On 1/18/2023 11:50 PM, whodat wrote:
> On 1/18/2023 9:45 PM, Volney wrote:
>> On 1/18/2023 7:02 PM, Richard Hertz wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 8:21:26 PM UTC-3, whodat wrote:
>>
>>>> It is an old story, of course. Russian claims have always been bogus.
>>>>
>>>> When Russia and the US decided to have a car race, naturally the US
>>>> won. The next day the Russian press reported, "In the automobile race
>>>> between the two nations Russia came in second and the United States
>>>> was next to last."
>>>
>>> Bogus?
>>>
>>> - 12 July 1957: First launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile
>>> and orbital launch vehicle, the R-7 Semyorka. Pentagon shit bricks.
>> ...
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program
>>
>> Those are all Soviet accomplishments, not necessarily Russian.
>> It's a good thing that the Soviets had Ukraine at the time. Much of
>> the Soviet space engineering was done in Ukraine, and the leader of
>> the early Soviet space program was a Ukrainian genius. He died
>> unexpectedly during the moon race (around 1966) and not long after the
>> Soviet moon program started to unravel.
>>
>> I am starting to think the Ukrainians were most of the brains behind
>> the old Soviet Union. Russia the brawn.
>
> Captured and relocated Germans played an important role along with the
> theft of ideas and new technology from the west. When I was working at
> Lockheed in the mid 1960's we were instructed that if we received a
> phone call requesting information from someone we did not personally
> know we were not to give information until we called them back at an
> internal company extension. If the caller gave an external call-back
> number we were to inform corporate security immediately. The information
> given was that "spies" (whatever that meant) were renting rooms in local
> motels and calling requesting seemingly innocuous detailed information.
>
> The primary target was the department that calculated airframe stress.
>
Long ago, the Soviets were always trying to acquire the Digital VAX
computers, whose export to the Soviet Union was forbidden by the US
government. They had several tricks to swipe them, such as finding out
shipping info and showing up to the loading dock early, pretend to be
the customer and grabbing their computer.

It got to the point where the CPU chip designers actually placed a
message on a VAX CPU chip to any Soviets wanting to reverse-engineer the
chip, reading (in Russian, Cyrillic letters):
"VAX - when you care enough to steal the very best"
https://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/russians.html

Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 1/18/2023 8:25 PM, Volney wrote:
> > On 1/18/2023 6:20 PM, whodat wrote:
> >> On 1/18/2023 4:15 PM, Volney wrote:
> >>> On 1/18/2023 3:47 PM, Edurardo De felice wrote:
> >>>> Volney wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 1/17/2023 4:25 PM, Edurardo De felice wrote:
> >>>>>> Volney wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> the you will ask the good old Russia, bringing your gringos to the
> >>>>>>>> *_international_space_station_*.
> >>>>>>> That's Musk's job now. Out of touch, nymshifter?
> >>>>>> Musk, lol, not even a genuine gringo, still in need of good Russian
> >>>>>> rocket engines.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You really are out of touch, aren't you, nymshifter. SpaceX's rocket
> >>>>> engines a?r?e? d?e?s?i?g?n?e?d? b?y? M?u?s?k?'s? c?o?m?p?a?n?y? a?n?d? b
?u?i?l?t? i?n? T?e?x?a?s?.
> >>>>
> >>>> bullshit, stolen from the Russians, you disgraceful capitalist thieves.
> >>>
> >>> You keep retreating, like the ?Ru????ian? army retreats. First the
> >>> US was dependent on Russian rockets, then you have to change it to
> >>> SpaceX using Russian rocket engines, now you claim SpaceX stole the
> >>> designs from the Russians. Sorry I already told you SpaceX used their
> >>> own designs.
> >>>
> >>> Besides, the Soviets stole the basic designs from the Nazis (the
> >>> original Nazis, not the current ?Ru????ian? Putin neonazi version),
> >>> just like the US did.
> >>
> >> It is an old story, of course. Russian claims have always been bogus.
> >>
> >> When Russia and the US decided to have a car race, naturally the US
> >> won. The next day the Russian press reported, "In the automobile race
> >> between the two nations Russia came in second and the United States
> >> was next to last."
> >>
> > I remember such things. It was even spoofed on the original Star Trek
> > where Chekhov made some claim or other how "a Russian invented XXX"
> > where XXX was something that the entire target audience knew was
> > invented in the west somewhere. Something like the light bulb or
> > telephone or something, I don't remember exactly.
>
> It appears it's (still?) official policy.
>
> "In early July [2021], Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a law
> reserving the use of the word champagne in the Russian market for
> sparkling wines produced in Russia."
>
> https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/its-only-champagne-if-its-made-in-russia/

No worse than Americans, who claim the 'Champagne' is a generic term
(for them) so any wine that bubbles can be called 'champagne',

Jan

On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 5:40:23 AM UTC-3, Volney wrote:
> On 1/18/2023 11:50 PM, whodat wrote:
> > On 1/18/2023 9:45 PM, Volney wrote:
> >> On 1/18/2023 7:02 PM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 8:21:26 PM UTC-3, whodat wrote:
> >>
> >>>> It is an old story, of course. Russian claims have always been bogus.
> >>>>
> >>>> When Russia and the US decided to have a car race, naturally the US
> >>>> won. The next day the Russian press reported, "In the automobile race
> >>>> between the two nations Russia came in second and the United States
> >>>> was next to last."
> >>>
> >>> Bogus?
> >>>
> >>> - 12 July 1957: First launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile
> >>> and orbital launch vehicle, the R-7 Semyorka. Pentagon shit bricks.
> >> ...
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program
> >>
> >> Those are all Soviet accomplishments, not necessarily Russian.
> >> It's a good thing that the Soviets had Ukraine at the time. Much of
> >> the Soviet space engineering was done in Ukraine, and the leader of
> >> the early Soviet space program was a Ukrainian genius. He died
> >> unexpectedly during the moon race (around 1966) and not long after the
> >> Soviet moon program started to unravel.
> >>
> >> I am starting to think the Ukrainians were most of the brains behind
> >> the old Soviet Union. Russia the brawn.
> >
> > Captured and relocated Germans played an important role along with the
> > theft of ideas and new technology from the west. When I was working at
> > Lockheed in the mid 1960's we were instructed that if we received a
> > phone call requesting information from someone we did not personally
> > know we were not to give information until we called them back at an
> > internal company extension. If the caller gave an external call-back
> > number we were to inform corporate security immediately. The information
> > given was that "spies" (whatever that meant) were renting rooms in local
> > motels and calling requesting seemingly innocuous detailed information.
> >
> > The primary target was the department that calculated airframe stress.
> >
> Long ago, the Soviets were always trying to acquire the Digital VAX
> computers, whose export to the Soviet Union was forbidden by the US
> government. They had several tricks to swipe them, such as finding out
> shipping info and showing up to the loading dock early, pretend to be
> the customer and grabbing their computer.
>
> It got to the point where the CPU chip designers actually placed a
> message on a VAX CPU chip to any Soviets wanting to reverse-engineer the
> chip, reading (in Russian, Cyrillic letters):
> "VAX - when you care enough to steal the very best"
> https://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/russians.html

The Yankees, instead, resorted to bribery, citizenship and relocation in US (as usual for corrupted pirates).

1. Operation Moolah: November 1, 1950 (Korean War). USA paid for the defection a fully capable Soviet MiG-15 jet fighter. $50,000, plus
complete political asylum, resettlement in a non-Communist country, and anonymity if desired. Name of pilot unknown.
Sep. 21, 1953, North Korean pilot Lt. No Kum-Sok flew his MiG-15 to the Kimpo Air Base, South Korea, unaware of Operation Moolah.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Moolah

2. On September 6, 1976, Lieutenant Viktor Belenko of the Soviet Air Defense Forces defected by flying his Mikoyan-Gurevich
MiG-25P "Foxbat" aircraft from near Vladivostok in the Far East of the Soviet Union to Hakodate Airport in Hokkaido Prefecture of Japan.
He got 1 million USD plus all other benefits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Belenko

3. More than 100 cases of US bribery for stealing hardware/software/documents in the areas of nuclear physics, ICBM, space rockets
and engines, spacecraft data, Solar system's radar ranging data, active and passive radars, cruise missiles, cavitation torpedos,
nuclear submarines, fighter jets MIG-31, MIG-35, Su-27, Su-30, Su-34, etc., multiglides ICBM, etc.

Now, USA is like crazy trying to get info, HW and SW of the most sophisticated Russian weaponry like Kalibr, Iskander, KH series, etc.

On 1/19/2023 6:53 AM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 5:40:23 AM UTC-3, Volney wrote:
>> On 1/18/2023 11:50 PM, whodat wrote:
>>> On 1/18/2023 9:45 PM, Volney wrote:
>>>> On 1/18/2023 7:02 PM, Richard Hertz wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 8:21:26 PM UTC-3, whodat wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> It is an old story, of course. Russian claims have always been bogus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When Russia and the US decided to have a car race, naturally the US
>>>>>> won. The next day the Russian press reported, "In the automobile race
>>>>>> between the two nations Russia came in second and the United States
>>>>>> was next to last."
>>>>>
>>>>> Bogus?
>>>>>
>>>>> - 12 July 1957: First launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile
>>>>> and orbital launch vehicle, the R-7 Semyorka. Pentagon shit bricks.
>>>> ...
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program
>>>>
>>>> Those are all Soviet accomplishments, not necessarily Russian.
>>>> It's a good thing that the Soviets had Ukraine at the time. Much of
>>>> the Soviet space engineering was done in Ukraine, and the leader of
>>>> the early Soviet space program was a Ukrainian genius. He died
>>>> unexpectedly during the moon race (around 1966) and not long after the
>>>> Soviet moon program started to unravel.
>>>>
>>>> I am starting to think the Ukrainians were most of the brains behind
>>>> the old Soviet Union. Russia the brawn.
>>>
>>> Captured and relocated Germans played an important role along with the
>>> theft of ideas and new technology from the west. When I was working at
>>> Lockheed in the mid 1960's we were instructed that if we received a
>>> phone call requesting information from someone we did not personally
>>> know we were not to give information until we called them back at an
>>> internal company extension. If the caller gave an external call-back
>>> number we were to inform corporate security immediately. The information
>>> given was that "spies" (whatever that meant) were renting rooms in local
>>> motels and calling requesting seemingly innocuous detailed information.
>>>
>>> The primary target was the department that calculated airframe stress.
>>>
>> Long ago, the Soviets were always trying to acquire the Digital VAX
>> computers, whose export to the Soviet Union was forbidden by the US
>> government. They had several tricks to swipe them, such as finding out
>> shipping info and showing up to the loading dock early, pretend to be
>> the customer and grabbing their computer.
>>
>> It got to the point where the CPU chip designers actually placed a
>> message on a VAX CPU chip to any Soviets wanting to reverse-engineer the
>> chip, reading (in Russian, Cyrillic letters):
>> "VAX - when you care enough to steal the very best"
>> https://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/russians.html
>
> The Yankees, instead, resorted to bribery, citizenship and relocation in US (as usual for corrupted pirates).
>
> 1. Operation Moolah: November 1, 1950 (Korean War). USA paid for the defection a fully capable Soviet MiG-15 jet fighter. $50,000, plus
> complete political asylum, resettlement in a non-Communist country, and anonymity if desired. Name of pilot unknown.
> Sep. 21, 1953, North Korean pilot Lt. No Kum-Sok flew his MiG-15 to the Kimpo Air Base, South Korea, unaware of Operation Moolah.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Moolah
>
> 2. On September 6, 1976, Lieutenant Viktor Belenko of the Soviet Air Defense Forces defected by flying his Mikoyan-Gurevich
> MiG-25P "Foxbat" aircraft from near Vladivostok in the Far East of the Soviet Union to Hakodate Airport in Hokkaido Prefecture of Japan.
> He got 1 million USD plus all other benefits.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Belenko
>
> 3. More than 100 cases of US bribery for stealing hardware/software/documents in the areas of nuclear physics, ICBM, space rockets
> and engines, spacecraft data, Solar system's radar ranging data, active and passive radars, cruise missiles, cavitation torpedos,
> nuclear submarines, fighter jets MIG-31, MIG-35, Su-27, Su-30, Su-34, etc., multiglides ICBM, etc.
>
> Now, USA is like crazy trying to get info, HW and SW of the most sophisticated Russian weaponry like Kalibr, Iskander, KH series, etc.

Well we do need to know what western technology the
Russians have stolen and incorporated into their aircraft
in order to plug our leaks.

On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 10:28:35 AM UTC-3, whodat wrote:
> On 1/19/2023 6:53 AM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 5:40:23 AM UTC-3, Volney wrote:
> >> On 1/18/2023 11:50 PM, whodat wrote:
> >>> On 1/18/2023 9:45 PM, Volney wrote:
> >>>> On 1/18/2023 7:02 PM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 8:21:26 PM UTC-3, whodat wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> It is an old story, of course. Russian claims have always been bogus.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When Russia and the US decided to have a car race, naturally the US
> >>>>>> won. The next day the Russian press reported, "In the automobile race
> >>>>>> between the two nations Russia came in second and the United States
> >>>>>> was next to last."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bogus?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - 12 July 1957: First launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile
> >>>>> and orbital launch vehicle, the R-7 Semyorka. Pentagon shit bricks.
> >>>> ...
> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program
> >>>>
> >>>> Those are all Soviet accomplishments, not necessarily Russian.
> >>>> It's a good thing that the Soviets had Ukraine at the time. Much of
> >>>> the Soviet space engineering was done in Ukraine, and the leader of
> >>>> the early Soviet space program was a Ukrainian genius. He died
> >>>> unexpectedly during the moon race (around 1966) and not long after the
> >>>> Soviet moon program started to unravel.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am starting to think the Ukrainians were most of the brains behind
> >>>> the old Soviet Union. Russia the brawn.
> >>>
> >>> Captured and relocated Germans played an important role along with the
> >>> theft of ideas and new technology from the west. When I was working at
> >>> Lockheed in the mid 1960's we were instructed that if we received a
> >>> phone call requesting information from someone we did not personally
> >>> know we were not to give information until we called them back at an
> >>> internal company extension. If the caller gave an external call-back
> >>> number we were to inform corporate security immediately. The information
> >>> given was that "spies" (whatever that meant) were renting rooms in local
> >>> motels and calling requesting seemingly innocuous detailed information.
> >>>
> >>> The primary target was the department that calculated airframe stress..
> >>>
> >> Long ago, the Soviets were always trying to acquire the Digital VAX
> >> computers, whose export to the Soviet Union was forbidden by the US
> >> government. They had several tricks to swipe them, such as finding out
> >> shipping info and showing up to the loading dock early, pretend to be
> >> the customer and grabbing their computer.
> >>
> >> It got to the point where the CPU chip designers actually placed a
> >> message on a VAX CPU chip to any Soviets wanting to reverse-engineer the
> >> chip, reading (in Russian, Cyrillic letters):
> >> "VAX - when you care enough to steal the very best"
> >> https://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/russians.html
> >
> > The Yankees, instead, resorted to bribery, citizenship and relocation in US (as usual for corrupted pirates).
> >
> > 1. Operation Moolah: November 1, 1950 (Korean War). USA paid for the defection a fully capable Soviet MiG-15 jet fighter. $50,000, plus
> > complete political asylum, resettlement in a non-Communist country, and anonymity if desired. Name of pilot unknown.
> > Sep. 21, 1953, North Korean pilot Lt. No Kum-Sok flew his MiG-15 to the Kimpo Air Base, South Korea, unaware of Operation Moolah.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Moolah
> >
> > 2. On September 6, 1976, Lieutenant Viktor Belenko of the Soviet Air Defense Forces defected by flying his Mikoyan-Gurevich
> > MiG-25P "Foxbat" aircraft from near Vladivostok in the Far East of the Soviet Union to Hakodate Airport in Hokkaido Prefecture of Japan.
> > He got 1 million USD plus all other benefits.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Belenko
> >
> > 3. More than 100 cases of US bribery for stealing hardware/software/documents in the areas of nuclear physics, ICBM, space rockets
> > and engines, spacecraft data, Solar system's radar ranging data, active and passive radars, cruise missiles, cavitation torpedos,
> > nuclear submarines, fighter jets MIG-31, MIG-35, Su-27, Su-30, Su-34, etc., multiglides ICBM, etc.
> >
> > Now, USA is like crazy trying to get info, HW and SW of the most sophisticated Russian weaponry like Kalibr, Iskander, KH series, etc.
> Well we do need to know what western technology the
> Russians have stolen and incorporated into their aircraft
> in order to plug our leaks.

Not stolen. Openly and cleanly bought.
But you have to add the brain of Russian scientists, which are years ahead in RTOS, algorithms and SW in general. Plus ingenuity.

Silicon Lifeline: Western Electronics at the Heart of Russia’s War Machine

https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/special-resources/silicon-lifeline-western-electronics-heart-russias-war-machine

On January 19, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> No worse than Americans, who claim the 'Champagne' is a generic term
> (for them) so any wine that bubbles can be called 'champagne',

yeah

And, "toute a l'heure" morphed into "toodle ooh"
It's practically an act of war -

Not to mention "gung ho"

--
Rich

Volney wrote:

> On 1/17/2023 6:04 AM, Richard Hertz wrote:
>> This imbecile that insulted patdolan has no intelligence at all. Only
>> VERBAL DIARRHEA mixed with loop ups in astronomy books terminology to
>> mix it with stupid.
> Y̶o̶u̶ s̶o̶u̶n̶d̶ j̶e̶a̶l̶o̶u̶s̶. D̶o̶ y̶o̶u̶ n̶e̶e̶d̶ a̶t̶t̶e̶n̶t̶i̶o̶n̶, i̶n̶ t̶h̶e̶ f̶o̶r̶m̶ t̶h̶a̶t̶ y̶o̶u̶ w̶a̶n̶t̶ a̶
> r̶e̶p̶o̶s̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ w̶i̶t̶h̶ y̶o̶u̶r̶ n̶a̶m̶e̶ i̶n̶s̶t̶e̶a̶d̶ o̶f̶ D̶o̶l̶a̶n̶'s̶?

kiss my ass, thief. You steal patents.

CNBC Host Praises Moderna CEO For Developing Covid Jab
*_Before_The_Virus_Existed_* In US
https://newspunch.com/cnbc-host-praises-moderna-ceo-for-developing-covid-
jab-before-the-virus-existed-in-us/

During their discussion, CNBC host Rebecca Quick revealed that during a
WEF meeting in 2020, Bancel told her that Moderna was already working on a
Covid 19 vaccine, even though the virus did not yet exist at the time.

“The last time we were here in Davos in the winter was January 2020. And I
saw you at that point, and we were at breakfast right over here. I
remember, and you came up to me in this small room, and you were talking
about how you had actually you were working on a vaccine for COVID. And at
that point, COVID-19 didn’t even really exist in our minds,” Quick told
Bancel.

Bancel responded, *_“I_think_there_was_no_name_at_that_time.”_*

On 1/19/2023 7:53 AM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 5:40:23 AM UTC-3, Volney wrote:
>> On 1/18/2023 11:50 PM, whodat wrote:
>>> On 1/18/2023 9:45 PM, Volney wrote:
>>>> On 1/18/2023 7:02 PM, Richard Hertz wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 8:21:26 PM UTC-3, whodat wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> It is an old story, of course. Russian claims have always been bogus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When Russia and the US decided to have a car race, naturally the US
>>>>>> won. The next day the Russian press reported, "In the automobile race
>>>>>> between the two nations Russia came in second and the United States
>>>>>> was next to last."
>>>>>
>>>>> Bogus?
>>>>>
>>>>> - 12 July 1957: First launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile
>>>>> and orbital launch vehicle, the R-7 Semyorka. Pentagon shit bricks.
>>>> ...
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program
>>>>
>>>> Those are all Soviet accomplishments, not necessarily Russian.
>>>> It's a good thing that the Soviets had Ukraine at the time. Much of
>>>> the Soviet space engineering was done in Ukraine, and the leader of
>>>> the early Soviet space program was a Ukrainian genius. He died
>>>> unexpectedly during the moon race (around 1966) and not long after the
>>>> Soviet moon program started to unravel.
>>>>
>>>> I am starting to think the Ukrainians were most of the brains behind
>>>> the old Soviet Union. Russia the brawn.
>>>
>>> Captured and relocated Germans played an important role along with the
>>> theft of ideas and new technology from the west. When I was working at
>>> Lockheed in the mid 1960's we were instructed that if we received a
>>> phone call requesting information from someone we did not personally
>>> know we were not to give information until we called them back at an
>>> internal company extension. If the caller gave an external call-back
>>> number we were to inform corporate security immediately. The information
>>> given was that "spies" (whatever that meant) were renting rooms in local
>>> motels and calling requesting seemingly innocuous detailed information.
>>>
>>> The primary target was the department that calculated airframe stress.
>>>
>> Long ago, the Soviets were always trying to acquire the Digital VAX
>> computers, whose export to the Soviet Union was forbidden by the US
>> government. They had several tricks to swipe them, such as finding out
>> shipping info and showing up to the loading dock early, pretend to be
>> the customer and grabbing their computer.
>>
>> It got to the point where the CPU chip designers actually placed a
>> message on a VAX CPU chip to any Soviets wanting to reverse-engineer the
>> chip, reading (in Russian, Cyrillic letters):
>> "VAX - when you care enough to steal the very best"
>> https://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/russians.html
>
> The Yankees, instead, resorted to bribery, citizenship and relocation in US (as usual for corrupted pirates).
>
> 1. Operation Moolah: November 1, 1950 (Korean War). USA paid for the defection a fully capable Soviet MiG-15 jet fighter.

> 2. On September 6, 1976, Lieutenant Viktor Belenko of the Soviet Air Defense Forces defected by flying his Mikoyan-Gurevich

> 3. More than 100 cases of US bribery for stealing hardware/software/documents in the areas of nuclear physics, ICBM, space rockets

And you don't think the Soviets/Russians didn't don't do or try to do
the exact things? That's how the Cold War was, and is still today.
Except the Chinese are also doing this, big time.

> Now, USA is like crazy trying to get info, HW and SW of the most sophisticated Russian weaponry like Kalibr, Iskander, KH series, etc.

You do realize "sophisticated Russian weaponry" is a contradiction in
terms...

Sure the west wants to know what's in such weapons to know how to defeat
them, how much technology the Russians stole, obtained despite sanctions
or developed themselves, so they can find leaks in sanctions or know
that X has a capability they didn't know/doesn't have a capability that
they thought it did.

Luckily, the Ukrainian war has been a gold mine for the west to catch up
on the secrets of these and other weapons as there are plenty of remains
of such weapons to study, and perhaps "duds" captured intact. (we won't
know whether/how many exist, they certainly won't tell)

I am thinking how my hunch that the Ukrainians were the brains behind
the Soviet Union is correct. Watching this war where the Russians have
the long range missiles and the Ukrainians don't, and the Russians fire
about 10x the number of artillery shells than the Ukrainians but the war
is currently pretty much a stalemate confirms my hunch. The Russians are
wasting their capabilities. They shell vacant farm fields (many look
like the moon) or level cities with them (Bakhmut, Mariupol), and use
their best missiles (Kh, Kalibr, Iskander) to attack apartment buildings
and hospitals (essentially terrorism) instead of juicy military targets.
The Ukrainians pick and choose their targets more carefully. To take out
a tank or a cluster of troops the Ukrainians often send a drone to drop
a grenade on it while the Russians will shell the entire area with
artillery and hope one hits the target.

It's probably why Putin is after Ukraine to build his Soviet Union V2.0.
He needs the Ukrainian smarts for his empire.

RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
[Russian 'Champagne']

> On January 19, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > No worse than Americans, who claim the 'Champagne' is a generic term
> > (for them) so any wine that bubbles can be called 'champagne',
>
> yeah
>
> And, "toute a l'heure" morphed into "toodle ooh"
> It's practically an act of war -

Right, merely a trade war, but still a war, of a kind.
For more than you want to know about it see for example
<https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/loophole-california-champagne-legal/>

As far as 'Champagne is concerned,
the Americans are just as much thieves as the Russians,
(and idem for 'Port wine' and some others) [1]

Jan

[1] And not only wines, the Americans (and others) also steal
some well known cheese names, like 'Brie' and 'Gouda'.

On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 6:10:22 PM UTC-3, Volney wrote:
> On 1/19/2023 7:53 AM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 5:40:23 AM UTC-3, Volney wrote:
> >> On 1/18/2023 11:50 PM, whodat wrote:
> >>> On 1/18/2023 9:45 PM, Volney wrote:
> >>>> On 1/18/2023 7:02 PM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 8:21:26 PM UTC-3, whodat wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> It is an old story, of course. Russian claims have always been bogus.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When Russia and the US decided to have a car race, naturally the US
> >>>>>> won. The next day the Russian press reported, "In the automobile race
> >>>>>> between the two nations Russia came in second and the United States
> >>>>>> was next to last."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bogus?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - 12 July 1957: First launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile
> >>>>> and orbital launch vehicle, the R-7 Semyorka. Pentagon shit bricks.
> >>>> ...
> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program
> >>>>
> >>>> Those are all Soviet accomplishments, not necessarily Russian.
> >>>> It's a good thing that the Soviets had Ukraine at the time. Much of
> >>>> the Soviet space engineering was done in Ukraine, and the leader of
> >>>> the early Soviet space program was a Ukrainian genius. He died
> >>>> unexpectedly during the moon race (around 1966) and not long after the
> >>>> Soviet moon program started to unravel.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am starting to think the Ukrainians were most of the brains behind
> >>>> the old Soviet Union. Russia the brawn.
> >>>
> >>> Captured and relocated Germans played an important role along with the
> >>> theft of ideas and new technology from the west. When I was working at
> >>> Lockheed in the mid 1960's we were instructed that if we received a
> >>> phone call requesting information from someone we did not personally
> >>> know we were not to give information until we called them back at an
> >>> internal company extension. If the caller gave an external call-back
> >>> number we were to inform corporate security immediately. The information
> >>> given was that "spies" (whatever that meant) were renting rooms in local
> >>> motels and calling requesting seemingly innocuous detailed information.
> >>>
> >>> The primary target was the department that calculated airframe stress.
> >>>
> >> Long ago, the Soviets were always trying to acquire the Digital VAX
> >> computers, whose export to the Soviet Union was forbidden by the US
> >> government. They had several tricks to swipe them, such as finding out
> >> shipping info and showing up to the loading dock early, pretend to be
> >> the customer and grabbing their computer.
> >>
> >> It got to the point where the CPU chip designers actually placed a
> >> message on a VAX CPU chip to any Soviets wanting to reverse-engineer the
> >> chip, reading (in Russian, Cyrillic letters):
> >> "VAX - when you care enough to steal the very best"
> >> https://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/russians.html
> >
> > The Yankees, instead, resorted to bribery, citizenship and relocation in US (as usual for corrupted pirates).
> >
> > 1. Operation Moolah: November 1, 1950 (Korean War). USA paid for the defection a fully capable Soviet MiG-15 jet fighter.
> > 2. On September 6, 1976, Lieutenant Viktor Belenko of the Soviet Air Defense Forces defected by flying his Mikoyan-Gurevich
> > 3. More than 100 cases of US bribery for stealing hardware/software/documents in the areas of nuclear physics, ICBM, space rockets
> And you don't think the Soviets/Russians didn't don't do or try to do
> the exact things? That's how the Cold War was, and is still today.
> Except the Chinese are also doing this, big time.
> > Now, USA is like crazy trying to get info, HW and SW of the most sophisticated Russian weaponry like Kalibr, Iskander, KH series, etc.
> You do realize "sophisticated Russian weaponry" is a contradiction in
> terms...
>
> Sure the west wants to know what's in such weapons to know how to defeat
> them, how much technology the Russians stole, obtained despite sanctions
> or developed themselves, so they can find leaks in sanctions or know
> that X has a capability they didn't know/doesn't have a capability that
> they thought it did.
>
> Luckily, the Ukrainian war has been a gold mine for the west to catch up
> on the secrets of these and other weapons as there are plenty of remains
> of such weapons to study, and perhaps "duds" captured intact. (we won't
> know whether/how many exist, they certainly won't tell)
>
> I am thinking how my hunch that the Ukrainians were the brains behind
> the Soviet Union is correct. Watching this war where the Russians have
> the long range missiles and the Ukrainians don't, and the Russians fire
> about 10x the number of artillery shells than the Ukrainians but the war
> is currently pretty much a stalemate confirms my hunch. The Russians are
> wasting their capabilities. They shell vacant farm fields (many look
> like the moon) or level cities with them (Bakhmut, Mariupol), and use
> their best missiles (Kh, Kalibr, Iskander) to attack apartment buildings
> and hospitals (essentially terrorism) instead of juicy military targets.
> The Ukrainians pick and choose their targets more carefully. To take out
> a tank or a cluster of troops the Ukrainians often send a drone to drop
> a grenade on it while the Russians will shell the entire area with
> artillery and hope one hits the target.
>
> It's probably why Putin is after Ukraine to build his Soviet Union V2.0.
> He needs the Ukrainian smarts for his empire.

You forgot kindergartens and killing babies in incubators.

Also, you forgot that Putin is ruthless and homophobic. Watch your step.

Read the report from British intelligence (RUSI). I put a link to the pdf two posts above this one.

On 2023-01-19 21:21:42 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:

> RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
> [Russian 'Champagne']
>
>> On January 19, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> No worse than Americans, who claim the 'Champagne' is a generic term
>>> (for them) so any wine that bubbles can be called 'champagne',
>>
>> yeah
>>
>> And, "toute a l'heure" morphed into "toodle ooh"
>> It's practically an act of war -
>
> Right, merely a trade war, but still a war, of a kind.
> For more than you want to know about it see for example
> <https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/loophole-california-champagne-legal/>
>
> As far as 'Champagne is concerned,
> the Americans are just as much thieves as the Russians,
> (and idem for 'Port wine' and some others) [1]

Maybe not quite as much. As far as I know the Americans still allow
real Champagne to be called "Champagne".
>
> Jan
>
> [1] And not only wines, the Americans (and others) also steal
> some well known cheese names, like 'Brie' and 'Gouda'.

When I had some American "Camembert" once I was impressed at how good
it was, but it was still a rip-off.

On the other hand no sane Europeans would want to call their cheese
Monterey Jack. It would be like Belgian chocolate makers selling their
product as Hershey bars.

--
athel -- biochemist, not a physicist, but detector of crackpots

On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 5:29:52 AM UTC-3, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

<snip>

> athel -- biochemist, not a physicist, but detector of crackpots

Finally, a change in the stupid "two countries" signature.

But, enzymist, you sold yourself with the new one.

As everything in life, like "a cretin can detect other cretins", "a liar can detect other liars", etc., it takes
a CRACKPOT to detect other CRACKPOTS.

I understand your need to come out of the crackpot's closet.

Welcome, Athel, to the "Dono-Volney-JanPB" club. Now there are two couples to dance. Ask Moroney about the nearest gay bar.

On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 11:43:02 AM UTC-8, Richard Hertz wrote:

> As everything in life, like "a cretin can detect other cretins", "a liar can detect other liars", etc., it takes
> a CRACKPOT to detect other CRACKPOTS.
>
> I understand your need to come out of the crackpot's closet.
>
>... Ask Moroney about the nearest gay bar.

According to your own brand of twisted logic... it takes a gay to detect a gay... I understand your need to come out of the gay closet...

On 1/20/2023 2:43 PM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 5:29:52 AM UTC-3, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> athel -- biochemist, not a physicist, but detector of crackpots
>
> Finally, a change in the stupid "two countries" signature.
>
> But, enzymist, you sold yourself with the new one.
>
> As everything in life, like "a cretin can detect other cretins", "a liar can detect other liars", etc., it takes
> a CRACKPOT to detect other CRACKPOTS.
>
> I understand your need to come out of the crackpot's closet.

So you detect Athel as a crackpot? Which means, for you...?
>
> Welcome, Athel, to the "Dono-Volney-JanPB" club. Now there are two couples to dance. Ask Moroney about the nearest gay bar.

And you also detect gays? Which means...?

Of course you can get away with this. It seems your gaydar is broken.

Volney wrote:

> On 1/20/2023 2:43 PM, Richard Hertz wrote:
>> Welcome, Athel, to the "Dono-Volney-JanPB" club. Now there are two
>> couples to dance. Ask Moroney about the nearest gay bar.
>
> A̶n̶d̶ y̶o̶u̶ a̶l̶s̶o̶ d̶e̶t̶e̶c̶t̶ g̶a̶y̶s̶? W̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ m̶e̶a̶n̶s̶...?
> O̶f̶ c̶o̶u̶r̶s̶e̶ y̶o̶u̶ c̶a̶n̶ g̶e̶t̶ a̶w̶a̶y̶ w̶i̶t̶h̶ t̶h̶i̶s̶. I̶t̶ s̶e̶e̶m̶s̶ y̶o̶u̶r̶ g̶a̶y̶d̶a̶r̶ i̶s̶ b̶r̶o̶k̶e̶n̶.

you cacamericans are all gays, it stays in your corporate constitution.
You are gayified.

MEET JUST A FEW OF THE VACCINE CRIMINALS WHO NEED TO BE HANGED
https://%62%69%74%63%68%75%74%65.com/%76%69%64%65%6f/arIEEPcC4dtl

moreover, you wankers are about *_360_millions_* in that shithole. The
Russians however about 150 millions, with a country 10 times larger than
cacamerica. Compared to the capitalist Chines, *_1.3_billions_*, I can't
even compare. I love these people, the Russians, so very much.

"I'm Russian" Performed By Representatives Of Different Nationalities And
Regions Of Russia
https://%62%69%74%63%68%75%74%65.com/%76%69%64%65%6f/YYCDuMgzWMwV/

On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 4:59:31 PM UTC-3, Paul Alsing wrote:

<snip>

> According to your own brand of twisted logic... it takes a gay to detect a gay... I understand your need to come out of the gay closet...

Actually, the generalization is not extensive to everything. In this case, it takes a straight man to detect a gay, when he makes his move
on the poor straight man. Oh! These rainbows and unicorns people, that are even pride and parade.

Moroney already jumped out with his regular excuses.

On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 12:29:24 PM UTC-8, Richard Hertz wrote:
> On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 4:59:31 PM UTC-3, Paul Alsing wrote:
>
>>> As everything in life, like "a cretin can detect other cretins", "a liar can detect other liars", etc., it takes
>>> a CRACKPOT to detect other CRACKPOTS...
>>> ... I understand your need to come out of the crackpot's closet.

> > According to your own brand of twisted logic... it takes a gay to detect a gay... I understand your need to come out of the gay closet...

> Actually, the generalization is not extensive to everything. In this case, it takes a straight man to detect a gay, when he makes his move
> on the poor straight man. Oh! These rainbows and unicorns people, that are even pride and parade.

You are moving the goalposts yet again in a vain attempt to support you goofy position, which is no big surprise.

You remain as a source of entertainment only since your science chops are essentially nil...

On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 8:28:23 PM UTC-3, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 12:29:24 PM UTC-8, Richard Hertz wrote:

<snip>

> > > According to your own brand of twisted logic... it takes a gay to detect a gay... I understand your need to come out of the gay closet...
>
> > Actually, the generalization is not extensive to everything. In this case, it takes a straight man to detect a gay, when he makes his move
> > on the poor straight man. Oh! These rainbows and unicorns people, that are even pride and parade.
> You are moving the goalposts yet again in a vain attempt to support you goofy position, which is no big surprise.
>
> You remain as a source of entertainment only since your science chops are essentially nil...

Hey! My twisted logic, my rules. Make your own.

On 1/20/2023 2:27 PM, Ciro Di pietro wrote:
> Volney wrote:
>
>> On 1/20/2023 2:43 PM, Richard Hertz wrote:
>>> Welcome, Athel, to the "Dono-Volney-JanPB" club. Now there are two
>>> couples to dance. Ask Moroney about the nearest gay bar.
>>
>> A̶n̶d̶ y̶o̶u̶ a̶l̶s̶o̶ d̶e̶t̶e̶c̶t̶ g̶a̶y̶s̶? W̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ m̶e̶a̶n̶s̶...?
>> O̶f̶ c̶o̶u̶r̶s̶e̶ y̶o̶u̶ c̶a̶n̶ g̶e̶t̶ a̶w̶a̶y̶ w̶i̶t̶h̶ t̶h̶i̶s̶. I̶t̶ s̶e̶e̶m̶s̶ y̶o̶u̶r̶ g̶a̶y̶d̶a̶r̶ i̶s̶ b̶r̶o̶k̶e̶n̶.
>
> you cacamericans are all gays, it stays in your corporate constitution.
> You are gayified.
>
> MEET JUST A FEW OF THE VACCINE CRIMINALS WHO NEED TO BE HANGED
> https://%62%69%74%63%68%75%74%65.com/%76%69%64%65%6f/arIEEPcC4dtl
>
> moreover, you wankers are about *_360_millions_* in that shithole. The
> Russians however about 150 millions, with a country 10 times larger than
> cacamerica. Compared to the capitalist Chines, *_1.3_billions_*, I can't
> even compare. I love these people, the Russians, so very much.
>
> "I'm Russian" Performed By Representatives Of Different Nationalities And
> Regions Of Russia
> https://%62%69%74%63%68%75%74%65.com/%76%69%64%65%6f/YYCDuMgzWMwV/

No modern nation is a monolith.

Eventually every nation will have something similar. Here is
Australia's rendition of the sympathy. BTW, Judith was a one of
a kind in spades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjYEskzWt6I

On 2023-01-20 20:05:53 +0000, Volney said:

> On 1/20/2023 2:43 PM, Richard Hertz wrote:
>> On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 5:29:52 AM UTC-3, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> athel -- biochemist, not a physicist, but detector of crackpots
>>
>> Finally, a change in the stupid "two countries" signature.
>>
>> But, enzymist, you sold yourself with the new one.
>>
>> As everything in life, like "a cretin can detect other cretins", "a
>> liar can detect other liars", etc., it takes
>> a CRACKPOT to detect other CRACKPOTS.
>>
>> I understand your need to come out of the crackpot's closet.
>
> So you detect Athel as a crackpot? Which means, for you...?

Come on now, logical thinking is not Richard Hertz's strong point. What
is? That I don't know.
>>
>> Welcome, Athel, to the "Dono-Volney-JanPB" club. Now there are two
>> couples to dance. Ask Moroney about the nearest gay bar.
>
> And you also detect gays? Which means...?

As above.
>
> Of course you can get away with this. It seems your gaydar is broken.

--
athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016

On 2023-01-21 07:24:12 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:

> On 2023-01-20 20:05:53 +0000, Volney said:
>
>> On 1/20/2023 2:43 PM, Richard Hertz wrote:
>>> On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 5:29:52 AM UTC-3, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> athel -- biochemist, not a physicist, but detector of crackpots
>>>
>>> Finally, a change in the stupid "two countries" signature.
>>>
>>> But, enzymist, you sold yourself with the new one.
>>>
>>> As everything in life, like "a cretin can detect other cretins", "a
>>> liar can detect other liars", etc., it takes
>>> a CRACKPOT to detect other CRACKPOTS.
>>>
>>> I understand your need to come out of the crackpot's closet.
>>
>> So you detect Athel as a crackpot? Which means, for you...?
>
> Come on now, logical thinking is not Richard Hertz's strong point. What
> is? That I don't know.
>>>
>>> Welcome, Athel, to the "Dono-Volney-JanPB" club. Now there are two
>>> couples to dance. Ask Moroney about the nearest gay bar.
>>
>> And you also detect gays? Which means...?
>
> As above.
>>
>> Of course you can get away with this. It seems your gaydar is broken.

athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016: Sorry, wrong
sig. The one that Pat Dolan and Richard Hertz were wetting their
knickers over is appropriate for a quite different Usenet group,
alt.usage.engish, where knowledge of posters' linguistic backgrounds is
an indication of why they say what they do. Until this week I used it
for all groups, because I didn't realize that the crackpots would
misunderstand it. Anyway, now I have four, but I need to choose the
right one manually, as I forgot to do in the preceding post.

--
athel -- biochemist, not a physicist, but detector of crackpots