On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 3:23:51 AM UTC-5, Skybuck Flying wrote:
> SEE BELOW FOR LINKS TO PICTURES, ILLUSTRATING THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION.
>
> A POSSIBLE IMPROVEMENT TO THE QWERTY KEYBOARD LAYOUT:
>
> 1. THE ARROW KEYS ARE PLACED TO LOW, THIS CAN CAUSE RSI IN THE RIGHT HAND, THIS OCCURENCE IS VERY RARE, BUT IT DID HAPPEN DURING THE PLAY OF QUAKE 1 AND USING THE ARROWS TO GO FORWARD AND TURN LEFT AND RIGHT AND THE LEFT SHIFT KEY USING THE LEFT HAND TO RUN.
>
> AFTER SIX HOURS OF PLAY, A TERMINATOR HAND HAPPENED, THE ARM MUSSLES WOULD NOT MOVE SMOOTHLY ANYMORE.
>
> NOWADAYS EVERYBODY OFCOURSE PLAYS WITH AWSD KEYS WITH LEFT HAND AND THE MOUSE IN RIGHT HAND, SO THAT BOTH HANDS CAN REST ON THE TABLE, THE AWSD KEYS ARE HIGHER ON THE KEYBOARD AND DO NOT HAVE THE SAME ISSUE BECAUSE OF THIS.
>
> 2. THERE IS SOME SPACING BETWEEN THE ARROW KEYS AND THE PAGE UP AND PAGE DOWN KEYS, I ALSO SUGGEST TO MOVE THE PRINT SCREEN, SCROL LOCK AND PAUSE/BREAK KEYS TO THE RIGHT ABOVE THE NUMPAD TO MAKE ROOM FOR THE PAGE UP AND PAGE DOWNS KEYS AND MOVE THEM UPWARDS, ALSO THE DELETE, INSERT KEYS, ETC, BASICALLY THOSE 6 KEYS SHOULD BE MOVED UP.
>
> 3. MY SUGGESTION IS TO PLACE/MOVE THE ARROW KEYS EVEN HIGHER THAN THE AWSD KEYS, SO THAT THERE IS PLENTY OF ROOM FOR THE RIGHT HAND TO REST ON THE TABLE/KEYBOARD.
>
> FINALLY THIS SUGGESTED IMPROVEMENT TO THE QWERTY KEYBOARD LAYOUT COULD BENEFIT PROGRAMMERS AT MICROSOFT, GOOGLE, APPLE AND MIGHT LEAD TO SLIGHTLY LESS FATIGUE IN THE RIGHT HAND FINGERS AND ARM MUSSLES, THOUGH SUCH FATIGUE/CRAMP IS RARE AND ONLY HAPPENS AFTER VERY LONG PROGRAMMING SESSIONS, THAT'S TRUE.
>
> HOWEVER MAYBE IN THE FUTURE, NEW APPLICATIONS MIGHT REQUIRE INTENSIVELY USAGE OF THE ARROW KEYS AND THEN IT COULD BE NICE TO HAVE THIS IMPROVEMENT, MAYBE ALSO FOR CAD/CAM WORK, BUT I HAVE NO PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE WITH
> AUTODESK AND SUCH.
>
> FINALLY THIS SUGGESTED IMPROVEMENT SHOULD BE TRIED TO SEE IF IT DOES NOT INTERFER WITH THE OTHER KEYS, NO ACCIDENTLY PRESSED OF OTHER KEYS AND JUST TO SEE IF PEOPLE LIKE IT OR NOT.
>
> ONE MORE THING TO PAY ATTENTION TO AND TEST IS THE NEW POSITION OF THE PAGE UP AND PAGE DOWN KEYS WHICH ARE NOW A LITTLE BIT HIGHER. I DON'T THINK THIS NEW POSITION WILL BE WORSE OR ANNOYING, BUT SHOULD BE TESTED ANYWAY.
>
> A SCIENCETIFIC APPROACH COULD BE TAKEN BY OBSERVING MICROSOFT PROGRAMMERS AND GOOGLE PROGRAMMERS TO SEE WHICH KEYS TO PRESS THE MOST:
> PAGE UP/PAGE DOWN OR THE ARROW KEYS.
>
> PLUS SOME CALCULATIONS COULD BE MADE TO SEE HOW MUCH ENERGY IS SAVED OR USED BY MOVING THE HANDS AND ALSO HOLDING THE HAND UP IN THE AIR VERSUS RESTING IT ON THE KEYBOARD.
>
> MOST LIKELY THIS NEW QWERTY KEYBOARD LAYOUT WILL BE MUCH MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT BECAUSE OF THE RESTING HAND AND ALSO LESS HAND MOVEMENT BECAUSE OF THE ARROW KEYS BEING HIGHER AND THEREFORE CLOSER IN HEIGHT TO THE REST OF THE KEYS ON THE KEYBOARD, AT THE SLIGHTLY EXPENSIVE OF HAVING TO REACH SLIGHTLY HIGHER FOR THE PAGE UP AND PAGE DOWN KEYS.
>
> ANOTHER BIG BENEFIT OF THIS IMPROVEMENT IS THAT THE KEYS STILL STAY MOSTLY WHERE PEOPLE EXPECT THEM TO BE... I THINK PEOPLE WILL ACTUALLY LIKE THE NEW POSITION OF THE ARROWS KEYS, IT WILL PREVENT THEM FROM HAVING TO MOVE THE RIGHT HAND DOWN, INSTEAD THEY CAN KEEP THE RIGHT HAND AT THE SAME HEIGHT AS THE LEFT HAND AND THUS ALSO SAVING SOME ENERGY IN THE RIGHT HAND/ARM.
>
> FINALLY IF YOU WANT TO SEE A DRAWING/VIDEO OF MY PROPOSED IMPROVEMENT TO THE QWERTY KEYBOARD LAYOUT, SEE THIS YOUTUBE VIDEO:
>
> https://youtu.be/U4GAWe7Rvdg
>
> OR CHECK MY WEBDRIVE FOR SCREENSHOTS:
>
> STATE THE PROBLEM:
>
> http://www.skybuck.org/Analysis/QWERTYKeyboard/QUAKE%201%20RSI%20EXAMPLE.png
>
> OFFER A SOLUTION:
>
> http://www.skybuck.org/Analysis/QWERTYKeyboard/A%20POSSIBLE%20IMPROVEMENT%20TO%20THE%20QWERTY%20KEYBOARD.png
>
> WHY AWSD DOES NOT HAVE SAME PROBLEM:
>
> http://www.skybuck.org/Analysis/QWERTYKeyboard/RIGHT%20HAND%20CANT%20REST%20WELL.png
>
> THIS IS MY GIFT TO HUMANITY AFTER 30+ YEARS OF USING PERSONAL COMPUTERS AND QWERTY KEYBOARD AND LAPTOPS AND YADADADADADADA.
>
> I HOPE YOU APPRECIATE IT, I HOPE YOU TAKE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE SERIOUSLY AND I ACTUALLY HOPE YOU TRY IT OUT AND IMPROVEEEEEEE ON THE QWERTY KEYBOARD LAYOUT....
>
> CAUSE GOD KNOWS IT CAN DO BETTERRRRRRR.....
>
> BYE FOR NOW,
> SKYBUCK FLYING.

You aren't supposed to rest your hands on anything while you type. Your hands should be a straight line from your lower arm, so the wrist is not bent.. The best keyboard I ever used in this regard was the MS Natural keyboard.. It was great! Although large. Not possible in a laptop.

I'm giving thought to getting a keyboard to use with the laptop. But then the screen would not be close enough to see, so I'd need a monitor. Then it gets a bit messy to set everything where I want it. The monitor needs to hang from the ceiling, but that's not so easy to do. It would actually be a 48 inch TV about six feet away. lol

--

Rick C.

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On a sunny day (Sun, 8 Jan 2023 00:42:52 -0800 (PST)) it happened Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
<f81029be-f1b5-4bbc-8af7-4eeea28693fdn@googlegroups.com>:

>On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 3:23:51 AM UTC-5, Skybuck Flying wrote:
>> SEE BELOW FOR LINKS TO PICTURES, ILLUSTRATING THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION.
>>
>> CAUSE GOD KNOWS IT CAN DO BETTERRRRRRR.....

>You aren't supposed to rest your hands on anything while you type. Your hands
>should be a straight line from your lower arm, so the wrist is not bent.
> The best keyboard I ever used in this regard was the MS Natural keyboard.
> It was great! Although large. Not possible in a laptop.
>
>I'm giving thought to getting a keyboard to use with the laptop. But then
>the screen would not be close enough to see, so I'd need a monitor. Then it
>gets a bit messy to set everything where I want it. The monitor needs to
>hang from the ceiling, but that's not so easy to do. It would actually be
>a 48 inch TV about six feet away. lol

I always use the mouse with the laptop.
The lettering on the keyboards is fading from intensive use...
Have 3 or more on the table at once:
http://panteltje.com/pub/4_keyboards_IXIMG_0913.JPG

This small one controls scripts on Raspberry Pi4
http://panteltje.com/pub/small_keyboard_IXIMG_0914.JPG
sort of an advanced remote, you can also type commands just like in a terminal.

I have a waterproof keyboard too somewhere, and voice control plus keyboard on the PC upstairs..
Saying 'show BBC1' does just that on the monitor.

I always rest my hands when typing on the laptop.

Just a question of getting used to an other interface...

On that mission to that planet when we were in zero grafitty if you did not hold on to
something, then pushing a key would make you float away.
Making the spacecraft rotate created just enough grafitty, so pushing the abort button worked,
so here again.

I seldummy make taipoos unless internteneded.

On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 4:24:16 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Sun, 8 Jan 2023 00:42:52 -0800 (PST)) it happened Ricky
> <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
> <f81029be-f1b5-4bbc...@googlegroups.com>:
> >On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 3:23:51 AM UTC-5, Skybuck Flying wrote:
> >> SEE BELOW FOR LINKS TO PICTURES, ILLUSTRATING THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION.
> >>
> >> CAUSE GOD KNOWS IT CAN DO BETTERRRRRRR.....
> >You aren't supposed to rest your hands on anything while you type. Your hands
> >should be a straight line from your lower arm, so the wrist is not bent.
> > The best keyboard I ever used in this regard was the MS Natural keyboard.
> > It was great! Although large. Not possible in a laptop.
> >
> >I'm giving thought to getting a keyboard to use with the laptop. But then
> >the screen would not be close enough to see, so I'd need a monitor. Then it
> >gets a bit messy to set everything where I want it. The monitor needs to
> >hang from the ceiling, but that's not so easy to do. It would actually be
> >a 48 inch TV about six feet away. lol
> I always use the mouse with the laptop.
> The lettering on the keyboards is fading from intensive use...
> Have 3 or more on the table at once:
> http://panteltje.com/pub/4_keyboards_IXIMG_0913.JPG

Yeah, I can't see well enough to work like that anymore. Must be nice.

> This small one controls scripts on Raspberry Pi4
> http://panteltje.com/pub/small_keyboard_IXIMG_0914.JPG
> sort of an advanced remote, you can also type commands just like in a terminal.
>
> I have a waterproof keyboard too somewhere, and voice control plus keyboard on the PC upstairs..
> Saying 'show BBC1' does just that on the monitor.
>
> I always rest my hands when typing on the laptop.
>
> Just a question of getting used to an other interface...

Repetitive motion injury is not a matter of "getting used to it". Once you get this injury, it may never go away. So it's much better to prevent it than to try to heal. Of course, you may not get it. Just like many people who smoke, do not die of lung cancer.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On a sunny day (Sun, 8 Jan 2023 02:29:18 -0800 (PST)) it happened Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
<898c581e-34d3-4190-8499-82bb517d7744n@googlegroups.com>:

>On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 4:24:16 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sun, 8 Jan 2023 00:42:52 -0800 (PST)) it happened Ricky
>>
><gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> <f81029be-f1b5-4bbc...@googlegroups.com>:
>> >On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 3:23:51 AM UTC-5, Skybuck Flying wrote:
>> >> SEE BELOW FOR LINKS TO PICTURES, ILLUSTRATING THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION.
>>
>>>
>> >> CAUSE GOD KNOWS IT CAN DO BETTERRRRRRR.....
>> >You aren't supposed to rest your hands on anything while you type. Your hands
>>
>>should be a straight line from your lower arm, so the wrist is not bent.
>>
>> The best keyboard I ever used in this regard was the MS Natural keyboard.
>>
>> It was great! Although large. Not possible in a laptop.
>> >
>> >I'm giving thought to getting a keyboard to use with the laptop. But then
>>
>>the screen would not be close enough to see, so I'd need a monitor. Then
>it
>> >gets a bit messy to set everything where I want it. The monitor needs to
>>
>>hang from the ceiling, but that's not so easy to do. It would actually be
>>
>>a 48 inch TV about six feet away. lol
>> I always use the mouse with the laptop.
>> The lettering on the keyboards is fading from intensive use...
>> Have 3 or more on the table at once:
>> http://panteltje.com/pub/4_keyboards_IXIMG_0913.JPG
>
>Yeah, I can't see well enough to work like that anymore. Must be nice.
>
>
>> This small one controls scripts on Raspberry Pi4
>> http://panteltje.com/pub/small_keyboard_IXIMG_0914.JPG
>> sort of an advanced remote, you can also type commands just like in a terminal.
>>
>>
>I have a waterproof keyboard too somewhere, and voice control plus keyboard
>on the PC upstairs..
>> Saying 'show BBC1' does just that on the monitor.
>>
>> I always rest my hands when typing on the laptop.
>>
>> Just a question of getting used to an other interface...
>
>Repetitive motion injury is not a matter of "getting used to it". Once you
>get this injury, it may never go away. So it's much better to prevent it than
>to try to heal. Of course, you may not get it. Just like many people
>who smoke, do not die of lung cancer.

I have been using the keyboard and before that terminals, typewriter, since I can remember,
And writing text by hand..
Never seen anybody with 'repetitive motion injury'.
I think maybe some people need to be taught how to type, and maybe how to use a mouse
'repetitive motion' seems silly to me, in my youth my farther had me join a walking club
10 km marches when I was in primary school, am still running around,
was asked to fill in a vacancy in the companies football club once,..
Did my best,
Next days muscle ache....

I looked at that Brazilian guy in the Qatar football games, somehow I think
I could keep up even now at my age for 2 x 45 minutes...
Do a lot of biking, sometimes I push it a bit just to see when I get out of breath...
But then I do not smoke and eat very specific food.
All that, walking, biking etc is 'repetitive motion'.
Not everybody is the same.
If you are cramped up I think typing becomes stressful...
Depends on what you need to type too: )
I do some coding in asm, C.. takes more time to think than to enter the instructions, so
nothing fast or stressful about it, Usenet also for fun..
I once had a secretary, very nice women, who would type technical notes I wrote extremely fast.
That speed really amazed me...

As to sharpness of vision, I now have some reading glasses, that really helps a lot.
Have very very good vision in near the dark.. not everybody is the same
one technician in the color studios actually was color blind, never understood how he could cope
he was later placed in some remote small studio..
I still do repair and solder together small electronics SMD stuff.
Do have a third hand with magnifying glass and alligator clips, is all I need so far.
Bit of decent light helps too..

Good editor I use (and have been using) 'joe' as editor for everything including' this posting since 1998.
And in coding I always have color off, colored keywords in source code is horrible.
And I always use black on white in the terminals, as white on black constantly causes brightness changes
those are much less in black on white.

On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 9:19:14 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Sun, 8 Jan 2023 02:29:18 -0800 (PST)) it happened Ricky
> <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
> <898c581e-34d3-4190...@googlegroups.com>:
> >On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 4:24:16 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >> On a sunny day (Sun, 8 Jan 2023 00:42:52 -0800 (PST)) it happened Ricky
> >>
> ><gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> <f81029be-f1b5-4bbc...@googlegroups.com>:
> >> >On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 3:23:51 AM UTC-5, Skybuck Flying wrote:
> >> >> SEE BELOW FOR LINKS TO PICTURES, ILLUSTRATING THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION.
> >>
> >>>
> >> >> CAUSE GOD KNOWS IT CAN DO BETTERRRRRRR.....
> >> >You aren't supposed to rest your hands on anything while you type. Your hands
> >>
> >>should be a straight line from your lower arm, so the wrist is not bent..
> >>
> >> The best keyboard I ever used in this regard was the MS Natural keyboard.
> >>
> >> It was great! Although large. Not possible in a laptop.
> >> >
> >> >I'm giving thought to getting a keyboard to use with the laptop. But then
> >>
> >>the screen would not be close enough to see, so I'd need a monitor. Then
> >it
> >> >gets a bit messy to set everything where I want it. The monitor needs to
> >>
> >>hang from the ceiling, but that's not so easy to do. It would actually be
> >>
> >>a 48 inch TV about six feet away. lol
> >> I always use the mouse with the laptop.
> >> The lettering on the keyboards is fading from intensive use...
> >> Have 3 or more on the table at once:
> >> http://panteltje.com/pub/4_keyboards_IXIMG_0913.JPG
> >
> >Yeah, I can't see well enough to work like that anymore. Must be nice.
> >
> >
> >> This small one controls scripts on Raspberry Pi4
> >> http://panteltje.com/pub/small_keyboard_IXIMG_0914.JPG
> >> sort of an advanced remote, you can also type commands just like in a terminal.
> >>
> >>
> >I have a waterproof keyboard too somewhere, and voice control plus keyboard
> >on the PC upstairs..
> >> Saying 'show BBC1' does just that on the monitor.
> >>
> >> I always rest my hands when typing on the laptop.
> >>
> >> Just a question of getting used to an other interface...
> >
> >Repetitive motion injury is not a matter of "getting used to it". Once you
> >get this injury, it may never go away. So it's much better to prevent it than
> >to try to heal. Of course, you may not get it. Just like many people
> >who smoke, do not die of lung cancer.
> I have been using the keyboard and before that terminals, typewriter, since I can remember,
> And writing text by hand..
> Never seen anybody with 'repetitive motion injury'.
> I think maybe some people need to be taught how to type, and maybe how to use a mouse
> 'repetitive motion' seems silly to me, in my youth my farther had me join a walking club
> 10 km marches when I was in primary school, am still running around,
> was asked to fill in a vacancy in the companies football club once,..
> Did my best,
> Next days muscle ache....
>
> I looked at that Brazilian guy in the Qatar football games, somehow I think
> I could keep up even now at my age for 2 x 45 minutes...
> Do a lot of biking, sometimes I push it a bit just to see when I get out of breath...
> But then I do not smoke and eat very specific food.
> All that, walking, biking etc is 'repetitive motion'.
> Not everybody is the same.
> If you are cramped up I think typing becomes stressful...
> Depends on what you need to type too: )
> I do some coding in asm, C.. takes more time to think than to enter the instructions, so
> nothing fast or stressful about it, Usenet also for fun..
> I once had a secretary, very nice women, who would type technical notes I wrote extremely fast.
> That speed really amazed me...
>
> As to sharpness of vision, I now have some reading glasses, that really helps a lot.
> Have very very good vision in near the dark.. not everybody is the same
> one technician in the color studios actually was color blind, never understood how he could cope
> he was later placed in some remote small studio..
> I still do repair and solder together small electronics SMD stuff.
> Do have a third hand with magnifying glass and alligator clips, is all I need so far.
> Bit of decent light helps too..
>
> Good editor I use (and have been using) 'joe' as editor for everything including' this posting since 1998.
> And in coding I always have color off, colored keywords in source code is horrible.
> And I always use black on white in the terminals, as white on black constantly causes brightness changes
> those are much less in black on white.

If your vision is better in the dark, that may indicate cataracts are starting.

I'm going to need a good lens for the project I'm working on. Anyone recommend something good and facile? I've got a couple of the old lenses with a fluorescent circular bulb (yeah, they're that old). I've seen lamp/lenses that are lighter and the hinge works better. I've just not had a chance to try one.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209