On 3/18/23 4:41 PM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> The Miller data /are/ a time series in a way, with the readings as
> uniform as the rotation of the device. [...]

Each run can be considered to be a (regular) time series ONLY if it has
no omitted adjustment turns. From the dozen or so of those that I have
seen [#], I can say that you are HIGHLY unlikely to find any significant
1/2-turn or 1-turn "signal" in them. The ones I remember were simply a
monotonic drift totaling less than 1 fringe during 20 turns -- this is a
self-fulfilling prophecy, because if it drifted much more than that, he
would have made an adjustment. (My memory 17 years later is hazy.)

[#] When I was at CWRU to give a physics colloquium on
this, Prof. Fickinger and I spent a few hours in the
archives scanning Miller's data sheets for runs with no
adjustments. Our only selection criteria were 20 turns
with no adjustments (some runs have fewer turns, a very
few have more). I don't remember if we looked at every
sheet or had to quit before that; I believe we looked
at more than half. IIRC we found several dozen -- that
was 17 years ago and my memory is hazy. I have copies
somewhere, but have no interest in typing them in.

Interestingly, Dayton Miller was the first head of the physics
department at what is now CWRU. He designed their physics building, and
it has several pillars intended to support interferometers, which go all
the way down to bedrock and never connect to the rest of the building
(for vibration isolation). Also: the archives' exhibit on Dayton Miller
was primarily about his extensive collection of flutes; they had to dig
to find his interferometer data sheets, which were kept loose in about a
dozen folders.

Tom Roberts

Tom Roberts:

> > The Miller data /are/ a time series in a way, with the
> > readings as uniform as the rotation of the device. [...]
>
> Each run can be considered to be a (regular) time series
> ONLY if it has no omitted adjustment turns.

If regular means gapless. In my pre-processing, I
incorporated the adjustments as you did but instead of
cutting the adjustment turns out I counted them, producing
time series with gaps in readings. Thankfully, there are
methods and even software to analyse such series.

> From the dozen or so of those that I have seen [#], I can
> say that you are HIGHLY unlikely to find any significant
> 1/2-turn or 1-turn "signal" in them.

You published set contains several runs marked "steady",
"very steady", and "perfectly steady" in your
transcriptions. They are not, however, literally monotonic,
but often predominantly so.

> The ones I remember were simply a monotonic drift totaling
> less than 1 fringe during 20 turns this is a self-
> fulfilling prophecy, because if it drifted much more than
> that, he would have made an adjustment. (My memory 17
> years later is hazy.)

Of course, yet there are "perfect" Mt. Wilson runs with no
adjustments and a considerable (in comparison to others)
half-periodic signal, present before any comb-filtering.

> When I was at CWRU to give a physics colloquium on this,
> Prof. Fickinger and I spent a few hours in the archives
> scanning Miller's data sheets for runs with no
> adjustments. Our only selection criteria were 20 turns
> with no adjustments (some runs have fewer turns, a very
> few have more). I don't remember if we looked at every
> sheet or had to quit before that; I believe we looked at
> more than half. IIRC we found several dozen -- that was 17
> years ago and my memory is hazy. I have copies somewhere,
> but have no interest in typing them in.

Will you share all your scans so that I can type them in?

> Interestingly, Dayton Miller was the first head of the
> physics department at what is now CWRU. He designed their
> physics building, and it has several pillars intended to
> support interferometers,

Why more than one? One might think he was erecting a temple
ofthe Ether Wind :-)

> which go all the way down to bedrock and never connect to
> the rest of the building (for vibration isolation).

Similar to some of my loudspeaker designs isolating the
driver from the front baffle of the enclosure.

> Also: the archives' exhibit on Dayton Miller was primarily
> about his extensive collection of flutes;

Does it include his works on acoustics, and particularly the
Phonodeik?

> they had to dig to find his interferometer data sheets,
> which were kept loose in about a dozen folders.

I believe they came from Shankland, after a long period of
being unaccounted and missing. Have you an idea how I can
order scans of those sheets wihtout actually coming to CWRU?
If all hope for a positive result is to be abanandoned, I
will do it after a diligent study of the available data,
meaning some 300 or so sheets from the Mt. Wilson
experiments.

--
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/\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

[-]
> Interestingly, Dayton Miller was the first head of the physics
> department at what is now CWRU. He designed their physics building, and
> it has several pillars intended to support interferometers, which go all
> the way down to bedrock and never connect to the rest of the building
> (for vibration isolation). Also: the archives' exhibit on Dayton Miller
> was primarily about his extensive collection of flutes; they had to dig
> to find his interferometer data sheets, which were kept loose in about a
> dozen folders.

That sounds like he no longer believed in it himself,

Jan

Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:

> Tom Roberts:
[-]
> > Interestingly, Dayton Miller was the first head of the
> > physics department at what is now CWRU. He designed their
> > physics building, and it has several pillars intended to
> > support interferometers,
>
> Why more than one? One might think he was erecting a temple
> ofthe Ether Wind :-)

Of course not. There are a great many other physics experiments
that require a stable and vibration-free foundation.
(clocks, mechanical galvanometers, spectroscopes, etc)

Any prudent designer would foresee the need for stable foundations,

Jan

J. J. Lodder to Anton Shepelev:
> > Tom Roberts:
> >
> > > Interestingly, Dayton Miller was the first head of the
> > > physics department at what is now CWRU. He designed
> > > their physics building, and it has several pillars
> > > intended to support interferometers,
> >
> > Why more than one? One might think he was erecting a
> > temple ofthe Ether Wind :-)
>
> Of course not. There are a great many other physics
> experiments that require a stable and vibration-free
> foundation. (clocks, mechanical galvanometers,
> spectroscopes, etc)

But they are not interferometers.

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J. J. Lodder to Tom Roberts:

> > Also: the archives' exhibit on Dayton Miller was
> > primarily about his extensive collection of flutes; they
> > had to dig to find his interferometer data sheets, which
> > were kept loose in about a dozen folders.
>
> That sounds like he no longer believed in it himself,

Loose sheets probably means they are not bound (cf. Pascal's
Pensees), not they are in disarray. Miller entrusted his
records to Shankland to "analyse them or burn them."
Prompted in 2002 by antirelativist speculations about
Shankland's destuction of them, CWRU staff made an
intensive search, finding the Miller archive in the Physics
Department.

I have no evidence whatsoever of Miller's disappointment in
the idea of either wind. The last publication, made in 1940
and a year before his death, is a short recap of his ether-
drift experiments and their positive results.

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On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 14:35:41 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
>
> > Tom Roberts:
> [-]
> > > Interestingly, Dayton Miller was the first head of the
> > > physics department at what is now CWRU. He designed their
> > > physics building, and it has several pillars intended to
> > > support interferometers,
> >
> > Why more than one? One might think he was erecting a temple
> > ofthe Ether Wind :-)
> Of course not. There are a great many other physics experiments
> that require a stable and vibration-free foundation.
> (clocks, mechanical galvanometers, spectroscopes, etc)

And in the meantime in the real world, forbidden by your
bunch of idiots improper clocks keep measuring t'=t in
forbidden by your bunch of idiots improper seconds.

On 2023-03-20 14:45:22 +0000, Maciej Wozniak said:

> On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 14:35:41 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Roberts:
>> [-]
>>>> Interestingly, Dayton Miller was the first head of the
>>>> physics department at what is now CWRU. He designed their
>>>> physics building, and it has several pillars intended to
>>>> support interferometers,
>>>
>>> Why more than one? One might think he was erecting a temple
>>> ofthe Ether Wind :-)
>> Of course not. There are a great many other physics experiments
>> that require a stable and vibration-free foundation.
>> (clocks, mechanical galvanometers, spectroscopes, etc)
>
> And in the meantime in the real world, forbidden by your
> bunch of idiots improper clocks keep measuring t'=t in
> forbidden by your bunch of idiots improper seconds.

Has it ever occurred to you that you might get more respect in this
group if from time to time you set out a reasoned argument instead of
endlessly repeating mindless noise?

--
athel -- biochemist, not a physicist, but detector of crackpots

On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 16:43:12 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-03-20 14:45:22 +0000, Maciej Wozniak said:
>
> > On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 14:35:41 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >> Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Tom Roberts:
> >> [-]
> >>>> Interestingly, Dayton Miller was the first head of the
> >>>> physics department at what is now CWRU. He designed their
> >>>> physics building, and it has several pillars intended to
> >>>> support interferometers,
> >>>
> >>> Why more than one? One might think he was erecting a temple
> >>> ofthe Ether Wind :-)
> >> Of course not. There are a great many other physics experiments
> >> that require a stable and vibration-free foundation.
> >> (clocks, mechanical galvanometers, spectroscopes, etc)
> >
> > And in the meantime in the real world, forbidden by your
> > bunch of idiots improper clocks keep measuring t'=t in
> > forbidden by your bunch of idiots improper seconds.
> Has it ever occurred to you that you might get more respect in this
> group if from time to time you set out a reasoned argument instead of
> endlessly repeating mindless noise?

See, Athel - I'm one of the best logicians humanity ever
had, and you're just a religious maniac admitting himself
lacking the knowledge of the subject. Of course you can't
discuss what I wrote, you can only bark and spit. But you'll
do what you can for The Shit you love.

Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 16:43:12 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2023-03-20 14:45:22 +0000, Maciej Wozniak said:
>>
>>> On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 14:35:41 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>> Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tom Roberts:
>>>> [-]
>>>>>> Interestingly, Dayton Miller was the first head of the
>>>>>> physics department at what is now CWRU. He designed their
>>>>>> physics building, and it has several pillars intended to
>>>>>> support interferometers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Why more than one? One might think he was erecting a temple
>>>>> ofthe Ether Wind :-)
>>>> Of course not. There are a great many other physics experiments
>>>> that require a stable and vibration-free foundation.
>>>> (clocks, mechanical galvanometers, spectroscopes, etc)
>>>
>>> And in the meantime in the real world, forbidden by your
>>> bunch of idiots improper clocks keep measuring t'=t in
>>> forbidden by your bunch of idiots improper seconds.
>> Has it ever occurred to you that you might get more respect in this
>> group if from time to time you set out a reasoned argument instead of
>> endlessly repeating mindless noise?
>
> See, Athel - I'm one of the best logicians humanity ever
> had

Ah ah ah ah ah ah!

The fact that you've never convinced ANYONE that your rant on
SR makes any sense and also never convinced ANYONE that you are
"one the best logicians humanity ever had" (you still owe me a
keyboard for the first time you pretended this!) should ring
a bell, shouldn't it?

It doesn't right? You're a psychopath Maciej.

On 2023-03-20 15:58:05 +0000, Maciej Wozniak said:

> On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 16:43:12 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2023-03-20 14:45:22 +0000, Maciej Wozniak said:
>>
>>> On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 14:35:41 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>> Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tom Roberts:
>>>> [-]
>>>>>> Interestingly, Dayton Miller was the first head of the
>>>>>> physics department at what is now CWRU. He designed their
>>>>>> physics building, and it has several pillars intended to
>>>>>> support interferometers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Why more than one? One might think he was erecting a temple
>>>>> ofthe Ether Wind :-)
>>>> Of course not. There are a great many other physics experiments
>>>> that require a stable and vibration-free foundation.
>>>> (clocks, mechanical galvanometers, spectroscopes, etc)
>>>
>>> And in the meantime in the real world, forbidden by your
>>> bunch of idiots improper clocks keep measuring t'=t in
>>> forbidden by your bunch of idiots improper seconds.
>> Has it ever occurred to you that you might get more respect in this
>> group if from time to time you set out a reasoned argument instead of
>> endlessly repeating mindless noise?
>
> See, Athel - I'm one of the best logicians humanity ever
> had, and you're just a religious maniac admitting himself
> lacking the knowledge of the subject. Of course you can't
> discuss what I wrote,

There is isn't anything to discuss. Why don't you write something
instead of repeating the same inanity over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
again?

> you can only bark and spit. But you'll
> do what you can for The Shit you love.

--
athel -- biochemist, not a physicist, but detector of crackpots

On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 17:03:51 UTC+1, Python wrote:
> Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> > On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 16:43:12 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >> On 2023-03-20 14:45:22 +0000, Maciej Wozniak said:
> >>
> >>> On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 14:35:41 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>>> Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Tom Roberts:
> >>>> [-]
> >>>>>> Interestingly, Dayton Miller was the first head of the
> >>>>>> physics department at what is now CWRU. He designed their
> >>>>>> physics building, and it has several pillars intended to
> >>>>>> support interferometers,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why more than one? One might think he was erecting a temple
> >>>>> ofthe Ether Wind :-)
> >>>> Of course not. There are a great many other physics experiments
> >>>> that require a stable and vibration-free foundation.
> >>>> (clocks, mechanical galvanometers, spectroscopes, etc)
> >>>
> >>> And in the meantime in the real world, forbidden by your
> >>> bunch of idiots improper clocks keep measuring t'=t in
> >>> forbidden by your bunch of idiots improper seconds.
> >> Has it ever occurred to you that you might get more respect in this
> >> group if from time to time you set out a reasoned argument instead of
> >> endlessly repeating mindless noise?
> >
> > See, Athel - I'm one of the best logicians humanity ever
> > had
> Ah ah ah ah ah ah!
>
> The fact that you've never convinced ANYONE that your rant on

If you had any reasons to deny what I say - we would
discuss. You don't, so you spit and wave arms. That's
the usual way of a crank, you saw it many times
amongst other cranks.

On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 17:12:01 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-03-20 15:58:05 +0000, Maciej Wozniak said:
>
> > On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 16:43:12 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >> On 2023-03-20 14:45:22 +0000, Maciej Wozniak said:
> >>
> >>> On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 14:35:41 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>>> Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Tom Roberts:
> >>>> [-]
> >>>>>> Interestingly, Dayton Miller was the first head of the
> >>>>>> physics department at what is now CWRU. He designed their
> >>>>>> physics building, and it has several pillars intended to
> >>>>>> support interferometers,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why more than one? One might think he was erecting a temple
> >>>>> ofthe Ether Wind :-)
> >>>> Of course not. There are a great many other physics experiments
> >>>> that require a stable and vibration-free foundation.
> >>>> (clocks, mechanical galvanometers, spectroscopes, etc)
> >>>
> >>> And in the meantime in the real world, forbidden by your
> >>> bunch of idiots improper clocks keep measuring t'=t in
> >>> forbidden by your bunch of idiots improper seconds.
> >> Has it ever occurred to you that you might get more respect in this
> >> group if from time to time you set out a reasoned argument instead of
> >> endlessly repeating mindless noise?
> >
> > See, Athel - I'm one of the best logicians humanity ever
> > had, and you're just a religious maniac admitting himself
> > lacking the knowledge of the subject. Of course you can't
> > discuss what I wrote,
> There is isn't anything to discuss.

Of course there is nothing. You can't deny what I say
by any rational means, so you deny it by barking and
spitting. Cranks always do that way.

On 3/20/23 6:07 AM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> Have you an idea how I can order scans of those sheets wihtout
> actually coming to CWRU?

Send email to the archives, archives@case.edu. Ask for an inventory of
Miller's data sheets. They used to be willing to copy them for a nominal
fee, if you told them precisely which sheets to copy (e.g. all sheets
from Mt. Wilson).

When Prof. Fickinger and I visited the archives in 2006, they extended
him (+me) the ability to handle the sheets and flag individual ones for
copying. We had to be careful and preserve the order in the folders.
They snail-mailed paper copies to me. Today you can probably
request that they scan them to PDF and send them to you via email.

Tom Roberts