novaBBS - sci.physics.relativity - Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=108848&group=sci.physics.relativity#108848

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:ad4:56f2:0:b0:56e:952e:23ec with SMTP id cr18-20020ad456f2000000b0056e952e23ecmr2312354qvb.2.1678746613813;
Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:30:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:57b4:0:b0:5a1:41ce:91f0 with SMTP id
g20-20020ad457b4000000b005a141ce91f0mr2325763qvx.2.1678746613659; Mon, 13 Mar
2023 15:30:13 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:30:13 -0700 (PDT)
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:1c0:c803:ab80:a8a0:bf4d:a92b:8762;
posting-account=Dg6LkgkAAABl5NRBT4_iFEO1VO77GchW
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:1c0:c803:ab80:a8a0:bf4d:a92b:8762
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2023 22:30:13 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Mon, 13 Mar 2023 22:30 UTC

Falling reaches the speed of light at the horizon.
And if there is more gravity inside that is defined
as more acceleration. BHs are theoretically invalid
because of the universal speed limit Gamma.

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=108852&group=sci.physics.relativity#108852

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity sci.physics sci.math

Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ref...@nbeoeno.cr (Fernando Bosco)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2023 23:33:20 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me>
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2023 23:33:20 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="b26b6c52a855837a016878c257b0e637";
logging-data="4184817"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19KSXQJfsTRw8euQ4ZtMgAi"
User-Agent: MesNews/1.08.06.00-gb
Cancel-Lock: sha1:AE6RFCz6ZXdxKaulpQNHa765Gq8=
Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAHlBMVEXW48o3Lis1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X-Face: "GSq#+G[Bh}?qx4tz^8)ZyH>9LBMODksF;D[@vbm?Z.j"T6sc%G3fL=Z8*|_0crT
c>-Rz=t|en>$@Ar8\Rj1]bYp,`BENaBx;(`oL)DQeSO0RS^TeT'mAOB"oB9]<(:/FF/$]n_
"2\&4ql96:~m?6MII;to[C8QS?lEw"k1}Z6(z=8=D2r>"}"78A?Y"[vY:4{Mkyp^I1)3a$>
W+Swo@$>=>^MM:k_+/V.K{ua~#-Vs*(-@/NA6-E|JKimp|vO:>{td0_(?`yxZxL,C*'[

by: Fernando Bosco - Mon, 13 Mar 2023 23:33 UTC

mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:

> Falling reaches the speed of light at the horizon. And if there is more
> gravity inside that is defined as more acceleration. BHs are
> theoretically invalid because of the universal speed limit Gamma.

here some proofs the *_social_democracy_* regimes are infact
*_national_socialist_* regimes.

Finnish PM attends funeral of Ukrainian neo-Nazi leader
https:/%2f%62%69%74%63%68%75%74%65.com/video/XdCVYgcAlzad

meanwhile in nazi ukraine the nazis rules.

You Can't Make This UP!!! Even Ukraine's RED CROSS Is Taping Children To
Poles In Lvov! https:/%2f%62%69%74%63%68%75%74%65.com/video/m6zbGuHMFfHI

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<47a9360b-8750-4978-84b1-496796617523n@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=108945&group=sci.physics.relativity#108945

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4fcb:b0:3df:97a1:75e2 with SMTP id o11-20020a05600c4fcb00b003df97a175e2mr4504162wmq.4.1678817884818;
Tue, 14 Mar 2023 11:18:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ae9:efc1:0:b0:745:8c04:2777 with SMTP id
d184-20020ae9efc1000000b007458c042777mr1681254qkg.13.1678817884300; Tue, 14
Mar 2023 11:18:04 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.alphanet.ch!alphanet.ch!news.uzoreto.com!feeder1.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweak.nl!209.85.128.88.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 11:18:04 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:1c0:c803:ab80:90ad:96a9:4069:321e;
posting-account=Dg6LkgkAAABl5NRBT4_iFEO1VO77GchW
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:1c0:c803:ab80:90ad:96a9:4069:321e
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com> <tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <47a9360b-8750-4978-84b1-496796617523n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 18:18:04 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 18:18 UTC

On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 4:33:23 PM UTC-7, Fernando Bosco wrote:
> mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Falling reaches the speed of light at the horizon. And if there is more
> > gravity inside that is defined as more acceleration. BHs are
> > theoretically invalid because of the universal speed limit Gamma.

BHs break the Gamma math motion law.
They do not exist. We are seeing red shift
look a like instead. just as FTL does not
exist.

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<965a074d-47ad-4a88-9b3a-593d910a7e17n@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=108962&group=sci.physics.relativity#108962

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:19d0:b0:3ed:2f78:e331 with SMTP id u16-20020a05600c19d000b003ed2f78e331mr619234wmq.6.1678829177669;
Tue, 14 Mar 2023 14:26:17 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:431a:0:b0:3d2:14a0:255b with SMTP id
z26-20020ac8431a000000b003d214a0255bmr924777qtm.13.1678829177122; Tue, 14 Mar
2023 14:26:17 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.128.87.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 14:26:16 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=162.195.247.210; posting-account=Y2v6DQoAAACGpOrX04JGhSdsTevCdArN
NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.195.247.210
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <965a074d-47ad-4a88-9b3a-593d910a7e17n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: film...@gmail.com (JanPB)
Injection-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 21:26:17 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

by: JanPB - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 21:26 UTC

On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 3:30:15 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> Falling reaches the speed of light at the horizon.

The speed you are referring to is a coordinate speed.

In the usual Schwarzschild coordinates this is actually false. An
object dropped radially from far away (at infinity) has the coordinate
speed, at each value of the r-coordinate (units of G = c = 1):

dr/dt = -sqrt(2M/r) * (1 - 2M/r)

....which means the Schwarzschild coordinate speed approaches ZERO at the
horizon. OTOH in, say, Gullstrand-Painlevé coordinates the coordinate
speed of such object is:

dr/dt = -sqrt(2M/r)

....so when r = 2M the speed is:

v = -1 (i.e. v = -c in MKS) and it increases further for r < 2M.

But this is just coordinate speed measured at a distance. OTOH the entire
path remains always timelike, i.e. its speed is always less than c when
using proper distances and times.

> And if there is more gravity inside that is defined
> as more acceleration. BHs are theoretically invalid
> because of the universal speed limit Gamma.

They are very likely invalid but not for that reason (which is false).

--
Jan

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<a60d1989-d1e6-4faf-9a7d-ce70bcfdf77an@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=108963&group=sci.physics.relativity#108963

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c843:0:b0:3eb:3e75:5db2 with SMTP id c3-20020a7bc843000000b003eb3e755db2mr3673487wml.2.1678829229023;
Tue, 14 Mar 2023 14:27:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:6103:0:b0:3bf:dd4c:1fcc with SMTP id
a3-20020ac86103000000b003bfdd4c1fccmr11737997qtm.9.1678829228410; Tue, 14 Mar
2023 14:27:08 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.128.87.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 14:27:08 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <47a9360b-8750-4978-84b1-496796617523n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=162.195.247.210; posting-account=Y2v6DQoAAACGpOrX04JGhSdsTevCdArN
NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.195.247.210
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
<tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me> <47a9360b-8750-4978-84b1-496796617523n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <a60d1989-d1e6-4faf-9a7d-ce70bcfdf77an@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: film...@gmail.com (JanPB)
Injection-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 21:27:09 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

by: JanPB - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 21:27 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 11:18:07 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 4:33:23 PM UTC-7, Fernando Bosco wrote:
> > mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > Falling reaches the speed of light at the horizon. And if there is more
> > > gravity inside that is defined as more acceleration. BHs are
> > > theoretically invalid because of the universal speed limit Gamma.
> BHs break the Gamma math motion law.

It doesn't. See my previous post.

> They do not exist.

Probably. But not for the reason you mentioned.

--
Jan

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<239d0bd0-2084-4952-ab97-c95064fb7af0n@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=108968&group=sci.physics.relativity#108968

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:adf:ee44:0:b0:2c9:8a3c:9fc0 with SMTP id w4-20020adfee44000000b002c98a3c9fc0mr107406wro.13.1678830108129;
Tue, 14 Mar 2023 14:41:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:4155:0:b0:3bf:d520:1d57 with SMTP id
e21-20020ac84155000000b003bfd5201d57mr10335938qtm.2.1678830107696; Tue, 14
Mar 2023 14:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.128.87.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 14:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <a60d1989-d1e6-4faf-9a7d-ce70bcfdf77an@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:1c0:c803:ab80:311e:eac6:ca68:2609;
posting-account=Dg6LkgkAAABl5NRBT4_iFEO1VO77GchW
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:1c0:c803:ab80:311e:eac6:ca68:2609
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
<tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me> <47a9360b-8750-4978-84b1-496796617523n@googlegroups.com>
<a60d1989-d1e6-4faf-9a7d-ce70bcfdf77an@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <239d0bd0-2084-4952-ab97-c95064fb7af0n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 21:41:48 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 21:41 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 2:27:11 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 11:18:07 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 4:33:23 PM UTC-7, Fernando Bosco wrote:
> > > mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Falling reaches the speed of light at the horizon. And if there is more
> > > > gravity inside that is defined as more acceleration. BHs are
> > > > theoretically invalid because of the universal speed limit Gamma.
> > BHs break the Gamma math motion law.
> It doesn't. See my previous post.

You have always lied that fall at a BH does not reache the speed of light jan.
It does reaching the event horizon...

Mitchell Raemsch
> > They do not exist.
>
> Probably. But not for the reason you mentioned.
>
> --
> Jan

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<f97ee081-fe8e-4a8a-b2d8-1637583374bbn@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=108972&group=sci.physics.relativity#108972

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:a5d:54ce:0:b0:2ce:817b:846d with SMTP id x14-20020a5d54ce000000b002ce817b846dmr128670wrv.4.1678832083155;
Tue, 14 Mar 2023 15:14:43 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:4595:0:b0:3d4:76ab:b6c9 with SMTP id
l21-20020ac84595000000b003d476abb6c9mr240032qtn.7.1678832082285; Tue, 14 Mar
2023 15:14:42 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.128.88.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 15:14:42 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <239d0bd0-2084-4952-ab97-c95064fb7af0n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=162.195.247.210; posting-account=Y2v6DQoAAACGpOrX04JGhSdsTevCdArN
NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.195.247.210
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
<tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me> <47a9360b-8750-4978-84b1-496796617523n@googlegroups.com>
<a60d1989-d1e6-4faf-9a7d-ce70bcfdf77an@googlegroups.com> <239d0bd0-2084-4952-ab97-c95064fb7af0n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <f97ee081-fe8e-4a8a-b2d8-1637583374bbn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: film...@gmail.com (JanPB)
Injection-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 22:14:43 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

by: JanPB - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 22:14 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 2:27:11 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 11:18:07 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 4:33:23 PM UTC-7, Fernando Bosco wrote:
> > > > mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Falling reaches the speed of light at the horizon. And if there is more
> > > > > gravity inside that is defined as more acceleration. BHs are
> > > > > theoretically invalid because of the universal speed limit Gamma.
> > > BHs break the Gamma math motion law.
> > It doesn't. See my previous post.
> You have always lied that fall at a BH does not reache the speed of light jan.
> It does reaching the event horizon...

I've just posted the actual formulas for the coordinate speeds. What
else do you want? You are simply incorrect, provably so. And if you
cannot understand my argument, there is really nothing I can do
at this point.

--
Jan

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<61cd25ea-d28f-40a7-8616-155b9aa06bc2n@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=108974&group=sci.physics.relativity#108974

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:3b03:b0:3eb:4cbe:1e87 with SMTP id m3-20020a05600c3b0300b003eb4cbe1e87mr1579283wms.3.1678833113323;
Tue, 14 Mar 2023 15:31:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:8209:b0:742:55f9:318c with SMTP id
ow9-20020a05620a820900b0074255f9318cmr4566054qkn.1.1678833112871; Tue, 14 Mar
2023 15:31:52 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.128.87.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 15:31:52 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <f97ee081-fe8e-4a8a-b2d8-1637583374bbn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:1c0:c803:ab80:311e:eac6:ca68:2609;
posting-account=Dg6LkgkAAABl5NRBT4_iFEO1VO77GchW
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:1c0:c803:ab80:311e:eac6:ca68:2609
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
<tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me> <47a9360b-8750-4978-84b1-496796617523n@googlegroups.com>
<a60d1989-d1e6-4faf-9a7d-ce70bcfdf77an@googlegroups.com> <239d0bd0-2084-4952-ab97-c95064fb7af0n@googlegroups.com>
<f97ee081-fe8e-4a8a-b2d8-1637583374bbn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <61cd25ea-d28f-40a7-8616-155b9aa06bc2n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 22:31:53 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 22:31 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:14:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 2:27:11 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 11:18:07 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 4:33:23 PM UTC-7, Fernando Bosco wrote:
> > > > > mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Falling reaches the speed of light at the horizon. And if there is more
> > > > > > gravity inside that is defined as more acceleration. BHs are
> > > > > > theoretically invalid because of the universal speed limit Gamma.
> > > > BHs break the Gamma math motion law.
> > > It doesn't. See my previous post.
> > You have always lied that fall at a BH does not reache the speed of light jan.
> > It does reaching the event horizon...
> I've just posted the actual formulas for the coordinate speeds. What
> else do you want?

For you to stop pretending that you prove relativity.
It has never been.

Mitchell Raemsch
> --
> Jan

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<d3f24601-6345-4261-a278-39cf854131d8n@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=108979&group=sci.physics.relativity#108979

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6dc5:0:b0:2cf:e44a:54a3 with SMTP id d5-20020a5d6dc5000000b002cfe44a54a3mr136802wrz.5.1678833625911;
Tue, 14 Mar 2023 15:40:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5612:0:b0:3d3:a91f:86bc with SMTP id
18-20020ac85612000000b003d3a91f86bcmr651843qtr.8.1678833625131; Tue, 14 Mar
2023 15:40:25 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.128.88.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 15:40:24 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <61cd25ea-d28f-40a7-8616-155b9aa06bc2n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=162.195.247.210; posting-account=Y2v6DQoAAACGpOrX04JGhSdsTevCdArN
NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.195.247.210
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
<tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me> <47a9360b-8750-4978-84b1-496796617523n@googlegroups.com>
<a60d1989-d1e6-4faf-9a7d-ce70bcfdf77an@googlegroups.com> <239d0bd0-2084-4952-ab97-c95064fb7af0n@googlegroups.com>
<f97ee081-fe8e-4a8a-b2d8-1637583374bbn@googlegroups.com> <61cd25ea-d28f-40a7-8616-155b9aa06bc2n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <d3f24601-6345-4261-a278-39cf854131d8n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: film...@gmail.com (JanPB)
Injection-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 22:40:25 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

by: JanPB - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 22:40 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:31:56 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:14:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 2:27:11 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 11:18:07 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 4:33:23 PM UTC-7, Fernando Bosco wrote:
> > > > > > mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Falling reaches the speed of light at the horizon. And if there is more
> > > > > > > gravity inside that is defined as more acceleration. BHs are
> > > > > > > theoretically invalid because of the universal speed limit Gamma.
> > > > > BHs break the Gamma math motion law.
> > > > It doesn't. See my previous post.
> > > You have always lied that fall at a BH does not reache the speed of light jan.
> > > It does reaching the event horizon...
> > I've just posted the actual formulas for the coordinate speeds. What
> > else do you want?
> For you to stop pretending that you prove relativity.

I never pretended any such thing (no physics theory can be "proved", for
starters). I simply pointed out that your claim about an object speed at
the BH horizon referred to its *coordinate* speed, hence could not
be used as an invalidation of the speed of light limit.

--
Jan

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<7bdaca06-343c-42f4-85c8-7da6fad4cfd8n@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=108982&group=sci.physics.relativity#108982

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:adf:f851:0:b0:2ce:a895:e9d6 with SMTP id d17-20020adff851000000b002cea895e9d6mr116536wrq.11.1678833833531;
Tue, 14 Mar 2023 15:43:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:435e:0:b0:3d2:ed05:48fa with SMTP id
a30-20020ac8435e000000b003d2ed0548famr857957qtn.4.1678833833094; Tue, 14 Mar
2023 15:43:53 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.128.88.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 15:43:52 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <d3f24601-6345-4261-a278-39cf854131d8n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:1c0:c803:ab80:311e:eac6:ca68:2609;
posting-account=Dg6LkgkAAABl5NRBT4_iFEO1VO77GchW
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:1c0:c803:ab80:311e:eac6:ca68:2609
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
<tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me> <47a9360b-8750-4978-84b1-496796617523n@googlegroups.com>
<a60d1989-d1e6-4faf-9a7d-ce70bcfdf77an@googlegroups.com> <239d0bd0-2084-4952-ab97-c95064fb7af0n@googlegroups.com>
<f97ee081-fe8e-4a8a-b2d8-1637583374bbn@googlegroups.com> <61cd25ea-d28f-40a7-8616-155b9aa06bc2n@googlegroups.com>
<d3f24601-6345-4261-a278-39cf854131d8n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <7bdaca06-343c-42f4-85c8-7da6fad4cfd8n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 22:43:53 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 22:43 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:40:28 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:31:56 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:14:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 2:27:11 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 11:18:07 AM UTC-7, mitchr....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 4:33:23 PM UTC-7, Fernando Bosco wrote:
> > > > > > > mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Falling reaches the speed of light at the horizon. And if there is more
> > > > > > > > gravity inside that is defined as more acceleration. BHs are
> > > > > > > > theoretically invalid because of the universal speed limit Gamma.
> > > > > > BHs break the Gamma math motion law.
> > > > > It doesn't. See my previous post.
> > > > You have always lied that fall at a BH does not reache the speed of light jan.
> > > > It does reaching the event horizon...
> > > I've just posted the actual formulas for the coordinate speeds. What
> > > else do you want?
> > For you to stop pretending that you prove relativity.
> I never pretended any such thing (no physics theory can be "proved", for
> starters). I simply pointed out that your claim about an object speed at
> the BH horizon referred to its *coordinate* speed, hence could not
> be used as an invalidation of the speed of light limit.

You say speed quantity is not a speed?
Your lie has been that BH theory does not violate motion laws...
It does.

>
> --
> Jan

You are a pretender jan... keep it up...

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<f4729f4a-e769-4af9-8309-b7574d48d186n@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=108994&group=sci.physics.relativity#108994

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4753:b0:3df:97cf:4590 with SMTP id w19-20020a05600c475300b003df97cf4590mr4892526wmo.3.1678845046388;
Tue, 14 Mar 2023 18:50:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a37:e204:0:b0:742:32aa:92be with SMTP id
g4-20020a37e204000000b0074232aa92bemr3938518qki.13.1678845045824; Tue, 14 Mar
2023 18:50:45 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.128.88.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 18:50:45 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <7bdaca06-343c-42f4-85c8-7da6fad4cfd8n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=162.195.247.210; posting-account=Y2v6DQoAAACGpOrX04JGhSdsTevCdArN
NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.195.247.210
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
<tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me> <47a9360b-8750-4978-84b1-496796617523n@googlegroups.com>
<a60d1989-d1e6-4faf-9a7d-ce70bcfdf77an@googlegroups.com> <239d0bd0-2084-4952-ab97-c95064fb7af0n@googlegroups.com>
<f97ee081-fe8e-4a8a-b2d8-1637583374bbn@googlegroups.com> <61cd25ea-d28f-40a7-8616-155b9aa06bc2n@googlegroups.com>
<d3f24601-6345-4261-a278-39cf854131d8n@googlegroups.com> <7bdaca06-343c-42f4-85c8-7da6fad4cfd8n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <f4729f4a-e769-4af9-8309-b7574d48d186n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: film...@gmail.com (JanPB)
Injection-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 01:50:46 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

by: JanPB - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 01:50 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:43:56 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:40:28 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:31:56 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:14:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 2:27:11 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 11:18:07 AM UTC-7, mitchr....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 4:33:23 PM UTC-7, Fernando Bosco wrote:
> > > > > > > > mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Falling reaches the speed of light at the horizon. And if there is more
> > > > > > > > > gravity inside that is defined as more acceleration. BHs are
> > > > > > > > > theoretically invalid because of the universal speed limit Gamma.
> > > > > > > BHs break the Gamma math motion law.
> > > > > > It doesn't. See my previous post.
> > > > > You have always lied that fall at a BH does not reache the speed of light jan.
> > > > > It does reaching the event horizon...
> > > > I've just posted the actual formulas for the coordinate speeds. What
> > > > else do you want?
> > > For you to stop pretending that you prove relativity.
> > I never pretended any such thing (no physics theory can be "proved", for
> > starters). I simply pointed out that your claim about an object speed at
> > the BH horizon referred to its *coordinate* speed, hence could not
> > be used as an invalidation of the speed of light limit.
> You say speed quantity is not a speed?

No, reading comprehension problems on your part again.
I said that *coordinate* speed could not be used to invalidate
relativity.

For example: you turn your head 90 degrees to the left. In that
split second the Andromeda galaxy has jumped to the right at
a speed far exceeding that of light according to the coordinates
in which your head is at rest.

> Your lie has been that BH theory does not violate motion laws...
> It does.

It doesn't. Get over it. It's a trivial objection that you've made,
it would have been noticed in 1905 had it been valid.

--
Jan

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<47ba8384-e44a-44aa-a0c0-6e0c6ccf3906n@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=108995&group=sci.physics.relativity#108995

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:54cd:b0:3ed:23ec:3268 with SMTP id iw13-20020a05600c54cd00b003ed23ec3268mr2578625wmb.2.1678845960976;
Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:06:00 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:55c8:0:b0:5a3:c23e:d4c4 with SMTP id
bt8-20020ad455c8000000b005a3c23ed4c4mr2857463qvb.6.1678845960513; Tue, 14 Mar
2023 19:06:00 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.128.87.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:06:00 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <f4729f4a-e769-4af9-8309-b7574d48d186n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=73.67.155.209; posting-account=Dg6LkgkAAABl5NRBT4_iFEO1VO77GchW
NNTP-Posting-Host: 73.67.155.209
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
<tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me> <47a9360b-8750-4978-84b1-496796617523n@googlegroups.com>
<a60d1989-d1e6-4faf-9a7d-ce70bcfdf77an@googlegroups.com> <239d0bd0-2084-4952-ab97-c95064fb7af0n@googlegroups.com>
<f97ee081-fe8e-4a8a-b2d8-1637583374bbn@googlegroups.com> <61cd25ea-d28f-40a7-8616-155b9aa06bc2n@googlegroups.com>
<d3f24601-6345-4261-a278-39cf854131d8n@googlegroups.com> <7bdaca06-343c-42f4-85c8-7da6fad4cfd8n@googlegroups.com>
<f4729f4a-e769-4af9-8309-b7574d48d186n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <47ba8384-e44a-44aa-a0c0-6e0c6ccf3906n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 02:06:00 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 02:06 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 6:50:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:43:56 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:40:28 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:31:56 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:14:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 2:27:11 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 11:18:07 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 4:33:23 PM UTC-7, Fernando Bosco wrote:
> > > > > > > > > mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Falling reaches the speed of light at the horizon. And if there is more
> > > > > > > > > > gravity inside that is defined as more acceleration. BHs are
> > > > > > > > > > theoretically invalid because of the universal speed limit Gamma.
> > > > > > > > BHs break the Gamma math motion law.
> > > > > > > It doesn't. See my previous post.
> > > > > > You have always lied that fall at a BH does not reache the speed of light jan.
> > > > > > It does reaching the event horizon...
> > > > > I've just posted the actual formulas for the coordinate speeds. What
> > > > > else do you want?
> > > > For you to stop pretending that you prove relativity.
> > > I never pretended any such thing (no physics theory can be "proved", for
> > > starters). I simply pointed out that your claim about an object speed at
> > > the BH horizon referred to its *coordinate* speed, hence could not
> > > be used as an invalidation of the speed of light limit.
> > You say speed quantity is not a speed?
> No, reading comprehension problems on your part again.
> I said that *coordinate* speed could not be used to invalidate
> relativity.
>
> For example: you turn your head 90 degrees to the left. In that
> split second the Andromeda galaxy has jumped to the right at
> a speed far exceeding that of light according to the coordinates
> in which your head is at rest.
> > Your lie has been that BH theory does not violate motion laws...
> > It does.
> It doesn't. Get over it. It's a trivial objection that you've made,
> it would have been noticed in 1905 had it been valid.
>
> --
> Jan

How trivial is it now jan?
Kip Thorne Pointed out fall reaches light speed
so what you say isn't real.
What is the reality? if science says you
are wrong?

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<dd509cca-f547-4ebb-9bdd-6d4c1e8a988an@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=108996&group=sci.physics.relativity#108996

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:a5d:58ee:0:b0:2ce:a822:a162 with SMTP id f14-20020a5d58ee000000b002cea822a162mr224370wrd.8.1678846330680;
Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:12:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:906:b0:5a5:b7dd:e431 with SMTP id
dj6-20020a056214090600b005a5b7dde431mr2464816qvb.1.1678846330182; Tue, 14 Mar
2023 19:12:10 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.uzoreto.com!peer01.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!feeder1.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweak.nl!209.85.128.88.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:12:09 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <d3f24601-6345-4261-a278-39cf854131d8n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=184.160.32.227; posting-account=BHsbrQoAAAANJj6HqXJ987nOEDAC1EsJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 184.160.32.227
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
<tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me> <47a9360b-8750-4978-84b1-496796617523n@googlegroups.com>
<a60d1989-d1e6-4faf-9a7d-ce70bcfdf77an@googlegroups.com> <239d0bd0-2084-4952-ab97-c95064fb7af0n@googlegroups.com>
<f97ee081-fe8e-4a8a-b2d8-1637583374bbn@googlegroups.com> <61cd25ea-d28f-40a7-8616-155b9aa06bc2n@googlegroups.com>
<d3f24601-6345-4261-a278-39cf854131d8n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <dd509cca-f547-4ebb-9bdd-6d4c1e8a988an@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: rot...@gmail.com (rotchm)
Injection-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 02:12:10 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 1983

by: rotchm - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 02:12 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 6:40:28 PM UTC-4, JanPB wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:31:56 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:

He is trolling you, as always.
You got got.

DO NOT STROKE THE TROLLS
Report them as spam instead.

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<cdc42aac-bf59-4676-9624-082e2663bfa2n@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=108997&group=sci.physics.relativity#108997

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:adf:ecd0:0:b0:2ce:a8a1:f2a9 with SMTP id s16-20020adfecd0000000b002cea8a1f2a9mr215997wro.12.1678846850069;
Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:20:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:8c9:b0:56e:f63b:634e with SMTP id
da9-20020a05621408c900b0056ef63b634emr3571998qvb.6.1678846849612; Tue, 14 Mar
2023 19:20:49 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.uzoreto.com!peer02.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!peer02.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!feeder1.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweak.nl!209.85.128.87.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:20:49 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <dd509cca-f547-4ebb-9bdd-6d4c1e8a988an@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=73.67.155.209; posting-account=Dg6LkgkAAABl5NRBT4_iFEO1VO77GchW
NNTP-Posting-Host: 73.67.155.209
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
<tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me> <47a9360b-8750-4978-84b1-496796617523n@googlegroups.com>
<a60d1989-d1e6-4faf-9a7d-ce70bcfdf77an@googlegroups.com> <239d0bd0-2084-4952-ab97-c95064fb7af0n@googlegroups.com>
<f97ee081-fe8e-4a8a-b2d8-1637583374bbn@googlegroups.com> <61cd25ea-d28f-40a7-8616-155b9aa06bc2n@googlegroups.com>
<d3f24601-6345-4261-a278-39cf854131d8n@googlegroups.com> <dd509cca-f547-4ebb-9bdd-6d4c1e8a988an@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <cdc42aac-bf59-4676-9624-082e2663bfa2n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 02:20:50 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2424

by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 02:20 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 7:12:13 PM UTC-7, rotchm wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 6:40:28 PM UTC-4, JanPB wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:31:56 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail..com wrote:
> He is trolling you, as always.
> You got got.
>
> DO NOT STROKE THE TROLLS
> Report them as spam instead.

What are you wanting to protect her from crotch?
by what do you want to be involved
in my thread's argument?

Fall reaching light speed is why BH theory is
disproven. It could have been along time ago...
But It was overlooked instead...

Mitchell Raemsch

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<680e4d03-181b-4cb8-8a36-72a12b992cd1n@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=109120&group=sci.physics.relativity#109120

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5995:0:b0:3bf:ba90:6c4e with SMTP id e21-20020ac85995000000b003bfba906c4emr234371qte.6.1678908528219;
Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:28:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4e64:0:b0:5ab:77e0:422b with SMTP id
ec4-20020ad44e64000000b005ab77e0422bmr1951552qvb.1.1678908527915; Wed, 15 Mar
2023 12:28:47 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fdn.fr!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:28:47 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <47ba8384-e44a-44aa-a0c0-6e0c6ccf3906n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=162.195.247.210; posting-account=Y2v6DQoAAACGpOrX04JGhSdsTevCdArN
NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.195.247.210
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
<tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me> <47a9360b-8750-4978-84b1-496796617523n@googlegroups.com>
<a60d1989-d1e6-4faf-9a7d-ce70bcfdf77an@googlegroups.com> <239d0bd0-2084-4952-ab97-c95064fb7af0n@googlegroups.com>
<f97ee081-fe8e-4a8a-b2d8-1637583374bbn@googlegroups.com> <61cd25ea-d28f-40a7-8616-155b9aa06bc2n@googlegroups.com>
<d3f24601-6345-4261-a278-39cf854131d8n@googlegroups.com> <7bdaca06-343c-42f4-85c8-7da6fad4cfd8n@googlegroups.com>
<f4729f4a-e769-4af9-8309-b7574d48d186n@googlegroups.com> <47ba8384-e44a-44aa-a0c0-6e0c6ccf3906n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <680e4d03-181b-4cb8-8a36-72a12b992cd1n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: film...@gmail.com (JanPB)
Injection-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:28:48 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

by: JanPB - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:28 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 7:06:03 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 6:50:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:43:56 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:40:28 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:31:56 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:14:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-7, mitchr....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 2:27:11 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 11:18:07 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 4:33:23 PM UTC-7, Fernando Bosco wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Falling reaches the speed of light at the horizon. And if there is more
> > > > > > > > > > > gravity inside that is defined as more acceleration. BHs are
> > > > > > > > > > > theoretically invalid because of the universal speed limit Gamma.
> > > > > > > > > BHs break the Gamma math motion law.
> > > > > > > > It doesn't. See my previous post.
> > > > > > > You have always lied that fall at a BH does not reache the speed of light jan.
> > > > > > > It does reaching the event horizon...
> > > > > > I've just posted the actual formulas for the coordinate speeds. What
> > > > > > else do you want?
> > > > > For you to stop pretending that you prove relativity.
> > > > I never pretended any such thing (no physics theory can be "proved", for
> > > > starters). I simply pointed out that your claim about an object speed at
> > > > the BH horizon referred to its *coordinate* speed, hence could not
> > > > be used as an invalidation of the speed of light limit.
> > > You say speed quantity is not a speed?
> > No, reading comprehension problems on your part again.
> > I said that *coordinate* speed could not be used to invalidate
> > relativity.
> >
> > For example: you turn your head 90 degrees to the left. In that
> > split second the Andromeda galaxy has jumped to the right at
> > a speed far exceeding that of light according to the coordinates
> > in which your head is at rest.
> > > Your lie has been that BH theory does not violate motion laws...
> > > It does.
> > It doesn't. Get over it. It's a trivial objection that you've made,
> > it would have been noticed in 1905 had it been valid.
> >
> > --
> > Jan
> How trivial is it now jan?
> Kip Thorne Pointed out fall reaches light speed
> so what you say isn't real.

It does in certain coordinates, like Eddington-Finkelstein, etc.
It does not in the others, like Schwarzschild's.

In relativity there is no such thing as simultaneity at a distance,
remember? That's why speed measured at a distance is not
an absolute thing in GR, it depends how you set up your coordinates.

> What is the reality? if science says you
> are wrong?

It doesn't say that. Just stop making stuff up and you'll be OK.

--
Jan

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<5c31f3d9-5368-45e2-8dd0-f9c461298464n@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=109122&group=sci.physics.relativity#109122

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:74a:b0:71f:b8ba:ff4c with SMTP id i10-20020a05620a074a00b0071fb8baff4cmr5605307qki.10.1678908787252;
Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:33:07 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:5c:b0:733:4e2d:7834 with SMTP id
t28-20020a05620a005c00b007334e2d7834mr5620013qkt.4.1678908786984; Wed, 15 Mar
2023 12:33:06 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:33:06 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <cdc42aac-bf59-4676-9624-082e2663bfa2n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=162.195.247.210; posting-account=Y2v6DQoAAACGpOrX04JGhSdsTevCdArN
NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.195.247.210
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com>
<tuobrv$3vmnh$1@dont-email.me> <47a9360b-8750-4978-84b1-496796617523n@googlegroups.com>
<a60d1989-d1e6-4faf-9a7d-ce70bcfdf77an@googlegroups.com> <239d0bd0-2084-4952-ab97-c95064fb7af0n@googlegroups.com>
<f97ee081-fe8e-4a8a-b2d8-1637583374bbn@googlegroups.com> <61cd25ea-d28f-40a7-8616-155b9aa06bc2n@googlegroups.com>
<d3f24601-6345-4261-a278-39cf854131d8n@googlegroups.com> <dd509cca-f547-4ebb-9bdd-6d4c1e8a988an@googlegroups.com>
<cdc42aac-bf59-4676-9624-082e2663bfa2n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <5c31f3d9-5368-45e2-8dd0-f9c461298464n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: film...@gmail.com (JanPB)
Injection-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:33:07 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3038

by: JanPB - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:33 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 7:20:53 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 7:12:13 PM UTC-7, rotchm wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 6:40:28 PM UTC-4, JanPB wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:31:56 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > He is trolling you, as always.
> > You got got.
> >
> > DO NOT STROKE THE TROLLS
> > Report them as spam instead.
> What are you wanting to protect her from crotch?
> by what do you want to be involved
> in my thread's argument?
>
> Fall reaching light speed is why BH theory is
> disproven.

It's not. I posted exact formulas here for an object falling
radially from infinity. At alkl times the object's trajectory
is timelike which means there is no faster than light
speed. The only thing there is is that observers outside
the BH can set up their coordinates in many different reasonable
ways (with the faraway limit equal to the standard Minkowski
coordinates), each of which predicting a different speed
measured by using those coordinates of an object about
to cross the horizon.

> It could have been along time ago...
> But It was overlooked instead...

Nothing was overlooked. Stop assuming everyone is an idiot.

--
Jan

Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

<a9a04c76-9df9-462a-b297-efa56657b539n@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=109125&group=sci.physics.relativity#109125

copy link Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:a44:b0:745:d589:3301 with SMTP id j4-20020a05620a0a4400b00745d5893301mr1447266qka.12.1678909187470;
Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:39:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1e05:b0:3b7:fda5:1cc4 with SMTP id
br5-20020a05622a1e0500b003b7fda51cc4mr243889qtb.13.1678909187303; Wed, 15 Mar
2023 12:39:47 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:39:46 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <965a074d-47ad-4a88-9b3a-593d910a7e17n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=89.206.14.16; posting-account=I3DWzAoAAACOmZUdDcZ-C0PqAZGVsbW0
NNTP-Posting-Host: 89.206.14.16
References: <14e096a7-9990-473c-9ce1-1829bfb9d0d6n@googlegroups.com> <965a074d-47ad-4a88-9b3a-593d910a7e17n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <a9a04c76-9df9-462a-b297-efa56657b539n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
Injection-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:39:47 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

by: Maciej Wozniak - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:39 UTC

On Tuesday, 14 March 2023 at 22:26:20 UTC+1, JanPB wrote:
> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 3:30:15 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Falling reaches the speed of light at the horizon.
> The speed you are referring to is a coordinate speed.
>
> In the usual Schwarzschild coordinates this is actually false. An
> object dropped radially from far away (at infinity) has the coordinate
> speed, at each value of the r-coordinate (units of G = c = 1):
>
> dr/dt = -sqrt(2M/r) * (1 - 2M/r)
>
> ...which means the Schwarzschild coordinate speed approaches ZERO at the
> horizon. OTOH in, say, Gullstrand-Painlevé coordinates the coordinate
> speed of such object is:
>
> dr/dt = -sqrt(2M/r)
>
> ...so when r = 2M the speed is:
>
> v = -1 (i.e. v = -c in MKS) and it increases further for r < 2M.
>
> But this is just coordinate speed measured at a distance. OTOH the entire
> path remains always timelike, i.e. its speed is always less than c when
> using proper distances and times.

And in the meantime in the real world, improper clocks
keep measuring improper t'=t.

Premature optimization is the root of all evil. -- D. E. Knuth

tech / sci.physics.relativity / Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon

Subject	Author
Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	mitchr...@gmail.com
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	Fernando Bosco
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	mitchr...@gmail.com
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	JanPB
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	mitchr...@gmail.com
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	JanPB
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	mitchr...@gmail.com
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	JanPB
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	mitchr...@gmail.com
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	JanPB
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	mitchr...@gmail.com
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	JanPB
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	rotchm
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	mitchr...@gmail.com
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	JanPB
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	JanPB
Re: Black holes break the speed limit Gamma law at the event horizon	Maciej Wozniak