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interests / sci.anthropology.paleo / Re: origin of articulate language

SubjectAuthor
* origin of articulate languagelittor...@gmail.com
`* Re: origin of articulate languageDD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
 +* Re: origin of articulate languagePrimum Sapienti
 |`- Re: origin of articulate languagePrimum Sapienti
 `- Re: origin of articulate languagelittor...@gmail.com

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origin of articulate language

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Subject: origin of articulate language
From: littoral...@gmail.com (littor...@gmail.com)
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 by: littor...@gmail.com - Thu, 8 Jul 2021 18:28 UTC

The origin of articulate language revisited:
the potential of a semi-aquatic past of human ancestors to explain the origin of human musicality and articulate language
Mario Vaneechoutte 2014 Hum.Evol.29:1-33

Articulate language depends on very different abilities, e.g.
- vocal dexterity,
- vocal mimicking,
- the acquirement by children of the very different & arbitrary phonology & grammatical structure of any language.

A vast array of experiments confirm that children acquire grammar by
- the use of prosodic clues (basically intonation & pitch),
- facial expression & gesture.

Prosodic clues, provided by speech, are exaggerated in infant-directed speech (motherese).
Strong overlap between musical & linguistic syntactic abilities in the temporal lobes of the brain has been established.
A musical origin of language at the evolutionary level (for H.sapiens) & at the ontogenic level (for each newborn) is parsimonious, and no longer refutable.

Why was song (vocal dexterity & vocal learning) present in our species?
why is it largely absent from other ‘terrestrial’ animals (incl. other primates),
but present in disjoint groups: Cetacea, seals, bats, 3 orders of birds?

We argue:
this enigma (+ a long list of other specifically human characteristics) is best understood by assuming that our recent ancestors (from 3 Ma onwards) adopted a shallow-water diving lifestyle.
The swimming & diving adaptations of the upper airway (& vocal) tract lead to
- increased vocal dexterity & song,
- increased fine-tuning of motoric & mimicking abilities.
These are shared by creatures that can
- freely move in 3 dimensions (swimming, flying) &
- respond instantaneously to behavioural changes of other animals.

Increased bodily mimicking + increased vocal dexterity (both a consequence of a semi-aquatic lifestyle) lead to integrated song & dance, which predisposed to
- producing & mimicking speech & gesture,
- the ability to use prosodic clues to learn the grammar of whichever language.

Re: origin of articulate language

<6e66371b-30d2-4d0d-bb72-a91c4e9b3f4fn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: origin of articulate language
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves)
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 by: DD'eDeN aka not - Sat, 10 Jul 2021 04:43 UTC

On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 2:28:11 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> The origin of articulate language revisited:
> the potential of a semi-aquatic past of human ancestors to explain the origin of human musicality and articulate language
> Mario Vaneechoutte 2014 Hum.Evol.29:1-33
>
> Articulate language depends on very different abilities, e.g.
> - vocal dexterity,
> - vocal mimicking,
> - the acquirement by children of the very different & arbitrary phonology & grammatical structure of any language.
>
> A vast array of experiments confirm that children acquire grammar by
> - the use of prosodic clues (basically intonation & pitch),
> - facial expression & gesture.
>
> Prosodic clues, provided by speech, are exaggerated in infant-directed speech (motherese).
> Strong overlap between musical & linguistic syntactic abilities in the temporal lobes of the brain has been established.
> A musical origin of language at the evolutionary level (for H.sapiens) & at the ontogenic level (for each newborn) is parsimonious, and no longer refutable.
>
> Why was song (vocal dexterity & vocal learning) present in our species?
> why is it largely absent from other ‘terrestrial’ animals (incl. other primates),
> but present in disjoint groups: Cetacea, seals, bats, 3 orders of birds?
>
> We argue:
> this enigma (+ a long list of other specifically human characteristics) is best understood by assuming that our recent ancestors (from 3 Ma onwards) adopted a shallow-water diving lifestyle.
> The swimming & diving adaptations of the upper airway (& vocal) tract lead to
> - increased vocal dexterity & song,
> - increased fine-tuning of motoric & mimicking abilities.
> These are shared by creatures that can
> - freely move in 3 dimensions (swimming, flying) &
> - respond instantaneously to behavioural changes of other animals.
>
> Increased bodily mimicking + increased vocal dexterity (both a consequence of a semi-aquatic lifestyle) lead to integrated song & dance, which predisposed to
> - producing & mimicking speech & gesture,
> - the ability to use prosodic clues to learn the grammar of whichever language

-
Sweets & vocal learning correlation

Meanwhile, Sushma Reddy, an ornithologist at the University of Minnesota, points out that hummingbirds, songbirds, and parrots, three groups of birds with lots of nectar-eating species, “are also the same lineages that have convergently evolved vocal learning”—the ability to make new songs and sounds after listening to other individuals. Could these traits be related? Perhaps there’s a hidden connection between the sugary riches of Australia’s forests and the beautiful tunes that fill the air of every continent—between sweetness of palate and sweetness of voice.

Ed Yong is a staff writer at The Atlantic, where he covers science.
Twitter

Re: origin of articulate language

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From: inval...@invalid.invalid (Primum Sapienti)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology.paleo
Subject: Re: origin of articulate language
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2021 22:46:58 -0600
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 by: Primum Sapienti - Sun, 11 Jul 2021 04:46 UTC

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 2:28:11 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> -
> Sweets & vocal learning correlation
>
> Meanwhile, Sushma Reddy, an ornithologist at the University of Minnesota, points out that hummingbirds, songbirds, and parrots, three groups of birds with lots of nectar-eating species, “are also the same lineages that have convergently evolved vocal learning”—the ability to make new songs and sounds after listening to other individuals. Could these traits be related? Perhaps there’s a hidden connection between the sugary riches of Australia’s forests and the beautiful tunes that fill the air of every continent—between sweetness of palate and sweetness of voice.

There are several bird species with excellent mimicing talents. Did they
have to be aquatic to develp that?

Re: origin of articulate language

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Subject: Re: origin of articulate language
From: littoral...@gmail.com (littor...@gmail.com)
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 by: littor...@gmail.com - Sun, 11 Jul 2021 08:03 UTC

Op zaterdag 10 juli 2021 om 06:43:54 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

....

> Sweets & vocal learning correlation
> Meanwhile, Sushma Reddy, an ornithologist at the University of Minnesota, points out that hummingbirds, songbirds & parrots, 3 groups of birds with lots of nectar-eating spp, “are also the same lineages that have convergently evolved vocal learning”—the ability to make new songs & sounds after listening to other individuals. Could these traits be related? Perhaps there’s a hidden connection between the sugary riches of Australia’s forests & the beautiful tunes that fill the air of every continent—between sweetness of palate & sweetness of voice..
> Ed Yong is a staff writer at The Atlantic, where he covers science.

Complex Vocal Learning and three-dimensional mating environments
Jan Verpooten 2021 Biology & Philosophy

(accepted article, shortened abstract --MV)

CVL (the capacity to imitate new sounds) underpins the evolution of animal vocal cultures & song dialects,
it is a key prerequisite for human speech & song.
Due to its relevance for the understanding of cultural evolution & the biology & evolution of language & music, the trait has gained much scholarly attention.

We have seen tremendous progress in our understanding of morphological, neurological & genetic aspects of CVL,
but its peculiar phylogenetic distribution has remained elusive.

Animals as distinct as hummingbirds & humpback whales share CVL with humans,
but CVL is quite limited in non-human primates.
....
I consider major constraints & functions that have been proposed.
I highlight an esp.promising ecological constraint:
the spatial dimensionality of the environment.

Based on an informal comparative review, I suggest:
CVL is ass.x 3D habitats: air & water.

I argue that this is consistent with
- recent theoretical advances (the coercion-avoidance & dimensionality hypotheses),
- the long-standing hypothesis that mate choice is a major driver of the origin & evolution of CVL,
but I stress
- multiple functions may apply,
- quantitative phylogenetic comparative methods should be employed to finally resolve the issue.

(we already proposed 3D milieus as part of the explanation of CVL,
google "vaneechoutte verhaegen")

Re: origin of articulate language

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From: inval...@invalid.invalid (Primum Sapienti)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology.paleo
Subject: Re: origin of articulate language
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 22:31:57 -0600
Organization: sum
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 by: Primum Sapienti - Fri, 23 Jul 2021 04:31 UTC

littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op zondag 11 juli 2021 om 06:46:56 UTC+2 schreef Primum Sapienti:
>
>
>> There are several bird species with excellent mimicing talents.
>
> Yes, of course: google
> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen"
>

And they did it without water and snorkel noses.

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