"The head of the European Space Agency (ESA) has warned economic damage from heatwaves and drought could dwarf Europe's energy crisis as he called for urgent action to tackle climate change."

https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/climate-risks-dwarf-europes-energy-crisis-space-chief-warns-2022-08-11/

On 8/12/2022 7:25 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> "[...] he called for urgent action to tackle climate change."
>[...]
His urgent action needed is to develop a 2nd generation of satellite
monitors. Akin to appointing a committee to look into it.

At any rate, it's too late: we're past the tipping point and it's out of
our hands.

On Fri, 12 Aug 2022 09:58:51 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
<BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:

>On 8/12/2022 7:25 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> "[...] he called for urgent action to tackle climate change."
>>[...]
>His urgent action needed is to develop a 2nd generation of satellite
>monitors. Akin to appointing a committee to look into it.
>
>At any rate, it's too late: we're past the tipping point and it's out of
>our hands.

Excellent. We can stop worrying and whining and enjoy the rest of our
short lives.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc trk

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:58:58 AM UTC-4, bobenge...@gmail.com wrote:
> On 8/12/2022 7:25 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > "[...] he called for urgent action to tackle climate change."
> >[...]
> His urgent action needed is to develop a 2nd generation of satellite
> monitors. Akin to appointing a committee to look into it.
>
> At any rate, it's too late: we're past the tipping point and it's out of
> our hands.

They still have the geoengineering option-.It's more than just the survival of mankind, it's the entire biosphere that must be saved because mankind can't live without it.
This write-up is pretty good:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_engineering
American Meteorological Society:
https://www.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/ams/about-ams/ams-statements/archive-statements-of-the-ams/geoengineering-the-climate-system/
and this:
https://geoengineering.global/#:~:text=What%20is%20Geoengineering%3F,on%20our%20civilization%20and%20biosphere.

On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 7:12:41 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 11:58:58 PM UTC+10, bobenge...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On 8/12/2022 7:25 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > "[...] he called for urgent action to tackle climate change."

> > At any rate, it's too late: we're past the tipping point and it's out of
> > our hands.

> Which tipping point would that be? The one where the extra costs imposed spending on climate change denial propaganda makes buying fossil fuels impossibly expensive?

No, the point where water and food (which are NEEDS) become excessively expensive unless
we all diminish fossil fuel pollution (which is a want, not a need).

On 8/13/22 03:49, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

>
> When the Arctic sea ice finally goes away and the Arctic Ocean stays
> ice-free all the year round the albedo of that region will go up
> quite a bit - that kind of thing. It's talking about an irreversible
> result.

If the Russian navy will paint all of their decks white, that could help.

On Sat, 13 Aug 2022 08:25:29 -0700, corvid <bl@ckb.ird> wrote:

>On 8/13/22 03:49, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>
>>
>> When the Arctic sea ice finally goes away and the Arctic Ocean stays
>> ice-free all the year round the albedo of that region will go up
>> quite a bit - that kind of thing. It's talking about an irreversible
>> result.
>
>If the Russian navy will paint all of their decks white, that could help.

The Black Sea is actually white, because we never emerged from the
last irreversible ice age.

On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 8:25:38 AM UTC-7, corvid wrote:
> On 8/13/22 03:49, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>
> >
> > When the Arctic sea ice finally goes away and the Arctic Ocean stays
> > ice-free all the year round the albedo of that region will go up
> > quite a bit - that kind of thing. It's talking about an irreversible
> > result.
> If the Russian navy will paint all of their decks white, that could help.

Help what? Target acquisition?

On Fri, 12 Aug 2022 10:43:30 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:58:58 AM UTC-4, bobenge...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On 8/12/2022 7:25 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> > "[...] he called for urgent action to tackle climate change."
>> >[...]
>> His urgent action needed is to develop a 2nd generation of satellite
>> monitors. Akin to appointing a committee to look into it.
>>
>> At any rate, it's too late: we're past the tipping point and it's out of
>> our hands.
>
>They still have the geoengineering option-.It's more than just the survival of mankind, it's the entire biosphere that must be saved because mankind can't live without it.

Have you been outside lately? It's green and beautiful.

On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 4:58:18 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Aug 2022 10:43:30 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >They still have the geoengineering option-.It's more than just the survival of mankind, it's the entire biosphere that must be saved because mankind can't live without it.

> Have you been outside lately? It's green and beautiful.

'the entire biosphere' isn't represented by a wind-from-the-ocean coastal site.
Po river valley, and the Rhine, aren't looking 'green and beautiful'
just now.

Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> Actually the usual meaning of "tipping point" in this context is where global
> warming has gone far enough to generate enough environmental change that
> global warming would keep on getting worse even if we managed to reduce
> atmospheric CO2 levels below 270 ppm.
>
> When the Arctic sea ice finally goes away and the Arctic Ocean stays ice-free
> all the year round the albedo of that region will go up quite a bit - that
> kind of thing. It's talking about an irreversible result.

"Irreversible" in this context means: within the time frame of the existence of
the human species, or human civilization as we know it. Which is maybe
thousands of years (species) or decades (civilization). Earth has been swinging
back and forth between more extreme conditions, but each time with what amounts
to a complete overhaul of the biosphere. Pockets of humans may survive such
swings in some parts of the world, but not under conditions that I want to.

On a sunny day (14 Aug 2022 09:50:34 GMT) it happened Robert Latest
<boblatest@yahoo.com> wrote in <jlrur9Fgg1pU1@mid.individual.net>:

>Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>> Actually the usual meaning of "tipping point" in this context is where global
>> warming has gone far enough to generate enough environmental change that
>> global warming would keep on getting worse even if we managed to reduce
>> atmospheric CO2 levels below 270 ppm.
>>
>> When the Arctic sea ice finally goes away and the Arctic Ocean stays ice-free
>> all the year round the albedo of that region will go up quite a bit - that
>> kind of thing. It's talking about an irreversible result.
>
>"Irreversible" in this context means: within the time frame of the existence of
>the human species, or human civilization as we know it. Which is maybe
>thousands of years (species) or decades (civilization). Earth has been swinging
>back and forth between more extreme conditions, but each time with what amounts
>to a complete overhaul of the biosphere. Pockets of humans may survive such
>swings in some parts of the world, but not under conditions that I want to.

We have technology these day to help us survive.
That is if the green idiots did not kill all power generating methods by then.
<nuclear, coal, oil, what have you>
Else a big setback for humans..

Billy The CO2 Kid screamed:

>The "green idiots" seem perfectly happy with solar cells and windmills, which
>do happen to provide electric power more cheaply than any of the sources
>you list. You need to throw in quite a bit of grid storage to cope with the
>fact that the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow all the time, but
>that's just even more additional investment that cheapskate groups don't
>want to pay for.

We have currently no way to store that much energy,
the climate and weather will create periods without sun (volcanic eruptions)
and windmills will fly apart in decent storms
It is all about redundancy
The electric grid will break down again and again as it always does,
the solar panels will be blown of the roofs and land as happened many times.
Decent hail storms will put holes in those too.
No electricity and all transport electric means no emergency services in those situations
Greens have no clue, they have been brainwashed, a whole generation, by Al Gore and his polar bear club.
and now destroy everything.
Logic reasoning they are not capable of.. isolating homes here in the Netherlands
and taking those of the gas, claiming it is needed because of CO2 and glowballworming like you do,
but forgetting at the same time to put in aircos!!!!!
How incredible stupid can you get >>> warming >>> needs >>> cooling

>Screwing up the climate by dumping a lot of CO2 in the atmosphere is shaping
>up as a pretty big setback for humanity.

CO2 has nothing much to do with it,
you are clearly not willing to look up CO2 versus warm and cold periods in the past
Neither has reading up on earth orbit related cycles did anything to your misunderstandings
http://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm

>There are a bunchy of sub-human idiots
>who don't seem to be up to getting the message, and want to make the
>set-back even worse.

Well, you flying down under in that CO2 emitting jet is that what you meant???

On Sat, 13 Aug 2022 23:14:56 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 4:58:18 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Aug 2022 10:43:30 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >They still have the geoengineering option-.It's more than just the survival of mankind, it's the entire biosphere that must be saved because mankind can't live without it.
>
>> Have you been outside lately? It's green and beautiful.
>
>'the entire biosphere' isn't represented by a wind-from-the-ocean coastal site.
>Po river valley, and the Rhine, aren't looking 'green and beautiful'
>just now.

Weather happens "just now".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thomas_Wyke-_Thames_frost_fair.JPG

And not very long ago Michigan was under a mile of ice.

But irrational fear, and profiteering from same, gets even deeper.

Be as afraid as you enjoy. Stay under your bed and leave more hiking
trails for us.

On 14 Aug 2022 09:50:34 GMT, Robert Latest <boblatest@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>> Actually the usual meaning of "tipping point" in this context is where global
>> warming has gone far enough to generate enough environmental change that
>> global warming would keep on getting worse even if we managed to reduce
>> atmospheric CO2 levels below 270 ppm.
>>
>> When the Arctic sea ice finally goes away and the Arctic Ocean stays ice-free
>> all the year round the albedo of that region will go up quite a bit - that
>> kind of thing. It's talking about an irreversible result.
>
>"Irreversible" in this context means: within the time frame of the existence of
>the human species, or human civilization as we know it. Which is maybe
>thousands of years (species) or decades (civilization). Earth has been swinging
>back and forth between more extreme conditions, but each time with what amounts
>to a complete overhaul of the biosphere. Pockets of humans may survive such
>swings in some parts of the world, but not under conditions that I want to.

How did earth ever emerge from irreversible ice-age albedo feedback?

Emotional guessing about control theory doesn't work. Positive
feedback doesn't necessarily latch, but most people think it does.

On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 6:45:50 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Aug 2022 23:14:56 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 4:58:18 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

> >> Have you been outside lately? It's green and beautiful.

> >'the entire biosphere' isn't represented by a wind-from-the-ocean coastal site.
> >Po river valley, and the Rhine, aren't looking 'green and beautiful'
> >just now.

> Weather happens "just now".
Well, yeah; that's why weather is reported on site-by-site basis, with dates and times.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thomas_Wyke-_Thames_frost_fair.JPG
>
> And not very long ago Michigan was under a mile of ice.

In human terms, it WAS very long ago. What's your point?

> But irrational fear, and profiteering from same, gets even deeper.

Non sequitur. There's no irrationality or profiteering in your rants, nor in mine.

On 08/14/2022 03:50 AM, Robert Latest wrote:
> Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>> Actually the usual meaning of "tipping point" in this context is where global
>> warming has gone far enough to generate enough environmental change that
>> global warming would keep on getting worse even if we managed to reduce
>> atmospheric CO2 levels below 270 ppm.
>>
>> When the Arctic sea ice finally goes away and the Arctic Ocean stays ice-free
>> all the year round the albedo of that region will go up quite a bit - that
>> kind of thing. It's talking about an irreversible result.
>
> "Irreversible" in this context means: within the time frame of the existence of
> the human species, or human civilization as we know it. Which is maybe
> thousands of years (species) or decades (civilization). Earth has been swinging
> back and forth between more extreme conditions, but each time with what amounts
> to a complete overhaul of the biosphere. Pockets of humans may survive such
> swings in some parts of the world, but not under conditions that I want to.
>

If the genetic Just So Stories can be believed, my ancestors chased the
glaciers north after the last ice age and made a living hunting and
gathering. They obviously survived although it might have been touch and
go when the damn farmers arrived.

On 08/14/2022 07:45 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Aug 2022 23:14:56 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 4:58:18 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, 12 Aug 2022 10:43:30 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> They still have the geoengineering option-.It's more than just the survival of mankind, it's the entire biosphere that must be saved because mankind can't live without it.
>>
>>> Have you been outside lately? It's green and beautiful.
>>
>> 'the entire biosphere' isn't represented by a wind-from-the-ocean coastal site.
>> Po river valley, and the Rhine, aren't looking 'green and beautiful'
>> just now.
>
> Weather happens "just now".
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thomas_Wyke-_Thames_frost_fair.JPG
>
> And not very long ago Michigan was under a mile of ice.

https://www.glaciallakemissoula.org/

I have a photo I took from one of the mountains one Thanksgiving. The
valley suffers from temperature inversions and while it was bright and
sunny at 5800', the valley was covered with an unbroken mass of white
clouds a couple of hundred feet down the trail. Looking out over the
clouds with only the mountains showing it was close to a sunny day at
Lake Missoula 12,000 years ago.

Several of the trails have makers at 4200', 1200' above the valley floor.

Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (14 Aug 2022 09:50:34 GMT) it happened Robert Latest
><boblatest@yahoo.com> wrote in <jlrur9Fgg1pU1@mid.individual.net>:
>
>>Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>>> When the Arctic sea ice finally goes away and the Arctic Ocean stays
>>> ice-free all the year round the albedo of that region will go up quite a
>>> bit - that kind of thing. It's talking about an irreversible result.
>>
>>"Irreversible" in this context means: within the time frame of the existence
>>of the human species, or human civilization as we know it. Which is maybe
>>thousands of years (species) or decades (civilization). Earth has been
>>swinging back and forth between more extreme conditions, but each time with
>>what amounts to a complete overhaul of the biosphere. Pockets of humans may
>>survive such swings in some parts of the world, but not under conditions that
>>I want to.
>
> We have technology these day to help us survive.

Those will be the "pockets" of survival that I meant. No technology will be
able to sustain several billions of humans under conditions that might be
classified as "human." This is not about long-term biological survival of a
species, I'm not too worried about that. I'm worried about the civilization(s)
that makes all the difference for this particlular species, and which
incidentally is the foundation of the very technology that you think will help
us survive.

> That is if the green idiots did not kill all power generating methods by then.
><nuclear, coal, oil, what have you>

All limited resources, even if you ignore environmental impact. Long-term
energy generation can only use sunlight. What is your proposal?

> Else a big setback for humans..

Jan Panteltje wrote:
> We have currently no way to store that much energy,

We don't need to. We need more flexible strategies for energy *consumption*.
Everything nowadays is still based on the "base load + peak load" paradigm.

> the climate and weather will create periods without sun (volcanic eruptions)

Not everywhere at the same time.

> and windmills will fly apart in decent storms

They don't today, why should they in the future?

> It is all about redundancy

Correct.

> The electric grid will break down again and again as it always does,

If constructed cheaply wnd without regulatory oversight like in Texas, yes.

> the solar panels will be blown of the roofs and land as happened many times.

If constructed cheaply wnd without regulatory oversight like in Texas, yes.

> How incredible stupid can you get >>> warming >>> needs >>> cooling

Powered >>> by >>> energy >>> that >>> generates >>> more >>> warming,
according to your ideas. Tell you what: Cooling is only needed when the sun
shines. No electric energy storage necessary. Why not just slap solar cells
onto those sprawling cardboard shacks that Arizonians call "single family
homes" and keep them cooled to 60°F all day. It could be so easy. You don't
even need a thermostat.

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>"Irreversible" in this context means: within the time frame of the existence
>>of the human species, or human civilization as we know it. Which is maybe
>>thousands of years (species) or decades (civilization). Earth has been
>>swinging back and forth between more extreme conditions, but each time with
>>what amounts to a complete overhaul of the biosphere. Pockets of humans may
>>survive such swings in some parts of the world, but not under conditions that
>>I want to.
>
> How did earth ever emerge from irreversible ice-age albedo feedback?

I don't know how it happened, except that it happened on a time scale that was
too slow for most complex species to wait out.

> Emotional guessing about control theory doesn't work.

As somebody who claims to know about control theory you are familiar with time
constants associated with feedback loops, and if the time constant is orders of
magnitude too large for the task at hand the controller is worthless. The fact
that your mains supply is controlled to deliver 60*3600*24 cycles per day
doesn't make it suitable for a high-accuracy reference clock on a time scale of
less than a day.

> Positive feedback doesn't necessarily latch, but most people think it does.

If positive feedback goes on for long enough you can consider it latched for
all practical purposes. If we knew for a fact that without any CO2 limit the
average temperatures would peak at +6°C in 200 years and be back at today's
level in another 200 it should not make a difference for today's decision
making at all.

On a sunny day (15 Aug 2022 09:19:43 GMT) it happened Robert Latest
<boblatest@yahoo.com> wrote in <jluhdfFsck0U1@mid.individual.net>:

>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (14 Aug 2022 09:50:34 GMT) it happened Robert Latest
>><boblatest@yahoo.com> wrote in <jlrur9Fgg1pU1@mid.individual.net>:
>>
>>>Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>>>> When the Arctic sea ice finally goes away and the Arctic Ocean stays
>>>> ice-free all the year round the albedo of that region will go up quite a
>>>> bit - that kind of thing. It's talking about an irreversible result.
>>>
>>>"Irreversible" in this context means: within the time frame of the existence
>>>of the human species, or human civilization as we know it. Which is maybe
>>>thousands of years (species) or decades (civilization). Earth has been
>>>swinging back and forth between more extreme conditions, but each time with
>>>what amounts to a complete overhaul of the biosphere. Pockets of humans may
>>>survive such swings in some parts of the world, but not under conditions that
>>>I want to.
>>
>> We have technology these day to help us survive.
>
>Those will be the "pockets" of survival that I meant. No technology will be
>able to sustain several billions of humans under conditions that might be
>classified as "human."

Much the situation already, say Africa
while we eat our stomach full, many there have no food,

>This is not about long-term biological survival of a
>species, I'm not too worried about that. I'm worried about the civilization(s)

Sure, US will go the same way as the Aztecs etc
Statute Of Glibbery will be dug up by the archaeologists like we now look at those pyramids in Mexico
Eskimos will have nice orange fruit gardens where now is the arctic...

>that makes all the difference for this particlular species, and which
>incidentally is the foundation of the very technology that you think will help
>us survive.
>
>> That is if the green idiots did not kill all power generating methods by then.
>><nuclear, coal, oil, what have you>
>
>All limited resources, even if you ignore environmental impact. Long-term
>energy generation can only use sunlight. What is your proposal?

Well fusion energy is only - and was only 30 years into the future ;-)

Maybe underground buildings and nuclear power .. few hundred years ago nobody
could imagine todays technology..

We WILL have to look for other planets / moons of our planets, other solar systems
but us, being [just] a chemical reaction, life omnipresent in what we call universe
makes us not so important, [we] just a transient ..

Maybe Musk will sell SpaceX shares next to pay for Twitter and then with the way NASA
proceeds few ice-ages may pass before US jumps to space.

Good chance China will have nice Chinese restaurants on Mars by the time the first US astronuts make it there.

What 'system' is better? Or will it be everybody for themselves?
Mass migration will happen, already happens..
Maybe the countries and systems will unite if it get really critical
Kissinger on
https://www.rt.com/news/560780-henry-kissinger-ukraine-taiwan/

I think we can do it, how many generations it will take?

On a sunny day (15 Aug 2022 09:29:36 GMT) it happened Robert Latest
<boblatest@yahoo.com> wrote in <jlui00Fsck0U2@mid.individual.net>:

>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> We have currently no way to store that much energy,
>
>We don't need to. We need more flexible strategies for energy *consumption*.
>Everything nowadays is still based on the "base load + peak load" paradigm.
>
>> the climate and weather will create periods without sun (volcanic eruptions)
>
>Not everywhere at the same time.
>
>> and windmills will fly apart in decent storms
>
>They don't today, why should they in the future?

Well I remember seeing one of the blades on the ground after a storm when I drove by one here.

>> It is all about redundancy
>
>Correct.
>
>> The electric grid will break down again and again as it always does,
>
>If constructed cheaply wnd without regulatory oversight like in Texas, yes.
>
>> the solar panels will be blown of the roofs and land as happened many times.
>
>If constructed cheaply wnd without regulatory oversight like in Texas, yes.
>
>> How incredible stupid can you get >>> warming >>> needs >>> cooling
>
>Powered >>> by >>> energy >>> that >>> generates >>> more >>> warming,
>according to your ideas. Tell you what: Cooling is only needed when the sun
>shines. No electric energy storage necessary. Why not just slap solar cells
>onto those sprawling cardboard shacks that Arizonians call "single family
>homes" and keep them cooled to 60°F all day. It could be so easy. You don't
>even need a thermostat.

In theory yes,
You need a _lot_ of those cells, I just bought and tried a set of 350 W flex solar panels in my garden
have 250 Ah lifepo4 storage and a pure sine wave to 230 V 50 Hz converter, works perfectly!
Worked OK during the last power outage that lasted a few hours.

But cloudy skies .. not so much.. you need a LOT for washing machine, microwave, cooking plate, TV, radio,
charge phones, internet, monitors, lights, heating / cooling / tools .
Nuclear is the only thing that can be made big enough and steady / reliable enough to supply all that for all people.

Not even counting electric cars!!

I would like a small RTG, would work.
But then some clown would drill a hole in his.. radioactive contaminate his place.
Of course after WW3 everything glows anyways ...
But this fear for nuclear power is something put there by all that US war propaganda I'd think ;-)[1]
[1] yes I know.. ;-)

rbowman wrote:
>> Pockets of humans may survive such
>> swings in some parts of the world, but not under conditions that I want to.
>>
>
> If the genetic Just So Stories can be believed, my ancestors chased the
> glaciers north after the last ice age and made a living hunting and
> gathering. They obviously survived although it might have been touch and
> go when the damn farmers arrived.

That's exactly what I meant. I don't give a rat's ass about long-term
biological survival of humans. They can go extinct for all I care. What I do
care about is the conditions under which I, my kids, and my (potential)
grandkids have to live. Some time between now and the Sun surning into a red
giant, humans will go extinct (first culturally, then biologically), and it
won't be pretty. I want that point in time to be as far removed from today as
possible.

Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>
> That's nonsense. You just have to move your population further away from the
> equator.

"Just move" -- yeah right. Thousands od people from South America and Africa
are trying to "just move" further away from the equator right now, to North
America and Europe, for instance. Works really well.
>
>> This is not about long-term biological survival of a species, I'm not too
>> worried about that. I'm worried about the civilization(s) that makes all
>> the difference for this particlular species, and which incidentally is the
>> foundation of the very technology that you think will help us survive.
>V
> So a high technology energy intensive civilisation, which could run fine on
> solar cells, wind turbines and grid storage to cover the gaps when the sun
> isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing. It wouldn't run quite the same as
> the current arrangements, but it could be close enough

Of course. The technology is there. Some forms of energy consumption will
become permanently unfeasible. Problem is, today's political and financial
power has developed in the past decades and is therefore doing its damndest to
prevent any changes to the status quo (which is true for any system, anywhere).

>> > That is if the green idiots did not kill all power generating methods by
>> > then.
>> ><nuclear, coal, oil, what have you>
>>
>> All limited resources, even if you ignore environmental impact. Long-term
>> energy generation can only use sunlight. What is your proposal?
>
> He hasn't got one. He's just recycling climate change denial propaganda
> pushed out by the fossil fuel extraction industry. It doesn't make a lot of
> sense, but it doesn't have to to appeal to Jan Panteltje and John Larkin.
>
>> > Else a big setback for humans..
>
> As if Jan could speak for actual rational humans.
>