I'm looking to pick up a small (tiny?) MIDI keyboard,
primarily for data entry (not "performance"). It
seems like 2 octaves is the smallest practical option.

Fine.

But, all of the vendors appear to support (require?)
web accounts for the devices. Not just for "firmware
updates" but, apparently, for configuration changes
of various sorts.

So, what happens to your device when manufacturer
goes away? Or, chooses to no longer to support
"Model X"?

It seems like these changes are sent directly to the
device; not general purpose downloads (files) that
you could archive and apply, as needed, at a later date.

Advice?

Thanks!

On 2023-01-11 04:13, Don Y wrote:
> I'm looking to pick up a small (tiny?) MIDI keyboard,
> primarily for data entry (not "performance"). It
> seems like 2 octaves is the smallest practical option.
>
> Fine.
>
> But, all of the vendors appear to support (require?)
> web accounts for the devices. Not just for "firmware
> updates" but, apparently, for configuration changes
> of various sorts.
>
> So, what happens to your device when manufacturer
> goes away? Or, chooses to no longer to support
> "Model X"?

I think we can expect more of that. It's an ideal way
to force instant obsolescence at the vendor's convenience.

Collectively, we should fight it.

Jeroen Belleman

Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> On 2023-01-11 04:13, Don Y wrote:
>> I'm looking to pick up a small (tiny?) MIDI keyboard,
>> primarily for data entry (not "performance").  It
>> seems like 2 octaves is the smallest practical option.
>>
>> Fine.
>>
>> But, all of the vendors appear to support (require?)
>> web accounts for the devices.  Not just for "firmware
>> updates" but, apparently, for configuration changes
>> of various sorts.
>>
>> So, what happens to your device when manufacturer
>> goes away?  Or, chooses to no longer to support
>> "Model X"?
>
> I think we can expect more of that. It's an ideal way
> to force instant obsolescence at the vendor's convenience.
>
> Collectively, we should fight it.
>
> Jeroen Belleman

Yup. If you don't like the tune, don't dance to it.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

On 1/11/2023 2:40 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> On 2023-01-11 04:13, Don Y wrote:
>> I'm looking to pick up a small (tiny?) MIDI keyboard,
>> primarily for data entry (not "performance").  It
>> seems like 2 octaves is the smallest practical option.
>>
>> Fine.
>>
>> But, all of the vendors appear to support (require?)
>> web accounts for the devices.  Not just for "firmware
>> updates" but, apparently, for configuration changes
>> of various sorts.
>>
>> So, what happens to your device when manufacturer
>> goes away?  Or, chooses to no longer to support
>> "Model X"?
>
> I think we can expect more of that. It's an ideal way
> to force instant obsolescence at the vendor's convenience.

It makes sense from the vendor's point of view. What's
worse are "products" that actually ARE delivered as "services".

I don't mind if I need to fetch some script or application
from a site -- via a registered account -- that wasn't
convenient (or available) to ship with the product. I can
discipline myself to fetch EVERYTHING and stash copies
"offline" for my later use (I do this with software updates,
drivers, etc. so I am not reliant on their continued
availability).

But, if I have to rely on the site in order to use/install
that, then it gets annoying. E.g., MS's license servers have
got to be a silly service to maintain, years after the
associated OS's have been EOL'd.

(So, use manufacturer issued media and SLIC to "auto-license"
without ever having to contact MS)

> Collectively, we should fight it.

From a quick canvas of "MIDI keyboards", it seems like all
want to develop a similar "relationship" with their users
(and their kit!).

I'd like to know which one(s) will leave me with the most
functionality/flexibility if I abandon their "services"
(before THEY abandon ME).

On 1/10/2023 10:13 PM, Don Y wrote:
> I'm looking to pick up a small (tiny?) MIDI keyboard,
> primarily for data entry (not "performance").  It
> seems like 2 octaves is the smallest practical option.
>
> Fine.
>
> But, all of the vendors appear to support (require?)
> web accounts for the devices.  Not just for "firmware
> updates" but, apparently, for configuration changes
> of various sorts.
>
> So, what happens to your device when manufacturer
> goes away?  Or, chooses to no longer to support
> "Model X"?
>
> It seems like these changes are sent directly to the
> device; not general purpose downloads (files) that
> you could archive and apply, as needed, at a later date.
>
> Advice?
>
> Thanks!
>

If you get a controller that can take an AC adapter, and has a MIDI
output port that defaults to sending data from the device (not from the
PC host) like e.g. this model from a number of years back:

<https://reverb.com/p/m-audio-oxygen-8-v2-25-key-midi-controller-keyboard>

It won't be obsolete anytime soon, I expect 5 pin MIDI will be around
for quite a while longer.

A lot of the newer two octave MIDI keyboards have done away with the 5
pin DIN ports entirely, so for something basic that has them it's
probably worth looking at older models like that one.

On 1/11/2023 3:46 AM, bitrex wrote:
> On 1/10/2023 10:13 PM, Don Y wrote:
>> I'm looking to pick up a small (tiny?) MIDI keyboard,
>> primarily for data entry (not "performance").  It
>> seems like 2 octaves is the smallest practical option.
>>
>> Fine.
>>
>> But, all of the vendors appear to support (require?)
>> web accounts for the devices.  Not just for "firmware
>> updates" but, apparently, for configuration changes
>> of various sorts.
>>
>> So, what happens to your device when manufacturer
>> goes away?  Or, chooses to no longer to support
>> "Model X"?
>>
>> It seems like these changes are sent directly to the
>> device; not general purpose downloads (files) that
>> you could archive and apply, as needed, at a later date.

> If you get a controller that can take an AC adapter, and has a MIDI output port
> that defaults to sending data from the device (not from the PC host) like e.g.
> this model from a number of years back:
>
> <https://reverb.com/p/m-audio-oxygen-8-v2-25-key-midi-controller-keyboard>
>
> It won't be obsolete anytime soon, I expect 5 pin MIDI will be around for quite
> a while longer.

I looked at a Launchkey 25 MK3 which seems to fit that bill,
though it relies on a USB connection for power (I assume JUST power
in the absence of a USB host).

An MPK seemed to be entirely PC-related. :<

> A lot of the newer two octave MIDI keyboards have done away with the 5 pin DIN
> ports entirely, so for something basic that has them it's probably worth
> looking at older models like that one.

So, what's going on between the keyboard and "web site" (via PC)
when all these configuration changes are "downloaded"? Is that
just to tailor the keyboard to a particular DAW?

I.e., if the web site went away, what would I (it) lose?

On 1/11/2023 11:40, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> On 2023-01-11 04:13, Don Y wrote:
>> I'm looking to pick up a small (tiny?) MIDI keyboard,
>> primarily for data entry (not "performance").  It
>> seems like 2 octaves is the smallest practical option.
>>
>> Fine.
>>
>> But, all of the vendors appear to support (require?)
>> web accounts for the devices.  Not just for "firmware
>> updates" but, apparently, for configuration changes
>> of various sorts.
>>
>> So, what happens to your device when manufacturer
>> goes away?  Or, chooses to no longer to support
>> "Model X"?
>
> I think we can expect more of that. It's an ideal way
> to force instant obsolescence at the vendor's convenience.
>
> Collectively, we should fight it.
>
> Jeroen Belleman

We should of course, but it is getting harder by the day.
A few years ago I had a customer from India who bought a netMCA.
We spent may be half an hour talking over skype with me trying
to convey the message to him that while our netmca works over
the net it does not require any access to the Internet as long as
the customer does not want to get online assistance from us; he kept
repeating works like "cloud" etc., completely non-applicable but
that's what he was worried about.
I am beginning to question the name "netMCA" I made up some 10+
years ago, perhaps it conveys the wrong message nowadays....

On 1/11/2023 5:06 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> A few years ago I had a customer from India who bought a netMCA.
> We spent may be half an hour talking over skype with me trying
> to convey the message to him that while our netmca works over
> the net it does not require any access to the Internet as long as
> the customer does not want to get online assistance from us; he kept
> repeating works like "cloud" etc., completely non-applicable but
> that's what he was worried about.

I think you took the right approach. I have an EPROM programmer
(Unisite) that has *no* user interface. It relies on a (customer
provided) glass titty (ANSI 3.64) for user input and output.

IIRC, your product *does* include a display -- but, mirrors
it, remotely. I suspect this is the way most modern devices
will evolve, going forward -- likely eliding the display hardware
in the process ("virtual interfaces" not limited by proximity
to the actual hardware)

It lets the product save on the costs of the display while
providing all of those features to the user -- but, on the
*user's* hardware.

It's like having a GPS in a car, nowadays... foolish as most folks
have phones with that capability -- that is more *current* than
the facilities in the car! (cars should develop interfaces to
phones and elide that functionality much like they provide voice/SMS
interfaces to phones instead of the telecom hardware itself!)

> I am beginning to question the name "netMCA" I made up some 10+
> years ago, perhaps it conveys the wrong message nowadays....

On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 04:13:34 UTC+1, Don Y wrote:
> I'm looking to pick up a small (tiny?) MIDI keyboard,
> primarily for data entry (not "performance"). It
> seems like 2 octaves is the smallest practical option.
>
> Fine.
>
> But, all of the vendors appear to support (require?)
> web accounts for the devices. Not just for "firmware
> updates" but, apparently, for configuration changes
> of various sorts.
>
> So, what happens to your device when manufacturer
> goes away? Or, chooses to no longer to support
> "Model X"?
>
> It seems like these changes are sent directly to the
> device; not general purpose downloads (files) that
> you could archive and apply, as needed, at a later date.
>
> Advice?
>
> Thanks!
visit Hackaday one day
| https://hackaday.com/blog/?s=MIDI

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January 11, 2023
Nanoaetherphone Is A Special MIDI Controller
December 14, 2022 by Lewin Day
11 Comments

MIDI controllers can be simple straightforward keyboards, or wild magical devices that seem to snatch notes from the very aether itself. As you might expect from the name, the Nanoaetherphone II is one of the latter.

The device is inspired by the Theremin, and was built to celebrate its 100th anniversary. The Nanoaetherphone II is all about using sensors to capture data from wireless hand-wavey interactions, and turn it into MIDI messages.. To this end, it has an LDR sensor for detecting light levels, which determines volume levels. This is actuated by the user’s thumb, blocking the sensor or allowing ambient light to reach it. At the front of the handheld unit, there is also an ultrasonic range sensor. Depending on how close the sensor is to the user’s hand or other object determines the exact note sent by the device. As a MIDI controller, it is intended to be hooked up to an external synthesizer to actually generate sound.

The overall concept isn’t too complicated, and the design makes it easy to pickup and play. We imagine it could even be foolproofed by programming it only to play notes from a given scale or mode, allowing for easy soloing without too many of those ill-tempered blue notes. Jazz enthusiasts might prefer it to just spit out any and all notes, of course.

We love a good MIDI controller around these parts, and we’ve seen everything from knitted models to those made out of old phones. Video after the break.

Continue reading “Nanoaetherphone Is A Special MIDI Controller” →
Posted in Musical HacksTagged midi, midi controller, music, theremin
Touch Tone MIDI Phone And Vocoder Covers Daft Punk
September 6, 2022 by Donald Papp
3 Comments

[poprhythm]’s Touch Tone MIDI Phone is a fantastic conversion of an old touch tone phone into a MIDI instrument complete with intact microphone, but this project isn’t just about showing off the result. [poprhythm] details everything about how he interfaced to the keypad, how he used that with an Arduino to create a working MIDI interface, and exactly how he decided — musically speaking — what each button should do.. The LEDs on the phone are even repurposed to blink happily depending on what is going on, which is a nice touch.

Of course, it doesn’t end there. [poprhythm] also makes use of the microphone in the phone’s handset. Since the phone is now a MIDI instrument with both a microphone and note inputs, it’s possible to use them together as the inputs to vocoder software, which he demonstrates by covering Around the World by Daft Punk (video).

We love how [poprhythm] explains how he interfaced to everything because hardware work is all about such details, and finding the right resources. Here’s the GitHub repository for the Arduino code and a few links to other resources.

We have seen MIDI phone projects before, and each one is always unique in its own way: here’s a different approach to converting a keypad phone to MIDI, and this rotary pulse-dial phone went in a completely different direction with the phone itself completely unmodified, using only external interfacing.

You can admire [poprhythm]’s Touch Tone MIDI Phone in action in the short videos embedded below, with each one showing off a different aspect of the build. It’s great work!

Continue reading “Touch Tone MIDI Phone And Vocoder Covers Daft Punk” →
Posted in Arduino Hacks, Musical HacksTagged daft punk, diy, dtmf, midi, music, phone, touch tone, vocoder
MIDI Controller Looks Good, Enables Your Air Guitar Habit
May 18, 2022 by Al Williams
8 Comments

We all want to be guitar heroes, but most of us have to settle for letting a MIDI board play our riffs using a MIDI controller. [Joris] thinks a MIDI controller should look like a cool instrument and thus the Ni28 was born. Honestly, we first thought we were looking at wall art, but on closer look, you can see the fretboard and the soundhole are festooned with buttons.

Actually, they aren’t really buttons. The Ni in the name is because the buttons are nickel-plated brass plates that act like touch switches. There’s virtually no activation force required and you can easily touch more than one plate at a time.

Continue reading “MIDI Controller Looks Good, Enables Your Air Guitar Habit” →
Posted in Musical HacksTagged guitar, midi, midi controller
Mini MIDI Synth Uses Minimum Number Of Parts
May 1, 2022 by Bryan Cockfield
18 Comments

The 80s were the golden age of synthesizers in pop music. Hugely complicated setups that spared no expense were the norm, with synths capable of recreating anything from pianos and guitars to percussion, strings, and brass. These types of setups aren’t strictly necessary if you’re looking to make music, though, especially in the modern age of accessible microcontrollers. This synthesizer from [Folkert] with MIDI capabilities, for example, creates catchy tunes with only a handful of parts.

This tiny synth is built around an ESP32 and works by generating PWM signals normally meant for LEDs. In this case, the PWM signals are sent through a rudimentary amplifier and then on to an audio output device. That could be a small speaker, an audio jack to another amplifier, or a capture device.

The synth’s eight channels use up most of the ESP32’s I/O and provide a sound that’s reminiscent of the eight-bit video game era. The total parts count for this build is shockingly small with only a handful of resistors, the ESP, an optocoupler, and a few jacks.

For those wishing to experiment with synthesizers, a build like this is attractive because it’s likely that all the parts needed are already sitting around in a drawer somewhere with possibly the exception of the 5 pin DIN jacks needed for MIDI capabilities. Either way, [Folkert] has made all of the schematics available on the project page along with some sample mp3 files. For those looking to use parts from old video game systems sitting in their parts drawer, though, take a look at this synthesizer built out of a Sega Genesis.
Posted in Musical HacksTagged eight bit, eight channel, ESP32, I/O, midi, music, pwm, synth, synthesizer
Rotary Phone MIDI Controller Still Makes Calls
March 15, 2022 by Kristina Panos
3 Comments

[Kevin] has long wanted to do something musical with a vintage rotary phone and an Arduino, and has finally done so and committed the first of several experiments to HTML in a five-part series. He found a nice old British Telecom number, but it had been converted to plug and socket wiring to work on the modern system. Because of this, [Kevin] wanted to keep it completely functional as a phone. After all, it ought to work fine until 2025, when pulse dialing will no longer be supported in [Kevin]’s locality.

As you can likely understand, [Kevin] was keen to interface with the phone from the outside and leave the inside untouched. He used a sacrificial ADSL filter’s PCB to break out the socket, and added a pull-up resistor between the pin and 5 V.

Pretty quickly, [Kevin] figured out that when the phone is on the hook, it gives a constant high signal, where as the picking up the phone presents as a high signal going low, and dialing each number results in pulses of that quantity that alternate between high and low. Continue reading “Rotary Phone MIDI Controller Still Makes Calls” →
Posted in Arduino Hacks, Musical HacksTagged arduino, midi, rotary dial, rotary phone
A Gameport Joystick To USB-MIDI Converter
February 24, 2022 by Lewin Day
1 Comment

These days, live music performance often involves electronic synthesizers and computers rather than traditional instruments played by hand. To aid in his own performances, [alekappa] built a special interface to take signals from a joystick and convert them to MIDI messages carried over USB.

The build is simple and straightforward, using a Teensy LC to interface with a simple gameport joystick. With a smattering of simple components, it’s easy to read the outputs of the joystick with only a little debounce code needed to ensure the joystick’s buttons are read accurately. Similarly, analog axes are read using the analog-to-digital converters onboard the microcontroller.

This data is then converted into control changes, note triggers and velocity levels and sent out over the Teensy LC’s USB interface. A mode switch enables changes to the system’s behaviour to be quickly made. The device is wrapped up in a convenient housing nabbed from an old Gameport-to-USB converter from many years ago.

On 1/11/2023 6:23 AM, Don Y wrote:
> On 1/11/2023 3:46 AM, bitrex wrote:
>> On 1/10/2023 10:13 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>> I'm looking to pick up a small (tiny?) MIDI keyboard,
>>> primarily for data entry (not "performance").  It
>>> seems like 2 octaves is the smallest practical option.
>>>
>>> Fine.
>>>
>>> But, all of the vendors appear to support (require?)
>>> web accounts for the devices.  Not just for "firmware
>>> updates" but, apparently, for configuration changes
>>> of various sorts.
>>>
>>> So, what happens to your device when manufacturer
>>> goes away?  Or, chooses to no longer to support
>>> "Model X"?
>>>
>>> It seems like these changes are sent directly to the
>>> device; not general purpose downloads (files) that
>>> you could archive and apply, as needed, at a later date.
>
>> If you get a controller that can take an AC adapter, and has a MIDI
>> output port that defaults to sending data from the device (not from
>> the PC host) like e.g. this model from a number of years back:
>>
>> <https://reverb.com/p/m-audio-oxygen-8-v2-25-key-midi-controller-keyboard>
>>
>> It won't be obsolete anytime soon, I expect 5 pin MIDI will be around
>> for quite a while longer.
>
> I looked at a Launchkey 25 MK3 which seems to fit that bill,
> though it relies on a USB connection for power (I assume JUST power
> in the absence of a USB host).
>
> An MPK seemed to be entirely PC-related.  :<
>
>> A lot of the newer two octave MIDI keyboards have done away with the 5
>> pin DIN ports entirely, so for something basic that has them it's
>> probably worth looking at older models like that one.
>
> So, what's going on between the keyboard and "web site" (via PC)
> when all these configuration changes are "downloaded"?  Is that
> just to tailor the keyboard to a particular DAW?
>
> I.e., if the web site went away, what would I (it) lose?
>

Hi, sorry for the delay in my reply. I'm unsure whether the
configuration software does anything you couldn't strictly do from the
front panel, but with a lot of menu-diving.

I have an Akai 2 octave USB keyboard:

<https://www.strumentimusicali.net/manuali/AKAI_MPK25_ENG.pdf>

Using MIDI-OX:

<http://www.midiox.com/>

I can see that all the keys, knobs, and transport controls send some
default MIDI control change over USB, but different sequencers expect
different CCs for all their various functions. And the manual gives
instructions on how I could tediously define my own presets from the
front panel..

They're all class-compliant USB devices though so they're all going to
send some kind of CC over USB/MIDI when you twiddle a knob or move a
fader I think, it would be shocking to me if they were making
controllers where without the software you were dead in the water and
couldn't edit CC mappings. sadly maybe we're at that point, though..

On 1/11/2023 6:23 AM, Don Y wrote:
> On 1/11/2023 3:46 AM, bitrex wrote:
>> On 1/10/2023 10:13 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>> I'm looking to pick up a small (tiny?) MIDI keyboard,
>>> primarily for data entry (not "performance").  It
>>> seems like 2 octaves is the smallest practical option.
>>>
>>> Fine.
>>>
>>> But, all of the vendors appear to support (require?)
>>> web accounts for the devices.  Not just for "firmware
>>> updates" but, apparently, for configuration changes
>>> of various sorts.
>>>
>>> So, what happens to your device when manufacturer
>>> goes away?  Or, chooses to no longer to support
>>> "Model X"?
>>>
>>> It seems like these changes are sent directly to the
>>> device; not general purpose downloads (files) that
>>> you could archive and apply, as needed, at a later date.
>
>> If you get a controller that can take an AC adapter, and has a MIDI
>> output port that defaults to sending data from the device (not from
>> the PC host) like e.g. this model from a number of years back:
>>
>> <https://reverb.com/p/m-audio-oxygen-8-v2-25-key-midi-controller-keyboard>
>>
>> It won't be obsolete anytime soon, I expect 5 pin MIDI will be around
>> for quite a while longer.
>
> I looked at a Launchkey 25 MK3 which seems to fit that bill,
> though it relies on a USB connection for power (I assume JUST power
> in the absence of a USB host).
>
> An MPK seemed to be entirely PC-related.  :<

Don't know what you mean by "entirely PC-related", AFAIK all recent USB
MIDI keyboards are class-compliant HIDs. Just plug them in and they'll
be detected as a MIDI source device in your software of choice.

On 1/13/2023 8:53 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 1/11/2023 6:23 AM, Don Y wrote:
>> On 1/11/2023 3:46 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>> On 1/10/2023 10:13 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>>> I'm looking to pick up a small (tiny?) MIDI keyboard,
>>>> primarily for data entry (not "performance").  It
>>>> seems like 2 octaves is the smallest practical option.
>>>>
>>>> Fine.
>>>>
>>>> But, all of the vendors appear to support (require?)
>>>> web accounts for the devices.  Not just for "firmware
>>>> updates" but, apparently, for configuration changes
>>>> of various sorts.
>>>>
>>>> So, what happens to your device when manufacturer
>>>> goes away?  Or, chooses to no longer to support
>>>> "Model X"?
>>>>
>>>> It seems like these changes are sent directly to the
>>>> device; not general purpose downloads (files) that
>>>> you could archive and apply, as needed, at a later date.
>>
>>> If you get a controller that can take an AC adapter, and has a MIDI output
>>> port that defaults to sending data from the device (not from the PC host)
>>> like e.g. this model from a number of years back:
>>>
>>> <https://reverb.com/p/m-audio-oxygen-8-v2-25-key-midi-controller-keyboard>
>>>
>>> It won't be obsolete anytime soon, I expect 5 pin MIDI will be around for
>>> quite a while longer.
>>
>> I looked at a Launchkey 25 MK3 which seems to fit that bill,
>> though it relies on a USB connection for power (I assume JUST power
>> in the absence of a USB host).
>>
>> An MPK seemed to be entirely PC-related.  :<
>
> Don't know what you mean by "entirely PC-related", AFAIK all recent USB MIDI

"Requires a PC to be usable". No MIDI-out connector.

> keyboards are class-compliant HIDs. Just plug them in and they'll be detected
> as a MIDI source device in your software of choice.

On 1/13/2023 11:02 PM, Don Y wrote:
> On 1/13/2023 8:53 PM, bitrex wrote:
>> On 1/11/2023 6:23 AM, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 1/11/2023 3:46 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>>> On 1/10/2023 10:13 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>>>> I'm looking to pick up a small (tiny?) MIDI keyboard,
>>>>> primarily for data entry (not "performance").  It
>>>>> seems like 2 octaves is the smallest practical option.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> But, all of the vendors appear to support (require?)
>>>>> web accounts for the devices.  Not just for "firmware
>>>>> updates" but, apparently, for configuration changes
>>>>> of various sorts.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, what happens to your device when manufacturer
>>>>> goes away?  Or, chooses to no longer to support
>>>>> "Model X"?
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems like these changes are sent directly to the
>>>>> device; not general purpose downloads (files) that
>>>>> you could archive and apply, as needed, at a later date.
>>>
>>>> If you get a controller that can take an AC adapter, and has a MIDI
>>>> output port that defaults to sending data from the device (not from
>>>> the PC host) like e.g. this model from a number of years back:
>>>>
>>>> <https://reverb.com/p/m-audio-oxygen-8-v2-25-key-midi-controller-keyboard>
>>>>
>>>> It won't be obsolete anytime soon, I expect 5 pin MIDI will be
>>>> around for quite a while longer.
>>>
>>> I looked at a Launchkey 25 MK3 which seems to fit that bill,
>>> though it relies on a USB connection for power (I assume JUST power
>>> in the absence of a USB host).
>>>
>>> An MPK seemed to be entirely PC-related.  :<
>>
>> Don't know what you mean by "entirely PC-related", AFAIK all recent
>> USB MIDI
>
> "Requires a PC to be usable".  No MIDI-out connector.

Oh I thought you meant it wouldn't work with a Mac, or something. =)

This one has a MIDI in and out on DIN:

<https://www.sweetwater.com/c513--MIDI_Controllers?highlight=MPK225>

This Launchkey video implies that some functions like assigning custom
CC numbers to pots is only adjustable from the software, that sucks:

<https://youtu.be/D4m-ydwGVfw?t=127>

On 1/13/2023 8:42 PM, bitrex wrote:
>> So, what's going on between the keyboard and "web site" (via PC)
>> when all these configuration changes are "downloaded"?  Is that
>> just to tailor the keyboard to a particular DAW?
>>
>> I.e., if the web site went away, what would I (it) lose?
>
> Hi, sorry for the delay in my reply. I'm unsure whether the configuration
> software does anything you couldn't strictly do from the front panel, but with
> a lot of menu-diving.

Ah, OK. In some text, I've seen references to scripts -- so, that
would make sense.

> I have an Akai 2 octave USB keyboard:
>
> <https://www.strumentimusicali.net/manuali/AKAI_MPK25_ENG.pdf>

I see an MPK Mini II, in a case, offered locally:

<https://images.craigslist.org/00R0R_cIM2ZV69EwAz_0t20CI_600x450.jpg>

for $80 -- which doesn't seem outrageous. How much I need a case
is debatable but not worth haggling with the owner.

Not sure of the thumbstick for pitch/modulation (instead of the "wheels").

The big red flag for me was the requirement to have a PC available
to talk to anything else.

A Launchkey 25 mk3 for half that price (no case) -- but, the owner seems
to be a flake :-(

> Using MIDI-OX:
>
> <http://www.midiox.com/>
>
> I can see that all the keys, knobs, and transport controls send some default
> MIDI control change over USB, but different sequencers expect different CCs for
> all their various functions. And the manual gives instructions on how I could
> tediously define my own presets from the front panel..

Is there any way for you to *push* all of that (as a script) over USB?

> They're all class-compliant USB devices though so they're all going to send
> some kind of CC over USB/MIDI when you twiddle a knob or move a fader I think,
> it would be shocking to me if they were making controllers where without the
> software you were dead in the water and couldn't edit CC mappings. sadly maybe
> we're at that point, though..

I'm more concerned about wasting time trying to come up to speed
on *a* product -- only to discover that it's a dead-end, longterm.
I'm tired of playing the perpetual "update" game with software
and OS's forcing changes to apps, etc. Hence, the appeal of something
that "just talks MIDI"...

On 1/13/2023 9:08 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>> Don't know what you mean by "entirely PC-related", AFAIK all recent USB MIDI
>>
>> "Requires a PC to be usable".  No MIDI-out connector.
>
> Oh I thought you meant it wouldn't work with a Mac, or something. =)
>
> This one has a MIDI in and out on DIN:
>
> <https://www.sweetwater.com/c513--MIDI_Controllers?highlight=MPK225>
>
> This Launchkey video implies that some functions like assigning custom CC
> numbers to pots is only adjustable from the software, that sucks:
>
> <https://youtu.be/D4m-ydwGVfw?t=127>

There doesn't appear to be a display on the MPK. How do you
interact with it when making those assignments? Oddball pad
flashes to confirm your input?

On 1/13/2023 9:21 PM, Don Y wrote:
> There doesn't appear to be a display on the MPK.  How do you
> interact with it when making those assignments?  Oddball pad
> flashes to confirm your input?

Ah, your MPK25 is older/newer than the unit I've looked at!