What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.

On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 3:18:37 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
> in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
> room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.

The biggest challenge is implementing pay-per-view, which requires two-way
communication. Yeah, it could be done with a side channel into
the telephone system, but that's old-school.

CATV was ''community antenna television" at one time, which was exactly
a distribution of signals effort. That purity is lacking in the present offerings
from cable companies. DOCSIS modems and streaming of... nearly
everything, isn't a TV function, but IS happening; there's a lot of cable
boxes with hard drives inside (buffering video, not always with purchase-this-video
recording and playback).

On 9/21/2022 5:12 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 3:18:37 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>> What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
>> in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
>> room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.
>
> The biggest challenge is implementing pay-per-view, which requires two-way
> communication. Yeah, it could be done with a side channel into
> the telephone system, but that's old-school.

I was interested in how the *video* was distributed. This seems like
IP is the only modern answer, regardless of authentication, gating, etc.
I.e., you can put 1 drop, 100 drops or 1000 drops with basically the
same infrastructure and system design.

I don't think RF scales quite that easily (though the noise floor may
be far enough down that it isn't a practical limit on number of "loads")

> CATV was ''community antenna television" at one time, which was exactly
> a distribution of signals effort. That purity is lacking in the present offerings
> from cable companies. DOCSIS modems and streaming of... nearly
> everything, isn't a TV function, but IS happening; there's a lot of cable
> boxes with hard drives inside (buffering video, not always with purchase-this-video
> recording and playback).

On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:18:22 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

>What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
>in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
>room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.

Why not ethernet?

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in news:tgg2jl$1tvcm$1
@dont-email.me:

> What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
> in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
> room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.
>
>
I will try to remember what little my experience has taught me.

It is referred to as "post wire" because it almost always involves
an already existing building and many times even new construction
doesn't integrate it well or in a timely manner for the canle
providers, and it ends up installed afterward, hence the term.

So, it then depends on the building design. The typical '60s /
'70s 12 unit no frills apartment building was six units in front and
six in back with a foyer / stairwell in the middle of the building.
In many cases the first floor is "half sunk", so the plumbing and
electricity compete for wall space and when drilling those front side
first floor drop holes, one must be very careful not to hit water
lines. The cable companies used to take money from each check of the
installers up to a few thousand dollars back in the '80s and retain
it incase you hit water. Because it causes damage in that unit, the
water has to be turned off and immediate repairs are expensive. So,
carpet and walls and plumbing, and you still have to put a cable drop
into the unit.

We had to mount wires on the outsides of the building inside sheath
segments that were like a 3/4 turn U shape to cover the lines down to
the ground, then the uderground crew would come and bury them around
back to the lock box location where we would put them all (12x2) in
an even bigger U channel to go up the wall to a high mounted lock
box. Everything was attached with single sided clamps and Hilti
Nails into moartar joints between bricks. All the wall plates in the
apartments were single horizontal holes from outside. Lots of RTV
caulk. This is what we installers referred to as "pop and drop".
12 holes, 12 lines, 4 vertical sheaths, 12 wall plates and done.

Then there were buildings that had pitched roof and attics. Then,
all the lines stay up in the attic and drops would be sent verticle
into the wall, just like top fed electrical lines are, down to the
wall plate. For single floor dwellings. Multiple, we just did "pop
and drop" on the exterior just as above to keep the whole thing
consistent and quick. Sometimes going up the wall and into the attic
to run to a single point for the lock box on the outside wall. No
burial needed then. Cheaper.

Then I did some more modern apartment complex units that were more
upscale. Then the worry was the door being answered by a horny wife
in a nightgown or bathrobe. ;-)

I did a high rise once as well and it was where the lines were
being ran to the elevator shafts and 'dropped' to the basement to end
up in lock boxes.

At the time I worked for a CUBE system and it was dual siamesed
coaxes. So the holes had to be bigger and the outside house drop is
heavier. A real PITA, and especially if they had UG cable being
used.

Some considerations are getting the cable company to give or sell
you their premium coax fittings. As in do not rely on the radio
shack level crap at home depot or even trust an amazon choice.
They use premium, sealed fittings so they do not have to upgrade /
refit any installations. Get a nice crimper. I think I use Kline
tools, and there are other very good makers as well. Cutting good
fittings is important because it is presumably the last time you will
be seeing it if it is on the back side of the wall plate.

Also use an anti-oxidant from GE or other maker on the fittings
just mentioned. I guess premium cable is a nice choice as well.

Thing is... everything is HDMI now and TVs still do have RF coax
inputs, but getting the content might not be easy.

Even cable TV channels are all digital, even if the last drop to
your TV is a coax. They are addressable and I do not know of many
that are straight analog any more. I am sure some cities are still
behind. So, not many "traps" on the ports any more.

I know nothing about an HDMI distribution set up. I would just go
wifi at that point, or hard wire a network just to carry the
streaming data. Smart TVs have wifi and read several stream types
nowadays.

Otherwise, you would have to gather what? HDTV broadcasts?

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
news:826296b6-4b58-4194-9b07-21d200a54420n@googlegroups.com:

> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 3:18:37 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>> What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
>> in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
>> room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.
>
> The biggest challenge is implementing pay-per-view, which requires
> two-way communication. Yeah, it could be done with a side
> channel into the telephone system, but that's old-school.
>
> CATV was ''community antenna television" at one time, which was
> exactly a distribution of signals effort. That purity is lacking
> in the present offerings from cable companies. DOCSIS modems
> and streaming of... nearly everything, isn't a TV function, but IS
> happening; there's a lot of cable boxes with hard drives inside
> (buffering video, not always with purchase-this-video recording
> and playback).

Just Dangload them thar movies and play 'em from a USB stick! Yee
Ha! Them thar smart TVs will play dem files....

I just watched that thar new Djinn movie. It is a really good
flic.

On 2022-09-21, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
> What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
> in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
> room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.

for a hotel:

In the old days they did't they just put n decoders in a back office
each decoding a different channnel onto a different output channel and
then combined those RF signals, and fed them to the distribution
amplifiers.

These days it's probably all IP over ethernet.

--
Jasen.

On 9/21/2022 11:43 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
> On 2022-09-21, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>> What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
>> in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
>> room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.
>
> for a hotel:
>
> In the old days they did't they just put n decoders in a back office
> each decoding a different channnel onto a different output channel and
> then combined those RF signals, and fed them to the distribution
> amplifiers.

One would think there would be a turnkey solution as there are
lots of hotels, lots of apartment houses, multiunit condos, etc.
I've not been able to find evidence of these.

Originally, it would have been a matter of just delivering
signal to N units (assume each unit had their own STB). So,
an N-way distribution amplifier (where N is reasonably large).

Or, "rebroadcasting" downconverted to normal VHF/UHF channels.
This would add some sort of M-way tuner on the front end,
a mixer and N-way distribution amp.

The need to support logically "separate" drops to each customer
(so each could have his own cable modem) would be a relatively
new addition.

> These days it's probably all IP over ethernet.

No doubt. Even if the STB *looks* like a cable converter.

On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:18:22 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

>What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
>in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
>room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.

What are the individual channels like ? Analog ,8VSB digital or DVB-C
digital ?

The combined peak -to-average ratio limits the number of channels
through an amplifier.

Especially with analog signals, the added noise in each amplifier
limits the number of amplifiers in series.

For digital signals, the number of series connected amplifiers can be
very large, if after a few amplifiers decode each channel
individually, apply ECC and remodulate each channel individually. This
allows eliminating the added amplifier noise as well as amplifier
distortion.

On Thursday, 22 September 2022 at 13:36:42 UTC+2, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:18:22 -0700, Don Y
> <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
> >What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
> >in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
> >room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.
> What are the individual channels like ? Analog ,8VSB digital or DVB-C
> digital ?
>
> The combined peak -to-average ratio limits the number of channels
> through an amplifier.
>
> Especially with analog signals, the added noise in each amplifier
> limits the number of amplifiers in series.
>
> For digital signals, the number of series connected amplifiers can be
> very large, if after a few amplifiers decode each channel
> individually, apply ECC and remodulate each channel individually. This
> allows eliminating the added amplifier noise as well as amplifier
> distortion.
what about fiber ?

modern TVs come with fiber output/input

On 9/22/2022 4:36 AM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:18:22 -0700, Don Y
> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>
>> What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
>> in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
>> room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.
>
> What are the individual channels like ? Analog ,8VSB digital or DVB-C
> digital ?

I'm thinking of "classic" (analog) cable. Digital transport eliminates
a lot of problems that, I would assume, would plague "wide" analog
distribution.

> The combined peak -to-average ratio limits the number of channels
> through an amplifier.
>
> Especially with analog signals, the added noise in each amplifier
> limits the number of amplifiers in series.

Exactly. Imagine taking a CATV feed (or, from a satellite dish
atop a 400 unit hotel) and distributing that signal to all of the
units therein.

> For digital signals, the number of series connected amplifiers can be
> very large, if after a few amplifiers decode each channel
> individually, apply ECC and remodulate each channel individually. This
> allows eliminating the added amplifier noise as well as amplifier
> distortion.

On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 06:43:03 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
<usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

>On 2022-09-21, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>> What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
>> in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
>> room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.
>
>for a hotel:
>
>In the old days they did't they just put n decoders in a back office
>each decoding a different channnel onto a different output channel and
>then combined those RF signals, and fed them to the distribution
>amplifiers.
>
>These days it's probably all IP over ethernet.

MoCA, Multimedia over Coax Alliance. Kind of retro.

On Thursday, 22 September 2022 at 12:47:18 UTC+1, a a wrote:
> On Thursday, 22 September 2022 at 13:36:42 UTC+2, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
> > On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:18:22 -0700, Don Y
> > <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
> > >What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
> > >in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
> > >room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.
> > What are the individual channels like ? Analog ,8VSB digital or DVB-C
> > digital ?
> >
> > The combined peak -to-average ratio limits the number of channels
> > through an amplifier.
> >
> > Especially with analog signals, the added noise in each amplifier
> > limits the number of amplifiers in series.
> >
> > For digital signals, the number of series connected amplifiers can be
> > very large, if after a few amplifiers decode each channel
> > individually, apply ECC and remodulate each channel individually. This
> > allows eliminating the added amplifier noise as well as amplifier
> > distortion.
> what about fiber ?
>
> modern TVs come with fiber output/input

That is usually just for audio input and output. However, many GPON fibre modems
operate with three different wavelengths on the fibre. One for internet
uplink, another for internet downlink and a third for TV downlink.

John

On 2022-09-22 14:53, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/22/2022 4:36 AM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:18:22 -0700, Don Y
>> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
>>> in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
>>> room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.
>>
>> What are the individual channels like ? Analog ,8VSB digital or DVB-C
>> digital ?
>
> I'm thinking of "classic" (analog) cable. Digital transport eliminates
> a lot of problems that, I would assume, would plague "wide" analog
> distribution.
>
>> The combined peak -to-average ratio limits the number of channels
>> through an amplifier.
>>
>> Especially with analog signals, the added noise in each amplifier
>> limits the number of amplifiers in series.
>
> Exactly. Imagine taking a CATV feed (or, from a satellite dish
> atop a 400 unit hotel) and distributing that signal to all of the
> units therein.

I see no problem. The classic analog way was to amplify the signal
and then distribute it through a many-way splitter, which may be
a star or composed of multiple units distributed throughout the
building. You'd never (well, almost never) put amplifiers in series.

Jeroen Belleman

On 9/22/2022 7:59 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> On 2022-09-22 14:53, Don Y wrote:
>> On 9/22/2022 4:36 AM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:18:22 -0700, Don Y
>>> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
>>>> in large, multi-unit sites?  E.g., running "Cable" to every
>>>> room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.
>>>
>>> What are the individual channels like  ? Analog ,8VSB digital or DVB-C
>>> digital ?
>>
>> I'm thinking of "classic" (analog) cable.  Digital transport eliminates
>> a lot of problems that, I would assume, would plague "wide" analog
>> distribution.
>>
>>> The combined peak -to-average ratio limits the number of channels
>>> through an amplifier.
>>>
>>>   Especially with analog signals, the added noise in each amplifier
>>> limits the number of amplifiers in series.
>>
>> Exactly.  Imagine taking a CATV feed (or, from a satellite dish
>> atop a 400 unit hotel) and distributing that signal to all of the
>> units therein.
>
> I see no problem. The classic analog way was to amplify the signal
> and then distribute it through a many-way splitter, which may be
> a star or composed of multiple units distributed throughout the
> building. You'd never (well, almost never) put amplifiers in series.

Each split loses signal. So, you need to make up for that, "up front"
(if you don't include additional distribution amplifiers "mid stream")
Note that it's not impractical for there to be thousands of units
in a single establishment (e.g., The MGM Grand has almost 7000 units
and was opened in the early 90's -- presumably, they have had "in
room TV service" since their opening)

On 2022-09-22 17:14, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/22/2022 7:59 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>> On 2022-09-22 14:53, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 9/22/2022 4:36 AM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:18:22 -0700, Don Y
>>>> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
>>>>> in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
>>>>> room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.
>>>>
>>>> What are the individual channels like ? Analog ,8VSB digital or DVB-C
>>>> digital ?
>>>
>>> I'm thinking of "classic" (analog) cable. Digital transport eliminates
>>> a lot of problems that, I would assume, would plague "wide" analog
>>> distribution.
>>>
>>>> The combined peak -to-average ratio limits the number of channels
>>>> through an amplifier.
>>>>
>>>> Especially with analog signals, the added noise in each amplifier
>>>> limits the number of amplifiers in series.
>>>
>>> Exactly. Imagine taking a CATV feed (or, from a satellite dish
>>> atop a 400 unit hotel) and distributing that signal to all of the
>>> units therein.
>>
>> I see no problem. The classic analog way was to amplify the signal
>> and then distribute it through a many-way splitter, which may be
>> a star or composed of multiple units distributed throughout the
>> building. You'd never (well, almost never) put amplifiers in series.
>
> Each split loses signal. So, you need to make up for that, "up front"
> (if you don't include additional distribution amplifiers "mid stream")
> Note that it's not impractical for there to be thousands of units
> in a single establishment (e.g., The MGM Grand has almost 7000 units
> and was opened in the early 90's -- presumably, they have had "in
> room TV service" since their opening)

A TV tuner needs about -80dBm to function. For 7000 tuners, you'd
need -41.5dBm (-80 + 10log(7k)). Allow another 13dB or so for
splitter losses (roughly log2(7k) dB), that's -28.5dBm. Add 20dB for
100 channels and another 20dB for headroom. We're at +11.5dBm. Add,
say, another 12dB for distribution cabling losses. Final power
needed is about +23.5dBm, or a little over 200mW.

Looks like a walk in the park for the amplifier.

Jeroen Belleman

On 9/22/2022 2:47 PM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> On 2022-09-22 17:14, Don Y wrote:
>> On 9/22/2022 7:59 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-22 14:53, Don Y wrote:
>>>> On 9/22/2022 4:36 AM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:18:22 -0700, Don Y
>>>>> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
>>>>>> in large, multi-unit sites?  E.g., running "Cable" to every
>>>>>> room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the individual channels like  ? Analog ,8VSB digital or DVB-C
>>>>> digital ?
>>>>
>>>> I'm thinking of "classic" (analog) cable.  Digital transport eliminates
>>>> a lot of problems that, I would assume, would plague "wide" analog
>>>> distribution.
>>>>
>>>>> The combined peak -to-average ratio limits the number of channels
>>>>> through an amplifier.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Especially with analog signals, the added noise in each amplifier
>>>>> limits the number of amplifiers in series.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly.  Imagine taking a CATV feed (or, from a satellite dish
>>>> atop a 400 unit hotel) and distributing that signal to all of the
>>>> units therein.
>>>
>>> I see no problem. The classic analog way was to amplify the signal
>>> and then distribute it through a many-way splitter, which may be
>>> a star or composed of multiple units distributed throughout the
>>> building. You'd never (well, almost never) put amplifiers in series.
>>
>> Each split loses signal.  So, you need to make up for that, "up front"
>> (if you don't include additional distribution amplifiers "mid stream")
>> Note that it's not impractical for there to be thousands of units
>> in a single establishment (e.g., The MGM Grand has almost 7000 units
>> and was opened in the early 90's -- presumably, they have had "in
>> room TV service" since their opening)
>
> A TV tuner needs about -80dBm to function. For 7000 tuners, you'd
> need -41.5dBm (-80 + 10log(7k)). Allow another 13dB or so for
> splitter losses (roughly log2(7k) dB), that's -28.5dBm. Add 20dB for

You see only 1dB per split loss? Not *3*? E.g., a 16 port splitter
already has you down ~12dB -- you're going to do that 7000-way
for 1dB more?

> 100 channels and another 20dB for headroom. We're at +11.5dBm. Add,
> say, another 12dB for distribution cabling losses. Final power
> needed is about +23.5dBm, or a little over 200mW.
>
> Looks like a walk in the park for the amplifier.
>
> Jeroen Belleman
>

On 2022-09-23 01:00, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/22/2022 2:47 PM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>> On 2022-09-22 17:14, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 9/22/2022 7:59 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>> On 2022-09-22 14:53, Don Y wrote:
>>>>> On 9/22/2022 4:36 AM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:18:22 -0700, Don Y
>>>>>> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
>>>>>>> in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
>>>>>>> room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the individual channels like ? Analog ,8VSB digital or DVB-C
>>>>>> digital ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm thinking of "classic" (analog) cable. Digital transport eliminates
>>>>> a lot of problems that, I would assume, would plague "wide" analog
>>>>> distribution.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The combined peak -to-average ratio limits the number of channels
>>>>>> through an amplifier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Especially with analog signals, the added noise in each amplifier
>>>>>> limits the number of amplifiers in series.
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly. Imagine taking a CATV feed (or, from a satellite dish
>>>>> atop a 400 unit hotel) and distributing that signal to all of the
>>>>> units therein.
>>>>
>>>> I see no problem. The classic analog way was to amplify the signal
>>>> and then distribute it through a many-way splitter, which may be
>>>> a star or composed of multiple units distributed throughout the
>>>> building. You'd never (well, almost never) put amplifiers in series.
>>>
>>> Each split loses signal. So, you need to make up for that, "up front"
>>> (if you don't include additional distribution amplifiers "mid stream")
>>> Note that it's not impractical for there to be thousands of units
>>> in a single establishment (e.g., The MGM Grand has almost 7000 units
>>> and was opened in the early 90's -- presumably, they have had "in
>>> room TV service" since their opening)
>>
>> A TV tuner needs about -80dBm to function. For 7000 tuners, you'd
>> need -41.5dBm (-80 + 10log(7k)). Allow another 13dB or so for
>> splitter losses (roughly log2(7k) dB), that's -28.5dBm. Add 20dB for
>
> You see only 1dB per split loss? Not *3*? E.g., a 16 port splitter
> already has you down ~12dB -- you're going to do that 7000-way
> for 1dB more?

The 3dB drop in a two-way splitter is not a loss! Each output gets
half the power, -3dB. There is some real loss too and I generously
budgeted 1dB per binary stage. It's usually less.

A 7k-way splitter would have -38.5 dB input to outputs, plus maybe
13 times 1dB for each stage if it's a binary tree.

Jeroen Bellemanm

On 2022-09-22, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
> On 9/21/2022 11:43 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
>> On 2022-09-21, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>> What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
>>> in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
>>> room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.
>>
>> for a hotel:
>>
>> In the old days they did't they just put n decoders in a back office
>> each decoding a different channnel onto a different output channel and
>> then combined those RF signals, and fed them to the distribution
>> amplifiers.
>
> One would think there would be a turnkey solution as there are
> lots of hotels, lots of apartment houses, multiunit condos, etc.
> I've not been able to find evidence of these.

> Or, "rebroadcasting" downconverted to normal VHF/UHF channels.
> This would add some sort of M-way tuner on the front end,
> a mixer and N-way distribution amp.

That's what I was trying to describe, but it was an M way splitter
M STBs and an M way combiner in a back room, or a closet. the cable
compoany doesn't need to stock expensive hardware that way,

>> These days it's probably all IP over ethernet.
>
> No doubt. Even if the STB *looks* like a cable converter.
>

I distribute broadcast tv over ethernet here, or did - the drive
in that PC failed and I suspect the PSU may be bad too.

--
Jasen.

On 9/23/2022 4:44 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
> On 2022-09-22, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>> On 9/21/2022 11:43 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-21, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>> What are the challenges regarding distribution of CATV signals
>>>> in large, multi-unit sites? E.g., running "Cable" to every
>>>> room in a hotel, apartment complex, dorm, etc.
>>>
>>> for a hotel:
>>>
>>> In the old days they did't they just put n decoders in a back office
>>> each decoding a different channnel onto a different output channel and
>>> then combined those RF signals, and fed them to the distribution
>>> amplifiers.
>>
>> One would think there would be a turnkey solution as there are
>> lots of hotels, lots of apartment houses, multiunit condos, etc.
>> I've not been able to find evidence of these.
>
>> Or, "rebroadcasting" downconverted to normal VHF/UHF channels.
>> This would add some sort of M-way tuner on the front end,
>> a mixer and N-way distribution amp.
>
> That's what I was trying to describe, but it was an M way splitter
> M STBs and an M way combiner in a back room, or a closet. the cable
> compoany doesn't need to stock expensive hardware that way,

But, does the cable company handle the site-specific configuration?
I would have thought that was a separate market that the site owner
bought into to suit their needs.

From what I've heard of folks with CATV service, relying on the cable
company for "prompt support" is laughable.

>>> These days it's probably all IP over ethernet.
>>
>> No doubt. Even if the STB *looks* like a cable converter.
>
> I distribute broadcast tv over ethernet here, or did - the drive
> in that PC failed and I suspect the PSU may be bad too.

I do here, as well. Along with stored video (from a media tank);
I've got a really old, antique radio (piece of rosewood furniture)
from which I've removed the old "tube set" to make room for the
media tank. (SWMBO isn't fond of electronics kit lying around
but a nice antique is a different story, entirely!)

Haven't found a way to put the original controls to use, though
(the tuning "arm", volume control, etc.)

I have several HD HomeRun tuners hidden away to put the content
on the wire and other nodes that can process (commercial detect)
and store it. Conceivably, I could support cable/satellite
sources, as well, but we just don't consume much "live content".

Presently, I use diskless workstations (X Terminals, etc.) as
the presentation end as they've already got the audio and
video hardware in place. It will be a real challenge to design
something cheaper/smaller so I can afford to defer that activity.

Sadly, no one seems to make a similar device for broadcast radio
(AM/FM/FMHD/Xirius) so I've been schooling myself in SDR technology.
Again, hard to imagine acquiring enough know-how to beat a
commercial offering but it can't hurt to understand what the
selection issues would be.