novaBBS - sci.physics.relativity - What about mass curves space?

What about mass curves space?

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Subject: What about mass curves space?
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
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by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 22:37 UTC

Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?

Mitchell Raemsch

Re: What about mass curves space?

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: film...@gmail.com (JanPB)
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by: JanPB - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 22:41 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?

We don't know.

--
Jan

Re: What about mass curves space?

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
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by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 22:46 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> We don't know.

Why would you believe something you don't know?
You must have some reason.

>
> --
> Jan

Re: What about mass curves space?

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From: r.hac...@frite.fr (Richard Hachel)

by: Richard Hachel - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 22:46 UTC

Le 14/03/2023 à 23:37, "mitchr...@gmail.com" a écrit :
> Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
>
> Mitchell Raemsch

Einstein was mad.

"Les masses courbent l'espace avec leurs petits doigts musclés".

J'ai jamais compris comment les petits doigts musclés des masses
pouvaient s'agripper au vide...

R.H.

Re: What about mass curves space?

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: film...@gmail.com (JanPB)
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by: JanPB - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 01:46 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> > We don't know.
> Why would you believe something you don't know?
> You must have some reason.

You really should work on your reading comprehension. This
is the second time in a couple of days that you distorted
the content of simple English sentences.

I said: "We don't know" how the mass curves space.

It doesn't mean that the theory has no merit.

For example: people started counting quantities of heat
before they even knew what heat was.

--
Jan

Re: What about mass curves space?

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
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by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 02:26 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 6:46:39 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> > > We don't know.
> > Why would you believe something you don't know?
> > You must have some reason.
> You really should work on your reading comprehension. This
> is the second time in a couple of days that you distorted
> the content of simple English sentences.
>
> I said: "We don't know" how the mass curves space.
Yes. You don't know if it is right...
where is your proof if it does not go all of the way?

> It doesn't mean that the theory has no merit.

If it can't go all of the way anymore how can it have merit?

Mitchell Raemsch
>
> For example: people started counting quantities of heat
> before they even knew what heat was.
>
> --
> Jan

Re: What about mass curves space?

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
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by: whodat - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 03:25 UTC

On 3/14/2023 8:46 PM, JanPB wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
>>> We don't know.
>> Why would you believe something you don't know?
>> You must have some reason.
>
> You really should work on your reading comprehension. This
> is the second time in a couple of days that you distorted
> the content of simple English sentences.
>
> I said: "We don't know" how the mass curves space.

This is pretty much the same as saying "we don't know why."

There are lots and lots of those in science. Science doesn't
even attempt to explain the "why" of anythin. All we have
is reports and predictions of "how" things work. Anything
beyond that is metaphysics, regardless of the particular
discipline.

To complete this reply, though Jan did a good job, the
question arises about how Mitch is alive, or even why. There
is no question about the fact, the "how" and "why" become
irrelevant just as it does regarding the curvature of space
by mass. It happens. When one is able to speak with the
creator, one can hope for cogent answers.

> It doesn't mean that the theory has no merit.
>
> For example: people started counting quantities of heat
> before they even knew what heat was.

Re: What about mass curves space?

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
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by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 03:53 UTC

"We don't know why" assumes that it is right first whoda...
It has never been proven to be right... first of all...

Mitchell Raemsch
>
> There are lots and lots of those in science. Science doesn't
> even attempt to explain the "why" of anythin.
Then what is its value?
It is an excuse to say asking why isn't a part of science.

Then how does science know anything?

> All we have
> is reports and predictions of "how" things work. Anything
> beyond that is metaphysics, regardless of the particular
> discipline.
>
> To complete this reply, though Jan did a good job, the
> question arises about how Mitch is alive, or even why. There
> is no question about the fact, the "how" and "why" become
> irrelevant just as it does regarding the curvature of space
> by mass. It happens.
How does it curve time?
No. God creates gravity.
not mass...

Mitchell Raemsch
> When one is able to speak with the
> creator, one can hope for cogent answers.
> > It doesn't mean that the theory has no merit.
> >
> > For example: people started counting quantities of heat
> > before they even knew what heat was.

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
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by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 04:17 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 8:26:03 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
> On 3/14/2023 8:46 PM, JanPB wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail..com wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> >>> We don't know.
> >> Why would you believe something you don't know?
> >> You must have some reason.
> >
> > You really should work on your reading comprehension. This
> > is the second time in a couple of days that you distorted
> > the content of simple English sentences.
> >
> > I said: "We don't know" how the mass curves space.
> This is pretty much the same as saying "we don't know why."
>
> There are lots and lots of those in science. Science doesn't
> even attempt to explain the "why" of anythin. All we have
> is reports and predictions of "how" things work. Anything
> beyond that is metaphysics, regardless of the particular
> discipline.
>
> To complete this reply, though Jan did a good job, the
> question arises about how Mitch is alive, or even why. There
> is no question about the fact, the "how" and "why" become
> irrelevant just as it does regarding the curvature of space
> by mass. It happens. When one is able to speak with the
> creator, one can hope for cogent answers.
> > It doesn't mean that the theory has no merit.
> >
> > For example: people started counting quantities of heat
> > before they even knew what heat was.

Why does science say a why is irrelevant?
You are avoiding the why of why we are here.
Is it because God created man?
and science didn't?

Re: What about mass curves space?

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: film...@gmail.com (JanPB)
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by: JanPB - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:23 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 7:26:05 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 6:46:39 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> > > > We don't know.
> > > Why would you believe something you don't know?
> > > You must have some reason.
> > You really should work on your reading comprehension. This
> > is the second time in a couple of days that you distorted
> > the content of simple English sentences.
> >
> > I said: "We don't know" how the mass curves space.
>
> Yes. You don't know if it is right...
> where is your proof if it does not go all of the way?

This is how science has always worked. It's not a means
to perfect knowledge or omniscience.

> > It doesn't mean that the theory has no merit.
>
> If it can't go all of the way anymore how can it have merit?

Same way as all other physics theories. None of them provides
the "one true" explanation for anything. I don't know why you are
barking atrelativity here, since the entirety of physics has always
been like that. The entirety of science. Again: people counted
(correctly) the amounts of heat before they even had a workable
model of what heat was. People had the least action principle
before they even had a model for why such a thing would work
in the first place. It's same currently with GR: we know the
exact correlation between energy-momentum flux and spacetime
curvature but we don't have a workable model of that interaction
yet. This in no way invalidates GR, just like in the old days
counting the amount of heat yielded perfectly valid results, as
did the principle of least action in Maupertuis' and Euler's day.

--
Jan

Re: What about mass curves space?

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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by: Maciej Wozniak - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:28 UTC

On Wednesday, 15 March 2023 at 19:23:47 UTC+1, JanPB wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 7:26:05 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 6:46:39 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> > > > > We don't know.
> > > > Why would you believe something you don't know?
> > > > You must have some reason.
> > > You really should work on your reading comprehension. This
> > > is the second time in a couple of days that you distorted
> > > the content of simple English sentences.
> > >
> > > I said: "We don't know" how the mass curves space.
> >
> > Yes. You don't know if it is right...
> > where is your proof if it does not go all of the way?
> This is how science has always worked. It's not a means
> to perfect knowledge or omniscience.
> > > It doesn't mean that the theory has no merit.
> >
> > If it can't go all of the way anymore how can it have merit?
> Same way as all other physics theories. None of them provides
> the "one true" explanation for anything. I don't know why you are
> barking atrelativity here, since the entirety of physics has always
> been like that. The entirety of science. Again: people counted
> (correctly) the amounts of heat before they even had a workable
> model of what heat was. People had the least action principle
> before they even had a model for why such a thing would work
> in the first place. It's same currently with GR: we know the
> exact correlation between energy-momentum flux and spacetime
> curvature but

But in the meantime in the real world forbidden by
your bunch of idiots improper clocks keep measuring
t'=t in forbidden by your bunch of idiots improper
seconds.

Re: What about mass curves space?

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: l.c.cros...@hotmail.com (Laurence Clark Crossen)
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by: Laurence Clark Cross - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:36 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitch wrote:
> Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
>
> Mitchell Raemsch
Mass doesn't curve space. That would involve the reification fallacy, so the idea of curved space is pseudoscience. Tesla rightly dismissed relativity, saying space doesn't curve. What more do you need? The idea of curved space pretends to give the cause of gravity and fails.

Re: What about mass curves space?

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: l.c.cros...@hotmail.com (Laurence Clark Crossen)
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by: Laurence Clark Cross - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:39 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 8:53:32 PM UTC-7, mitchr. wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 8:26:03 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
> > On 3/14/2023 8:46 PM, JanPB wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > >>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>> Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> > >>> We don't know.
> > >> Why would you believe something you don't know?
> > >> You must have some reason.
> > >
> > > You really should work on your reading comprehension. This
> > > is the second time in a couple of days that you distorted
> > > the content of simple English sentences.
> > >
> > > I said: "We don't know" how the mass curves space.
> > This is pretty much the same as saying "we don't know why."
> "We don't know why" assumes that it is right first whoda...
> It has never been proven to be right... first of all...
>
> Mitchell Raemsch
> >
> > There are lots and lots of those in science. Science doesn't
> > even attempt to explain the "why" of anythin.
> Then what is its value?
> It is an excuse to say asking why isn't a part of science.
>
> Then how does science know anything?
> > All we have
> > is reports and predictions of "how" things work. Anything
> > beyond that is metaphysics, regardless of the particular
> > discipline.
> >
> > To complete this reply, though Jan did a good job, the
> > question arises about how Mitch is alive, or even why. There
> > is no question about the fact, the "how" and "why" become
> > irrelevant just as it does regarding the curvature of space
> > by mass. It happens.
> How does it curve time?
> No. God creates gravity.
> not mass...
>
> Mitchell Raemsch
> > When one is able to speak with the
> > creator, one can hope for cogent answers.
> > > It doesn't mean that the theory has no merit.
> > >
> > > For example: people started counting quantities of heat
> > > before they even knew what heat was.
Relativity functions as an ideology, so it can't be questioned ["The Ideology of Relativity: The Case of the Clock Paradox" Peter Hayes 2009].

Re: What about mass curves space?

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by: Laurence Clark Cross - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:41 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 9:17:27 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 8:26:03 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
> > On 3/14/2023 8:46 PM, JanPB wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > >>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>> Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> > >>> We don't know.
> > >> Why would you believe something you don't know?
> > >> You must have some reason.
> > >
> > > You really should work on your reading comprehension. This
> > > is the second time in a couple of days that you distorted
> > > the content of simple English sentences.
> > >
> > > I said: "We don't know" how the mass curves space.
> > This is pretty much the same as saying "we don't know why."
> >
> > There are lots and lots of those in science. Science doesn't
> > even attempt to explain the "why" of anythin. All we have
> > is reports and predictions of "how" things work. Anything
> > beyond that is metaphysics, regardless of the particular
> > discipline.
> >
> > To complete this reply, though Jan did a good job, the
> > question arises about how Mitch is alive, or even why. There
> > is no question about the fact, the "how" and "why" become
> > irrelevant just as it does regarding the curvature of space
> > by mass. It happens. When one is able to speak with the
> > creator, one can hope for cogent answers.
> > > It doesn't mean that the theory has no merit.
> > >
> > > For example: people started counting quantities of heat
> > > before they even knew what heat was.
> Why does science say a why is irrelevant?
> You are avoiding the why of why we are here.
> Is it because God created man?
> and science didn't?
Science does not say the why is irrelevant. Ideology says don't ask questions. Science frequently concerns itself with physical causes, but gravity is hard to understand. Relativity doesn't explain anything about it.

Re: What about mass curves space?

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
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by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:47 UTC

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 11:23:47 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 7:26:05 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 6:46:39 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> > > > > We don't know.
> > > > Why would you believe something you don't know?
> > > > You must have some reason.
> > > You really should work on your reading comprehension. This
> > > is the second time in a couple of days that you distorted
> > > the content of simple English sentences.
> > >
> > > I said: "We don't know" how the mass curves space.
> >
> > Yes. You don't know if it is right...
> > where is your proof if it does not go all of the way?
> This is how science has always worked. It's not a means
> to perfect knowledge or omniscience.

Science has never worked all of the way jan.
Einstein was the first to say it.
You lie about questions that show science
has not succeeded. Science can be beat.
Where it pretends...
And I mean you janny.

> > > It doesn't mean that the theory has no merit.
> >
> > If it can't go all of the way anymore how can it have merit?
> Same way as all other physics theories. None of them provides
> the "one true" explanation for anything. I don't know why you are
> barking atrelativity here, since the entirety of physics has always
> been like that. The entirety of science. Again: people counted
> (correctly) the amounts of heat before they even had a workable
> model of what heat was. People had the least action principle
> before they even had a model for why such a thing would work
> in the first place. It's same currently with GR: we know the
> exact correlation between energy-momentum flux and spacetime
> curvature but we don't have a workable model of that interaction
> yet. This in no way invalidates GR, just like in the old days
> counting the amount of heat yielded perfectly valid results, as
> did the principle of least action in Maupertuis' and Euler's day.
>
> --
> Jan

GR has been shown to not go all of the way...
it is proven to be incomplete.
It is wrong by omission.

Re: What about mass curves space?

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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by: Maciej Wozniak - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:07 UTC

On Wednesday, 15 March 2023 at 19:36:03 UTC+1, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitch wrote:
> > Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> >
> > Mitchell Raemsch
> Mass doesn't curve space.

Only axioms can.

Re: What about mass curves space?

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: film...@gmail.com (JanPB)
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by: JanPB - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:22 UTC

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 11:47:28 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 11:23:47 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 7:26:05 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 6:46:39 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> > > > > > We don't know.
> > > > > Why would you believe something you don't know?
> > > > > You must have some reason.
> > > > You really should work on your reading comprehension. This
> > > > is the second time in a couple of days that you distorted
> > > > the content of simple English sentences.
> > > >
> > > > I said: "We don't know" how the mass curves space.
> > >
> > > Yes. You don't know if it is right...
> > > where is your proof if it does not go all of the way?
> > This is how science has always worked. It's not a means
> > to perfect knowledge or omniscience.
>
> Science has never worked all of the way jan.

That's what I've just said. Do you read the posts you respond to?

> GR has been shown to not go all of the way...
> it is proven to be incomplete.
> It is wrong by omission.

So is every theory in physics that ever was.

--
Jan

Re: What about mass curves space?

<6532a5a8-f561-4fe3-8b75-80b2d02819a0n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: l.c.cros...@hotmail.com (Laurence Clark Crossen)
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by: Laurence Clark Cross - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 20:08 UTC

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 12:07:46 PM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> On Wednesday, 15 March 2023 at 19:36:03 UTC+1, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitch wrote:
> > > Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> > >
> > > Mitchell Raemsch
> > Mass doesn't curve space.
> Only axioms can.
Yes, Einstein did physics like a poker player bluffing and raising!

Re: What about mass curves space?

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
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by: whodat - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 23:19 UTC

On 3/15/2023 2:22 PM, JanPB wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 11:47:28 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 11:23:47 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 7:26:05 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 6:46:39 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
>>>>>>> We don't know.
>>>>>> Why would you believe something you don't know?
>>>>>> You must have some reason.
>>>>> You really should work on your reading comprehension. This
>>>>> is the second time in a couple of days that you distorted
>>>>> the content of simple English sentences.
>>>>>
>>>>> I said: "We don't know" how the mass curves space.
>>>>
>>>> Yes. You don't know if it is right...
>>>> where is your proof if it does not go all of the way?
>>> This is how science has always worked. It's not a means
>>> to perfect knowledge or omniscience.
>>
>> Science has never worked all of the way jan.
>
> That's what I've just said. Do you read the posts you respond to?
>
>> GR has been shown to not go all of the way...
>> it is proven to be incomplete.
>> It is wrong by omission.
>
> So is every theory in physics that ever was.

In short, understanding reality requires appreciating the limits of
some sort of range. Some of the ranges are easily accepted, others
not so much.

Re: What about mass curves space?

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
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by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Thu, 16 Mar 2023 00:51 UTC

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 4:20:03 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
> On 3/15/2023 2:22 PM, JanPB wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 11:47:28 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 11:23:47 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 7:26:05 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 6:46:39 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> >>>>>>> We don't know.
> >>>>>> Why would you believe something you don't know?
> >>>>>> You must have some reason.
> >>>>> You really should work on your reading comprehension. This
> >>>>> is the second time in a couple of days that you distorted
> >>>>> the content of simple English sentences.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I said: "We don't know" how the mass curves space.
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes. You don't know if it is right...
> >>>> where is your proof if it does not go all of the way?
> >>> This is how science has always worked. It's not a means
> >>> to perfect knowledge or omniscience.
> >>
> >> Science has never worked all of the way jan.
> >
> > That's what I've just said. Do you read the posts you respond to?
> >
> >> GR has been shown to not go all of the way...
> >> it is proven to be incomplete.
> >> It is wrong by omission.
> >
> > So is every theory in physics that ever was.
> In short, understanding reality requires appreciating the limits of
> some sort of range. Some of the ranges are easily accepted, others
> not so much.

So not dealing with everything real means it is not correct.
Something might appear to work but that is no proof it is real.
Einstein didn't need relativity. He had a real
alternative that does not have contradictions.

Mitchell Raemsch

Re: What about mass curves space?

<1cbbc57c-884a-450e-99c2-d31e996b3d42n@googlegroups.com>

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Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:55:14 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: film...@gmail.com (JanPB)
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by: JanPB - Thu, 16 Mar 2023 02:55 UTC

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:51:14 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 4:20:03 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
> > On 3/15/2023 2:22 PM, JanPB wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 11:47:28 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 11:23:47 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > >>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 7:26:05 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 6:46:39 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > >>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr....@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> > >>>>>>> We don't know.
> > >>>>>> Why would you believe something you don't know?
> > >>>>>> You must have some reason.
> > >>>>> You really should work on your reading comprehension. This
> > >>>>> is the second time in a couple of days that you distorted
> > >>>>> the content of simple English sentences.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I said: "We don't know" how the mass curves space.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Yes. You don't know if it is right...
> > >>>> where is your proof if it does not go all of the way?
> > >>> This is how science has always worked. It's not a means
> > >>> to perfect knowledge or omniscience.
> > >>
> > >> Science has never worked all of the way jan.
> > >
> > > That's what I've just said. Do you read the posts you respond to?
> > >
> > >> GR has been shown to not go all of the way...
> > >> it is proven to be incomplete.
> > >> It is wrong by omission.
> > >
> > > So is every theory in physics that ever was.
> > In short, understanding reality requires appreciating the limits of
> > some sort of range. Some of the ranges are easily accepted, others
> > not so much.
> So not dealing with everything real means it is not correct.

Why? Quantifying heat in the old days was correct, for example.

> Something might appear to work but that is no proof it is real.

There can never be a proof of a theory in physics. This is how
science works.

> Einstein didn't need relativity. He had a real
> alternative that does not have contradictions.

Relativity does not have any contradictions. And there is
really no alternative if you want the physical phenomena
to be invariant. That's what Maxwell's theory essentially
forced on Einstein.

--
Jan

Re: What about mass curves space?

<bacb3506-6cd7-4013-b836-087e2deef473n@googlegroups.com>

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Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
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by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Thu, 16 Mar 2023 03:07 UTC

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:55:16 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:51:14 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail..com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 4:20:03 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
> > > On 3/15/2023 2:22 PM, JanPB wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 11:47:28 AM UTC-7, mitchr....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 11:23:47 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > >>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 7:26:05 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 6:46:39 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > >>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, mitchr....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > >>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>> Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> > > >>>>>>> We don't know.
> > > >>>>>> Why would you believe something you don't know?
> > > >>>>>> You must have some reason.
> > > >>>>> You really should work on your reading comprehension. This
> > > >>>>> is the second time in a couple of days that you distorted
> > > >>>>> the content of simple English sentences.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> I said: "We don't know" how the mass curves space.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Yes. You don't know if it is right...
> > > >>>> where is your proof if it does not go all of the way?
> > > >>> This is how science has always worked. It's not a means
> > > >>> to perfect knowledge or omniscience.
> > > >>
> > > >> Science has never worked all of the way jan.
> > > >
> > > > That's what I've just said. Do you read the posts you respond to?
> > > >
> > > >> GR has been shown to not go all of the way...
> > > >> it is proven to be incomplete.
> > > >> It is wrong by omission.
> > > >
> > > > So is every theory in physics that ever was.
> > > In short, understanding reality requires appreciating the limits of
> > > some sort of range. Some of the ranges are easily accepted, others
> > > not so much.
> > So not dealing with everything real means it is not correct.
> Why? Quantifying heat in the old days was correct, for example.
> > Something might appear to work but that is no proof it is real.
> There can never be a proof of a theory in physics. This is how
> science works.

Then what makes any science self believable?
Many scientists say they have all the proof they need jan.
You are hipocritical about that. You go both ways
about being right and wrong...

> > Einstein didn't need relativity. He had a real
> > alternative that does not have contradictions.
> Relativity does not have any contradictions.

Sure it does. If you care to ask.

And there is
> really no alternative if you want the physical phenomena

Einstein proposed one... in 1905.

> to be invariant. That's what Maxwell's theory essentially
> forced on Einstein.
>
> --
> Jan

Re: What about mass curves space?

<8513cbdd-96e2-4695-8a2b-cf2b7350d6d8n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: What about mass curves space?
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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by: Maciej Wozniak - Thu, 16 Mar 2023 05:42 UTC

On Thursday, 16 March 2023 at 03:55:16 UTC+1, JanPB wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:51:14 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail..com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 4:20:03 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
> > > On 3/15/2023 2:22 PM, JanPB wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 11:47:28 AM UTC-7, mitchr....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 11:23:47 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > >>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 7:26:05 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 6:46:39 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > >>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, mitchr....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> > > >>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 3:37:37 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>> Einstein claimed it but how does mass do it?
> > > >>>>>>> We don't know.
> > > >>>>>> Why would you believe something you don't know?
> > > >>>>>> You must have some reason.
> > > >>>>> You really should work on your reading comprehension. This
> > > >>>>> is the second time in a couple of days that you distorted
> > > >>>>> the content of simple English sentences.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> I said: "We don't know" how the mass curves space.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Yes. You don't know if it is right...
> > > >>>> where is your proof if it does not go all of the way?
> > > >>> This is how science has always worked. It's not a means
> > > >>> to perfect knowledge or omniscience.
> > > >>
> > > >> Science has never worked all of the way jan.
> > > >
> > > > That's what I've just said. Do you read the posts you respond to?
> > > >
> > > >> GR has been shown to not go all of the way...
> > > >> it is proven to be incomplete.
> > > >> It is wrong by omission.
> > > >
> > > > So is every theory in physics that ever was.
> > > In short, understanding reality requires appreciating the limits of
> > > some sort of range. Some of the ranges are easily accepted, others
> > > not so much.
> > So not dealing with everything real means it is not correct.
> Why? Quantifying heat in the old days was correct, for example.
> > Something might appear to work but that is no proof it is real.
> There can never be a proof of a theory in physics. This is how
> science works.
> > Einstein didn't need relativity. He had a real
> > alternative that does not have contradictions.
> Relativity does not have any contradictions.

Yes, it has, it was demonstrated many times here.

And there is
> really no alternative if you want the physical phenomena
> to be invariant.

But why would anyone want it?

"How do I love thee? My accumulator overflows."

tech / sci.physics.relativity / What about mass curves space?

Subject	Author
What about mass curves space?	mitchr...@gmail.com
Re: What about mass curves space?	JanPB
Re: What about mass curves space?	mitchr...@gmail.com
Re: What about mass curves space?	JanPB
Re: What about mass curves space?	mitchr...@gmail.com
Re: What about mass curves space?	JanPB
Re: What about mass curves space?	Maciej Wozniak
Re: What about mass curves space?	mitchr...@gmail.com
Re: What about mass curves space?	JanPB
Re: What about mass curves space?	whodat
Re: What about mass curves space?	mitchr...@gmail.com
Re: What about mass curves space?	JanPB
Re: What about mass curves space?	mitchr...@gmail.com
Re: What about mass curves space?	Maciej Wozniak
Re: What about mass curves space?	whodat
Re: What about mass curves space?	mitchr...@gmail.com
Re: What about mass curves space?	Laurence Clark Crossen
Re: What about mass curves space?	mitchr...@gmail.com
Re: What about mass curves space?	Laurence Clark Crossen
Re: What about mass curves space?	Richard Hachel
Re: What about mass curves space?	Laurence Clark Crossen
Re: What about mass curves space?	Maciej Wozniak
Re: What about mass curves space?	Laurence Clark Crossen