SBF is alleged to impersonate the CEOs of both companies, but he didn't know he was in charge of both. He needs to be put away to avoid such mistakes in the future.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sbf-legal-liability-ftx-collapse-143111216.html

PS: nothing to do with electronics, but we do electronics for money, right?

On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 07:58:18 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

>SBF is alleged to impersonate the CEOs of both companies, but he didn't know he was in charge of both. He needs to be put away to avoid such mistakes in the future.
>
>https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sbf-legal-liability-ftx-collapse-143111216.html
>
>PS: nothing to do with electronics, but we do electronics for money, right?

Yes, but we have to build things that work, that people buy and own
because they think it's more useful than not.

Crypto is the opposite of useful things. It's expensive to make (and
so much CO2!) and has no inherent value. Crypto also has a horrific
failure rate and comes with no warranty.

I wonder why banking and stock trading regulations aren't applied to
crypto exchanges.

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 8:45:52 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 07:58:18 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >SBF is alleged to impersonate the CEOs of both companies, but he didn't know he was in charge of both. He needs to be put away to avoid such mistakes in the future.
> >
> >https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sbf-legal-liability-ftx-collapse-143111216.html
> >
> >PS: nothing to do with electronics, but we do electronics for money, right?
> Yes, but we have to build things that work, that people buy and own
> because they think it's more useful than not.
>
> Crypto is the opposite of useful things. It's expensive to make (and
> so much CO2!) and has no inherent value. Crypto also has a horrific
> failure rate and comes with no warranty.
>
> I wonder why banking and stock trading regulations aren't applied to
> crypto exchanges.

Crypto itself have some use. For instance, helping some in Ukraine (for gov) and China (against gov). But FTX/SBF scam hurts lot of people everywhere.

On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 09:09:42 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 8:45:52 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 07:58:18 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
>> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >SBF is alleged to impersonate the CEOs of both companies, but he didn't know he was in charge of both. He needs to be put away to avoid such mistakes in the future.
>> >
>> >https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sbf-legal-liability-ftx-collapse-143111216.html
>> >
>> >PS: nothing to do with electronics, but we do electronics for money, right?
>> Yes, but we have to build things that work, that people buy and own
>> because they think it's more useful than not.
>>
>> Crypto is the opposite of useful things. It's expensive to make (and
>> so much CO2!) and has no inherent value. Crypto also has a horrific
>> failure rate and comes with no warranty.
>>
>> I wonder why banking and stock trading regulations aren't applied to
>> crypto exchanges.
>
>Crypto itself have some use. For instance, helping some in Ukraine (for gov) and China (against gov). But FTX/SBF scam hurts lot of people everywhere.

Surely there are other ways to transfer money. Crypto is radically
unstable.

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:35:31 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 09:09:42 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 8:45:52 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 07:58:18 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
> >> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >SBF is alleged to impersonate the CEOs of both companies, but he didn't know he was in charge of both. He needs to be put away to avoid such mistakes in the future.
> >> >
> >> >https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sbf-legal-liability-ftx-collapse-143111216.html
> >> >
> >> >PS: nothing to do with electronics, but we do electronics for money, right?
> >> Yes, but we have to build things that work, that people buy and own
> >> because they think it's more useful than not.
> >>
> >> Crypto is the opposite of useful things. It's expensive to make (and
> >> so much CO2!) and has no inherent value. Crypto also has a horrific
> >> failure rate and comes with no warranty.
> >>
> >> I wonder why banking and stock trading regulations aren't applied to
> >> crypto exchanges.
> >
> >Crypto itself have some use. For instance, helping some in Ukraine (for gov) and China (against gov). But FTX/SBF scam hurts lot of people everywhere.
> Surely there are other ways to transfer money. Crypto is radically
> unstable.

For Ukraine, it's simplicity. For China, it's anonymity. Exchange should be handled in establishment like CME/OTC, not some 20 something kids, or some companies in Bahama.

John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 07:58:18 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
> <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> SBF is alleged to impersonate the CEOs of both companies, but he didn't know he was in charge of both. He needs to be put away to avoid such mistakes in the future.
>>
>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sbf-legal-liability-ftx-collapse-143111216.html
>>
>> PS: nothing to do with electronics, but we do electronics for money, right?
>
> Yes, but we have to build things that work, that people buy and own
> because they think it's more useful than not.
>
> Crypto is the opposite of useful things. It's expensive to make (and
> so much CO2!) and has no inherent value. Crypto also has a horrific
> failure rate and comes with no warranty.
>
> I wonder why banking and stock trading regulations aren't applied to
> crypto exchanges.
>
Because it's an agricultural product, like tobacco. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 09:09:42 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
> <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 8:45:52 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 07:58:18 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
>>> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> SBF is alleged to impersonate the CEOs of both companies, but he didn't know he was in charge of both. He needs to be put away to avoid such mistakes in the future.
>>>>
>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sbf-legal-liability-ftx-collapse-143111216.html
>>>>
>>>> PS: nothing to do with electronics, but we do electronics for money, right?
>>> Yes, but we have to build things that work, that people buy and own
>>> because they think it's more useful than not.
>>>
>>> Crypto is the opposite of useful things. It's expensive to make (and
>>> so much CO2!) and has no inherent value. Crypto also has a horrific
>>> failure rate and comes with no warranty.
>>>
>>> I wonder why banking and stock trading regulations aren't applied to
>>> crypto exchanges.
>>
>> Crypto itself have some use. For instance, helping some in Ukraine (for gov) and China (against gov). But FTX/SBF scam hurts lot of people everywhere.
>
> Surely there are other ways to transfer money. Crypto is radically
> unstable.
>

Getting money out of China is very very difficult now, or so I'm told.
Also people.

It really is North Korea, only bigger. :(

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:30:18 AM UTC-8, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> John Larkin wrote:
> > On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 09:09:42 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
> > <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 8:45:52 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 07:58:18 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
> >>> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> SBF is alleged to impersonate the CEOs of both companies, but he didn't know he was in charge of both. He needs to be put away to avoid such mistakes in the future.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sbf-legal-liability-ftx-collapse-143111216.html
> >>>>
> >>>> PS: nothing to do with electronics, but we do electronics for money, right?
> >>> Yes, but we have to build things that work, that people buy and own
> >>> because they think it's more useful than not.
> >>>
> >>> Crypto is the opposite of useful things. It's expensive to make (and
> >>> so much CO2!) and has no inherent value. Crypto also has a horrific
> >>> failure rate and comes with no warranty.
> >>>
> >>> I wonder why banking and stock trading regulations aren't applied to
> >>> crypto exchanges.
> >>
> >> Crypto itself have some use. For instance, helping some in Ukraine (for gov) and China (against gov). But FTX/SBF scam hurts lot of people everywhere.
> >
> > Surely there are other ways to transfer money. Crypto is radically
> > unstable.
> >
> Getting money out of China is very very difficult now, or so I'm told.
> Also people.

Getting money into Ukraine is also difficult. Bankers don't want to be there now.

On 01/12/2022 16:45, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 07:58:18 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
> <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> SBF is alleged to impersonate the CEOs of both companies, but he didn't know he was in charge of both. He needs to be put away to avoid such mistakes in the future.
>>
>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sbf-legal-liability-ftx-collapse-143111216.html
>>
>> PS: nothing to do with electronics, but we do electronics for money, right?
>
> Yes, but we have to build things that work, that people buy and own
> because they think it's more useful than not.

You can also have pieces of art which are not actually useful but are by
all reasonable definitions valuable because of the workmanship and
creativity that goes into them.

You can also have have crap art taking the piss which includes the likes
of Tracy Emin's bed which is valuable only because she was already
famous and some people have more money than sense.

https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/emin-my-bed-l03662

Or Andre's creative arrangement of 120 firebricks (which they lost!)

https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/andre-equivalent-viii-t01534

It was always interesting to see what there was in the Turner prize
submissions. It would vary from some really excellent stuff to total
crap (badly made) neon signs by the usual suspects at insane prices. I
guess someone must buy them...

> Crypto is the opposite of useful things. It's expensive to make (and
> so much CO2!) and has no inherent value. Crypto also has a horrific
> failure rate and comes with no warranty.

Actually the distributed ledger of Bitcoin is quite reliable and being
decentralised very difficult to fake or control. The problem arises with
middlemen promising to look after your crypto currency for you (like a
bank but without *any* regulation at all). Ironically this was the very
thing that the inventors of Bitcoin were trying to avoid!
>
> I wonder why banking and stock trading regulations aren't applied to
> crypto exchanges.

It is too new and so few understand it. They can make wild claims and be
believed. You get very rich if you pump and dump - what a surprise that
is! Very tough on the clueless muppets that pile in on the bandwagon.

CAVEAT EMPTOR writ large.

It isn't dissimilar to the South Sea bubble or even more apposite the
Mississippi bubble of the 18th century where a financial "genius" did
about the same thing as SBF using the then novel instruments of the day.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Mississippi-Bubble

It seems that pump and dump is a perennial way for a very few clever
people with absolutely no scruples to get incredibly rich. The most
recent example was Theranos and Ms Holmes (now found guilty).

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/14/health/theranos-elizabeth-holmes-fraud.html

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Thursday, 1 December 2022 at 19:25:23 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 01/12/2022 16:45, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 07:58:18 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
> > <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> SBF is alleged to impersonate the CEOs of both companies, but he didn't know he was in charge of both. He needs to be put away to avoid such mistakes in the future.
> >>
> >> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sbf-legal-liability-ftx-collapse-143111216.html
> >>
> >> PS: nothing to do with electronics, but we do electronics for money, right?
> >
> > Yes, but we have to build things that work, that people buy and own
> > because they think it's more useful than not.
> You can also have pieces of art which are not actually useful but are by
> all reasonable definitions valuable because of the workmanship and
> creativity that goes into them.
>
> You can also have have crap art taking the piss which includes the likes
> of Tracy Emin's bed which is valuable only because she was already
> famous and some people have more money than sense.
>
> https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/emin-my-bed-l03662
>
> Or Andre's creative arrangement of 120 firebricks (which they lost!)
>
> https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/andre-equivalent-viii-t01534
>
> It was always interesting to see what there was in the Turner prize
> submissions. It would vary from some really excellent stuff to total
> crap (badly made) neon signs by the usual suspects at insane prices. I
> guess someone must buy them...
> > Crypto is the opposite of useful things. It's expensive to make (and
> > so much CO2!) and has no inherent value. Crypto also has a horrific
> > failure rate and comes with no warranty.
> Actually the distributed ledger of Bitcoin is quite reliable and being
> decentralised very difficult to fake or control. The problem arises with
> middlemen promising to look after your crypto currency for you (like a
> bank but without *any* regulation at all). Ironically this was the very
> thing that the inventors of Bitcoin were trying to avoid!
> >
> > I wonder why banking and stock trading regulations aren't applied to
> > crypto exchanges.
> It is too new and so few understand it. They can make wild claims and be
> believed. You get very rich if you pump and dump - what a surprise that
> is! Very tough on the clueless muppets that pile in on the bandwagon.
>
> CAVEAT EMPTOR writ large.
>
> It isn't dissimilar to the South Sea bubble or even more apposite the
> Mississippi bubble of the 18th century where a financial "genius" did
> about the same thing as SBF using the then novel instruments of the day.
>
> https://www.britannica.com/event/Mississippi-Bubble
>
> It seems that pump and dump is a perennial way for a very few clever
> people with absolutely no scruples to get incredibly rich. The most
> recent example was Theranos and Ms Holmes (now found guilty).
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/14/health/theranos-elizabeth-holmes-fraud.html

I am sure that much of the attraction of Bitcoin and its lookalikes was the idea
that it gave anonymity. However, the public nature of the ledger means that for
organisations with substantial resources it is quite the opposite.
John

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:58:24 AM UTC-8, Ed Lee wrote:
> SBF is alleged to impersonate the CEOs of both companies, but he didn't know he was in charge of both. He needs to be put away to avoid such mistakes in the future.
>
> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sbf-legal-liability-ftx-collapse-143111216..html
>

Absolute B.S. He should have pleaded the 5th.

"But when Bankman-Fried says, “I don’t control her,” what he’s really saying is, It’s Caroline’s fault. This tracks with the implications of various public statements he’s indirectly made about Ellison."

"Bankman-Fried owned about 90 percent of Alameda — meaning that 90 cents out of every dollar in profit went to him. As others have pointed out, this was his money."

He doesn't control the CEO of a company with his 90% ownership?

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/12/sam-bankman-fried-may-regret-his-comment-on-caroline-ellison.html