On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 1:00:58 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> On 9/27/2022 9:33 AM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 12:13:47 AM UTC+10, TTman wrote:
> >>>> A most remarkable product!
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.futureshop.co.uk/hifi-tuning-uk-supreme-3-mains-fuse-13a
> >>>>
> >>>> :-D
> >>> Wow! 12 month warranty. If it blows, do they replace it for free?
> >>>
> >>> I'd love to see someone do an AB comparison test! LOL
> >>>
> >> This fuse is much better value for money...
> >>
> >> https://www.futureshop.co.uk/quantum-science-audio-yellow-high-end-uk13a-fuse
> >>
> >> And their mains cables are to die for...A snip at £1500
> >>
> >> https://www.futureshop.co.uk/audioquest-hurricane-high-current-mains-power-cable
> >>
> >> Who on earth buys this stuff, believing it makes a difference ?
> > Gullible twits. The same sort of people who think that Donald Trump did a great job when he was president of the United States,
> Some of us liked the low inflation ,increased incomes, low
> unemployment, 7 million people off of food stamps, reduced inflow of
> illegal aliens, good stock market growth, and a quick Covid vaccine.
>
> Just because you disagree with his stand an climate change and abortion, and probably illegal immigration doesn't negate the good that he did.
> Doesn't matter how many times you say it or how you denigrate the people that agree with his policies.
> Mikek

Sorry, I may have missed something. What good is that, exactly?

I can assure you, any good Donald Trmp did for others, is purely incidental..

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 9/27/2022 12:48 PM, Ricky wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 1:00:58 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>> On 9/27/2022 9:33 AM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 12:13:47 AM UTC+10, TTman wrote:
>>>>>> A most remarkable product!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.futureshop.co.uk/hifi-tuning-uk-supreme-3-mains-fuse-13a
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :-D
>>>>> Wow! 12 month warranty. If it blows, do they replace it for free?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd love to see someone do an AB comparison test! LOL
>>>>>
>>>> This fuse is much better value for money...
>>>>
>>>> https://www.futureshop.co.uk/quantum-science-audio-yellow-high-end-uk13a-fuse
>>>>
>>>> And their mains cables are to die for...A snip at £1500
>>>>
>>>> https://www.futureshop.co.uk/audioquest-hurricane-high-current-mains-power-cable
>>>>
>>>> Who on earth buys this stuff, believing it makes a difference ?
>>> Gullible twits. The same sort of people who think that Donald Trump did a great job when he was president of the United States,
>> Some of us liked the low inflation, increased incomes, low
>> unemployment, 7 million people off of food stamps, reduced inflow of
>> illegal aliens, good stock market growth, and a quick Covid vaccine.
>>
>> Just because you disagree with his stand an climate change and abortion, and probably illegal immigration doesn't negate the good that he did.
>> Doesn't matter how many times you say it or how you denigrate the people that agree with his policies.
>> Mikek
> Sorry, I may have missed something. What good is that, exactly?
>
> I can assure you, any good Donald Trmp did for others, is purely incidental.
>
How can you assure that?
Or is this just more Trump derangement syndrome?

On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 12:38:16 PM UTC, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> "Based in Berlin, Germany, HiFi TUNiNG has spent an incredible amount
> of time and money to ensure you can get 100% out of your system. A
> strong belief in 'The chain is only as strong as its weakest link'
> pushes HiFi TUNiNG to ensure that no stone is left unturned when
> improving every component within Hi-Fi systems. This leads to offering
> a series of products aimed at improving components commonly forgotten,
> for an affordable price."
>
> A most remarkable product!
>
> https://www.futureshop.co.uk/hifi-tuning-uk-supreme-3-mains-fuse-13a
>
> :-D

wow. Gold plated contacts, black ceramic body -
that is the prettiest fuse I've ever seen.
must be meant for "glass windowed" power supplies ;-)
(those show piece amplifiers you see at high shows)

> "Please note: fuses are directional, so please ensure you install your
> fuse accordingly. If you are not sure on the correct direction, simply
> try it both ways- you will be able to hear the difference."
>
> So make sure you fit it the correct way round!
> ;-)

FINALLY the dark secrets of electronics are leaked!
I have been installing all my parts in random ways.
I never knew, resistors, capacitors, fuses, ..wow.
No wonder then they all sounded terrible.
Those poor little critters must have been tortured
so forced to conduct electricity the wrong way.

Rich S wrote:
>
>> "Please note: fuses are directional, so please ensure you install your
>> fuse accordingly. If you are not sure on the correct direction, simply
>> try it both ways- you will be able to hear the difference."
>>
>> So make sure you fit it the correct way round!
>> ;-)
>
> FINALLY the dark secrets of electronics are leaked!
> I have been installing all my parts in random ways.
> I never knew, resistors, capacitors, fuses, ..wow.
> No wonder then they all sounded terrible.
> Those poor little critters must have been tortured
> so forced to conduct electricity the wrong way.
>

It woz t'diodes wot did it. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

On September 26, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> "Based in Berlin, Germany, HiFi TUNiNG has spent an incredible amount
> of time and money to ensure you can get 100% out of your system. A
> strong belief in 'The chain is only as strong as its weakest link'
> pushes HiFi TUNiNG to ensure that no stone is left unturned when
> improving every component within Hi-Fi systems."
> https://www.futureshop.co.uk/hifi-tuning-uk-supreme-3-mains-fuse-13a

Well, at least they got the ensure/insure usage right -

However, I'm skeptical of the amount of money they spent,
since they claim it was "incredible".

Anyway, is there any audio beef in the propaganda regarding
Monster cable, with their near zero resistance and inductance?

--
Rich

On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 7:34:25 PM UTC, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Rich S wrote:
> >
> >> "Please note: fuses are directional, so please ensure you install your
> >> fuse accordingly. If you are not sure on the correct direction, simply
> >> try it both ways- you will be able to hear the difference."
> >>
> >> So make sure you fit it the correct way round!
> >> ;-)
> >
> > FINALLY the dark secrets of electronics are leaked!
> > I have been installing all my parts in random ways.
> > I never knew, resistors, capacitors, fuses, ..wow.
> > No wonder then they all sounded terrible.
> > Those poor little critters must have been tortured
> > so forced to conduct electricity the wrong way.
> >
> It woz t'diodes wot did it. ;)
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs
>
> --
> Dr Philip C D Hobbs
> Principal Consultant
> ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
> Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
> Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
>
> http://electrooptical.net
> http://hobbs-eo.com

was the bands of cathodes that led young boys astray ;-)

amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote in news:tgva81$3rek$1@dont-email.me:

>
> Just because you disagree with his stand an climate change and
> abortion, and probably illegal immigration doesn't negate the good
> that he did. Doesn't matter how many times you say it or how you
> denigrate the people that agree with his policies.

He did no good job whatsoever. You should post a list of what you
think the dopey dipshit did for the nation.

His pandemic response was NIL, and even deliberately downplayed.
That led to hundreds of thousands of deaths that would not have
happened had he not sat on his thumbs and done nothing. That alone
is negligent homicide.

His advised against "trade war" with china caused many tens of
farms to go under to the point a bill had to get passed that cost us
$28 billion to rescue SOME of them, and leave in the dust others.

His "wall" stupididty was NOT a wall, but it was a fence and that
was the SAME fence that was already being built and it did NOT cost
billions of dollars. It was an embezzlement of the US Treasury.

The motherfucker could not have been more stupid if he tried.

And on the very day he found out that his opponent was Biden, is
the day he stopped a plane load of military assistance that was ON
THE TARMAC ready to go, and tried to get the President of Ukraine to
"announce that he had started an investigation into Biden". He had
not, but Trump only wanted the announcement as a political ploy.
THAT is waht got the 100% CRIMINAL motherfucker to get impeached.
And THAT cost the lives of no less than 13 Ukraine soldiers.
Tantamount to murder on Trump's part. DIRECTLY TRUMP'S FAULT.

The ONLY thing more stupid than Donald John Trump is a Trump
supporter. You FAILED to vet a PROVEN lifelong criminal and believed
his pathetic lies and re-spout his petty insults.

The only way you could still turn a blind eye to the damage the
retarded bat's turd did to our nation is if you still haven't wiprd
the TrumpShitSmear off your face and eyes from spending the last
seven years with your head stuffed a mile up his fat skanky ass.

Wipe that TrumpShitSmear horse blinder off your face and eyes and
wake the fuck up. AND you stink.

amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote in news:tgvgcm$4cjm$1@dont-email.me:

> How can you assure that?
> Or is this just more Trump derangement syndrome?

That is a word that TRUMP made up, but if it applies to anyone at
all, it is Trump's RETARDED BLIND cult, of which you are obvioulsy a
member.

Great job too, of NOT answering the question.

So, give us a list, boy.

Rich S <richsulinengineer@gmail.com> wrote in news:1d49e4b2-cb87-4a7b-
9dca-c531c8cbed81n@googlegroups.com:

> wow. Gold plated contacts, black ceramic body -
> that is the prettiest fuse I've ever seen.
> must be meant for "glass windowed" power supplies ;-)
> (those show piece amplifiers you see at high shows)
>
Probably only a microinch of Gold (i forgot... metric)
2.54 -5 mm

Probably scrapes off on insertion.

Rich S <richsulinengineer@gmail.com> wrote in
news:e2ff09dc-7866-4f25-8295-ff40f10166den@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 7:34:25 PM UTC, Phil Hobbs
> wrote:
>> Rich S wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Please note: fuses are directional, so please ensure you
>> >> install your fuse accordingly. If you are not sure on the
>> >> correct direction, simply try it both ways- you will be able
>> >> to hear the difference."
>> >>
>> >> So make sure you fit it the correct way round!
>> >> ;-)
>> >
>> > FINALLY the dark secrets of electronics are leaked!
>> > I have been installing all my parts in random ways.
>> > I never knew, resistors, capacitors, fuses, ..wow.
>> > No wonder then they all sounded terrible.
>> > Those poor little critters must have been tortured
>> > so forced to conduct electricity the wrong way.
>> >
>> It woz t'diodes wot did it. ;)
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>>
>> --
>> Dr Philip C D Hobbs
>> Principal Consultant
>> ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
>> Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
>> Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
>>
>> http://electrooptical.net
>> http://hobbs-eo.com
>
> was the bands of cathodes that led young boys astray ;-)
>

They could only ever play half the music.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 17:04:23 -0700 (PDT), Rich S
<richsulinengineer@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 7:34:25 PM UTC, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> Rich S wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Please note: fuses are directional, so please ensure you install your
>> >> fuse accordingly. If you are not sure on the correct direction, simply
>> >> try it both ways- you will be able to hear the difference."
>> >>
>> >> So make sure you fit it the correct way round!
>> >> ;-)
>> >
>> > FINALLY the dark secrets of electronics are leaked!
>> > I have been installing all my parts in random ways.
>> > I never knew, resistors, capacitors, fuses, ..wow.
>> > No wonder then they all sounded terrible.
>> > Those poor little critters must have been tortured
>> > so forced to conduct electricity the wrong way.
>> >
>> It woz t'diodes wot did it. ;)
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>>
>> --
>> Dr Philip C D Hobbs
>> Principal Consultant
>> ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
>> Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
>> Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
>>
>> http://electrooptical.net
>> http://hobbs-eo.com
>
>was the bands of cathodes that led young boys astray ;-)

Diode: band marks the cathode

Bridge rectifier: + marks the pos output

Tantalum cap: mark the positive

Aluminum cap: mark the negative

Film cap: mark the outside foil, if any

LED: do something random

IC pin 1: optional

DVM: red is ohms +, except in Japan.

Military: current flows backwards

LT Spice: current flows right to left

DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote in
news:th0m2f$1qq2$1@gioia.aioe.org:

> amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote in news:tgva81$3rek$1@dont-email.me:
>
>>
>> Just because you disagree with his stand an climate change and
>> abortion, and probably illegal immigration doesn't negate the
>> good that he did. Doesn't matter how many times you say it or how
>> you denigrate the people that agree with his policies.
>
> He did no good job whatsoever. You should post a list of what
> you
> think the dopey dipshit did for the nation.
>
> His pandemic response was NIL, and even deliberately downplayed.
> That led to hundreds of thousands of deaths that would not have
> happened had he not sat on his thumbs and done nothing. That
> alone is negligent homicide.
>
> His advised against "trade war" with china caused many tens of
> farms to go under to the point a bill had to get passed that cost
> us $28 billion to rescue SOME of them, and leave in the dust
> others.
>
> His "wall" stupididty was NOT a wall, but it was a fence and
> that
> was the SAME fence that was already being built and it did NOT
> cost billions of dollars. It was an embezzlement of the US
> Treasury.
>
> The motherfucker could not have been more stupid if he tried.
>
> And on the very day he found out that his opponent was Biden, is
> the day he stopped a plane load of military assistance that was ON
> THE TARMAC ready to go, and tried to get the President of Ukraine
> to "announce that he had started an investigation into Biden". He
> had not, but Trump only wanted the announcement as a political
> ploy. THAT is waht got the 100% CRIMINAL motherfucker to get
> impeached. And THAT cost the lives of no less than 13 Ukraine
> soldiers. Tantamount to murder on Trump's part. DIRECTLY TRUMP'S
> FAULT.
>
> The ONLY thing more stupid than Donald John Trump is a Trump
> supporter. You FAILED to vet a PROVEN lifelong criminal and
> believed his pathetic lies and re-spout his petty insults.
>
> The only way you could still turn a blind eye to the damage the
> retarded bat's turd did to our nation is if you still haven't
> wiprd the TrumpShitSmear off your face and eyes from spending the
> last seven years with your head stuffed a mile up his fat skanky
> ass.
>
> Wipe that TrumpShitSmear horse blinder off your face and eyes
> and
> wake the fuck up. AND you stink.
>

Yep... It figures that a TrumpDope makes a bullshit post then
ignores the responses and calls to cite examples of his claim.

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:12:34 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 11:51:50 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 13:14:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>> <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On a sunny day (Mon, 26 Sep 2022 13:38:06 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>> ><c...@notformail.com> wrote in <i373jh9uc971pjqoq...@4ax.com>:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>"Based in Berlin, Germany, HiFi TUNiNG has spent an incredible amount
>> >>of time and money to ensure you can get 100% out of your system. A
>> >>strong belief in 'The chain is only as strong as its weakest link'
>> >>pushes HiFi TUNiNG to ensure that no stone is left unturned when
>> >>improving every component within Hi-Fi systems. This leads to offering
>> >>a series of products aimed at improving components commonly forgotten,
>> >>for an affordable price."
>> >>
>> >>A most remarkable product!
>> >>
>> >>https://www.futureshop.co.uk/hifi-tuning-uk-supreme-3-mains-fuse-13a

They did not even give the i^2R rating for that fuse.

"High end" amplifiers tend to have oversized capacitors in the power
supply to keep the DC supply voltage stable for problematic signals
and/or problematic speakers. This means that the capacitor voltage is
close to the peak voltage of the rectified transformer voltage.

Thus the rectifiers conduct only close to the mains peak voltage.
However, the total load power must be delivered during this short
conduction angle, thus the peak current must be many times larger than
the load to a resistive load. Thus the fuse i^2R heating is also much
greater, increasing the risk for blowing the fuse. Thus the i^2R
rating should be greater than the i^2R ratings for an ordinary fuse
with some nominal current value. this very high peak current (often
tens of amps) will cause extra power losses in house wirings as well
as extra voltage losses, so the voltage delivered to the amplifier
looks more like a flat top sine wave i,e, lots of harmonics.

In many countries the peak most be widened with some PFC usually
consisting of some boost switcher. ' HE' people usually do not like
switchers in power supplies or audio amplifiers, so wonder how they
are going to sell their equipment into countries with power factor
regulations :--)

>> >
>> >In 'merrica it was a plot to sell cocaine
>> >expensive audio crap shops were part of that.
>> >
>> >No real audio guy would fall for this one, but the tube can hold just that much.
>> >So, :-)
>> Here's another innovative product in a similar vein...
>>
>> https://www.futureshop.co.uk/quantum-science-audio-yellow-slow-blow
>>
>> "Please note: fuses are directional, so please ensure you install your
>> fuse accordingly. If you are not sure on the correct direction, simply
>> try it both ways- you will be able to hear the difference."
>>
>> So make sure you fit it the correct way round!
>> ;-)
>
>I wonder if they get their power from the Quantum Science generating station with the proper orientation of all equipment involved. Does the grid identify the polarity of their transformers? What if the three phase is rotating in the other direction? Oh, the humanity!

Do they sell three phase power supplies ? These would be quite ideal
for feeding 'HE' amplifiers, not much need for storage capacitors even
for feeding problematic loads. The mains conduction angles are greater
and hence peak currents smaller even with just a 6 pulse rectifier.
With a 12 pulse rectifier (requiring extra addition mains transformer
secondary windings for both wye and delta connection), this will clean
up the current drawn and no extra circuits are needed to mains power
factor requirements in most counties.

Some may complain that they currently have single phase mains feed,
but in most places a three phase feed is available with a reasonable
amount of money, compared to the sums someone spend for audio
interconnection cables :-).

On a sunny day (Mon, 03 Oct 2022 16:40:09 +0300) it happened
upsidedown@downunder.com wrote in
<8llljhhpn2vjq3jtsffsg81skae2t5v3us@4ax.com>:

>On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:12:34 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
><gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"High end" amplifiers tend to have oversized capacitors in the power
>supply to keep the DC supply voltage stable for problematic signals
>and/or problematic speakers. This means that the capacitor voltage is
>close to the peak voltage of the rectified transformer voltage.
>
>Thus the rectifiers conduct only close to the mains peak voltage.
>However, the total load power must be delivered during this short
>conduction angle, thus the peak current must be many times larger than
>the load to a resistive load. Thus the fuse i^2R heating is also much
>greater, increasing the risk for blowing the fuse. Thus the i^2R
>rating should be greater than the i^2R ratings for an ordinary fuse
>with some nominal current value. this very high peak current (often
>tens of amps) will cause extra power losses in house wirings as well
>as extra voltage losses, so the voltage delivered to the amplifier
>looks more like a flat top sine wave i,e, lots of harmonics.
>
>In many countries the peak most be widened with some PFC usually
>consisting of some boost switcher. ' HE' people usually do not like
>switchers in power supplies or audio amplifiers, so wonder how they
>are going to sell their equipment into countries with power factor
>regulations :--)

You can use a big inductor after the mains bridge rectifier and before the filter cap.
Some audio guys like big transformers anyways.

And usually music peaks only ever so often, no continuously max current.

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 11:14:09 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Mon, 03 Oct 2022 16:40:09 +0300) it happened
> upsid...@downunder.com wrote in
> <8llljhhpn2vjq3jts...@4ax.com>:
> >On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:12:34 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
> ><gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >"High end" amplifiers tend to have oversized capacitors in the power
> >supply to keep the DC supply voltage stable for problematic signals
> >and/or problematic speakers. This means that the capacitor voltage is
> >close to the peak voltage of the rectified transformer voltage.
> >
> >Thus the rectifiers conduct only close to the mains peak voltage.
> >However, the total load power must be delivered during this short
> >conduction angle, thus the peak current must be many times larger than
> >the load to a resistive load. Thus the fuse i^2R heating is also much
> >greater, increasing the risk for blowing the fuse. Thus the i^2R
> >rating should be greater than the i^2R ratings for an ordinary fuse
> >with some nominal current value. this very high peak current (often
> >tens of amps) will cause extra power losses in house wirings as well
> >as extra voltage losses, so the voltage delivered to the amplifier
> >looks more like a flat top sine wave i,e, lots of harmonics.
> >
> >In many countries the peak most be widened with some PFC usually
> >consisting of some boost switcher. ' HE' people usually do not like
> >switchers in power supplies or audio amplifiers, so wonder how they
> >are going to sell their equipment into countries with power factor
> >regulations :--)
> You can use a big inductor after the mains bridge rectifier and before the filter cap.
> Some audio guys like big transformers anyways.
>
> And usually music peaks only ever so often, no continuously max current.

That doesn't actually impact the power factor issue. The power factor is mucked by the large capacitance relative to the load. So the lower power draws are when the power factor is most blorged.

The inductor would definitely help, but it would need to be large, just like the capacitors are large.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On a sunny day (Mon, 3 Oct 2022 08:26:37 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
<5e9699de-ba98-4e07-b70a-2e3c47dfec78n@googlegroups.com>:

>On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 11:14:09 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Mon, 03 Oct 2022 16:40:09 +0300) it happened

>> You can use a big inductor after the mains bridge rectifier and before the filter cap.
>> Some audio guys like big transformers anyways.
>>
>> And usually music peaks only ever so often, no continuously max current.
>
>That doesn't actually impact the power factor issue. The power factor is mucked by the large capacitance relative to the load.
>So the lower power draws are when the power factor is most blorged.

Indeed

>The inductor would definitely help, but it would need to be large, just like the capacitors are large.

Yes.

As to HE audio, I remember in the early sixties going to a church where some group was playing classical music
they had Quad electrostats, I was blown out by the quality of sound..
Later in the TV studios we had 2 Quad elecrostats in each sound control room.. (6 studios back then in that complex).

Sometimes I wonder if I should not get some, quite expensive these days,
But many times better than piezo tweeters etc for the highs, very transparent sound.

On Mon, 03 Oct 2022 15:12:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Mon, 03 Oct 2022 16:40:09 +0300) it happened
>upsidedown@downunder.com wrote in
><8llljhhpn2vjq3jtsffsg81skae2t5v3us@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:12:34 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
>><gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"High end" amplifiers tend to have oversized capacitors in the power
>>supply to keep the DC supply voltage stable for problematic signals
>>and/or problematic speakers. This means that the capacitor voltage is
>>close to the peak voltage of the rectified transformer voltage.
>>
>>Thus the rectifiers conduct only close to the mains peak voltage.
>>However, the total load power must be delivered during this short
>>conduction angle, thus the peak current must be many times larger than
>>the load to a resistive load. Thus the fuse i^2R heating is also much
>>greater, increasing the risk for blowing the fuse. Thus the i^2R
>>rating should be greater than the i^2R ratings for an ordinary fuse
>>with some nominal current value. this very high peak current (often
>>tens of amps) will cause extra power losses in house wirings as well
>>as extra voltage losses, so the voltage delivered to the amplifier
>>looks more like a flat top sine wave i,e, lots of harmonics.
>>
>>In many countries the peak most be widened with some PFC usually
>>consisting of some boost switcher. ' HE' people usually do not like
>>switchers in power supplies or audio amplifiers, so wonder how they
>>are going to sell their equipment into countries with power factor
>>regulations :--)
>
>You can use a big inductor after the mains bridge rectifier and before the filter cap.
>Some audio guys like big transformers anyways.

In the tube rectifier era, the pi-configuration (CLC) was common to
limit the rectifier current peaks. In many cases the main choke was
physically nearly as big as the output transformer.

>And usually music peaks only ever so often, no continuously max current.

Think about reproducing a low note (<30 Hz) from a big pipe organ,
requires multiple mains cycles to drive a full organ cycle.

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 3:08:21 PM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Oct 2022 15:12:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje
> <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On a sunny day (Mon, 03 Oct 2022 16:40:09 +0300) it happened
> >upsid...@downunder.com wrote in
> ><8llljhhpn2vjq3jts...@4ax.com>:
> >
> >>On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:12:34 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
> >><gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>"High end" amplifiers tend to have oversized capacitors in the power
> >>supply to keep the DC supply voltage stable for problematic signals
> >>and/or problematic speakers. This means that the capacitor voltage is
> >>close to the peak voltage of the rectified transformer voltage.
> >>
> >>Thus the rectifiers conduct only close to the mains peak voltage.
> >>However, the total load power must be delivered during this short
> >>conduction angle, thus the peak current must be many times larger than
> >>the load to a resistive load. Thus the fuse i^2R heating is also much
> >>greater, increasing the risk for blowing the fuse. Thus the i^2R
> >>rating should be greater than the i^2R ratings for an ordinary fuse
> >>with some nominal current value. this very high peak current (often
> >>tens of amps) will cause extra power losses in house wirings as well
> >>as extra voltage losses, so the voltage delivered to the amplifier
> >>looks more like a flat top sine wave i,e, lots of harmonics.
> >>
> >>In many countries the peak most be widened with some PFC usually
> >>consisting of some boost switcher. ' HE' people usually do not like
> >>switchers in power supplies or audio amplifiers, so wonder how they
> >>are going to sell their equipment into countries with power factor
> >>regulations :--)
> >
> >You can use a big inductor after the mains bridge rectifier and before the filter cap.
> >Some audio guys like big transformers anyways.
> In the tube rectifier era, the pi-configuration (CLC) was common to
> limit the rectifier current peaks. In many cases the main choke was
> physically nearly as big as the output transformer.

I think you misunderstand. In the tube era, the power filter was important to reduce the ripple feeding the circuits because they seldom used voltage regulators. Tube rectifiers were seldom other than half wave to boot!

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Monday, 3 October 2022 at 13:37:37 UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
> On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 3:08:21 PM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
....
> > In the tube rectifier era, the pi-configuration (CLC) was common to
> > limit the rectifier current peaks. In many cases the main choke was
> > physically nearly as big as the output transformer.
> I think you misunderstand. In the tube era, the power filter was important to reduce the ripple feeding the circuits because they seldom used voltage regulators. Tube rectifiers were seldom other than half wave to boot!

The most common arrangement used a dual anode rectifier fed from a centre-tapped secondary of the mains transformer. So it was effectively full-wave.

TVs and radios that were powered directly from the power line without a transformer invariably used half-wave rectification.

kw

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
> On Monday, 3 October 2022 at 13:37:37 UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
> > On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 3:08:21 PM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
> ...
> > > In the tube rectifier era, the pi-configuration (CLC) was common to
> > > limit the rectifier current peaks. In many cases the main choke was
> > > physically nearly as big as the output transformer.
> > I think you misunderstand. In the tube era, the power filter was important to reduce the ripple feeding the circuits because they seldom used voltage regulators. Tube rectifiers were seldom other than half wave to boot!
> The most common arrangement used a dual anode rectifier fed from a centre-tapped secondary of the mains transformer. So it was effectively full-wave..
>
> TVs and radios that were powered directly from the power line without a transformer invariably used half-wave rectification.

The rectifier tubes I saw had a plate cap, so no double plates. I only messed with tubes for a very few years before transistors took over.

I remember having a small TV, maybe 12 inches, that only had maybe five tubes in it. They had started making tubes with multiple sections in them, effectively two triodes or a triode and a pentode or maybe even three functions. I think they were designed for the specific circuit they were used in, which means they must have made a lot of TVs with this same design... until they made no more at all because it became all transistors.

--

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
==========================
>
> "High end" amplifiers tend to have oversized capacitors in the power
> supply to keep the DC supply voltage stable for problematic signals
> and/or problematic speakers.

** Pure marketing bullshit.

> This means that the capacitor voltage is
> close to the peak voltage of the rectified transformer voltage.
** I always is, extra C just reduces the DC ripple voltage to minute values.

> Thus the rectifiers conduct only close to the mains peak voltage.

** Always the case.

> However, the total load power must be delivered during this short
> conduction angle,

** Extra C dos not change the conduction time or rms current.
The same amount of energy needs to be replaced per cycle as before.

> thus the peak current must be many times larger than
> the load to a resistive load.

** Always the case, but is not proportional to C value.

>Thus the fuse i^2R heating is also much
> greater, increasing the risk for blowing the fuse.

** Absolute bullshit.

> be greater than the i^2R ratings for an ordinary fuse
> with some nominal current value. this very high peak current (often
> tens of amps) will cause extra power losses in house wirings as well
> as extra voltage losses, so the voltage delivered to the amplifier
> looks more like a flat top sine wave i,e, lots of harmonics.

** This fool has just cited one of the dumbest myths in audio.
Not a single word is actually true.

What extra C in the PSU DOES do is magnify the inrush surge current at switch on.
Large amplifiers typically have a " soft start " system in the AC supply feed to counter the issue.

Rest of this fool's absurd crap deleted.

.......... Phil

On a sunny day (Mon, 03 Oct 2022 22:08:11 +0300) it happened
upsidedown@downunder.com wrote in
<l4cmjhpvdomp6la989kkq2qk4ip4hf77v9@4ax.com>:

>On Mon, 03 Oct 2022 15:12:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Mon, 03 Oct 2022 16:40:09 +0300) it happened
>>upsidedown@downunder.com wrote in
>><8llljhhpn2vjq3jtsffsg81skae2t5v3us@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:12:34 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
>>><gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"High end" amplifiers tend to have oversized capacitors in the power
>>>supply to keep the DC supply voltage stable for problematic signals
>>>and/or problematic speakers. This means that the capacitor voltage is
>>>close to the peak voltage of the rectified transformer voltage.
>>>
>>>Thus the rectifiers conduct only close to the mains peak voltage.
>>>However, the total load power must be delivered during this short
>>>conduction angle, thus the peak current must be many times larger than
>>>the load to a resistive load. Thus the fuse i^2R heating is also much
>>>greater, increasing the risk for blowing the fuse. Thus the i^2R
>>>rating should be greater than the i^2R ratings for an ordinary fuse
>>>with some nominal current value. this very high peak current (often
>>>tens of amps) will cause extra power losses in house wirings as well
>>>as extra voltage losses, so the voltage delivered to the amplifier
>>>looks more like a flat top sine wave i,e, lots of harmonics.
>>>
>>>In many countries the peak most be widened with some PFC usually
>>>consisting of some boost switcher. ' HE' people usually do not like
>>>switchers in power supplies or audio amplifiers, so wonder how they
>>>are going to sell their equipment into countries with power factor
>>>regulations :--)
>>
>>You can use a big inductor after the mains bridge rectifier and before the filter cap.
>>Some audio guys like big transformers anyways.
>
>In the tube rectifier era, the pi-configuration (CLC) was common to
>limit the rectifier current peaks. In many cases the main choke was
>physically nearly as big as the output transformer.
>
>
>>And usually music peaks only ever so often, no continuously max current.
>
>Think about reproducing a low note (<30 Hz) from a big pipe organ,
>requires multiple mains cycles to drive a full organ cycle.

A few mains cycles will not do much harm to home mains wiring...
If the music was recorded and played right that organ note would be below 100% to allow dynamics.
Else amps would simply clip..

I mean, designed and build so many audio amps...
that started in the early sixties at high school for the school band
tubes and transformers! The guitar player liked the sound so much he wanted me to design more stuff..
Then later transistor amps...

On a sunny day (Mon, 3 Oct 2022 15:11:12 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
<c67cf3ca-7e70-4d56-9121-9e5e8757e60cn@googlegroups.com>:

>On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
>> On Monday, 3 October 2022 at 13:37:37 UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
>> > On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 3:08:21 PM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
>>
>...
>> > > In the tube rectifier era, the pi-configuration (CLC) was common to
>>
>> > limit the rectifier current peaks. In many cases the main choke was
>>
>> > physically nearly as big as the output transformer.
>> > I think you misunderstand. In the tube era, the power filter was important
>to reduce the ripple feeding the circuits because they seldom used voltage
>regulators. Tube rectifiers were seldom other than half wave to boot!
>> The most common arrangement used a dual anode rectifier fed from a centre-tapped
>secondary of the mains transformer. So it was effectively full-wave.
>>
>>
>TVs and radios that were powered directly from the power line without a transformer
>invariably used half-wave rectification.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_TV8-301
>The rectifier tubes I saw had a plate cap, so no double plates. I only messed
>with tubes for a very few years before transistors took over.
>
>I remember having a small TV, maybe 12 inches, that only had maybe five tubes
>in it. They had started making tubes with multiple sections in them, effectively
>two triodes or a triode and a pentode or maybe even three functions.
> I think they were designed for the specific circuit they were used in,
>which means they must have made a lot of TVs with this same design... until
>they made no more at all because it became all transistors.

The first all transistor TV was the Sony portable:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_TV8-301
1960
Very clever!
But many years after that big tube based color sets were still being produced
Philips K8 for example:
http://www.earlytelevision.org/Etzold/goya_110l_k8d-e.html

I designed and build both tube and transistor TVs.
Even added color to a Phips LDR1000 video tape recorder as a home project, just for fun.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philips_video_recorder_ldl_1000_00.html
and did a demo at work in the studio....
That was weeks after the Umatic was secretly demonstrated by Sony at the studio for the techies.
VHS took over the world market after that.
I still have one, and tapes...

On a sunny day (Mon, 3 Oct 2022 16:07:43 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
<51a9313c-1ad2-4dff-a9ff-09370c992b3an@googlegroups.com>:

> What extra C in the PSU DOES do is magnify the inrush surge current at switch on.
> Large amplifiers typically have a " soft start " system in the AC supply feed to counter the issue.

The old Philips color sets had a big NTC resistor in series with the mains to reduce peak power on current.
All tubes were in series on the mains too, 300 mA heaters..