One reason why storing your data on the iCloud is NOT safe!
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg>

Bearing in mind how primitive Apple's systems are, I just noticed that when
it accepted my login and password, I was using a VPN privacy browser.

It could be Apple's systems are so freaking infantile that they locked me
out for that reason alone, after not having logged into the iCloud for four
years.

Bear in mind these things don't happen if you do _everything_ Apple tells
you to do (which includes allowing Apple to track everything you do via the
iCloud login) but I don't use the iPads only the primitive way Apple
requires.
<https://i.postimg.cc/sfZ0XP71/osupdate02.jpg> Deleting Siri stuff works
<https://i.postimg.cc/nLjqk2HD/osupdate03.jpg> Even iOS updates work
<https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg> iOS 13.5 to iOS 15.3.1
<https://i.postimg.cc/bJPKDSZ1/osupdate04.jpg> *Apple locks you out!*

I logged in _once_ (about four years ago) when the iPads were purchased.
And then about two years ago Apple started nagging me to log in again.
I've been dismissing that idiotic nag screen for two years.
Finally, I tried logging in (using a privacy browser)...

And Apple locked me out forever on one iPad:
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg> Apple _disables_ your acct!
On the other iPad (different iCloud account) it's still kind'of working.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8k3GQyj4/appleid09.jpg>

But all my iCloud data?
Poof.
Gone!
*Your AppleID has been locked for security reasons.*
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg>
--
The point is that storing your data on the iCloud is NOT safe!
<https://i.postimg.cc/sfZ0XP71/osupdate02.jpg> Deleting Siri stuff works
<https://i.postimg.cc/nLjqk2HD/osupdate03.jpg> Even iOS updates work
<https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg> iOS 13.5 to iOS 15.3.1
<https://i.postimg.cc/bJPKDSZ1/osupdate04.jpg> Can't download an app twice
<>
<https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg> Apple _forces_ a log in!
<https://i.postimg.cc/g008YhxP/appleid02.jpg> Apple _forces_ a lock out!
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg> Apple _disables_ your acct!
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg> Apple won't let you back in!
<>
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZR5mZ287/appleid07.jpg> Apple fails App Store test
<https://i.postimg.cc/TwN6P0QR/appleid08.jpg> Only Apple requires a login
<https://i.postimg.cc/8k3GQyj4/appleid09.jpg> Apple tracks your activity
<https://i.postimg.cc/hhFNJ5mq/appleid010.jpg> Apps become non functional
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrFHSvby/appleid11.jpg> Apple _forces_ extra logins!
<https://i.postimg.cc/Y9kkj19v/appleid12.jpg> Apple tracking server login

nospam wrote:

>> The Apple iOS devices ask only once for permission when you plug into Linux,
>> but they ask _every single time_ (AFAICT) when you plug them into Windows.
>
> they do not.

And yet, they do.
<https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg>

> after a trust ticket is issued, there is no longer a need to ask again.

What happens if, in the last four years, Apple _changed_ iCloud TOCs?

Must you agree to them manually?
Maybe that's why they are forcing another login after the first one?
> you are doing something unusual to prevent that from working properly.
> no surprise there.

What is different is I never log into the iCloud after the 1st time.

And even then, only because I'm forced to create an iCloud account.
(Otherwise you can't download any apps off the App Store.)

Note that modern use model works fine for Android.
<https://i.postimg.cc/NG5pHyBx/aurora10.jpg>
You still have complete access to all Google Play Store apps.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zBjX5kJ/aurora09.jpg>

It's only the iCloud that I know of that _forces_ a periodic login.

If you don't do that (I haven't logged into iCloud for years)...
Then Apple simply unilaterally locks you out forever.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg> Apple won't let you back in!
--
All your iCloud data? Poof. Gone.

On 18/02/2022 12:33 pm, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>>> The Apple iOS devices ask only once for permission when you plug into
>>> Linux, but they ask _every single time_ (AFAICT) when you plug them
>>> into Windows.
>>
>> they do not.
>
> And yet, they do.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg>
>
>

Maybe it's really iQloud ?!!!

geoff

On 17/02/2022 22:56, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> One reason why storing your data on the iCloud is NOT safe!
> <https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg>
>
> Bearing in mind how primitive Apple's systems are, I just noticed that
> when it accepted my login and password, I was using a VPN privacy browser.
>
> It could be Apple's systems are so freaking infantile that they locked
> me out for that reason alone, after not having logged into the iCloud
> for four years.
>
> Bear in mind these things don't happen if you do _everything_ Apple
> tells you to do (which includes allowing Apple to track everything you
> do via the iCloud login) but I don't use the iPads only the primitive
> way Apple requires. <https://i.postimg.cc/sfZ0XP71/osupdate02.jpg>
> Deleting Siri stuff works
> <https://i.postimg.cc/nLjqk2HD/osupdate03.jpg> Even iOS updates work
> <https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg> iOS 13.5 to iOS 15.3.1
> <https://i.postimg.cc/bJPKDSZ1/osupdate04.jpg> *Apple locks you out!*
>
> I logged in _once_ (about four years ago) when the iPads were purchased.
> And then about two years ago Apple started nagging me to log in again.
> I've been dismissing that idiotic nag screen for two years.
> Finally, I tried logging in (using a privacy browser)...
> And Apple locked me out forever on one iPad:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg> Apple _disables_ your acct!
> On the other iPad (different iCloud account) it's still kind'of working.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/8k3GQyj4/appleid09.jpg>
>
> But all my iCloud data?
> Poof.
> Gone!
>  *Your AppleID has been locked for security reasons.*
> <https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg>

You sound rather confused, Andy.

I am totally confident in the security arrangements of Apple.

You can reset your 'disabled' iPad to factory conditions and start over.
Instructions here:- https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201274

You should be using the same AppleID and Password for ALL your Apple
devices.

Using a VPN should make no difference to your ability to sign in. If you
are having difficulty, start here:-

https://iforgot.apple.com/password/verify/appleid?r=1&language=GB-EN

I hope this helps.

--
Kind regards,
David

On 17/02/2022 23:38, geoff wrote:
> On 18/02/2022 12:33 pm, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> nospam wrote:
>>
>>>> The Apple iOS devices ask only once for permission when you plug
>>>> into Linux, but they ask _every single time_ (AFAICT) when you plug
>>>> them into Windows.
>>>
>>> they do not.
>>
>> And yet, they do.
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg>
>>
>>
>
> Maybe it's really iQloud ?!!!

Hi geoff

I think he's not quite sure of what he's doing!

Can you see/read the post I've made in this group to help him?

TIA

nospam wrote:

> only because *you* fucked up.

How?

Was I holding both iPads wrong?

Note: Each iOS device has its own account (because it's forced on us).

>> All you have to do is _not_ log into the iCloud, & poof, your data is gone.
>
> false.

My only point was that data stored on the iCloud is inherently *unsafe*.
> however, the more interesting question why do you care what's there?

See below where Apple forces me to care what's on the iCloud.
<https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg>

Apple stores my data on the iCloud.
Not me.

Otherwise I would have not dismissed that prompt ten times a day for the
past two years (where you'd think the primitive iOS could add the concept
of "skip" to their kindergarten use model).
<https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg>
> if you haven't logged into icloud for several years (so you say), you
> obviously have no use for anything that might be stored there (and it's
> all there should you ever figure out how).

Like I said, I don't store anything I care about on the iCloud.
However, Apple does.
Unilaterally.

You forget I care to load software twice - which is _stuck_ on the iCloud.
<https://i.postimg.cc/bJPKDSZ1/osupdate04.jpg>
a. Apple lets me download the software & install it
b. But Apple _insists_ I get it back from the iCloud
c. And yet, Apple won't let me log into the iCloud to get it.

The fact is that your data is inherently *unsafe* on the iCloud.
It just is.

> you do realize that to get at your data, you have to log in, right?
>
> maybe not.

Tell me how to download this app which I didn't put in the iCloud.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZR5mZ287/appleid07.jpg>

Apple put that app in the iCloud.
Not me.

>>> unfortunately for you, that won't work because you used a disposable
>>> email and have no idea what the password is either.
>>
>> I know exactly what the login and passwords are because it _accepted_ them.
>
> then you will have no problem entering both of them again.

Look again.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg> Apple won't let you back in!

The fact you make excuses for Apple every second of the day is clear.
The fact is, it's downright _dangerous_ to store anything in Apple's iCloud.

Apple doesn't like something (like, oh, maybe your VPN browser?)
Poof.
All your data?
Gone!

> of course, that contradicts your earlier statements that you have no
> idea what they are because according to you, it was a disposable email
> and a random password you didn't think to save.

I have no idea what the email address is, nospam.
Because it was fabricated (for privacy reasons, nospam).

On Android, you don't need a login to the mothership, nospam.
You don't need it on Windows 10 either, nospam.
And you can still populate both with all the apps you would want.

But you must create a tracking login on the iOS device nospam.
Just to put apps on that iOS device.

You know this so stop playing silly kindergarten games.
The fact remains it's _dangerous_ to store _anything_ on the iCloud.

>> Then, the instant after accepting them, it locked me out (instantly).
>
> no it didn't.
>
> try once more, this time using the correct login/pw, and your self-made
> problem will instantly vanish.

Those _are_ the correct logins and passwords, nospam.
You didn't look at the screenshots.
Look.

Here they are again.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg> Apple won't let you back in!

They're NOT saying the logins/passwords are wrong.
They're saying they're right.

They perhaps just don't like my IP address (it's a VPN ID from Russia).
But why should I have to log in without VPN to anything, nospam?

Especially to Apple's iCloud tracking servers? (Of all things!)

The fact is Apple locked me out (maybe because they're VPN browsers).
The fact remains it's _dangerous_ to store anything on the iCloud, nospam.

The fact you _hate_ that fact doesn't change the fact that it's a fact.

>>
>> Shitty web site doesn't even explain why.
>
> shitty usenet will explain: you fucked up.

I can predict years in advance that iKooks claim all Apple snafus are the
users' fault (as in "you're holding it wrong").

The fact remains it's _dangerous_ to store anything on the iCloud, nospam.
If Apple doesn't like the IP address you logged in from...
Poof.
All your data?

Gone!

On 17/02/2022 23:59, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>> only because *you* fucked up.
>
> How?
>
> Was I holding both iPads wrong?
> Note: Each iOS device has its own account (because it's forced on us).
>
>>> All you have to do is _not_ log into the iCloud, & poof, your data is
>>> gone.
>>
>> false.
>
> My only point was that data stored on the iCloud is inherently *unsafe*.
>
>> however, the more interesting question why do you care what's there?
>
> See below where Apple forces me to care what's on the iCloud.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg>
>
> Apple stores my data on the iCloud. Not me.
>
> Otherwise I would have not dismissed that prompt ten times a day for the
> past two years (where you'd think the primitive iOS could add the concept
> of "skip" to their kindergarten use model).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg>
>
>> if you haven't logged into icloud for several years (so you say), you
>> obviously have no use for anything that might be stored there (and it's
>> all there should you ever figure out how).
>
> Like I said, I don't store anything I care about on the iCloud.
> However, Apple does.
> Unilaterally.
>
> You forget I care to load software twice - which is _stuck_ on the iCloud.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/bJPKDSZ1/osupdate04.jpg>
> a. Apple lets me download the software & install it
> b. But Apple _insists_ I get it back from the iCloud
> c. And yet, Apple won't let me log into the iCloud to get it.
>
> The fact is that your data is inherently *unsafe* on the iCloud. It just
> is.
>
>> you do realize that to get at your data, you have to log in, right?
>>
>> maybe not.
>
> Tell me how to download this app which I didn't put in the iCloud.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/ZR5mZ287/appleid07.jpg>
>
> Apple put that app in the iCloud.
> Not me.
>
>>>> unfortunately for you, that won't work because you used a disposable
>>>> email and have no idea what the password is either.
>>>
>>> I know exactly what the login and passwords are because it _accepted_
>>> them.
>>
>> then you will have no problem entering both of them again.
>
> Look again.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!
> <https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg> Apple won't let you back in!
>
> The fact you make excuses for Apple every second of the day is clear.
> The fact is, it's downright _dangerous_ to store anything in Apple's
> iCloud.
>
> Apple doesn't like something (like, oh, maybe your VPN browser?)
> Poof.
> All your data?
> Gone!
>
>> of course, that contradicts your earlier statements that you have no
>> idea what they are because according to you, it was a disposable email
>> and a random password you didn't think to save.
>
> I have no idea what the email address is, nospam.
> Because it was fabricated (for privacy reasons, nospam).
>
> On Android, you don't need a login to the mothership, nospam.
> You don't need it on Windows 10 either, nospam.
> And you can still populate both with all the apps you would want.
>
> But you must create a tracking login on the iOS device nospam.
> Just to put apps on that iOS device.
>
> You know this so stop playing silly kindergarten games.
> The fact remains it's _dangerous_ to store _anything_ on the iCloud.
>
>>> Then, the instant after accepting them, it locked me out (instantly).
>>
>> no it didn't.
>>
>> try once more, this time using the correct login/pw, and your self-made
>> problem will instantly vanish.
>
> Those _are_ the correct logins and passwords, nospam.
> You didn't look at the screenshots.
> Look.
>
> Here they are again.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!
> <https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg> Apple won't let you back in!
>
> They're NOT saying the logins/passwords are wrong.
> They're saying they're right.
>
> They perhaps just don't like my IP address (it's a VPN ID from Russia).
> But why should I have to log in without VPN to anything, nospam?
>
> Especially to Apple's iCloud tracking servers? (Of all things!)
>
> The fact is Apple locked me out (maybe because they're VPN browsers).
> The fact remains it's _dangerous_ to store anything on the iCloud, nospam.
>
> The fact you _hate_ that fact doesn't change the fact that it's a fact.
>
>>>
>>> Shitty web site doesn't even explain why.
>>
>> shitty usenet will explain: you fucked up.
>
> I can predict years in advance that iKooks claim all Apple snafus are the
> users' fault (as in "you're holding it wrong").
>
> The fact remains it's _dangerous_ to store anything on the iCloud, nospam.
> If Apple doesn't like the IP address you logged in from...
> Poof.
> All your data?
>
> Gone!

Your talking bollocks, Andy.

nospam is correct.

--
David

David Brooks wrote:

> Can you see/read the post I've made in this group to help him?

The point is that to store your data on the iCloud is to risk losing it!

1. Each of my three iPads has its own iCloud login.
I know the login. I know the password. Apple accepts both of them.
I do not know the email address (it was bogus).
Nor do I remember the bogus contact information (privacy stuff).
I only have the iCloud login because Apple forces you to have it.
2. The iCloud login is required to download apps from the App Store.
(and downloading the apps works fine, but only the first time)
3. One iPad is used by my wife who uses a different use model than I.
(so everything else here is about my two iPads)
4. Her use model is in line with how Apple forces users to do things.
5. My use model is to log in once (because I have to) & never again.
6. About two years ago, Apple nagged me to log in again.
7. Maybe because they changed TOCs, maybe not. Apple doesn't say why.
8. So for two years, on both iPads, I've been dismissing that prompt.
9. Happens every day, all day, ten, twenty, thirty times a day.
10. You'd think Apple developers would have heard of a "remember" box.
11. A while ago, on both iPads, Apple summarily locked me out.
12. The two iPads are on different iOS versions (I never update iOS!)
13. But the result is the same on both iPads.
14. On the one I use most, I just updated from iOS 13.5 to iOS 15.3.1
15. I can do that easily, and I can download & install software (once!)
16. But it _still_ is forcing me to log into the iCloud
17. And, when I tried on the older iPad, Apple _disabled_ my iPad!
18. Now I have one iPad completely worthless due solely to Apple tricks.
19. And the other puts stuff on the iCloud but it will never get it off.
20. All because of the primitive restrictive use model Apple enforces.

Apple allows users to put stuff on the iCloud without having to log back in.
But Apple forces users to log in to the iCloud to get your stuff back.
I logged in successfully on the web using VPN, and it accepted the login.
And then, instantly, it locked me out.

Permanently.
No quarter given.

Want screenshots?
<https://i.postimg.cc/sfZ0XP71/osupdate02.jpg> Deleting Siri stuff works
<https://i.postimg.cc/nLjqk2HD/osupdate03.jpg> Even iOS updates work
<https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg> iOS 13.5 to iOS 15.3.1
<https://i.postimg.cc/bJPKDSZ1/osupdate04.jpg> Can't download an app twice
<>
<https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg> Apple _forces_ a log in!
<https://i.postimg.cc/g008YhxP/appleid02.jpg> Apple _forces_ a lock out!
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg> Apple _disables_ your acct!
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg> Apple won't let you back in!
<>
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZR5mZ287/appleid07.jpg> Apple fails App Store test
<https://i.postimg.cc/TwN6P0QR/appleid08.jpg> Only Apple requires a login
<https://i.postimg.cc/8k3GQyj4/appleid09.jpg> Apple tracks your activity
<https://i.postimg.cc/hhFNJ5mq/appleid010.jpg> Apps become non functional
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrFHSvby/appleid11.jpg> Apple _forces_ extra logins!
<https://i.postimg.cc/Y9kkj19v/appleid12.jpg> Apple tracking server login

The point is that to store your data on the iCloud is to _lose_ all of it.
If you know how to get my stuff back, I'd love to know.

This problem was on the Apple newsgroups and they have no clue how to solve
it even as people like nospam always claim it's the users' fault when Apple
product fail miserably due to poor design (e.g., "You're holding it wrong").

David Brooks wrote:

> Your talking bollocks, Andy.

Did you look at the screenshots?
They prove everything I say is correct.

Maybe you know something that I don't know, but if you do, let me know.
As my warning to everyone else is that your data is NOT safe on the iCloud.

I've noticed iKooks always blame the victim for poor Apple designs.
"You're holding it wrong"

> nospam is correct.

You do know that nospam defends Apple to the death, no matter what?
It's not always a case of "You're holding it wrong" when things don't work.
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg>

Besides, explain the facts, like the fact I can install any app I want.
I just can't get it back. <https://i.postimg.cc/bJPKDSZ1/osupdate04.jpg>

Why not?

Explain why I can download & install the latest iOS update if I want to.
<https://i.postimg.cc/nLjqk2HD/osupdate03.jpg>

And yet I can't even use iMessage or FaceTime.
<https://i.postimg.cc/hhFNJ5mq/appleid010.jpg>

Explain why I can easily delete my Siri recordings (due to the recent bug).
<https://i.postimg.cc/sfZ0XP71/osupdate02.jpg>

And yet, Apple _still_ requires a periodic iCloud login no matter what.
<https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg>

It's not all that important to me that the iCloud is unsafe.
But for others, they should know what Apple does with the iCloud.

One false move.
Poof.
All your data is toast.

Be advised.
This has been on the Apple ng's for weeks and nobody has a solution.

Apple unilaterally destroyed one iPad already.
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg>

And the other is unilaterally completely locked out of the iCloud account.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg>

Maybe you know something that I don't know, but if you do, let me know.
As my warning to everyone else is that your data is NOT safe on the iCloud.

In article <sumqds$piu$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> > Your talking bollocks, Andy.
>
> Did you look at the screenshots?
> They prove everything I say is correct.

nope. what they prove is that you have no idea what you're doing.

> Maybe you know something that I don't know

many somethings. many many many somethings.

> , but if you do, let me know.

many have tried. you're not interested in learning.

nospam wrote:

> nope. what they prove is that you have no idea what you're doing.

The PSA warning remains apropos, which is the point of this thread.
*To use the iCloud is to risk losing all your data*

And yet, _you_ can't explain them either.

I get it you have no education to speak of nospam. I'm sorry for you.
I really am.

Not everyone has the intelligence, time, or money to get educated.

But you need to stop claiming all facts are wrong simply because you hate
them.

>> Maybe you know something that I don't know
>
> many somethings. many many many somethings.

Then tell me why:
a. I can delete Siri, install in iOS version, & install apps
b. But I can't re-install an app nor use iMessage or FaceTime

Where I went to school and where I worked in the Silicon Valley,
you can't tell every customer who has a problem that they're holding it
wrong.

You just can't.
>> , but if you do, let me know.
>
> many have tried. you're not interested in learning.

Again, I understand you have no education nospam.
You have absolutely zero technical work experience also.

Where I went to school and where I worked in the Silicon Valley,
you can't tell every customer that the blank piece of paper you keep handing
them has the answers on it.

You just can't.

The fact remains you have no clue how to solve this problem.
And that's OK.

Just stop pretending that you do, that's all.
I don't need my iPads anyway - they're just toys.

But the warning remains apropos, which is the point of this thread.
*To use the iCloud is to risk losing all your data*
--
(That's what the lemon-juice bankrobber tried with the disappearing ink.)

These iKooks always blame the users for all the things Apple designed wrong.

As proof that nospam doesn't know anything about iOS, even the basics,
notice that you need to have iTunes installed on Windows in order to _not_
have to hit the TRUST popup every single time you connect an iPad.
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202778>

Even though nospam pretends to know iOS (he doesn't), what is sadistic of
him is he sends innocent people on fruitless wild goose chases by
_pretending_ to know something about iOS (when he knows less than I do).

Having never in my life ever met someone as unprepossessing as is nospam, I
am dismayed that purposefully unhelpful people like he is, actually exist.

This is actually how Apple _designed_ iOS to work, shockingly enough...
9:35PM you connect, you trust, you use it and disconnect
<https://i.postimg.cc/hvCnqdj4/trust01.jpg>
9:36PM you connect just a moment later - and you have to do it all over!
<https://i.postimg.cc/qMzV3gqn/trust02.jpg>

That's how idiotically Apple designs things when it comes to cross platform.
And yet, nospam constantly tells us "you're holding it wrong".

These iKooks always blame the users for all the things Apple designed wrong.

On 18/02/2022 04:22, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> These iKooks always blame the users for all the things Apple designed
> wrong.
>
> As proof that nospam doesn't know anything about iOS, even the basics,
> notice that you need to have iTunes installed on Windows in order to _not_
> have to hit the TRUST popup every single time you connect an iPad.
> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202778>
>
> Even though nospam pretends to know iOS (he doesn't), what is sadistic of
> him is he sends innocent people on fruitless wild goose chases by
> _pretending_ to know something about iOS (when he knows less than I do).
>
> Having never in my life ever met someone as unprepossessing as is nospam, I
> am dismayed that purposefully unhelpful people like he is, actually exist.
>
> This is actually how Apple _designed_ iOS to work, shockingly enough...
> 9:35PM you connect, you trust, you use it and disconnect
> <https://i.postimg.cc/hvCnqdj4/trust01.jpg>
> 9:36PM you connect just a moment later - and you have to do it all over!
> <https://i.postimg.cc/qMzV3gqn/trust02.jpg>
>
> That's how idiotically Apple designs things when it comes to cross
> platform.
> And yet, nospam constantly tells us "you're holding it wrong".
>
> These iKooks always blame the users for all the things Apple designed
> wrong.

Hi Andy

May I respectfully request that if you really want help that you come
over to my (commandeered!) usenet group so as not be a bother to the
folk here in rec.phot.digital ?

I'm not a techie but I have been to the UOL and can, and do, use most of
Apple's products. I've also used most of Microsoft's operating systems
since Windows 3.1 and dabble a bit with Linux too.

You are obviously pretty skilled with using Windows and are certainly no
fool. I'll be delighted to assist wherever I can.

I've set the follow-up to this post to alt.computer.workshop and I
really do hope you will respond.

--
With kind regards,
David

On 18/02/2022 02:09, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>> nope. what they prove is that you have no idea what you're doing.
>
> The PSA warning remains apropos, which is the point of this thread.
> *To use the iCloud is to risk losing all your data*
>
> And yet, _you_ can't explain them either.
>
> I get it you have no education to speak of nospam. I'm sorry for you.
> I really am.
> Not everyone has the intelligence, time, or money to get educated.
>
> But you need to stop claiming all facts are wrong simply because you hate
> them.
>
>>> Maybe you know something that I don't know
>>
>> many somethings. many many many somethings.
>
> Then tell me why:
> a. I can delete Siri, install in iOS version, & install apps
> b. But I can't re-install an app nor use iMessage or FaceTime
>
> Where I went to school and where I worked in the Silicon Valley, you
> can't tell every customer who has a problem that they're holding it
> wrong.
>
> You just can't.
>
>>> , but if you do, let me know.
>>
>> many have tried. you're not interested in learning.
>
> Again, I understand you have no education nospam.
> You have absolutely zero technical work experience also.
>
> Where I went to school and where I worked in the Silicon Valley, you
> can't tell every customer that the blank piece of paper you keep handing
> them has the answers on it.
> You just can't.
>
> The fact remains you have no clue how to solve this problem.
> And that's OK.
>
> Just stop pretending that you do, that's all.
> I don't need my iPads anyway - they're just toys.
>
> But the warning remains apropos, which is the point of this thread.
> *To use the iCloud is to risk losing all your data*

'nospam' is a VERY rude individual who should know better at his age.

It makes me sad when I know that he could help you, but he won't. :-(

David Brooks wrote:

> It makes me sad when I know that he could help you, but he won't

You only need to know two things about nospam to predict his every response.
1. nospam has no education & no technical experience in customer support
2. nospam will always staunchly defend anything Apple does, to the death
(even the things Apple does that they later apologize for doing)

While I never claim to know iOS well, I use iOS outside the walled garden.
Using iOS outside the walled garden is, to nospam, the users own fault.
"You're holding it wrong"

The fact remains a fact:
a. To put your data on the iCloud is to risk losing it all. Poof. Gone!
b. To associate iOS with an account is to risk Apple destroying that device!

Want proof?
1. Apple "ID Verification" prompts come up ten, twenty or more times a day.
<https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg>
2. Apple "Sign-in to iCloud" prompts come up a dozen or more times a day.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Y9kkj19v/appleid12.jpg>
3. Apple won't let you sign in even with the _correct_ login & password.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg>
4. The Apple web site is so poorly designed it doesn't even tell you why.
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg>
5. Eventually, as it did with one of my iPads already, Apple destroys it.
<https://i.postimg.cc/g008YhxP/appleid02.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg>
6. On my 2nd iPad, the Apple apps stop working (but everything else works!)
<https://i.postimg.cc/hhFNJ5mq/appleid010.jpg>
7. Every single day, many times a day, you're confronted with tracking crap
such as this "Some account services require you to sign in again"
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrFHSvby/appleid11.jpg>
8. Interestingly, you can update your iOS (which I almost never do) as shown
here where I updated this week from iOS 13 to iOS 15 (and it let me).
<https://i.postimg.cc/nLjqk2HD/osupdate03.jpg>
9. And you can wipe out your Siri recordings (due to the recent zero-day).
<https://i.postimg.cc/sfZ0XP71/osupdate02.jpg>
10. Yet Apple tracking servers still require "Apple ID Verification"
<https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg>
11. And, you can install an app, but if you delete it, you can't re-install.
<https://i.postimg.cc/bJPKDSZ1/osupdate04.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZR5mZ287/appleid07.jpg>
12. In the end, if you attempt that forced validation on VPN, Apple
unilaterally destroys your investment by locking you out of it forever!
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg>
13. All because Apple tracking servers _require_ periodic ID verification.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8k3GQyj4/appleid09.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg>

BTW, almost _everything_ is poorly designed at Apple, even the trust prompt.
<https://i.postimg.cc/hvCnqdj4/trust01.jpg> 9:35PM PC trust established
<https://i.postimg.cc/qMzV3gqn/trust02.jpg> 9:36PM PC trust required again!

Notice Apple never bothers to tell you that the prompt will come up forever,
every single time you connect to a PC that doesn't have iTunes installed!
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202778>

a. This happens if you don't log into Apple tracking servers periodically.
b. Or because you used VPN in the Apple-tracking "ID Verification" step.)
c. Or because you didn't install the iTunes abomination on Windows

Be advised.
a. To put your data on the iCloud is to risk losing it all. Poof. Gone!
b. To associate iOS with an account is to risk Apple destroying that device!

On 18/02/2022 18:13, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> David Brooks wrote:
>
>> It makes me sad when I know that he could help you, but he won't
>
> You only need to know two things about nospam to predict his every
> response.
> 1. nospam has no education & no technical experience in customer support
> 2. nospam will always staunchly defend anything Apple does, to the death
>   (even the things Apple does that they later apologize for doing)
>
> While I never claim to know iOS well, I use iOS outside the walled garden.
> Using iOS outside the walled garden is, to nospam, the users own fault.
> "You're holding it wrong"
>
> The fact remains a fact:
> a. To put your data on the iCloud is to risk losing it all. Poof. Gone!
> b. To associate iOS with an account is to risk Apple destroying that
> device!
>
> Want proof?
> 1. Apple "ID Verification" prompts come up ten, twenty or more times a day.
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg>
> 2. Apple "Sign-in to iCloud" prompts come up a dozen or more times a day.
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/Y9kkj19v/appleid12.jpg>
> 3. Apple won't let you sign in even with the _correct_ login & password.
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg>
> 4. The Apple web site is so poorly designed it doesn't even tell you why.
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg>
> 5. Eventually, as it did with one of my iPads already, Apple destroys it.
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/g008YhxP/appleid02.jpg>
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg>
> 6. On my 2nd iPad, the Apple apps stop working (but everything else works!)
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/hhFNJ5mq/appleid010.jpg>
> 7. Every single day, many times a day, you're confronted with tracking
> crap   such as this "Some account services require you to sign in again"
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/nrFHSvby/appleid11.jpg>
> 8. Interestingly, you can update your iOS (which I almost never do) as
> shown
>   here where I updated this week from iOS 13 to iOS 15 (and it let me).
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/nLjqk2HD/osupdate03.jpg>
> 9. And you can wipe out your Siri recordings (due to the recent zero-day).
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/sfZ0XP71/osupdate02.jpg>
> 10. Yet Apple tracking servers still require "Apple ID Verification"
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg>
> 11. And, you can install an app, but if you delete it, you can't
> re-install.
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/bJPKDSZ1/osupdate04.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/ZR5mZ287/appleid07.jpg>
> 12. In the end, if you attempt that forced validation on VPN, Apple
> unilaterally destroys your investment by locking you out of it forever!
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg>
> 13. All because Apple tracking servers _require_ periodic ID verification.
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/8k3GQyj4/appleid09.jpg>
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg>
>
> BTW, almost _everything_ is poorly designed at Apple, even the trust
> prompt.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/hvCnqdj4/trust01.jpg> 9:35PM PC trust established
> <https://i.postimg.cc/qMzV3gqn/trust02.jpg> 9:36PM PC trust required again!
>
> Notice Apple never bothers to tell you that the prompt will come up
> forever,
> every single time you connect to a PC that doesn't have iTunes installed!
> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202778>
>
> a. This happens if you don't log into Apple tracking servers periodically.
> b. Or because you used VPN in the Apple-tracking "ID Verification" step.)
> c. Or because you didn't install the iTunes abomination on Windows
>
> Be advised.
> a. To put your data on the iCloud is to risk losing it all. Poof. Gone!
> b. To associate iOS with an account is to risk Apple destroying that
> device!

Perhaps you can teach ME how to use iOS on a Windows computer?

I pay Apple a monthly fee for storing data in 'The Cloud' and can report
that I have NEVER lost any data from The Cloud in over 12 years.

Kind regards,

David
--
Follow-up set to ACW

David Brooks wrote:

> I pay Apple a monthly fee for storing data in 'The Cloud' and can report
> that I have NEVER lost any data from The Cloud in over 12 years.

Apparently you didn't understand a word I typed.
I was _teaching_ you what Apple does when you _leave_ the walled garden.

You didn't leave the walled garden, silly.

1. So Apple didn't destroy your device like Apple did to me as proved here:
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg>
2. And so Apple didn't lock you out of the iCloud like it did to me here:
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg>

BTW, I'm not complaining, as I'm always learning and always teaching people.
(I use my iOS devices as tools mostly to learn how iOS _actually_ works.)

I learn what Apple says, is almost always _not_ what Apple actually does.
And, of course, whatever the iKooks say, is almost always wrong too.

Most iOS users are as dumb as a brick (which you seem to be also).
You can be forgiven though, as they & you have no education to speak of.

I'm a teacher.

The teaching lesson for everyone is that if you *leave the walled garden*...
a. Apple will unilaterally _destroy_ your hardware investment, and,
b. Apple will unilaterally _destroy_ your precious iCloud data. Poof! Gone.

For you:
If you _stay_ inside the walled garden, Apple treats you just fine.