Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

Swap read error. You lose your mind.


tech / sci.electronics.design / Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

SubjectAuthor
* Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSFred Bloggs
+* Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSa a
|`* Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSLie by a a
| +* Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSRicky
| |+* Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSJohn Walliker
| ||`* Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSFred Bloggs
| || `* Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSLasse Langwadt Christensen
| ||  `* Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSJohn Walliker
| ||   `* Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSa a
| ||    `* Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSJohn Walliker
| ||     `* Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSa a
| ||      `* Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSa a
| ||       `- Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSLie by a a
| |`- Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSa a
| `- Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSa a
`* Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSJohn Larkin
 `* Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSPhil Hobbs
  `- Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPSJohn Larkin

1
Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110792&group=sci.electronics.design#110792

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4386:0:b0:4c6:b2ae:e24b with SMTP id s6-20020ad44386000000b004c6b2aee24bmr11487123qvr.78.1669232572581;
Wed, 23 Nov 2022 11:42:52 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a37:6c3:0:b0:6ef:131e:9c52 with SMTP id
186-20020a3706c3000000b006ef131e9c52mr9205670qkg.735.1669232572359; Wed, 23
Nov 2022 11:42:52 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 11:42:52 -0800 (PST)
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:5cc:4701:5250:a897:9e53:f023:df62;
posting-account=iGtwSwoAAABNNwPORfvAs6OM4AR9GRHt
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:5cc:4701:5250:a897:9e53:f023:df62
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
From: bloggs.f...@gmail.com (Fred Bloggs)
Injection-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 19:42:52 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 1413
 by: Fred Bloggs - Wed, 23 Nov 2022 19:42 UTC

:
Existing telecommunications infrastructure could operate as a miniaturized global positioning system, offering submetre resolution in urban areas and indoors, where location information from satellites is often inaccurate.
:

Agglomeration

https://media.nature.com/original/magazine-assets/d41586-022-03696-3/d41586-022-03696-3.pdf

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<d2bc8df4-6595-4dce-bdc5-7bacb1254a42n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110793&group=sci.electronics.design#110793

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
X-Received: by 2002:a0c:8091:0:b0:4bb:b8ec:2bc7 with SMTP id 17-20020a0c8091000000b004bbb8ec2bc7mr12002767qvb.20.1669237038169;
Wed, 23 Nov 2022 12:57:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:4290:b0:4bb:5d3a:bdad with SMTP id
og16-20020a056214429000b004bb5d3abdadmr10298257qvb.26.1669237038006; Wed, 23
Nov 2022 12:57:18 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 12:57:17 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=46.134.188.10; posting-account=XS5sXwoAAABKU0kHcsk_nashWaidAu0Q
NNTP-Posting-Host: 46.134.188.10
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <d2bc8df4-6595-4dce-bdc5-7bacb1254a42n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
From: manta1...@gmail.com (a a)
Injection-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 20:57:18 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 1294
 by: a a - Wed, 23 Nov 2022 20:57 UTC

#failyfakebyfred

I developed GPS navigation based on triangulation of signal strength from base stations 20 years ago to work for Nokia phones

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<tlm3a1$1v5p$1@gioia.aioe.org>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110794&group=sci.electronics.design#110794

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!HQqjtrwtWYY0cW+c5n/Byw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: lie-by...@liar.example.invalid (Lie by a a)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 21:28:33 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <tlm3a1$1v5p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com> <d2bc8df4-6595-4dce-bdc5-7bacb1254a42n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="64697"; posting-host="HQqjtrwtWYY0cW+c5n/Byw.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Lie by a a - Wed, 23 Nov 2022 21:28 UTC

a a <manta103g@gmail.com> wrote:
> I developed GPS navigation based on triangulation of signal strength
> from base stations 20 years ago to work for Nokia phones

False.

If you were intelligent enough to actually have achieved this then you
would present here in the group as significantly more intelligent than
you presently present.

You present as someone with an IQ of about 50 or less -- therefore it
is not possible for you to have achieved what you assert above based
upon the evidence of your postings here.

Try a more believable lie next time.

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<19e1a430-53b7-4de5-bc45-e976c625f65fn@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110797&group=sci.electronics.design#110797

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
X-Received: by 2002:a0c:c3cc:0:b0:4c6:a05d:f67e with SMTP id p12-20020a0cc3cc000000b004c6a05df67emr11159202qvi.4.1669240348304;
Wed, 23 Nov 2022 13:52:28 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:498a:0:b0:3a5:1c61:230c with SMTP id
f10-20020ac8498a000000b003a51c61230cmr14992452qtq.29.1669240348074; Wed, 23
Nov 2022 13:52:28 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!border-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 13:52:27 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <tlm3a1$1v5p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2605:ba00:4227:f1eb:21a5:6392:6369:3d9a;
posting-account=I-_H_woAAAA9zzro6crtEpUAyIvzd19b
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2605:ba00:4227:f1eb:21a5:6392:6369:3d9a
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
<d2bc8df4-6595-4dce-bdc5-7bacb1254a42n@googlegroups.com> <tlm3a1$1v5p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <19e1a430-53b7-4de5-bc45-e976c625f65fn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
From: gnuarm.d...@gmail.com (Ricky)
Injection-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 21:52:28 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lines: 25
 by: Ricky - Wed, 23 Nov 2022 21:52 UTC

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 5:28:43 PM UTC-4, Lie by a a wrote:
> a a <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I developed GPS navigation based on triangulation of signal strength
> > from base stations 20 years ago to work for Nokia phones
> False.
>
> If you were intelligent enough to actually have achieved this then you
> would present here in the group as significantly more intelligent than
> you presently present.
>
> You present as someone with an IQ of about 50 or less -- therefore it
> is not possible for you to have achieved what you assert above based
> upon the evidence of your postings here.
>
> Try a more believable lie next time.

I don't know why, but this post really struck me as funny. It's especially so, because the author felt the need to hide his usual posting name, by using the name, "Lie by a a".

LOL, sometimes this group is just too fucking nuts!

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<80443368-7c29-49fc-8210-bc0f2b2e4a7bn@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110798&group=sci.electronics.design#110798

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:528b:0:b0:35b:b250:340c with SMTP id s11-20020ac8528b000000b0035bb250340cmr28604524qtn.511.1669244398275;
Wed, 23 Nov 2022 14:59:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1b91:b0:6fc:1ac4:ea1b with SMTP id
dv17-20020a05620a1b9100b006fc1ac4ea1bmr8044598qkb.522.1669244398083; Wed, 23
Nov 2022 14:59:58 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!border-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 14:59:57 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <19e1a430-53b7-4de5-bc45-e976c625f65fn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2001:8b0:fb4e:0:8286:f2ff:fe6b:6c87;
posting-account=de11ZAoAAACBQRb2jWnaIkHYK2q9mRvs
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:8b0:fb4e:0:8286:f2ff:fe6b:6c87
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
<d2bc8df4-6595-4dce-bdc5-7bacb1254a42n@googlegroups.com> <tlm3a1$1v5p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<19e1a430-53b7-4de5-bc45-e976c625f65fn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <80443368-7c29-49fc-8210-bc0f2b2e4a7bn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
From: jrwalli...@gmail.com (John Walliker)
Injection-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 22:59:58 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lines: 40
 by: John Walliker - Wed, 23 Nov 2022 22:59 UTC

On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 at 21:52:31 UTC, Ricky wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 5:28:43 PM UTC-4, Lie by a a wrote:
> > a a <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I developed GPS navigation based on triangulation of signal strength
> > > from base stations 20 years ago to work for Nokia phones
> > False.
> >
> > If you were intelligent enough to actually have achieved this then you
> > would present here in the group as significantly more intelligent than
> > you presently present.
> >
> > You present as someone with an IQ of about 50 or less -- therefore it
> > is not possible for you to have achieved what you assert above based
> > upon the evidence of your postings here.
> >
> > Try a more believable lie next time.
> I don't know why, but this post really struck me as funny. It's especially so, because the author felt the need to hide his usual posting name, by using the name, "Lie by a a".
>
> LOL, sometimes this group is just too fucking nuts!
>
I know there isn't much point, but here goes:
- GPS satellite navigation was already well established 20 years ago
- Triangulation based on signal strength from base stations does not give very
useful results because there are so many sources of variable attenuation
- I was able to get good distance measurements from various base stations
on a Nokia phone by reading out the timing advance data. This was available
when the phone was switched into engineering mode and gave results accurate
to a few hundred metres even when the base stations were many miles away.
It didn't need to be invented - it was built into the GSM specifications which were
developed in the 1980s.
- The network operators could do this without you knowing about it if, for example,
the police requested it. For a period of a few weeks around 22 years ago one of
the network operators regularly sent me digital maps showing everywhere I had
been with my phone based on timing advance data as part of a collaboration
with an equipment manufacturer.
It was surprising how good they were. We compared them with GPS data from
a car fitted with mobile phone and GPS navigation systems. It was just over 22
years ago that selective availability was turned off which made GPS useful for
ordinary users.

John

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<55ea580f-9e21-4840-ae0e-c9193bbcbbb7n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110799&group=sci.electronics.design#110799

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7154:0:b0:399:2e73:5498 with SMTP id h20-20020ac87154000000b003992e735498mr28317820qtp.36.1669248464301;
Wed, 23 Nov 2022 16:07:44 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:ae9:e605:0:b0:6fa:2522:9c56 with SMTP id
z5-20020ae9e605000000b006fa25229c56mr13518852qkf.22.1669248464133; Wed, 23
Nov 2022 16:07:44 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 16:07:43 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <tlm3a1$1v5p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=46.134.188.10; posting-account=XS5sXwoAAABKU0kHcsk_nashWaidAu0Q
NNTP-Posting-Host: 46.134.188.10
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
<d2bc8df4-6595-4dce-bdc5-7bacb1254a42n@googlegroups.com> <tlm3a1$1v5p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <55ea580f-9e21-4840-ae0e-c9193bbcbbb7n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
From: manta1...@gmail.com (a a)
Injection-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 00:07:44 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 1221
 by: a a - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 00:07 UTC

#morongoaway

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<3f9c64ae-eb46-40c3-b733-adce1b6fdbdbn@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110800&group=sci.electronics.design#110800

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:60c3:0:b0:3a5:f9ba:8c68 with SMTP id i3-20020ac860c3000000b003a5f9ba8c68mr28279498qtm.192.1669248536626;
Wed, 23 Nov 2022 16:08:56 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a0c:efd0:0:b0:4bb:a80f:3f43 with SMTP id
a16-20020a0cefd0000000b004bba80f3f43mr11506796qvt.43.1669248536413; Wed, 23
Nov 2022 16:08:56 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 16:08:56 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <19e1a430-53b7-4de5-bc45-e976c625f65fn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=46.134.188.10; posting-account=XS5sXwoAAABKU0kHcsk_nashWaidAu0Q
NNTP-Posting-Host: 46.134.188.10
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
<d2bc8df4-6595-4dce-bdc5-7bacb1254a42n@googlegroups.com> <tlm3a1$1v5p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<19e1a430-53b7-4de5-bc45-e976c625f65fn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <3f9c64ae-eb46-40c3-b733-adce1b6fdbdbn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
From: manta1...@gmail.com (a a)
Injection-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 00:08:56 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 1372
 by: a a - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 00:08 UTC

is your Tesla supercharging fake or can be verified on Twitter by Elon Musk ?

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<0b1d2d53-f52d-4e08-9eed-e8cc3f88ae66n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110810&group=sci.electronics.design#110810

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1116:b0:6f9:fea2:833a with SMTP id o22-20020a05620a111600b006f9fea2833amr30820647qkk.659.1669307905659;
Thu, 24 Nov 2022 08:38:25 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4f2e:0:b0:4af:b373:3d40 with SMTP id
fc14-20020ad44f2e000000b004afb3733d40mr31567133qvb.47.1669307905322; Thu, 24
Nov 2022 08:38:25 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 08:38:25 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <80443368-7c29-49fc-8210-bc0f2b2e4a7bn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:5cc:4701:5250:2c7d:cbef:809:13f3;
posting-account=iGtwSwoAAABNNwPORfvAs6OM4AR9GRHt
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:5cc:4701:5250:2c7d:cbef:809:13f3
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
<d2bc8df4-6595-4dce-bdc5-7bacb1254a42n@googlegroups.com> <tlm3a1$1v5p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<19e1a430-53b7-4de5-bc45-e976c625f65fn@googlegroups.com> <80443368-7c29-49fc-8210-bc0f2b2e4a7bn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <0b1d2d53-f52d-4e08-9eed-e8cc3f88ae66n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
From: bloggs.f...@gmail.com (Fred Bloggs)
Injection-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 16:38:25 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 4120
 by: Fred Bloggs - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 16:38 UTC

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 6:00:02 PM UTC-5, John Walliker wrote:
> On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 at 21:52:31 UTC, Ricky wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 5:28:43 PM UTC-4, Lie by a a wrote:
> > > a a <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I developed GPS navigation based on triangulation of signal strength
> > > > from base stations 20 years ago to work for Nokia phones
> > > False.
> > >
> > > If you were intelligent enough to actually have achieved this then you
> > > would present here in the group as significantly more intelligent than
> > > you presently present.
> > >
> > > You present as someone with an IQ of about 50 or less -- therefore it
> > > is not possible for you to have achieved what you assert above based
> > > upon the evidence of your postings here.
> > >
> > > Try a more believable lie next time.
> > I don't know why, but this post really struck me as funny. It's especially so, because the author felt the need to hide his usual posting name, by using the name, "Lie by a a".
> >
> > LOL, sometimes this group is just too fucking nuts!
> >
> I know there isn't much point, but here goes:
> - GPS satellite navigation was already well established 20 years ago
> - Triangulation based on signal strength from base stations does not give very
> useful results because there are so many sources of variable attenuation
> - I was able to get good distance measurements from various base stations
> on a Nokia phone by reading out the timing advance data. This was available
> when the phone was switched into engineering mode and gave results accurate
> to a few hundred metres even when the base stations were many miles away.
> It didn't need to be invented - it was built into the GSM specifications which were
> developed in the 1980s.
> - The network operators could do this without you knowing about it if, for example,
> the police requested it. For a period of a few weeks around 22 years ago one of
> the network operators regularly sent me digital maps showing everywhere I had
> been with my phone based on timing advance data as part of a collaboration
> with an equipment manufacturer.
> It was surprising how good they were. We compared them with GPS data from
> a car fitted with mobile phone and GPS navigation systems. It was just over 22
> years ago that selective availability was turned off which made GPS useful for
> ordinary users.

Apparently a lot of hardware and science is being developed to support phone based position location.

From the co-author researchgate page:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Hui-Chen-150

>
> John

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<lb8vnhdjff54tvbmrgk8a06163a1knimni@4ax.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110813&group=sci.electronics.design#110813

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr3.iad1.usenetexpress.com!69.80.99.26.MISMATCH!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:02:23 +0000
From: jlar...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com (John Larkin)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 09:02:25 -0800
Organization: Highland Tech
Reply-To: xx@yy.com
Message-ID: <lb8vnhdjff54tvbmrgk8a06163a1knimni@4ax.com>
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 3.1/32.783
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 23
X-Trace: sv3-Cso9T35Ux25veyD+fhWhmhwLcf4663Fj/oNHlu59sLMUzcFQEYG25AAQywz+lbIh6GNlQw6tvdk+C64!wuevTUFAI6RxvqKfol/m3R5MtF3FSc56bV0/9l5EgK92BQt3OU2DG+rrziOvfMYMH5AoNAHrQc6u!hdohhw==
X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Received-Bytes: 2190
 by: John Larkin - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:02 UTC

On Wed, 23 Nov 2022 11:42:52 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>:
>Existing telecommunications infrastructure could operate as a miniaturized global positioning system, offering submetre resolution in urban areas and indoors, where location information from satellites is often inaccurate.
>:
>
>Agglomeration
>
>https://media.nature.com/original/magazine-assets/d41586-022-03696-3/d41586-022-03696-3.pdf

We need a single, Gen8 or something, wireless system that replaces
cell phone systems, wi-fi, cable TV, various expensive internet access
systems, street light and stoplight controls, webcams, fire and
security, utility metering, finding stolen cars, GPS location, finding
lost stuff, payments, everything.

It would of course have some side effects, like catching people
speeding and running red lights, and showing who was where when and
bought what.

It's got to happen.

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<817dd0e3-b1df-6f6b-dc9a-ef0ec610bb03@electrooptical.net>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110814&group=sci.electronics.design#110814

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pcdhSpam...@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 12:05:21 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <817dd0e3-b1df-6f6b-dc9a-ef0ec610bb03@electrooptical.net>
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
<lb8vnhdjff54tvbmrgk8a06163a1knimni@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="18dc29035e0e9992c89f28288d5a973f";
logging-data="745675"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/LN0BgQFtyjTIfvffNo2Jf"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:+iEQXkKMpVyDbkxEEfGXDHeaasc=
In-Reply-To: <lb8vnhdjff54tvbmrgk8a06163a1knimni@4ax.com>
 by: Phil Hobbs - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:05 UTC

John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2022 11:42:52 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> :
>> Existing telecommunications infrastructure could operate as a miniaturized global positioning system, offering submetre resolution in urban areas and indoors, where location information from satellites is often inaccurate.
>> :
>>
>> Agglomeration
>>
>> https://media.nature.com/original/magazine-assets/d41586-022-03696-3/d41586-022-03696-3.pdf
>
> We need a single, Gen8 or something, wireless system that replaces
> cell phone systems, wi-fi, cable TV, various expensive internet access
> systems, street light and stoplight controls, webcams, fire and
> security, utility metering, finding stolen cars, GPS location, finding
> lost stuff, payments, everything.
>
> It would of course have some side effects, like catching people
> speeding and running red lights, and showing who was where when and
> bought what.
>
> It's got to happen.
>

Thereby setting us up for the 21st C version of the Bronze Age Collapse.

Cheers

Phil "trust and diversify" Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<29bvnh9nv2m42jm1k5en91fk3q5nsbasi6@4ax.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110815&group=sci.electronics.design#110815

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!69.80.99.23.MISMATCH!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:48:23 +0000
From: jlar...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com (John Larkin)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 09:48:25 -0800
Organization: Highland Tech
Reply-To: xx@yy.com
Message-ID: <29bvnh9nv2m42jm1k5en91fk3q5nsbasi6@4ax.com>
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com> <lb8vnhdjff54tvbmrgk8a06163a1knimni@4ax.com> <817dd0e3-b1df-6f6b-dc9a-ef0ec610bb03@electrooptical.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 3.1/32.783
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 39
X-Trace: sv3-5k07Ro2rTWrJN+fo5+UVph37oqnUsaDskzPRxBcywqGPMxediMnTgTZNHTZcSVvVqjDLFa9zdC1RmUg!nJuLSgeeO0WaxQh7Hi2Kq/x2DlqJhBGbDw9T6xgL3Nh8ElWMohyJgjJzp9fmB+AEnkEuBqT/qgel!Hd87gQ==
X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Received-Bytes: 2888
 by: John Larkin - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:48 UTC

On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 12:05:21 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2022 11:42:52 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> :
>>> Existing telecommunications infrastructure could operate as a miniaturized global positioning system, offering submetre resolution in urban areas and indoors, where location information from satellites is often inaccurate.
>>> :
>>>
>>> Agglomeration
>>>
>>> https://media.nature.com/original/magazine-assets/d41586-022-03696-3/d41586-022-03696-3.pdf
>>
>> We need a single, Gen8 or something, wireless system that replaces
>> cell phone systems, wi-fi, cable TV, various expensive internet access
>> systems, street light and stoplight controls, webcams, fire and
>> security, utility metering, finding stolen cars, GPS location, finding
>> lost stuff, payments, everything.
>>
>> It would of course have some side effects, like catching people
>> speeding and running red lights, and showing who was where when and
>> bought what.
>>
>> It's got to happen.
>>
>
>Thereby setting us up for the 21st C version of the Bronze Age Collapse.

How would that happen? A diversified network should be as reliable as
electric or water supplies. The Internet is pretty reliable.

We'd need some laws to limit abuse, like making access to tracking
records need a good reason and a court order.

I just ordered a book about the Bronze Age Collapse. Sounds
interesting.

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<dc531ba0-d51b-4dec-8084-3eadb544f195n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110816&group=sci.electronics.design#110816

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5217:0:b0:39c:d479:b1d9 with SMTP id r23-20020ac85217000000b0039cd479b1d9mr13272473qtn.612.1669312232105;
Thu, 24 Nov 2022 09:50:32 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:5a96:b0:3a6:3b3a:e8cc with SMTP id
fz22-20020a05622a5a9600b003a63b3ae8ccmr22947117qtb.373.1669312231966; Thu, 24
Nov 2022 09:50:31 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 09:50:31 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <0b1d2d53-f52d-4e08-9eed-e8cc3f88ae66n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=77.213.100.59; posting-account=mW5JKwkAAAAMyuWOVeLp8yffyAkVx0g7
NNTP-Posting-Host: 77.213.100.59
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
<d2bc8df4-6595-4dce-bdc5-7bacb1254a42n@googlegroups.com> <tlm3a1$1v5p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<19e1a430-53b7-4de5-bc45-e976c625f65fn@googlegroups.com> <80443368-7c29-49fc-8210-bc0f2b2e4a7bn@googlegroups.com>
<0b1d2d53-f52d-4e08-9eed-e8cc3f88ae66n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <dc531ba0-d51b-4dec-8084-3eadb544f195n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
From: langw...@fonz.dk (Lasse Langwadt Christensen)
Injection-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:50:32 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 4272
 by: Lasse Langwadt Chris - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:50 UTC

torsdag den 24. november 2022 kl. 17.38.30 UTC+1 skrev Fred Bloggs:
> On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 6:00:02 PM UTC-5, John Walliker wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 at 21:52:31 UTC, Ricky wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 5:28:43 PM UTC-4, Lie by a a wrote:
> > > > a a <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I developed GPS navigation based on triangulation of signal strength
> > > > > from base stations 20 years ago to work for Nokia phones
> > > > False.
> > > >
> > > > If you were intelligent enough to actually have achieved this then you
> > > > would present here in the group as significantly more intelligent than
> > > > you presently present.
> > > >
> > > > You present as someone with an IQ of about 50 or less -- therefore it
> > > > is not possible for you to have achieved what you assert above based
> > > > upon the evidence of your postings here.
> > > >
> > > > Try a more believable lie next time.
> > > I don't know why, but this post really struck me as funny. It's especially so, because the author felt the need to hide his usual posting name, by using the name, "Lie by a a".
> > >
> > > LOL, sometimes this group is just too fucking nuts!
> > >
> > I know there isn't much point, but here goes:
> > - GPS satellite navigation was already well established 20 years ago
> > - Triangulation based on signal strength from base stations does not give very
> > useful results because there are so many sources of variable attenuation
> > - I was able to get good distance measurements from various base stations
> > on a Nokia phone by reading out the timing advance data. This was available
> > when the phone was switched into engineering mode and gave results accurate
> > to a few hundred metres even when the base stations were many miles away.
> > It didn't need to be invented - it was built into the GSM specifications which were
> > developed in the 1980s.
> > - The network operators could do this without you knowing about it if, for example,
> > the police requested it. For a period of a few weeks around 22 years ago one of
> > the network operators regularly sent me digital maps showing everywhere I had
> > been with my phone based on timing advance data as part of a collaboration
> > with an equipment manufacturer.
> > It was surprising how good they were. We compared them with GPS data from
> > a car fitted with mobile phone and GPS navigation systems. It was just over 22
> > years ago that selective availability was turned off which made GPS useful for
> > ordinary users.
> Apparently a lot of hardware and science is being developed to support phone based position location.
>

haven't 911 et al. not used a mix of GPS and triangulation to locate call for a long time?

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<e23df889-3d6a-42c5-bbf1-4f62ee959b44n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110820&group=sci.electronics.design#110820

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:4305:b0:4bb:e8a8:46b7 with SMTP id oe5-20020a056214430500b004bbe8a846b7mr15959384qvb.43.1669316071842;
Thu, 24 Nov 2022 10:54:31 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:13c1:0:b0:3a5:3ae2:ff14 with SMTP id
i1-20020ac813c1000000b003a53ae2ff14mr32382591qtj.594.1669316071610; Thu, 24
Nov 2022 10:54:31 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 10:54:31 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <dc531ba0-d51b-4dec-8084-3eadb544f195n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2001:8b0:fb4e:0:8286:f2ff:fe6b:6c87;
posting-account=de11ZAoAAACBQRb2jWnaIkHYK2q9mRvs
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:8b0:fb4e:0:8286:f2ff:fe6b:6c87
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
<d2bc8df4-6595-4dce-bdc5-7bacb1254a42n@googlegroups.com> <tlm3a1$1v5p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<19e1a430-53b7-4de5-bc45-e976c625f65fn@googlegroups.com> <80443368-7c29-49fc-8210-bc0f2b2e4a7bn@googlegroups.com>
<0b1d2d53-f52d-4e08-9eed-e8cc3f88ae66n@googlegroups.com> <dc531ba0-d51b-4dec-8084-3eadb544f195n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <e23df889-3d6a-42c5-bbf1-4f62ee959b44n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
From: jrwalli...@gmail.com (John Walliker)
Injection-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 18:54:31 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 4798
 by: John Walliker - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 18:54 UTC

On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 17:50:36 UTC, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> torsdag den 24. november 2022 kl. 17.38.30 UTC+1 skrev Fred Bloggs:
> > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 6:00:02 PM UTC-5, John Walliker wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 at 21:52:31 UTC, Ricky wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 5:28:43 PM UTC-4, Lie by a a wrote:
> > > > > a a <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > I developed GPS navigation based on triangulation of signal strength
> > > > > > from base stations 20 years ago to work for Nokia phones
> > > > > False.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you were intelligent enough to actually have achieved this then you
> > > > > would present here in the group as significantly more intelligent than
> > > > > you presently present.
> > > > >
> > > > > You present as someone with an IQ of about 50 or less -- therefore it
> > > > > is not possible for you to have achieved what you assert above based
> > > > > upon the evidence of your postings here.
> > > > >
> > > > > Try a more believable lie next time.
> > > > I don't know why, but this post really struck me as funny. It's especially so, because the author felt the need to hide his usual posting name, by using the name, "Lie by a a".
> > > >
> > > > LOL, sometimes this group is just too fucking nuts!
> > > >
> > > I know there isn't much point, but here goes:
> > > - GPS satellite navigation was already well established 20 years ago
> > > - Triangulation based on signal strength from base stations does not give very
> > > useful results because there are so many sources of variable attenuation
> > > - I was able to get good distance measurements from various base stations
> > > on a Nokia phone by reading out the timing advance data. This was available
> > > when the phone was switched into engineering mode and gave results accurate
> > > to a few hundred metres even when the base stations were many miles away.
> > > It didn't need to be invented - it was built into the GSM specifications which were
> > > developed in the 1980s.
> > > - The network operators could do this without you knowing about it if, for example,
> > > the police requested it. For a period of a few weeks around 22 years ago one of
> > > the network operators regularly sent me digital maps showing everywhere I had
> > > been with my phone based on timing advance data as part of a collaboration
> > > with an equipment manufacturer.
> > > It was surprising how good they were. We compared them with GPS data from
> > > a car fitted with mobile phone and GPS navigation systems. It was just over 22
> > > years ago that selective availability was turned off which made GPS useful for
> > > ordinary users.
> > Apparently a lot of hardware and science is being developed to support phone based position location.
> >
> haven't 911 et al. not used a mix of GPS and triangulation to locate call for a long time?

Yes, they have. However, the triangulation uses GSM timing advance data rather than
signal strength as that gives much better accuracy. I worked on such systems around
20 years ago. Nowadays GPS and its relatives are preferred because of the much higher
accuracy.

John

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<6bab44b1-e184-4663-b2d5-16d396659d05n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110821&group=sci.electronics.design#110821

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:3714:b0:6fa:16fe:93f6 with SMTP id de20-20020a05620a371400b006fa16fe93f6mr29610960qkb.258.1669316522146;
Thu, 24 Nov 2022 11:02:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:451b:b0:4c6:bf45:38ad with SMTP id
oo27-20020a056214451b00b004c6bf4538admr11788594qvb.73.1669316521770; Thu, 24
Nov 2022 11:02:01 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 11:02:01 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <e23df889-3d6a-42c5-bbf1-4f62ee959b44n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=46.134.5.126; posting-account=XS5sXwoAAABKU0kHcsk_nashWaidAu0Q
NNTP-Posting-Host: 46.134.5.126
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
<d2bc8df4-6595-4dce-bdc5-7bacb1254a42n@googlegroups.com> <tlm3a1$1v5p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<19e1a430-53b7-4de5-bc45-e976c625f65fn@googlegroups.com> <80443368-7c29-49fc-8210-bc0f2b2e4a7bn@googlegroups.com>
<0b1d2d53-f52d-4e08-9eed-e8cc3f88ae66n@googlegroups.com> <dc531ba0-d51b-4dec-8084-3eadb544f195n@googlegroups.com>
<e23df889-3d6a-42c5-bbf1-4f62ee959b44n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <6bab44b1-e184-4663-b2d5-16d396659d05n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
From: manta1...@gmail.com (a a)
Injection-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 19:02:02 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 5284
 by: a a - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 19:02 UTC

On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 19:54:35 UTC+1, John Walliker wrote:
> On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 17:50:36 UTC, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> > torsdag den 24. november 2022 kl. 17.38.30 UTC+1 skrev Fred Bloggs:
> > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 6:00:02 PM UTC-5, John Walliker wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 at 21:52:31 UTC, Ricky wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 5:28:43 PM UTC-4, Lie by a a wrote:
> > > > > > a a <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > I developed GPS navigation based on triangulation of signal strength
> > > > > > > from base stations 20 years ago to work for Nokia phones
> > > > > > False.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you were intelligent enough to actually have achieved this then you
> > > > > > would present here in the group as significantly more intelligent than
> > > > > > you presently present.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You present as someone with an IQ of about 50 or less -- therefore it
> > > > > > is not possible for you to have achieved what you assert above based
> > > > > > upon the evidence of your postings here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Try a more believable lie next time.
> > > > > I don't know why, but this post really struck me as funny. It's especially so, because the author felt the need to hide his usual posting name, by using the name, "Lie by a a".
> > > > >
> > > > > LOL, sometimes this group is just too fucking nuts!
> > > > >
> > > > I know there isn't much point, but here goes:
> > > > - GPS satellite navigation was already well established 20 years ago
> > > > - Triangulation based on signal strength from base stations does not give very
> > > > useful results because there are so many sources of variable attenuation
> > > > - I was able to get good distance measurements from various base stations
> > > > on a Nokia phone by reading out the timing advance data. This was available
> > > > when the phone was switched into engineering mode and gave results accurate
> > > > to a few hundred metres even when the base stations were many miles away.
> > > > It didn't need to be invented - it was built into the GSM specifications which were
> > > > developed in the 1980s.
> > > > - The network operators could do this without you knowing about it if, for example,
> > > > the police requested it. For a period of a few weeks around 22 years ago one of
> > > > the network operators regularly sent me digital maps showing everywhere I had
> > > > been with my phone based on timing advance data as part of a collaboration
> > > > with an equipment manufacturer.
> > > > It was surprising how good they were. We compared them with GPS data from
> > > > a car fitted with mobile phone and GPS navigation systems. It was just over 22
> > > > years ago that selective availability was turned off which made GPS useful for
> > > > ordinary users.
> > > Apparently a lot of hardware and science is being developed to support phone based position location.
> > >
> > haven't 911 et al. not used a mix of GPS and triangulation to locate call for a long time?
> Yes, they have. However, the triangulation uses GSM timing advance data rather than
> signal strength as that gives much better accuracy. I worked on such systems around
> 20 years ago. Nowadays GPS and its relatives are preferred because of the much higher
> accuracy.
>
> John
Google Street applied WiFi based navigation during the global road tour, building databases of fixed WiFi routers for the given geolocation.
So we preferred to switch our WiFi routers off while mobile Google Street scanners approached our region
not to have our Wifi routers included in their databases

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<b7be2ef5-06e7-4515-9f7f-a5bf8d21e2c0n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110823&group=sci.electronics.design#110823

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
X-Received: by 2002:ae9:ee07:0:b0:6fa:77c0:ea01 with SMTP id i7-20020ae9ee07000000b006fa77c0ea01mr14420017qkg.537.1669325502629;
Thu, 24 Nov 2022 13:31:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1b91:b0:6fc:1ac4:ea1b with SMTP id
dv17-20020a05620a1b9100b006fc1ac4ea1bmr11887166qkb.522.1669325502469; Thu, 24
Nov 2022 13:31:42 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 13:31:42 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <6bab44b1-e184-4663-b2d5-16d396659d05n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2001:8b0:fb4e:0:8286:f2ff:fe6b:6c87;
posting-account=de11ZAoAAACBQRb2jWnaIkHYK2q9mRvs
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:8b0:fb4e:0:8286:f2ff:fe6b:6c87
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
<d2bc8df4-6595-4dce-bdc5-7bacb1254a42n@googlegroups.com> <tlm3a1$1v5p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<19e1a430-53b7-4de5-bc45-e976c625f65fn@googlegroups.com> <80443368-7c29-49fc-8210-bc0f2b2e4a7bn@googlegroups.com>
<0b1d2d53-f52d-4e08-9eed-e8cc3f88ae66n@googlegroups.com> <dc531ba0-d51b-4dec-8084-3eadb544f195n@googlegroups.com>
<e23df889-3d6a-42c5-bbf1-4f62ee959b44n@googlegroups.com> <6bab44b1-e184-4663-b2d5-16d396659d05n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <b7be2ef5-06e7-4515-9f7f-a5bf8d21e2c0n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
From: jrwalli...@gmail.com (John Walliker)
Injection-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 21:31:42 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 5711
 by: John Walliker - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 21:31 UTC

On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 19:02:07 UTC, a a wrote:
> On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 19:54:35 UTC+1, John Walliker wrote:
> > On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 17:50:36 UTC, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> > > torsdag den 24. november 2022 kl. 17.38.30 UTC+1 skrev Fred Bloggs:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 6:00:02 PM UTC-5, John Walliker wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 at 21:52:31 UTC, Ricky wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 5:28:43 PM UTC-4, Lie by a a wrote:
> > > > > > > a a <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > I developed GPS navigation based on triangulation of signal strength
> > > > > > > > from base stations 20 years ago to work for Nokia phones
> > > > > > > False.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you were intelligent enough to actually have achieved this then you
> > > > > > > would present here in the group as significantly more intelligent than
> > > > > > > you presently present.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You present as someone with an IQ of about 50 or less -- therefore it
> > > > > > > is not possible for you to have achieved what you assert above based
> > > > > > > upon the evidence of your postings here.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Try a more believable lie next time.
> > > > > > I don't know why, but this post really struck me as funny. It's especially so, because the author felt the need to hide his usual posting name, by using the name, "Lie by a a".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > LOL, sometimes this group is just too fucking nuts!
> > > > > >
> > > > > I know there isn't much point, but here goes:
> > > > > - GPS satellite navigation was already well established 20 years ago
> > > > > - Triangulation based on signal strength from base stations does not give very
> > > > > useful results because there are so many sources of variable attenuation
> > > > > - I was able to get good distance measurements from various base stations
> > > > > on a Nokia phone by reading out the timing advance data. This was available
> > > > > when the phone was switched into engineering mode and gave results accurate
> > > > > to a few hundred metres even when the base stations were many miles away.
> > > > > It didn't need to be invented - it was built into the GSM specifications which were
> > > > > developed in the 1980s.
> > > > > - The network operators could do this without you knowing about it if, for example,
> > > > > the police requested it. For a period of a few weeks around 22 years ago one of
> > > > > the network operators regularly sent me digital maps showing everywhere I had
> > > > > been with my phone based on timing advance data as part of a collaboration
> > > > > with an equipment manufacturer.
> > > > > It was surprising how good they were. We compared them with GPS data from
> > > > > a car fitted with mobile phone and GPS navigation systems. It was just over 22
> > > > > years ago that selective availability was turned off which made GPS useful for
> > > > > ordinary users.
> > > > Apparently a lot of hardware and science is being developed to support phone based position location.
> > > >
> > > haven't 911 et al. not used a mix of GPS and triangulation to locate call for a long time?
> > Yes, they have. However, the triangulation uses GSM timing advance data rather than
> > signal strength as that gives much better accuracy. I worked on such systems around
> > 20 years ago. Nowadays GPS and its relatives are preferred because of the much higher
> > accuracy.
> >
> > John
> Google Street applied WiFi based navigation during the global road tour, building databases of fixed WiFi routers for the given geolocation.
> So we preferred to switch our WiFi routers off while mobile Google Street scanners approached our region
> not to have our Wifi routers included in their databases

Good luck with that. They will catch you when you are not looking. They do revisit
previously scanned areas from time to time.

John

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<94e7d80a-c9cb-47a6-9a35-71df584ec8dfn@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110825&group=sci.electronics.design#110825

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
X-Received: by 2002:a0c:fe90:0:b0:4c6:d886:2681 with SMTP id d16-20020a0cfe90000000b004c6d8862681mr5799970qvs.94.1669330735173;
Thu, 24 Nov 2022 14:58:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:ae9:de05:0:b0:6ec:620b:b286 with SMTP id
s5-20020ae9de05000000b006ec620bb286mr14567092qkf.629.1669330735013; Thu, 24
Nov 2022 14:58:55 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 14:58:54 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <b7be2ef5-06e7-4515-9f7f-a5bf8d21e2c0n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=46.134.50.202; posting-account=XS5sXwoAAABKU0kHcsk_nashWaidAu0Q
NNTP-Posting-Host: 46.134.50.202
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
<d2bc8df4-6595-4dce-bdc5-7bacb1254a42n@googlegroups.com> <tlm3a1$1v5p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<19e1a430-53b7-4de5-bc45-e976c625f65fn@googlegroups.com> <80443368-7c29-49fc-8210-bc0f2b2e4a7bn@googlegroups.com>
<0b1d2d53-f52d-4e08-9eed-e8cc3f88ae66n@googlegroups.com> <dc531ba0-d51b-4dec-8084-3eadb544f195n@googlegroups.com>
<e23df889-3d6a-42c5-bbf1-4f62ee959b44n@googlegroups.com> <6bab44b1-e184-4663-b2d5-16d396659d05n@googlegroups.com>
<b7be2ef5-06e7-4515-9f7f-a5bf8d21e2c0n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <94e7d80a-c9cb-47a6-9a35-71df584ec8dfn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
From: manta1...@gmail.com (a a)
Injection-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 22:58:55 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 6083
 by: a a - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 22:58 UTC

On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 22:31:46 UTC+1, John Walliker wrote:
> On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 19:02:07 UTC, a a wrote:
> > On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 19:54:35 UTC+1, John Walliker wrote:
> > > On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 17:50:36 UTC, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> > > > torsdag den 24. november 2022 kl. 17.38.30 UTC+1 skrev Fred Bloggs:
> > > > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 6:00:02 PM UTC-5, John Walliker wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 at 21:52:31 UTC, Ricky wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 5:28:43 PM UTC-4, Lie by a a wrote:
> > > > > > > > a a <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I developed GPS navigation based on triangulation of signal strength
> > > > > > > > > from base stations 20 years ago to work for Nokia phones
> > > > > > > > False.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you were intelligent enough to actually have achieved this then you
> > > > > > > > would present here in the group as significantly more intelligent than
> > > > > > > > you presently present.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You present as someone with an IQ of about 50 or less -- therefore it
> > > > > > > > is not possible for you to have achieved what you assert above based
> > > > > > > > upon the evidence of your postings here.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Try a more believable lie next time.
> > > > > > > I don't know why, but this post really struck me as funny. It's especially so, because the author felt the need to hide his usual posting name, by using the name, "Lie by a a".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > LOL, sometimes this group is just too fucking nuts!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > I know there isn't much point, but here goes:
> > > > > > - GPS satellite navigation was already well established 20 years ago
> > > > > > - Triangulation based on signal strength from base stations does not give very
> > > > > > useful results because there are so many sources of variable attenuation
> > > > > > - I was able to get good distance measurements from various base stations
> > > > > > on a Nokia phone by reading out the timing advance data. This was available
> > > > > > when the phone was switched into engineering mode and gave results accurate
> > > > > > to a few hundred metres even when the base stations were many miles away.
> > > > > > It didn't need to be invented - it was built into the GSM specifications which were
> > > > > > developed in the 1980s.
> > > > > > - The network operators could do this without you knowing about it if, for example,
> > > > > > the police requested it. For a period of a few weeks around 22 years ago one of
> > > > > > the network operators regularly sent me digital maps showing everywhere I had
> > > > > > been with my phone based on timing advance data as part of a collaboration
> > > > > > with an equipment manufacturer.
> > > > > > It was surprising how good they were. We compared them with GPS data from
> > > > > > a car fitted with mobile phone and GPS navigation systems. It was just over 22
> > > > > > years ago that selective availability was turned off which made GPS useful for
> > > > > > ordinary users.
> > > > > Apparently a lot of hardware and science is being developed to support phone based position location.
> > > > >
> > > > haven't 911 et al. not used a mix of GPS and triangulation to locate call for a long time?
> > > Yes, they have. However, the triangulation uses GSM timing advance data rather than
> > > signal strength as that gives much better accuracy. I worked on such systems around
> > > 20 years ago. Nowadays GPS and its relatives are preferred because of the much higher
> > > accuracy.
> > >
> > > John
> > Google Street applied WiFi based navigation during the global road tour, building databases of fixed WiFi routers for the given geolocation.
> > So we preferred to switch our WiFi routers off while mobile Google Street scanners approached our region
> > not to have our Wifi routers included in their databases
> Good luck with that. They will catch you when you are not looking. They do revisit
> previously scanned areas from time to time.
>
> John
I met Google scan car twice, coming from Holland.
Maps are updated from time to time, every 5-10 years
Interest in street view is below zero.
Street maps don't match satellite view

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<59222392-ebd3-4282-b638-11096cc26826n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110826&group=sci.electronics.design#110826

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4514:0:b0:4b1:9a02:458f with SMTP id k20-20020ad44514000000b004b19a02458fmr14691415qvu.22.1669341803507;
Thu, 24 Nov 2022 18:03:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:528d:0:b0:3a5:1eb:d8ab with SMTP id
s13-20020ac8528d000000b003a501ebd8abmr32834630qtn.443.1669341803297; Thu, 24
Nov 2022 18:03:23 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 18:03:23 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <ee4d6553-221b-414b-82d0-f616c2d09ee6n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=46.134.50.202; posting-account=XS5sXwoAAABKU0kHcsk_nashWaidAu0Q
NNTP-Posting-Host: 46.134.50.202
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com>
<d2bc8df4-6595-4dce-bdc5-7bacb1254a42n@googlegroups.com> <tlm3a1$1v5p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<19e1a430-53b7-4de5-bc45-e976c625f65fn@googlegroups.com> <80443368-7c29-49fc-8210-bc0f2b2e4a7bn@googlegroups.com>
<0b1d2d53-f52d-4e08-9eed-e8cc3f88ae66n@googlegroups.com> <dc531ba0-d51b-4dec-8084-3eadb544f195n@googlegroups.com>
<e23df889-3d6a-42c5-bbf1-4f62ee959b44n@googlegroups.com> <6bab44b1-e184-4663-b2d5-16d396659d05n@googlegroups.com>
<b7be2ef5-06e7-4515-9f7f-a5bf8d21e2c0n@googlegroups.com> <94e7d80a-c9cb-47a6-9a35-71df584ec8dfn@googlegroups.com>
<ee4d6553-221b-414b-82d0-f616c2d09ee6n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <59222392-ebd3-4282-b638-11096cc26826n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
From: manta1...@gmail.com (a a)
Injection-Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2022 02:03:23 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 2203
 by: a a - Fri, 25 Nov 2022 02:03 UTC

I early years of Google Maps I joined the team from Ireland to learn how to build maps, maps overlays, layers, vector and scalable objects, as my first hand experience not to hear stupid comments by moron from Sydney in a future.

Satellite view is in practice : airplane's view for better resolution.

Sat view maps should be back projected to sphere to match the grid of geolocated coordinate points from street view maps.

easy cake

Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS

<tlpi3j$1g6m$1@gioia.aioe.org>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=110828&group=sci.electronics.design#110828

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!HQqjtrwtWYY0cW+c5n/Byw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: lie-by...@liar.example.invalid (Lie by a a)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Phone signals can help you find your way without GPS
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2022 04:59:31 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <tlpi3j$1g6m$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <e2fa8e9e-322d-4087-99b9-66124b1ce0fbn@googlegroups.com> <e2b544f195n@googlegroups.com> <e23df889-3d6a-42c5-bbf1-4f62ee959b44n@googlegroups.com> <6bab44b1-e184-4663-b2d5-16d396659d05n@googlegroups.com> <b7be2ef5-06e7-4515-9f7f-a5bf8d21e2c0n@googlegroups.com> <94e7d80a-c9cb-47a6-9a35-71df584ec8dfn@googlegroups.com> <ee4d6553-221b-414b-82d0-f616c2d09ee6n@googlegroups.com> <59222392-ebd3-4282-b638-11096cc26826n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="49366"; posting-host="HQqjtrwtWYY0cW+c5n/Byw.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Lie by a a - Fri, 25 Nov 2022 04:59 UTC

a a <manta103g@gmail.com> wrote:
> I early years of Google Maps I joined the team from Ireland to learn
> how to build maps, maps overlays, layers, vector and scalable
> objects, as my first hand experience not to hear stupid comments by
> moron from Sydney in a future.

Another lie. You are not sufficiently intelligent (based upon your
postings here) to have ever qualified as more than the night-shift
toilet scrubber at anything google related.

Try a more believable lie next time, as it is not possible given your
lack of intelligence for you to have ever worked at google on maps.

Previous lies from the a a troll:

Lie: http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=166924650000
http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=166924651800

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor