https://www.renehersecycles.com/uae-tour-and-tubeless-what-is-safe/

"If even the ace mechanics of pro teams can’t keep high-end
tires and rims stay together, what does this mean for
average cyclists? "
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/5/2024 1:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> https://www.renehersecycles.com/uae-tour-and-tubeless-what-is-safe/
>
> "If even the ace mechanics of pro teams can’t keep high-end tires and
> rims stay together, what does this mean for average cyclists? "

I just read that. From what I gather, tubeless benefits of lower rolling
resistance are minimal and unimportant for non-racers. And I don't get
very many flats, since I generally ride where car tires keep the
pavement clean. Tubeless seems unappealing on a benefit vs. detriment
basis.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue Mar 5 12:38:52 2024 AMuzi wrote:
> https://www.renehersecycles.com/uae-tour-and-tubeless-what-is-safe/
>
> "If even the ace mechanics of pro teams can?t keep high-end
> tires and rims stay together, what does this mean for
> average cyclists? "
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> am@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Well to be more open about that - those were hookless rims. And it was cyclocross which can even throw tubulars on occassion.

But yes, I don't like the idea of hookless rims.

On Tue Mar 5 15:53:35 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/5/2024 1:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > https://www.renehersecycles.com/uae-tour-and-tubeless-what-is-safe/
> >
> > "If even the ace mechanics of pro teams can?t keep high-end tires and
> > rims stay together, what does this mean for average cyclists? "
>
> I just read that. From what I gather, tubeless benefits of lower rolling
> resistance are minimal and unimportant for non-racers. And I don't get
> very many flats, since I generally ride where car tires keep the
> pavement clean. Tubeless seems unappealing on a benefit vs. detriment
> basis.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>

I had that spat of getting 10 flats in 12 rides. All on different tires and new tubes and all pin point leaks. That now seem to have stopped, but it is a data point and if you ride as much as me you could get the same sort of constant flats that tubeless wouls not allow to happen.

I bought a tire jack to use to put tubeless on so that it is less of a problem. But they are still a pain in the ass to get off even when all of the air is gone. But if that number of rides with flats continued I would go back to tubeless.

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 3/5/2024 1:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> https://www.renehersecycles.com/uae-tour-and-tubeless-what-is-safe/
>>
>> "If even the ace mechanics of pro teams can’t keep high-end tires and
>> rims stay together, what does this mean for average cyclists? "
>
> I just read that. From what I gather, tubeless benefits of lower rolling
> resistance are minimal and unimportant for non-racers. And I don't get
> very many flats, since I generally ride where car tires keep the
> pavement clean. Tubeless seems unappealing on a benefit vs. detriment
> basis.
>

I’d question that pro teams being the top mechanic, or rather where their
focus is ie it’s a fast set up on other thread is suggestion that they may
have not done due diligence in terms of compatibility set up, let alone how
close to the limit they are pushing the tires/rim ie how high a pressure,
and old habits die hard and all that.

Roger Merriman

On Tue Mar 5 23:49:19 2024 Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > On 3/5/2024 1:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> https://www.renehersecycles.com/uae-tour-and-tubeless-what-is-safe/
> >>
> >> "If even the ace mechanics of pro teams can?t keep high-end tires and
> >> rims stay together, what does this mean for average cyclists? "
> >
> > I just read that. From what I gather, tubeless benefits of lower rolling
> > resistance are minimal and unimportant for non-racers. And I don't get
> > very many flats, since I generally ride where car tires keep the
> > pavement clean. Tubeless seems unappealing on a benefit vs. detriment
> > basis.
> >
>
> I?d question that pro teams being the top mechanic, or rather where their
> focus is ie it?s a fast set up on other thread is suggestion that they may
> have not done due diligence in terms of compatibility set up, let alone how
> close to the limit they are pushing the tires/rim ie how high a pressure,
> and old habits die hard and all that.
>
> Roger Merriman
>

Well, you're saying that you have to have a lot more data. Bike team mechanics in my experience weere the best of the best. Not that there weren't just as good bike shop mechanics, but shop mechanics aren't pressed to finish 16 bikes every night from top to bottom. But in order to have something to fix, the rider has to be able to identify it close enough that the mechanic at least knows where to start and the new 12 and 13 speed setups are getting difficult to idenbtifying problems. My BMC 12 speed Campy has this very odd problem of shifting high ring to low ring perfectly in the largest 4 cogs but anywhere else it will throw the chain or not shift rings. Everything appears to be properly aligned and the chain if anything is a little too close to the big ring and allows just enough room for the chain while in the big ring.

I would normally figure it to be the front derailleur to be too high or going too far on the outside of the big rings but that isn't it. And when it won't shift all I have to do is shift into one of the larger cogs and it shifts perfectly. The derailleur is perfectly aligned. So what the hell is it?

On Tue, 5 Mar 2024 12:38:52 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>https://www.renehersecycles.com/uae-tour-and-tubeless-what-is-safe/
>
>"If even the ace mechanics of pro teams can’t keep high-end
>tires and rims stay together, what does this mean for
>average cyclists? "

I used to use "sew-ups". In fact had I not given the "sew-up" bike to
a nephew I'd might still be riding it.

If I got a flat I could rip the flat off, pop on the spare and inflate
it with the CO2 cartridge, almost in seconds. Much faster then with
conventional tires :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/5/2024 6:36 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tue Mar 5 23:49:19 2024 Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 3/5/2024 1:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> https://www.renehersecycles.com/uae-tour-and-tubeless-what-is-safe/
>>>>
>>>> "If even the ace mechanics of pro teams can?t keep high-end tires and
>>>> rims stay together, what does this mean for average cyclists? "
>>>
>>> I just read that. From what I gather, tubeless benefits of lower rolling
>>> resistance are minimal and unimportant for non-racers. And I don't get
>>> very many flats, since I generally ride where car tires keep the
>>> pavement clean. Tubeless seems unappealing on a benefit vs. detriment
>>> basis.
>>>
>>
>> I?d question that pro teams being the top mechanic, or rather where their
>> focus is ie it?s a fast set up on other thread is suggestion that they may
>> have not done due diligence in terms of compatibility set up, let alone how
>> close to the limit they are pushing the tires/rim ie how high a pressure,
>> and old habits die hard and all that.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>>
>
>
>
>
> Well, you're saying that you have to have a lot more data. Bike team mechanics in my experience weere the best of the best. Not that there weren't just as good bike shop mechanics, but shop mechanics aren't pressed to finish 16 bikes every night from top to bottom. But in order to have something to fix, the rider has to be able to identify it close enough that the mechanic at least knows where to start and the new 12 and 13 speed setups are getting difficult to idenbtifying problems. My BMC 12 speed Campy has this very odd problem of shifting high ring to low ring perfectly in the largest 4 cogs but anywhere else it will throw the chain or not shift rings. Everything appears to be properly aligned and the chain if anything is a little too close to the big ring and allows just enough room for the chain while in the big ring.
>
>
>
> I would normally figure it to be the front derailleur to be too high or going too far on the outside of the big rings but that isn't it. And when it won't shift all I have to do is shift into one of the larger cogs and it shifts perfectly. The derailleur is perfectly aligned. So what the hell is it?

You answered that above. See an experienced and skilled
mechanic for diagnosis.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/5/2024 7:54 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Mar 2024 12:38:52 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> https://www.renehersecycles.com/uae-tour-and-tubeless-what-is-safe/
>>
>> "If even the ace mechanics of pro teams can’t keep high-end
>> tires and rims stay together, what does this mean for
>> average cyclists? "
>
>
> I used to use "sew-ups". In fact had I not given the "sew-up" bike to
> a nephew I'd might still be riding it.
>
> If I got a flat I could rip the flat off, pop on the spare and inflate
> it with the CO2 cartridge, almost in seconds. Much faster then with
> conventional tires :-)
>

+1
Works for me.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tue Mar 5 23:49:19 2024 Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 3/5/2024 1:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> https://www.renehersecycles.com/uae-tour-and-tubeless-what-is-safe/
>>>>
>>>> "If even the ace mechanics of pro teams can?t keep high-end tires and
>>>> rims stay together, what does this mean for average cyclists? "
>>>
>>> I just read that. From what I gather, tubeless benefits of lower rolling
>>> resistance are minimal and unimportant for non-racers. And I don't get
>>> very many flats, since I generally ride where car tires keep the
>>> pavement clean. Tubeless seems unappealing on a benefit vs. detriment
>>> basis.
>>>
>>
>> I?d question that pro teams being the top mechanic, or rather where their
>> focus is ie it?s a fast set up on other thread is suggestion that they may
>> have not done due diligence in terms of compatibility set up, let alone how
>> close to the limit they are pushing the tires/rim ie how high a pressure,
>> and old habits die hard and all that.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>>
>
>
>
>
> Well, you're saying that you have to have a lot more data. Bike team
> mechanics in my experience weere the best of the best. Not that there
> weren't just as good bike shop mechanics, but shop mechanics aren't
> pressed to finish 16 bikes every night from top to bottom. But in order
> to have something to fix, the rider has to be able to identify it close
> enough that the mechanic at least knows where to start and the new 12 and
> 13 speed setups are getting difficult to idenbtifying problems. My BMC 12
> speed Campy has this very odd problem of shifting high ring to low ring
> perfectly in the largest 4 cogs but anywhere else it will throw the chain
> or not shift rings. Everything appears to be properly aligned and the
> chain if anything is a little too close to the big ring and allows just
> enough room for the chain while in the big ring.

Professional bike mechanics are clearly good but those working for racing
team will have different focus and possibly less choice ie sponsorship from
various brands and equipment setup choices made by others.

Ie in the pursuit of speed they will make compromises.

Which others will not.
>
>
>
Snips
>

Roger Merriman