Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

"I am your density." -- George McFly in "Back to the Future"


tech / sci.physics.relativity / Re: Relationship between the Time Machine ( 1895) and relativity

SubjectAuthor
* Relationship between the Time Machine ( 1895) and relativitykellehe...@gmail.com
`* Re: Relationship between the Time Machine ( 1895) and relativityMikko
 +- Re: Relationship between the Time Machine ( 1895) and relativityRichard Hertz
 `- Re: Relationship between the Time Machine ( 1895) and relativityThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn

1
Relationship between the Time Machine ( 1895) and relativity

<651a8ac0-8e07-4528-b97b-220435492928n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=104916&group=sci.physics.relativity#104916

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:3711:b0:534:d47e:d861 with SMTP id np17-20020a056214371100b00534d47ed861mr666297qvb.13.1674290386523;
Sat, 21 Jan 2023 00:39:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:aca:2801:0:b0:369:6dc0:3e27 with SMTP id
1-20020aca2801000000b003696dc03e27mr790133oix.162.1674290386222; Sat, 21 Jan
2023 00:39:46 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2023 00:39:45 -0800 (PST)
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=78.16.202.106; posting-account=I3BSGAoAAADBa0hVQRltLB3YrdNlBH-l
NNTP-Posting-Host: 78.16.202.106
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <651a8ac0-8e07-4528-b97b-220435492928n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Relationship between the Time Machine ( 1895) and relativity
From: kelleher...@gmail.com (kellehe...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2023 08:39:46 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3388
 by: kellehe...@gmail.com - Sat, 21 Jan 2023 08:39 UTC

Had a great deal of fun this morning with the chatbot using the question above. The computer-generated script is pure fun and something I discovered here in human form over two decades ago.

Here is the answer I got from the machine-

" H.G. Wells' 1895 novel "The Time Machine" is a science fiction story that explores the concept of time travel, but it predates the theory of relativity proposed by Albert Einstein. Einstein's theory of special relativity, which was published in 1905, introduced the concept of time dilation, which means that time can appear to pass differently for two observers depending on their relative motion or proximity to a massive object. This concept is related to time travel in the sense that it suggests that time can be affected by the observer's motion or position in space.

Einstein's theory of general relativity, which was published in 1915, introduced the concept of space-time, which is a four-dimensional continuum in which the three dimensions of space and the dimension of time are closely intertwined. This theory also introduced the concept of a "gravitational time dilation", which means that time appears to pass more slowly in stronger gravitational fields. This idea also relates to time travel, as it suggests that time can be affected by the observer's position in a gravitational field.

While H.G. Wells' story may have been inspired by the idea of time travel, it is not directly related to Einstein's theory of relativity. The Time Machine is a purely fictional story, and its concept of time travel does not rely on the scientific principles of special or general relativity. However, the idea of time dilation and the connection between time and space-time is also present in some of the science fiction story that explores time travel, as a way to explain the mechanics of time travel." Chatbot

In summary, while H.G. Wells' "The Time Machine" is a science fiction story that explores the concept of time travel, it predates Einstein's theory of relativity, which introduced the scientific concepts of time dilation and space-time, which relates to the idea of time travel."

Funny, funny, funny although few get the original joke and prank a century ago.

Re: Relationship between the Time Machine ( 1895) and relativity

<tqggq1$2imae$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=104918&group=sci.physics.relativity#104918

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mikko.le...@iki.fi (Mikko)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Relationship between the Time Machine ( 1895) and relativity
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2023 13:03:29 +0200
Organization: -
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <tqggq1$2imae$1@dont-email.me>
References: <651a8ac0-8e07-4528-b97b-220435492928n@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="54baf4bf1a6fe68b03b1aa0c36f60df8";
logging-data="2709838"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX197d4gjYAENtJDAVad+K6pM"
User-Agent: Unison/2.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:wWzdjCBeMnFDDQ1raRIaSN2JAMo=
 by: Mikko - Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:03 UTC

On 2023-01-21 08:39:45 +0000, kellehe...@gmail.com said:

> Had a great deal of fun this morning with the chatbot using the
> question above. The computer-generated script is pure fun and something
> I discovered here in human form over two decades ago.

...

> In summary, while H.G. Wells' "The Time Machine" is a science fiction
> story that explores the concept of time travel, it predates Einstein's
> theory of relativity, which introduced the scientific concepts of time
> dilation and space-time, which relates to the idea of time travel."
>
> Funny, funny, funny although few get the original joke and prank a century ago.

The bot's answer is not complete.

The concept of spacetime is old although the term is new.

A primitive form of spacetime is presented by St. Augustine in Confessions.
In the Encyclopedia the idea that time can be considered as the fourth
dimension is presented. H. G. Wells says in The Time Machine that he got
the idea from Simon Newcomb's presentation in radio. The connection to
relativity was made in 1906 by Poincaré using an imaginary time dimension.
In 1908 Minkownski formulated the spacetime with four real dimensions.
In 1915 Einstein introduced a curved spacetime.

Mikko

Re: Relationship between the Time Machine ( 1895) and relativity

<2632fe0e-771d-4645-ac5f-8453caf6582dn@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=104920&group=sci.physics.relativity#104920

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:a37:ae03:0:b0:708:f0d3:2372 with SMTP id x3-20020a37ae03000000b00708f0d32372mr522653qke.691.1674307539568;
Sat, 21 Jan 2023 05:25:39 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:6c15:b0:15e:d9fe:f5ec with SMTP id
na21-20020a0568706c1500b0015ed9fef5ecmr1862089oab.46.1674307539339; Sat, 21
Jan 2023 05:25:39 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2023 05:25:39 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <tqggq1$2imae$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=181.84.180.93; posting-account=blnzJwoAAAA-82jKM1F-uNmKbbRkrU6D
NNTP-Posting-Host: 181.84.180.93
References: <651a8ac0-8e07-4528-b97b-220435492928n@googlegroups.com> <tqggq1$2imae$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <2632fe0e-771d-4645-ac5f-8453caf6582dn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Relationship between the Time Machine ( 1895) and relativity
From: hertz...@gmail.com (Richard Hertz)
Injection-Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2023 13:25:39 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 4676
 by: Richard Hertz - Sat, 21 Jan 2023 13:25 UTC

On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 8:03:32 AM UTC-3, Mikko wrote:
> On 2023-01-21 08:39:45 +0000, kellehe...@gmail.com said:
>
> > Had a great deal of fun this morning with the chatbot using the
> > question above. The computer-generated script is pure fun and something
> > I discovered here in human form over two decades ago.
> ...
> > In summary, while H.G. Wells' "The Time Machine" is a science fiction
> > story that explores the concept of time travel, it predates Einstein's
> > theory of relativity, which introduced the scientific concepts of time
> > dilation and space-time, which relates to the idea of time travel."
> >
> > Funny, funny, funny although few get the original joke and prank a century ago.
> The bot's answer is not complete.
>
> The concept of spacetime is old although the term is new.
>
> A primitive form of spacetime is presented by St. Augustine in Confessions.
> In the Encyclopedia the idea that time can be considered as the fourth
> dimension is presented. H. G. Wells says in The Time Machine that he got
> the idea from Simon Newcomb's presentation in radio. The connection to
> relativity was made in 1906 by Poincaré using an imaginary time dimension.
> In 1908 Minkownski formulated the spacetime with four real dimensions.
> In 1915 Einstein introduced a curved spacetime.
>
> Mikko

There are many fictional ideas, since H.G. Wells, about time travel and paradoxes, which were exploited in many books
and movies (Back to the future, Contact, Interstellar, as few examples in the last 35 years). The explanations are increasingly
complex, but spectators don't care as long it provides a nice entertainment..

If you mix Einstein's anecdote about him dreaming riding a ray of light and the main "scientific" argument of Contact,

What could have EInstein see, if he peaked a little bit ahead of his ray of light head?. Allegedly, he could have seen PAST
light, conveying information about the PREVIOUS REALITY than the one he was living instantly, when riding the ray of light.

Suppose that, magically, a machine sends (synchronously) 2D pics taken every single microsecond as beams of light which
are directional and focused on some arbitrary point in the celestial sphere..

Suppose that you just mount (having conscientiousness) ANY of such light pulses conveying optical information about a given
time, 1 usec appart from other pics.

You're moving at "c" speed, so you can't look back to the NEXT PIC, which is 1 usec behind (FUTURE).

But, IF you could peek onto the next pic (PAST), 1 usec ahead of your position (spacetime position), you could observe the past.

If Einstein's GR is applied in full gear, a 4D geodesics is what you are mounting. And such geodesics NEVER EVER connect with
another 4D geodesics, no matter how infinitesimally close it is.

Then, the meaning of the above reasoning is that you NEVER will be able to end in a connected spacetime POINT, at which different
geodesics merge.

IF the above paragraph is logically true, there WOULD NOT BE time paradoxes, as you never could go back using ANOTHER 4D geodesics.

And this reasoning would kill all the scify arguments used in novels and movies.

Besides, there are no visible mechanisms that could be used to GO BACK TO THE FUTURE.

Re: Relationship between the Time Machine ( 1895) and relativity

<21770956.EfDdHjke4D@PointedEars.de>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=106219&group=sci.physics.relativity#106219

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.mb-net.net!open-news-network.org!.POSTED.178.197.200.170!not-for-mail
From: PointedE...@web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Relationship between the Time Machine ( 1895) and relativity
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2023 07:04:56 +0100
Organization: PointedEars Software (PES)
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <21770956.EfDdHjke4D@PointedEars.de>
References: <651a8ac0-8e07-4528-b97b-220435492928n@googlegroups.com> <tqggq1$2imae$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <usenet@PointedEars.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
Injection-Info: gwaiyur.mb-net.net; posting-host="178.197.200.170";
logging-data="1272458"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@open-news-network.org"
User-Agent: KNode/4.14.10
Cancel-Lock: sha1:yYaLBmeguj0+RxoIdQ4+OIjn4Q4=
X-Face: %i>XG-yXR'\"2P/C_aO%~;2o~?g0pPKmbOw^=NT`tprDEf++D.m7"}HW6.#=U:?2GGctkL,f89@H46O$ASoW&?s}.k+&.<b';Md8`dH6iqhT)6C^.Px|[=M@7=Ik[_w<%n1Up"LPQNu2m8|L!/3iby{-]A+#YE}Kl{Cw$\U!kD%K}\2jz"QQP6Uqr],./"?;=4v
X-User-ID: U2FsdGVkX1/hh9n+7CO7dN/yfxUwUIzCaHRXW/1jSFX5B1JWeUY7eQ==
Face: 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
 by: Thomas 'Pointed - Sun, 12 Feb 2023 06:04 UTC

Mikko wrote:

> A primitive form of spacetime is presented by St. Augustine in
> Confessions.

Give me a break.

PointedEars
--
Q: What did the nuclear physicist post on the laboratory door
when he went camping?
A: 'Gone fission'.
(from: WolframAlpha)

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor