful thinking, and for which there is no grounded
>> theory describing how the idea could actually exist or how it might
>> be observed.
> Something that could happen/occur but hasn't been seen/detected yet!!
> "possibility" or "probability" might fit the bill!!
> I'm sure you would have others that might fit the bill!

"has never been observed" is another key phrase that tips you off
to an argument from ignorance -- a basic logical fallacy.

It's truly a pity that modern skeptics dont know how to go about
their craft without falling into a trap they should have learned about
in middle school English class. Tsk tsk tsk. :)

The problem with cantalini and the cow guy is wormholes are a
well-checked possible solution to GR equations. If you reject them
then you essentially reject Relativity that has an enormous amount of
experimental evidence to support it.

The mathematics of wormholes is extremely similar to the detailed
math for quantum entanglement -- the phenomenon that allows e.g. 2
particles to be connected via some invisible thread such that
something that affects one of the paticles "instantaneously" affects
the other one.

Engtanglement, again, has a huge amount of experimental evidence to support it.
A growing cadre of devices relies on it working the way physicists expect.

There is also a growing cadre of physicists that suspect the 2 things
are the same phenomenon. IOW we have observed wormholes but have not
realized what it was we were looking at.

Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

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From: kym...@kymhorsell.com (R Kym Horsell)
Newsgroups: alt.astronomy
Subject: Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 11:53:48 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: R Kym Horsell - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 11:53 UTC

R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> wrote:
> Daniel65 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:
>
.....

TOE!!

A Simple Equation Indicates Wormholes May Be the Key to ...
Interesting Engineering, 19 Sept 2021
Could a simple equation about wormholes finally bridge the gap between
quantum mechanics and general relativity in a unified theory of ...

NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

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From: 25BZ...@nada.net (25.BX944)
Subject: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 00:08:32 -0400
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 by: 25.BX944 - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 04:08 UTC

https://www.the-sun.com/tech/5145822/arecibo-message-update-risk-alien-invasion-nasa/

.. . .

A MESSAGE broadcast out to space revealing Earth's location
could provoke an invasion from aliens, an expert has warned.

Nasa launched a basic one called Arecibo in 1974 but with
better tech available today scientists want to update it.

.. . .

Even "Everybody's Expert" Dr.Michio Kaku says it's
a STUPID, DANGEROUS idea.

Hey, why does anybody think 'aliens' are friendly ?
Any long-existing high-rated culture seems more likely
to be run by totalitarians and/or aggressive colonizers.

SOME of that references how HUMANS do things ... but
frankly we have NO idea how anything ELSE would behave.

And NO, we are NOT ready to cope with an aggressive
star-traveling culture. Will Smith will NOT save us
(unless they make fun of his wife).

For now, let's just assume aliens are like Wells' Martians
or "Klingons" or "Borg" ..... stay kinda quiet, don't tell
them anything.

Oh yea, OTHER countries ... why should the USA have the
unilateral right to expose YOU to alien aggression ???
Seems that anything like this OUGHT to require full UN
approval at the very least. And yes, I do mean UNANIMOUS
AGREEMENT.

Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

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From: ????????...@????.??????????? (Mighty Wannabe)
Organization: Prometheus Society
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 by: Mighty Wannabe - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 04:27 UTC

25.BX944 wrote on 4/19/2022 12:08 AM:
> https://www.the-sun.com/tech/5145822/arecibo-message-update-risk-alien-invasion-nasa/
>
>
> . . .
>
> A MESSAGE broadcast out to space revealing Earth's location
> could provoke an invasion from aliens, an expert has warned.
>
> Nasa launched a basic one called Arecibo in 1974 but with
> better tech available today scientists want to update it.
>
> . . .
>
> Even "Everybody's Expert" Dr.Michio Kaku says it's
> a STUPID, DANGEROUS idea.
>
> Hey, why does anybody think 'aliens' are friendly ?
> Any long-existing high-rated culture seems more likely
> to be run by totalitarians and/or aggressive colonizers.
>
> SOME of that references how HUMANS do things ... but
> frankly we have NO idea how anything ELSE would behave.
>
> And NO, we are NOT ready to cope with an aggressive
> star-traveling culture. Will Smith will NOT save us
> (unless they make fun of his wife).
>
> For now, let's just assume aliens are like Wells' Martians
> or "Klingons" or "Borg" ..... stay kinda quiet, don't tell
> them anything.
>
> Oh yea, OTHER countries ... why should the USA have the
> unilateral right to expose YOU to alien aggression ???
> Seems that anything like this OUGHT to require full UN
> approval at the very least. And yes, I do mean UNANIMOUS
> AGREEMENT.

It might be millions of years before they get here. We will be long gone.

Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

<2jmd6h9appt8o6oes5qlph9r9csqt3dcnl@4ax.com>

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From: casagian...@optimum.net
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Subject: Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !
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 by: casagian...@optimum.net - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 17:38 UTC

It really doesn't matter.

Interstellar distances are so vast as to preclude any chance of alien
visits, even if they could travel at speeds approaching c, which is
extremely unlikely in any case.

Even practical communications are also unlikely. If NASA says Hi ! ,
it won't reach any alien ears for years, and any response many more
years etc.

Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

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From: ????????...@????.??????????? (Mighty Wannabe)
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 by: Mighty Wannabe - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 19:10 UTC

casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 4/25/2022 1:38 PM:
> It really doesn't matter.
>
> Interstellar distances are so vast as to preclude any chance of alien
> visits, even if they could travel at speeds approaching c, which is
> extremely unlikely in any case.
>
> Even practical communications are also unlikely. If NASA says Hi ! ,
> it won't reach any alien ears for years, and any response many more
> years etc.

There may be ways to travel faster than light through a wormhole that
connects two distant points in our familiar four-dimensional world via a
yet-to-be-discovered dimension.

Wormhole
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole

The impossibility of faster-than-light relative speed only applies
locally. Wormholes might allow effective superluminal (faster-than-light
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light>) travel by ensuring
that the speed of light is not exceeded locally at any time. While
traveling through a wormhole, subluminal (slower-than-light) speeds are
used. If two points are connected by a wormhole whose length is shorter
than the distance between them /outside/ the wormhole, the time taken to
traverse it could be less than the time it would take a light beam to
make the journey if it took a path through the space /outside/ the
wormhole. However, a light beam traveling through the same wormhole
would beat the traveler.

Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

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From: casagian...@optimum.net
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Subject: Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !
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 by: casagian...@optimum.net - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 20:39 UTC

I don't subscribe to wormholes and other fictitious crap that have
never been observed or substantiated.

It's the good old 3 spatial dimensiones and 4th time dimension of the
classical space-time continuum for me.

Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

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 by: 25.BX944 - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 03:35 UTC

On 4/25/22 1:38 PM, casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote:
> It really doesn't matter.
>
> Interstellar distances are so vast as to preclude any chance of alien
> visits, even if they could travel at speeds approaching c, which is
> extremely unlikely in any case.

I tend to agree ... but I don't have a physics degree.
Lightspeed really looks like IT - and it ain't NEARLY
fast enough.

"StarGates" and such ... ummmm ... MAYbe .... but I'm
not optimistic.

> Even practical communications are also unlikely. If NASA says Hi ! ,
> it won't reach any alien ears for years, and any response many more
> years etc.

Well, we HOPE so - but, JUST IN CASE .........

We are NOT prepared to deal with ultratech cultures
from beyond. Even if they were "friendly" we'd still
be subsumed.

Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

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From: danie...@eternal-september.org (Daniel65)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.science,alt.astronomy,alt.survival,alt.politics
Subject: Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !
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 by: Daniel65 - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:36 UTC

casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 26/4/22 6:39 am:
> I don't subscribe to wormholes and other fictitious crap that have
> never been observed or substantiated.

Ah!! Well, there you go! Can't possible happen cause casagiannoni says
so!! ;-P
>
> It's the good old 3 spatial dimensiones and 4th time dimension of the
> classical space-time continuum for me.
>

--
Daniel

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From: ????????...@????.??????????? (Mighty Wannabe)
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 by: Mighty Wannabe - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:26 UTC

Daniel65 wrote on 4/26/2022 5:36 AM:
> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 26/4/22 6:39 am:
>> I don't subscribe to wormholes and other fictitious crap that have
>> never been observed or substantiated.
>
> Ah!! Well, there you go! Can't possible happen cause casagiannoni says
> so!! ;-P
>>
>> It's the good old 3 spatial dimensiones and 4th time dimension of the
>> classical space-time continuum for me.
>>
>
>

In the old days if you postulate that we might be living on a space rock
which is hurtling around the sun at great speed, instead of living on a
stationary firmament below our feet with the revolving heavens above our
head, you would be burned at the stake for being a heretic.

Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

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 by: Daniel65 - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:30 UTC

Mighty Wannabe wrote on 26/4/22 8:26 pm:
> Daniel65 wrote on 4/26/2022 5:36 AM:
>> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 26/4/22 6:39 am:
>>> I don't subscribe to wormholes and other fictitious crap that
>>> have never been observed or substantiated.
>>
>> Ah!! Well, there you go! Can't possible happen cause casagiannoni
>> says so!! ;-P
>>>
>>> It's the good old 3 spatial dimensiones and 4th time dimension of
>>> the classical space-time continuum for me.
>
> In the old days if you postulate that we might be living on a space
> rock which is hurtling around the sun at great speed, instead of
> living on a stationary firmament below our feet with the revolving
> heavens above our head, you would be burned at the stake for being a
> heretic.

Yeap.
--
Daniel

Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

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 by: casagian...@optimum.net - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:26 UTC

>casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 26/4/22 6:39 am:
>> I don't subscribe to wormholes and other fictitious crap that have
>> never been observed or substantiated.
>
>Ah!! Well, there you go! Can't possible happen cause casagiannoni says
>so!! ;-P
>>
I didn't exactly say anything couldn't happen, only that not yet
"observed or substantiated" .

Big difference.

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 by: 25.BX944 - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 02:53 UTC

On 4/27/22 1:26 PM, casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote:
>
>> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 26/4/22 6:39 am:
>>> I don't subscribe to wormholes and other fictitious crap that have
>>> never been observed or substantiated.
>>
>> Ah!! Well, there you go! Can't possible happen cause casagiannoni says
>> so!! ;-P
>>>
> I didn't exactly say anything couldn't happen, only that not yet
> "observed or substantiated" .
>
> Big difference.

There are SOME hopes - see my reply to casa - but they
are still very THIN hopes. Reality conspires against
our desires at seemingly every level in this respect.

So, luckily, we probably should NOT worry about the
Klingons showing up. Negative - WE are likewise stuck
in OUR little patch of the universe.

But, meanwhile, let's be a little CAUTIOUS about beaming
vital info into space. SOMETHING may have solved The
Problem ... and there is NO reason to think they'd be
nice. Indeed militant cultures tend to progress faster ...

Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

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 by: 25.BX944 - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 02:49 UTC

On 4/27/22 9:30 AM, Daniel65 wrote:
> Mighty Wannabe wrote on 26/4/22 8:26 pm:
>> Daniel65 wrote on 4/26/2022 5:36 AM:
>>> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 26/4/22 6:39 am:
>>>> I don't subscribe to wormholes and other fictitious crap that
>>>> have never been observed or substantiated.
>>>
>>> Ah!! Well, there you go! Can't possible happen cause casagiannoni
>>> says so!! ;-P
>>>>
>>>> It's the good old 3 spatial dimensiones and 4th time dimension of
>>>> the classical space-time continuum for me.
>>
>> In the old days if you postulate that we might be living on a space
>> rock which is hurtling around the sun at great speed, instead of
>> living on a stationary firmament below our feet with the revolving
>> heavens above our head, you would be burned at the stake for being a
>> heretic.
>
> Yeap.

We're not burning anybody - but we WOULD like to see
some mathematical proof that stable, hopefully targetable,
large wormholes CAN be created. Some PRACTICAL framework,
even if early, would be extra nice.

Wormholes are Sci-Fi bullshit at this point, a plot
convenience. NOTHING to back them as a real tech.
There IS a real theory for "warp drive" - except it
requires stellar energy levels and would likely heat
the vehicle to millions of degrees ......

There IS one thin hope - quantum indeterminacy. In
short WHY ARE THINGS LIKELY TO STAY WHERE THEY ARE ?
Individual sub-atomic particles and such CAN migrate
anywhere at any instant - but BIG objects can not.
Well, find a way to make a big object think it's a
single quantum-affectable 'particle' and ...... ???

Some quantum effect really DO make it look like there
are a few xtra dimensions out there. "Entangled" particles
act like ONE particle no matter their 3-D separation. This
suggests they are NOT separated at some higher-D that we
just can't see. Maybe we can't SEE it, but that doesn't
mean we can't find ways to EXPLOIT it.

An Einstein-Bose condensate ... hundreds of super-cooled
atoms ... can take on many of the quantum characteristics
of a single subatomic particle. This MAY include the
ability to suddenly move to the other side of our
3D-verse. How to scale this up ?

So, we're not ENTIRELY out of options - but these hopes
ARE still pretty damned thin, esp in terms of practical
application. So, don't get your hopes up.

Plus side - the Klingons will have similar obstacles.

Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !

<t4dldd$tet$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=4708&group=alt.astronomy#4708

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From: danie...@eternal-september.org (Daniel65)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.science,alt.astronomy,alt.survival,alt.politics
Subject: Re: NASA Wants To Beam Vital Human Info to Aliens - BAD Idea !
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 19:05:49 +1000
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 by: Daniel65 - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:05 UTC

casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 28/4/22 3:26 am:
>> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 26/4/22 6:39 am:
>>> I don't subscribe to wormholes and other fictitious crap that have
>>> never been observed or substantiated.
>>
>> Ah!! Well, there you go! Can't possible happen cause casagiannoni says
>> so!! ;-P
>>>
> I didn't exactly say anything couldn't happen, only that not yet
> "observed or substantiated" .
>
> Big difference.
>
"other fictitious crap"?? Ah!! So you think it is still a possibility!
RIGHT!!
--
Daniel

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