Elaine had very little to say on hylobatids.
What would she have said on hearing that among hominoids, only humans and gibbons:
- uniquely lack laryngeal air sacs
- uniquely have chins
- uniquely drink water with 2 cupped hands
- uniquely are obligate orthograde bipedalists
and that no Great ape shares any of these traits?
--

At c 15 Ma, hominids were West of the Mesopotamian Seaway closure (i.e. in the Tethys Sea = later Med.Sea), pongids East (i.e. Indian Ocean coasal forests), and forced hylobatids higher into the trees:
- hylobatids became smaller & faster brachiators (no fossils AFAWK),
- pongids (Siva-Gigantopith etc.) remained aquarboreal & later suspensory.
MV at aat.io
Does not address these points.
Why?

Op maandag 23 augustus 2021 om 23:34:22 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> Elaine had very little to say on hylobatids.
> What would she have said on hearing that among hominoids, only humans and gibbons:
> - uniquely lack laryngeal air sacs
> - uniquely have chins
> - uniquely drink water with 2 cupped hands
> - uniquely are obligate orthograde bipedalists
> and that no Great ape shares any of these traits?

> At c 15 Ma, hominids were West of the Mesopotamian Seaway closure (i.e. in the Tethys Sea = later Med.Sea), pongids East (i.e. Indian Ocean coasal forests), and forced hylobatids higher into the trees:
> - hylobatids became smaller & faster brachiators (no fossils AFAWK),
> - pongids (Siva-Gigantopith etc.) remained aquarboreal & later suspensory.

> MV at aat.io
> Does not address these points.

Liar.
This alone proves how ridiculous yor are.

On Monday, August 23, 2021 at 6:16:46 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op maandag 23 augustus 2021 om 23:34:22 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > Elaine had very little to say on hylobatids.
> > What would she have said on hearing that among hominoids, only humans and gibbons:
> > - uniquely lack laryngeal air sacs
> > - uniquely have chins
> > - uniquely drink water with 2 cupped hands
> > - uniquely are obligate orthograde bipedalists
> > and that no Great ape shares any of these traits?
> > At c 15 Ma, hominids were West of the Mesopotamian Seaway closure (i.e. in the Tethys Sea = later Med.Sea), pongids East (i.e. Indian Ocean coasal forests), and forced hylobatids higher into the trees:
> > - hylobatids became smaller & faster brachiators (no fossils AFAWK),
> > - pongids (Siva-Gigantopith etc.) remained aquarboreal & later suspensory.
>
> > MV at aat.io
> > Does not address these points.

> Liar.
> This alone proves how ridiculous yor are.

No, Elaine would not have said that. She would have said something like this:
"That's a very interesting set of factoids. I don't know much about hylobatids, as I have focused on the differences between chimps and humans. Thank you."

Someday when MV gets past the insult & argument stage, we can actually rationally discuss hylobatids & Homo sapiens.

Op dinsdag 24 augustus 2021 om 01:22:04 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

> Someday when MV gets past the insult & argument stage, we can actually rationally discuss hylobatids & Homo sapiens.

No, my boy: you are not rational.

On Monday, August 23, 2021 at 7:30:27 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op dinsdag 24 augustus 2021 om 01:22:04 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > Someday when MV gets past the insult & argument stage, we can actually rationally discuss hylobatids & Homo sapiens.
> No, my boy: you are not rational.

As so obvious, we must be patient, MV has a lot of issues...

On Monday, August 23, 2021 at 5:34:22 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> Elaine had very little to say on hylobatids.
> What would she have said on hearing that among hominoids, only humans and gibbons:
> - uniquely lack laryngeal air sacs
> - uniquely have chins
> - uniquely drink water with 2 cupped hands
> - uniquely are obligate orthograde bipedalists

+ - uniquely have long Achilles tendons

> and that no Great ape shares any of these traits?

> At c 15 Ma, hominids were West of the Mesopotamian Seaway closure (i.e. in the Tethys Sea = later Med.Sea), pongids East (i.e. Indian Ocean coasal forests), and forced hylobatids higher into the trees:
> - hylobatids became smaller & faster brachiators (no fossils AFAWK),
> - pongids (Siva-Gigantopith etc.) remained aquarboreal & later suspensory.
> MV at aat.io
> Does not address these points.
> Why?

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:28:00 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Monday, August 23, 2021 at 5:34:22 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > Elaine had very little to say on hylobatids.
> > What would she have said on hearing that among hominoids, only humans and gibbons:
> > - uniquely lack laryngeal air sacs
> > - uniquely have chins
> > - uniquely drink water with 2 cupped hands
> > - uniquely are obligate orthograde bipedalists
> + - uniquely have long Achilles tendons
> > and that no Great ape shares any of these traits?
> > At c 15 Ma, hominids were West of the Mesopotamian Seaway closure (i.e. in the Tethys Sea = later Med.Sea), pongids East (i.e. Indian Ocean coasal forests), and forced hylobatids higher into the trees:
> > - hylobatids became smaller & faster brachiators (no fossils AFAWK),
> > - pongids (Siva-Gigantopith etc.) remained aquarboreal & later suspensory.
> > MV at aat.io
> > Does not address these points.
> > Why?

Spain 11.6ma ape with relatively large brain

RESEARCH ARTICLE
Miocene small-bodied ape from Eurasia sheds light on hominoid evolution
David M. Alba1,*, Sergio Almécija2,1, Daniel DeMiguel1, Josep Fortuny1, Miriam Pérez de los Ríos1, Marta Pina1, Josep M. Robles1,3, Salvador Moyà-Solà4
See all authors and affiliations

Science 30 Oct 2015:
Vol. 350, Issue 6260, aab2625
DOI: 10.1126/science.aab2625
Article
Figures & Data
Info & Metrics
eLetters
PDF
Meet your gibbon cousin
Apes are divided into two groups: larger-bodied apes, or hominoids, such as humans, chimps, and gorillas; and smaller-bodied hylobatids, such as gibbons. These two lineages are thought to have diverged rather cleanly, sharing few similarities after the emergence of crown hominoids. Alba et al. describe a new ape from the Miocene era that contains characteristics from both hominoids and small-bodied apes (see the Perspective by Benefit and McCrossin). Thus, early small-bodied apes may have contributed more to the evolution of the hominoid lineage than previously assumed.

Science, this issue p. 10.1126/science.aab2625; see also p. 515

Structured Abstract
INTRODUCTION
Reconstructing the ancestral morphotype from which extant hominoids (apes and humans) evolved is complicated by the mosaic nature of ape evolution, the confounding effects of independently evolved features (homoplasy), and the virtual lack of hylobatids (gibbons and siamangs) in the Miocene fossil record. For several decades, small-bodied anthropoid primates from Africa and Eurasia have not played an important role in this debate, because they generally lack the shared derived features of extant catarrhines (hominoids and Old World monkeys) and are thus considered to precede their divergence. Even some small-bodied catarrhines from Africa (dendropithecids), considered to be stem hominoids by some authors, are viewed as more primitive than the larger-bodied stem ape Proconsul. This has led to the assumption that hylobatids are a dwarfed lineage that evolved from a larger-bodied and more great ape–like common ancestor with hominids (great apes and humans)..

RATIONALE
Here we describe a new genus of small-bodied (4 to 5 kg) ape from the Miocene (11.6 Ma), discovered in the Abocador de Can Mata stratigraphic series (Vallès-Penedès Basin, northeast Iberian Peninsula), that challenges current views on the last common ancestor of extant hominoids. This genus is based on a partial skeleton that enables a reliable reconstruction of cranial morphology and a detailed assessment of elbow and wrist anatomy. It exhibits a mosaic of primitive (stem catarrhine–like) and derived (extant hominoid–like) features that forces us to reevaluate the role played by small-bodied catarrhines in ape evolution.

RESULTS
The new genus retains some features that are suggestive of generalized above-branch quadrupedalism, but it possesses more extensive hominoid-like postcranial features (mostly related to enhanced forearm rotation and ulnar deviation capabilities) than those convergently displayed by atelids. Its overall body plan is more compatible with an emphasis on cautious and eclectic climbing, combined with some degree of below-branch forelimb-dominated suspension (although less acrobatic than in extant gibbons). Its relative brain size implies a monkey-like degree of encephalization (similar to that of hylobatids but below that of great apes), and dental microwear indicates a frugivorous diet. From a phylogenetic viewpoint, the new genus combines craniodental and postcranial primitive features (similar to those of dendropithecids) with multiple derived cranial and postcranial features shared with extant hominoids. Some cranial similarities with gibbons would support a closer phylogenetic link between the new genus and hylobatids

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:28:00 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Monday, August 23, 2021 at 5:34:22 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > Elaine had very little to say on hylobatids.
> > What would she have said on hearing that among hominoids, only humans and gibbons:
> > - uniquely lack laryngeal air sacs
> > - uniquely have chins
> > - uniquely drink water with 2 cupped hands
> > - uniquely are obligate orthograde bipedalists
> + - uniquely have long Achilles tendons
> > and that no Great ape shares any of these traits?
> > At c 15 Ma, hominids were West of the Mesopotamian Seaway closure (i.e. in the Tethys Sea = later Med.Sea), pongids East (i.e. Indian Ocean coasal forests), and forced hylobatids higher into the trees:
> > - hylobatids became smaller & faster brachiators (no fossils AFAWK),
> > - pongids (Siva-Gigantopith etc.) remained aquarboreal & later suspensory.
> > MV at aat.io
> > Does not address these points.
> > Why?

3 of 9
13ma gibbon
60 views
DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves's profile photo
DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
Sep 9, 2020, 5:00:00 AM
to
https://scitechdaily-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/scitechdaily.com/new-fossil-ape-discovered-in-india-fills-major-gaps-in-the-primate-fossil-record/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fscitechdaily.com%2Fnew-fossil-ape-discovered-in-india-fills-major-gaps-in-the-primate-fossil-record%2F

Science

New Fossil Ape Discovered in India Fills Major Gaps in the Primate Fossil Record

By Arizona State University on Sep 08, 2020



Field site in Ramnagar, India. Credit: Christopher Gilbert

The 13-million-year-old gibbon ancestor fills major gaps in the primate fossil record.

A 13-million-year-old fossil unearthed in northern India comes from a newly discovered ape, the earliest known ancestor of the modern-day gibbon. The discovery by Christopher C. Gilbert, Hunter College, fills a major void in the ape fossil record and provides important new evidence about when the ancestors of today’s gibbon migrated to Asia from Africa.

The findings have been published in the article “New Middle Miocene ape (primates: Hylobatidae) from Ramnagar, India fills major gaps in the hominoid fossil record” in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B.

The fossil, a complete lower molar, belongs to a previously unknown genus and species (Kapi ramnagarensis) and represents the first new fossil ape species discovered at the famous fossil site of Ramnagar, India, in nearly a century.



Map illustrating the location of Kapi (black star) relative to modern (dark green) and historical (light green) populations of lesser apes and the approximate distribution of early fossil apes in East Africa (blue triangles). Green triangles mark the location of previously discovered fossil gibbons. The new fossil is millions of years older than any previously known fossil gibbon and highlights their migration from Africa to Asia. Credit: Illustration by Luci Betti-Nash

Gilbert’s find was serendipitous. Gilbert and team members Chris Campisano, Biren Patel, Rajeev Patnaik, and Premjit Singh were climbing a small hill in an area where a fossil primate jaw had been found the year before. While pausing for a short rest, Gilbert spotted something shiny in a small pile of dirt on the ground, so he dug it out and quickly realized he’d found something special.

“We knew immediately it was a primate tooth, but it did not look like the tooth of any of the primates previously found in the area,” he said. “From the shape and size of the molar, our initial guess was that it might be from a gibbon ancestor, but that seemed too good to be true, given that the fossil record of lesser apes is virtually nonexistent. There are other primate species known during that time, and no gibbon fossils have previously been found anywhere near Ramnagar. So we knew we would have to do our homework to figure out exactly what this little fossil was.”

Since the fossil’s discovery in 2015, years of study, analysis, and comparison were conducted to verify that the tooth belongs to a new species, as well as to accurately determine its place in the ape family tree. The molar was photographed and CT-scanned, and comparative samples of living and extinct ape teeth were examined to highlight important similarities and differences in dental anatomy.



The Ramnagar research team, (from left) N. P. Singh, R. Patnaik, C. Gilbert, B. Patel, and C. Campisano. Credit: Christopher Gilbert

“What we found was quite compelling and undeniably pointed to the close affinities of the 13-million-year-old tooth with gibbons,” said Alejandra Ortiz, who is part of the research team. “Even if, for now, we only have one tooth, and thus, we need to be cautious, this is a unique discovery. It pushes back the oldest known fossil record of gibbons by at least five million years, providing a much-needed glimpse into the early stages of their evolutionary history.”

In addition to determining that the new ape represents the earliest known fossil gibbon, the age of the fossil, around 13 million years old, is contemporaneous with well-known great ape fossils, providing evidence that the migration of great apes, including orangutan ancestors, and lesser apes from Africa to Asia happened around the same time and through the same places.

“I found the biogeographic component to be really interesting,” said Chris Campisano. “Today, gibbons and orangutans can both be found in Sumatra and Borneo in Southeast Asia, and the oldest fossil apes are from Africa. Knowing that gibbon and orangutan ancestors existed in the same spot together in northern India 13 million years ago, and may have a similar migration history across Asia, is pretty cool.”

###

Reference: “New Middle Miocene ape (primates: Hylobatidae) from Ramnagar, India fills major gaps in the hominoid fossil record” 8 September 2020, Proceedings of the Royal Society B.

The research team plans to continue research at Ramnagar, having recently received a grant from the National Science Foundation to continue their ongoing search for ape fossils.

Article coauthors include Chris Gilbert Anthropology, Hunter College, and the Graduate Center (both of the City University of New York); Alejandra Ortiz, New York University and the Institute of Human Origins, Arizona State University; Kelsey D. Pugh, American Museum of Natural History; Christopher J. Campisano, Institute of Human Origins and the School of Human Evolution and Social Change, Arizona State University; Biren A. Patel, Keck School of Medicine and the Department of Biological Sciences, University of Southern California; Ningthoujam Premjit Singh, Department of Geology, Panjab University; John G. Fleagle, Department of Anatomical Sciences, Stony Brook University; and Rajeev Patnaik, Department of Geology, Panjab University.

This research at Ramnagar was funded by the Leakey Foundation, the PSC-CUNY faculty award program, Hunter College, the AAPA professional development program, the University of Southern California, the Institute of Human Origins (Arizona State University), and the National Science Foundation. Indian colleagues are further supported by the Indian Ministry of Earth Sciences and Science and Engineering Research Board.

COPYRIGHT © 1998 - 2020 SCITECHDAILY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves's profile photo
DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
Sep 9, 2020, 5:08:47 AM
to
↰ sci.anthropology.paleo
LCA H/P: Himalayan foothills?

Last Common Ancestor of Homo & Pan may have lived in mid-high elevation hills. Tropical ecosystems tend to produce tall trees with large fruits and nuts, subarctic & montane ecosystems tend to produce small trees with berries and small nuts.

Chimps can hang upright while footplucking large fruit, humans can stand upright while handplucking small fruit.

A hylobatid does both, and has a short neck that prevents extending the mouth towards hanging fruit, giraffelike, or a trunk, elephantlike, or a prehensile tail or horns.

Humans have both a power grip (branch-hanging) and a precision grip (berry picking).

Although macaques and gibbons live in rainforest basins, they also live in high Himalayan valleys not exposed to weather extremes, eg. Terai valley.

(Humans have modified these areas for terraced agriculture, but some still remain heavily forested. Tigers lived all around the Himalayas until recently, eg. Armenia.)

After the H/P split, the thick hylobatid fur was reduced to patches of long hair, short coarse hair, and invisible fine hair.

Cliffs may have been part of the arboreal mid-high-elevation forest along cold-water shallow crystalline streams where the hylobatid ancestor of H/P lived.
-
IIRC Jeff Schwartz wrote about the many morphological similarities shared by Homo & orangutan not found in chimp or gorilla.

Is there a similar listing of shared hylobatid & Homo traits not found in chimp, gorilla or orangutan?

1) External chin

2) Monogamy-pair bonding (permanent or serial)

3) Paternal teaching of locomotion: walk upright (Hy) / bicycle upright (Ho)

4) Long thorax spinal vertebrae

5) No arboreal bowl nest construction

6) Always upright bipedal, no-hand walking

7) Inhabit zone above-around shallow crystalline streams, not swamps

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 1:07:21 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:28:00 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Monday, August 23, 2021 at 5:34:22 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > > Elaine had very little to say on hylobatids.
> > > What would she have said on hearing that among hominoids, only humans and gibbons:
> > > - uniquely lack laryngeal air sacs
> > > - uniquely have chins
> > > - uniquely drink water with 2 cupped hands
> > > - uniquely are obligate orthograde bipedalists
> > + - uniquely have long Achilles tendons
> > > and that no Great ape shares any of these traits?
> > > At c 15 Ma, hominids were West of the Mesopotamian Seaway closure (i.e. in the Tethys Sea = later Med.Sea), pongids East (i.e. Indian Ocean coasal forests), and forced hylobatids higher into the trees:
> > > - hylobatids became smaller & faster brachiators (no fossils AFAWK),
> > > - pongids (Siva-Gigantopith etc.) remained aquarboreal & later suspensory.
> > > MV at aat.io
> > > Does not address these points.
> > > Why?
> 3 of 9
> 13ma gibbon
> 60 views
> DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves's profile photo
> DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
> Sep 9, 2020, 5:00:00 AM
> to
> https://scitechdaily-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/scitechdaily.com/new-fossil-ape-discovered-in-india-fills-major-gaps-in-the-primate-fossil-record/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fscitechdaily.com%2Fnew-fossil-ape-discovered-in-india-fills-major-gaps-in-the-primate-fossil-record%2F
>
>
>
> Science
>
> New Fossil Ape Discovered in India Fills Major Gaps in the Primate Fossil Record
>
> By Arizona State University on Sep 08, 2020
>
> 
>
> Field site in Ramnagar, India. Credit: Christopher Gilbert
>
> The 13-million-year-old gibbon ancestor fills major gaps in the primate fossil record.
>
> A 13-million-year-old fossil unearthed in northern India comes from a newly discovered ape, the earliest known ancestor of the modern-day gibbon. The discovery by Christopher C. Gilbert, Hunter College, fills a major void in the ape fossil record and provides important new evidence about when the ancestors of today’s gibbon migrated to Asia from Africa.
>
> The findings have been published in the article “New Middle Miocene ape (primates: Hylobatidae) from Ramnagar, India fills major gaps in the hominoid fossil record” in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B.
>
> The fossil, a complete lower molar, belongs to a previously unknown genus and species (Kapi ramnagarensis) and represents the first new fossil ape species discovered at the famous fossil site of Ramnagar, India, in nearly a century.
>
> 
>
> Map illustrating the location of Kapi (black star) relative to modern (dark green) and historical (light green) populations of lesser apes and the approximate distribution of early fossil apes in East Africa (blue triangles). Green triangles mark the location of previously discovered fossil gibbons. The new fossil is millions of years older than any previously known fossil gibbon and highlights their migration from Africa to Asia. Credit: Illustration by Luci Betti-Nash
>
> Gilbert’s find was serendipitous. Gilbert and team members Chris Campisano, Biren Patel, Rajeev Patnaik, and Premjit Singh were climbing a small hill in an area where a fossil primate jaw had been found the year before. While pausing for a short rest, Gilbert spotted something shiny in a small pile of dirt on the ground, so he dug it out and quickly realized he’d found something special.
>
> “We knew immediately it was a primate tooth, but it did not look like the tooth of any of the primates previously found in the area,” he said. “From the shape and size of the molar, our initial guess was that it might be from a gibbon ancestor, but that seemed too good to be true, given that the fossil record of lesser apes is virtually nonexistent. There are other primate species known during that time, and no gibbon fossils have previously been found anywhere near Ramnagar. So we knew we would have to do our homework to figure out exactly what this little fossil was.”
>
> Since the fossil’s discovery in 2015, years of study, analysis, and comparison were conducted to verify that the tooth belongs to a new species, as well as to accurately determine its place in the ape family tree. The molar was photographed and CT-scanned, and comparative samples of living and extinct ape teeth were examined to highlight important similarities and differences in dental anatomy.
>
> 
>
> The Ramnagar research team, (from left) N. P. Singh, R. Patnaik, C. Gilbert, B. Patel, and C. Campisano. Credit: Christopher Gilbert
>
> “What we found was quite compelling and undeniably pointed to the close affinities of the 13-million-year-old tooth with gibbons,” said Alejandra Ortiz, who is part of the research team. “Even if, for now, we only have one tooth, and thus, we need to be cautious, this is a unique discovery. It pushes back the oldest known fossil record of gibbons by at least five million years, providing a much-needed glimpse into the early stages of their evolutionary history.”
>
> In addition to determining that the new ape represents the earliest known fossil gibbon, the age of the fossil, around 13 million years old, is contemporaneous with well-known great ape fossils, providing evidence that the migration of great apes, including orangutan ancestors, and lesser apes from Africa to Asia happened around the same time and through the same places.
>
> “I found the biogeographic component to be really interesting,” said Chris Campisano. “Today, gibbons and orangutans can both be found in Sumatra and Borneo in Southeast Asia, and the oldest fossil apes are from Africa. Knowing that gibbon and orangutan ancestors existed in the same spot together in northern India 13 million years ago, and may have a similar migration history across Asia, is pretty cool.”
>
> ###
>
> Reference: “New Middle Miocene ape (primates: Hylobatidae) from Ramnagar, India fills major gaps in the hominoid fossil record” 8 September 2020, Proceedings of the Royal Society B.
>
> The research team plans to continue research at Ramnagar, having recently received a grant from the National Science Foundation to continue their ongoing search for ape fossils.
>
> Article coauthors include Chris Gilbert Anthropology, Hunter College, and the Graduate Center (both of the City University of New York); Alejandra Ortiz, New York University and the Institute of Human Origins, Arizona State University; Kelsey D. Pugh, American Museum of Natural History; Christopher J. Campisano, Institute of Human Origins and the School of Human Evolution and Social Change, Arizona State University; Biren A. Patel, Keck School of Medicine and the Department of Biological Sciences, University of Southern California; Ningthoujam Premjit Singh, Department of Geology, Panjab University; John G. Fleagle, Department of Anatomical Sciences, Stony Brook University; and Rajeev Patnaik, Department of Geology, Panjab University.
>
> This research at Ramnagar was funded by the Leakey Foundation, the PSC-CUNY faculty award program, Hunter College, the AAPA professional development program, the University of Southern California, the Institute of Human Origins (Arizona State University), and the National Science Foundation. Indian colleagues are further supported by the Indian Ministry of Earth Sciences and Science and Engineering Research Board.
>
>
> COPYRIGHT © 1998 - 2020 SCITECHDAILY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
>
> DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves's profile photo
> DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
> Sep 9, 2020, 5:08:47 AM
> to
> ↰ sci.anthropology.paleo
> LCA H/P: Himalayan foothills?
>
> Last Common Ancestor of Homo & Pan may have lived in mid-high elevation hills. Tropical ecosystems tend to produce tall trees with large fruits and nuts, subarctic & montane ecosystems tend to produce small trees with berries and small nuts.
>
> Chimps can hang upright while footplucking large fruit, humans can stand upright while handplucking small fruit.
>
> A hylobatid does both, and has a short neck that prevents extending the mouth towards hanging fruit, giraffelike, or a trunk, elephantlike, or a prehensile tail or horns.
>
> Humans have both a power grip (branch-hanging) and a precision grip (berry picking).
>
> Although macaques and gibbons live in rainforest basins, they also live in high Himalayan valleys not exposed to weather extremes, eg. Terai valley.
>
> (Humans have modified these areas for terraced agriculture, but some still remain heavily forested. Tigers lived all around the Himalayas until recently, eg. Armenia.)
>
> After the H/P split, the thick hylobatid fur was reduced to patches of long hair, short coarse hair, and invisible fine hair.
>
> Cliffs may have been part of the arboreal mid-high-elevation forest along cold-water shallow crystalline streams where the hylobatid ancestor of H/P lived.
> -
> IIRC Jeff Schwartz wrote about the many morphological similarities shared by Homo & orangutan not found in chimp or gorilla.
>
> Is there a similar listing of shared hylobatid & Homo traits not found in chimp, gorilla or orangutan?
>
>
> 1) External chin
>
> 2) Monogamy-pair bonding (permanent or serial)
>
> 3) Paternal teaching of locomotion: walk upright (Hy) / bicycle upright (Ho)
>
> 4) Long thorax spinal vertebrae
>
> 5) No arboreal bowl nest construction
>
> 6) Always upright bipedal, no-hand walking
>
> 7) Inhabit zone above-around shallow crystalline streams, not swamps
>
> 8) Have very long achilles tendon
>
> 9) Do not swagger sideways while walking on level ground
>
> 10) Relatively fast bipedal striding gait
>
> 11) Very little sexual dimorphism in body size & canine size
>
> https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/hominoid-origins-135874580/
>
> Although paleoanthropologists are unable to determine the phylogenetic placement of “dental apes” or Kamoyapithecus with confidence, there is broad support for the hypothesis that Proconsul, Afropithecus and Morotopithecus are stem hominoids, rather than stem catarrhines. As a window into early hominoid evolution, these taxa suggest the following:
>
> 1) Large body size, enlargement of the anterior dentition, and subtle changes in the posterior dentition (e.g., more elongated molars and changes in molar cusp placement and cingulum development) suggest occupation of fundamentally different ecological niches than those of stem catarrhines. Large canines function in both food procurement and in sexual selection, with pronounced dimorphism suggesting the latter was a factor. Large size allows access to new foods and improves foraging flexibility (Wheatley, 1987), decreases predation risks, promotes survivorship and, coupled with factors such as habitat stability, may be linked to delayed maturation. Analysis of the dental development pattern of Afropithecus (and possibly Proconsul) suggests delayed maturation relative to other anthropoids (Kelley, 1997, 2002), making slow life history another possible stem hominoid synapomorphy.
>
> 2) By the early Miocene, there is at least modest locomotor and dietary diversity among the large-bodied probable stem hominoids, indicating the beginnings of a true adaptive radiation, with increasing body size, increasing locomotor novelty and more specialized exploitation of arboreal food sources evolving concurrently.
>
> 3) It is not currently resolvable which anatomical features associated with orthogrady and joint mobility in modern apes are homologous or homoplastic (e.g., Harrison, 1991; Larson, 1998; Young, 2003; MacLatchy, 2004 & 2010; Lovejoy et al., 2009). This debate has implications for interpreting the evolutionary position of purported stem hominoids, and for reconstructing the pattern and timing of the emergence of modern ape adaptations.

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 4:17:27 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 1:07:21 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:28:00 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 23, 2021 at 5:34:22 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > > > Elaine had very little to say on hylobatids.
> > > > What would she have said on hearing that among hominoids, only humans and gibbons:
> > > > - uniquely lack laryngeal air sacs
> > > > - uniquely have chins
> > > > - uniquely drink water with 2 cupped hands
> > > > - uniquely are obligate orthograde bipedalists
> > > + - uniquely have long Achilles tendons
> > > > and that no Great ape shares any of these traits?
> > > > At c 15 Ma, hominids were West of the Mesopotamian Seaway closure (i.e. in the Tethys Sea = later Med.Sea), pongids East (i.e. Indian Ocean coasal forests), and forced hylobatids higher into the trees:
> > > > - hylobatids became smaller & faster brachiators (no fossils AFAWK),
> > > > - pongids (Siva-Gigantopith etc.) remained aquarboreal & later suspensory.
> > > > MV at aat.io
> > > > Does not address these points.
> > > > Why?
> > 3 of 9
> > 13ma gibbon
> > 60 views
> > DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves's profile photo
> > DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
> > Sep 9, 2020, 5:00:00 AM
> > to
> > https://scitechdaily-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/scitechdaily.com/new-fossil-ape-discovered-in-india-fills-major-gaps-in-the-primate-fossil-record/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fscitechdaily.com%2Fnew-fossil-ape-discovered-in-india-fills-major-gaps-in-the-primate-fossil-record%2F
> >
> >
> >
> > Science
> >
> > New Fossil Ape Discovered in India Fills Major Gaps in the Primate Fossil Record
> >
> > By Arizona State University on Sep 08, 2020
> >
> > 
> >
> > Field site in Ramnagar, India. Credit: Christopher Gilbert
> >
> > The 13-million-year-old gibbon ancestor fills major gaps in the primate fossil record.
> >
> > A 13-million-year-old fossil unearthed in northern India comes from a newly discovered ape, the earliest known ancestor of the modern-day gibbon. The discovery by Christopher C. Gilbert, Hunter College, fills a major void in the ape fossil record and provides important new evidence about when the ancestors of today’s gibbon migrated to Asia from Africa.
> >
> > The findings have been published in the article “New Middle Miocene ape (primates: Hylobatidae) from Ramnagar, India fills major gaps in the hominoid fossil record” in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B.
> >
> > The fossil, a complete lower molar, belongs to a previously unknown genus and species (Kapi ramnagarensis) and represents the first new fossil ape species discovered at the famous fossil site of Ramnagar, India, in nearly a century.
> >
> > 
> >
> > Map illustrating the location of Kapi (black star) relative to modern (dark green) and historical (light green) populations of lesser apes and the approximate distribution of early fossil apes in East Africa (blue triangles). Green triangles mark the location of previously discovered fossil gibbons. The new fossil is millions of years older than any previously known fossil gibbon and highlights their migration from Africa to Asia. Credit: Illustration by Luci Betti-Nash
> >
> > Gilbert’s find was serendipitous. Gilbert and team members Chris Campisano, Biren Patel, Rajeev Patnaik, and Premjit Singh were climbing a small hill in an area where a fossil primate jaw had been found the year before. While pausing for a short rest, Gilbert spotted something shiny in a small pile of dirt on the ground, so he dug it out and quickly realized he’d found something special.
> >
> > “We knew immediately it was a primate tooth, but it did not look like the tooth of any of the primates previously found in the area,” he said. “From the shape and size of the molar, our initial guess was that it might be from a gibbon ancestor, but that seemed too good to be true, given that the fossil record of lesser apes is virtually nonexistent. There are other primate species known during that time, and no gibbon fossils have previously been found anywhere near Ramnagar. So we knew we would have to do our homework to figure out exactly what this little fossil was.”
> >
> > Since the fossil’s discovery in 2015, years of study, analysis, and comparison were conducted to verify that the tooth belongs to a new species, as well as to accurately determine its place in the ape family tree. The molar was photographed and CT-scanned, and comparative samples of living and extinct ape teeth were examined to highlight important similarities and differences in dental anatomy.
> >
> > 
> >
> > The Ramnagar research team, (from left) N. P. Singh, R. Patnaik, C. Gilbert, B. Patel, and C. Campisano. Credit: Christopher Gilbert
> >
> > “What we found was quite compelling and undeniably pointed to the close affinities of the 13-million-year-old tooth with gibbons,” said Alejandra Ortiz, who is part of the research team. “Even if, for now, we only have one tooth, and thus, we need to be cautious, this is a unique discovery. It pushes back the oldest known fossil record of gibbons by at least five million years, providing a much-needed glimpse into the early stages of their evolutionary history.”
> >
> > In addition to determining that the new ape represents the earliest known fossil gibbon, the age of the fossil, around 13 million years old, is contemporaneous with well-known great ape fossils, providing evidence that the migration of great apes, including orangutan ancestors, and lesser apes from Africa to Asia happened around the same time and through the same places.
> >
> > “I found the biogeographic component to be really interesting,” said Chris Campisano. “Today, gibbons and orangutans can both be found in Sumatra and Borneo in Southeast Asia, and the oldest fossil apes are from Africa. Knowing that gibbon and orangutan ancestors existed in the same spot together in northern India 13 million years ago, and may have a similar migration history across Asia, is pretty cool.”
> >
> > ###
> >
> > Reference: “New Middle Miocene ape (primates: Hylobatidae) from Ramnagar, India fills major gaps in the hominoid fossil record” 8 September 2020, Proceedings of the Royal Society B.
> >
> > The research team plans to continue research at Ramnagar, having recently received a grant from the National Science Foundation to continue their ongoing search for ape fossils.
> >
> > Article coauthors include Chris Gilbert Anthropology, Hunter College, and the Graduate Center (both of the City University of New York); Alejandra Ortiz, New York University and the Institute of Human Origins, Arizona State University; Kelsey D. Pugh, American Museum of Natural History; Christopher J. Campisano, Institute of Human Origins and the School of Human Evolution and Social Change, Arizona State University; Biren A. Patel, Keck School of Medicine and the Department of Biological Sciences, University of Southern California; Ningthoujam Premjit Singh, Department of Geology, Panjab University; John G. Fleagle, Department of Anatomical Sciences, Stony Brook University; and Rajeev Patnaik, Department of Geology, Panjab University.
> >
> > This research at Ramnagar was funded by the Leakey Foundation, the PSC-CUNY faculty award program, Hunter College, the AAPA professional development program, the University of Southern California, the Institute of Human Origins (Arizona State University), and the National Science Foundation. Indian colleagues are further supported by the Indian Ministry of Earth Sciences and Science and Engineering Research Board.
> >
> >
> > COPYRIGHT © 1998 - 2020 SCITECHDAILY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
> >
> > DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves's profile photo
> > DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
> > Sep 9, 2020, 5:08:47 AM
> > to
> > ↰ sci.anthropology.paleo
> > LCA H/P: Himalayan foothills?
> >
> > Last Common Ancestor of Homo & Pan may have lived in mid-high elevation hills. Tropical ecosystems tend to produce tall trees with large fruits and nuts, subarctic & montane ecosystems tend to produce small trees with berries and small nuts.
> >
> > Chimps can hang upright while footplucking large fruit, humans can stand upright while handplucking small fruit.
> >
> > A hylobatid does both, and has a short neck that prevents extending the mouth towards hanging fruit, giraffelike, or a trunk, elephantlike, or a prehensile tail or horns.
> >
> > Humans have both a power grip (branch-hanging) and a precision grip (berry picking).
> >
> > Although macaques and gibbons live in rainforest basins, they also live in high Himalayan valleys not exposed to weather extremes, eg. Terai valley.
> >
> > (Humans have modified these areas for terraced agriculture, but some still remain heavily forested. Tigers lived all around the Himalayas until recently, eg. Armenia.)
> >
> > After the H/P split, the thick hylobatid fur was reduced to patches of long hair, short coarse hair, and invisible fine hair.
> >
> > Cliffs may have been part of the arboreal mid-high-elevation forest along cold-water shallow crystalline streams where the hylobatid ancestor of H/P lived.
> > -
> > IIRC Jeff Schwartz wrote about the many morphological similarities shared by Homo & orangutan not found in chimp or gorilla.
> >
> > Is there a similar listing of shared hylobatid & Homo traits not found in chimp, gorilla or orangutan?
> >
> >
> > 1) External chin
> >
> > 2) Monogamy-pair bonding (permanent or serial)
> >
> > 3) Paternal teaching of locomotion: walk upright (Hy) / bicycle upright (Ho)
> >
> > 4) Long thorax spinal vertebrae
> >
> > 5) No arboreal bowl nest construction
> >
> > 6) Always upright bipedal, no-hand walking
> >
> > 7) Inhabit zone above-around shallow crystalline streams, not swamps
> >
> > 8) Have very long achilles tendon
> >
> > 9) Do not swagger sideways while walking on level ground
> >
> > 10) Relatively fast bipedal striding gait
> >
> > 11) Very little sexual dimorphism in body size & canine size
> >
> > https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/hominoid-origins-135874580/
> >
> > Although paleoanthropologists are unable to determine the phylogenetic placement of “dental apes” or Kamoyapithecus with confidence, there is broad support for the hypothesis that Proconsul, Afropithecus and Morotopithecus are stem hominoids, rather than stem catarrhines. As a window into early hominoid evolution, these taxa suggest the following:
> >
> > 1) Large body size, enlargement of the anterior dentition, and subtle changes in the posterior dentition (e.g., more elongated molars and changes in molar cusp placement and cingulum development) suggest occupation of fundamentally different ecological niches than those of stem catarrhines. Large canines function in both food procurement and in sexual selection, with pronounced dimorphism suggesting the latter was a factor. Large size allows access to new foods and improves foraging flexibility (Wheatley, 1987), decreases predation risks, promotes survivorship and, coupled with factors such as habitat stability, may be linked to delayed maturation. Analysis of the dental development pattern of Afropithecus (and possibly Proconsul) suggests delayed maturation relative to other anthropoids (Kelley, 1997, 2002), making slow life history another possible stem hominoid synapomorphy.
> >
> > 2) By the early Miocene, there is at least modest locomotor and dietary diversity among the large-bodied probable stem hominoids, indicating the beginnings of a true adaptive radiation, with increasing body size, increasing locomotor novelty and more specialized exploitation of arboreal food sources evolving concurrently.
> >
> > 3) It is not currently resolvable which anatomical features associated with orthogrady and joint mobility in modern apes are homologous or homoplastic (e.g., Harrison, 1991; Larson, 1998; Young, 2003; MacLatchy, 2004 & 2010; Lovejoy et al., 2009). This debate has implications for interpreting the evolutionary position of purported stem hominoids, and for reconstructing the pattern and timing of the emergence of modern ape adaptations.
> -
>
> Gibbon can jump distance of 50 feet at the speed of 35 miles per hour after single swing. Gibbon is the fastest non-flying arboreal mammal.
> Gibbon walks using only legs (bipedal walking). Arms are used for balancing. They walk on two legs both on the ground and on the trees.
> Gibbons avoid water because they don't swim.
>
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-92348-z
>
> Contrary to recent discussions, we found chimpanzee eyes to exhibit a cryptic coloration scheme that resembles gibbons more than other apes. We reevaluate the evidence for links between social cognition and eye pigmentation in primates, concluding that the cooperative eye hypothesis cannot explain the patterns observed. Differences in scleral pigmentation between great apes and humans are gradual and might have arisen via genetic drift and sexual selection.
>
> Kenya 13ma gibbon-like ape
> The most complete extinct-ape skull ever found reveals what the last common ancestor of all living apes and humans might have looked like, according to a new study.
>
> The 13-million-year-old infant skull, which its discoverers nicknamed “Alesi,” was unearthed in Kenya in 2014. It likely belonged to a fruit-eating, slow-climbing primate that resembled a baby gibbon, the researchers said.
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fossil-reveals-what-last-common-ancestor-of-humans-and-apes-looked-liked/
>
> Kenyan fossil hunter John Ekusi discovered the skull in 2014 in the Napudet area, west of Lake Turkana in northern Kenya. He suggested its nickname, “Alesi,” because “ales” means “ancestor” in the local Turkana language.
>
> “The Napudet locality offers us a rare glimpse of an African landscape 13 million years ago,” study co-author Craig Feibel, chair of the anthropology department at Rutgers University in New Jersey, said in a statement. “A nearby volcano buried the forest where the baby ape lived, preserving the fossil and countless trees. It also provided us with the critical volcanic minerals by which we were able to date the fossil.”
>
> This is the first ape cranium unearthed from between 10 million and 14 million years ago, and the most complete one discovered from between 7 million and 17 million years ago
-

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 4:17:27 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 1:07:21 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:28:00 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 23, 2021 at 5:34:22 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > > > Elaine had very little to say on hylobatids.
> > > > What would she have said on hearing that among hominoids, only humans and gibbons:
> > > > - uniquely lack laryngeal air sacs
> > > > - uniquely have chins
> > > > - uniquely drink water with 2 cupped hands
> > > > - uniquely are obligate orthograde bipedalists
> > > + - uniquely have long Achilles tendons
> > > > and that no Great ape shares any of these traits?
> > > > At c 15 Ma, hominids were West of the Mesopotamian Seaway closure (i.e. in the Tethys Sea = later Med.Sea), pongids East (i.e. Indian Ocean coasal forests), and forced hylobatids higher into the trees:
> > > > - hylobatids became smaller & faster brachiators (no fossils AFAWK),
> > > > - pongids (Siva-Gigantopith etc.) remained aquarboreal & later suspensory.
> > > > MV at aat.io
> > > > Does not address these points.
> > > > Why?
> > 3 of 9
> > 13ma gibbon
> > 60 views
> > DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves's profile photo
> > DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
> > Sep 9, 2020, 5:00:00 AM
> > to
> > https://scitechdaily-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/scitechdaily.com/new-fossil-ape-discovered-in-india-fills-major-gaps-in-the-primate-fossil-record/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fscitechdaily.com%2Fnew-fossil-ape-discovered-in-india-fills-major-gaps-in-the-primate-fossil-record%2F
> >
> >
> >
> > Science
> >
> > New Fossil Ape Discovered in India Fills Major Gaps in the Primate Fossil Record
> >
> > By Arizona State University on Sep 08, 2020
> >
> > 
> >
> > Field site in Ramnagar, India. Credit: Christopher Gilbert
> >
> > The 13-million-year-old gibbon ancestor fills major gaps in the primate fossil record.
> >
> > A 13-million-year-old fossil unearthed in northern India comes from a newly discovered ape, the earliest known ancestor of the modern-day gibbon. The discovery by Christopher C. Gilbert, Hunter College, fills a major void in the ape fossil record and provides important new evidence about when the ancestors of today’s gibbon migrated to Asia from Africa.
> >
> > The findings have been published in the article “New Middle Miocene ape (primates: Hylobatidae) from Ramnagar, India fills major gaps in the hominoid fossil record” in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B.
> >
> > The fossil, a complete lower molar, belongs to a previously unknown genus and species (Kapi ramnagarensis) and represents the first new fossil ape species discovered at the famous fossil site of Ramnagar, India, in nearly a century.
> >
> > 
> >
> > Map illustrating the location of Kapi (black star) relative to modern (dark green) and historical (light green) populations of lesser apes and the approximate distribution of early fossil apes in East Africa (blue triangles). Green triangles mark the location of previously discovered fossil gibbons. The new fossil is millions of years older than any previously known fossil gibbon and highlights their migration from Africa to Asia. Credit: Illustration by Luci Betti-Nash
> >
> > Gilbert’s find was serendipitous. Gilbert and team members Chris Campisano, Biren Patel, Rajeev Patnaik, and Premjit Singh were climbing a small hill in an area where a fossil primate jaw had been found the year before. While pausing for a short rest, Gilbert spotted something shiny in a small pile of dirt on the ground, so he dug it out and quickly realized he’d found something special.
> >
> > “We knew immediately it was a primate tooth, but it did not look like the tooth of any of the primates previously found in the area,” he said. “From the shape and size of the molar, our initial guess was that it might be from a gibbon ancestor, but that seemed too good to be true, given that the fossil record of lesser apes is virtually nonexistent. There are other primate species known during that time, and no gibbon fossils have previously been found anywhere near Ramnagar. So we knew we would have to do our homework to figure out exactly what this little fossil was.”
> >
> > Since the fossil’s discovery in 2015, years of study, analysis, and comparison were conducted to verify that the tooth belongs to a new species, as well as to accurately determine its place in the ape family tree. The molar was photographed and CT-scanned, and comparative samples of living and extinct ape teeth were examined to highlight important similarities and differences in dental anatomy.
> >
> > 
> >
> > The Ramnagar research team, (from left) N. P. Singh, R. Patnaik, C. Gilbert, B. Patel, and C. Campisano. Credit: Christopher Gilbert
> >
> > “What we found was quite compelling and undeniably pointed to the close affinities of the 13-million-year-old tooth with gibbons,” said Alejandra Ortiz, who is part of the research team. “Even if, for now, we only have one tooth, and thus, we need to be cautious, this is a unique discovery. It pushes back the oldest known fossil record of gibbons by at least five million years, providing a much-needed glimpse into the early stages of their evolutionary history.”
> >
> > In addition to determining that the new ape represents the earliest known fossil gibbon, the age of the fossil, around 13 million years old, is contemporaneous with well-known great ape fossils, providing evidence that the migration of great apes, including orangutan ancestors, and lesser apes from Africa to Asia happened around the same time and through the same places.
> >
> > “I found the biogeographic component to be really interesting,” said Chris Campisano. “Today, gibbons and orangutans can both be found in Sumatra and Borneo in Southeast Asia, and the oldest fossil apes are from Africa. Knowing that gibbon and orangutan ancestors existed in the same spot together in northern India 13 million years ago, and may have a similar migration history across Asia, is pretty cool.”
> >
> > ###
> >
> > Reference: “New Middle Miocene ape (primates: Hylobatidae) from Ramnagar, India fills major gaps in the hominoid fossil record” 8 September 2020, Proceedings of the Royal Society B.
> >
> > The research team plans to continue research at Ramnagar, having recently received a grant from the National Science Foundation to continue their ongoing search for ape fossils.
> >
> > Article coauthors include Chris Gilbert Anthropology, Hunter College, and the Graduate Center (both of the City University of New York); Alejandra Ortiz, New York University and the Institute of Human Origins, Arizona State University; Kelsey D. Pugh, American Museum of Natural History; Christopher J. Campisano, Institute of Human Origins and the School of Human Evolution and Social Change, Arizona State University; Biren A. Patel, Keck School of Medicine and the Department of Biological Sciences, University of Southern California; Ningthoujam Premjit Singh, Department of Geology, Panjab University; John G. Fleagle, Department of Anatomical Sciences, Stony Brook University; and Rajeev Patnaik, Department of Geology, Panjab University.
> >
> > This research at Ramnagar was funded by the Leakey Foundation, the PSC-CUNY faculty award program, Hunter College, the AAPA professional development program, the University of Southern California, the Institute of Human Origins (Arizona State University), and the National Science Foundation. Indian colleagues are further supported by the Indian Ministry of Earth Sciences and Science and Engineering Research Board.
> >
> >
> > COPYRIGHT © 1998 - 2020 SCITECHDAILY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
> >
> > DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves's profile photo
> > DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
> > Sep 9, 2020, 5:08:47 AM
> > to
> > ↰ sci.anthropology.paleo
> > LCA H/P: Himalayan foothills?
> >
> > Last Common Ancestor of Homo & Pan may have lived in mid-high elevation hills. Tropical ecosystems tend to produce tall trees with large fruits and nuts, subarctic & montane ecosystems tend to produce small trees with berries and small nuts.
> >
> > Chimps can hang upright while footplucking large fruit, humans can stand upright while handplucking small fruit.
> >
> > A hylobatid does both, and has a short neck that prevents extending the mouth towards hanging fruit, giraffelike, or a trunk, elephantlike, or a prehensile tail or horns.
> >
> > Humans have both a power grip (branch-hanging) and a precision grip (berry picking).
> >
> > Although macaques and gibbons live in rainforest basins, they also live in high Himalayan valleys not exposed to weather extremes, eg. Terai valley.
> >
> > (Humans have modified these areas for terraced agriculture, but some still remain heavily forested. Tigers lived all around the Himalayas until recently, eg. Armenia.)
> >
> > After the H/P split, the thick hylobatid fur was reduced to patches of long hair, short coarse hair, and invisible fine hair.
> >
> > Cliffs may have been part of the arboreal mid-high-elevation forest along cold-water shallow crystalline streams where the hylobatid ancestor of H/P lived.
> > -
> > IIRC Jeff Schwartz wrote about the many morphological similarities shared by Homo & orangutan not found in chimp or gorilla.
> >
> > Is there a similar listing of shared hylobatid & Homo traits not found in chimp, gorilla or orangutan?
> >
> >
> > 1) External chin
> >
> > 2) Monogamy-pair bonding (permanent or serial)
> >
> > 3) Paternal teaching of locomotion: walk upright (Hy) / bicycle upright (Ho)
> >
> > 4) Long thorax spinal vertebrae
> >
> > 5) No arboreal bowl nest construction
> >
> > 6) Always upright bipedal, no-hand walking
> >
> > 7) Inhabit zone above-around shallow crystalline streams, not swamps
> >
> > 8) Have very long achilles tendon
> >
> > 9) Do not swagger sideways while walking on level ground
> >
> > 10) Relatively fast bipedal striding gait
> >
> > 11) Very little sexual dimorphism in body size & canine size
> >
> > https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/hominoid-origins-135874580/
> >
> > Although paleoanthropologists are unable to determine the phylogenetic placement of “dental apes” or Kamoyapithecus with confidence, there is broad support for the hypothesis that Proconsul, Afropithecus and Morotopithecus are stem hominoids, rather than stem catarrhines. As a window into early hominoid evolution, these taxa suggest the following:
> >
> > 1) Large body size, enlargement of the anterior dentition, and subtle changes in the posterior dentition (e.g., more elongated molars and changes in molar cusp placement and cingulum development) suggest occupation of fundamentally different ecological niches than those of stem catarrhines. Large canines function in both food procurement and in sexual selection, with pronounced dimorphism suggesting the latter was a factor. Large size allows access to new foods and improves foraging flexibility (Wheatley, 1987), decreases predation risks, promotes survivorship and, coupled with factors such as habitat stability, may be linked to delayed maturation. Analysis of the dental development pattern of Afropithecus (and possibly Proconsul) suggests delayed maturation relative to other anthropoids (Kelley, 1997, 2002), making slow life history another possible stem hominoid synapomorphy.
> >
> > 2) By the early Miocene, there is at least modest locomotor and dietary diversity among the large-bodied probable stem hominoids, indicating the beginnings of a true adaptive radiation, with increasing body size, increasing locomotor novelty and more specialized exploitation of arboreal food sources evolving concurrently.
> >
> > 3) It is not currently resolvable which anatomical features associated with orthogrady and joint mobility in modern apes are homologous or homoplastic (e.g., Harrison, 1991; Larson, 1998; Young, 2003; MacLatchy, 2004 & 2010; Lovejoy et al., 2009). This debate has implications for interpreting the evolutionary position of purported stem hominoids, and for reconstructing the pattern and timing of the emergence of modern ape adaptations.
> -
>
> Gibbon can jump distance of 50 feet at the speed of 35 miles per hour after single swing. Gibbon is the fastest non-flying arboreal mammal.
> Gibbon walks using only legs (bipedal walking). Arms are used for balancing. They walk on two legs both on the ground and on the trees.
> Gibbons avoid water because they don't swim.
>
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-92348-z
>
> Contrary to recent discussions, we found chimpanzee eyes to exhibit a cryptic coloration scheme that resembles gibbons more than other apes. We reevaluate the evidence for links between social cognition and eye pigmentation in primates, concluding that the cooperative eye hypothesis cannot explain the patterns observed. Differences in scleral pigmentation between great apes and humans are gradual and might have arisen via genetic drift and sexual selection.
>
> Kenya 13ma gibbon-like ape
> The most complete extinct-ape skull ever found reveals what the last common ancestor of all living apes and humans might have looked like, according to a new study.
>
> The 13-million-year-old infant skull, which its discoverers nicknamed “Alesi,” was unearthed in Kenya in 2014. It likely belonged to a fruit-eating, slow-climbing primate that resembled a baby gibbon, the researchers said.
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fossil-reveals-what-last-common-ancestor-of-humans-and-apes-looked-liked/
>
> Kenyan fossil hunter John Ekusi discovered the skull in 2014 in the Napudet area, west of Lake Turkana in northern Kenya. He suggested its nickname, “Alesi,” because “ales” means “ancestor” in the local Turkana language.
>
> “The Napudet locality offers us a rare glimpse of an African landscape 13 million years ago,” study co-author Craig Feibel, chair of the anthropology department at Rutgers University in New Jersey, said in a statement. “A nearby volcano buried the forest where the baby ape lived, preserving the fossil and countless trees. It also provided us with the critical volcanic minerals by which we were able to date the fossil.”
>
> This is the first ape cranium unearthed from between 10 million and 14 million years ago, and the most complete one discovered from between 7 million and 17 million years ago
-
Click here to read the complete article

My little boy, what is this ridiculous obsession of yours with gibbons??
you don't think gibbons & humans are very close relatives???

All meaningless or expected:

> > > 1) External chin

gracilisation: frugivort / fire...

> > > 2) Monogamy-pair bonding (permanent or serial)

all early hominoids, see my book

> > > 3) Paternal teaching of locomotion: walk upright (Hy) / bicycle upright (Ho)

:-D see monogamy

> > > 4) Long thorax spinal vertebrae

brachiation / wading

> > > 5) No arboreal bowl nest construction

no lots of other things

> > > 6) Always upright bipedal, no-hand walking

brachiation / wading

> > > 7) Inhabit zone above-around shallow crystalline streams, not swamps

drink

> > > 8) Have very long achilles tendon

vertical
> > > 9) Do not swagger sideways while walking on level ground

vertical locomotion

> > > 10) Relatively fast bipedal striding gait

brachiation / walk-run

> > > 11) Very little sexual dimorphism in body size & canine size

monogamy

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:01:01 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> My little boy, what is this ridiculous obsession of yours with gibbons??
> you don't think gibbons & humans are very close relatives???
>
> All meaningless or expected:
>
> > > > 1) External chin
>
> gracilisation: frugivort / fire...

Bonobos are gracile frugivores with no chins, neanderthals had fire with no chin.

> > > > 2) Monogamy-pair bonding (permanent or serial)
> all early hominoids, see my book

Monogamy = yes in treeforks, not in arboreal bowl nests, serial in domeshields, permanent in dome huts.

> > > > 3) Paternal teaching of locomotion: walk upright (Hy) / bicycle upright (Ho)
> :-D see monogamy
Of course, but not in arboreal bowl nest groups!

> > > > 4) Long thorax spinal vertebrae
> brachiation / wading

No evidence of wading, huge evidence of obligate arboreal bipedal/bimanual orthogrady.

> > > > 5) No arboreal bowl nest construction
> no lots of other things

Be relevant meine kleine tochter. Waar sliepen ze?

> > > > 6) Always upright bipedal, no-hand walking
> brachiation / wading

No evidence for wading, only fantasy. Why do you always ignore there walking orthograde on treebranches?? You suffer from invented memories?

> > > > 7) Inhabit zone above-around shallow crystalline streams, not swamps
> drink

Inhabit.

> > > > 8) Have very long achilles tendon
> vertical

Great apes are vertical climbers, gibbons lateral brachiators, AMHs lateral walkers/runners.

> > > > 9) Do not swagger sideways while walking on level ground
> vertical locomotion

??

> > > > 10) Relatively fast bipedal striding gait
> brachiation / walk-run

No running on tree branches. No fast wading.

> > > > 11) Very little sexual dimorphism in body size & canine size
> monogamy

Song

Op vrijdag 27 augustus 2021 om 06:32:46 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

> > My little boy, what is this ridiculous obsession of yours with gibbons??
> > you don't think gibbons & humans are very close relatives???

> > All meaningless or expected:

> > > > > 1) External chin

> > gracilisation: frugivort / fire...

> Bonobos are gracile frugivores with no chins, neanderthals had fire with no chin.

-bonobo 50 kg, 10 x hylabitds
-Hn semi-aquatic: projecting mid-face (ear exostoses, POS...)

> > > > > 2) Monogamy-pair bonding (permanent or serial)

> > all early hominoids, see my book

> Monogamy = yes in treeforks, not in arboreal bowl nests, serial in domeshields, permanent in dome huts.

???

> > > > > 3) Paternal teaching of locomotion: walk upright (Hy) / bicycle upright (Ho)

> > :-D see monogamy

> Of course, but not in arboreal bowl nest groups!

???

> > > > > 4) Long thorax spinal vertebrae

> > brachiation / wading

> No evidence of wading, huge evidence of obligate arboreal bipedal/bimanual orthogrady.

Huge evidence of late-Pleistocene Hs frequently wading.
Huge evidence of Mio-Pliocene hominoid aquarborealism.

> > > > > 5) No arboreal bowl nest construction

> > no lots of other things

> Be relevant meine kleine tochter. Waar sliepen ze?

Don't you even know the difference between Dutch & Deutsch??
"ze": wie? wanneer?

> > > > > 6) Always upright bipedal, no-hand walking

> > brachiation / wading

> No evidence for wading, only fantasy. Why do you always ignore there walking orthograde on treebranches?? You suffer from invented memories?

Huge evidence of late-Pleistocene Hs frequently wading.

Orthograde tree-walking???

> > > > > 7) Inhabit zone above-around shallow crystalline streams, not swamps

> > drink

> Inhabit.

???

> > > > > 8) Have very long achilles tendon

> > vertical

> Great apes are vertical climbers, gibbons lateral brachiators, AMHs lateral walkers/runners.

vertical

> > > > > 9) Do not swagger sideways while walking on level ground

> > vertical locomotion

> ??

???

> > > > > 10) Relatively fast bipedal striding gait

> > brachiation / walk-run

> No running on tree branches. No fast wading.

brachiation / walk-run

> > > > > 11) Very little sexual dimorphism in body size & canine size

> > monogamy

> Song

Google
"Seafood, diving, song and speech".

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 5:22:56 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op vrijdag 27 augustus 2021 om 06:32:46 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > > My little boy, what is this ridiculous obsession of yours with gibbons??

I write a bit on human & hylobatid traits uniquely shared not found in coastal semiaquatics nor aquarboreal swamp anthropoids.

> > > you don't think gibbons & humans are very close relatives???
>
> > > All meaningless or expected:
>
> > > > > > 1) External chin
>
> > > gracilisation: frugivort / fire...
>
> > Bonobos are gracile frugivores with no chins, neanderthals had fire with no chin.
> -bonobo 50 kg, 10 x hylabitds
You claim bonobos have POS now??
Central West African humans have much higher density than tall coastal & Rift East African humans. Which is gracile?
Nicht, meine kleine tochter, arboreals are less heavy than terrestrials, but only hylobatids and humans have chins.

> -Hn semi-aquatic: projecting mid-face (ear exostoses, POS...)
They slept and started fires in water?

> > > > > > 2) Monogamy-pair bonding (permanent or serial)
>
> > > all early hominoids, see my book
>
> > Monogamy = yes in treeforks, not in arboreal bowl nests, serial in domeshields, permanent in dome huts.
> ???

See my notes.

> > > > > > 3) Paternal teaching of locomotion: walk upright (Hy) / bicycle upright (Ho)
>
> > > :-D see monogamy
>
> > Of course, but not in arboreal bowl nest groups!
> ???

There are no monogamous anthropoids which sleep in arboreal bowl nests.

> > > > > > 4) Long thorax spinal vertebrae
>
> > > brachiation / wading
>
> > No evidence of wading, huge evidence of obligate arboreal bipedal/bimanual orthogrady.
> Huge evidence of late-Pleistocene Hs frequently wading.
> Huge evidence of Mio-Pliocene hominoid aquarborealism.

In hylobatids, no evidence of wading.

> > > > > > 5) No arboreal bowl nest construction
>
> > > no lots of other things
>
> > Be relevant meine kleine tochter. Waar sliepen ze?
> Don't you even know the difference between Dutch & Deutsch??
> "ze": wie? wanneer?

Sorry, I thought you know Dutch. I meant of course, where did they sleep?

> > > > > > 6) Always upright bipedal, no-hand walking
>
> > > brachiation / wading
>
> > No evidence for wading, only fantasy. Why do you always ignore there walking orthograde on treebranches?? You suffer from invented memories?
> Huge evidence of late-Pleistocene Hs frequently wading.

Holocene Pygmies wade daily, hylobatids don't, both drink from 2 cupped hands and have chins, unlike other waders & brachiators.

>
> Orthograde tree-walking???

Cf hylobatids.

> > > > > > 7) Inhabit zone above-around shallow crystalline streams, not swamps
>
> > > drink
>
> > Inhabit.
> ???

You have difficulties in English too?

> > > > > > 8) Have very long achilles tendon
>
> > > vertical
>
> > Great apes are vertical climbers, gibbons lateral brachiators, AMHs lateral walkers/runners.
> vertical

No sensible answer. How many littorals have very long Achilles tendons?

> > > > > > 9) Do not swagger sideways while walking on level ground
>
> > > vertical locomotion
>
> > ??
> ???

Chimps have vertical locomotion but swagger side to side when bipedal, unlike humans & hylobatids.

> > > > > > 10) Relatively fast bipedal striding gait
>
> > > brachiation / walk-run
>
> > No running on tree branches. No fast wading.
> brachiation / walk-run

Atelids are qpal unless carrying.

> > > > > > 11) Very little sexual dimorphism in body size & canine size
>
> > > monogamy

Not in arboreal bowl nests.

> > Song
> Google
> "Seafood, diving, song and speech".

Now you claim hylobatids learned to sing underwater?