https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0fXA7tQ34

Alan B <amirjfnin@aim.com> wrote:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0fXA7tQ34

The lines on the right are a stylised Space Shuttle crashing...

Jan

On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 4:07:16 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
>
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0fXA7tQ34
>
> The lines on the right are a stylised Space Shuttle crashing...
>
> Jan

Maybe reply with some actual substance?

Cheers

On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 5:00:42 PM UTC-4, Alan B wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 4:07:16 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0fXA7tQ34
> >
> > The lines on the right are a stylised Space Shuttle crashing...
> >
> > Jan
> Maybe reply with some actual substance?
>
> Cheers

Something constructive?

Alan B <amirjfnin@aim.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 4:07:16?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0fXA7tQ34
> >
> > The lines on the right are a stylised Space Shuttle crashing...
> >
> > Jan
>
> Maybe reply with some actual substance?

There was actual substance to begin with?

If so, post it. (hint: a video won't do)

Jan

On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:30:59 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 4:07:16?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0fXA7tQ34
> > >
> > > The lines on the right are a stylised Space Shuttle crashing...
> > >
> > > Jan
> >
> > Maybe reply with some actual substance?
> There was actual substance to begin with?
>
> If so, post it. (hint: a video won't do)
>
> Jan

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333865449_A_Michelson-Morley_Type_Experiment_Should_be_Performed_in_Low_Earth_Orbit_and_Interplanetary_Space

On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:30:59 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 4:07:16?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0fXA7tQ34
> > >
> > > The lines on the right are a stylised Space Shuttle crashing...
> > >
> > > Jan
> >
> > Maybe reply with some actual substance?
> There was actual substance to begin with?
>
> If so, post it. (hint: a video won't do)
>
> Jan

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333865449_A_Michelson-Morley_Type_Experiment_Should_be_Performed_in_Low_Earth_Orbit_and_Interplanetary_Space

On 4/22/23 6:50 AM, Alan B wrote:
> On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:30:59 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 4:07:16?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder
>>> wrote:
>>>> Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0fXA7tQ34
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333865449_A_Michelson-Morley_Type_Experiment_Should_be_Performed_in_Low_Earth_Orbit_and_Interplanetary_Space

The video and paper display many stigmata indicating they were written
by a crank who knows very little about physics, its history, and how
science actually works. The paper and video are based on a "local ether
model" which claims the ether is dragged by the earth, so an experiment
on the surface of the earth must be sensitive to 464cosθ meters/sec (θ =
latitude). The paper's abstract claims "This is too small for even the
most sensitive recent versions of the MMX to unambiguously detect.",
which merely displays the author's ignorance of the experimental record
-- there are several MMX-like experiments sensitive to a supposed "ether
wind" of 1 m/s or better; all report a null result.

Moreover, nobody who understands modern physics and current technology
would want to use a Michelson interferometer for this, as there are
several techniques that are much more sensitive.

Tom Roberts

Alan B <amirjfnin@aim.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:30:59?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 4:07:16?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0fXA7tQ34
> > > >
> > > > The lines on the right are a stylised Space Shuttle crashing...
> > > >
> > > > Jan
> > >
> > > Maybe reply with some actual substance?
> > There was actual substance to begin with?
> >
> > If so, post it. (hint: a video won't do)
> >
> > Jan
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333865449_A_Michelson-Morley_Type
> _Experiment_Should_be_Performed_in_Low_Earth_Orbit_and_Interplanetary_Spac
> e

Repeating the same nonsense over and over again is no use.
I debunked that one 11 days ago,
when you reposted just the same link.

Summary: The GAIA astrometry satellite has been flying an
interferometer for 10 years at the L2 Lagrange point.
(which is much better than low Earth orbit)
The interferometer is stable to about 10^-12,
and it measures its mirror positions to about 1 picometer.
It is part of the BAM in it.
(the basic angle measuring instrument)

All GAIA's measurement results depend on its BAM functioning
in accordance with special relativity.
Any aether drift effect (if it existed)
would make the satellite unusable,

Jan

--
Subject: Re: Fresh Thread for Discussing James Marsen's Article
Regarding Trying MMX While in Orbit
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2023 22:52:37 +0200
Message-ID: <1q9upb0.pflxxf12rpehoN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>

On Monday, 8 May 2023 at 11:02:44 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:30:59?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 4:07:16?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0fXA7tQ34
> > > > >
> > > > > The lines on the right are a stylised Space Shuttle crashing...
> > > > >
> > > > > Jan
> > > >
> > > > Maybe reply with some actual substance?
> > > There was actual substance to begin with?
> > >
> > > If so, post it. (hint: a video won't do)
> > >
> > > Jan
> >
> > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333865449_A_Michelson-Morley_Type
> > _Experiment_Should_be_Performed_in_Low_Earth_Orbit_and_Interplanetary_Spac
> > e
> Repeating the same nonsense over and over again is no use.
> I debunked that one 11 days ago,
> when you reposted just the same link.
>
> Summary: The GAIA astrometry satellite has been flying an
> interferometer for 10 years at the L2 Lagrange point.
> (which is much better than low Earth orbit)
>
> The interferometer is stable to about 10^-12,
> and it measures its mirror positions to about 1 picometer.
> It is part of the BAM in it.
> (the basic angle measuring instrument)
>
> All GAIA's measurement results depend on its BAM functioning
> in accordance with special relativity.

And its improper clocks keep measuring t'=t, just
like all serious clocks always did.

> Any aether drift effect (if it existed)
> would make the satellite unusable,

Unless it wouldn't. Ever heard oF Lorentz
ether theory, poor halfbrain?

Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, 8 May 2023 at 11:02:44 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:30:59?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 4:07:16?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0fXA7tQ34
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The lines on the right are a stylised Space Shuttle crashing...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jan
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe reply with some actual substance?
> > > > There was actual substance to begin with?
> > > >
> > > > If so, post it. (hint: a video won't do)
> > > >
> > > > Jan
> > >
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333865449_A_Michelson-Morley_Type
> > > _Experiment_Should_be_Performed_in_Low_Earth_Orbit_and_Interplanetary_Spac
> > > e
> > Repeating the same nonsense over and over again is no use.
> > I debunked that one 11 days ago,
> > when you reposted just the same link.
> >
> > Summary: The GAIA astrometry satellite has been flying an
> > interferometer for 10 years at the L2 Lagrange point.
> > (which is much better than low Earth orbit)
> >
> > The interferometer is stable to about 10^-12,
> > and it measures its mirror positions to about 1 picometer.
> > It is part of the BAM in it.
> > (the basic angle measuring instrument)
> >
> > All GAIA's measurement results depend on its BAM functioning
> > in accordance with special relativity.
>
> And its improper clocks keep measuring t'=t, just
> like all serious clocks always did.

Of course they don't.
GAIA does carry an atomic clock, (two actually)
and of course it ticks faster than clocks on Earth,
and also faster than the clocks on GPS or geostationary sats.

All understood and taken care of,

Jan

On Monday, 8 May 2023 at 16:39:58 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Monday, 8 May 2023 at 11:02:44 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:30:59?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 4:07:16?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > > > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0fXA7tQ34
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The lines on the right are a stylised Space Shuttle crashing...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe reply with some actual substance?
> > > > > There was actual substance to begin with?
> > > > >
> > > > > If so, post it. (hint: a video won't do)
> > > > >
> > > > > Jan
> > > >
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333865449_A_Michelson-Morley_Type
> > > > _Experiment_Should_be_Performed_in_Low_Earth_Orbit_and_Interplanetary_Spac
> > > > e
> > > Repeating the same nonsense over and over again is no use.
> > > I debunked that one 11 days ago,
> > > when you reposted just the same link.
> > >
> > > Summary: The GAIA astrometry satellite has been flying an
> > > interferometer for 10 years at the L2 Lagrange point.
> > > (which is much better than low Earth orbit)
> > >
> > > The interferometer is stable to about 10^-12,
> > > and it measures its mirror positions to about 1 picometer.
> > > It is part of the BAM in it.
> > > (the basic angle measuring instrument)
> > >
> > > All GAIA's measurement results depend on its BAM functioning
> > > in accordance with special relativity.
> >
> > And its improper clocks keep measuring t'=t, just
> > like all serious clocks always did.
> Of course they don't.
> GAIA does carry an atomic clock, (two actually)
> and of course it ticks faster than clocks on Earth,

Check the own definition of your idiot guru;
ticking is insignificant, what matters are
indications.

Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, 8 May 2023 at 16:39:58 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Monday, 8 May 2023 at 11:02:44 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:30:59?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 4:07:16?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder:
> > > > > > > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0fXA7tQ34
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The lines on the right are a stylised Space Shuttle crashing...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Maybe reply with some actual substance?
> > > > > > There was actual substance to begin with?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If so, post it. (hint: a video won't do)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jan
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333865449_A_Michelson-Mor
> > > > > ley_Type
> > > > > _Experiment_Should_be_Performed_in_Low_Earth_Orbit_and_Interplanet
> > > > > ary_Spac e
> > > > Repeating the same nonsense over and over again is no use.
> > > > I debunked that one 11 days ago,
> > > > when you reposted just the same link.
> > > >
> > > > Summary: The GAIA astrometry satellite has been flying an
> > > > interferometer for 10 years at the L2 Lagrange point.
> > > > (which is much better than low Earth orbit)
> > > >
> > > > The interferometer is stable to about 10^-12,
> > > > and it measures its mirror positions to about 1 picometer.
> > > > It is part of the BAM in it.
> > > > (the basic angle measuring instrument)
> > > >
> > > > All GAIA's measurement results depend on its BAM functioning
> > > > in accordance with special relativity.
> > >
> > > And its improper clocks keep measuring t'=t, just
> > > like all serious clocks always did.
> > Of course they don't.
> > GAIA does carry an atomic clock, (two actually)
> > and of course it ticks faster than clocks on Earth,
>
> Check the own definition of your idiot guru;
> ticking is insignificant, what matters are
> indications.

The ticking of its atomic clock provides the rate for readout
of the CCDs that form the images of GAIA.

Without correct understanding of advanced reading of the atomic clock
all of GAIA's images would be off,
and all measured positions would be in error.
GAI measures individual stars many times,
and the images must superimpose between scans.
All of the functioning of GAIA is direct and irrefutable evicence
for correctness of special and general relativity.
For GAIA all this is just applied science, at an engineering level.

Here it is:
<https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Gaia/Gaia_creates_richest_star_map_of_our_Galaxy_and_beyond>

Note: this -is not- a photograph.
It is an atlas, filled with individual stars at their
measured positions,

Jan

On Monday, May 8, 2023 at 3:33:22 PM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Monday, 8 May 2023 at 16:39:58 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Monday, 8 May 2023 at 11:02:44 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:30:59?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > > > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 4:07:16?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder:
> > > > > > > > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0fXA7tQ34
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The lines on the right are a stylised Space Shuttle crashing...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Jan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Maybe reply with some actual substance?
> > > > > > > There was actual substance to begin with?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If so, post it. (hint: a video won't do)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333865449_A_Michelson-Mor
> > > > > > ley_Type
> > > > > > _Experiment_Should_be_Performed_in_Low_Earth_Orbit_and_Interplanet
> > > > > > ary_Spac e
> > > > > Repeating the same nonsense over and over again is no use.
> > > > > I debunked that one 11 days ago,
> > > > > when you reposted just the same link.
> > > > >
> > > > > Summary: The GAIA astrometry satellite has been flying an
> > > > > interferometer for 10 years at the L2 Lagrange point.
> > > > > (which is much better than low Earth orbit)
> > > > >
> > > > > The interferometer is stable to about 10^-12,
> > > > > and it measures its mirror positions to about 1 picometer.
> > > > > It is part of the BAM in it.
> > > > > (the basic angle measuring instrument)
> > > > >
> > > > > All GAIA's measurement results depend on its BAM functioning
> > > > > in accordance with special relativity.
> > > >
> > > > And its improper clocks keep measuring t'=t, just
> > > > like all serious clocks always did.
> > > Of course they don't.
> > > GAIA does carry an atomic clock, (two actually)
> > > and of course it ticks faster than clocks on Earth,
> >
> > Check the own definition of your idiot guru;
> > ticking is insignificant, what matters are
> > indications.
> The ticking of its atomic clock provides the rate for readout
> of the CCDs that form the images of GAIA.
>
> Without correct understanding of advanced reading of the atomic clock
> all of GAIA's images would be off,
> and all measured positions would be in error.
> GAI measures individual stars many times,
> and the images must superimpose between scans.
> All of the functioning of GAIA is direct and irrefutable evicence
> for correctness of special and general relativity.
> For GAIA all this is just applied science, at an engineering level.
>
> Here it is:
> <https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Gaia/Gaia_creates_richest_star_map_of_our_Galaxy_and_beyond>
>
> Note: this -is not- a photograph.
> It is an atlas, filled with individual stars at their
> measured positions,
>
> Jan

Special Relativity and General Relativity are equivalences, not truth. Notice how they are still only called ***theories*** and have been for how long now and counting, still? Abandon SRT and GRT, try something different for a change, and move on already.

LEO_MMX <ned.marsen@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, May 8, 2023 at 3:33:22?PM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Monday, 8 May 2023 at 16:39:58 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Monday, 8 May 2023 at 11:02:44 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:30:59?AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder:
> > > > > > > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 4:07:16?AM UTC-4 J. J. Lodder:
> > > > > > > > > > Alan B <amir...@aim.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0fXA7tQ34
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The lines on the right are a stylised Space Shuttle crashing
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Jan
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Maybe reply with some actual substance?
> > > > > > > > There was actual substance to begin with?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If so, post it. (hint: a video won't do)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333865449_A_Michelson-Mor
> > > > > > > ley_Type
> > > > > > > _Experiment_Should_be_Performed_in_Low_Earth_Orbit_and_Interplanet
> > > > > > > ary_Spac e
> > > > > > Repeating the same nonsense over and over again is no use.
> > > > > > I debunked that one 11 days ago,
> > > > > > when you reposted just the same link.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Summary: The GAIA astrometry satellite has been flying an
> > > > > > interferometer for 10 years at the L2 Lagrange point.
> > > > > > (which is much better than low Earth orbit)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The interferometer is stable to about 10^-12,
> > > > > > and it measures its mirror positions to about 1 picometer.
> > > > > > It is part of the BAM in it.
> > > > > > (the basic angle measuring instrument)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All GAIA's measurement results depend on its BAM functioning
> > > > > > in accordance with special relativity.
> > > > >
> > > > > And its improper clocks keep measuring t'=t, just
> > > > > like all serious clocks always did.
> > > > Of course they don't.
> > > > GAIA does carry an atomic clock, (two actually)
> > > > and of course it ticks faster than clocks on Earth,
> > >
> > > Check the own definition of your idiot guru;
> > > ticking is insignificant, what matters are
> > > indications.
> > The ticking of its atomic clock provides the rate for readout
> > of the CCDs that form the images of GAIA.
> >
> > Without correct understanding of advanced reading of the atomic clock
> > all of GAIA's images would be off,
> > and all measured positions would be in error.
> > GAI measures individual stars many times,
> > and the images must superimpose between scans.
> > All of the functioning of GAIA is direct and irrefutable evicence
> > for correctness of special and general relativity.
> > For GAIA all this is just applied science, at an engineering level.
> >
> > Here it is:
> > <https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Gaia/Gaia_creates_ric
hest_star_map_of_our_Galaxy_and_beyond>
> >
> > Note: this -is not- a photograph.
> > It is an atlas, filled with individual stars at their
> > measured positions,
> >
> > Jan
>
> Special Relativity and General Relativity are equivalences, not truth.

No physical theory ever claims 'truth', whatever that may be.

> Notice how they are still only called ***theories*** and have been for how
> long now and counting, still? Abandon SRT and GRT, try something different
> for a change, and move on already.

Both are finished theories, from the point of view of engineering.
They need to be applied for designing correctly working devices.
And of course engineers routinely do just that.

No way that engineers can say: let us move on, and take another theory,
because their devices need to actually work,

Jan

--
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman)

On Monday, 8 May 2023 at 23:15:37 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> Both are finished theories, from the point of view of engineering.
> They need to be applied for designing correctly working devices.
> And of course engineers routinely do just that.

If your madness weren't ignored nothing would work,
and even you are not stupid enough to really apply it.

> No way that engineers can say: let us move on, and take another theory,

Of course we can, poor halfbrain. Do you think we'll
tolerate forever some idiots telling us that what we do
is improper and broken ?

> because their devices need to actually work,

Instead support your idiot guru. Indeed.