https://www.facebook.com/reel/907143407238995?s=yWDuG2&fs=e

On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 4:38:09 PM UTC-7, RichA wrote:
> On Friday, 5 May 2023 at 17:31:47 UTC-4, StarDust wrote:
> > https://www.facebook.com/reel/907143407238995?s=yWDuG2&fs=e
>
> Owing to the distances between stars in a galaxy arm, we probably wouldn't even notice it, other
> than seeing it.

It's just a billion years compressed into 10 second!

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In article <efb40a37-8c8e-47c8-b965-93681f571216n@googlegroups.com>
RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Friday, 5 May 2023 at 17:31:47 UTC-4, StarDust wrote:
> > https://www.facebook.com/reel/907143407238995?s=yWDuG2&fs=e
>
> Owing to the distances between stars in a galaxy arm, we probably wouldn't even notice it, other
> than seeing it.

NONE of us are going to see it!

Colonel Bleep <bleep@zerozeroisland.invalid>

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On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 11:49:32 PM UTC-6, Colonel Bleep wrote:

> In article <efb40a37-8c8e-47c8...@googlegroups.com>
> RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Owing to the distances between stars in a galaxy arm, we probably wouldn't even notice it, other
> > than seeing it.

> NONE of us are going to see it!

Well, it's certainly true that since it is to happen some
four and a half billion years in the future, it is unlikely
anyone currently participating in this discussion will
be still around to witness it.

However, what he was saying had nothing to do with
that. He was talking about the possible consequences
of this collision, when it happened - not who would
be among those affected by it, or not, as the case may
be.

I am not so optimistic, though.

Yes, four light years, the distance between our Sun and
the closest star, is quite a long ways.

Another galaxy collides with our galaxy, and brings with
us a large portion of itself that will pass through our
stellar neighborhood.

After the first eight light years' worth of a part of the
Andromeda galaxy that is as dense with stars as our
part of our galaxy, the odds are that some star will
pass within 2 light years of Earth.

But the spiral arms of galaxies are rather big. So, before
the collision is over, the odds that some star in the
Andromeda galaxy will pass close enough to Earth to
disturb the Oort cloud, and thus send asteroids raining
down on the Earth, would seem to me rather good.

And remember that our galaxy _rotates_. This would
seem to mean that it's not actually as likely as it seems that
the Andromeda galaxy could just pass through another
part of our galaxy, and miss our neighborhood entirely.

And observations of the aftermath of other galactic collisons
show that a lot of stars get flung out into space - with enough
violence that they are unlikely to have been accompanied by
their planets.

John Savard

On Sun, 14 May 2023 23:16:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 11:49:32?PM UTC-6, Colonel Bleep wrote:
>
>> In article <efb40a37-8c8e-47c8...@googlegroups.com>
>> RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Owing to the distances between stars in a galaxy arm, we probably wouldn't even notice it, other
>> > than seeing it.
>
>> NONE of us are going to see it!
>
>Well, it's certainly true that since it is to happen some
>four and a half billion years in the future, it is unlikely
>anyone currently participating in this discussion will
>be still around to witness it.
>
>However, what he was saying had nothing to do with
>that. He was talking about the possible consequences
>of this collision, when it happened - not who would
>be among those affected by it, or not, as the case may
>be.
>
>I am not so optimistic, though.
>
>Yes, four light years, the distance between our Sun and
>the closest star, is quite a long ways.
>
>Another galaxy collides with our galaxy, and brings with
>us a large portion of itself that will pass through our
>stellar neighborhood.
>
>After the first eight light years' worth of a part of the
>Andromeda galaxy that is as dense with stars as our
>part of our galaxy, the odds are that some star will
>pass within 2 light years of Earth.
>
>But the spiral arms of galaxies are rather big. So, before
>the collision is over, the odds that some star in the
>Andromeda galaxy will pass close enough to Earth to
>disturb the Oort cloud, and thus send asteroids raining
>down on the Earth, would seem to me rather good.
>
>And remember that our galaxy _rotates_. This would
>seem to mean that it's not actually as likely as it seems that
>the Andromeda galaxy could just pass through another
>part of our galaxy, and miss our neighborhood entirely.
>
>And observations of the aftermath of other galactic collisons
>show that a lot of stars get flung out into space - with enough
>violence that they are unlikely to have been accompanied by
>their planets.
>
>John Savard

It's worse than disturbing the Oort cloud. That has happened before,
and life on Earth survived. The real problem is that if a star passes
within a light year or so (depending on the mass of the star) it will
perturb the orbits of the planets. And it doesn't take very much to
make the Earth uninhabitable. That's why it's unlikely that there are
any planets with complex life in globular clusters or galactic bulges.

On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 8:14:46 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Sun, 14 May 2023 23:16:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 11:49:32?PM UTC-6, Colonel Bleep wrote:
> >
> >> In article <efb40a37-8c8e-47c8...@googlegroups.com>
> >> RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > Owing to the distances between stars in a galaxy arm, we probably wouldn't even notice it, other
> >> > than seeing it.
> >
> >> NONE of us are going to see it!
> >
> >Well, it's certainly true that since it is to happen some
> >four and a half billion years in the future, it is unlikely
> >anyone currently participating in this discussion will
> >be still around to witness it.
> >
> >However, what he was saying had nothing to do with
> >that. He was talking about the possible consequences
> >of this collision, when it happened - not who would
> >be among those affected by it, or not, as the case may
> >be.
> >
> >I am not so optimistic, though.
> >
> >Yes, four light years, the distance between our Sun and
> >the closest star, is quite a long ways.
> >
> >Another galaxy collides with our galaxy, and brings with
> >us a large portion of itself that will pass through our
> >stellar neighborhood.
> >
> >After the first eight light years' worth of a part of the
> >Andromeda galaxy that is as dense with stars as our
> >part of our galaxy, the odds are that some star will
> >pass within 2 light years of Earth.
> >
> >But the spiral arms of galaxies are rather big. So, before
> >the collision is over, the odds that some star in the
> >Andromeda galaxy will pass close enough to Earth to
> >disturb the Oort cloud, and thus send asteroids raining
> >down on the Earth, would seem to me rather good.
> >
> >And remember that our galaxy _rotates_. This would
> >seem to mean that it's not actually as likely as it seems that
> >the Andromeda galaxy could just pass through another
> >part of our galaxy, and miss our neighborhood entirely.
> >
> >And observations of the aftermath of other galactic collisons
> >show that a lot of stars get flung out into space - with enough
> >violence that they are unlikely to have been accompanied by
> >their planets.
> >
> >John Savard
> It's worse than disturbing the Oort cloud. That has happened before,
> and life on Earth survived. The real problem is that if a star passes
> within a light year or so (depending on the mass of the star) it will
> perturb the orbits of the planets. And it doesn't take very much to
> make the Earth uninhabitable. That's why it's unlikely that there are
> any planets with complex life in globular clusters or galactic bulges.

We're just stardust anyway!

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In article <91d06bac-64b0-4d22-8ec7-a84721b3ca27n@googlegroups.com>
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
> On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 11:49:32?PM UTC-6, Colonel Bleep wrote:
>
> > In article <efb40a37-8c8e-47c8...@googlegroups.com>
> > RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Owing to the distances between stars in a galaxy arm, we probably wouldn't even notice it, other
> > > than seeing it.
>
> > NONE of us are going to see it!
>
> Well, it's certainly true that since it is to happen some
> four and a half billion years in the future, it is unlikely
> anyone currently participating in this discussion will
> be still around to witness it.

Yeah, I just wanted to note that, even though I think most people
here know they're not going to see the event(s).

> However, what he was saying had nothing to do with
> that. He was talking about the possible consequences
> of this collision, when it happened - not who would
> be among those affected by it, or not, as the case may
> be.

Well, I thought it would be a good idea to mention that.

> I am not so optimistic, though.

Can we be optimistic or pessimistic about something that will not
occur until humanity has long since ceased to exist?

As for the rest of it, yes, those are all possible consequences.
How squarely M31 will smack the Milky Way is not, AFAIK, clear just
yet. The two galaxies may brush past each other and the
gravitational effects may be all that happens, in the first pass.
Eventually, of course ....

> Yes, four light years, the distance between our Sun and
> the closest star, is quite a long ways.
>
> Another galaxy collides with our galaxy, and brings with
> us a large portion of itself that will pass through our
> stellar neighborhood.
>
> After the first eight light years' worth of a part of the
> Andromeda galaxy that is as dense with stars as our
> part of our galaxy, the odds are that some star will
> pass within 2 light years of Earth.
>
> But the spiral arms of galaxies are rather big. So, before
> the collision is over, the odds that some star in the
> Andromeda galaxy will pass close enough to Earth to
> disturb the Oort cloud, and thus send asteroids raining
> down on the Earth, would seem to me rather good.
>
> And remember that our galaxy _rotates_. This would
> seem to mean that it's not actually as likely as it seems that
> the Andromeda galaxy could just pass through another
> part of our galaxy, and miss our neighborhood entirely.
>
> And observations of the aftermath of other galactic collisons
> show that a lot of stars get flung out into space - with enough
> violence that they are unlikely to have been accompanied by
> their planets.

Colonel Bleep <bleep@zerozeroisland.invalid>

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In article <5qi46i5jl0hh32vk4gl0c42nlbjgdrmu60@4ax.com>
Chris L Peterson <clp@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 14 May 2023 23:16:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 11:49:32?PM UTC-6, Colonel Bleep wrote:
> >
> >> In article <efb40a37-8c8e-47c8...@googlegroups.com>
> >> RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > Owing to the distances between stars in a galaxy arm, we probably wouldn't even notice it, other
> >> > than seeing it.
> >
> >> NONE of us are going to see it!
> >
> >Well, it's certainly true that since it is to happen some
> >four and a half billion years in the future, it is unlikely
> >anyone currently participating in this discussion will
> >be still around to witness it.
> >
> >However, what he was saying had nothing to do with
> >that. He was talking about the possible consequences
> >of this collision, when it happened - not who would
> >be among those affected by it, or not, as the case may
> >be.
> >
> >I am not so optimistic, though.
> >
> >Yes, four light years, the distance between our Sun and
> >the closest star, is quite a long ways.
> >
> >Another galaxy collides with our galaxy, and brings with
> >us a large portion of itself that will pass through our
> >stellar neighborhood.
> >
> >After the first eight light years' worth of a part of the
> >Andromeda galaxy that is as dense with stars as our
> >part of our galaxy, the odds are that some star will
> >pass within 2 light years of Earth.
> >
> >But the spiral arms of galaxies are rather big. So, before
> >the collision is over, the odds that some star in the
> >Andromeda galaxy will pass close enough to Earth to
> >disturb the Oort cloud, and thus send asteroids raining
> >down on the Earth, would seem to me rather good.
> >
> >And remember that our galaxy _rotates_. This would
> >seem to mean that it's not actually as likely as it seems that
> >the Andromeda galaxy could just pass through another
> >part of our galaxy, and miss our neighborhood entirely.
> >
> >And observations of the aftermath of other galactic collisons
> >show that a lot of stars get flung out into space - with enough
> >violence that they are unlikely to have been accompanied by
> >their planets.
> >
> >John Savard
>
> It's worse than disturbing the Oort cloud. That has happened before,
> and life on Earth survived. The real problem is that if a star passes
> within a light year or so (depending on the mass of the star) it will
> perturb the orbits of the planets. And it doesn't take very much to
> make the Earth uninhabitable. That's why it's unlikely that there are
> any planets with complex life in globular clusters or galactic bulges.

I do wonder if things could "settle down" for a long time in
globular clusters or galactic bulges for long enough for
civilizations to evolve. They'd stand a good chance of being erased
by the crowded nature of the neighborhood eventually, but maybe
some could exist for a while. Just my idle speculation.

Colonel Bleep <bleep@zerozeroisland.invalid>

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>>
>> It's worse than disturbing the Oort cloud. That has happened before,
>> and life on Earth survived. The real problem is that if a star passes
>> within a light year or so (depending on the mass of the star) it will
>> perturb the orbits of the planets. And it doesn't take very much to
>> make the Earth uninhabitable. That's why it's unlikely that there are
>> any planets with complex life in globular clusters or galactic bulges.
>
>I do wonder if things could "settle down" for a long time in
>globular clusters or galactic bulges for long enough for
>civilizations to evolve. They'd stand a good chance of being erased
>by the crowded nature of the neighborhood eventually, but maybe
>some could exist for a while. Just my idle speculation.

Considering Earth as our only example (and some theoretical ideas) it
took several billion years for complex life to develop, which is
presumably a prerequisite for highly intelligent life. In a globular
cluster the entire process of abiogenesis through civilization would
have to occur in millions of years or less.