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tech / sci.math / Re: Natural numbers and vases III

SubjectAuthor
* Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|`* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
| `- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIsergi o
+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIsergi o
|`* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFromTheRafters
| +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIsergi o
| `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|  `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIsergi o
|   `- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIsergi o
+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|`* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
| `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|  `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|   `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|    `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|     `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |`* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      | `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  ||`* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  || `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIsergi o
|      |  ||  `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIEram semper recta
|      |  ||   `- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIEram semper recta
|      |  |`* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIsergi o
|      |  | `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |  +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |  |`* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |  | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFromTheRafters
|      |  |  | `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |  |  +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |  |  |`- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFromTheRafters
|      |  |  |  +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |  |  `- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |  `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   |`* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFromTheRafters
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | ||+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFromTheRafters
|      |  |   | |||`- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIISurgio
|      |  |   | ||`* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIJim Burns
|      |  |   | || +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | || |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIISergio
|      |  |   | || |`* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIJim Burns
|      |  |   | || | `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | || |  `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIISergio
|      |  |   | || |   `- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | || +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | || +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | || +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | || |`- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIISergio
|      |  |   | || +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | || `- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIISurgio
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIISurgio
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIISergio
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIISergio
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIISergio
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIISergio
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | ||`* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIISergio
|      |  |   | || +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | || |`* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIISergio
|      |  |   | || | +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | || | |`* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIISergio
|      |  |   | || | | `- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIJim Africani
|      |  |   | || | `- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | || `- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIISergio
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFredJeffries
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFredJeffries
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFredJeffries
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWilliam
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | |`* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIWM
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIEram semper recta
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIEram semper recta
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIEram semper recta
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIEram semper recta
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIEram semper recta
|      |  |   | +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIEram semper recta
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIEram semper recta
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
|      |  |   | +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIGus Gassmann
|      |  |   | +* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   | `- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      |  |   `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFromTheRafters
|      |  `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
|      `* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIFritz Feldhase
+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIzelos...@gmail.com
+* Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIEram semper recta
+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIEduardo Faqtardo
+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIEram semper recta
+- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIArchimedes Plutonium
`- Re: Natural numbers and vases IIIArchimedes Plutonium

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Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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 by: WM - Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:03 UTC

William schrieb am Sonntag, 14. August 2022 um 21:51:38 UTC+2:
> On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 1:50:12 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>
> > The Peano-"set" is not a set
> Piffle
> >but a potentially infinite collection. This is proved by
> > ∀n ∈ ℕ[]: |ℕ \ {1, 2, 3, ..., n}| = ℵo.
> >
> > But there are not two consecutive sets of card ℵo before ω..
> Corect
>
> >So all n which belong to [a] Peano [set[ and have ℵo successors
>
> "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is one set. There is no second set.

The successors do not vanish. They follow beyond every Peano number.

> "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors " has cardinality ℵo.

Impossible. There are ℵo successors following each and every Peano number. Therefore there are not ℵo Peano numbers. If there were then not all of them could have ℵo successors.

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

<tde2dk$cjc$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: inva...@invalid.com (Sergio)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 13:14:09 -0500
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 by: Sergio - Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:14 UTC

On 8/15/2022 12:58 PM, WM wrote:
> FromTheRafters schrieb am Montag, 15. August 2022 um 10:55:30 UTC+2:
>> After serious thinking WM wrote :
>>> Fritz Feldhase schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. August 2022 um 20:32:12 UTC+2:
>>>> On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 7:55:16 PM UTC+2, WM wrote:
>>>>> Fritz Feldhase schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. August 2022 um 16:30:20 UTC+2:
>>>>>> On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 3:00:07 PM UTC+2, WM wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Very correct! All must happen element by element, i.e., as steps of a
>>>>>>> super task.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Du hast einen Riesensprung in der Schüssel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please elaborate how this could be done for uncountable sets. (Say, [-1,
>>>>>> 1] and IR.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncountable_set
>>>> NO ANSWER? WHY NOT?!
>>>
>>> 1) there are no uncountable sets.
>> Have you 'thrown out' the powerset axiom?
>
> For definable elements of sets yes. Simplest proof is the Binary Tree. In order to distinguish n Objects, you need at least n properties. For distinguishing n paths you need at least n properties. For n paths distinguishable by nodes you need n nodes. And if paths are not distinguishable by nodes then also Cantor's diagonal is not definable by digits.

Your stew pot was left way too long on the burner.

Your nodes have all slipped off your cracker.

Your above sentence with the meaningful words removed, note how you swing from one bs term to the other bs term;

"definable distinguish distinguishing distinguishable distinguishable definable"

>
> Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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From: inva...@invalid.com (Sergio)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 13:35:33 -0500
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 by: Sergio - Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:35 UTC

On 8/15/2022 1:03 PM, WM wrote:
> William schrieb am Sonntag, 14. August 2022 um 21:51:38 UTC+2:
>> On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 1:50:12 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>
>>> The Peano-"set" is not a set
>> Piffle
>>> but a potentially infinite collection. This is proved by
>>> ∀n ∈ ℕ[]: |ℕ \ {1, 2, 3, ..., n}| = ℵo.
>>>
>>> But there are not two consecutive sets of card ℵo before ω.
>> Corect
>>
>>> So all n which belong to [a] Peano [set[ and have ℵo successors
>>
>> "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is one set. There is no second set.
>
> The successors do not vanish. They follow beyond every Peano number.
>
>> "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors " has cardinality ℵo.
>
> Impossible. There are ℵo successors following each and every Peano number. Therefore there are not ℵo Peano numbers. If there were then not all of them could have ℵo successors.
>
> Regards, WM

??

The set of natural numbers is infinite, and each natural number has ℵo successors.

[guess you blew a fuse]

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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From: FTR...@nomail.afraid.org (FromTheRafters)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 14:39:51 -0400
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 by: FromTheRafters - Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:39 UTC

WM formulated on Monday :
> FromTheRafters schrieb am Montag, 15. August 2022 um 10:55:30 UTC+2:
>> After serious thinking WM wrote :
>>> Fritz Feldhase schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. August 2022 um 20:32:12 UTC+2:
>>>> On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 7:55:16 PM UTC+2, WM wrote:
>>>>> Fritz Feldhase schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. August 2022 um 16:30:20 UTC+2:
>>>>>> On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 3:00:07 PM UTC+2, WM wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Very correct! All must happen element by element, i.e., as steps of a
>>>>>>> super task.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Du hast einen Riesensprung in der Schüssel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please elaborate how this could be done for uncountable sets. (Say, [-1,
>>>>>> 1] and IR.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncountable_set
>>>> NO ANSWER? WHY NOT?!
>>>
>>> 1) there are no uncountable sets.
>> Have you 'thrown out' the powerset axiom?
>
> For definable elements of sets yes.

Since sets contain only elements which are defined in a way that gives
them membership to the set, that means that your 'definable elements'
is actually just 'elements'.

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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From: FTR...@nomail.afraid.org (FromTheRafters)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 14:41:30 -0400
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 by: FromTheRafters - Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:41 UTC

WM formulated the question :
> William schrieb am Sonntag, 14. August 2022 um 21:51:38 UTC+2:
>> On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 1:50:12 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>
>>> The Peano-"set" is not a set
>> Piffle
>>> but a potentially infinite collection. This is proved by
>>> ∀n ∈ ℕ[]: |ℕ \ {1, 2, 3, ..., n}| = ℵo.
>>>
>>> But there are not two consecutive sets of card ℵo before ω.
>> Corect
>>
>>> So all n which belong to [a] Peano [set[ and have ℵo successors
>>
>> "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is one set. There
>> is no second set.
>
> The successors do not vanish. They follow beyond every Peano number.
>
>> "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors " has cardinality
>> ℵo.
>
> Impossible. There are ℵo successors following each and every Peano number.
> Therefore there are not ℵo Peano numbers. If there were then not all of them
> could have ℵo successors.

Because you say so? Sorry, that's not good enough.

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
Injection-Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:53:43 +0000
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 by: William - Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:53 UTC

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 3:03:33 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> William schrieb am Sonntag, 14. August 2022 um 21:51:38 UTC+2:
> > On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 1:50:12 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> >
> > > The Peano-"set" is not a set
> > Piffle
> > >but a potentially infinite collection. This is proved by
> > > ∀n ∈ ℕ[]: |ℕ \ {1, 2, 3, ..., n}| = ℵo.
> > >
> > > But there are not two consecutive sets of card ℵo before ω.
> > Corect
> >
> > >So all n which belong to [a] Peano [set[ and have ℵo successors
> >
> > "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is one set. There is no second set.
> The successors do not vanish. They follow beyond every Peano number.

So what? Beyond each Peano number are only more elements of the single set "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors". There are no successors which do not belong to this set.

> > "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors " has cardinality ℵo.
> Impossible. There are ℵo successors following each and every Peano number.
Indeed, there are ℵo successors to every *element* of the set "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors"
However the *set* "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is not followed by anything.

--
William Hughes

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
Injection-Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 19:09:47 +0000
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 by: WM - Mon, 15 Aug 2022 19:09 UTC

William schrieb am Montag, 15. August 2022 um 20:53:48 UTC+2:
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 3:03:33 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > William schrieb am Sonntag, 14. August 2022 um 21:51:38 UTC+2:
> > > On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 1:50:12 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > >
> > > > The Peano-"set" is not a set
> > > Piffle
> > > >but a potentially infinite collection. This is proved by
> > > > ∀n ∈ ℕ[]: |ℕ \ {1, 2, 3, ..., n}| = ℵo.
> > > >
> > > > But there are not two consecutive sets of card ℵo before ω.
> > > Corect
> > >
> > > >So all n which belong to [a] Peano [set[ and have ℵo successors
> > >
> > > "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is one set. There is no second set.
> > The successors do not vanish. They follow beyond every Peano number.
> So what? Beyond each Peano number are only more elements of the single set "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors". There are no successors which do not belong to this set.

Then the successors could be exhausted.
They cannot be exhausted by individual subtraction:
∀n ∈ ℕ_def: |ℕ \ {1, 2, 3, ..., n}| = ℵo
But they can be exhausted by collective subtraction such that nothing remains.
ℕ \ ℕ 0 { }.'
This is a difference.

> > > "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors " has cardinality ℵo.
> > Impossible. There are ℵo successors following each and every Peano number.

But most successors are not Peano numbers. Otherwise they could all be removed such that no successors remained.

> Indeed, there are ℵo successors to every *element* of the set "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors"

Subtract all. Then you can say: I have subtracted all Peano numbers but most Peano numbers remain as successors. Contradiction. All means all without remainder.

> However the *set* "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is not followed by anything.

The reason of this difference is clearly dark numbers.

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: horand.g...@gmail.com (Gus Gassmann)
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 by: Gus Gassmann - Mon, 15 Aug 2022 19:47 UTC

On Monday, 15 August 2022 at 16:09:52 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> William schrieb am Montag, 15. August 2022 um 20:53:48 UTC+2:
[...]
> > Indeed, there are ℵo successors to every *element* of the set "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors"
> [WM's word salad removed]
> > However the *set* "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is not followed by anything.
> The [perceived] reason [for] this difference is clearly ...
non-functioning synapses. Muckenheim, you should no longer be allowed to go to the bathroom by yourself.

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
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 by: William - Mon, 15 Aug 2022 20:01 UTC

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 4:09:52 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:

> Subtract all.

Ok, Subtract the set.

>Then you can say: I have subtracted all Peano numbers

"All Peano Numbers" is the set of Peano numbers". This set contains S(n) for any element n. So if you remove the set you remove each S(n).

> but most Peano numbers remain as successors.

Nope, nothing remains. The *set* does not have any successors

--
William Hughes

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

<tdet6m$1stu$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: inva...@invalid.com (Sergio)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 20:51:17 -0500
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 by: Sergio - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 01:51 UTC

On 8/15/2022 2:09 PM, WM wrote:
> William schrieb am Montag, 15. August 2022 um 20:53:48 UTC+2:
>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 3:03:33 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>> William schrieb am Sonntag, 14. August 2022 um 21:51:38 UTC+2:
>>>> On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 1:50:12 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Peano-"set" is not a set
>>>> Piffle
>>>>> but a potentially infinite collection. This is proved by
>>>>> ∀n ∈ ℕ[]: |ℕ \ {1, 2, 3, ..., n}| = ℵo.
>>>>>
>>>>> But there are not two consecutive sets of card ℵo before ω.
>>>> Corect
>>>>
>>>>> So all n which belong to [a] Peano [set[ and have ℵo successors
>>>>
>>>> "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is one set. There is no second set.
>>> The successors do not vanish. They follow beyond every Peano number.
>> So what? Beyond each Peano number are only more elements of the single set "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors". There are no successors which do not belong to this set.
>
> Then the successors could be exhausted.
> They cannot be exhausted by individual subtraction:
> ∀n ∈ ℕ_def: |ℕ \ {1, 2, 3, ..., n}| = ℵo

that equation does not "exhaust" a set at all. It does not "do" anything.

It simply says the Endsegment(n+1) is infinite. (because you stopped at n)

> But they can be exhausted by collective subtraction such that nothing remains.
> ℕ \ ℕ 0 { }.'

trivial.

> This is a difference.
>
>>>> "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors " has cardinality ℵo.
>>> Impossible. There are ℵo successors following each and every Peano number.
>

>
> The reason of this difference is clearly dark numbers.

wrong. The reason is that your set of synapses has been exhausted, they are losing identity and becoming dark, without remainders, and no successors.

>
> Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: zelos.ma...@gmail.com (zelos...@gmail.com)
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 by: zelos...@gmail.com - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 07:25 UTC

måndag 15 augusti 2022 kl. 17:50:23 UTC+2 skrev WM:
> Fritz Feldhase schrieb am Montag, 15. August 2022 um 03:59:25 UTC+2:
> > On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 3:01:07 PM UTC+2, WM wrote:
>
> > > 1) there are no uncountable sets.
> > In set theory they are. Especially in Cantor's "transfinite set theory"..
> No, they are not existing.

Except they are, aleph_0 is countable, aleph_1 is not

> > > 2) They can be counted too. Alle Mengen sind daher in einem erweiterten Sinne "abzählbar", im besonderen alle "Kontinua". [Cantor]
>
> >
> > Ah, I see: they don't exist. But they can be counted too.
> According to Cantor!

Cantor never said uncountable ones can be counted, he explicitly proved they can't and |P(S)|>|S|

> > Hint: It's clear that Cantor DID NOT talk about a "stepwise process" here:
> >
> > "Wenn zwei wohldefinierte Mannigfaltigkeiten M und N sich eindeutig und vollständig, Element für Element, einander zuordnen lassen [...]" [Cantor, p. 119]
> Element für Element = Schritt für Schritt.

Does not mean what you want it to

> >
> > Actually, he didn't talk about a process here at all.
> He did: "und es erfährt daher der aus unsrer Regel resultierende Zuordnungsprozeß keinen Stillstand".
> >
> > > Element für Element defined a process.
> >
> > Could please describe a stepwise process that relates all elements in [-1, 1] to all elements in IR (in a one-to-one fashon)?
> I do not claim that possible.

Which is why mathematics don't do step processes!

>
> Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: zelos.ma...@gmail.com (zelos...@gmail.com)
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 by: zelos...@gmail.com - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 07:36 UTC

måndag 15 augusti 2022 kl. 21:09:52 UTC+2 skrev WM:
> William schrieb am Montag, 15. August 2022 um 20:53:48 UTC+2:
> > On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 3:03:33 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > > William schrieb am Sonntag, 14. August 2022 um 21:51:38 UTC+2:
> > > > On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 1:50:12 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The Peano-"set" is not a set
> > > > Piffle
> > > > >but a potentially infinite collection. This is proved by
> > > > > ∀n ∈ ℕ[]: |ℕ \ {1, 2, 3, ..., n}| = ℵo.
> > > > >
> > > > > But there are not two consecutive sets of card ℵo before ω.
> > > > Corect
> > > >
> > > > >So all n which belong to [a] Peano [set[ and have ℵo successors
> > > >
> > > > "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is one set. There is no second set.
> > > The successors do not vanish. They follow beyond every Peano number.
> > So what? Beyond each Peano number are only more elements of the single set "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors". There are no successors which do not belong to this set.
> Then the successors could be exhausted.

Nothing is exhausted, every natural number has a successor

> They cannot be exhausted by individual subtraction:

Meaningless

> ∀n ∈ ℕ_def: |ℕ \ {1, 2, 3, ..., n}| = ℵo

remove the _def and it is still fuckign true because your __defi s meaningless.

> But they can be exhausted by collective subtraction such that nothing remains.
> ℕ \ ℕ 0 { }.'
> This is a difference.

The difference is you are using first a finite set then the set itself. Nothing else.

> > > > "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors " has cardinality ℵo.
> > > Impossible. There are ℵo successors following each and every Peano number.
> But most successors are not Peano numbers. Otherwise they could all be removed such that no successors remained.

False, all successors are.

> > Indeed, there are ℵo successors to every *element* of the set "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors"
> Subtract all. Then you can say: I have subtracted all Peano numbers but most Peano numbers remain as successors. Contradiction. All means all without remainder.
> > However the *set* "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is not followed by anything.
> The reason of this difference is clearly dark numbers.

False

>
> Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=109268&group=sci.math#109268

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
Injection-Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 10:10:26 +0000
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 by: WM - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 10:10 UTC

William schrieb am Montag, 15. August 2022 um 22:02:03 UTC+2:
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 4:09:52 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>
> > Subtract all.
>
> Ok, Subtract the set.

The set is all its elements.Therefore subtract the set means subtract all its elements.

> >Then you can say: I have subtracted all Peano numbers
> "All Peano Numbers" is the set of Peano numbers". This set contains S(n) for any element n. So if you remove the set you remove each S(n).

And if you remove each S(n) then nothing remains. That shows: You have removed all elements. But you cannot remove individually each element such that nothing remains. That shows a difference.

> > but most Peano numbers remain as successors.
> Nope, nothing remains. The *set* does not have any successors

But all individual removals leave successors. That shows a difference.

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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 by: WM - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 10:19 UTC

zelos...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 16. August 2022 um 09:25:11 UTC+2:
> måndag 15 augusti 2022 kl. 17:50:23 UTC+2 skrev WM:

> Cantor never said uncountable ones can be counted, he explicitly proved they can't and |P(S)|>|S|

You are wrong, as usual. "ich habe aber in Nr. 5 [hier S. 195f] gezeigt und hervorgehoben, daß man strenggenommen auch von den Mengen zweiter, dritter oder höherer Mächtigkeit immer sagen kann, sie seien abzählbar;" [Cantor]

> > > Hint: It's clear that Cantor DID NOT talk about a "stepwise process" here:
> > >
> > > "Wenn zwei wohldefinierte Mannigfaltigkeiten M und N sich eindeutig und vollständig, Element für Element, einander zuordnen lassen [....]" [Cantor, p. 119]
> > Element für Element = Schritt für Schritt.
> Does not mean what you want it to

You are wrong, as usual. He talks about a process that never halts: "und es erfährt daher der aus unsrer Regel resultierende Zuordnungsprozeß keinen Stillstand." [Cantor]

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

<6ce5dba6-4a47-453e-969f-7f94ecd8be6en@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: zelos.ma...@gmail.com (zelos...@gmail.com)
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 by: zelos...@gmail.com - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 10:36 UTC

tisdag 16 augusti 2022 kl. 12:19:36 UTC+2 skrev WM:
> zelos...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 16. August 2022 um 09:25:11 UTC+2:
> > måndag 15 augusti 2022 kl. 17:50:23 UTC+2 skrev WM:
>
> > Cantor never said uncountable ones can be counted, he explicitly proved they can't and |P(S)|>|S|
> You are wrong, as usual.

Comes from the one that makes up shit and cannot do basic fucking mathematics!

>"ich habe aber in Nr. 5 [hier S. 195f] gezeigt und hervorgehoben, daß man strenggenommen auch von den Mengen zweiter, dritter oder höherer Mächtigkeit immer sagen kann, sie seien abzählbar;" [Cantor]
> > > > Hint: It's clear that Cantor DID NOT talk about a "stepwise process" here:
> > > >
> > > > "Wenn zwei wohldefinierte Mannigfaltigkeiten M und N sich eindeutig und vollständig, Element für Element, einander zuordnen lassen [....]" [Cantor, p. 119]
> > > Element für Element = Schritt für Schritt.
> > Does not mean what you want it to
> You are wrong, as usual. He talks about a process that never halts: "und es erfährt daher der aus unsrer Regel resultierende Zuordnungsprozeß keinen Stillstand." [Cantor]
>
> Regards, WM

Dude, you're the one that is always wrong but you refuse to fucking learn!

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: horand.g...@gmail.com (Gus Gassmann)
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 by: Gus Gassmann - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 10:55 UTC

On Tuesday, 16 August 2022 at 07:10:30 UTC-3, WM wrote:
[...]
> But all individual removals leave successors. That shows a difference.

Of course it shows a difference! Removing things one at a time does not remove an infinite number of them. Ever. (Unless you are Chuck Norris, I suppose. Then you can do it twice.) For normal people, it requires a *LIMIT*, for example the limit ordinal omega. For imbeciles like you, it requires a brain.

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 03:58:59 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: horand.g...@gmail.com (Gus Gassmann)
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 by: Gus Gassmann - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 10:58 UTC

On Tuesday, 16 August 2022 at 07:19:36 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> zelos...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 16. August 2022 um 09:25:11 UTC+2:
> > måndag 15 augusti 2022 kl. 17:50:23 UTC+2 skrev WM:
>
> > Cantor never said uncountable ones can be counted, he explicitly proved they can't and |P(S)|>|S|
> You are wrong, as usual. "ich habe aber in Nr. 5 [hier S. 195f] gezeigt und hervorgehoben, daß man strenggenommen auch von den Mengen zweiter, dritter oder höherer Mächtigkeit immer sagen kann, sie seien abzählbar;" [Cantor]

Your stupidity is infinite, mon cher. What do you think cantor meant by "strictly speaking"? Sure as hell not that the real numbers can be put into a bijection with |N, the way the rationals can be! You really know /absolutely/ nothing.

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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From: FTR...@nomail.afraid.org (FromTheRafters)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 08:13:14 -0400
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 by: FromTheRafters - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 12:13 UTC

WM explained on 8/16/2022 :
> zelos...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 16. August 2022 um 09:25:11 UTC+2:
>> måndag 15 augusti 2022 kl. 17:50:23 UTC+2 skrev WM:
>
>> Cantor never said uncountable ones can be counted, he explicitly proved they
>> can't and |P(S)|>|S|
>
> You are wrong, as usual.

....he said while staring at proof to the contrary.

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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From: inva...@invalid.com (Sergio)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 07:13:26 -0500
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 by: Sergio - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 12:13 UTC

On 8/16/2022 5:19 AM, WM wrote:
> zelos...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 16. August 2022 um 09:25:11 UTC+2:
>> måndag 15 augusti 2022 kl. 17:50:23 UTC+2 skrev WM:
>
>> Cantor never said uncountable ones can be counted, he explicitly proved they can't and |P(S)|>|S|
>
> You are wrong, as usual. "ich habe aber in Nr. 5 [hier S. 195f] gezeigt und hervorgehoben, daß man strenggenommen auch von den Mengen zweiter, dritter oder höherer Mächtigkeit immer sagen kann, sie seien abzählbar;" [Cantor]
>
>>>> Hint: It's clear that Cantor DID NOT talk about a "stepwise process" here:
>>>>
>>>> "Wenn zwei wohldefinierte Mannigfaltigkeiten M und N sich eindeutig und vollständig, Element für Element, einander zuordnen lassen [...]" [Cantor, p. 119]
>>> Element für Element = Schritt für Schritt.
>> Does not mean what you want it to
>
> You are wrong, as usual. He talks about a process that never halts: "und es erfährt daher der aus unsrer Regel resultierende Zuordnungsprozeß keinen Stillstand." [Cantor]
>

again you intentionally mislead people by not providing the context. Shame on you!

> Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
Injection-Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 14:50:05 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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 by: William - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 14:50 UTC

On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 7:10:30 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> William schrieb am Montag, 15. August 2022 um 22:02:03 UTC+2:
> > On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 4:09:52 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> >
> > > Subtract all.
> >
> > Ok, Subtract the set.
> The set is all its elements.Therefore subtract the set means subtract all its elements.
> > >Then you can say: I have subtracted all Peano numbers
> > "All Peano Numbers" is the set of Peano numbers". This set contains S(n) for any element n. So if you remove the set you remove each S(n).
> And if you remove each S(n) then nothing remains.

Correct. If you "subtract all" then nothing remains. So your contention

> Subtract all. Then you can say: I have subtracted all Peano numbers but most Peano numbers remain as successors

is false. There is no contradiction. "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is one set
of cardinality aleph_0. There is no second set. I
--
William Hughes

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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 by: WM - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 15:39 UTC

William schrieb am Dienstag, 16. August 2022 um 16:50:08 UTC+2:
> On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 7:10:30 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > William schrieb am Montag, 15. August 2022 um 22:02:03 UTC+2:
> > > On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 4:09:52 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > >
> > > > Subtract all.
> > >
> > > Ok, Subtract the set.
> > The set is all its elements.Therefore subtract the set means subtract all its elements.
> > > >Then you can say: I have subtracted all Peano numbers
> > > "All Peano Numbers" is the set of Peano numbers". This set contains S(n) for any element n. So if you remove the set you remove each S(n).
> > And if you remove each S(n) then nothing remains.
> Correct. If you "subtract all" then nothing remains. So your contention
>
> > Subtract all. Then you can say: I have subtracted all Peano numbers but most Peano numbers remain as successors
>
> is false.

No. Individual subtraction leaves all dark numers.

> There is no contradiction. "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is one set

No, if so, then you could remove them by induction, individually. But you can't. The successors form an ℵ₀-set. The Peano numbers cannot leave the finite domain.
Proof: {1, 2, 3, ..., n} is finite for every Peano number, for every definable Peano number n.

Regards, wm

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: franz.fr...@gmail.com (Fritz Feldhase)
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 by: Fritz Feldhase - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 15:41 UTC

On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 4:50:08 PM UTC+2, William wrote:

> There is no contradiction. "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is one set
> of cardinality aleph_0. There is no second set.

Why are you talking nonsense, idiot?

=> THE SET OF /all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors/ is a set of cardinality aleph_0.

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

<tdgead$3b95$1@dont-email.me>

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From: FTR...@nomail.afraid.org (FromTheRafters)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 11:49:30 -0400
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 by: FromTheRafters - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 15:49 UTC

WM laid this down on his screen :
> William schrieb am Dienstag, 16. August 2022 um 16:50:08 UTC+2:
>> On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 7:10:30 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>> William schrieb am Montag, 15. August 2022 um 22:02:03 UTC+2:
>>>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 4:09:52 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Subtract all.
>>>>
>>>> Ok, Subtract the set. The set is all its elements.Therefore subtract the
>>>> set means subtract all its elements.
>>>>> Then you can say: I have subtracted all Peano numbers
>>>> "All Peano Numbers" is the set of Peano numbers". This set contains S(n)
>>>> for any element n. So if you remove the set you remove each S(n).
>>> And if you remove each S(n) then nothing remains.
>> Correct. If you "subtract all" then nothing remains. So your contention
>>
>>> Subtract all. Then you can say: I have subtracted all Peano numbers but
>>> most Peano numbers remain as successors
>>
>> is false.
>
> No. Individual subtraction leaves all dark numers.
>
>> There is no contradiction. "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo
>> successors" is one set
>
> No, if so, then you could remove them by induction, individually.

Still haven't learned what induction is I see.

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

<tdgikh$1pii$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: inva...@invalid.com (Sergio)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 12:03:10 -0500
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 by: Sergio - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 17:03 UTC

On 8/16/2022 10:39 AM, WM wrote:
> William schrieb am Dienstag, 16. August 2022 um 16:50:08 UTC+2:
>> On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 7:10:30 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>> William schrieb am Montag, 15. August 2022 um 22:02:03 UTC+2:
>>>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 4:09:52 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Subtract all.
>>>>
>>>> Ok, Subtract the set.
>>> The set is all its elements.Therefore subtract the set means subtract all its elements.
>>>>> Then you can say: I have subtracted all Peano numbers
>>>> "All Peano Numbers" is the set of Peano numbers". This set contains S(n) for any element n. So if you remove the set you remove each S(n).
>>> And if you remove each S(n) then nothing remains.
>> Correct. If you "subtract all" then nothing remains. So your contention
>>
>>> Subtract all. Then you can say: I have subtracted all Peano numbers but most Peano numbers remain as successors
>>
>> is false.
>
> No. Individual subtraction leaves all dark numers.

hogwash

>
>> There is no contradiction. "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is one set
>
> No, if so, then you could remove them by induction, individually. But you can't. The successors form an ℵ₀-set. The Peano numbers cannot leave the finite domain.
> Proof: {1, 2, 3, ..., n} is finite for every Peano number, for every definable Peano number n.

you have some of the words, but you do not seem to put them in order to actually mean something.

your proof is SPOOF, => {1, 2, 3, ..., n,...} is infinite for every Peano number

or you are cornered, you have run out of math, and are panicking, and then blurt out a fat red herring....

Perhaps if you use the language of MATH instead...

>
> Regards, wm

Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases III
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
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 by: William - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 17:25 UTC

On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 12:39:08 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> William schrieb am Dienstag, 16. August 2022 um 16:50:08 UTC+2:
> > On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 7:10:30 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:

> > > And if you remove each S(n) then nothing remains.
> > Correct. If you "subtract all" then nothing remains. So your contention
> >
> > > Subtract all. Then you can say: I have subtracted all Peano numbers but most Peano numbers remain as successors
> >
> > is false.
> No. Individual subtraction leaves all dark numers.
Vacuously true. There are no "dark numbers"
> > There is no contradiction. "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" is one set
> No, if so, then you could remove them by [a stepwise process]. But you can't.

Nope. You can remove the set "all n which belong to a Peano set and have ℵo successors" but not by a stepwise
process.

> The successors form an ℵ₀-set.

Correct. The set of successors is infinite.
>The Peano numbers cannot leave the finite domain.
> Proof: {1, 2, 3, ..., n} is finite for every Peano number,

So what? Each *element* of the set of successors is finite. The *set* of successors is infinite

--
William Hughes


tech / sci.math / Re: Natural numbers and vases III

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