If you read this article you learn some interesting things: These Tesla trucks go through 1.7 Kwh per mile. This means that only two full charges is more energy than the average household uses in a month.

https://www.electrive.com/2023/08/15/pepsico-cites-consumption-of-1-1-kwh-km-for-tesla-semi/

WHERE is this electricity coming from? Without the EV load on the power system blackouts from overloads were all too common.

I have made the point before that when you generate electricity at a distance and transmit it say from Grand Coulee to cities and then the loses from charging the so-called efficiency of electric cars completely disappears. Because of this, BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) has natural gas driven generators to power the rails when a train is coming through. Riding by you can hear their kick in and riding the train you can look down and see the slight amount of smoke that comes from burning natural gas.

BART engineering staff well knew that the only efficient way to use energy was to generate if locally and use it only as needed, and then shut the generators down.

Most of BART is powered off of the grid, but all of the extensions are installing their own power.

The people talking EV's haven't learned that lesson yet. An electric car can be a good idea since there are almost no moving parts in it. But the batteries are a problem waiting for a solution and the Lithium batteries are not recyclable.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you read this article you learn some interesting things: These Tesla
> trucks go through 1.7 Kwh per mile. This means that only two full charges
> is more energy than the average household uses in a month.
>
> https://www.electrive.com/2023/08/15/pepsico-cites-consumption-of-1-1-kwh-km-for-tesla-semi/
>
> WHERE is this electricity coming from? Without the EV load on the power
> system blackouts from overloads were all too common.
>
> I have made the point before that when you generate electricity at a
> distance and transmit it say from Grand Coulee to cities and then the
> loses from charging the so-called efficiency of electric cars completely
> disappears. Because of this, BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) has natural
> gas driven generators to power the rails when a train is coming through.
> Riding by you can hear their kick in and riding the train you can look
> down and see the slight amount of smoke that comes from burning natural gas.
>
> BART engineering staff well knew that the only efficient way to use
> energy was to generate if locally and use it only as needed, and then
> shut the generators down.
>
> Most of BART is powered off of the grid, but all of the extensions are
> installing their own power.
>
> The people talking EV's haven't learned that lesson yet. An electric car
> can be a good idea since there are almost no moving parts in it. But the
> batteries are a problem waiting for a solution and the Lithium batteries
> are not recyclable.
>

Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
houses for few days off the car.

Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
relatively low in comparison.

Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.

I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
in the cars essentially.

It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.

In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.

Roger Merriman

On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:

<snip>

> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
> houses for few days off the car.
>
> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
> relatively low in comparison.
>
> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>
> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
> in the cars essentially.
>
> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>
> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.

BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
(Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
source goes offline.

The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.

As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.

As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
per 1000km).

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>> houses for few days off the car.
>>
>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>> relatively low in comparison.
>>
>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>
>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>> in the cars essentially.
>>
>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>
>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>
>BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>(Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>source goes offline.
>
>The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>
>As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>
>As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>per 1000km).

I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 11:02:23 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
> wrote:
> >On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
> >> houses for few days off the car.
> >>
> >> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
> >> relatively low in comparison.
> >>
> >> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
> >> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
> >>
> >> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
> >> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
> >> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
> >> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
> >> in the cars essentially.
> >>
> >> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
> >> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
> >>
> >> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
> >> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
> >
> >BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
> >power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
> >(Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
> >1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
> >can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
> >source goes offline.
> >
> >The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
> >escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
> >as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
> >to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
> >
> >As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
> >some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
> >
> >As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
> >transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
> >per 1000km).
> I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
> half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
> --

"concocted"...lol

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 00:11:55 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 11:02:23?PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> >
>> ><snip>
>> >
>> >> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>> >> houses for few days off the car.
>> >>
>> >> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>> >> relatively low in comparison.
>> >>
>> >> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>> >> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>> >>
>> >> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>> >> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>> >> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>> >> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>> >> in the cars essentially.
>> >>
>> >> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>> >> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>> >>
>> >> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>> >> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>> >
>> >BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>> >power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>> >(Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>> >1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>> >can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>> >source goes offline.
>> >
>> >The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>> >escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>> >as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>> >to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>> >
>> >As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>> >some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>> >
>> >As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>> >transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>> >per 1000km).
>> I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>> half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>> --
>
>"concocted"...lol

I thought it applicable for some of their laws (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 10:02:16 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>
>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>
>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>
>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>
>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>
>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>
>>BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>(Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>source goes offline.
>>
>>The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>
>>As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>
>>As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>per 1000km).
>
>I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.

As more and more Californians leave the state.

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:02:25 -0400, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 10:02:16 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>
>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>
>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>
>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>
>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>
>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>
>>>BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>>power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>>(Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>>1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>>can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>>source goes offline.
>>>
>>>The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>>escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>>as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>>to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>
>>>As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>>some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>
>>>As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>>transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>>per 1000km).
>>
>>I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>>half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>
>
>As more and more Californians leave the state.

Based on population figures it doesn't look like that many people but
that may be because skilled people leaving and unskilled moving in,
there are, for example 170,000 homeless in the state - the most of any
state in the Union - as of June this year, but what is perhaps more
important is companies moving out of the state. I read that of 100
companies that moved to Texas 40% came from California.

By the way, I read that Farmers Insurance will no longer ensure homes
in Florida. What is going on?
The same company seems to be a bit reluctant to operate in California
also.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:58:22 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:02:25 -0400, Catrike Rider
><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 10:02:16 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>>
>>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>>
>>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>>
>>>>BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>>>power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>>>(Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>>>1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>>>can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>>>source goes offline.
>>>>
>>>>The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>>>escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>>>as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>>>to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>>
>>>>As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>>>some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>>
>>>>As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>>>transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>>>per 1000km).
>>>
>>>I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>>>half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>>
>>
>>As more and more Californians leave the state.
>
>Based on population figures it doesn't look like that many people but
>that may be because skilled people leaving and unskilled moving in,
>there are, for example 170,000 homeless in the state - the most of any
>state in the Union - as of June this year, but what is perhaps more
>important is companies moving out of the state. I read that of 100
>companies that moved to Texas 40% came from California.
>
>By the way, I read that Farmers Insurance will no longer ensure homes
>in Florida. What is going on?
>The same company seems to be a bit reluctant to operate in California
>also.

Hurricanes in Florida, fires in California.

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 06:46:02 -0400, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:58:22 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:02:25 -0400, Catrike Rider
>><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 10:02:16 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>><snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>>BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>>>>power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>>>>(Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>>>>1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>>>>can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>>>>source goes offline.
>>>>>
>>>>>The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>>>>escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>>>>as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>>>>to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>>>
>>>>>As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>>>>some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>>>
>>>>>As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>>>>transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>>>>per 1000km).
>>>>
>>>>I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>>>>half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>>>
>>>
>>>As more and more Californians leave the state.
>>
>>Based on population figures it doesn't look like that many people but
>>that may be because skilled people leaving and unskilled moving in,
>>there are, for example 170,000 homeless in the state - the most of any
>>state in the Union - as of June this year, but what is perhaps more
>>important is companies moving out of the state. I read that of 100
>>companies that moved to Texas 40% came from California.
>>
>>By the way, I read that Farmers Insurance will no longer ensure homes
>>in Florida. What is going on?
>>The same company seems to be a bit reluctant to operate in California
>>also.
>
>Hurricanes in Florida, fires in California.

But how can that be? Tommy has assured us many times that there is no
global warming, no climate change, no sea level rising.

I guess the Insurance company just didn't listen to Tom. (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 8/17/2023 10:02 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>
>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>
>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>
>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>
>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>
>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>
>> BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>> power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>> (Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>> 1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>> can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>> source goes offline.
>>
>> The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>> escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>> as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>> to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>
>> As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>> some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>
>> As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>> transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>> per 1000km).
>
> I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
> half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.

Sadly no one reads Bastiat nowadays. Mandated malinvestment
impoverishes everyone.

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 18:59:41 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 06:46:02 -0400, Catrike Rider
><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:58:22 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:02:25 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 10:02:16 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>><snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>>>>>power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>>>>>(Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>>>>>1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>>>>>can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>>>>>source goes offline.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>>>>>escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>>>>>as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>>>>>to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>>>>>some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>>>>>transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>>>>>per 1000km).
>>>>>
>>>>>I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>>>>>half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>As more and more Californians leave the state.
>>>
>>>Based on population figures it doesn't look like that many people but
>>>that may be because skilled people leaving and unskilled moving in,
>>>there are, for example 170,000 homeless in the state - the most of any
>>>state in the Union - as of June this year, but what is perhaps more
>>>important is companies moving out of the state. I read that of 100
>>>companies that moved to Texas 40% came from California.
>>>
>>>By the way, I read that Farmers Insurance will no longer ensure homes
>>>in Florida. What is going on?
>>>The same company seems to be a bit reluctant to operate in California
>>>also.
>>
>>Hurricanes in Florida, fires in California.
>
>But how can that be? Tommy has assured us many times that there is no
>global warming, no climate change, no sea level rising.

Neither the hurricanes, nor the forest fire are because of "global
warming." They've both been going on for ages.

>I guess the Insurance company just didn't listen to Tom. (:-)

On 8/18/2023 3:58 AM, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:02:25 -0400, Catrike Rider
> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 10:02:16 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>>
>>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>>
>>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>>
>>>> BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>>> power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>>> (Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>>> 1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>>> can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>>> source goes offline.
>>>>
>>>> The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>>> escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>>> as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>>> to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>>
>>>> As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>>> some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>>
>>>> As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>>> transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>>> per 1000km).
>>>
>>> I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>>> half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>>
>>
>> As more and more Californians leave the state.
>
> Based on population figures it doesn't look like that many people but
> that may be because skilled people leaving and unskilled moving in,
> there are, for example 170,000 homeless in the state - the most of any
> state in the Union - as of June this year, but what is perhaps more
> important is companies moving out of the state. I read that of 100
> companies that moved to Texas 40% came from California.
>
> By the way, I read that Farmers Insurance will no longer ensure homes
> in Florida. What is going on?
> The same company seems to be a bit reluctant to operate in California
> also.
>

Perhaps Farmer's just has better management and actuaries
than others.

The Florida phenomenon goes back a few governors to a state
run insurance scheme which changed risk/reward dramatically.

Some background:

"After Hurricane Andrew, the state formed the Florida
Hurricane Catastrophe Fund (FHCF) to protect and maintain
insurance industry capacity. It was founded in 1993 during a
special legislative session and still provides
reimbursements to insurers for a portion of their hurricane
losses."

And a more strict building code raised rebuild costs ( and
should probably reduce catastrophic losses.

"There is now a uniform set of codes across the state that
stipulate all new structures undergo tougher inspections and
be built with shatterproof glass and straps to reinforce
between roof and walls. Many of the new building code
measures were pushed for by the insurance industry in an
effort to reduce loss."

https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2017/08/24/462204.htm

And the 'solution'
"Former state Rep. Don Crane, who was a legislator from 1970
to 1974, knew the levers of power in the state. He used to
own an insurance agency, helping homeowners find insurance.

After being dropped by his own insurance carrier in 2006, he
decided it was time to do something.

One of his first calls was to Bill Ballard, a recently
retired corporate attorney from St. Petersburg.

The idea they settled on was this: Combine Citizens and the
Florida Hurricane Catastrophe Fund, creating a new entity
that offered only hurricane insurance. Private carriers
would handle the more predictable forms of homeowners
insurance, such as fire and theft."

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/03/02/insurance-premiums-legislature-idea-property-hurricane/

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 07:48:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>
>On 8/17/2023 10:02 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>
>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>
>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>
>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>
>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>
>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>
>>> BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>> power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>> (Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>> 1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>> can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>> source goes offline.
>>>
>>> The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>> escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>> as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>> to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>
>>> As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>> some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>
>>> As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>> transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>> per 1000km).
>>
>> I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>> half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>
>Sadly no one reads Bastiat nowadays. Mandated malinvestment
>impoverishes everyone.

But if the government doesn't decide for us what's in our best
interest, who will?

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 07:48:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>
>On 8/17/2023 10:02 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>
>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>
>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>
>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>
>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>
>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>
>>> BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>> power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>> (Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>> 1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>> can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>> source goes offline.
>>>
>>> The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>> escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>> as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>> to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>
>>> As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>> some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>
>>> As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>> transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>> per 1000km).
>>
>> I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>> half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>
>Sadly no one reads Bastiat nowadays. Mandated malinvestment
>impoverishes everyone.

He was obviously some sort of radical. After all in "The Law" he
advocated that "that everyone has a right to protect "his person, his
liberty, and his property". (yes a bit of satire here (:-)

He also stated that, "if government power extends further into
philanthropic endeavors, then government becomes so limitless that it
can grow endlessly".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 8/18/2023 3:02 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 10:02:16 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>
>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>
>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>
>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>
>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>
>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>
>>> BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>> power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>> (Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>> 1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>> can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>> source goes offline.
>>>
>>> The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>> escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>> as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>> to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>
>>> As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>> some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>
>>> As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>> transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>> per 1000km).
>>
>> I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>> half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>
>
> As more and more Californians leave the state.

Perhaps that reflects more than government interference in
the auto market:

https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/lexus-driving-san-francisco-burglar-breaks-into-line-of-cars/

On 8/18/2023 7:53 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 18:59:41 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 06:46:02 -0400, Catrike Rider
>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:58:22 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:02:25 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 10:02:16 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>>>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>>>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>>>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>>>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>>>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>>>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>>>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>>>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>>>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>>>>>> power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>>>>>> (Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>>>>>> 1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>>>>>> can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>>>>>> source goes offline.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>>>>>> escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>>>>>> as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>>>>>> to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>>>>>> some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>>>>>> transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>>>>>> per 1000km).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>>>>>> half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As more and more Californians leave the state.
>>>>
>>>> Based on population figures it doesn't look like that many people but
>>>> that may be because skilled people leaving and unskilled moving in,
>>>> there are, for example 170,000 homeless in the state - the most of any
>>>> state in the Union - as of June this year, but what is perhaps more
>>>> important is companies moving out of the state. I read that of 100
>>>> companies that moved to Texas 40% came from California.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, I read that Farmers Insurance will no longer ensure homes
>>>> in Florida. What is going on?
>>>> The same company seems to be a bit reluctant to operate in California
>>>> also.
>>>
>>> Hurricanes in Florida, fires in California.
>>
>> But how can that be? Tommy has assured us many times that there is no
>> global warming, no climate change, no sea level rising.
>
> Neither the hurricanes, nor the forest fire are because of "global
> warming." They've both been going on for ages.
>
>> I guess the Insurance company just didn't listen to Tom. (:-)

Political propaganda is more popular than actual data:

https://drrichswier.com/wp-content/uploads/Fires-far-worse-last-century-e1508279855272.png

On 8/18/2023 8:06 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 07:48:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 8/17/2023 10:02 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>>
>>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>>
>>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>>
>>>> BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>>> power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>>> (Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>>> 1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>>> can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>>> source goes offline.
>>>>
>>>> The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>>> escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>>> as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>>> to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>>
>>>> As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>>> some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>>
>>>> As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>>> transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>>> per 1000km).
>>>
>>> I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>>> half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>>
>> Sadly no one reads Bastiat nowadays. Mandated malinvestment
>> impoverishes everyone.
>
>
> But if the government doesn't decide for us what's in our best
> interest, who will?

Yes, the critical question as noted by Friedman is, "Who
decides?"

https://www.alibris.com/Free-to-Choose-A-Personal-Statement-Milton-Friedman/book/2450311?matches=278

On 8/18/2023 8:15 AM, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 07:48:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 8/17/2023 10:02 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>>
>>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>>
>>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>>
>>>> BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>>> power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>>> (Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>>> 1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>>> can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>>> source goes offline.
>>>>
>>>> The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>>> escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>>> as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>>> to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>>
>>>> As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>>> some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>>
>>>> As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>>> transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>>> per 1000km).
>>>
>>> I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>>> half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>>
>> Sadly no one reads Bastiat nowadays. Mandated malinvestment
>> impoverishes everyone.
>
> He was obviously some sort of radical. After all in "The Law" he
> advocated that "that everyone has a right to protect "his person, his
> liberty, and his property". (yes a bit of satire here (:-)
>
> He also stated that, "if government power extends further into
> philanthropic endeavors, then government becomes so limitless that it
> can grow endlessly".
>

Yes, exactly.

Wise beyond his era. A truly inspired thinker.

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:02:41 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>
>On 8/18/2023 3:58 AM, John B. wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:02:25 -0400, Catrike Rider
>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 10:02:16 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>>>> power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>>>> (Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>>>> 1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>>>> can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>>>> source goes offline.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>>>> escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>>>> as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>>>> to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>>>
>>>>> As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>>>> some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>>>
>>>>> As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>>>> transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>>>> per 1000km).
>>>>
>>>> I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>>>> half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>>>
>>>
>>> As more and more Californians leave the state.
>>
>> Based on population figures it doesn't look like that many people but
>> that may be because skilled people leaving and unskilled moving in,
>> there are, for example 170,000 homeless in the state - the most of any
>> state in the Union - as of June this year, but what is perhaps more
>> important is companies moving out of the state. I read that of 100
>> companies that moved to Texas 40% came from California.
>>
>> By the way, I read that Farmers Insurance will no longer ensure homes
>> in Florida. What is going on?
>> The same company seems to be a bit reluctant to operate in California
>> also.
>>
>
>Perhaps Farmer's just has better management and actuaries
>than others.
>
>
>The Florida phenomenon goes back a few governors to a state
>run insurance scheme which changed risk/reward dramatically.
>
>Some background:
>
>"After Hurricane Andrew, the state formed the Florida
>Hurricane Catastrophe Fund (FHCF) to protect and maintain
>insurance industry capacity. It was founded in 1993 during a
>special legislative session and still provides
>reimbursements to insurers for a portion of their hurricane
>losses."
>
>And a more strict building code raised rebuild costs ( and
>should probably reduce catastrophic losses.
>
>"There is now a uniform set of codes across the state that
>stipulate all new structures undergo tougher inspections and
>be built with shatterproof glass and straps to reinforce
>between roof and walls. Many of the new building code
>measures were pushed for by the insurance industry in an
>effort to reduce loss."
>
>https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2017/08/24/462204.htm
>
>And the 'solution'
>"Former state Rep. Don Crane, who was a legislator from 1970
>to 1974, knew the levers of power in the state. He used to
>own an insurance agency, helping homeowners find insurance.
>
>After being dropped by his own insurance carrier in 2006, he
>decided it was time to do something.
>
>One of his first calls was to Bill Ballard, a recently
>retired corporate attorney from St. Petersburg.
>
>The idea they settled on was this: Combine Citizens and the
>Florida Hurricane Catastrophe Fund, creating a new entity
>that offered only hurricane insurance. Private carriers
>would handle the more predictable forms of homeowners
>insurance, such as fire and theft."
>
>https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/03/02/insurance-premiums-legislature-idea-property-hurricane/

That plan never made it, though. The state run insurance is not
limited to just hurricanes.

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:26:38 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>
>On 8/18/2023 3:02 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 10:02:16 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>>
>>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>>
>>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>>
>>>> BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>>> power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>>> (Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>>> 1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>>> can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>>> source goes offline.
>>>>
>>>> The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>>> escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>>> as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>>> to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>>
>>>> As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>>> some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>>
>>>> As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>>> transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>>> per 1000km).
>>>
>>> I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>>> half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>>
>>
>> As more and more Californians leave the state.
>
>Perhaps that reflects more than government interference in
>the auto market:
>
>https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/lexus-driving-san-francisco-burglar-breaks-into-line-of-cars/

Crime is also a government problem

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:29:13 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>
>On 8/18/2023 7:53 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 18:59:41 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 06:46:02 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:58:22 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:02:25 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 10:02:16 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>>>>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>>>>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>>>>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>>>>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>>>>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>>>>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>>>>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>>>>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>>>>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>>>>>>> power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>>>>>>> (Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>>>>>>> 1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>>>>>>> can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>>>>>>> source goes offline.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>>>>>>> escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>>>>>>> as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>>>>>>> to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>>>>>>> some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>>>>>>> transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>>>>>>> per 1000km).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>>>>>>> half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As more and more Californians leave the state.
>>>>>
>>>>> Based on population figures it doesn't look like that many people but
>>>>> that may be because skilled people leaving and unskilled moving in,
>>>>> there are, for example 170,000 homeless in the state - the most of any
>>>>> state in the Union - as of June this year, but what is perhaps more
>>>>> important is companies moving out of the state. I read that of 100
>>>>> companies that moved to Texas 40% came from California.
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, I read that Farmers Insurance will no longer ensure homes
>>>>> in Florida. What is going on?
>>>>> The same company seems to be a bit reluctant to operate in California
>>>>> also.
>>>>
>>>> Hurricanes in Florida, fires in California.
>>>
>>> But how can that be? Tommy has assured us many times that there is no
>>> global warming, no climate change, no sea level rising.
>>
>> Neither the hurricanes, nor the forest fire are because of "global
>> warming." They've both been going on for ages.
>>
>>> I guess the Insurance company just didn't listen to Tom. (:-)
>
>
>Political propaganda is more popular than actual data:
>
>https://drrichswier.com/wp-content/uploads/Fires-far-worse-last-century-e1508279855272.png

More people living in places where fires occur.

On 8/18/2023 8:37 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:26:38 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 8/18/2023 3:02 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 10:02:16 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>>>> power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>>>> (Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>>>> 1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>>>> can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>>>> source goes offline.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>>>> escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>>>> as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>>>> to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>>>
>>>>> As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>>>> some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>>>
>>>>> As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>>>> transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>>>> per 1000km).
>>>>
>>>> I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>>>> half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>>>
>>>
>>> As more and more Californians leave the state.
>>
>> Perhaps that reflects more than government interference in
>> the auto market:
>>
>> https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/lexus-driving-san-francisco-burglar-breaks-into-line-of-cars/
>
> Crime is also a government problem

Which leads to extrajudicial solutions:

https://cwbchicago.com/2023/08/pizzeria-worker-severely-injured-armed-robber-with-pizza-cutter-chicago-police-say.html

https://710wor.iheart.com/content/2023-08-17-woman-fatally-shoots-registered-sex-offender-breaking-into-her-home/

Although some people feel it's better to bleed out while
waiting for 911 to come write a report.

T
On 8/18/2023 1:58 AM, John B. wrote:

>> As more and more Californians leave the state.
>
> Based on population figures it doesn't look like that many people but
> that may be because skilled people leaving and unskilled moving in,

Yes, the population of California is still increasing, albeit slowly.
More people are coming in than are moving out. There is still a net
influx of high-income tech workers and an outflow of older residents
looking to cash out of their high-value houses. The increased property
taxes when homes are sold is a good thing. But when extremely wealthy
people leave, this hurts state income taxes, though there isn't a huge
number of such individuals.

South Florida is on its last mortgage cycle. Getting a new mortgage will
require a very large down payment as well as a huge insurance premium
since so few companies are willing to insure houses in Florida. It's
really not fair because the northern part of the state is not really
subject to the same climate change issues of flooding and hurricanes.

Earlier this year, my brother's house in south Florida was flooded. He's
lived there for about 45 years and this is the first time the rain was
so heavy and prolonged that a significant portion of the city flooded.
He had no flood insurance because he had never seen a need, which was a
lucky thing. FEMA paid him quickly and he was not out any money at all
despite a five figure dollar amount. Those with flood insurance were
worse off because they were not entitled to FEMA money until they paid
their flood insurance deductible and received their flood insurance
payout, then if they were still not made whole FEMA might give them
something.

Personally I think that purchasers of homes in that area that they must
have flood insurance, that it is unfair that they be bailed out (no pun
intended) for making bad purchasing decisions. For existing homeowners
that owned their homes there should also be some requirement for some
flood insurance.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:33:46 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>
>On 8/18/2023 8:15 AM, John B. wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 07:48:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 8/17/2023 10:02 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:38:17 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/17/2023 2:18 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes cars use a lot of energy to move around, hence being able to run,
>>>>>> houses for few days off the car.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same is true with gas/oil/coal for heating the amount used per year is
>>>>>> relatively low in comparison.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bikes is often quoted as the or one of the most efficient way to travel ie
>>>>>> relatively low amounts of energy to move quickly and far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe that market for 2nd had EV batteries isn’t there yet mainly as
>>>>>> bar the Nissan Leaf that old batteries are still in the cars for most part
>>>>>> note that the oldest of this generation of EV are what 10 years old so bar
>>>>>> Nissan Leaf or folks that did intergalactic mileage’s batteries are still
>>>>>> in the cars essentially.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s not like your mobile phone that is small and powerful and thus runs
>>>>>> hot, and often is used poorly ie run to zero.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In general larger batteries seem to last better in my experience, be that
>>>>>> iPad vs iPhone or the batteries in E bikes or cars and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> BART does have some natural gas generators that generate 480V 3 phase AC
>>>>> power. These are used, in areas where there are more frequent PSPS
>>>>> (Public Safety Power Shutoffs), to power the station, but not the
>>>>> 1000VDC traction motors of the trains. The 1000VDC power for the trains
>>>>> can be routed from different areas of the system in the event one power
>>>>> source goes offline.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only part of a station that may not work during a PSPS is the
>>>>> escalators, which require about 15KW to run. The elevators still work,
>>>>> as does lighting and ticket machines. BART also has emergency generators
>>>>> to power fans in the tunnels in case of a power failure.
>>>>>
>>>>> As to where the system's grid electricity comes from, almost certainly
>>>>> some portion of it comes from fossil fuel generators, for now.
>>>>>
>>>>> As the U.S. moves more to EVs, we'll need more HVDC long distance
>>>>> transmission lines since those lines have the lowest losses (about 3.5%
>>>>> per 1000km).
>>>>
>>>> I read that California has concocted a new law that in a few years
>>>> half the trucks sold in the state must be electric.
>>>
>>> Sadly no one reads Bastiat nowadays. Mandated malinvestment
>>> impoverishes everyone.
>>
>> He was obviously some sort of radical. After all in "The Law" he
>> advocated that "that everyone has a right to protect "his person, his
>> liberty, and his property". (yes a bit of satire here (:-)
>>
>> He also stated that, "if government power extends further into
>> philanthropic endeavors, then government becomes so limitless that it
>> can grow endlessly".
>>
>
>Yes, exactly.
>
>Wise beyond his era. A truly inspired thinker.

And Abraham Lincoln said "a government of the people, by the people
and for the people"

And (:-) it might remembered that the "United States" was formed to
be, literally, a union made of the States who administrated their own
affairs. As James Madison stated, “The powers reserved to the several
States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of
affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people,
and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State,”

--
Cheers,

John B.