Most of us need a small drill at one time or another to fabricate an
enclosure for some electronic equipment, or a shelf to carry components.

We drill a hole, take the bit out of the chuck, insert a screwdriver bit,
tighten the screw, remove the screwdriver bit, insert the drill bit, and
repeat for the next hole. This is a lot of work.

Here is a drill that can simplify things and reduce the amount of work. It
is inexpensive enough to buy two - one for the drill bit, and one for the
screwdriver bit. Now you don't have to waste time removing and inserting
bits.

The drill is a Detlev Pro. I have been using them for a long time and they
are very reliable. They have enough torque to handle just about any bit
that you can get in the chuck. There is no power cord to get in the way, or
require an extension cord.

Here is the information:

DETLEV PRO Cordless Drill/Driver Kit 12V Power Drill 3/8-Inch Variable 2-
Speed Drill Set with Charger(Dark Red)

CAD$49.99

About this item

[18 +1 Position Clutch] The cordless power drill driver provides precise
control for most daily purposes; Maximum 28N.m. torque; Maximum drilling
capacity: wood 20mm, masonry 10mm and metal 10mm.

[12-volt Cordless Drill] The rechargeable drill driver set is powered by a
2000mAh Battery. 60 minutes working time after fully charged.

[2 Variable Speed] 2-speed design (0-300/0-1200Rpm) covers a wide range of
drilling holes and working uses.

[3/8-Inch Keyless Chuck] The cordless drill driver chuck capacity is
3/8"(10mm) keyless, which ideal for drilling through or screwing in wood,
metal, and plastic.

[LED Light] Equipped with an integrated LED light to illuminate dark areas
for working convenience.

[Lightweight & Comfortable Design] The rubber-covered handle provides a
comfortable grip for being breezily operated in one hand.

[What's Included] 12V Cordless Drill, 3* Slotted Head 4/5/6, 4* PH Head, 2*
Torx Head T15 T20,1/4" Bit Extender 6.35mm, Charger Adapter.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B09TGMPX85/

Here it is in the States. Only $29.99, far below what we pay. Plus you get
more accessories:

https://www.amazon.com/GardenJoy-Cordless-Electric-Accessories-
Improvement/dp/B08Q7QW5H4/

The GardenJoy is also available in Canada. It seems pretty similar to the
DetLev.

I should mention the battery pack is a bit difficult to remove. You really
have to press hard on the sides to get it out. There is no charge light on
the battery pack. It is on the charger and turns from red to green when the
battery is charged.

I don't see why they didn't drill a small hole in the handle so the charger
can be inserted from the handle. I will probably do that when things get
busy again.

--
MRM

On 11/19/2022 6:51 PM, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:
> Most of us need a small drill at one time or another to fabricate an
> enclosure for some electronic equipment, or a shelf to carry components.
>
> We drill a hole, take the bit out of the chuck, insert a screwdriver bit,
> tighten the screw, remove the screwdriver bit, insert the drill bit, and
> repeat for the next hole. This is a lot of work.

Well, not *really*..................^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> Here is a drill that can simplify things and reduce the amount of work. It
> is inexpensive enough to buy two - one for the drill bit, and one for the
> screwdriver bit. Now you don't have to waste time removing and inserting
> bits.
>
> The drill is a Detlev Pro. I have been using them for a long time and they
> are very reliable. They have enough torque to handle just about any bit
> that you can get in the chuck. There is no power cord to get in the way, or
> require an extension cord.

I opted for the Bosch tool:

<https://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-PS31-2A-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Batteries/dp/B003BEE2LU>

(note canadian site to mimic your reference)

a bit larger -- but lighter and a wee bit more torque (as well as price!)

And, you get this neat carrying case! (rolls eyes)

The purchase was prompted by my need for a short (chuck to back)
drill for tight-in work coupled with my delight with the impact-driver
"sister" product:

<https://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-PS41-2A-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Batteries/dp/B003LST02W>

which effortlessly drives (or extracts) 3" deck screws flush without
pilot holes (I abhor nails!)

Also with it's neat carrying case (which is a PITA as I can never
figure out which case has the tool that I seek!)

Both tools share the same type of battery pack so you can leave one
in the charger while not in use. Lightly depressing the trigger
switch displays status of the installed battery on a crude display
located above the trigger.

I'd be even happier to find a similar model with right-angle chuck
(as using a right-angle adapter requires three hands)

> Here is the information:
>
> DETLEV PRO Cordless Drill/Driver Kit 12V Power Drill 3/8-Inch Variable 2-
> Speed Drill Set with Charger(Dark Red)
>
> CAD$49.99
>
> About this item
>
> [18 +1 Position Clutch] The cordless power drill driver provides precise
> control for most daily purposes; Maximum 28N.m. torque; Maximum drilling
> capacity: wood 20mm, masonry 10mm and metal 10mm.
>
> [12-volt Cordless Drill] The rechargeable drill driver set is powered by a
> 2000mAh Battery. 60 minutes working time after fully charged.
>
> [2 Variable Speed] 2-speed design (0-300/0-1200Rpm) covers a wide range of
> drilling holes and working uses.
>
> [3/8-Inch Keyless Chuck] The cordless drill driver chuck capacity is
> 3/8"(10mm) keyless, which ideal for drilling through or screwing in wood,
> metal, and plastic.
>
> [LED Light] Equipped with an integrated LED light to illuminate dark areas
> for working convenience.
>
> [Lightweight & Comfortable Design] The rubber-covered handle provides a
> comfortable grip for being breezily operated in one hand.
>
> [What's Included] 12V Cordless Drill, 3* Slotted Head 4/5/6, 4* PH Head, 2*
> Torx Head T15 T20,1/4" Bit Extender 6.35mm, Charger Adapter.
>
> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B09TGMPX85/
>
> Here it is in the States. Only $29.99, far below what we pay. Plus you get
> more accessories:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/GardenJoy-Cordless-Electric-Accessories-
> Improvement/dp/B08Q7QW5H4/
>
> The GardenJoy is also available in Canada. It seems pretty similar to the
> DetLev.
>
> I should mention the battery pack is a bit difficult to remove. You really
> have to press hard on the sides to get it out. There is no charge light on
> the battery pack. It is on the charger and turns from red to green when the
> battery is charged.
>
> I don't see why they didn't drill a small hole in the handle so the charger
> can be inserted from the handle. I will probably do that when things get
> busy again.
>
>
>

On 20/11/22 18:09, Don Y wrote:
> I opted for the Bosch tool:
>
> <https://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-PS31-2A-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Batteries/dp/B003BEE2LU>
>
> (note canadian site to mimic your reference)
>
> a bit larger -- but lighter and a wee bit more torque (as well as price!)

I bought that drill on advice from someone here, and can confirm it's
excellent. Amazingly fast to charge also.

> And, you get this neat carrying case!  (rolls eyes)

That's become a go-bag for my radios and my current embedded project.
The drill itself stays out because I use it every day.

Clifford Heath

[snip]

Hi Mike, testing & reviewing tools is your new job ;-)
$30 USD is pretty cheap price, though 20 Nm torque
is low end, for light duty tasks. ("Small holes").
My colleagues in Home Improvement testing
would add, the 12V models are "light duty"
with limited torque, power output,
battery run time, speed. Also, the reliable known
brands are Bosch, DeWalt, Milwaukee, Ridgid, Makita,
Porter-Cable, Metabo HPT, Ryobi, Hilti, Craftsman,
Black+Decker, Bauer, Worx, Skil.
For serious home improvement, step up to
the 18 or 20V models.
Nevertheless they did find a good deal under $100.
This 12V model at ~$60 USD.
Skil DL529002. US retailer:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/SKIL-PWRCore-12-Amp-12-Volt-1-2-in-Brushless-Cordless-Drill-Charger-Included-and-1-Battery-Included/1003276148
Though Skil has not the highest history of reliability, it
should be OK for the weekend DIY person.
regards, RS

On 11/20/2022 2:33 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
> On 20/11/22 18:09, Don Y wrote:
>> I opted for the Bosch tool:
>>
>> <https://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-PS31-2A-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Batteries/dp/B003BEE2LU>
>> (note canadian site to mimic your reference)
>>
>> a bit larger -- but lighter and a wee bit more torque (as well as price!)
>
> I bought that drill on advice from someone here, and can confirm it's
> excellent. Amazingly fast to charge also.

I rescued two carrying cases, two chargers, four battery packs and
the impact driver referenced earlier. I.e., the second case had no
tool inside -- so I have no idea WHAT the tool might have been.

When I needed a "short" (narrow?) drill, it seemed only logical to
find the one that would fit in the case and use the same batteries.

I've been happy with both tools.

>> And, you get this neat carrying case!  (rolls eyes)
>
> That's become a go-bag for my radios and my current embedded project.
> The drill itself stays out because I use it every day.

I have a 3" wide "slot" between a disk array and a workstation
on each side of my office. So, one of the cases (and contained tool)
fits in each slot (symmetry -- OCD).

This makes it easy to know where the tools (and chargers and spare
batteries) are located. But, not easy to know WHICH case has the
tool that I want.

On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 2:09:34 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
> On 11/19/2022 6:51 PM, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:
> > Most of us need a small drill at one time or another to fabricate an
> > enclosure for some electronic equipment, or a shelf to carry components.
> >
> > We drill a hole, take the bit out of the chuck, insert a screwdriver bit,
> > tighten the screw, remove the screwdriver bit, insert the drill bit, and
> > repeat for the next hole. This is a lot of work.
> Well, not *really*..................^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Here is a drill that can simplify things and reduce the amount of work. It
> > is inexpensive enough to buy two - one for the drill bit, and one for the
> > screwdriver bit. Now you don't have to waste time removing and inserting
> > bits.
> >
> > The drill is a Detlev Pro. I have been using them for a long time and they
> > are very reliable. They have enough torque to handle just about any bit
> > that you can get in the chuck. There is no power cord to get in the way, or
> > require an extension cord.
> I opted for the Bosch tool:
>
> <https://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-PS31-2A-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Batteries/dp/B003BEE2LU>
>
> (note canadian site to mimic your reference)
>
> a bit larger -- but lighter and a wee bit more torque (as well as price!)
>
> And, you get this neat carrying case! (rolls eyes)
>
> The purchase was prompted by my need for a short (chuck to back)
> drill for tight-in work coupled with my delight with the impact-driver
> "sister" product:
>
> <https://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-PS41-2A-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Batteries/dp/B003LST02W>
>
> which effortlessly drives (or extracts) 3" deck screws flush without
> pilot holes (I abhor nails!)
>
> Also with it's neat carrying case (which is a PITA as I can never
> figure out which case has the tool that I seek!)
>
> Both tools share the same type of battery pack so you can leave one
> in the charger while not in use. Lightly depressing the trigger
> switch displays status of the installed battery on a crude display
> located above the trigger.
>
> I'd be even happier to find a similar model with right-angle chuck
> (as using a right-angle adapter requires three hands)
> > Here is the information:
> >
> > DETLEV PRO Cordless Drill/Driver Kit 12V Power Drill 3/8-Inch Variable 2-
> > Speed Drill Set with Charger(Dark Red)
> >
> > CAD$49.99
> >
> > About this item
> >
> > [18 +1 Position Clutch] The cordless power drill driver provides precise
> > control for most daily purposes; Maximum 28N.m. torque; Maximum drilling
> > capacity: wood 20mm, masonry 10mm and metal 10mm.
> >
> > [12-volt Cordless Drill] The rechargeable drill driver set is powered by a
> > 2000mAh Battery. 60 minutes working time after fully charged.
> >
> > [2 Variable Speed] 2-speed design (0-300/0-1200Rpm) covers a wide range of
> > drilling holes and working uses.
> >
> > [3/8-Inch Keyless Chuck] The cordless drill driver chuck capacity is
> > 3/8"(10mm) keyless, which ideal for drilling through or screwing in wood,
> > metal, and plastic.
> >
> > [LED Light] Equipped with an integrated LED light to illuminate dark areas
> > for working convenience.
> >
> > [Lightweight & Comfortable Design] The rubber-covered handle provides a
> > comfortable grip for being breezily operated in one hand.
> >
> > [What's Included] 12V Cordless Drill, 3* Slotted Head 4/5/6, 4* PH Head, 2*
> > Torx Head T15 T20,1/4" Bit Extender 6.35mm, Charger Adapter.
> >
> > https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B09TGMPX85/
> >
> > Here it is in the States. Only $29.99, far below what we pay. Plus you get
> > more accessories:
> >
> > https://www.amazon.com/GardenJoy-Cordless-Electric-Accessories-
> > Improvement/dp/B08Q7QW5H4/
> >
> > The GardenJoy is also available in Canada. It seems pretty similar to the
> > DetLev.
> >
> > I should mention the battery pack is a bit difficult to remove. You really
> > have to press hard on the sides to get it out. There is no charge light on
> > the battery pack. It is on the charger and turns from red to green when the
> > battery is charged.
> >
> > I don't see why they didn't drill a small hole in the handle so the charger
> > can be inserted from the handle. I will probably do that when things get
> > busy again.
> >
> >
> >

If it has "joy" in the name, it's Chinese.

On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 8:51:52 PM UTC-5, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:
> Most of us need a small drill at one time or another to fabricate an
> enclosure for some electronic equipment, or a shelf to carry components.
>
> We drill a hole, take the bit out of the chuck, insert a screwdriver bit,
> tighten the screw, remove the screwdriver bit, insert the drill bit, and
> repeat for the next hole. This is a lot of work.

What kind of maniac works like that???

>
> --
> MRM

On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 10:09:22 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
> On 11/20/2022 2:33 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
> > On 20/11/22 18:09, Don Y wrote:
> >> I opted for the Bosch tool:
> >>
> >> <https://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-PS31-2A-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Batteries/dp/B003BEE2LU>
> >> (note canadian site to mimic your reference)
> >>
> >> a bit larger -- but lighter and a wee bit more torque (as well as price!)
> >
> > I bought that drill on advice from someone here, and can confirm it's
> > excellent. Amazingly fast to charge also.
> I rescued two carrying cases, two chargers, four battery packs and
> the impact driver referenced earlier. I.e., the second case had no
> tool inside -- so I have no idea WHAT the tool might have been.
>
> When I needed a "short" (narrow?) drill, it seemed only logical to
> find the one that would fit in the case and use the same batteries.
>
> I've been happy with both tools.
> >> And, you get this neat carrying case! (rolls eyes)
> >
> > That's become a go-bag for my radios and my current embedded project.
> > The drill itself stays out because I use it every day.
> I have a 3" wide "slot" between a disk array and a workstation
> on each side of my office. So, one of the cases (and contained tool)
> fits in each slot (symmetry -- OCD).
>
> This makes it easy to know where the tools (and chargers and spare
> batteries) are located. But, not easy to know WHICH case has the
> tool that I want.

A man of your ingenuity should be able to figure out how to put labels on the bags.

On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 6:17:18 PM UTC-5, Rich S wrote:
> [snip]
>
> Hi Mike, testing & reviewing tools is your new job ;-)
> $30 USD is pretty cheap price, though 20 Nm torque
> is low end, for light duty tasks. ("Small holes").
> My colleagues in Home Improvement testing
> would add, the 12V models are "light duty"
> with limited torque, power output,
> battery run time, speed. Also, the reliable known
> brands are Bosch, DeWalt, Milwaukee, Ridgid, Makita,
> Porter-Cable, Metabo HPT, Ryobi, Hilti, Craftsman,
> Black+Decker, Bauer, Worx, Skil.
> For serious home improvement, step up to
> the 18 or 20V models.
> Nevertheless they did find a good deal under $100.
> This 12V model at ~$60 USD.
> Skil DL529002. US retailer:
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/SKIL-PWRCore-12-Amp-12-Volt-1-2-in-Brushless-Cordless-Drill-Charger-Included-and-1-Battery-Included/1003276148
> Though Skil has not the highest history of reliability, it
> should be OK for the weekend DIY person.
> regards, RS

Skil actually holds up pretty well. All the battery powered stuff is overpriced short lived garbage. Learn how to use an extension cord and buy a real tool with staying power for half the price:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/SKIL-120V-5-5-Amp-3-8-in-Corded-Drill/1002368722

69.99 is not ~ 60 BTW, it's 70.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 01:51:44 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett VE3BTI
<spamme@not.com> wrote:

>Most of us need a small drill at one time or another to fabricate an
>enclosure for some electronic equipment, or a shelf to carry components.
>
>We drill a hole, take the bit out of the chuck, insert a screwdriver bit,
>tighten the screw, remove the screwdriver bit, insert the drill bit, and
>repeat for the next hole. This is a lot of work.
>
>Here is a drill that can simplify things and reduce the amount of work. It
>is inexpensive enough to buy two - one for the drill bit, and one for the
>screwdriver bit. Now you don't have to waste time removing and inserting
>bits.
>
>The drill is a Detlev Pro. I have been using them for a long time and they
>are very reliable. They have enough torque to handle just about any bit
>that you can get in the chuck. There is no power cord to get in the way, or
>require an extension cord.
>
>Here is the information:
>
>DETLEV PRO Cordless Drill/Driver Kit 12V Power Drill 3/8-Inch Variable 2-
>Speed Drill Set with Charger(Dark Red)
>
>CAD$49.99
>
>About this item
>
>[18 +1 Position Clutch] The cordless power drill driver provides precise
>control for most daily purposes; Maximum 28N.m. torque; Maximum drilling
>capacity: wood 20mm, masonry 10mm and metal 10mm.
>
>[12-volt Cordless Drill] The rechargeable drill driver set is powered by a
>2000mAh Battery. 60 minutes working time after fully charged.
>
>[2 Variable Speed] 2-speed design (0-300/0-1200Rpm) covers a wide range of
>drilling holes and working uses.
>
>[3/8-Inch Keyless Chuck] The cordless drill driver chuck capacity is
>3/8"(10mm) keyless, which ideal for drilling through or screwing in wood,
>metal, and plastic.
>
>[LED Light] Equipped with an integrated LED light to illuminate dark areas
>for working convenience.
>
>[Lightweight & Comfortable Design] The rubber-covered handle provides a
>comfortable grip for being breezily operated in one hand.
>
>[What's Included] 12V Cordless Drill, 3* Slotted Head 4/5/6, 4* PH Head, 2*
>Torx Head T15 T20,1/4" Bit Extender 6.35mm, Charger Adapter.
>
>https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B09TGMPX85/
>
>Here it is in the States. Only $29.99, far below what we pay. Plus you get
>more accessories:
>
>https://www.amazon.com/GardenJoy-Cordless-Electric-Accessories-
>Improvement/dp/B08Q7QW5H4/
>
>The GardenJoy is also available in Canada. It seems pretty similar to the
>DetLev.
>
>I should mention the battery pack is a bit difficult to remove. You really
>have to press hard on the sides to get it out. There is no charge light on
>the battery pack. It is on the charger and turns from red to green when the
>battery is charged.
>
>I don't see why they didn't drill a small hole in the handle so the charger
>can be inserted from the handle. I will probably do that when things get
>busy again.

Looks to be the size and shape of most products of its type. Big issue
is battery power-on hours, battery life and costs/availability of
their replacement.

Lower cost acqisition means second-hand purchasing, in this shop.

Apart from battery/cordless issue, there is the one of physical size.
Can you get it into tight spots?

I find that a palm-sized dremel-chucked drill to be invaluable,
despite requirements for a low voltage cord. These are pretty cheap,
sourced off-shore, though not necessarily long-lived, quiet or
mechanically impressive.

Then you need nice short bits.

RL

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 6:27:42 AM UTC-8, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 8:51:52 PM UTC-5, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:
> > Most of us need a small drill at one time or another to fabricate an
> > enclosure for some electronic equipment, or a shelf to carry components.
> >
> > We drill a hole, take the bit out of the chuck, insert a screwdriver bit,
> > tighten the screw, remove the screwdriver bit, insert the drill bit, and
> > repeat for the next hole. This is a lot of work.
> What kind of maniac works like that???
Always keep two drills around for serious screwing. One bit and one screw.
I got couple of cheap ($15) HFT 12V cordless.

legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

> Apart from battery/cordless issue, there is the one of physical size.
> Can you get it into tight spots?

The Gardenjoy model comes with a flexible extension rod. The battery lasts a
long time due to intermittent operation and recharges in about 2 hr.

A dremel would not handle the load of the larger drill and would lack the
torque to drive screws.

--
MRM

On Monday, 21 November 2022 at 15:01:44 UTC, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> Skil actually holds up pretty well. All the battery powered stuff is overpriced short lived garbage. Learn how to use an extension cord and buy a real tool with staying power for half the price:
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/SKIL-120V-5-5-Amp-3-8-in-Corded-Drill/1002368722

I still use a 50-year old Skil mains powered drill with variable speed trigger and
two-speed gearbox. It has very high torque at low speed.

John

On 11/21/2022 7:30 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 10:09:22 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
>> On 11/20/2022 2:33 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
>>> On 20/11/22 18:09, Don Y wrote:
>>>> I opted for the Bosch tool:
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-PS31-2A-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Batteries/dp/B003BEE2LU>
>>>> (note canadian site to mimic your reference)
>>>>
>>>> a bit larger -- but lighter and a wee bit more torque (as well as price!)
>>>
>>> I bought that drill on advice from someone here, and can confirm it's
>>> excellent. Amazingly fast to charge also.
>> I rescued two carrying cases, two chargers, four battery packs and
>> the impact driver referenced earlier. I.e., the second case had no
>> tool inside -- so I have no idea WHAT the tool might have been.
>>
>> When I needed a "short" (narrow?) drill, it seemed only logical to
>> find the one that would fit in the case and use the same batteries.
>>
>> I've been happy with both tools.
>>>> And, you get this neat carrying case! (rolls eyes)
>>>
>>> That's become a go-bag for my radios and my current embedded project.
>>> The drill itself stays out because I use it every day.
>> I have a 3" wide "slot" between a disk array and a workstation
>> on each side of my office. So, one of the cases (and contained tool)
>> fits in each slot (symmetry -- OCD).
>>
>> This makes it easy to know where the tools (and chargers and spare
>> batteries) are located. But, not easy to know WHICH case has the
>> tool that I want.
>
> A man of your ingenuity should be able to figure out how to put labels on the bags.

My office is jam-packed ("3 inch wide slot...") with kit. So, even accessing
a label would mean taking the case out. Why not just unzip and peek inside?
Also covers the case where I may have placed the tools in the wrong bags.

Each of my laptop cases has a "luggage tag" label indicating contents.
I still have to take them off the shelf and peek inside to figure out
what's REALLY inside...

On 11/21/2022 11:13 AM, John Walliker wrote:
> On Monday, 21 November 2022 at 15:01:44 UTC, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> Skil actually holds up pretty well. All the battery powered stuff is overpriced short lived garbage. Learn how to use an extension cord and buy a real tool with staying power for half the price:
>> https://www.lowes.com/pd/SKIL-120V-5-5-Amp-3-8-in-Corded-Drill/1002368722
>
> I still use a 50-year old Skil mains powered drill with variable speed trigger and
> two-speed gearbox. It has very high torque at low speed.

I have an assortment of corded drills and hammer-drills.
But, all are very large and/or heavy -- not the sort of things
I'm going to take up a ladder and use to drill a hole into a
cripple stud spaced 10 inches from its neighbor!

(Hence the desire for a true right-angle drill/impact driver)

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 2:11:31 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
> On 11/21/2022 11:13 AM, John Walliker wrote:
> > On Monday, 21 November 2022 at 15:01:44 UTC, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> >> Skil actually holds up pretty well. All the battery powered stuff is overpriced short lived garbage. Learn how to use an extension cord and buy a real tool with staying power for half the price:
> >> https://www.lowes.com/pd/SKIL-120V-5-5-Amp-3-8-in-Corded-Drill/1002368722
> >
> > I still use a 50-year old Skil mains powered drill with variable speed trigger and
> > two-speed gearbox. It has very high torque at low speed.
> I have an assortment of corded drills and hammer-drills.
> But, all are very large and/or heavy -- not the sort of things
> I'm going to take up a ladder and use to drill a hole into a
> cripple stud spaced 10 inches from its neighbor!
>
> (Hence the desire for a true right-angle drill/impact driver)

Who the heck drills studs except Simpson Strong-Tie fanatics? There are applications where a screw is disallowed by code because it doesn't have enough ductility. Has to be a nail, unless it's a Simpson product pre-qualified for the job.

Nail guns- now those are all big- don't think I've heard of a mini, but even the long time career carpenters who try them become completely enamored with them and never go back to a hammer.

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 1:13:24 PM UTC-5, John Walliker wrote:
> On Monday, 21 November 2022 at 15:01:44 UTC, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > Skil actually holds up pretty well. All the battery powered stuff is overpriced short lived garbage. Learn how to use an extension cord and buy a real tool with staying power for half the price:
> > https://www.lowes.com/pd/SKIL-120V-5-5-Amp-3-8-in-Corded-Drill/1002368722
> I still use a 50-year old Skil mains powered drill with variable speed trigger and
> two-speed gearbox. It has very high torque at low speed.

I don't notice any weight difference between corded and battery for the same output power. I do notice the corded keeps going and going with ample power long after you've made multiple battery changeouts. Battery powered tools are a ripoff.

>
> John

On 11/21/2022 12:24 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> I have an assortment of corded drills and hammer-drills. But, all are very
>> large and/or heavy -- not the sort of things I'm going to take up a ladder
>> and use to drill a hole into a cripple stud spaced 10 inches from its
>> neighbor!
>>
>> (Hence the desire for a true right-angle drill/impact driver)
>
> Who the heck drills studs except Simpson Strong-Tie fanatics? There are
> applications where a screw is disallowed by code because it doesn't have
> enough ductility. Has to be a nail, unless it's a Simpson product
> pre-qualified for the job.

When you are fastening an electronic device to a stud, the fastener has to
only support the weight of the device. It doesn't contribute to the
structural integrity of the house. Ditto cable hangers.

Swinging a hammer when a "miss" will cost you $100 worth of kit is
pretty foolish. Carpenters don't care where, specifically, the nail enters
the stud but, fastening a 3.5" wide device to a 3.5" wide stud means
you are really concerned that the mounting holes in the device end
up *exactly* where intended, relative to the edges of the stud, lest
the box interfere with the drywall that will cover the stud!

> Nail guns- now those are all big- don't think I've heard of a mini, but even
> the long time career carpenters who try them become completely enamored with
> them and never go back to a hammer

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 2:34:21 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
> On 11/21/2022 12:24 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> >> I have an assortment of corded drills and hammer-drills. But, all are very
> >> large and/or heavy -- not the sort of things I'm going to take up a ladder
> >> and use to drill a hole into a cripple stud spaced 10 inches from its
> >> neighbor!
> >>
> >> (Hence the desire for a true right-angle drill/impact driver)
> >
> > Who the heck drills studs except Simpson Strong-Tie fanatics? There are
> > applications where a screw is disallowed by code because it doesn't have
> > enough ductility. Has to be a nail, unless it's a Simpson product
> > pre-qualified for the job.
> When you are fastening an electronic device to a stud, the fastener has to
> only support the weight of the device. It doesn't contribute to the
> structural integrity of the house. Ditto cable hangers.
>
> Swinging a hammer when a "miss" will cost you $100 worth of kit is
> pretty foolish. Carpenters don't care where, specifically, the nail enters
> the stud but, fastening a 3.5" wide device to a 3.5" wide stud means
> you are really concerned that the mounting holes in the device end
> up *exactly* where intended, relative to the edges of the stud, lest
> the box interfere with the drywall that will cover the stud!

You have electronic devices you're burying behind permanent construction?

> > Nail guns- now those are all big- don't think I've heard of a mini, but even
> > the long time career carpenters who try them become completely enamored with
> > them and never go back to a hammer

On 11/21/2022 12:49 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 2:34:21 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
>> On 11/21/2022 12:24 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>> I have an assortment of corded drills and hammer-drills. But, all are very
>>>> large and/or heavy -- not the sort of things I'm going to take up a ladder
>>>> and use to drill a hole into a cripple stud spaced 10 inches from its
>>>> neighbor!
>>>>
>>>> (Hence the desire for a true right-angle drill/impact driver)
>>>
>>> Who the heck drills studs except Simpson Strong-Tie fanatics? There are
>>> applications where a screw is disallowed by code because it doesn't have
>>> enough ductility. Has to be a nail, unless it's a Simpson product
>>> pre-qualified for the job.
>> When you are fastening an electronic device to a stud, the fastener has to
>> only support the weight of the device. It doesn't contribute to the
>> structural integrity of the house. Ditto cable hangers.
>>
>> Swinging a hammer when a "miss" will cost you $100 worth of kit is
>> pretty foolish. Carpenters don't care where, specifically, the nail enters
>> the stud but, fastening a 3.5" wide device to a 3.5" wide stud means
>> you are really concerned that the mounting holes in the device end
>> up *exactly* where intended, relative to the edges of the stud, lest
>> the box interfere with the drywall that will cover the stud!
>
> You have electronic devices you're burying behind permanent construction?

No, I have *boxes* for electronic devices that are buried behind
permanent construction.

And, other devices, in equally difficult places to reach with "power tools",
that are hidden behind "removable panels" -- as per Code.

>>> Nail guns- now those are all big- don't think I've heard of a mini, but even
>>> the long time career carpenters who try them become completely enamored with
>>> them and never go back to a hammer
>

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/21/2022 12:49 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 2:34:21 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 11/21/2022 12:24 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>> I have an assortment of corded drills and hammer-drills. But, all are very
>>>>> large and/or heavy -- not the sort of things I'm going to take up a ladder
>>>>> and use to drill a hole into a cripple stud spaced 10 inches from its
>>>>> neighbor!
>>>>>
>>>>> (Hence the desire for a true right-angle drill/impact driver)
>>>>
>>>> Who the heck drills studs except Simpson Strong-Tie fanatics? There are
>>>> applications where a screw is disallowed by code because it doesn't have
>>>> enough ductility. Has to be a nail, unless it's a Simpson product
>>>> pre-qualified for the job.
>>> When you are fastening an electronic device to a stud, the fastener has to
>>> only support the weight of the device. It doesn't contribute to the
>>> structural integrity of the house. Ditto cable hangers.
>>>
>>> Swinging a hammer when a "miss" will cost you $100 worth of kit is
>>> pretty foolish. Carpenters don't care where, specifically, the nail enters
>>> the stud but, fastening a 3.5" wide device to a 3.5" wide stud means
>>> you are really concerned that the mounting holes in the device end
>>> up *exactly* where intended, relative to the edges of the stud, lest
>>> the box interfere with the drywall that will cover the stud!
>>
>> You have electronic devices you're burying behind permanent construction?
>
> No, I have *boxes* for electronic devices that are buried behind
> permanent construction.

This guy is smart.