How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters

This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...

Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...

?

But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.

On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>
>This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>
>Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>
>?
>
>But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.

He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
about, and inductor saturation.

I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
voltage.

Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in news:thtvdg$eui8$1
@dont-email.me:

> But anyways,

Go away, TrumpTainted fucktard.

On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 03:12:53 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<oa75kh1m7jkagtt3b99969mooc8ljep0r6@4ax.com>:

>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
>>
>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>>
>>This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>>
>>Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>>
>>?
>>
>>But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.
>
>
>He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
>about, and inductor saturation.
>
>I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
>an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
>voltage.

The old CRT TV flyback was very interesting
64 uS line time, few uS flyback time, 25 kV HV tuned, linear current in deflection coil... S correction..
plus some pincussion corrections for color TV.
Later ones had a voltage multiplier.
Early ones a PD100 stabilizer triode on the 25 kV.
I have kept one CRT color monitor in the attic, my personal particle accelerator!

My first CRT scope used a BW 43 cm CRT and an old car ignition coil driven by an audio amplifier at a few kHz
for HV and deflection. Not very linear but great fun, Tube diode as HV rectifier.

For real HV:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202430566213
:-)
I have one, 20kV is more what it looks like

PMT HV supply:
http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg

Or this PMT circuit, some kV:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/

On 10/9/2022 7:01 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 03:12:53 -0700) it happened John Larkin
> <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
> <oa75kh1m7jkagtt3b99969mooc8ljep0r6@4ax.com>:
>
>> On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
>>>
>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>>>
>>> This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>>>
>>> Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.
>>
>> He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
>> about, and inductor saturation.
>>
>> I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
>> an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
>> voltage.
> The old CRT TV flyback was very interesting
> 64 uS line time, few uS flyback time, 25 kV HV tuned, linear current in deflection coil... S correction..
> plus some pincussion corrections for color TV.
> Later ones had a voltage multiplier.
> Early ones a PD100 stabilizer triode on the 25 kV.
> I have kept one CRT color monitor in the attic, my personal particle accelerator!
>
> My first CRT scope used a BW 43 cm CRT and an old car ignition coil driven by an audio amplifier at a few kHz
> for HV and deflection. Not very linear but great fun, Tube diode as HV rectifier.
>
> For real HV:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/202430566213
> :-)
> I have one, 20kV is more what it looks like
>
> PMT HV supply:
> http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg

The 1MV unit(Module type: MC-901)  is uhum interesting, 1 Amp out at 1
MV  ;-)
yes, typo.
                              Mikek

>
> Or this PMT circuit, some kV:
> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/
>
>
>
>
>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 12:01:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 03:12:53 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
><oa75kh1m7jkagtt3b99969mooc8ljep0r6@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
>>>
>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>>>
>>>This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>>>
>>>Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>>>
>>>?
>>>
>>>But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.
>>
>>
>>He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
>>about, and inductor saturation.
>>
>>I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
>>an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
>>voltage.
>
>The old CRT TV flyback was very interesting
>64 uS line time, few uS flyback time, 25 kV HV tuned, linear current in deflection coil... S correction..
>plus some pincussion corrections for color TV.
>Later ones had a voltage multiplier.
>Early ones a PD100 stabilizer triode on the 25 kV.
>I have kept one CRT color monitor in the attic, my personal particle accelerator!
>
>My first CRT scope used a BW 43 cm CRT and an old car ignition coil driven by an audio amplifier at a few kHz
>for HV and deflection. Not very linear but great fun, Tube diode as HV rectifier.
>
>For real HV:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/202430566213
>:-)
>I have one, 20kV is more what it looks like
>
>PMT HV supply:
> http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg
>
>Or this PMT circuit, some kV:
> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/
>
>
>
>

Here's a small HV supply:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3n5af9sw1a1flh/28S840A_3.pdf?dl=0

LTC3803 is a great little chip.

I'm currently designing the power supplies for a new delay generator
box. Input is from a +12 or +24 wart, either has to work. The design
engineer C wants +20Q, +5Q, +4Q, +3.3, +1.8, +1.35, +1, -6, and -5Q,
where Q means a very quiet supply. The C wants +2.5 too and she won't
get it; enough is enough.

It has to all fit into 4 square inches x 0.2 high and use parts we can
get and not splatter a bunch of EMI. Yuk. It's like playing a
9-dimensional chess game when you're drunk.

Zynq FPGAs are great but real power hogs.

On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 4:06:17 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>
> This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>
> Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>
> ?
>
> But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.

Misleading title to that article, he does no such thing. It's a bunch of run-of-the-mill factoids about boost converters dating back 50 years now. And he's just finding about it now?

Anybody who creates such a confounded mess they have to refer to equation 101.23 as a justification for further development of the topic is a moron.

On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:45:26 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<vpp5khtd24t4kd2dkp2auo0iirb8n4bdg6@4ax.com>:

>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 12:01:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 03:12:53 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>><oa75kh1m7jkagtt3b99969mooc8ljep0r6@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>>>>
>>>>This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>>>>
>>>>Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>>>>
>>>>?
>>>>
>>>>But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.
>>>
>>>
>>>He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
>>>about, and inductor saturation.
>>>
>>>I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
>>>an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
>>>voltage.
>>
>>The old CRT TV flyback was very interesting
>>64 uS line time, few uS flyback time, 25 kV HV tuned, linear current in deflection coil... S correction..
>>plus some pincussion corrections for color TV.
>>Later ones had a voltage multiplier.
>>Early ones a PD100 stabilizer triode on the 25 kV.
>>I have kept one CRT color monitor in the attic, my personal particle accelerator!
>>
>>My first CRT scope used a BW 43 cm CRT and an old car ignition coil driven by an audio amplifier at a few kHz
>>for HV and deflection. Not very linear but great fun, Tube diode as HV rectifier.
>>
>>For real HV:
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/202430566213
>>:-)
>>I have one, 20kV is more what it looks like
>>
>>PMT HV supply:
>> http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg
>>
>>Or this PMT circuit, some kV:
>> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Here's a small HV supply:
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3n5af9sw1a1flh/28S840A_3.pdf?dl=0
>
>LTC3803 is a great little chip.

Interesting, that switch S2 to lower the voltage
Also that LED in series with the 78L15 to get to 17 V, I have used LEDs as zeners several times.
Never used that LTC3803, usually program a PIC 18F14K22 as those have a comparator that is hardwired to its PWM
generator so overcurrent trigger works very good and fast, plus ADCs of course, and serial and i2c communication.

>I'm currently designing the power supplies for a new delay generator
>box. Input is from a +12 or +24 wart, either has to work. The design
>engineer C wants +20Q, +5Q, +4Q, +3.3, +1.8, +1.35, +1, -6, and -5Q,
>where Q means a very quiet supply. The C wants +2.5 too and she won't
>get it; enough is enough.

Ground loops... ?
looks a bit .. well.. much.. some LM317s ?? LOL
one switcher with transformer with separate secondary windings for + and - and LM317s to the little voltage steps..
Realy need to know the currents.. and stabilization accuracy.

>It has to all fit into 4 square inches x 0.2 high and use parts we can
>get and not splatter a bunch of EMI. Yuk. It's like playing a
>9-dimensional chess game when you're drunk.
>
>Zynq FPGAs are great but real power hogs.

So no LM317 but those LM2576 switchers?
I once did a thyristor regulator followed by a transistor regulator to filter the ripple
the tranistor regulator drove the thyristor so there would always be just enough voltage across the series transistor
to filter the ripple..

On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 17:36:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:45:26 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
><vpp5khtd24t4kd2dkp2auo0iirb8n4bdg6@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 12:01:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 03:12:53 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>><oa75kh1m7jkagtt3b99969mooc8ljep0r6@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>>>>>
>>>>>This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>>>>>
>>>>>?
>>>>>
>>>>>But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
>>>>about, and inductor saturation.
>>>>
>>>>I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
>>>>an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
>>>>voltage.
>>>
>>>The old CRT TV flyback was very interesting
>>>64 uS line time, few uS flyback time, 25 kV HV tuned, linear current in deflection coil... S correction..
>>>plus some pincussion corrections for color TV.
>>>Later ones had a voltage multiplier.
>>>Early ones a PD100 stabilizer triode on the 25 kV.
>>>I have kept one CRT color monitor in the attic, my personal particle accelerator!
>>>
>>>My first CRT scope used a BW 43 cm CRT and an old car ignition coil driven by an audio amplifier at a few kHz
>>>for HV and deflection. Not very linear but great fun, Tube diode as HV rectifier.
>>>
>>>For real HV:
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/202430566213
>>>:-)
>>>I have one, 20kV is more what it looks like
>>>
>>>PMT HV supply:
>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg
>>>
>>>Or this PMT circuit, some kV:
>>> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Here's a small HV supply:
>>
>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3n5af9sw1a1flh/28S840A_3.pdf?dl=0
>>
>>LTC3803 is a great little chip.
>
>Interesting, that switch S2 to lower the voltage
>Also that LED in series with the 78L15 to get to 17 V, I have used LEDs as zeners several times.
>Never used that LTC3803, usually program a PIC 18F14K22 as those have a comparator that is hardwired to its PWM
>generator so overcurrent trigger works very good and fast, plus ADCs of course, and serial and i2c communication.
>
>

The 3803 runs the inductor to a peak current every cycle, which is
cool. It results in a constant-power limit much above Vin, rather than
constant-current.

>
>
>>I'm currently designing the power supplies for a new delay generator
>>box. Input is from a +12 or +24 wart, either has to work. The design
>>engineer C wants +20Q, +5Q, +4Q, +3.3, +1.8, +1.35, +1, -6, and -5Q,
>>where Q means a very quiet supply. The C wants +2.5 too and she won't
>>get it; enough is enough.
>
>Ground loops... ?
>looks a bit .. well.. much.. some LM317s ?? LOL

We need low dropout linears to save power. LM1117 or preferably
LM2941, whatever we can get.

>one switcher with transformer with separate secondary windings for + and - and LM317s to the little voltage steps..
>Realy need to know the currents.. and stabilization accuracy.

Total maybe 8 watts. The horrble Zynq may need an amp or more of +1
alone.

>
>
>>It has to all fit into 4 square inches x 0.2 high and use parts we can
>>get and not splatter a bunch of EMI. Yuk. It's like playing a
>>9-dimensional chess game when you're drunk.
>>
>>Zynq FPGAs are great but real power hogs.
>
>So no LM317 but those LM2576 switchers?

Looks like we can get the cute little TPS5 series of synchronous
switchers. We just scored a reel of TPS562208 for 19 cents each, but
they are 17v max input so we need another part for the first switcher.

I like LM2576, dumb and quiet, but it's big and needs a big catch
diode and a giant inductor. Need something else.

>I once did a thyristor regulator followed by a transistor regulator to filter the ripple
>the tranistor regulator drove the thyristor so there would always be just enough voltage across the series transistor
>to filter the ripple..

I can top that. A pre-regulator in the AC line, a giant power resistor
and a shunt thysistor, bang-bang on/off regulation.

On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 12:37:01 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<5s76khharga8opfcc04s4emtnaq5n2st69@4ax.com>:

>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 17:36:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:45:26 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>><vpp5khtd24t4kd2dkp2auo0iirb8n4bdg6@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 12:01:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 03:12:53 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>>><oa75kh1m7jkagtt3b99969mooc8ljep0r6@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
>>>>>about, and inductor saturation.
>>>>>
>>>>>I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
>>>>>an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
>>>>>voltage.
>>>>
>>>>The old CRT TV flyback was very interesting
>>>>64 uS line time, few uS flyback time, 25 kV HV tuned, linear current in deflection coil... S correction..
>>>>plus some pincussion corrections for color TV.
>>>>Later ones had a voltage multiplier.
>>>>Early ones a PD100 stabilizer triode on the 25 kV.
>>>>I have kept one CRT color monitor in the attic, my personal particle accelerator!
>>>>
>>>>My first CRT scope used a BW 43 cm CRT and an old car ignition coil driven by an audio amplifier at a few kHz
>>>>for HV and deflection. Not very linear but great fun, Tube diode as HV rectifier.
>>>>
>>>>For real HV:
>>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/202430566213
>>>>:-)
>>>>I have one, 20kV is more what it looks like
>>>>
>>>>PMT HV supply:
>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg
>>>>
>>>>Or this PMT circuit, some kV:
>>>> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Here's a small HV supply:
>>>
>>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3n5af9sw1a1flh/28S840A_3.pdf?dl=0
>>>
>>>LTC3803 is a great little chip.
>>
>>Interesting, that switch S2 to lower the voltage
>>Also that LED in series with the 78L15 to get to 17 V, I have used LEDs as zeners several times.
>>Never used that LTC3803, usually program a PIC 18F14K22 as those have a comparator that is hardwired to its PWM
>>generator so overcurrent trigger works very good and fast, plus ADCs of course, and serial and i2c communication.
>>
>>
>
>The 3803 runs the inductor to a peak current every cycle, which is
>cool. It results in a constant-power limit much above Vin, rather than
>constant-current.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>I'm currently designing the power supplies for a new delay generator
>>>box. Input is from a +12 or +24 wart, either has to work. The design
>>>engineer C wants +20Q, +5Q, +4Q, +3.3, +1.8, +1.35, +1, -6, and -5Q,
>>>where Q means a very quiet supply. The C wants +2.5 too and she won't
>>>get it; enough is enough.
>>
>>Ground loops... ?
>>looks a bit .. well.. much.. some LM317s ?? LOL
>
>We need low dropout linears to save power. LM1117 or preferably
>LM2941, whatever we can get.
>
>>one switcher with transformer with separate secondary windings for + and - and LM317s to the little voltage steps..
>>Realy need to know the currents.. and stabilization accuracy.
>
>Total maybe 8 watts. The horrble Zynq may need an amp or more of +1
>alone.
>
>
>>
>>
>>>It has to all fit into 4 square inches x 0.2 high and use parts we can
>>>get and not splatter a bunch of EMI. Yuk. It's like playing a
>>>9-dimensional chess game when you're drunk.
>>>
>>>Zynq FPGAs are great but real power hogs.
>>
>>So no LM317 but those LM2576 switchers?
>
>Looks like we can get the cute little TPS5 series of synchronous
>switchers. We just scored a reel of TPS562208 for 19 cents each, but
>they are 17v max input so we need another part for the first switcher.
>
>I like LM2576, dumb and quiet, but it's big and needs a big catch
>diode and a giant inductor. Need something else.
>
>>I once did a thyristor regulator followed by a transistor regulator to filter the ripple
>>the tranistor regulator drove the thyristor so there would always be just enough voltage across the series transistor
>>to filter the ripple..
>
>I can top that. A pre-regulator in the AC line, a giant power resistor
>and a shunt thysistor, bang-bang on/off regulation.

Shunt thyristor.. sounds like a crowbar, resistor equals heat dissipation...

On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 04:52:32 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 12:37:01 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
><5s76khharga8opfcc04s4emtnaq5n2st69@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 17:36:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:45:26 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>><vpp5khtd24t4kd2dkp2auo0iirb8n4bdg6@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 12:01:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 03:12:53 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>>>><oa75kh1m7jkagtt3b99969mooc8ljep0r6@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
>>>>>>about, and inductor saturation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
>>>>>>an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
>>>>>>voltage.
>>>>>
>>>>>The old CRT TV flyback was very interesting
>>>>>64 uS line time, few uS flyback time, 25 kV HV tuned, linear current in deflection coil... S correction..
>>>>>plus some pincussion corrections for color TV.
>>>>>Later ones had a voltage multiplier.
>>>>>Early ones a PD100 stabilizer triode on the 25 kV.
>>>>>I have kept one CRT color monitor in the attic, my personal particle accelerator!
>>>>>
>>>>>My first CRT scope used a BW 43 cm CRT and an old car ignition coil driven by an audio amplifier at a few kHz
>>>>>for HV and deflection. Not very linear but great fun, Tube diode as HV rectifier.
>>>>>
>>>>>For real HV:
>>>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/202430566213
>>>>>:-)
>>>>>I have one, 20kV is more what it looks like
>>>>>
>>>>>PMT HV supply:
>>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>>Or this PMT circuit, some kV:
>>>>> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Here's a small HV supply:
>>>>
>>>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3n5af9sw1a1flh/28S840A_3.pdf?dl=0
>>>>
>>>>LTC3803 is a great little chip.
>>>
>>>Interesting, that switch S2 to lower the voltage
>>>Also that LED in series with the 78L15 to get to 17 V, I have used LEDs as zeners several times.
>>>Never used that LTC3803, usually program a PIC 18F14K22 as those have a comparator that is hardwired to its PWM
>>>generator so overcurrent trigger works very good and fast, plus ADCs of course, and serial and i2c communication.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>The 3803 runs the inductor to a peak current every cycle, which is
>>cool. It results in a constant-power limit much above Vin, rather than
>>constant-current.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm currently designing the power supplies for a new delay generator
>>>>box. Input is from a +12 or +24 wart, either has to work. The design
>>>>engineer C wants +20Q, +5Q, +4Q, +3.3, +1.8, +1.35, +1, -6, and -5Q,
>>>>where Q means a very quiet supply. The C wants +2.5 too and she won't
>>>>get it; enough is enough.
>>>
>>>Ground loops... ?
>>>looks a bit .. well.. much.. some LM317s ?? LOL
>>
>>We need low dropout linears to save power. LM1117 or preferably
>>LM2941, whatever we can get.
>>
>>>one switcher with transformer with separate secondary windings for + and - and LM317s to the little voltage steps..
>>>Realy need to know the currents.. and stabilization accuracy.
>>
>>Total maybe 8 watts. The horrble Zynq may need an amp or more of +1
>>alone.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>It has to all fit into 4 square inches x 0.2 high and use parts we can
>>>>get and not splatter a bunch of EMI. Yuk. It's like playing a
>>>>9-dimensional chess game when you're drunk.
>>>>
>>>>Zynq FPGAs are great but real power hogs.
>>>
>>>So no LM317 but those LM2576 switchers?
>>
>>Looks like we can get the cute little TPS5 series of synchronous
>>switchers. We just scored a reel of TPS562208 for 19 cents each, but
>>they are 17v max input so we need another part for the first switcher.
>>
>>I like LM2576, dumb and quiet, but it's big and needs a big catch
>>diode and a giant inductor. Need something else.
>>
>>>I once did a thyristor regulator followed by a transistor regulator to filter the ripple
>>>the tranistor regulator drove the thyristor so there would always be just enough voltage across the series transistor
>>>to filter the ripple..
>>
>>I can top that. A pre-regulator in the AC line, a giant power resistor
>>and a shunt thysistor, bang-bang on/off regulation.
>
>Shunt thyristor.. sounds like a crowbar, resistor equals heat dissipation...
>

Not a crowbar. The thyristor shorted the series resistor when the
voltage to a big amp was low. That softened the powerup surge too.

This idea fatigued to death a bunch of big metal-case military-style
250 watt wirewound resistors. These types worked:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hbgfkvvg3xf6cg/Welwyn.JPG?raw=1

Thick film on porcelain steel. Very tough.

On a sunny day (Mon, 10 Oct 2022 08:01:04 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<ahc8kh1ha4givus6pmtq46r1e72kbpv2ee@4ax.com>:

>On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 04:52:32 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 12:37:01 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>><5s76khharga8opfcc04s4emtnaq5n2st69@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 17:36:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:45:26 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>>><vpp5khtd24t4kd2dkp2auo0iirb8n4bdg6@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 12:01:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 03:12:53 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>>>>><oa75kh1m7jkagtt3b99969mooc8ljep0r6@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
>>>>>>>about, and inductor saturation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
>>>>>>>an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
>>>>>>>voltage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The old CRT TV flyback was very interesting
>>>>>>64 uS line time, few uS flyback time, 25 kV HV tuned, linear current in deflection coil... S correction..
>>>>>>plus some pincussion corrections for color TV.
>>>>>>Later ones had a voltage multiplier.
>>>>>>Early ones a PD100 stabilizer triode on the 25 kV.
>>>>>>I have kept one CRT color monitor in the attic, my personal particle accelerator!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My first CRT scope used a BW 43 cm CRT and an old car ignition coil driven by an audio amplifier at a few kHz
>>>>>>for HV and deflection. Not very linear but great fun, Tube diode as HV rectifier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>For real HV:
>>>>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/202430566213
>>>>>>:-)
>>>>>>I have one, 20kV is more what it looks like
>>>>>>
>>>>>>PMT HV supply:
>>>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Or this PMT circuit, some kV:
>>>>>> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Here's a small HV supply:
>>>>>
>>>>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3n5af9sw1a1flh/28S840A_3.pdf?dl=0
>>>>>
>>>>>LTC3803 is a great little chip.
>>>>
>>>>Interesting, that switch S2 to lower the voltage
>>>>Also that LED in series with the 78L15 to get to 17 V, I have used LEDs as zeners several times.
>>>>Never used that LTC3803, usually program a PIC 18F14K22 as those have a comparator that is hardwired to its PWM
>>>>generator so overcurrent trigger works very good and fast, plus ADCs of course, and serial and i2c communication.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>The 3803 runs the inductor to a peak current every cycle, which is
>>>cool. It results in a constant-power limit much above Vin, rather than
>>>constant-current.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'm currently designing the power supplies for a new delay generator
>>>>>box. Input is from a +12 or +24 wart, either has to work. The design
>>>>>engineer C wants +20Q, +5Q, +4Q, +3.3, +1.8, +1.35, +1, -6, and -5Q,
>>>>>where Q means a very quiet supply. The C wants +2.5 too and she won't
>>>>>get it; enough is enough.
>>>>
>>>>Ground loops... ?
>>>>looks a bit .. well.. much.. some LM317s ?? LOL
>>>
>>>We need low dropout linears to save power. LM1117 or preferably
>>>LM2941, whatever we can get.
>>>
>>>>one switcher with transformer with separate secondary windings for + and - and LM317s to the little voltage steps..
>>>>Realy need to know the currents.. and stabilization accuracy.
>>>
>>>Total maybe 8 watts. The horrble Zynq may need an amp or more of +1
>>>alone.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It has to all fit into 4 square inches x 0.2 high and use parts we can
>>>>>get and not splatter a bunch of EMI. Yuk. It's like playing a
>>>>>9-dimensional chess game when you're drunk.
>>>>>
>>>>>Zynq FPGAs are great but real power hogs.
>>>>
>>>>So no LM317 but those LM2576 switchers?
>>>
>>>Looks like we can get the cute little TPS5 series of synchronous
>>>switchers. We just scored a reel of TPS562208 for 19 cents each, but
>>>they are 17v max input so we need another part for the first switcher.
>>>
>>>I like LM2576, dumb and quiet, but it's big and needs a big catch
>>>diode and a giant inductor. Need something else.
>>>
>>>>I once did a thyristor regulator followed by a transistor regulator to filter the ripple
>>>>the tranistor regulator drove the thyristor so there would always be just enough voltage across the series transistor
>>>>to filter the ripple..
>>>
>>>I can top that. A pre-regulator in the AC line, a giant power resistor
>>>and a shunt thysistor, bang-bang on/off regulation.
>>
>>Shunt thyristor.. sounds like a crowbar, resistor equals heat dissipation...
>>
>
>Not a crowbar. The thyristor shorted the series resistor when the
>voltage to a big amp was low. That softened the powerup surge too.

Ah, got it now

>This idea fatigued to death a bunch of big metal-case military-style
>250 watt wirewound resistors. These types worked:
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hbgfkvvg3xf6cg/Welwyn.JPG?raw=1
>
>Thick film on porcelain steel. Very tough.

I am still using these:
http://panteltje.com/pub/power_resistors_IMG_6291.JPG
little bit of heatsink.

And have this:
http://panteltje.com/pub/250W_1_GHz_dummy_load_IMG_4563.JPG

things are getting ever smaller, in a big country like the US one would think 'space enough' but no,
or do they expect it to fall apart to such a small size ;-)
In the old days, NTC resistors in the first Philips color TV sets, K6 circuit diagram:
http://server.idemdito.org/pcs/elec/18/k6-aa.png
see top left for many, one looked like a big black piece of coal.
One in series with the heaters, one in series with the DC power, one in series with the degaussing coils...

Evolution from tubes to transistors in their color TVs:
http://server.idemdito.org/blog/histo/tv/televisie-2.htm

Brings back memories...
things / circuits have gotten so much simpler with everything in chips
but the knowledge for how it really works is worth gold, to be able to do it
even with normal components, as we now see with the chip shortage.
I have the distinct impression current civilization is sort of stuck

On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 16:17:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Mon, 10 Oct 2022 08:01:04 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
><ahc8kh1ha4givus6pmtq46r1e72kbpv2ee@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 04:52:32 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 12:37:01 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>><5s76khharga8opfcc04s4emtnaq5n2st69@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 17:36:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:45:26 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>>>><vpp5khtd24t4kd2dkp2auo0iirb8n4bdg6@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 12:01:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 03:12:53 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>>>>>><oa75kh1m7jkagtt3b99969mooc8ljep0r6@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
>>>>>>>>about, and inductor saturation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
>>>>>>>>an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
>>>>>>>>voltage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The old CRT TV flyback was very interesting
>>>>>>>64 uS line time, few uS flyback time, 25 kV HV tuned, linear current in deflection coil... S correction..
>>>>>>>plus some pincussion corrections for color TV.
>>>>>>>Later ones had a voltage multiplier.
>>>>>>>Early ones a PD100 stabilizer triode on the 25 kV.
>>>>>>>I have kept one CRT color monitor in the attic, my personal particle accelerator!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>My first CRT scope used a BW 43 cm CRT and an old car ignition coil driven by an audio amplifier at a few kHz
>>>>>>>for HV and deflection. Not very linear but great fun, Tube diode as HV rectifier.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>For real HV:
>>>>>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/202430566213
>>>>>>>:-)
>>>>>>>I have one, 20kV is more what it looks like
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>PMT HV supply:
>>>>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Or this PMT circuit, some kV:
>>>>>>> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here's a small HV supply:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3n5af9sw1a1flh/28S840A_3.pdf?dl=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>>LTC3803 is a great little chip.
>>>>>
>>>>>Interesting, that switch S2 to lower the voltage
>>>>>Also that LED in series with the 78L15 to get to 17 V, I have used LEDs as zeners several times.
>>>>>Never used that LTC3803, usually program a PIC 18F14K22 as those have a comparator that is hardwired to its PWM
>>>>>generator so overcurrent trigger works very good and fast, plus ADCs of course, and serial and i2c communication.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The 3803 runs the inductor to a peak current every cycle, which is
>>>>cool. It results in a constant-power limit much above Vin, rather than
>>>>constant-current.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm currently designing the power supplies for a new delay generator
>>>>>>box. Input is from a +12 or +24 wart, either has to work. The design
>>>>>>engineer C wants +20Q, +5Q, +4Q, +3.3, +1.8, +1.35, +1, -6, and -5Q,
>>>>>>where Q means a very quiet supply. The C wants +2.5 too and she won't
>>>>>>get it; enough is enough.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ground loops... ?
>>>>>looks a bit .. well.. much.. some LM317s ?? LOL
>>>>
>>>>We need low dropout linears to save power. LM1117 or preferably
>>>>LM2941, whatever we can get.
>>>>
>>>>>one switcher with transformer with separate secondary windings for + and - and LM317s to the little voltage steps..
>>>>>Realy need to know the currents.. and stabilization accuracy.
>>>>
>>>>Total maybe 8 watts. The horrble Zynq may need an amp or more of +1
>>>>alone.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>It has to all fit into 4 square inches x 0.2 high and use parts we can
>>>>>>get and not splatter a bunch of EMI. Yuk. It's like playing a
>>>>>>9-dimensional chess game when you're drunk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Zynq FPGAs are great but real power hogs.
>>>>>
>>>>>So no LM317 but those LM2576 switchers?
>>>>
>>>>Looks like we can get the cute little TPS5 series of synchronous
>>>>switchers. We just scored a reel of TPS562208 for 19 cents each, but
>>>>they are 17v max input so we need another part for the first switcher.
>>>>
>>>>I like LM2576, dumb and quiet, but it's big and needs a big catch
>>>>diode and a giant inductor. Need something else.
>>>>
>>>>>I once did a thyristor regulator followed by a transistor regulator to filter the ripple
>>>>>the tranistor regulator drove the thyristor so there would always be just enough voltage across the series transistor
>>>>>to filter the ripple..
>>>>
>>>>I can top that. A pre-regulator in the AC line, a giant power resistor
>>>>and a shunt thysistor, bang-bang on/off regulation.
>>>
>>>Shunt thyristor.. sounds like a crowbar, resistor equals heat dissipation...
>>>
>>
>>Not a crowbar. The thyristor shorted the series resistor when the
>>voltage to a big amp was low. That softened the powerup surge too.
>
>Ah, got it now
>
>>This idea fatigued to death a bunch of big metal-case military-style
>>250 watt wirewound resistors. These types worked:
>>
>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hbgfkvvg3xf6cg/Welwyn.JPG?raw=1
>>
>>Thick film on porcelain steel. Very tough.
>
>I am still using these:
> http://panteltje.com/pub/power_resistors_IMG_6291.JPG
> little bit of heatsink.

My regulation scheme destroyed that style of resistor. After some
months they would short to the case.

>
>And have this:
> http://panteltje.com/pub/250W_1_GHz_dummy_load_IMG_4563.JPG
>
>things are getting ever smaller, in a big country like the US one would think 'space enough' but no,
>or do they expect it to fall apart to such a small size ;-)
>
>In the old days, NTC resistors in the first Philips color TV sets, K6 circuit diagram:
> http://server.idemdito.org/pcs/elec/18/k6-aa.png
> see top left for many, one looked like a big black piece of coal.
> One in series with the heaters, one in series with the DC power, one in series with the degaussing coils...
>
>Evolution from tubes to transistors in their color TVs:
> http://server.idemdito.org/blog/histo/tv/televisie-2.htm
>
>Brings back memories...
> things / circuits have gotten so much simpler with everything in chips
>but the knowledge for how it really works is worth gold, to be able to do it
>even with normal components, as we now see with the chip shortage.
>
>I have the distinct impression current civilization is sort of stuck
>
>or moving backward, I see things here done bad that would not have happened
>that way in the seventies... carelessness or incompetence...
>you are lucky if you have competent people working for you,
>hard to find any here these days it seems.

On a sunny day (Mon, 10 Oct 2022 09:30:09 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<d0i8khplkcgi9o26hq7lvbn0i2mqfi71fg@4ax.com>:

>On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 16:17:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Mon, 10 Oct 2022 08:01:04 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>><ahc8kh1ha4givus6pmtq46r1e72kbpv2ee@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 04:52:32 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 12:37:01 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>>><5s76khharga8opfcc04s4emtnaq5n2st69@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 17:36:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:45:26 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>>>>><vpp5khtd24t4kd2dkp2auo0iirb8n4bdg6@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 12:01:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 09 Oct 2022 03:12:53 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>><oa75kh1m7jkagtt3b99969mooc8ljep0r6@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
>>>>>>>>>about, and inductor saturation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
>>>>>>>>>an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
>>>>>>>>>voltage.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The old CRT TV flyback was very interesting
>>>>>>>>64 uS line time, few uS flyback time, 25 kV HV tuned, linear current in deflection coil... S correction..
>>>>>>>>plus some pincussion corrections for color TV.
>>>>>>>>Later ones had a voltage multiplier.
>>>>>>>>Early ones a PD100 stabilizer triode on the 25 kV.
>>>>>>>>I have kept one CRT color monitor in the attic, my personal particle accelerator!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>My first CRT scope used a BW 43 cm CRT and an old car ignition coil driven by an audio amplifier at a few kHz
>>>>>>>>for HV and deflection. Not very linear but great fun, Tube diode as HV rectifier.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>For real HV:
>>>>>>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/202430566213
>>>>>>>>:-)
>>>>>>>>I have one, 20kV is more what it looks like
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>PMT HV supply:
>>>>>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Or this PMT circuit, some kV:
>>>>>>>> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here's a small HV supply:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3n5af9sw1a1flh/28S840A_3.pdf?dl=0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>LTC3803 is a great little chip.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Interesting, that switch S2 to lower the voltage
>>>>>>Also that LED in series with the 78L15 to get to 17 V, I have used LEDs as zeners several times.
>>>>>>Never used that LTC3803, usually program a PIC 18F14K22 as those have a comparator that is hardwired to its PWM
>>>>>>generator so overcurrent trigger works very good and fast, plus ADCs of course, and serial and i2c communication.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The 3803 runs the inductor to a peak current every cycle, which is
>>>>>cool. It results in a constant-power limit much above Vin, rather than
>>>>>constant-current.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm currently designing the power supplies for a new delay generator
>>>>>>>box. Input is from a +12 or +24 wart, either has to work. The design
>>>>>>>engineer C wants +20Q, +5Q, +4Q, +3.3, +1.8, +1.35, +1, -6, and -5Q,
>>>>>>>where Q means a very quiet supply. The C wants +2.5 too and she won't
>>>>>>>get it; enough is enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ground loops... ?
>>>>>>looks a bit .. well.. much.. some LM317s ?? LOL
>>>>>
>>>>>We need low dropout linears to save power. LM1117 or preferably
>>>>>LM2941, whatever we can get.
>>>>>
>>>>>>one switcher with transformer with separate secondary windings for + and - and LM317s to the little voltage steps..
>>>>>>Realy need to know the currents.. and stabilization accuracy.
>>>>>
>>>>>Total maybe 8 watts. The horrble Zynq may need an amp or more of +1
>>>>>alone.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It has to all fit into 4 square inches x 0.2 high and use parts we can
>>>>>>>get and not splatter a bunch of EMI. Yuk. It's like playing a
>>>>>>>9-dimensional chess game when you're drunk.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Zynq FPGAs are great but real power hogs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So no LM317 but those LM2576 switchers?
>>>>>
>>>>>Looks like we can get the cute little TPS5 series of synchronous
>>>>>switchers. We just scored a reel of TPS562208 for 19 cents each, but
>>>>>they are 17v max input so we need another part for the first switcher.
>>>>>
>>>>>I like LM2576, dumb and quiet, but it's big and needs a big catch
>>>>>diode and a giant inductor. Need something else.
>>>>>
>>>>>>I once did a thyristor regulator followed by a transistor regulator to filter the ripple
>>>>>>the tranistor regulator drove the thyristor so there would always be just enough voltage across the series transistor
>>>>>>to filter the ripple..
>>>>>
>>>>>I can top that. A pre-regulator in the AC line, a giant power resistor
>>>>>and a shunt thysistor, bang-bang on/off regulation.
>>>>
>>>>Shunt thyristor.. sounds like a crowbar, resistor equals heat dissipation...
>>>>
>>>
>>>Not a crowbar. The thyristor shorted the series resistor when the
>>>voltage to a big amp was low. That softened the powerup surge too.
>>
>>Ah, got it now
>>
>>>This idea fatigued to death a bunch of big metal-case military-style
>>>250 watt wirewound resistors. These types worked:
>>>
>>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hbgfkvvg3xf6cg/Welwyn.JPG?raw=1
>>>
>>>Thick film on porcelain steel. Very tough.
>>
>>I am still using these:
>> http://panteltje.com/pub/power_resistors_IMG_6291.JPG
>> little bit of heatsink.
>
>My regulation scheme destroyed that style of resistor. After some
>months they would short to the case.
>
>
>>
>>And have this:
>> http://panteltje.com/pub/250W_1_GHz_dummy_load_IMG_4563.JPG
>>
>>things are getting ever smaller, in a big country like the US one would think 'space enough' but no,
>>or do they expect it to fall apart to such a small size ;-)
>>
>>In the old days, NTC resistors in the first Philips color TV sets, K6 circuit diagram:
>> http://server.idemdito.org/pcs/elec/18/k6-aa.png
>> see top left for many, one looked like a big black piece of coal.
>> One in series with the heaters, one in series with the DC power, one in series with the degaussing coils...
>>
>>Evolution from tubes to transistors in their color TVs:
>> http://server.idemdito.org/blog/histo/tv/televisie-2.htm
>>
>>Brings back memories...
>> things / circuits have gotten so much simpler with everything in chips
>>but the knowledge for how it really works is worth gold, to be able to do it
>>even with normal components, as we now see with the chip shortage.
>>
>>I have the distinct impression current civilization is sort of stuck
>>
>>or moving backward, I see things here done bad that would not have happened
>>that way in the seventies... carelessness or incompetence...
>>you are lucky if you have competent people working for you,
>>hard to find any here these days it seems.
>
>I blame Microsoft.

On 10/9/2022 6:12 AM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>>
>> This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>>
>> Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>>
>> ?
>>
>> But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.
>
>
> He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
> about, and inductor saturation.
>
> I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
> an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
> voltage.
>

The article this is from calls this dual-winding inductor boost topology
"novel" but I find it hard to believe it's that novel:

<https://html.scirp.org/file/2-1770466x10.png>

On Tue, 11 Oct 2022 12:44:07 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

>On 10/9/2022 6:12 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>>>
>>> This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>>>
>>> Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.
>>
>>
>> He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
>> about, and inductor saturation.
>>
>> I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
>> an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
>> voltage.
>>
>
>The article this is from calls this dual-winding inductor boost topology
>"novel" but I find it hard to believe it's that novel:
>
><https://html.scirp.org/file/2-1770466x10.png>

I hardly think that an autotransformer boost converter is a recent
invention. B+W tube TVs usually did that.

The old points-and-coil car ignition was similar.

On a sunny day (Tue, 11 Oct 2022 12:44:07 -0400) it happened bitrex
<user@example.net> wrote in <r3h1L.115010$tRy7.76841@fx36.iad>:

>On 10/9/2022 6:12 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
>>>
>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>>>
>>> This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>>>
>>> Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.
>>
>>
>> He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
>> about, and inductor saturation.
>>
>> I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
>> an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
>> voltage.
>>
>
>The article this is from calls this dual-winding inductor boost topology
>"novel" but I find it hard to believe it's that novel:
>
><https://html.scirp.org/file/2-1770466x10.png>

Just the secundary power in series, nothing new,
But why LK2? Not really needed.. same for LK1 if it is not coupled to anything, or is that the 'new' part?

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 04:47:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Tue, 11 Oct 2022 12:44:07 -0400) it happened bitrex
><user@example.net> wrote in <r3h1L.115010$tRy7.76841@fx36.iad>:
>
>>On 10/9/2022 6:12 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>>>>
>>>> This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>>>>
>>>> Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.
>>>
>>>
>>> He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
>>> about, and inductor saturation.
>>>
>>> I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
>>> an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
>>> voltage.
>>>
>>
>>The article this is from calls this dual-winding inductor boost topology
>>"novel" but I find it hard to believe it's that novel:
>>
>><https://html.scirp.org/file/2-1770466x10.png>
>
>Just the secundary power in series, nothing new,
>But why LK2? Not really needed.. same for LK1 if it is not coupled to anything, or is that the 'new' part?
>

They probably represent the leakage inductances in a simulation.

On a sunny day (Tue, 11 Oct 2022 22:05:11 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<njickhtm3f84iivphu2r8dcd1e4vjskt6a@4ax.com>:

>On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 04:47:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Tue, 11 Oct 2022 12:44:07 -0400) it happened bitrex
>><user@example.net> wrote in <r3h1L.115010$tRy7.76841@fx36.iad>:
>>
>>>On 10/9/2022 6:12 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 08:03:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> How to overcome the limits of boost converters:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power-management/whitepaper/21252189/analog-devices-how-to-overcome-the-limits-of-boost-converters
>>>>>
>>>>> This brings me back to designing TV horizontal output transformers and HV circuits...
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe be y'r tesla will run faster...
>>>>>
>>>>> ?
>>>>>
>>>>> But anyways, nice article, but nothing like designing and building one yourself and finding out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> He jumps to "in conclusion" too soon. There's capacitances to worry
>>>> about, and inductor saturation.
>>>>
>>>> I like to use a dual-winding inductor, like the DRQ series, and build
>>>> an autotransformer boost converter, which helps get high output
>>>> voltage.
>>>>
>>>
>>>The article this is from calls this dual-winding inductor boost topology
>>>"novel" but I find it hard to believe it's that novel:
>>>
>>><https://html.scirp.org/file/2-1770466x10.png>
>>
>>Just the secundary power in series, nothing new,
>>But why LK2? Not really needed.. same for LK1 if it is not coupled to anything, or is that the 'new' part?
>>
>
>They probably represent the leakage inductances in a simulation.

Would here be a market for that: 'leakage inductors' ? ;-)
I mean targeting simulations using designers.... "do
not forget the leakage inductors!" sort of commercial..
hehe

World upside down...

On 12/10/2022 6:28 am, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>
> You don't add an extra inductor.
>

Except when it makes sense to explicitly add the leakage for simulation.
A recent example I had was a three winding transformer where two
windings are bifilar very closely coupled but the third winding is
loosely coupled (because of HV clearances).

piglet

piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:ti5uj9$1dsan$1@dont-email.me:

> On 12/10/2022 6:28 am, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>>
>> You don't add an extra inductor.
>>
>
> Except when it makes sense to explicitly add the leakage for
> simulation. A recent example I had was a three winding transformer
> where two windings are bifilar very closely coupled but the third
> winding is loosely coupled (because of HV clearances).
>
> piglet
>
>

"coupling" is via the core. Volts per turn does not change because you
spaced the HV winding out a bit.

On 12/10/2022 10:52 am, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 7:41:21 PM UTC+11, erichp...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On 12/10/2022 6:28 am, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>>>
>>> You don't add an extra inductor.
>>>
>> Except when it makes sense to explicitly add the leakage for simulation.
>> A recent example I had was a three winding transformer where two
>> windings are bifilar very closely coupled but the third winding is
>> loosely coupled (because of HV clearances).
>
> You should be able to manage that with three strings
>
> L1 L2 0.99 plus L1 L3 0.8 and L2 L3 0.8
>
> We had a thread about something like this a month or so ago, and somebody tried that and it seemed to work.
>

Interesting, thanks.

piglet

On 12/10/2022 10:50 am, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
> piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:ti5uj9$1dsan$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 12/10/2022 6:28 am, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>>>
>>> You don't add an extra inductor.
>>>
>>
>> Except when it makes sense to explicitly add the leakage for
>> simulation. A recent example I had was a three winding transformer
>> where two windings are bifilar very closely coupled but the third
>> winding is loosely coupled (because of HV clearances).
>>
>> piglet
>>
>>
>
> "coupling" is via the core. Volts per turn does not change because you
> spaced the HV winding out a bit.

Agree about volts per turn but the HV winding has worse load regulation
than the tight windings

piglet

On a sunny day (Mon, 10 Oct 2022 09:30:09 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<d0i8khplkcgi9o26hq7lvbn0i2mqfi71fg@4ax.com>:

>On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 16:17:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>I have the distinct impression current civilization is sort of stuck
>>
>>or moving backward, I see things here done bad that would not have happened
>>that way in the seventies... carelessness or incompetence...
>>you are lucky if you have competent people working for you,
>>hard to find any here these days it seems.
>
>I blame Microsoft.

Indeed!!!
I got email from my US website hosting company 'godaddy' that as of tomorrow they no longer support pop email,
and move every email related thing to Microsoft, as 'everybody has a smartphone anyways'.
I phoned them, after 3 attempts I got a real person on the line
he told me it was for 'security reasons'...
Well Linux has done better at that .., and no pop email makes life difficult as everything is automatically scripted
and organized here.
Told the guy tell your boss I do not like it.
Just found a local web hosting company and will be moving everything there, Godaddy sucks now.
There will probably be a 'panteltje.net' for test and if that works OK I will move panteltje,com there too.
So, an other US company shoots itself in the foot, loses me as customer after 25 years!!! by going Microsoft.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 09:41:11 +0100, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On 12/10/2022 6:28 am, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>>
>> You don't add an extra inductor.
>>
>
>Except when it makes sense to explicitly add the leakage for simulation.
>A recent example I had was a three winding transformer where two
>windings are bifilar very closely coupled but the third winding is
>loosely coupled (because of HV clearances).
>
>piglet

Sometimes I prefer to show parasitics, like series resistances or
leakage inductances, as components in plain sight. Sometimes a value
in uH is more meaningful than a K, like in your case of a complex
transformer.

Sloman doesn't approve because he always follows rules, and doesn't
design real electronics.

We don't know what Jan's posted image represents. It's not LT Spice.

D1-C1 in Jan's schematic is interesting, as opposed to just using the
autotransformer and saving parts and diode drops.