I remember ca 1971 (I was ten) Readers Digest mentioned fires from answering
machine adaptors. So I have always been wary about leaving an adaptor
plugged in for long. I generally didn't leave my fax or answering machine
plugged in for long and generally abhored leaving computers on for days. (ca
1986 my workplace had a semicomical incident where they ran a simulation all
night and the janitor kept shutting it off). Now I hear radio ads from the
patent office about "fakes" causing fires, and I wonder who is right? Where
do you draw the line? Would you trust Chinese made ryobi battery+charger (40V
Lithium) clones from China? Would you trust a microwave or space heater from
CHina or Vietnam? WHat about a simple light socket (that costs $1.50)? What
rules of thumb do you folks use in evaluating such?

--
Vasos Panagiotopoulos panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---

On Saturday, December 16, 2023 at 7:54:43 PM UTC-5, vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> I remember ca 1971 (I was ten) Readers Digest mentioned fires from answering
> machine adaptors. So I have always been wary about leaving an adaptor
> plugged in for long. I generally didn't leave my fax or answering machine
> plugged in for long and generally abhored leaving computers on for days. (ca
> 1986 my workplace had a semicomical incident where they ran a simulation all
> night and the janitor kept shutting it off). Now I hear radio ads from the
> patent office about "fakes" causing fires, and I wonder who is right? Where
> do you draw the line? Would you trust Chinese made ryobi battery+charger (40V
> Lithium) clones from China? Would you trust a microwave or space heater from
> CHina or Vietnam? WHat about a simple light socket (that costs $1.50)? What
> rules of thumb do you folks use in evaluating such?
>
> --
> Vasos Panagiotopoulos panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
> ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---

Smoke alarms, escape plans, insurance...

On 12/19/23 15:57, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 16, 2023 at 7:54:43 PM UTC-5, vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
>> I remember ca 1971 (I was ten) Readers Digest mentioned fires from answering
>> machine adaptors. So I have always been wary about leaving an adaptor
>> plugged in for long. I generally didn't leave my fax or answering machine
>> plugged in for long and generally abhored leaving computers on for days. (ca
>> 1986 my workplace had a semicomical incident where they ran a simulation all
>> night and the janitor kept shutting it off). Now I hear radio ads from the
>> patent office about "fakes" causing fires, and I wonder who is right? Where
>> do you draw the line? Would you trust Chinese made ryobi battery+charger (40V
>> Lithium) clones from China? Would you trust a microwave or space heater from
>> CHina or Vietnam? WHat about a simple light socket (that costs $1.50)? What
>> rules of thumb do you folks use in evaluating such?
>>
>> --
>> Vasos Panagiotopoulos panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
>> ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
>
>
> Smoke alarms, escape plans, insurance...
>

Seconded. I leave things on all the time, especially adapters. Almost
everyone does. If I bought it from a store with a real reputation, I
assume it to be safe. If I bought it online from a no-name seller or
built it, I assume it to be unsafe until proven otherwise.

It sounds like there was a spate of faulty adapters in *1971*. Avoiding
all adapters is like avoiding all phones because of Galaxy Note 7s had a
manufacturing defect that made them caught fire. Actually, since it was
1971, it's more like avoiding all phones because the ENIAC's vacuum
tubes burned out a lot. Proper commercial products catching fire is very
much the exception, not the rule.

Stores like Amazon sell a lot of stuff that isn't "proper commercial
products". Youtube user "bigclivedotcom" has demonstrated this by taking
some apart. This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqJnFhhPAis -
possibly the most famous because of the accompanying song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioAq7PI1Uwg - has a *quarter of a
millimeter* gap in between mains power and something that connects to
your fingers. That's a bargain-bin cheap one imported from China. It
wouldn't have cost them anything to move those wires apart, but they
didn't care.

I've also seen teardowns of *official* Apple chargers (mains-to-USB
adapters) showing surprisingly high quality, with good quality
components, proper design, and better filtering than necessary. Apple
might be dogshit because of its lock-in philosophy, but at least its
adapters are well built.

You might unplug them to save the last scrap of power, though.

On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 17:12:04 +0100, immibis <news@immibis.com> wrote:

>On 12/19/23 15:57, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 16, 2023 at 7:54:43?PM UTC-5, vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
>>> I remember ca 1971 (I was ten) Readers Digest mentioned fires from answering
>>> machine adaptors. So I have always been wary about leaving an adaptor
>>> plugged in for long. I generally didn't leave my fax or answering machine
>>> plugged in for long and generally abhored leaving computers on for days. (ca
>>> 1986 my workplace had a semicomical incident where they ran a simulation all
>>> night and the janitor kept shutting it off). Now I hear radio ads from the
>>> patent office about "fakes" causing fires, and I wonder who is right? Where
>>> do you draw the line? Would you trust Chinese made ryobi battery+charger (40V
>>> Lithium) clones from China? Would you trust a microwave or space heater from
>>> CHina or Vietnam? WHat about a simple light socket (that costs $1.50)? What
>>> rules of thumb do you folks use in evaluating such?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Vasos Panagiotopoulos panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
>>> ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
>>
>>
>> Smoke alarms, escape plans, insurance...
>>
>
>Seconded. I leave things on all the time, especially adapters. Almost
>everyone does. If I bought it from a store with a real reputation, I
>assume it to be safe. If I bought it online from a no-name seller or
>built it, I assume it to be unsafe until proven otherwise.
>
>It sounds like there was a spate of faulty adapters in *1971*. Avoiding
>all adapters is like avoiding all phones because of Galaxy Note 7s had a
>manufacturing defect that made them caught fire. Actually, since it was
>1971, it's more like avoiding all phones because the ENIAC's vacuum
>tubes burned out a lot. Proper commercial products catching fire is very
>much the exception, not the rule.
>
>Stores like Amazon sell a lot of stuff that isn't "proper commercial
>products". Youtube user "bigclivedotcom" has demonstrated this by taking
>some apart. This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqJnFhhPAis -
>possibly the most famous because of the accompanying song:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioAq7PI1Uwg - has a *quarter of a
>millimeter* gap in between mains power and something that connects to
>your fingers. That's a bargain-bin cheap one imported from China. It
>wouldn't have cost them anything to move those wires apart, but they
>didn't care.
>
>I've also seen teardowns of *official* Apple chargers (mains-to-USB
>adapters) showing surprisingly high quality, with good quality
>components, proper design, and better filtering than necessary. Apple
>might be dogshit because of its lock-in philosophy, but at least its
>adapters are well built.
>
>You might unplug them to save the last scrap of power, though.

+1

KenW

On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 17:12:04 +0100, immibis wrote:
> On 12/19/23 15:57, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 16, 2023 at 7:54:43 PM UTC-5, vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
>>> I remember ca 1971 (I was ten) Readers Digest mentioned fires from answering
>>> machine adaptors. So I have always been wary about leaving an adaptor
>>> plugged in for long. I generally didn't leave my fax or answering machine
>>> plugged in for long and generally abhored leaving computers on for days. (ca
>>> 1986 my workplace had a semicomical incident where they ran a simulation all
>>> night and the janitor kept shutting it off). Now I hear radio ads from the
>>> patent office about "fakes" causing fires, and I wonder who is right? Where
>>> do you draw the line? Would you trust Chinese made ryobi battery+charger (40V
>>> Lithium) clones from China? Would you trust a microwave or space heater from
>>> CHina or Vietnam? WHat about a simple light socket (that costs $1.50)? What
>>> rules of thumb do you folks use in evaluating such?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Vasos Panagiotopoulos panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
>>> ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
>>
>>
>> Smoke alarms, escape plans, insurance...
>>
>
> Seconded. I leave things on all the time, especially adapters. Almost
> everyone does. If I bought it from a store with a real reputation, I
> assume it to be safe. If I bought it online from a no-name seller or
> built it, I assume it to be unsafe until proven otherwise.
>
> It sounds like there was a spate of faulty adapters in *1971*. Avoiding
> all adapters is like avoiding all phones because of Galaxy Note 7s had a
> manufacturing defect that made them caught fire. Actually, since it was
> 1971,

1977 -- Mr. Coffee -- another appliace that's usually left plugged in 24/7.
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/1977/recall-of-mr-coffee-announced

Who you gonna trust?

On 19/12/2023 16:12, immibis wrote:
> On 12/19/23 15:57, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 16, 2023 at 7:54:43 PM UTC-5, vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
>>> I remember ca 1971 (I was ten) Readers Digest mentioned fires from answering
>>> machine adaptors. So I have always been wary about leaving an adaptor
>>> plugged in for long. I generally didn't leave my fax or answering machine
>>> plugged in for long and generally abhored leaving computers on for days. (ca
>>> 1986 my workplace had a semicomical incident where they ran a simulation all
>>> night and the janitor kept shutting it off). Now I hear radio ads from the
>>> patent office about "fakes" causing fires, and I wonder who is right? Where
>>> do you draw the line? Would you trust Chinese made ryobi battery+charger (40V
>>> Lithium) clones from China? Would you trust a microwave or space heater from
>>> CHina or Vietnam? WHat about a simple light socket (that costs $1.50)? What
>>> rules of thumb do you folks use in evaluating such?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Vasos Panagiotopoulos panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
>>> ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
>>
>>
>> Smoke alarms, escape plans, insurance...
>>
>
> Seconded. I leave things on all the time, especially adapters. Almost
> everyone does. If I bought it from a store with a real reputation, I
> assume it to be safe. If I bought it online from a no-name seller or
> built it, I assume it to be unsafe until proven otherwise.
>
> It sounds like there was a spate of faulty adapters in *1971*. Avoiding
> all adapters is like avoiding all phones because of Galaxy Note 7s had a
> manufacturing defect that made them caught fire. Actually, since it was
> 1971, it's more like avoiding all phones because the ENIAC's vacuum
> tubes burned out a lot. Proper commercial products catching fire is very
> much the exception, not the rule.
>
> Stores like Amazon sell a lot of stuff that isn't "proper commercial
> products". Youtube user "bigclivedotcom" has demonstrated this by taking
> some apart. This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqJnFhhPAis -
> possibly the most famous because of the accompanying song:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioAq7PI1Uwg - has a *quarter of a
> millimeter* gap in between mains power and something that connects to
> your fingers. That's a bargain-bin cheap one imported from China. It
> wouldn't have cost them anything to move those wires apart, but they
> didn't care.
>
> I've also seen teardowns of *official* Apple chargers (mains-to-USB
> adapters) showing surprisingly high quality, with good quality
> components, proper design, and better filtering than necessary. Apple
> might be dogshit because of its lock-in philosophy, but at least its
> adapters are well built.
>
> You might unplug them to save the last scrap of power, though.

I've just got notice of a recall for the SMPS wall wart charger for a
hand-held vacuum cleaner we bought over a year ago: "(we) are aware of a
manufacturing defect with a small number of the DC Adaptors supplied
with the vacuums. The defect may cause the back of the DC adapter to
come off...If you have bought one of these products, stop using it
immediately."

It's been plugged in for all that time. It's never been removed from the
socket at the back of the cupboard the vacuum cleaner is kept in, so why
would I want to unplug it? Unless, of course, there's another "shoddy
workmanship" hazard inside that adaptor...

--

Jeff

On 17/12/2023 11:54 am, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> I remember ca 1971 (I was ten) Readers Digest mentioned fires from answering
> machine adaptors. So I have always been wary about leaving an adaptor
> plugged in for long. I generally didn't leave my fax or answering machine
> plugged in for long and generally abhored leaving computers on for days. (ca
> 1986 my workplace had a semicomical incident where they ran a simulation all
> night and the janitor kept shutting it off). Now I hear radio ads from the
> patent office about "fakes" causing fires, and I wonder who is right? Where
> do you draw the line? Would you trust Chinese made ryobi battery+charger (40V
> Lithium) clones from China? Would you trust a microwave or space heater from
> CHina or Vietnam? WHat about a simple light socket (that costs $1.50)? What
> rules of thumb do you folks use in evaluating such?
>
If it us UL listed, is it probably ok - they are quite strict. Some
other approvals agencies are fairly diligent too. In addition, I would
not leave lithium batteries fast-charging unattended, and would avoid
allowing piles of paper or curtains to drape around any mains-powered
device that is unattended.