humans in North America during the Last Glacial Maximum
Matthew R Bennett cs 2021 Science 373:1528-1531
doi 10.1126/science.abg7586

Archaeologists & researchers in allied fields have long sought to understand human colonization of N.America:
-when & how did people migrate?
-where did they originate?
-how did their arrival affect the established fauna & landscape?

Here we present evidence from excavated surfaces in White Sands Nat.Park (US) where multiple in situ human footprints are stratigraphically constrained & bracketed by seed layers that yield calibrated radio-C ages between ~23 & 21 ka. This
-confirms humans in N.America during the LGMaximum

-

Hs Euro in subarctic

https://scitechdaily-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/scitechdaily.com/archaeological-evidence-shows-early-homo-sapiens-in-europe-faced-subarctic-climates/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16324367359011&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fscitechdaily.com%2Farchaeological-evidence-shows-early-homo-sapiens-in-europe-faced-subarctic-cli7mates%2F

[Clue: shelters, not beaches, not in water]

-

Euro minority language atlas
https://atlas.limsi.fr/?tab=EU

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

> Hs Euro in subarctic
>
> https://scitechdaily-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/scitechdaily.com/archaeological-evidence-shows-early-homo-sapiens-in-europe-faced-subarctic-climates/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16324367359011&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fscitechdaily.com%2Farchaeological-evidence-shows-early-homo-sapiens-in-europe-faced-subarctic-cli7mates%2F

What are the dates?

I'm ignoring your inability to grasp Aquatic Ape. There's no point in trying. Not with you. So,
what are the dates for your subarctic humans?

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/663167274266525696

I Envy JTEM wrote:
> DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>
>> Hs Euro in subarctic
>>
>> https://scitechdaily-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/scitechdaily.com/archaeological-evidence-shows-early-homo-sapiens-in-europe-faced-subarctic-climates/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16324367359011&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fscitechdaily.com%2Farchaeological-evidence-shows-early-homo-sapiens-in-europe-faced-subarctic-cli7mates%2F
>
> What are the dates?
>
> I'm ignoring your inability to grasp Aquatic Ape. There's no point in trying. Not with you. So,
> what are the dates for your subarctic humans?

It's in the link.

Cleaned up URL

https://scitechdaily.com/archaeological-evidence-shows-early-homo-sapiens-in-europe-faced-subarctic-climates/

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> humans in North America during the Last Glacial Maximum
> Matthew R Bennett cs 2021 Science 373:1528-1531
> doi 10.1126/science.abg7586
>
> Archaeologists & researchers in allied fields have long sought to understand human colonization of N.America:
> -when & how did people migrate?
> -where did they originate?
> -how did their arrival affect the established fauna & landscape?
>
> Here we present evidence from excavated surfaces in White Sands Nat.Park (US) where multiple in situ human footprints are stratigraphically constrained & bracketed by seed layers that yield calibrated radio-C ages between ~23 & 21 ka. This
> -confirms humans in N.America during the LGMaximum

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abg7586
Evidence of humans in North America during the Last Glacial Maximum

"Ichnofossils of extinct late Pleistocene fauna occur widely on the margins
of the playa and include tracks of Proboscidea (mammoth), Folivora (ground
sloth), Carnivora (canid and felid), and Cetartiodactyla (bovid and camelid),
most of which are associated with human footprints (16–18)."

"Footprints (human, proboscidean, and canid) occur at all levels..."

"Many tracks appear to be those of teenagers and children; large adult
footprints are less frequent. One hypothesis for this is the division of
labor, in which adults are involved in skilled tasks whereas “fetching and
carrying” are delegated to teenagers. Children accompany the teenagers,
and collectively they leave a higher number of footprints that are
preferentially recorded in the fossil record. This pattern is common to all
excavated surfaces."

"Our data and modeling results show that the ages of TH2 through TH6
span from ~23 to 21 ka (Fig. 3 and fig. S16), placing humans in
southwestern North America for approximately two millennia during the
LGM. The presence of proboscidean tracks in TH8 places an additional
constraint on the upper age of the sequence, showing that it does not
extend beyond the late Pleistocene."

"The evidence presented here confirms that humans were present in North
America before the glacial advances of the LGM closed the Ice-Free Corridor
and the Pacific Coastal Route and prevented human migration from Asia. The
overlap of humans and megafauna for at least two millennia during this time
suggests that if people were hunting megafauna the practices were
sustainable,
at least initially. "

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 12:01:37 AM UTC-4, Primum Sapienti wrote:
> DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > humans in North America during the Last Glacial Maximum
> > Matthew R Bennett cs 2021 Science 373:1528-1531
> > doi 10.1126/science.abg7586
> >
> > Archaeologists & researchers in allied fields have long sought to understand human colonization of N.America:
> > -when & how did people migrate?
> > -where did they originate?
> > -how did their arrival affect the established fauna & landscape?
> >
> > Here we present evidence from excavated surfaces in White Sands Nat.Park (US) where multiple in situ human footprints are stratigraphically constrained & bracketed by seed layers that yield calibrated radio-C ages between ~23 & 21 ka. This
> > -confirms humans in N.America during the LGMaximum
> https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abg7586
> Evidence of humans in North America during the Last Glacial Maximum
>
> "Ichnofossils of extinct late Pleistocene fauna occur widely on the margins
> of the playa and include tracks of Proboscidea (mammoth), Folivora (ground
> sloth), Carnivora (canid and felid), and Cetartiodactyla (bovid and camelid),
> most of which are associated with human footprints (16–18)."
>
> "Footprints (human, proboscidean, and canid) occur at all levels..."
>
> "Many tracks appear to be those of teenagers and children; large adult
> footprints are less frequent. One hypothesis for this is the division of
> labor, in which adults are involved in skilled tasks whereas “fetching and
> carrying” are delegated to teenagers. Children accompany the teenagers,
> and collectively they leave a higher number of footprints that are
> preferentially recorded in the fossil record. This pattern is common to all
> excavated surfaces."
>
> "Our data and modeling results show that the ages of TH2 through TH6
> span from ~23 to 21 ka (Fig. 3 and fig. S16), placing humans in
> southwestern North America for approximately two millennia during the
> LGM. The presence of proboscidean tracks in TH8 places an additional
> constraint on the upper age of the sequence, showing that it does not
> extend beyond the late Pleistocene."
>
> "The evidence presented here confirms that humans were present in North
> America before the glacial advances of the LGM closed the Ice-Free Corridor
> and the Pacific Coastal Route and prevented human migration from Asia. The
> overlap of humans and megafauna for at least two millennia during this time
> suggests that if people were hunting megafauna the practices were
> sustainable,
> at least initially. "

Thanks PS, I missed the manx cat ref.
'Teens fetching & carrying' is I think a Hs habit, He didn't have the extremely extended childhood/teen late puberty imo, didn't have Hs secondary growth spurt. Claims that Turkana Boy would have continued to grow taller if he'd lived are premature, more likely he was nearly at max height. Pygmies have no pubertal growth spurt, I think that was the archaic norm, with a longer primary growth spurt than typical Hs. The transition from He to Hs may have aligned with the transition from portable domeshields w/o domestic fire to dome huts with hearths, allowing extended childhoods of many non-reproductive smartening small-framed bodies sheltered Hs vs He's one-child-per-adult-per-domeshield where the father and mother slept under adjacent roofs..

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 2:49:27 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 12:01:37 AM UTC-4, Primum Sapienti wrote:
> > DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > > humans in North America during the Last Glacial Maximum
> > > Matthew R Bennett cs 2021 Science 373:1528-1531
> > > doi 10.1126/science.abg7586
> > >
> > > Archaeologists & researchers in allied fields have long sought to understand human colonization of N.America:
> > > -when & how did people migrate?
> > > -where did they originate?
> > > -how did their arrival affect the established fauna & landscape?
> > >
> > > Here we present evidence from excavated surfaces in White Sands Nat.Park (US) where multiple in situ human footprints are stratigraphically constrained & bracketed by seed layers that yield calibrated radio-C ages between ~23 & 21 ka. This
> > > -confirms humans in N.America during the LGMaximum
> > https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abg7586
> > Evidence of humans in North America during the Last Glacial Maximum
> >
> > "Ichnofossils of extinct late Pleistocene fauna occur widely on the margins
> > of the playa and include tracks of Proboscidea (mammoth), Folivora (ground
> > sloth), Carnivora (canid and felid), and Cetartiodactyla (bovid and camelid),
> > most of which are associated with human footprints (16–18)."
> >
> > "Footprints (human, proboscidean, and canid) occur at all levels..."
> >
> > "Many tracks appear to be those of teenagers and children; large adult
> > footprints are less frequent. One hypothesis for this is the division of
> > labor, in which adults are involved in skilled tasks whereas “fetching and
> > carrying” are delegated to teenagers. Children accompany the teenagers,
> > and collectively they leave a higher number of footprints that are
> > preferentially recorded in the fossil record. This pattern is common to all
> > excavated surfaces."
> >
> > "Our data and modeling results show that the ages of TH2 through TH6
> > span from ~23 to 21 ka (Fig. 3 and fig. S16), placing humans in
> > southwestern North America for approximately two millennia during the
> > LGM. The presence of proboscidean tracks in TH8 places an additional
> > constraint on the upper age of the sequence, showing that it does not
> > extend beyond the late Pleistocene."
> >
> > "The evidence presented here confirms that humans were present in North
> > America before the glacial advances of the LGM closed the Ice-Free Corridor
> > and the Pacific Coastal Route and prevented human migration from Asia. The
> > overlap of humans and megafauna for at least two millennia during this time
> > suggests that if people were hunting megafauna the practices were
> > sustainable,
> > at least initially. "
> Thanks PS, I missed the manx cat ref.
> 'Teens fetching & carrying' is I think a Hs habit, He didn't have the extremely extended childhood/teen late puberty imo, didn't have Hs secondary growth spurt. Claims that Turkana Boy would have continued to grow taller if he'd lived are premature, more likely he was nearly at max height. Pygmies have no pubertal growth spurt, I think that was the archaic norm, with a longer primary growth spurt than typical Hs. The transition from He to Hs may have aligned with the transition from portable domeshields w/o domestic fire to dome huts with hearths, allowing extended childhoods of many non-reproductive smartening small-framed bodies sheltered Hs vs He's one-child-per-adult-per-domeshield where the father and mother slept under adjacent roofs.

Note: no dog tracks. Beringians had domestic dogs, Andamaners didn't.

On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 11:44:59 PM UTC+1, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

> Here we present evidence from excavated surfaces in White Sands Nat.Park (US)
> where multiple in situ human footprints are stratigraphically constrained &
> bracketed by seed layers that yield calibrated radio-C ages between ~23 & 21 ka.
> This confirms humans in N.America during the LGMaximum

White Sands Nat Park is at 32 degrees latitude -- the same
as San Diego, or the Mexican border south of Los Angeles.
It was 1,000 miles from any ice during the LGM (Last
Glacial Maximum). Being 'cold-adapted' was hardly
necessary.

> Hs Euro in subarctic

Similarly the site in Bulgaria is less than 200 km from
the modern Black Sea. It was probably only occupied
by Hs during summer hunting expeditions. They say
the climate was like that of Russia or Scandinavia.
Both are warm (if often too hot) in the summer.

Very misleading title for this thread.

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 7:56:13 AM UTC-4, Paul Crowley wrote:
> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 11:44:59 PM UTC+1, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>
> > Here we present evidence from excavated surfaces in White Sands Nat.Park (US)
> > where multiple in situ human footprints are stratigraphically constrained &
> > bracketed by seed layers that yield calibrated radio-C ages between ~23 & 21 ka.
> > This confirms humans in N.America during the LGMaximum
>
> White Sands Nat Park is at 32 degrees latitude -- the same
> as San Diego, or the Mexican border south of Los Angeles.
> It was 1,000 miles from any ice during the LGM (Last
>@££ Glacial Maximum). Being 'cold-adapted' was hardly
> necessary.
>
> > Hs Euro in subarctic
>
> Similarly the site in Bulgaria is less than 200 km from
> the modern Black Sea. It was probably only occupied
> by Hs during summer hunting expeditions. They say
> the climate was like that of Russia or Scandinavia.
> Both are warm (if often too hot) in the summer.
>
> Very misleading title for this thread.

How did they get to White Sands (which has cold winter nights)? Canoe along the tropic of cancer wearing bikinis?
Subarctic can have warm summers but year-round ave. temps aren't warm.

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 12:01:37 AM UTC-4, Primum Sapienti wrote:
>> DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>> humans in North America during the Last Glacial Maximum
>>> Matthew R Bennett cs 2021 Science 373:1528-1531
>>> doi 10.1126/science.abg7586

> 'Teens fetching & carrying' is I think a Hs habit, He didn't have the extremely extended childhood/teen late puberty imo, didn't have Hs secondary growth spurt. Claims that Turkana Boy would have continued to grow taller if he'd lived are premature, more likely he was nearly at

Quite so, at or near max height, a result or reaching maturation
faster/earlier than humans.

max height. Pygmies have no pubertal growth spurt, I think that was the
archaic norm, with a longer primary growth spurt than typical Hs. The
transition from He to Hs may have aligned with the transition from
portable domeshields w/o domestic fire to dome huts with hearths, allowing
extended childhoods of many non-reproductive smartening small-framed
bodies sheltered Hs vs He's one-child-per-adult-per-domeshield where the
father and mother slept under adjacent roofs.
>

Lithic materials were carried for tens of kilometers.

On Friday 24 September 2021 at 22:00:49 UTC+1, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 7:56:13 AM UTC-4, Paul Crowley wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 11:44:59 PM UTC+1, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >
> > > Here we present evidence from excavated surfaces in White Sands Nat.Park (US)
> > > where multiple in situ human footprints are stratigraphically constrained &
> > > bracketed by seed layers that yield calibrated radio-C ages between ~23 & 21 ka.
> > > This confirms humans in N.America during the LGMaximum
> >
> > White Sands Nat Park is at 32 degrees latitude -- the same
> > as San Diego, or the Mexican border south of Los Angeles.
> > It was 1,000 miles from any ice during the LGM (Last
> >@££ Glacial Maximum). Being 'cold-adapted' was hardly
> > necessary.
> >
> > > Hs Euro in subarctic
> >
> > Similarly the site in Bulgaria is less than 200 km from
> > the modern Black Sea. It was probably only occupied
> > by Hs during summer hunting expeditions. They say
> > the climate was like that of Russia or Scandinavia.
> > Both are warm (if often too hot) in the summer.
> >
> > Very misleading title for this thread.
> >
> How did they get to White Sands (which has cold winter nights)?

A party of adults (and maybe some sub-adults)
migrated there in the summer. They were
probably more-or-less lost. But this group
found a site with with food and shelter, where
they could raise children. They would have
had fire, cooking, clothing and good tool- and
weapon-making capacity. Certainly no need
for any special "cold adaptations'.

> Subarctic can have warm summers but year-round ave. temps aren't warm.

White Sands was never 'subarctic'.

On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 6:04:07 PM UTC-4, Paul Crowley wrote:
> On Friday 24 September 2021 at 22:00:49 UTC+1, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 7:56:13 AM UTC-4, Paul Crowley wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 11:44:59 PM UTC+1, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > >
> > > > Here we present evidence from excavated surfaces in White Sands Nat..Park (US)
> > > > where multiple in situ human footprints are stratigraphically constrained &
> > > > bracketed by seed layers that yield calibrated radio-C ages between ~23 & 21 ka.
> > > > This confirms humans in N.America during the LGMaximum
> > >
> > > White Sands Nat Park is at 32 degrees latitude -- the same
> > > as San Diego, or the Mexican border south of Los Angeles.
> > > It was 1,000 miles from any ice during the LGM (Last
> > >@££ Glacial Maximum). Being 'cold-adapted' was hardly
> > > necessary.
> > >
> > > > Hs Euro in subarctic
> > >
> > > Similarly the site in Bulgaria is less than 200 km from
> > > the modern Black Sea. It was probably only occupied
> > > by Hs during summer hunting expeditions. They say
> > > the climate was like that of Russia or Scandinavia.
> > > Both are warm (if often too hot) in the summer.
> > >
> > > Very misleading title for this thread.
> > >
> > How did they get to White Sands (which has cold winter nights)?
> A party of adults (and maybe some sub-adults)
> migrated there in the summer. They were
> probably more-or-less lost. But this group
> found a site with with food and shelter, where
> they could raise children. They would have
> had fire, cooking, clothing and good tool- and
> weapon-making capacity. Certainly no need
> for any special "cold adaptations'.
> > Subarctic can have warm summers but year-round ave. temps aren't warm.
> White Sands was never 'subarctic'.

So how did they get from the old world to white sands?

On Tuesday 5 October 2021 at 00:56:06 UTC+1, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

> > A party of adults (and maybe some sub-adults)
> > migrated there in the summer. They were
> > probably more-or-less lost. But this group
> > found a site with with food and shelter, where
> > they could raise children. They would have
> > had fire, cooking, clothing and good tool- and
> > weapon-making capacity. Certainly no need
> > for any special "cold adaptations'.
> >
> > > Subarctic can have warm summers but year-round ave. temps aren't warm.
> >
> > White Sands was never 'subarctic'.
>
> So how did they get from the old world to white sands?

My point was to criticise the 'archaeology' of
the original article, which was based on the
latitude of White Sands and of the site 200 km
west of the Black Sea. Neither required 'cold-
adaptations'/

Maybe you could argue that the ancestors of
Native Americans were cold-adapted, as a
consequence of having to get there by walking
through arctic and subarctic conditions (over
many generations). But that's a different
argument. In any case, I'd say that those first
migrants used boats, and were at sea-level in all
their settlements, and were not particularly '
cold-adapted'.

On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 10:27:04 AM UTC-4, Paul Crowley wrote:
> On Tuesday 5 October 2021 at 00:56:06 UTC+1, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>
> > > A party of adults (and maybe some sub-adults)
> > > migrated there in the summer. They were
> > > probably more-or-less lost. But this group
> > > found a site with with food and shelter, where
> > > they could raise children. They would have
> > > had fire, cooking, clothing and good tool- and
> > > weapon-making capacity. Certainly no need
> > > for any special "cold adaptations'.
> > >
> > > > Subarctic can have warm summers but year-round ave. temps aren't warm.
> > >
> > > White Sands was never 'subarctic'.
> >
> > So how did they get from the old world to white sands?
> My point was to criticise the 'archaeology' of
> the original article, which was based on the
> latitude of White Sands and of the site 200 km
> west of the Black Sea. Neither required 'cold-
> adaptations'/
>
> Maybe you could argue that the ancestors of
> Native Americans were cold-adapted, as a
> consequence of having to get there by walking
> through arctic and subarctic conditions (over
> many generations). But that's a different
> argument. In any case, I'd say that those first
> migrants used boats, and were at sea-level in all
> their settlements, and were not particularly '
> cold-adapted'.

Elevation some millions of years was sea level, but today 4,300', quite a climb from today's sea level.. The white sand is actually gypsum, which does not absorb sunshine, walking the dunes is cool even during midday. You think they had watercraft that could handle Pacific storms?

On Tuesday 5 October 2021 at 23:42:38 UTC+1, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

> You think they had watercraft that could handle Pacific storms?

They'd have hugged the coast, probably taking
many generations to move the 5,000 km south,
going to land any time storms seemed likely.

The major problem would be getting past the
ice-fields of the Bering Straits. Done first by
exploratory missions of fit young men in the
summer, before families moved across with
tents etc.