Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geothermal brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall

Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html

So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.

On Thursday, 1 September 2022 at 15:35:37 UTC+2, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geothermal brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
>
> https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
>
>
> Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
> https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
>
> So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
hedging fake

On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 06:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geothermal brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
>
>https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
>
>
>Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
>https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
>
>So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.

24K tons a year isn't a lot of lithium. Tesla batteries average over
half a ton.

On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 8:56:43 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 06:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geothermal brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
> >
> >https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
> >
> >
> >Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
> >https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
> >
> >So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
> 24K tons a year isn't a lot of lithium. Tesla batteries average over
> half a ton.

"It is estimated that there’s about 63 kg of lithium in a 70 kWh Tesla Model S battery pack"
63kg = 140 pounds
24000 * 2000 pounds / 140 = 340,000 Teslas

https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/breakdown-raw-materials-tesla-batteries-possible-bottleneck/

On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 09:04:08 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 8:56:43 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 06:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geothermal brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
>> >
>> >https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
>> >
>> >
>> >Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
>> >https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
>> >
>> >So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
>> 24K tons a year isn't a lot of lithium. Tesla batteries average over
>> half a ton.
>
>"It is estimated that there’s about 63 kg of lithium in a 70 kWh Tesla Model S battery pack"
>63kg = 140 pounds
>24000 * 2000 pounds / 140 = 340,000 Teslas
>
>https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/breakdown-raw-materials-tesla-batteries-possible-bottleneck/

Still not a lot if we're going to mandate millions of electric cars
per year.

The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:56:43 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 06:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geothermal brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
> >
> >https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
> >
> >
> >Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
> >https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
> >
> >So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
> 24K tons a year isn't a lot of lithium. Tesla batteries average over
> half a ton.

They say its 10x the current demand, and that's just from the Salton Sea plant. USGS has identified potentially 1000s of extraction sites:
"DLE could be a game-changing extraction method, potentially delivering 10 times the current U.S. lithium demand from California’s Salton Sea known geothermal area alone."

They already have a dozen geothermal power generating plants on the Salton Sea, so they're already 3/4 of the way to DLE there:
The Salton Sea sits on the seismically active San Andreas Fault. Molten rock heats the underground water beneath the lakebed into a pressurized brine as hot as 500 degrees Fahrenheit. The brine is already used in nearly a dozen geothermal power plants to create electricity, and these same facilities can serve as an important part of DLE development.

They say lithium is "vast" and they really mean it.

On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:25:24 AM UTC-4, a a wrote:
> On Thursday, 1 September 2022 at 15:35:37 UTC+2, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geothermal brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
> >
> > https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
> >
> >
> > Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
> > https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
> >
> > So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
> hedging fake

You just stick to your obsessing over CMEs.

On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 12:04:12 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 8:56:43 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 06:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geothermal brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
> > >
> > >https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
> > >
> > >
> > >Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
> > >https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
> > >
> > >So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
> > 24K tons a year isn't a lot of lithium. Tesla batteries average over
> > half a ton.
> "It is estimated that there’s about 63 kg of lithium in a 70 kWh Tesla Model S battery pack"
> 63kg = 140 pounds
> 24000 * 2000 pounds / 140 = 340,000 Teslas
>
> https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/breakdown-raw-materials-tesla-batteries-possible-bottleneck/

And the price is going to drop like a rock. Compare the brine extraction methodology to conventional mining practices with all its labor, heavy equipment, equipment operators, and truck train transport to the end users.

On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 09:54:14 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 12:04:12 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
>> On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 8:56:43 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> > On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 06:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geothermal brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
>> > >
>> > >https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
>> > >https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
>> > >
>> > >So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
>> > 24K tons a year isn't a lot of lithium. Tesla batteries average over
>> > half a ton.
>> "It is estimated that there’s about 63 kg of lithium in a 70 kWh Tesla Model S battery pack"
>> 63kg = 140 pounds
>> 24000 * 2000 pounds / 140 = 340,000 Teslas
>>
>> https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/breakdown-raw-materials-tesla-batteries-possible-bottleneck/
>
>And the price is going to drop like a rock.

Or skyrocket if demand is huge.

We could have OLEC, like OPEC, once enough doofuss politicians mandate
electric everything.

Invest in emergency generator companies.

On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:56:43 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 06:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geothermal brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
> >
> >https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
> >
> >
> >Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
> >https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
> >
> >So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
> 24K tons a year isn't a lot of lithium. Tesla batteries average over
> half a ton.

What, each? Hardly. 24 ktons (~24 million kg) is enough for 3 million BEVs with 8 kg per car. That's not the full amount required long term, but it's a good start!

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 12:09:27 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 09:04:08 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 8:56:43 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 06:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geothermal brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
> >> >
> >> >https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
> >> >https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
> >> >
> >> >So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
> >> 24K tons a year isn't a lot of lithium. Tesla batteries average over
> >> half a ton.
> >
> >"It is estimated that there’s about 63 kg of lithium in a 70 kWh Tesla Model S battery pack"
> >63kg = 140 pounds
> >24000 * 2000 pounds / 140 = 340,000 Teslas
> >
> >https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/breakdown-raw-materials-tesla-batteries-possible-bottleneck/
> Still not a lot if we're going to mandate millions of electric cars
> per year.
>
> The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
> trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
> and weeks.

There are no knowledgeable people who doubt there is enough lithium to make all the BEVs we wish. The only issue we have concern about is how rapidly we can develop those resources. I believe lithium is 33rd most abundant element on the Earth. The problem is only that it is not concentrated much. However, we have the technology. We just need to ramp up production and not get behind the curve, because it can take a long time to increase production, much like semiconductors.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 09:43:02 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:56:43 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 06:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geothermal brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
>> >
>> >https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
>> >
>> >
>> >Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
>> >https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
>> >
>> >So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
>> 24K tons a year isn't a lot of lithium. Tesla batteries average over
>> half a ton.
>
>They say its 10x the current demand, and that's just from the Salton Sea plant. USGS has identified potentially 1000s of extraction sites:
>"DLE could be a game-changing extraction method, potentially delivering 10 times the current U.S. lithium demand from California’s Salton Sea known geothermal area alone."
>
>They already have a dozen geothermal power generating plants on the Salton Sea, so they're already 3/4 of the way to DLE there:
>The Salton Sea sits on the seismically active San Andreas Fault. Molten rock heats the underground water beneath the lakebed into a pressurized brine as hot as 500 degrees Fahrenheit. The brine is already used in nearly a dozen geothermal power plants to create electricity, and these same facilities can serve as an important part of DLE development.
>
>They say lithium is "vast" and they really mean it.

The brines around the salton sea are "as high as" 400 PPM lithium.

On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:21:19 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
> On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:56:43 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 06:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geotherm,000al brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
> > >
> > >https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
> > >
> > >
> > >Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
> > >https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
> > >
> > >So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
> > 24K tons a year isn't a lot of lithium. Tesla batteries average over
> > half a ton.
> What, each? Hardly. 24 ktons (~24 million kg) is enough for 3 million BEVs with 8 kg per car. That's not the full amount required long term, but it's a good start!

8kg or 17 pounds per car is too low.

Here is another estimate:

30,000 * 2,200 / 500,000 = 132 pounds or 60 kg per car.

"When fully operational, the plant will produce 30,000 metric tons of lithium per year, making it the largest lithium refining facility in the U.S, according to the company. Piedmont said it will churn out enough material to supply roughly 500,000 electric vehicles annually."

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/01/miner-piedmont-unveils-plans-for-new-lithium-refining-plant-in-push-for-domestic-ev-supply-chains.html

On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 09:43:02 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:56:43 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 06:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geothermal brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
> >> >
> >> >https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
> >> >https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
> >> >
> >> >So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
> >> 24K tons a year isn't a lot of lithium. Tesla batteries average over
> >> half a ton.
> >
> >They say its 10x the current demand, and that's just from the Salton Sea plant. USGS has identified potentially 1000s of extraction sites:
> >"DLE could be a game-changing extraction method, potentially delivering 10 times the current U.S. lithium demand from California’s Salton Sea known geothermal area alone."
> >
> >They already have a dozen geothermal power generating plants on the Salton Sea, so they're already 3/4 of the way to DLE there:
> >The Salton Sea sits on the seismically active San Andreas Fault. Molten rock heats the underground water beneath the lakebed into a pressurized brine as hot as 500 degrees Fahrenheit. The brine is already used in nearly a dozen geothermal power plants to create electricity, and these same facilities can serve as an important part of DLE development.
> >
> >They say lithium is "vast" and they really mean it.
> The brines around the salton sea are "as high as" 400 PPM lithium.

Typically these brines contain many other minerals that are also profitable to extract. So the concentrating costs are shared across a range of minerals.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 5:22:34 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:21:19 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:56:43 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > > On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 06:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geotherm,000al brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
> > > >
> > > >https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
> > > >https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
> > > >
> > > >So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
> > > 24K tons a year isn't a lot of lithium. Tesla batteries average over
> > > half a ton.
> > What, each? Hardly. 24 ktons (~24 million kg) is enough for 3 million BEVs with 8 kg per car. That's not the full amount required long term, but it's a good start!
> 8kg or 17 pounds per car is too low.
>
> Here is another estimate:
>
> 30,000 * 2,200 / 500,000 = 132 pounds or 60 kg per car.
>
> "When fully operational, the plant will produce 30,000 metric tons of lithium per year, making it the largest lithium refining facility in the U.S, according to the company. Piedmont said it will churn out enough material to supply roughly 500,000 electric vehicles annually."
>
> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/01/miner-piedmont-unveils-plans-for-new-lithium-refining-plant-in-push-for-domestic-ev-supply-chains.html

A man with two watches, never knows the correct time.

One problem is counting the weight of the lithium only, or what they call the lithium carbonate equivalent, which is heavier. These reports seldom distinguish.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 3:57:11 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
> On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 5:22:34 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:21:19 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:56:43 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 06:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > > > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geotherm,000al brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
> > > > >
> > > > >https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
> > > > >https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
> > > > >
> > > > >So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
> > > > 24K tons a year isn't a lot of lithium. Tesla batteries average over
> > > > half a ton.
> > > What, each? Hardly. 24 ktons (~24 million kg) is enough for 3 million BEVs with 8 kg per car. That's not the full amount required long term, but it's a good start!
> > 8kg or 17 pounds per car is too low.
> >
> > Here is another estimate:
> >
> > 30,000 * 2,200 / 500,000 = 132 pounds or 60 kg per car.
> >
> > "When fully operational, the plant will produce 30,000 metric tons of lithium per year, making it the largest lithium refining facility in the U.S, according to the company. Piedmont said it will churn out enough material to supply roughly 500,000 electric vehicles annually."
> >
> > https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/01/miner-piedmont-unveils-plans-for-new-lithium-refining-plant-in-push-for-domestic-ev-supply-chains.html
> A man with two watches, never knows the correct time.
>
> One problem is counting the weight of the lithium only, or what they call the lithium carbonate equivalent, which is heavier. These reports seldom distinguish.

Regardless of the weight discrepancy, this proposed largest mining is going to provide 500,000 vehicles, not millions.

On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 7:15:41 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 3:57:11 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 5:22:34 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:21:19 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:56:43 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 06:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > > > > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geotherm,000al brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
> > > > > >https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > >So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
> > > > > 24K tons a year isn't a lot of lithium. Tesla batteries average over
> > > > > half a ton.
> > > > What, each? Hardly. 24 ktons (~24 million kg) is enough for 3 million BEVs with 8 kg per car. That's not the full amount required long term, but it's a good start!
> > > 8kg or 17 pounds per car is too low.
> > >
> > > Here is another estimate:
> > >
> > > 30,000 * 2,200 / 500,000 = 132 pounds or 60 kg per car.
> > >
> > > "When fully operational, the plant will produce 30,000 metric tons of lithium per year, making it the largest lithium refining facility in the U..S, according to the company. Piedmont said it will churn out enough material to supply roughly 500,000 electric vehicles annually."
> > >
> > > https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/01/miner-piedmont-unveils-plans-for-new-lithium-refining-plant-in-push-for-domestic-ev-supply-chains.html
> > A man with two watches, never knows the correct time.
> >
> > One problem is counting the weight of the lithium only, or what they call the lithium carbonate equivalent, which is heavier. These reports seldom distinguish.
> Regardless of the weight discrepancy, this proposed largest mining is going to provide 500,000 vehicles, not millions.

Which is pretty much all the BEVs sold in the US last year.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 06:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Right now most of the world's lithium is coming from Australia #1, China, Chile and Argentina. The U.S. DoE is going to change that with the discovery of deep subsurface brines loaded with lithium. The U.S.G.S. has already completed the work of identifying relatively massive "hot spots" of lithium brines, mostly throughout the western states. When they say hot, they really mean it, this brine is really HOT. DoE plans to extract the lithium from geothermal brines used to generate electricity. They can do this on the fly and at least one proto-installation is in operation demonstrating the technology.
>>
>> https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/articles/can-geothermal-energy-solve-lithium-shortfall
>>
>>
>> Using Direct Lithium Extraction To Secure U.S. Supplies
>> https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/using-direct-lithium-extraction-to-secure-us-supplies.html
>>
>> So as long as they don't do something like induce a Yellowstone super eruption, things are looking quite good.
>
> 24K tons a year isn't a lot of lithium. Tesla batteries average over
> half a ton.
>

Well, they could just frack to get more brine. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
> trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
> and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn't need all that many cars, and
if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 9:25:03 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
> > jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > > The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
> > > trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
> > > and weeks.
> >
> > Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn't need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
> There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn't enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.
>
> In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.

We just need more reliable chargers around and we can carry smaller batteries.

> If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).

If and only if they are tied to the grid.

> Rich C does have an emotional objection to the idea, but if the car owners were paid enough for the service they might feel better about it.

He won't object as long as it works for Tesla.

On 2022-09-05 18:08, Robert Latest wrote:
> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
>> trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
>> and weeks.
>
> Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn't need all that many cars, and
> if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
>

If anything, I'd expect the number of cars on the road to grow.
Soon we'll see driverless cars going somewhere all by themselves
to pick someone up!

Jeroen Belleman

On 5 Sep 2022 16:08:12 GMT, Robert Latest <boblatest@yahoo.com> wrote:

>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
>> trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
>> and weeks.
>
>Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn't need all that many cars, and
>if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.

The green movement is precisely intended to create energy poverty in
the working classes, and part of that is to take away our cars. So the
elites will have more room on the freeways for their SUV caravans on
the way to their private jets.

Really.

On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 9:25:03 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
>> On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
>> > jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> > > The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
>> > > trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
>> > > and weeks.
>> >
>> > Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn't need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
>> There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn't enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.
>>
>> In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.
>
>We just need more reliable chargers around and we can carry smaller batteries.
>
> > If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).
>
>If and only if they are tied to the grid.

Insanity. How many people are going to volunteer for their cars to be
used for utility backup? So they can run down their batteries while
other people recharge!

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 1:25:59 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 9:25:03 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
> >> > jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> > > The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
> >> > > trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
> >> > > and weeks.
> >> >
> >> > Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn't need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
> >> There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn't enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.
> >>
> >> In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.
> >
> >We just need more reliable chargers around and we can carry smaller batteries.
> >
> > > If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).
> >
> >If and only if they are tied to the grid.
> Insanity. How many people are going to volunteer for their cars to be
> used for utility backup? So they can run down their batteries while
> other people recharge!

If I get free parking at the airport and be sure that it is charged up before arrival. That might work.

On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 19:52:36 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

>On 2022-09-05 18:08, Robert Latest wrote:
>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
>>> trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
>>> and weeks.
>>
>> Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn't need all that many cars, and
>> if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
>>
>
>If anything, I'd expect the number of cars on the road to grow.
>Soon we'll see driverless cars going somewhere all by themselves
>to pick someone up!
>
>Jeroen Belleman

People in China, India, Africa, Indonesia want what we have: electric
lights, cars, clean cooking fuel, safe hot and cold water, fans and
air conditioning, transport, internet, schools, vermin-free floors,
beds and chairs and stuff. And they will get all that. That will take
energy.