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tech / sci.math / Re: Natural numbers and vases

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=102130&group=sci.math#102130

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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by: WM - Mon, 6 Jun 2022 18:21 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=102131&group=sci.math#102131

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
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by: William - Mon, 6 Jun 2022 18:33 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=102143&group=sci.math#102143

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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by: WM - Mon, 6 Jun 2022 20:21 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<t7lt5g$oe$2@gioia.aioe.org>

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2022 16:56:00 -0500
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by: sergi o - Mon, 6 Jun 2022 21:56 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<t7luud$kes$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: inva...@invalid.com (sergi o)
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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2022 17:26:21 -0500
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by: sergi o - Mon, 6 Jun 2022 22:26 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
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by: William - Tue, 7 Jun 2022 01:06 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<00392432-31b1-4fc8-b9d5-cbfda829cc39n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
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by: William - Tue, 7 Jun 2022 01:16 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<t7mhf5$ciu$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=102191&group=sci.math#102191

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Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2022 22:42:28 -0500
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by: sergi o - Tue, 7 Jun 2022 03:42 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<t7nhqt$6dv$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2022 07:54:53 -0500
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by: sergi o - Tue, 7 Jun 2022 12:54 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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by: WM - Tue, 7 Jun 2022 14:06 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=102240&group=sci.math#102240

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
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by: William - Tue, 7 Jun 2022 14:51 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
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by: FromTheRafters - Tue, 7 Jun 2022 15:52 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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by: WM - Tue, 7 Jun 2022 15:56 UTC

William schrieb am Dienstag, 7. Juni 2022 um 16:51:53 UTC+2:
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 11:06:08 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > William schrieb am Dienstag, 7. Juni 2022 um 03:16:45 UTC+2:
> > > On Monday, June 6, 2022 at 5:21:25 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > > > William schrieb am Montag, 6. Juni 2022 um 20:33:34 UTC+2:
> > >
> > > > I claim what is obvious: Exchanging X and O will never increase or decrease any of them.
> > > True. So what. This does not determine the number of O's in the state "all exchanges are done" After you an exchange X and an O, there are still exchanges to be done. You never get to the state "all exchanges are done".
> > The state is named after what has been expected: All exchanges are done, i.e.e, all fractions have been indexed step by step.
> Step by step is not possible as it never finishes.

Then what Cantor said is not possible: "M and N, can be related completely, element by element, to each other"

> Step by step can only get to finite numbers. "All fractions have been indexed" means that a set of fractions with cardinality aleph_0 has been indexed.

The set is not to be indexed. Its elements, the fractions have to be indexed. All of them, completely, element by element.

You agree that this is not possible?

You agree that Cantor's second diagonal argument is invalid because the infinite list cannot be indexed by steps?

> While any finite part of "All fractions" can be indexed step by step, the set "All fractions" cannot.
>
Note that indexing means ordering step by step. Because the indexes are ordered step by step.

> The elements of the set are finite, the set is infinite.

The elements are to be indexed. The set does not need an index. And if so, give it the index 1 for set number one.

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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by: WM - Tue, 7 Jun 2022 15:59 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
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by: sergi o - Tue, 7 Jun 2022 16:10 UTC

On 6/7/2022 10:59 AM, WM wrote:
> FromTheRafters schrieb am Dienstag, 7. Juni 2022 um 17:53:04 UTC+2:
>> on 6/7/2022, WM supposed :
>>>
>>> William schrieb am Dienstag, 7. Juni 2022 um 03:16:45 UTC+2:
>>>> On Monday, June 6, 2022 at 5:21:25 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>>>> William schrieb am Montag, 6. Juni 2022 um 20:33:34 UTC+2:
>>>>> I claim what is obvious: Exchanging X and O will never increase or decrease
>>>>> any of them.
>>>> True. So what. This does not determine the number of O's in the state "all
>>>> exchanges are done" After you an exchange X and an O, there are still
>>>> exchanges to be done. You never get to the state "all exchanges are done".
>>>
>>> The state is named after what has been expected: All exchanges are done,
>>> i.e.e, all fractions have been indexed step by step. If this is not possible,
>>> then the name is a lie.
>> Why is a step-by-step notion so necessary to your understanding of
>> anything?
>
> The natural numbers are ordered step by step.

sure, start at k, add 1, => k + 1 now what?

> Recognizing the impossibility is recognizing Cantor's failure.

Oh, you do not know Mathematical Induction,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction

use that to put your natural numbers in order.

Cantor proved it, so you won't be able to un-prove it.

> In addition his second diagonal argument fails because the list cannot be ordered step by step.

well, you clearly do not understand induction, nor Cantor, and besides your arguments will always fail, because Cantor mathematically proved it.

>
> Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
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by: William - Tue, 7 Jun 2022 21:46 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
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Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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by: WM - Wed, 8 Jun 2022 13:06 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<7b0196e4-9777-42a6-9466-5e0643cc31d9n@googlegroups.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=102349&group=sci.math#102349

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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by: WM - Wed, 8 Jun 2022 13:15 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<t7q8pm$vcj$1@dont-email.me>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=102353&group=sci.math#102353

copy link Newsgroups: sci.math

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From: nom...@afraid.org (FromTheRafters)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2022 09:38:57 -0400
Organization: Peripheral Visions
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by: FromTheRafters - Wed, 8 Jun 2022 13:38 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<2f77aef3-bbb4-4fb1-979f-2f768c4f7d3cn@googlegroups.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=102354&group=sci.math#102354

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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by: WM - Wed, 8 Jun 2022 13:46 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<440d80e8-00ed-469d-a45f-0f5edebe9d49n@googlegroups.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=102356&group=sci.math#102356

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
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by: William - Wed, 8 Jun 2022 14:06 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=102357&group=sci.math#102357

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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by: WM - Wed, 8 Jun 2022 14:20 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=102366&group=sci.math#102366

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
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by: William - Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:10 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <9f8e96b2-2e56-47a4-99ab-5842728864fan@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
Injection-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2022 19:17:39 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 9459

by: WM - Wed, 8 Jun 2022 19:17 UTC

Subject	Author
Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Ross A. Finlayson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	FromTheRafters
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Jim Burns
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Jim Burns
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Jim Burns
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Jim Burns
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chet Hirasi
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chet Hirasi
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	FredJeffries
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	FromTheRafters
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	zelos...@gmail.com
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	zelos...@gmail.com
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	zelos...@gmail.com
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	zelos...@gmail.com
Re: Natural numbers and vases	zelos...@gmail.com
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	zelos...@gmail.com
Re: Natural numbers and vases	zelos...@gmail.com
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Jim Burns
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Ross A. Finlayson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Mostowski Collapse
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Socratis T.n.p.