On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It's the same battery!
>
> And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn't cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I'd say more like 500 dollars.

I don't know who you are talking to. Many people talk about stuff they don't actually know much about. An EVSE which does zero energy conversion, costs around $400 for 5 kW handling capability. 10 kW is around 42 amps. So I can see a 10 kW inverter being much more expensive than $500. If you think you can make and sell them at a profit, for $500, you need to go into that business!

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:35:58 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:00:23 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It's the same battery!
> >>
> >> And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn't cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I'd say more like 500 dollars.
> >
> > I don't know who you are talking to.
>
> This is a newsgroup, so I'm talking to whoever reads the post.

I would have avoided this post, but you seem to be replying to me. Maybe I've made a mistake in that assumption and you are just airing out your fingers.

> > Many people talk about stuff they don't actually know much about. An EVSE which does zero energy conversion, costs around $400 for 5 kW handling capability.
>
> You need to shop around. I can get one for half the price that does 8kW. Anyway they have electronics to communicate with the car.

One what? The point is the EVSE doesn't "handle" the power, it just connects the car to the power. An inverter is much more expensive because it has to actually convert the power. So no, $500 is not realistic for 10kW.

> > 10 kW is around 42 amps. So I can see a 10 kW inverter being much more expensive than $500. If you think you can make and sell them at a profit, for $500, you need to go into that business!
>
> A grand actually. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193572450281

LOL!!! Anyone who would wire that Chinese junk to their car OR their house is an idiot! Maybe Ed Lee is up for the job?

Why do you make such posts?

--

Rick C.

-++-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 3:09:04 PM UTC-8, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 17:23:44 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:35:58 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:00:23 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It's the same battery!
> >> >>
> >> >> And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn't cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I'd say more like 500 dollars.
> >> >
> >> > I don't know who you are talking to.
> >>
> >> This is a newsgroup, so I'm talking to whoever reads the post.
> >
> > I would have avoided this post, but you seem to be replying to me. Maybe I've made a mistake in that assumption and you are just airing out your fingers.
>
> A post can be read and responded to by anyone. When I said "And why do people say it costs tho.....", you didn't seem to know who I was talking to, I can't tell to help you out now, since you snipped the attributions.
>
> >> > Many people talk about stuff they don't actually know much about. An EVSE which does zero energy conversion, costs around $400 for 5 kW handling capability.
> >>
> >> You need to shop around. I can get one for half the price that does 8kW. Anyway they have electronics to communicate with the car.
> >
> > One what? The point is the EVSE doesn't "handle" the power, it just connects the car to the power. An inverter is much more expensive because it has to actually convert the power. So no, $500 is not realistic for 10kW.
>
> But you weren't talking about invertors, you said EVSE.
>
> >> > 10 kW is around 42 amps. So I can see a 10 kW inverter being much more expensive than $500. If you think you can make and sell them at a profit, for $500, you need to go into that business!
> >>
> >> A grand actually. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193572450281
> >
> > LOL!!! Anyone who would wire that Chinese junk to their car OR their house is an idiot! Maybe Ed Lee is up for the job?

Absolutely, i got a 3kW 48V to 220V for $99. 10kW for $999 is too expensive.

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 3:43:41 PM UTC-8, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 23:27:22 -0000, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 3:09:04 PM UTC-8, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 17:23:44 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:35:58 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:00:23 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> >> If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It's the same battery!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn't cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I'd say more like 500 dollars.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I don't know who you are talking to.
> >> >>
> >> >> This is a newsgroup, so I'm talking to whoever reads the post.
> >> >
> >> > I would have avoided this post, but you seem to be replying to me. Maybe I've made a mistake in that assumption and you are just airing out your fingers.
> >>
> >> A post can be read and responded to by anyone. When I said "And why do people say it costs tho.....", you didn't seem to know who I was talking to, I can't tell to help you out now, since you snipped the attributions.
> >>
> >> >> > Many people talk about stuff they don't actually know much about. An EVSE which does zero energy conversion, costs around $400 for 5 kW handling capability.
> >> >>
> >> >> You need to shop around. I can get one for half the price that does 8kW. Anyway they have electronics to communicate with the car.
> >> >
> >> > One what? The point is the EVSE doesn't "handle" the power, it just connects the car to the power. An inverter is much more expensive because it has to actually convert the power. So no, $500 is not realistic for 10kW.
> >>
> >> But you weren't talking about invertors, you said EVSE.
> >>
> >> >> > 10 kW is around 42 amps. So I can see a 10 kW inverter being much more expensive than $500. If you think you can make and sell them at a profit, for $500, you need to go into that business!
> >> >>
> >> >> A grand actually. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193572450281
> >> >
> >> > LOL!!! Anyone who would wire that Chinese junk to their car OR their house is an idiot! Maybe Ed Lee is up for the job?
> >
> > Absolutely, i got a 3kW 48V to 220V for $99. 10kW for $999 is too expensive.
> If you join the outputs together from three of those, would they phase synch?

No, but i want DC anyway. Even after rectifying, it hardly get over 220V DC. So, i use two sets to get 420.

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 3:52:46 PM UTC-8, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 23:47:54 -0000, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 3:43:41 PM UTC-8, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 23:27:22 -0000, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 3:09:04 PM UTC-8, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 17:23:44 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:35:58 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> >> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:00:23 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> > On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> >> >> If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It's the same battery!
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn't cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I'd say more like 500 dollars.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I don't know who you are talking to.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> This is a newsgroup, so I'm talking to whoever reads the post.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I would have avoided this post, but you seem to be replying to me. Maybe I've made a mistake in that assumption and you are just airing out your fingers.
> >> >>
> >> >> A post can be read and responded to by anyone. When I said "And why do people say it costs tho.....", you didn't seem to know who I was talking to, I can't tell to help you out now, since you snipped the attributions.
> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Many people talk about stuff they don't actually know much about. An EVSE which does zero energy conversion, costs around $400 for 5 kW handling capability.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You need to shop around. I can get one for half the price that does 8kW. Anyway they have electronics to communicate with the car.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > One what? The point is the EVSE doesn't "handle" the power, it just connects the car to the power. An inverter is much more expensive because it has to actually convert the power. So no, $500 is not realistic for 10kW.
> >> >>
> >> >> But you weren't talking about invertors, you said EVSE.
> >> >>
> >> >> >> > 10 kW is around 42 amps. So I can see a 10 kW inverter being much more expensive than $500. If you think you can make and sell them at a profit, for $500, you need to go into that business!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> A grand actually. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193572450281
> >> >> >
> >> >> > LOL!!! Anyone who would wire that Chinese junk to their car OR their house is an idiot! Maybe Ed Lee is up for the job?
> >> >
> >> > Absolutely, i got a 3kW 48V to 220V for $99. 10kW for $999 is too expensive.
> >> If you join the outputs together from three of those, would they phase synch?
> >
> > No, but i want DC anyway. Even after rectifying, it hardly get over 220V DC. So, i use two sets to get 420.
> Why do you run your house on DC?

Car, not house.

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 7:09:04 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 17:23:44 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:35:58 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:00:23 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It's the same battery!
> >> >>
> >> >> And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn't cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I'd say more like 500 dollars.
> >> >
> >> > I don't know who you are talking to.
> >>
> >> This is a newsgroup, so I'm talking to whoever reads the post.
> >
> > I would have avoided this post, but you seem to be replying to me. Maybe I've made a mistake in that assumption and you are just airing out your fingers.
>
> A post can be read and responded to by anyone. When I said "And why do people say it costs tho.....", you didn't seem to know who I was talking to, I can't tell to help you out now, since you snipped the attributions.

LOL! It's a newsgroup. You can easily read the post I replied to. But since you are too lazy to actually research the issue being discussed, I guess you are too lazy to read another post.

> >> > Many people talk about stuff they don't actually know much about. An EVSE which does zero energy conversion, costs around $400 for 5 kW handling capability.
> >>
> >> You need to shop around. I can get one for half the price that does 8kW. Anyway they have electronics to communicate with the car.
> >
> > One what? The point is the EVSE doesn't "handle" the power, it just connects the car to the power. An inverter is much more expensive because it has to actually convert the power. So no, $500 is not realistic for 10kW.
>
> But you weren't talking about invertors, you said EVSE.

Yes, you mentioned the 10kW inverter costing a mere $500 and I'm saying a much more simple EVSE is about that price, performing no conversion of the power and typically only handling 5kW at that price. I was given a BoM and costs for a 30amp EVSE and the $500 price tag is realistic. So there's no way you can sell a much more complex and component intensive inverter to handle much more power for the same price. But then, I've already explained that just above.

Do you understand what I'm saying now?

> >> > 10 kW is around 42 amps. So I can see a 10 kW inverter being much more expensive than $500. If you think you can make and sell them at a profit, for $500, you need to go into that business!
> >>
> >> A grand actually. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193572450281
> >
> > LOL!!! Anyone who would wire that Chinese junk to their car OR their house is an idiot! Maybe Ed Lee is up for the job?
> >
> > Why do you make such posts?
>
> Because I live cheaply on Chinese stuff. 99p for an 18650 battery charger!

Yes, but those of us who want our cars to not burn up, and be responsible for any damage the fire causes, because our insurance won't cover that sort of homebrew garbage, don't install junk in our BEVs.

It is really hard to have a conversation with you, because you will never concede any point, no matter how clearly it is explained to you.

--

Rick C.

+-+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 7:27:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 3:09:04 PM UTC-8, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> > On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 17:23:44 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:35:58 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> > >> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:00:23 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> > >> >> If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It's the same battery!
> > >> >>
> > >> >> And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn't cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I'd say more like 500 dollars.
> > >> >
> > >> > I don't know who you are talking to.
> > >>
> > >> This is a newsgroup, so I'm talking to whoever reads the post.
> > >
> > > I would have avoided this post, but you seem to be replying to me. Maybe I've made a mistake in that assumption and you are just airing out your fingers.
> >
> > A post can be read and responded to by anyone. When I said "And why do people say it costs tho.....", you didn't seem to know who I was talking to, I can't tell to help you out now, since you snipped the attributions.
> >
> > >> > Many people talk about stuff they don't actually know much about. An EVSE which does zero energy conversion, costs around $400 for 5 kW handling capability.
> > >>
> > >> You need to shop around. I can get one for half the price that does 8kW. Anyway they have electronics to communicate with the car.
> > >
> > > One what? The point is the EVSE doesn't "handle" the power, it just connects the car to the power. An inverter is much more expensive because it has to actually convert the power. So no, $500 is not realistic for 10kW.
> >
> > But you weren't talking about invertors, you said EVSE.
> >
> > >> > 10 kW is around 42 amps. So I can see a 10 kW inverter being much more expensive than $500. If you think you can make and sell them at a profit, for $500, you need to go into that business!
> > >>
> > >> A grand actually. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193572450281
> > >
> > > LOL!!! Anyone who would wire that Chinese junk to their car OR their house is an idiot! Maybe Ed Lee is up for the job?
> Absolutely, i got a 3kW 48V to 220V for $99. 10kW for $999 is too expensive.

Yes, Ed Lee, the king of living cheap. Not the guy I would take advice from on this topic. We'll see how long it is before you manage to burn up your Leaf... a leaf fire.

--

Rick C.

+-+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:26:21 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 12:04:57 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 7:27:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> >> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 3:09:04 PM UTC-8, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> > On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 17:23:44 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:35:58 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> > >> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:00:23 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> > On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> > >> >> If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It's the same battery!
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn't cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I'd say more like 500 dollars.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > I don't know who you are talking to.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> This is a newsgroup, so I'm talking to whoever reads the post.
> >> > >
> >> > > I would have avoided this post, but you seem to be replying to me. Maybe I've made a mistake in that assumption and you are just airing out your fingers.
> >> >
> >> > A post can be read and responded to by anyone. When I said "And why do people say it costs tho.....", you didn't seem to know who I was talking to, I can't tell to help you out now, since you snipped the attributions.
> >> >
> >> > >> > Many people talk about stuff they don't actually know much about. An EVSE which does zero energy conversion, costs around $400 for 5 kW handling capability.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> You need to shop around. I can get one for half the price that does 8kW. Anyway they have electronics to communicate with the car.
> >> > >
> >> > > One what? The point is the EVSE doesn't "handle" the power, it just connects the car to the power. An inverter is much more expensive because it has to actually convert the power. So no, $500 is not realistic for 10kW.
> >> >
> >> > But you weren't talking about invertors, you said EVSE.
> >> >
> >> > >> > 10 kW is around 42 amps. So I can see a 10 kW inverter being much more expensive than $500. If you think you can make and sell them at a profit, for $500, you need to go into that business!
> >> > >>
> >> > >> A grand actually. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193572450281
> >> > >
> >> > > LOL!!! Anyone who would wire that Chinese junk to their car OR their house is an idiot! Maybe Ed Lee is up for the job?
> >> Absolutely, i got a 3kW 48V to 220V for $99. 10kW for $999 is too expensive.
> >
> > Yes, Ed Lee, the king of living cheap. Not the guy I would take advice from on this topic. We'll see how long it is before you manage to burn up your Leaf... a leaf fire.
> You've just admitted you're an ignorant money wasting resource wasting upper class twit. You're the sort that will die off because you can't do anything with limited resources.

Translated into English, that means I won't put my car and the people who ride in it in danger of being immolated by excessive frugality.

It's kinda funny, Larkin accuses me of being compulsively cheap and Commander Kinky says I'm too much the spendthrift to survive. LOL

--

Rick C.

+-+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
> Anybody who puts safety above expenditure is pathetic.

OMG! This is now preserved for all time!

--

Rick C.

++--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 2:02:04 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:55:55 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >>
> >> Anybody who puts safety above expenditure is pathetic.
> >
> > OMG! This is now preserved for all time!
> Were you bullied at school? You really are pathetic. Why do you feel the need to be safe? Don't tell me, you actually wear a cycle helmet and a use a seatbelt, just in case....

Yes, I wear seatbelts. They have saved many, many lives. It's a shame that the Darwin impact of seatbelts are not more direct and effective.

> STOP EDITING THE FUCKING NEWSGROUPS YOU UTTERLY PATHETIC TROLL.

Ok

--

Rick C.

++-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 3:06:37 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 18:50:53 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 2:02:04 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:55:55 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Anybody who puts safety above expenditure is pathetic.
> >> >
> >> > OMG! This is now preserved for all time!
> >> Were you bullied at school? You really are pathetic. Why do you feel the need to be safe? Don't tell me, you actually wear a cycle helmet and a use a seatbelt, just in case....
> >
> > Yes, I wear seatbelts. They have saved many, many lives. It's a shame that the Darwin impact of seatbelts are not more direct and effective.
> Just before the seatbelt law was introduced in the UK, only ONE THIRD of all drivers wore them. Therefore you are in a minority.

Who cares??? There are any number of idiots in the world. You seem proud to count yourself among them.

> >> STOP EDITING THE FUCKING NEWSGROUPS YOU UTTERLY PATHETIC TROLL.
> >
> > Ok
> 3rd last warning.

OK

--

Rick C.

+++-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 3:47:09 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 19:32:44 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 3:06:37 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 18:50:53 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 2:02:04 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:55:55 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Anybody who puts safety above expenditure is pathetic.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > OMG! This is now preserved for all time!
> >> >> Were you bullied at school? You really are pathetic. Why do you feel the need to be safe? Don't tell me, you actually wear a cycle helmet and a use a seatbelt, just in case....
> >> >
> >> > Yes, I wear seatbelts. They have saved many, many lives. It's a shame that the Darwin impact of seatbelts are not more direct and effective.
> >> Just before the seatbelt law was introduced in the UK, only ONE THIRD of all drivers wore them. Therefore you are in a minority.
> >
> > Who cares??? There are any number of idiots in the world. You seem proud to count yourself among them.
> >
> >
> >> >> STOP EDITING THE FUCKING NEWSGROUPS YOU UTTERLY PATHETIC TROLL.
> >> >
> >> > Ok
> >> 3rd last warning.
> >
> > OK
> Fuck the warnings. Killfile it is. You clearly don't understand usenet.

I will mark this day in my calendar. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

--

Rick C.

+++++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209