Gravity... makes things fall down.

And gravitational attraction comes from all objects that have
mass - while only some objects are permanent magnets, for
example.

So, just as the Earth has gravity, so do stars. And, as we
know, the Sun is much bigger than the Earth, even if it is
only made of gases instead of solid rock.

Just as the Earth's gravity keeps the Earth's atmosphere from
escaping into space, the Sun's gravity is the reason that the Sun
has a generally spherical shape.

The pressure that a gas exerts increases if the gas is hotter.

A star has a lifetime; the hydrogen that stars are made of can
all fuse to helium, and then that helium can all fuse to carbon.
Carbon can fuse to, to silicon. But once you get to iron, fusion is
no longer a way to gain energy.

So really big stars, when they burn up the gases of which they're
made, changing them into substances that won't produce energy
from fusion, end up cooling off... and when they're cool, their
gravity will cause them to shrink.

Shrinking will take place even when stars change what fuel they
burn; once the hydrogen is used up, the star cools off, but it has
to get hotter to start burning helium - and shrinking due to gravity
will produce heat that will eventually be enough to do this.

But when a star runs out of fuel, shrinking won't ignite a new
fusion process. Instead, one of the possible results is that a star
will become a neutron star - gravity becomes so strong that the
electrostatic forces that keep matter organized into atoms and
molecules are overcome, and the star becomes like one giant
atomic nucleus.

The strong nuclear force, which is what defines the size of an
atomic nucleus, allowing individual protons and neutrons to both
take up space and stay connected to each other in a nucleus,
is only so strong.

If a star is big enough, its gravity can crush the star further, so that
instead of staying a neutron star, gravity overcomes "neutron
degeneracy pressure" - the strong nuclear force is attractive, what
keeps atomic particles apart in the nucleus is really that they're
Fermi-Dirac particles with spin 1/2, and so quantum mechanics
says they can't have the same state in the same space... but give
them more energy, and they can be in higher states.

As a star collapses under its own weight to approach the size of
a proton... it gets to the point where even light itself can't escape the
star. That's what's called a black hole. The interaction between gravity
and light involves relativity theory, particularly the general theory of
relativity.

Gravity curves space, and at the point where a star becomes a black
hole, that curvature is extreme.

This is brief, and got technical in spots, but I hope it helps a little.

John Savard

On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 19:03:59 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>Gravity... makes things fall down.
>
>And gravitational attraction comes from all objects that have
>mass - while only some objects are permanent magnets, for
>example.
>
>So, just as the Earth has gravity, so do stars. And, as we
>know, the Sun is much bigger than the Earth, even if it is
>only made of gases instead of solid rock.
>
>Just as the Earth's gravity keeps the Earth's atmosphere from
>escaping into space, the Sun's gravity is the reason that the Sun
>has a generally spherical shape.
>
>The pressure that a gas exerts increases if the gas is hotter.
>
>A star has a lifetime; the hydrogen that stars are made of can
>all fuse to helium, and then that helium can all fuse to carbon.
>Carbon can fuse to, to silicon. But once you get to iron, fusion is
>no longer a way to gain energy.
>
>So really big stars, when they burn up the gases of which they're
>made, changing them into substances that won't produce energy
>from fusion, end up cooling off... and when they're cool, their
>gravity will cause them to shrink.
>
>Shrinking will take place even when stars change what fuel they
>burn; once the hydrogen is used up, the star cools off, but it has
>to get hotter to start burning helium - and shrinking due to gravity
>will produce heat that will eventually be enough to do this.
>
>But when a star runs out of fuel, shrinking won't ignite a new
>fusion process. Instead, one of the possible results is that a star
>will become a neutron star - gravity becomes so strong that the
>electrostatic forces that keep matter organized into atoms and
>molecules are overcome, and the star becomes like one giant
>atomic nucleus.
>
>The strong nuclear force, which is what defines the size of an
>atomic nucleus, allowing individual protons and neutrons to both
>take up space and stay connected to each other in a nucleus,
>is only so strong.
>
>If a star is big enough, its gravity can crush the star further, so that
>instead of staying a neutron star, gravity overcomes "neutron
>degeneracy pressure" - the strong nuclear force is attractive, what
>keeps atomic particles apart in the nucleus is really that they're
>Fermi-Dirac particles with spin 1/2, and so quantum mechanics
>says they can't have the same state in the same space... but give
>them more energy, and they can be in higher states.
>
>As a star collapses under its own weight to approach the size of
>a proton... it gets to the point where even light itself can't escape the
>star. That's what's called a black hole. The interaction between gravity
>and light involves relativity theory, particularly the general theory of
>relativity.
>
>Gravity curves space, and at the point where a star becomes a black
>hole, that curvature is extreme.
>
>This is brief, and got technical in spots, but I hope it helps a little.
>
>John Savard

I'd add for clarification, what we call a "black hole" isn't
specifically the collapsed star itself (which our physics cannot yet
fully describe), but rather, it and the region around it, out to the
radius where light cannot escape (the event horizon), which our
physics can largely deal with.

This thread was built on from a discussion 16 years ago in order to demonstrate that there is nothing new to counter the view that certain supernova stars represent the emergence of a solar system rather than the demise of a star.

https://esawebb.org/images/SN1987a-1/

Many of the features of our solar system such as the Kuiper belt or Oort cloud retain signatures of a process that created the heavier elements and even why water forms in specific areas of a solar system-

https://esawebb.org/news/weic2318/

Far too exciting as a prospect than contending with those with notions that are meaningless in the face of the new telescope and what it can do.

On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 08:19:33 -0700 (PDT), Gerald Kelleher
<kelleher.gerald@gmail.com> wrote:

>This thread was built on from a discussion 16 years ago in order to demonstrate that there is nothing new to counter the view that certain supernova stars represent the emergence of a solar system rather than the demise of a star.

Because there was nothing old to support that view. It is loony toons
at its finest..

Events happen in a specific way through an investigative process where a large number of topics come together to create a narrative which is satisfying. In this case, back in 1990 when I sought to resolve a perspective where geometry tends towards a definite condition in a creative and productive way, the value of 432° could be represented in 360° geometry.

https://www.projectrhea.org/rhea/images/e/e3/Rhombic.jpg

https://imgur.com/gallery/UV2tvOJ

The balance between pentagonal and hexagonal geometry is not quite the same thing as a soccer ball which uses a combination of both-

https://media.geeksforgeeks.org/wp-content/uploads/football-157930_960_720.png

The balance here is a geometric form with both pentagonal and hexagonal features, hence the reference to Chi Rho and its cyclical accompanying signatures of alpha and omega.

https://www.mondocattolico.com/blogs/news/origin-and-meaning-of-the-christian-symbol-of-chi-rho

Of course, this language is beyond anyone here, at least for the moment, however, it contains a gorgeous dynamic and a mixture of geometry, art, perceptive faculties, poetry and a genuine feel for creation. The mathematical mind can't keep up and must retreat to sullen silence yet this is the price of unbridled empirical speculation without physical considerations.

I could always say that I worked on the structure of stellar evolution four years before imaging emerged supporting that evolutionary dynamic and the reasons for it but that would put me at the centre of the work rather than incidental to its existence other than being a Christian.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasawebbtelescope/53154921769/in/album-72177720305127361/

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 3:29:21 AM UTC-6, Gerald Kelleher wrote:

> The balance between pentagonal and hexagonal geometry is not quite the same thing as a soccer ball which uses a combination of both-
>
> https://media.geeksforgeeks.org/wp-content/uploads/football-157930_960_720.png

Of course, the reason that a soccer ball is possible is that the (pentagonal) dodecahedron
is the dual of the icosahedron.

Hence, the truncated icosahedron leaves pentagons at the icosahedron's vertices when
they're trimmed to turn the triangles into hexagons.

John Savard

https://www.projectrhea.org/rhea/images/e/e3/Rhombic.jpg

Demonstrating what the four angles of non-periodic tiling mean relative to 432° is like showing the four chemicals of DNA to people stuck in the late 17th century and who rejected geometry a long time ago by trying to combine it with timekeeping or misusing the latter.

https://imgur.com/gallery/UV2tvOJ

The hexagonal form of 288° minus 108° or 324° minus 144° links in with Chi Rho and, would have represented a sublime form for those in antiquity as it does for me today.

Inspiration can never be suffocated especially inspiration found in geometry and the flux of objects in cyclical motions or in evolutionary sciences.

Even when I present the birth of a solar system from a supernova event as a hypothesis, it makes sense in terms of physical considerations of galactic structure so the sullen and dull can remain that way as they have for the last three decades in all aspects of research, they are being bypassed anyway.