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tech / rec.photo.digital / Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor

SubjectAuthor
* Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensorNewsKrawler
+* Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensorChris Green
|`* Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensorHergen Lehmann
| `- Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensorPiet
+- Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensorDavid Taylor
`- Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensorRichA

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Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor

<sgq31m$2ibtj$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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From: newskr...@krawl.org (NewsKrawler)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,rec.photo.digital
Subject: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 08:46:47 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: NewsKrawler - Thu, 2 Sep 2021 08:46 UTC

Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor
https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/2/22653558/samsung-isocell-hp1-gn5-200-megapixel-camera-sensor-announced

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-brings-advanced-ultra-fine-pixel-technologies-to-new-mobile-image-sensors

Samsung has announced a 200-megapixel image sensor intended for smartphone
cameras, by some distance the highest resolution phone camera sensor ever
made. The ISOCELL HP1 has 0.64�m pixels and can bin 16 of them at once for
the equivalent of a 12.5-megapixel sensor with 2.56�m pixels.

Samsung calls the HP1's pixel-binning technology "ChameleonCell." The
four-by-four 12.5-megapixel setting is intended for low-light usage, but it
can also capture full 200-megapixel resolution photos, or use a two-by-two
binning technique for 50-megapixel images.

The two-by-two binning mode also lets the HP1 capture 8K video. Samsung says
it's capable of shooting 8K without cropping, although standard 8K (7,680 x
4,320) is less than 50 megapixels.

Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor

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From: cl...@isbd.net (Chris Green)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 10:10:18 +0100
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 by: Chris Green - Thu, 2 Sep 2021 09:10 UTC

NewsKrawler <newskrawl@krawl.org> wrote:
> Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor
> https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/2/22653558/samsung-isocell-hp1-gn5-200-megapixel-camera-sensor-announced
>
>
> https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-brings-advanced-ultra-fine-pixel-technologies-to-new-mobile-image-sensors
>
>
> Samsung has announced a 200-megapixel image sensor intended for smartphone
> cameras, by some distance the highest resolution phone camera sensor ever
> made. The ISOCELL HP1 has 0.64ìm pixels and can bin 16 of them at once for
> the equivalent of a 12.5-megapixel sensor with 2.56ìm pixels.
>
[snip more details]

I do wonder if these huge numbers of pixels are just 'number chasing',
"I've got more pixels than you, so must be better".

Does a sensor like this actually compete in quality with the much
lower pixel counts available on professional digital cameras?

My little Panasonic TZ60 is only 18.1 megapixels but takes far better
pictures than any phone camera I have used. 18 megapixels is quite
enough for huge images!

--
Chris Green
·

Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor

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From: david-ta...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid (David Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 11:26:02 +0100
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 by: David Taylor - Thu, 2 Sep 2021 10:26 UTC

On 02/09/2021 09:46, NewsKrawler wrote:
> Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor
> https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/2/22653558/samsung-isocell-hp1-gn5-200-megapixel-camera-sensor-announced
>
> https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-brings-advanced-ultra-fine-pixel-technologies-to-new-mobile-image-sensors
>
> Samsung has announced a 200-megapixel image sensor intended for smartphone
> cameras, by some distance the highest resolution phone camera sensor ever
> made. The ISOCELL HP1 has 0.64骻 pixels and can bin 16 of them at once for
> the equivalent of a 12.5-megapixel sensor with 2.56骻 pixels.
>
> Samsung calls the HP1's pixel-binning technology "ChameleonCell." The
> four-by-four 12.5-megapixel setting is intended for low-light usage, but it
> can also capture full 200-megapixel resolution photos, or use a two-by-two
> binning technique for 50-megapixel images.
>
> The two-by-two binning mode also lets the HP1 capture 8K video. Samsung says
> it's capable of shooting 8K without cropping, although standard 8K (7,680 x
> 4,320) is less than 50 megapixels.

I wonder what the diffraction limit is with their lenses?

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor

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From: hlehmann...@snafu.de (Hergen Lehmann)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 17:32:13 +0200
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 by: Hergen Lehmann - Thu, 2 Sep 2021 15:32 UTC

Am 02.09.21 um 11:10 schrieb Chris Green:

> I do wonder if these huge numbers of pixels are just 'number chasing',
> "I've got more pixels than you, so must be better".

There are physical limits imposed by the optical system. If a ray of
light is being refracted by the lens, the result on the sensor is not a
single spot, but a circle of a certain size.

There are physical limits caused by the wavelength of the light in
relation the the pixel size. If they get too close, you'll get interference.

There are physical limits due to the noise produced by the sensor.
Smaller pixels => more noise => more noise suppression needed in
software => blurry picture.

In modern smartphones, most of the subjective picture quality is
actually the result of sophisticated image processing algorithms, and
not originating from the sensor.

So yes, these huge numbers are mostly number chasing.

There is only one actual use case for these extreme-resolution sensors:
They provide the user with a reasonable zoom range without the need for
an actual zoom lens, by using only part of the sensor area.

> Does a sensor like this actually compete in quality with the much
> lower pixel counts available on professional digital cameras?

Professionals do have their reasons for still buying these expensive
cameras. They put the photographer (not an algorithm) in charge of the
result. They provide artistic freedom. They provide much better
low-light performance. They provide better adaption to the situation due
to interchangeable lenses and other accessories.

> My little Panasonic TZ60 is only 18.1 megapixels but takes far better
> pictures than any phone camera I have used. 18 megapixels is quite
> enough for huge images!

It's more than enough for any picture supposed to be displayed on a
screen or printed for regular use (up to poster size).

Heck, most smartphone pictures are only ever used for sharing them over
WhatsApp, Instagram&Co, which completely CRUSH the image quality due to
compression. Megapixel chasing on phones is completely pointless.

Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor

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From: www.godf...@opt-in.invalid (Piet)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2021 14:50:43 +0200
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 by: Piet - Sat, 4 Sep 2021 12:50 UTC

Hergen Lehmann wrote:
> Heck, most smartphone pictures are only ever used for sharing them over
> WhatsApp, Instagram&Co, which completely CRUSH the image quality due to
> compression. Megapixel chasing on phones is completely pointless.

Besides, all the megapix chasing concentrates on the back camera,
whereas most people are so fond of themselves that they *must* be
in the picture ("Look, I've been to ... / I've seen ...") and thus
only or predominantly use the front camera.

-p

Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor

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Subject: Re: Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor
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 by: RichA - Mon, 6 Sep 2021 09:40 UTC

On Thursday, 2 September 2021 at 04:46:58 UTC-4, NewsKrawler wrote:
> Samsung announces 200-megapixel phone camera sensor
> https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/2/22653558/samsung-isocell-hp1-gn5-200-megapixel-camera-sensor-announced
>
> https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-brings-advanced-ultra-fine-pixel-technologies-to-new-mobile-image-sensors
>
> Samsung has announced a 200-megapixel image sensor intended for smartphone
> cameras, by some distance the highest resolution phone camera sensor ever
> made. The ISOCELL HP1 has 0.64ěm pixels and can bin 16 of them at once for
> the equivalent of a 12.5-megapixel sensor with 2.56ěm pixels.
>
> Samsung calls the HP1's pixel-binning technology "ChameleonCell." The
> four-by-four 12.5-megapixel setting is intended for low-light usage, but it
> can also capture full 200-megapixel resolution photos, or use a two-by-two
> binning technique for 50-megapixel images.
>
> The two-by-two binning mode also lets the HP1 capture 8K video. Samsung says
> it's capable of shooting 8K without cropping, although standard 8K (7,680 x
> 4,320) is less than 50 megapixels.

What exactly will they end up with with long focal ratio lenses in a zoom system? How will they avoid horrific diffraction issues with sensors as small as they are?

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