https://www.cnsnews.com/article/national/susan-jones/buttigieg-electric-vehicles-could-be-very-useful-during-power-outage

Of course, EVs don't "generate" anything, they are just a big battery. At best, they can be called a "reserve power source." Of course, once you have drained the EV's battery it won't MOVE. Using it as a power source means it must be connected to the charger which is usually in the garage, the same place that Florida officials said NOT to leave your EV. And the charger MUST be designed for bi-directional use and ONLY Ford has announced such a charger (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a39493654/can-your-ev-power-your-house/). So most EVs will be useless for this purpose, anyway.

Assuming you own a Ford Lightning AND have a bi-directional charger (which costs FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS), how long can you use the EV as a power source, anyhow? My all-electric home is currently drawing 4KW without the AC or heat pump running. The typical EV has 40 KWh of capacity. This works out to 10 hr of battery backup. The best EV has 100 KWh, meaning it will back up the house for about one day. And these calculations don't include the energy losses inherent in power conversion, so the actual times will be 10 to 20 percent less. Homes in Florida have been without power for a week, so an EV is NOT a suitable backup power source. On the plus side, the 98 KWh capacity of the Ford Lightning extended range pickup is seven times the capacity of the Tesla Power Wall. But at $81k for the CHEAPEST extended range Lightning PLUS $4k for the bi-lateral charger AND $1-2k for installation for a total cost of $87k you are FAR BETTER OFF buying a Generac home generator at $5-6k.

Gnatguy:

He didn't call them generators.

"So, in an extreme event, from a neighborhood resiliency perspective,
they can actually work basically like a generator"

> https://www.cnsnews.com/article/national/susan-jones/buttigieg-electric-vehicles-could-be-very-useful-during-power-outage

They're asking for donations.
They want to sell me an ugly hat for $30.

Reloaded the page, and now they're offering childish t-shirts too.

On Sat, 8 Oct 2022 12:00:09 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
<soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote:

>https://www.cnsnews.com/article/national/susan-jones/buttigieg-electric-vehicles-could-be-very-useful-during-power-outage
>
>Of course, EVs don't "generate" anything, they are just a big battery. At best, they can be called a "reserve power source." Of course, once you have drained the EV's battery it won't MOVE. Using it as a power source means it must be connected to the charger which is usually in the garage, the same place that Florida officials said NOT to leave your EV. And the charger MUST be designed for bi-directional use and ONLY Ford has announced such a charger (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a39493654/can-your-ev-power-your-house/). So most EVs will be useless for this purpose, anyway.
>
>Assuming you own a Ford Lightning AND have a bi-directional charger (which costs FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS), how long can you use the EV as a power source, anyhow? My all-electric home is currently drawing 4KW without the AC or heat pump running.

Yikes. Where does 4 KW go without a/c?

What's your monthly bill?

>The typical EV has 40 KWh of capacity. This works out to 10 hr of battery backup. The best EV has 100 KWh, meaning it will back up the house for about one day. And these calculations don't include the energy losses inherent in power conversion, so the actual times will be 10 to 20 percent less. Homes in Florida have been without power for a week, so an EV is NOT a suitable backup power source. On the plus side, the 98 KWh capacity of the Ford Lightning extended range pickup is seven times the capacity of the Tesla Power Wall. But at $81k for the CHEAPEST extended range Lightning PLUS $4k for the bi-lateral charger AND $1-2k for installation for a total cost of $87k you are FAR BETTER OFF buying a Generac home generator at $5-6k.

An ev, or a gas car, is good for charging cell phones. But who wants a
dead car during a power outage? Who is willing to bet on how long an
outage is going to last?

Some idiot called the new GM electric truck a "power plant."

On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 1:15:23 PM UTC-7, corvid wrote:
> Gnatguy:
>
> He didn't call them generators.
>
> "So, in an extreme event, from a neighborhood resiliency perspective,
> they can actually work basically like a generator"
>
> > https://www.cnsnews.com/article/national/susan-jones/buttigieg-electric-vehicles-could-be-very-useful-during-power-outage
>
> They're asking for donations.
> They want to sell me an ugly hat for $30.
>
> Reloaded the page, and now they're offering childish t-shirts too.

That is saying that "gasoline works basically as an engine." No, a battery IS NOT a generator - it is ONLY an energy storage device, and one of limited capacity. And there is no recharging it in a situation like this, so you are trading off mobility for convenience. As I already pointed out, it is by FAR more cost effective to install a REAL generator.

On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 4:16:26 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Oct 2022 12:00:09 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
> <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >https://www.cnsnews.com/article/national/susan-jones/buttigieg-electric-vehicles-could-be-very-useful-during-power-outage
> >
> >Of course, EVs don't "generate" anything, they are just a big battery. At best, they can be called a "reserve power source." Of course, once you have drained the EV's battery it won't MOVE. Using it as a power source means it must be connected to the charger which is usually in the garage, the same place that Florida officials said NOT to leave your EV. And the charger MUST be designed for bi-directional use and ONLY Ford has announced such a charger (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a39493654/can-your-ev-power-your-house/). So most EVs will be useless for this purpose, anyway.
> >
> >Assuming you own a Ford Lightning AND have a bi-directional charger (which costs FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS), how long can you use the EV as a power source, anyhow? My all-electric home is currently drawing 4KW without the AC or heat pump running.
> Yikes. Where does 4 KW go without a/c?
>
> What's your monthly bill?

That was what I read off at that moment from my energy monitoring system. I got our latest utility bill and totaled the usage for the full year; that worked out to be 2.15 KW.

> >The typical EV has 40 KWh of capacity. This works out to 10 hr of battery backup. The best EV has 100 KWh, meaning it will back up the house for about one day. And these calculations don't include the energy losses inherent in power conversion, so the actual times will be 10 to 20 percent less. Homes in Florida have been without power for a week, so an EV is NOT a suitable backup power source. On the plus side, the 98 KWh capacity of the Ford Lightning extended range pickup is seven times the capacity of the Tesla Power Wall. But at $81k for the CHEAPEST extended range Lightning PLUS $4k for the bi-lateral charger AND $1-2k for installation for a total cost of $87k you are FAR BETTER OFF buying a Generac home generator at $5-6k.
> An ev, or a gas car, is good for charging cell phones. But who wants a
> dead car during a power outage? Who is willing to bet on how long an
> outage is going to last?
>
> Some idiot called the new GM electric truck a "power plant."

As I just pointed out in my last post (which should have been obvious, but what is obvious to most is not obvious to some posters on SED). EVs might be useful for short-term outages of a few hours, but at an insanely high cost. I will bet that Generac will start running a bunch of ads in Florida. Personally, I would not go to the expense considering the very high reliability of electric power in our area, plus the fact that our power is distributed thru underground lines. But if I lived in a more rural area with a lot of trees I would think differently.

Gnatguy wrote:
> But if I lived in a more rural area with a lot of trees I would think differently.

What about tumbleweeds?

On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:16:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 1:05:14 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 1:15:23 PM UTC-7, corvid wrote:
> > > Gnatguy:
> > >
> > > He didn't call them generators.
> > >
> > > "So, in an extreme event, from a neighborhood resiliency perspective,
> > > they can actually work basically like a generator"
> > >
> > > > https://www.cnsnews.com/article/national/susan-jones/buttigieg-electric-vehicles-could-be-very-useful-during-power-outage
> > >
> > > They're asking for donations.
> > > They want to sell me an ugly hat for $30.
> > >
> > > Reloaded the page, and now they're offering childish t-shirts too.
> >
> > That is saying that "gasoline works basically as an engine." No, a battery IS NOT a generator - it is ONLY an energy storage device, and one of limited capacity.
> Any real energy storage device has a limited capacity.
> > And there is no recharging it in a situation like this, so you are trading off mobility for convenience. As I already pointed out, it is by FAR more cost effective to install a REAL generator.
> But in an emergency you won't have the opportunity. And emergencies usually get resolved rapidly, so it make sense to use up the power you have got handy to keep yourself alive until the emergency recovery services can kick in. Insisting on keeping your electric car fully charged isn't a constructive reaction in an emergency. but it is the sort of reaction you could expect from an idiot like Gnatguy.
>
> --
> Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

Hey Bozo, just tell me that a BATTERY is a GENERATOR.

On 10/16/22 18:55, Flyguy wrote:
>>> That is saying that "gasoline works basically as an engine." No,
>>> a battery IS NOT a generator - it is ONLY an energy storage
>>> device, and one of limited capacity.

Like a gas tank.

Batteries and generators both convert chemical energy into electrical
energy.

>> Any real energy storage device has a limited capacity.
>>> And there is no recharging it in a situation like this, so you
>>> are trading off mobility for convenience. As I already pointed
>>> out, it is by FAR more cost effective to install a REAL
>>> generator.

That was a stupid thing to point out.
Nobody said to buy a truck instead of a generator.

>> But in an emergency you won't have the opportunity. And emergencies
>> usually get resolved rapidly, so it make sense to use up the power
>> you have got handy to keep yourself alive until the emergency
>> recovery services can kick in. Insisting on keeping your electric
>> car fully charged isn't a constructive reaction in an emergency.
>> but it is the sort of reaction you could expect from an idiot like
>> Gnatguy.
>>
>> -- Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney
>
> Hey Bozo, just tell me that a BATTERY is a GENERATOR.

The world is beaming with expanding wave functions. By refining, we
self-actualize.

This is a real generator.
http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/

GnatSpew <spewmore2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote in news:5f252c7b-62fd-4e6f-
8744-f3aa6d67bed1n@googlegroups.com:

> Hey Bozo, just tell me that a BATTERY is a GENERATOR.
>

No, you retarded piece of shit, but a moving mass... a car in motion
can be and is in many cases, such as that of an EV which has
regenerative braking incorporated into its design and function.

You are only about as stupid as a senile old ReThugLeTard can get.
You are a pathetic UNamerican PUNK, at best, chump!

On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 3:00:16 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> https://www.cnsnews.com/article/national/susan-jones/buttigieg-electric-vehicles-could-be-very-useful-during-power-outage
>
> Of course, EVs don't "generate" anything, they are just a big battery. At best, they can be called a "reserve power source." Of course, once you have drained the EV's battery it won't MOVE. Using it as a power source means it must be connected to the charger which is usually in the garage, the same place that Florida officials said NOT to leave your EV. And the charger MUST be designed for bi-directional use and ONLY Ford has announced such a charger (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a39493654/can-your-ev-power-your-house/). So most EVs will be useless for this purpose, anyway.
>
> Assuming you own a Ford Lightning AND have a bi-directional charger (which costs FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS), how long can you use the EV as a power source, anyhow? My all-electric home is currently drawing 4KW without the AC or heat pump running. The typical EV has 40 KWh of capacity. This works out to 10 hr of battery backup. The best EV has 100 KWh, meaning it will back up the house for about one day. And these calculations don't include the energy losses inherent in power conversion, so the actual times will be 10 to 20 percent less. Homes in Florida have been without power for a week, so an EV is NOT a suitable backup power source. On the plus side, the 98 KWh capacity of the Ford Lightning extended range pickup is seven times the capacity of the Tesla Power Wall. But at $81k for the CHEAPEST extended range Lightning PLUS $4k for the bi-lateral charger AND $1-2k for installation for a total cost of $87k you are FAR BETTER OFF buying a Generac home generator at $5-6k.

By "all electric" do you mean electric hot water heater? That 4kW must have been read when the heater was running. Other than that and you're doing something frivolous and wasteful.

You can use an ICE vehicle to power a high efficiency inverter, works in a pinch, fuel mileage is NOT good, but those inverters give you a lot of functionality for the price, and they cut off on low battery so you can still start the vehicle. They're really intended for building contractors working on a non-electrified site, so all the big tool manufacturers sell a lot of them.

And they're just fine for homeowners who have a critical application, such as powering lifesaving medical equipment, or powering a sump/ drainage pump to prevent flooding/ water damage. Although for the lifesaving medical application, I would use a portable inverter generator and fuel it with gas siphoned out of the ICE tank if necessary.

The key to power backup for the home, the absolute MOST important consideration, is to shed loads to an absolute minimum. There are power panels available that allow you to configure your wiring for this so everything essential gets switched over in backup mode, and even then the individual circuits can be shut off/on. These fools who buy inappropriately oversized generators and their accessorizing ( for top dollar) find that in an extended outage situation, they're paying $150-$300 per day just to idle the generator, and that's if they can find fuel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that cheap gas fired Generac crap, actually all the NG crap, is only rated for 1,000 operating life before something degrades or pops, that's on average. Diesels, which can burn biofuel, handle 20,000 hour operating life average, and then they can be rebuilt.

On Sunday, October 16, 2022 at 7:32:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 12:55:07 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:16:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 1:05:14 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 1:15:23 PM UTC-7, corvid wrote:
> > > > > Gnatguy:
> > > > >
> > > > > He didn't call them generators.
> > > > >
> > > > > "So, in an extreme event, from a neighborhood resiliency perspective,
> > > > > they can actually work basically like a generator"
> > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.cnsnews.com/article/national/susan-jones/buttigieg-electric-vehicles-could-be-very-useful-during-power-outage
> > > > >
> > > > > They're asking for donations.
> > > > > They want to sell me an ugly hat for $30.
> > > > >
> > > > > Reloaded the page, and now they're offering childish t-shirts too..
> > > >
> > > > That is saying that "gasoline works basically as an engine." No, a battery IS NOT a generator - it is ONLY an energy storage device, and one of limited capacity.
> > >
> > > Any real energy storage device has a limited capacity.
> > >
> > > > And there is no recharging it in a situation like this, so you are trading off mobility for convenience. As I already pointed out, it is by FAR more cost effective to install a REAL generator.
> > >
> > > But in an emergency you won't have the opportunity. And emergencies usually get resolved rapidly, so it make sense to use up the power you have got handy to keep yourself alive until the emergency recovery services can kick in. Insisting on keeping your electric car fully charged isn't a constructive reaction in an emergency. but it is the sort of reaction you could expect from an idiot like Gnatguy.
> >
> > Hey just tell me that a BATTERY is a GENERATOR.
>
> Why would I do that? I could tell you that if you needed power urgently, and only for a short time, you should be just as happy to get it out of a battery as out of a generator, but you are much too stupid to understand that.
>
> --
> Bill Sloman, Sydney

Because it would force you to admit that Buttigieg is a TOTAL IDIOT, which he is.

On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 8:58:13 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 3:00:16 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> > https://www.cnsnews.com/article/national/susan-jones/buttigieg-electric-vehicles-could-be-very-useful-during-power-outage
> >
> > Of course, EVs don't "generate" anything, they are just a big battery. At best, they can be called a "reserve power source." Of course, once you have drained the EV's battery it won't MOVE. Using it as a power source means it must be connected to the charger which is usually in the garage, the same place that Florida officials said NOT to leave your EV. And the charger MUST be designed for bi-directional use and ONLY Ford has announced such a charger (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a39493654/can-your-ev-power-your-house/). So most EVs will be useless for this purpose, anyway.
> >
> > Assuming you own a Ford Lightning AND have a bi-directional charger (which costs FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS), how long can you use the EV as a power source, anyhow? My all-electric home is currently drawing 4KW without the AC or heat pump running. The typical EV has 40 KWh of capacity. This works out to 10 hr of battery backup. The best EV has 100 KWh, meaning it will back up the house for about one day. And these calculations don't include the energy losses inherent in power conversion, so the actual times will be 10 to 20 percent less. Homes in Florida have been without power for a week, so an EV is NOT a suitable backup power source. On the plus side, the 98 KWh capacity of the Ford Lightning extended range pickup is seven times the capacity of the Tesla Power Wall. But at $81k for the CHEAPEST extended range Lightning PLUS $4k for the bi-lateral charger AND $1-2k for installation for a total cost of $87k you are FAR BETTER OFF buying a Generac home generator at $5-6k.
> By "all electric" do you mean electric hot water heater? That 4kW must have been read when the heater was running. Other than that and you're doing something frivolous and wasteful.
>
> You can use an ICE v

ehicle to power a high efficiency inverter, works in a pinch, fuel mileage is NOT good, but those inverters give you a lot of functionality for the price, and they cut off on low battery so you can still start the vehicle. They're really intended for building contractors working on a non-electrified site, so all the big tool manufacturers sell a lot of them.
>
> And they're just fine for homeowners who have a critical application, such as powering lifesaving medical equipment, or powering a sump/ drainage pump to prevent flooding/ water damage. Although for the lifesaving medical application, I would use a portable inverter generator and fuel it with gas siphoned out of the ICE tank if necessary.
>
> The key to power backup for the home, the absolute MOST important consideration, is to shed loads to an absolute minimum. There are power panels available that allow you to configure your wiring for this so everything essential gets switched over in backup mode, and even then the individual circuits can be shut off/on. These fools who buy inappropriately oversized generators and their accessorizing ( for top dollar) find that in an extended outage situation, they're paying $150-$300 per day just to idle the generator, and that's if they can find fuel.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but that cheap gas fired Generac crap, actually all the NG crap, is only rated for 1,000 operating life before something degrades or pops, that's on average. Diesels, which can burn biofuel, handle 20,000 hour operating life average, and then they can be rebuilt.

LOL! What a fucking idiot you are!! By "all-electric" I mean EXACTLY THAT: EVERY appliance in my home, furnace, heat pump, hot water heater, dryer, washer, dishwasher, TV, microwave, coffee maker, toothbrush, etc., IS ELECTRIC.

As I have already mentioned, my average load over a YEAR is 2.1 KW.

No, you CAN'T DIY an EV-to-home inverter.

The government already has a plan to "shed loads": they cut off ALL OF YOUR POWER. PERIOD.

A home generator system needs to be designed by a licensed expert and installed by licensed electricians. Anything less is a DEATH TRAP.

Yes, you are FUCKING WRONG, Generac is a well-respected producer of standby generators. Their life expectancy is 25-30 YEARS:
https://www.generac.com/Industrial/professional-resources/news-whitepapers/powerconnect-newsletter/archived-articles/september-2018/considering-natural-gas-fuel#:~:text=Typical%20life%20span%20for%20standby,and%20the%20quality%20of%20installation.

On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 12:31:28 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 4:13:21 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 8:58:13 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 3:00:16 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> > >
> > > > https://www.cnsnews.com/article/national/susan-jones/buttigieg-electric-vehicles-could-be-very-useful-during-power-outage
> > > >
> > > > Of course, EVs don't "generate" anything, they are just a big battery. At best, they can be called a "reserve power source." Of course, once you have drained the EV's battery it won't MOVE. Using it as a power source means it must be connected to the charger which is usually in the garage, the same place that Florida officials said NOT to leave your EV. And the charger MUST be designed for bi-directional use and ONLY Ford has announced such a charger (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a39493654/can-your-ev-power-your-house/). So most EVs will be useless for this purpose, anyway.
> > > >
> > > > Assuming you own a Ford Lightning AND have a bi-directional charger (which costs FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS), how long can you use the EV as a power source, anyhow? My all-electric home is currently drawing 4KW without the AC or heat pump running. The typical EV has 40 KWh of capacity. This works out to 10 hr of battery backup. The best EV has 100 KWh, meaning it will back up the house for about one day. And these calculations don't include the energy losses inherent in power conversion, so the actual times will be 10 to 20 percent less. Homes in Florida have been without power for a week, so an EV is NOT a suitable backup power source. On the plus side, the 98 KWh capacity of the Ford Lightning extended range pickup is seven times the capacity of the Tesla Power Wall. But at $81k for the CHEAPEST extended range Lightning PLUS $4k for the bi-lateral charger AND $1-2k for installation for a total cost of $87k you are FAR BETTER OFF buying a Generac home generator at $5-6k.
> > >
> > > By "all electric" do you mean electric hot water heater? That 4kW must have been read when the heater was running. Other than that and you're doing something frivolous and wasteful.
> > >
> > > You can use an ICE vehicle to power a high efficiency inverter, works in a pinch, fuel mileage is NOT good, but those inverters give you a lot of functionality for the price, and they cut off on low battery so you can still start the vehicle. They're really intended for building contractors working on a non-electrified site, so all the big tool manufacturers sell a lot of them.
> > >
> > > And they're just fine for homeowners who have a critical application, such as powering lifesaving medical equipment, or powering a sump/ drainage pump to prevent flooding/ water damage. Although for the lifesaving medical application, I would use a portable inverter generator and fuel it with gas siphoned out of the ICE tank if necessary.
> > >
> > > The key to power backup for the home, the absolute MOST important consideration, is to shed loads to an absolute minimum. There are power panels available that allow you to configure your wiring for this so everything essential gets switched over in backup mode, and even then the individual circuits can be shut off/on. These fools who buy inappropriately oversized generators and their accessorizing ( for top dollar) find that in an extended outage situation, they're paying $150-$300 per day just to idle the generator, and that's if they can find fuel.
> > >
> > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but that cheap gas fired Generac crap, actually all the NG crap, is only rated for 1,000 operating life before something degrades or pops, that's on average. Diesels, which can burn biofuel, handle 20,000 hour operating life average, and then they can be rebuilt.
> >
> > LOL! What a fucking idiot you are!! By "all-electric" I mean EXACTLY THAT: EVERY appliance in my home, furnace, heat pump, hot water heater, dryer, washer, dishwasher, TV, microwave, coffee maker, toothbrush, etc., IS ELECTRIC.
> >
> > As I have already mentioned, my average load over a YEAR is 2.1 KW.
> >
> > No, you CAN'T DIY an EV-to-home inverter.
> Gnatguy certainly couldn't. I probably could, but since I haven't got a local electrician's license I'd have to pay somebody else to hook it up.

And you probably could build your own nuclear reactor - in YOUR OWN MIND!

> > The government already has a plan to "shed loads": they cut off ALL OF YOUR POWER. PERIOD.
> >
> > A home generator system needs to be designed by a licensed expert and installed by licensed electricians. Anything less is a DEATH TRAP.
> The license doesn't make it safe. The expertise does. Licensed electricians are mostly fine when they are dealing with the kind of stuff they've been trained to deal with. They might have trouble with a new design.

The license means it conforms to electrical codes and ISN'T a death trap. BTW, I AM NOT talking about electricians, fool.

> > Yes, you are FUCKING WRONG, Generac is a well-respected producer of standby generators. Their life expectancy is 25-30 YEARS:
> > https://www.generac.com/Industrial/professional-resources/news-whitepapers/powerconnect-newsletter/archived-articles/september-2018/considering-natural-gas-fuel#:~:text=Typical%20life%20span%20for%20standby,and%20the%20quality%20of%20installation.
> That will be 25-30 years with regular scheduled maintenance. Gnatguy wouldn't bother.

HA HA HA HA! Translation: Bozo ADMITS that he was WRONG!!!!!!
>
> --
> Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney