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tech / rec.photo.digital / Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

SubjectAuthor
* Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
+* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|`* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
| `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|  `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|   `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|    +* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Magani
|    |`- Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|    +* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|    |`* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|    | `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|    |  `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|    |   `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|    |    `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|    |     `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|    |      `- Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|    `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|     `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|      `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|       `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|        `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|         `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|          `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|           `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|            `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|             `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|              `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|               `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|                `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                 `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|                  `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                   `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|                    `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                     `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|                      `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                       `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|                        `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                         `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|                          `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|                           +* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                           |`* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|                           | `- Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                           `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Magani
|                            `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                             `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|                              `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                               `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|                                `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                 `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|                                  +* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  |`* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|                                  | +* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |`* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|                                  | | `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  +* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |`* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  | `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |  +* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |  |`* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |  | `- Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |  +* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |  |`* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |  | `- Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |  `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |   `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |    `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |     `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |      `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |       `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |        `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |         `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |          `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |           `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |            `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |             `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |              +* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |              |`* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |              | `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |              |  `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |              |   `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |              |    `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |              |     `- Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |              `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |               `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |                `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |                 `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |                  `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |                   `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |                    `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |                     `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |                      +* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |                      |`* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |                      | `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |                      |  `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |                      |   `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |                      |    `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |                      |     `- Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |                      `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |                       `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  |                        `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | |  |                         `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  | |  `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)David Brooks
|                                  | +* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | +- Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
|                                  | `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Whisky-dave
|                                  `* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Commander Kinsey
`* Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)Peter Jason

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Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

<I5gdK.886924$sb1.47766@fx11.ams1>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=11966&group=rec.photo.digital#11966

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Subject: Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)
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<op.1lqsixinmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>
From: DGB...@nomail.afraid.org (David Brooks)
In-Reply-To: <op.1lqsixinmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>
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Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 22:06:48 +0100
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 by: David Brooks - Fri, 6 May 2022 21:06 UTC

On 06/05/2022 11:24, Commander Kinsey wrote:
[....]
>>> Wouldn't it be great if David Brooks/Commander Kinsey could set up a
>>> dedicated newsgroup of his own, fuck off, and and carry out his
>>> extended diatribes with himself there rather than polluting other
>>> newsgroups.
>>>
>>> geoff
>>
>> Agreed!
>> DB does nothing but pollute newsgroups totally Off topic crud, and odd
>> behavior.
>> I have him effectively filtered, unfortunately the pollution, and
>> damage are all too evident.
>
> You have him ineffectively filtered, or you wouldn't be reading this
> thread.  It says David Brooks right up there!!!!!!  Come on!  What shit
> are you using to filter?!

Will you explain to 'geoff' that I already HAVE my own (commandeered)
Usenet group known as 'alt.computer.workshop'. Everyone is welcome!

I'll be quite happy to come over to help him on 'rec.audio.pro' if he
wants me to. Just say the word!

Leonard (Savageduck) lets his real name slip out sometimes - I think he
blames me for his mistakes.

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

<182j7hlo6tij28sbqqgl69udojgeceeo9s@4ax.com>

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From: pj...@jostle.com (Peter Jason)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac,rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 07:44:59 +1000
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 by: Peter Jason - Mon, 9 May 2022 21:44 UTC

On Thu, 5 May 2022 11:20:58 +0100, David Brooks
<DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

>On 28/04/2022 22:16, Peter Jason wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 08:23:52 +0100, David Brooks
>> <DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/04/2022 00:13, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:17:50 +0100, David Brooks
>>>> <DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 27/04/2022 11:05, David Brooks wrote:
>>>>> [....]
>>>>>> Haha! ? But you are right - they ARE wonderful. I can remember my first
>>>>>> BBQ in Australia with those birds flying around us as my children fed
>>>>>> the wild Wallabies!
>>>>>
>>>>> https://ibb.co/KrkJnYr
>>>>>
>>>>> The colour has faded somewhat!
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah! Memories. :-D
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have similar pics from the 70's and I have PShopped them all to
>>>> great effect. Some are irredeemable though. Your's fixed is an
>>>> example of the successes.
>>>> https://postimg.cc/zb828JLZ
>>>
>>>
>>> Wow! How kind of you to go to so much trouble, Peter.
>>>
>>> I really appreciate that. *THANK YOU*!
>>>
>>> Would you like another to 'play' with?
>>
>> Yes, OK. But it was no trouble.
>> Regards.
>
>
>Hello again, Peter.
>
>My sister is asking if you have have made any progress on the Lands End
>photograph. Has it proved to be more difficult than expected?
>
>Thanks.

Yes somewhat. The photo is against the light. (the server has been
down here).
This is the best I could do for now, though your sending a larger file
might help a little.) The yellow cast has gone, I've lightened the
faces a little, sharpening the image reveals spots and scratches, and
I've increased the vibrance a little. Importantly I've added the
annotation that is very important for future viewers.
If you can get PShop or similar then all the above is possible.
Quality scanning means a lot too. If you have many many
photos/slides then some commercial scanning service might be the way
to go after which you can adjust and annotate at leisure. Do this
while the subjects are still alive. And before the photos deteriorate
further.
https://postimg.cc/FkYdnr3R

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

<5dgeK.153284$4c1.1594@fx13.ams1>

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From: DGB...@nomail.afraid.org (David Brooks)
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 by: David Brooks - Mon, 9 May 2022 22:03 UTC

On 09/05/2022 22:44, Peter Jason wrote:
> On Thu, 5 May 2022 11:20:58 +0100, David Brooks
> <DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>
>> On 28/04/2022 22:16, Peter Jason wrote:
>>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 08:23:52 +0100, David Brooks
>>> <DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 28/04/2022 00:13, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:17:50 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>> <DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27/04/2022 11:05, David Brooks wrote:
>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>> Haha! ? But you are right - they ARE wonderful. I can remember my first
>>>>>>> BBQ in Australia with those birds flying around us as my children fed
>>>>>>> the wild Wallabies!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://ibb.co/KrkJnYr
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The colour has faded somewhat!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah! Memories. :-D
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have similar pics from the 70's and I have PShopped them all to
>>>>> great effect. Some are irredeemable though. Your's fixed is an
>>>>> example of the successes.
>>>>> https://postimg.cc/zb828JLZ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wow! How kind of you to go to so much trouble, Peter.
>>>>
>>>> I really appreciate that. *THANK YOU*!
>>>>
>>>> Would you like another to 'play' with?
>>>
>>> Yes, OK. But it was no trouble.
>>> Regards.
>>
>>
>> Hello again, Peter.
>>
>> My sister is asking if you have have made any progress on the Lands End
>> photograph. Has it proved to be more difficult than expected?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> Yes somewhat. The photo is against the light. (the server has been
> down here).
> This is the best I could do for now, though your sending a larger file
> might help a little.) The yellow cast has gone, I've lightened the
> faces a little, sharpening the image reveals spots and scratches, and
> I've increased the vibrance a little. Importantly I've added the
> annotation that is very important for future viewers.
> If you can get PShop or similar then all the above is possible.
> Quality scanning means a lot too. If you have many many
> photos/slides then some commercial scanning service might be the way
> to go after which you can adjust and annotate at leisure. Do this
> while the subjects are still alive. And before the photos deteriorate
> further.
> https://postimg.cc/FkYdnr3R

Thank you for your efforts and comments, Peter.

My parents died long ago and my younger son died when he was just 28
years of age.

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

<gu7j7h13gd9l881ijfpjp10ehn2p83js0c@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=11983&group=rec.photo.digital#11983

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pj...@jostle.com (Peter Jason)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac,rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 09:22:45 +1000
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 by: Peter Jason - Mon, 9 May 2022 23:22 UTC

On Mon, 9 May 2022 23:03:45 +0100, David Brooks
<DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

>On 09/05/2022 22:44, Peter Jason wrote:
>> On Thu, 5 May 2022 11:20:58 +0100, David Brooks
>> <DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/04/2022 22:16, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 08:23:52 +0100, David Brooks
>>>> <DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 28/04/2022 00:13, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:17:50 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>>> <DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 27/04/2022 11:05, David Brooks wrote:
>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>> Haha! ? But you are right - they ARE wonderful. I can remember my first
>>>>>>>> BBQ in Australia with those birds flying around us as my children fed
>>>>>>>> the wild Wallabies!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://ibb.co/KrkJnYr
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The colour has faded somewhat!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah! Memories. :-D
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have similar pics from the 70's and I have PShopped them all to
>>>>>> great effect. Some are irredeemable though. Your's fixed is an
>>>>>> example of the successes.
>>>>>> https://postimg.cc/zb828JLZ
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow! How kind of you to go to so much trouble, Peter.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really appreciate that. *THANK YOU*!
>>>>>
>>>>> Would you like another to 'play' with?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, OK. But it was no trouble.
>>>> Regards.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello again, Peter.
>>>
>>> My sister is asking if you have have made any progress on the Lands End
>>> photograph. Has it proved to be more difficult than expected?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Yes somewhat. The photo is against the light. (the server has been
>> down here).
>> This is the best I could do for now, though your sending a larger file
>> might help a little.) The yellow cast has gone, I've lightened the
>> faces a little, sharpening the image reveals spots and scratches, and
>> I've increased the vibrance a little. Importantly I've added the
>> annotation that is very important for future viewers.
>> If you can get PShop or similar then all the above is possible.
>> Quality scanning means a lot too. If you have many many
>> photos/slides then some commercial scanning service might be the way
>> to go after which you can adjust and annotate at leisure. Do this
>> while the subjects are still alive. And before the photos deteriorate
>> further.
>> https://postimg.cc/FkYdnr3R
>
>
>Thank you for your efforts and comments, Peter.
>
>My parents died long ago and my younger son died when he was just 28
>years of age.

I'm sorry to hear that David. I too have lost many of the past and now
I treasure all the old photos most of which have no comments on the
subjects names and where/when they were taken. Lately I have been
scrounging around distant relatives of my parents for their old photos
with the deal being my scanning them and returning the originals along
with my others they know nothing of. My father, long dead, once
threw out three kilos of old negatives in an old shoe box to my
endless regret. Lately I've been scanning old letters from WWII,
wills, birth certificates etc and giving copies to all relatives who
will take them.

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

<phnj7h956qsfc5u8qdnthph5dttmf0amgr@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=11985&group=rec.photo.digital#11985

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac,rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 00:15:35 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Tue, 10 May 2022 04:15 UTC

On Tue, 10 May 2022 07:44:59 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 5 May 2022 11:20:58 +0100, David Brooks
><DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>
>>On 28/04/2022 22:16, Peter Jason wrote:
>>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 08:23:52 +0100, David Brooks
>>> <DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 28/04/2022 00:13, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:17:50 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>> <DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27/04/2022 11:05, David Brooks wrote:
>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>> Haha! ? But you are right - they ARE wonderful. I can remember my first
>>>>>>> BBQ in Australia with those birds flying around us as my children fed
>>>>>>> the wild Wallabies!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://ibb.co/KrkJnYr
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The colour has faded somewhat!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah! Memories. :-D
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have similar pics from the 70's and I have PShopped them all to
>>>>> great effect. Some are irredeemable though. Your's fixed is an
>>>>> example of the successes.
>>>>> https://postimg.cc/zb828JLZ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wow! How kind of you to go to so much trouble, Peter.
>>>>
>>>> I really appreciate that. *THANK YOU*!
>>>>
>>>> Would you like another to 'play' with?
>>>
>>> Yes, OK. But it was no trouble.
>>> Regards.
>>
>>
>>Hello again, Peter.
>>
>>My sister is asking if you have have made any progress on the Lands End
>>photograph. Has it proved to be more difficult than expected?
>>
>>Thanks.
>
>Yes somewhat. The photo is against the light. (the server has been
>down here).
>This is the best I could do for now, though your sending a larger file
>might help a little.) The yellow cast has gone, I've lightened the
>faces a little, sharpening the image reveals spots and scratches, and
>I've increased the vibrance a little. Importantly I've added the
>annotation that is very important for future viewers.
>If you can get PShop or similar then all the above is possible.
>Quality scanning means a lot too. If you have many many
>photos/slides then some commercial scanning service might be the way
>to go after which you can adjust and annotate at leisure. Do this
>while the subjects are still alive. And before the photos deteriorate
>further.
>https://postimg.cc/FkYdnr3R

Couldn't help taking a crack at it. I cleaned up the sky and brought
in a little color in the sky. The sky shouldn't compete with the
figures, so I went for just a little color. Cloned out a number of
problems in the figures, but didn't work on the faces. Too little to
work with.

Cleaned up the yellow in the sign. Ran it through a High Pass
filter/Overlay. Removed the "annotation" because viewers don't care
what was done.

Anytime you're working with scans of old photos, the quality of the
finished job will depend on the quality of the scan. This was a poor
scan to begin with.

https://folio.ink/dbzQAR
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

<jMWeK.970331$sb1.698378@fx11.ams1>

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From: DGB...@nomail.afraid.org (David Brooks)
In-Reply-To: <gu7j7h13gd9l881ijfpjp10ehn2p83js0c@4ax.com>
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 by: David Brooks - Wed, 11 May 2022 22:28 UTC

On 10/05/2022 00:22, Peter Jason wrote:
> On Mon, 9 May 2022 23:03:45 +0100, David Brooks
> <DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>
>> On 09/05/2022 22:44, Peter Jason wrote:
>>> On Thu, 5 May 2022 11:20:58 +0100, David Brooks
>>> <DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 28/04/2022 22:16, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 08:23:52 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>> <DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 28/04/2022 00:13, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:17:50 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>>>> <DGB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 27/04/2022 11:05, David Brooks wrote:
>>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>>> Haha! ? But you are right - they ARE wonderful. I can remember my first
>>>>>>>>> BBQ in Australia with those birds flying around us as my children fed
>>>>>>>>> the wild Wallabies!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://ibb.co/KrkJnYr
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The colour has faded somewhat!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ah! Memories. :-D
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have similar pics from the 70's and I have PShopped them all to
>>>>>>> great effect. Some are irredeemable though. Your's fixed is an
>>>>>>> example of the successes.
>>>>>>> https://postimg.cc/zb828JLZ
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow! How kind of you to go to so much trouble, Peter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really appreciate that. *THANK YOU*!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would you like another to 'play' with?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, OK. But it was no trouble.
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello again, Peter.
>>>>
>>>> My sister is asking if you have have made any progress on the Lands End
>>>> photograph. Has it proved to be more difficult than expected?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Yes somewhat. The photo is against the light. (the server has been
>>> down here).
>>> This is the best I could do for now, though your sending a larger file
>>> might help a little.) The yellow cast has gone, I've lightened the
>>> faces a little, sharpening the image reveals spots and scratches, and
>>> I've increased the vibrance a little. Importantly I've added the
>>> annotation that is very important for future viewers.
>>> If you can get PShop or similar then all the above is possible.
>>> Quality scanning means a lot too. If you have many many
>>> photos/slides then some commercial scanning service might be the way
>>> to go after which you can adjust and annotate at leisure. Do this
>>> while the subjects are still alive. And before the photos deteriorate
>>> further.
>>> https://postimg.cc/FkYdnr3R
>>
>>
>> Thank you for your efforts and comments, Peter.
>>
>> My parents died long ago and my younger son died when he was just 28
>> years of age.
>
> I'm sorry to hear that David. I too have lost many of the past and now
> I treasure all the old photos most of which have no comments on the
> subjects names and where/when they were taken. Lately I have been
> scrounging around distant relatives of my parents for their old photos
> with the deal being my scanning them and returning the originals along
> with my others they know nothing of. My father, long dead, once
> threw out three kilos of old negatives in an old shoe box to my
> endless regret. Lately I've been scanning old letters from WWII,
> wills, birth certificates etc and giving copies to all relatives who
> will take them.

Thank you for your kind comment, Peter.

You obviously find plenty to do with your spare time. Well done.

Forgive me - may I ask you to provide a link to the image which you
cleaned up for me? Thanks.

--
David

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

<op.1l2vijolmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Thu, 12 May 2022 23:00 UTC

On Wed, 04 May 2022 14:55:53 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, 4 May 2022 at 10:32:48 UTC+1, David Brooks wrote:
>> On 04/05/2022 09:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> > On Wed, 04 May 2022 09:09:19 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 04/05/2022 08:18, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 07:49:59 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> It's not for me to tell a Physics graduate that there's a fire-risk in
>> >>>> 13 Amp plugs melting! Remember that ALL your efforts will be wasted if
>> >>>> your house burns down around your hardware!
>> >>>
>> >>> It has a fuse. Those wonderful things before the namby pamby circuit
>> >>> breakers that trip if a fly lands on something.
>> >>
>> >> Knowing you, you might have replaced the fuse with a nail!
>> >
>> > Funnily enough, I'm pro-fuse. I'm not bothered about getting a shock,
>> > but I don't want something catching fire. It's amazing how many things
>> > aren't protected properly. For example did you know a twin UK socket is
>> > not rated to 26 amps? Most (apart from MK) are rated to 20 amps. So if
>> > you max out both of them, things melt! I don't remember seeing a
>> > warning on the front not to use both fully at the same time.
>> No, I didn't know that ..... but few things one 'plugs in' in a home use
>> 13 Amps!
>
> That's partly the point an electric 3 bar fire or a washing machine in dryer mode
> and a 3kw electric kettle. But these aren't always close enough and used at the same time
> on a double outlet.

"Probably won't happen" is no reason to put a potential fire in your house.

> Not many things are used continuoisly or for a long period at 13 amps.
> I doubt a washing maching would pull 13 amps and the heater would turn off and on anyway.
> A kettle would but wouldn't be on for more than 10mins.

People plug in fanheaters everywhere.

>> >> I've got one of those circuit breakers. It trips now and again when my
>> >> wife is doing the ironing.
>> >
>> > The earth leakage type or the overload type?
>> Sadly, I have no idea. :-(
>>
>> Can you tell from a picture? https://ibb.co/nckJpXw
>
> Should be some intials like RCCB or something and then check wiki.
> In a correctly wired property they should have the correct one fitted to the fuse box.

Is this acceptable to you?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wuhy3rnur87yrz9/s-l1600.jpg?dl=0

>> > The earth leakage ones
>> > hate microwave ovens, which leak current to earth on purpose. I
>> > disconnected the earth to mine when I saw a parrot trying to chew the
>> > flex. I removed the earth so the current couldn't go from the wire in
>> > her beak through her heart to the earthed microwave chassis under her
>> > feet [1]. But now when I run the microwave I get a tingle if I touch
>> > it. So clearly something is meant to go to earth. At work, a microwave
>> > kept tripping an earth leakage breaker, but they'd economised and only
>> > put in one for the whole corridor of 100 offices. That caused an
>> > argument or two.
>> >
>> > [1] Earthing things was a very very dangerous idea.
>
> Not by those that know what they are doing.

And you expect a woman in the kitchen to know about earths?

> >Consider you touch
>> > a live wire for some reason - damaged flex, whatever. Normally you'd
>> > get a slight tingle or not even feel it.
>
> Depending on how it is dameged.

Doesn't matter, the point is there is a live wire to touch. Best not to have an earth to go with it.

>> But now imagine your knee is
>> > touching an earthed washing machine. 240V on your hand, 0V on your
>> > knee, with the rather vital heart halfway between. Death. From a
>> > safety device.
>> Oh! Shiver me timbers!
>
> But if the washing machine was earthed it would blow the fuse or whatever device was in the consumer box that's the point.
> That is why earthing a washing machine is a good idea same for most appliances.

Not if the bare live wasn't touching the machine. A damaged flex is likely in a kitchen. Touch that and the earthed machine and you get a lot of current through you.

>> >>> Hey, you're here at 8 in the morning! I got up at 11:30pm, so I'm not
>> >>> sure what time this is for me. I'll be going to bed late afternoon.
>> >>
>> >> I was watch-keeping for a large part of my working life. It's no big
>> >> shakes WHEN one sleeps, but sleep IS necessary!
>> >
>> > I've removed myself from the 24 hour religion of life.
>
> Most humans have this 24 hour cycle even animals do, this is why jet lag happens.

Doesn't work with indoor lighting.

>> I get up when
>> > ready, and go to sleep when tired, whenever that may be.
>
> Most people do but it's the define ready is what's important.

Is English please?

> A former flatmate used to go to work about 9pm return home about 8am
> go to bed midday get up about 7pm.
>
>> A bit like being retired - like me!
>> >>>> I'd forgotten about the Folding Home project. :-(
>> >>>
>> >>> This is getting out of hand. I've joined the Scottish Boinc Team and am
>> >>> running "sprints" and "marathons" to help them win. They usually get in
>> >>> 1/2/3rd place in most competitions. This is not good enough, they must
>> >>> get gold in everything.
>> >>
>> >> THAT was the one you showed me before.
>> >
>> > I only joined the Scottish Boinc Team last week. The only thing I told
>> > you about a long time ago was Rosetta, which doesn't have much work
>> > available just now, only for Windows on modern processors (they need AVX
>> > instructions - 5 of my 7 don't have that, and 1 slows down if I use it,
>> > as it runs on Oracle Virtualpox, sorry, box).
>> You do make me smile, laddie!
>
> Could get expensive running these things with electricity prices going up. ;-)

I'm still on a very low fixed plan! I'm costing them a lot.

>> >>>> I've now installed it on my main computer and will put it on my other
>> >>>> one shortly. I've also publicised the programme on my Facebook timeline
>> >>>> and the group which I run.
>> >>>
>> >>> Excellent, thank you. People aren't flocking to it so much now covid
>> >>> research has declined. People don't seem to care about cancer, which
>> >>> kills far more.
>> >>>
>> >>> Pay close attention to when you complete the tasks and the "timeout" -
>> >>> it has a habit of giving slower computers stuff it can't do in time. If
>> >>> it passes the timeout it's not the end of the world, but if it gets to
>> >>> the expiration date the task has been a waste of time.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for the warning. I didn't like the way it started to trigger my
>> >> cooling fans so have 'turned it down' now.
>> >
>> > I doubt you'll complete much in time if it's not maxed out. Fans are
>> > meant to spin. Most of my fans run at 75% speed.
>> Understood. Thanks.
>> >>>>>>>> Really OT: I can recall when we were driving around the UK on
>> >>>>>>>> holidays
>> >>>>>>>> in the '50s and the RAC/AA (can't remember as I was <10) man on
>> >>>>>>>> their
>> >>>>>>>> bike/sidecar combo used to salute after seeing the badge on the
>> >>>>>>>> front
>> >>>>>>>> of our hire car. I really don't think I'd swap that for no
>> >>>>>>>> internet,
>> >>>>>>>> no decent roads, no mobile phones, etc though. :-)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Are you sure that was a salute? The AA started as a warning for
>> >>>>>>> speed
>> >>>>>>> cameras. If you had the badge and there was a cop ahead, the AA
>> >>>>>>> would
>> >>>>>>> warn you.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> There's substantiating evidence too!
>> >>>>>> https://www.theaa.com/about-us/aa-history/timeline
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 1865: 4mph limit
>> >>>>> 1897: 14mph
>> >>>>> 1903: 20mph
>> >>>>> 1966: 70mph
>> >>>>> Isn't it about time they increased it again?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I once would have agreed with you.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why do you no longer agree?
>> >>
>> >> Far too much traffic on the roads I've travelled in recent times.
>> >
>> > The congestion is *because* we're driving slowly!
>> That may well be true at times. At other times, there are too many
>> vehicles on the road.
>
> Too many people wanting to go from A-B


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Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

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Subject: Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Fri, 13 May 2022 01:05 UTC

On Thu, 05 May 2022 14:01:01 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, 5 May 2022 at 12:24:55 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 23:16:42 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>
>> > On 04/05/2022 11:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 04 May 2022 10:32:40 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 04/05/2022 09:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >>>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 09:09:19 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On 04/05/2022 08:18, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 07:49:59 +0100, David Brooks
>> >>>>>> <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> It's not for me to tell a Physics graduate that there's a
>> >>>>>>> fire-risk in
>> >>>>>>> 13 Amp plugs melting! Remember that ALL your efforts will be
>> >>>>>>> wasted if
>> >>>>>>> your house burns down around your hardware!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> It has a fuse. Those wonderful things before the namby pamby circuit
>> >>>>>> breakers that trip if a fly lands on something.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Knowing you, you might have replaced the fuse with a nail!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Funnily enough, I'm pro-fuse. I'm not bothered about getting a shock,
>> >>>> but I don't want something catching fire. It's amazing how many things
>> >>>> aren't protected properly. For example did you know a twin UK socket is
>> >>>> not rated to 26 amps? Most (apart from MK) are rated to 20 amps. So if
>> >>>> you max out both of them, things melt! I don't remember seeing a
>> >>>> warning on the front not to use both fully at the same time.
>> >>>
>> >>> No, I didn't know that ..... but few things one 'plugs in' in a home use
>> >>> 13 Amps!
>> >>
>> >> Washing machine and tumble dryer next to each other? Quite common I
>> >> would think. Do two loads in a row, one drying while the next one
>> >> washes. Whoops, melted socket.
>> >
>> > Perhaps you are right - but I've never seen or heard of such a meltdown.
>> I have, but it was two of each on an extension strip. Seems the strip was weaker than the 13A fuse. I gave the irritated teacher two new strips, one much longer to plug in the other side of the room. One washer and one dryer seemed to manage together.
>
> I have a LG washer dryer and it says in the instructions NOT to use it from an extention strip.
> Which might seema bit odd but I'm guessing it's because some idiot would and plug a kettle, toaster and fan heater into the same strip.

I see all sorts of weird stuff like that. My dad's log splitter is 2kW (might be 2.5) and says not to use on an extension cord over 5m. I have a 50m cord that says 13A (just over 3kW), so I don't see the problem. Unless they want to lessen the risk of tripping over it? It's running on a 10m cord half unwound attached to a 10m cord fully unwound which is already there for a freezer. I've split about 50 1-tonne bags of logs with it and it works fine. Motorised hydraulics is fun.

>> >>>>> I've got one of those circuit breakers. It trips now and again when my
>> >>>>> wife is doing the ironing.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The earth leakage type or the overload type?
>> >>>
>> >>> Sadly, I have no idea. :-(
>> >>>
>> >>> Can you tell from a picture? https://ibb.co/nckJpXw
>> >>
>> >> Yes I can tell. The large one on the right is the earth leakage, to
>> >> prevent shocks. It trips if 30mA or more is not accounted for (it
>> >> compares live to neutral and if any is missing it must have gone to
>> >> earth, possibly through you, so it trips). Unfortunately you have the
>> >> cheap setup with only one of them, so the whole house will go off [1].
>> >> It also functions as a 100A limiter for the whole house, which should
>> >> trip before the 100A electricity board fuse by your meter does, if you
>> >> were to use that much, or something shorted inside the box, like a wire
>> >> coming loose.
>> >
>> > It's the large, main breaker, is the one that trips with the iron. The
>> > small one's don't ever seem to need resetting!
>> Seems your iron has a loose wire and is leaking power to earth. Or through your wife.
>
> If it's an old iron could be that the flex has twisted somewhere and worn internally
> and a strange of the live wire comes into contact with earth.
> Also I've seen on old appliences that a ON neon is connected between live and earth
> and that can trigger a cutout, even seen one on a PSU where one side of the neon was connected to Live and the other to the metal case of the PSU
> which was earthed.

Some of the lighting in my house uses earth instead of neutral because it was more convenient to connect to that. Just aswell I only have fuses. They're the same thing anyway, there are only 2 conductors coming into my house.

>> >> The others are just limiters and work exactly like fuses, to stop you
>> >> using more than 32A on the socket circuit for example,to prevent a
>> >> fire. I'm assuming the 4th from the left (downstairs power) is what
>> >> tripped when the iron was used, which means you have a very dodgy iron
>> >> exceeding 32 amps when it's meant to use about 8.
>> >
>> > No, as I said above, it's the main breaker which trips!
>> >
>> >> [1] The fancy ones have earth leakage built into every breaker, so if
>> >> you get a shock you only trip that one circuit and the lights don't go
>> >> off, which is precisely what you don't want when up a ladder!
>> >
>> > Understood - but I didn't choose it!
>> I have fuses :-)
>
> I do too and thinking of updating

Why bother? You'll just earn yourself nuisance trips.

>> >>>>>> Hey, you're here at 8 in the morning! I got up at 11:30pm, so I'm not
>> >>>>>> sure what time this is for me. I'll be going to bed late afternoon.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I was watch-keeping for a large part of my working life. It's no big
>> >>>>> shakes WHEN one sleeps, but sleep IS necessary!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I've removed myself from the 24 hour religion of life. I get up when
>> >>>> ready, and go to sleep when tired, whenever that may be.
>> >>>
>> >>> A bit like being retired - like me!
>> >>
>> >> I'm 46 and have decided to retire now. I can get my pension in 9 years.
>> >
>> > I used to sell pension plans. How will you qualify for your at the age
>> > of just 55?
>> I thought it was a law. Maybe it's because mine are government plans. 55 with no reason given, even lower if you can prove you're ill.
>
> Yes I think that is correct but you can lose quite a bit by taking it so early .
> Normally it's about 60 is reasonable.

I haven't checked the amounts, but I assume they assume you will die at a certain age. So if you're taking it over twice as many years, they halve the amount (with adjustments for interest and inflation etc).

>> >>>>>>> I've now installed it on my main computer and will put it on my other
>> >>>>>>> one shortly. I've also publicised the programme on my Facebook
>> >>>>>>> timeline
>> >>>>>>> and the group which I run.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Excellent, thank you. People aren't flocking to it so much now covid
>> >>>>>> research has declined. People don't seem to care about cancer, which
>> >>>>>> kills far more.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Pay close attention to when you complete the tasks and the "timeout" -
>> >>>>>> it has a habit of giving slower computers stuff it can't do in
>> >>>>>> time. If
>> >>>>>> it passes the timeout it's not the end of the world, but if it gets to
>> >>>>>> the expiration date the task has been a waste of time.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks for the warning. I didn't like the way it started to trigger my
>> >>>>> cooling fans so have 'turned it down' now.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I doubt you'll complete much in time if it's not maxed out. Fans are
>> >>>> meant to spin. Most of my fans run at 75% speed.
>> >>>
>> >>> Understood. Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> To reduce fan speed, ensure they're dust free for better cooling, a
>> >> sharp blow from your mouth into it will shift it. Be ready to inhale a
>> >> lot of dust, or hold the end of a running hoover hose nearby!
>> >
>> > Have you ever tried blowing into a 27 inch Apple iMac?!!!
>> I wouldn't be seen dead near one, so no.
>
> This boy obviously has no sense of style ;-)


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Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

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Subject: Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)
From: whisky.d...@gmail.com (Whisky-dave)
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 by: Whisky-dave - Mon, 16 May 2022 12:41 UTC

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 00:00:21 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Wed, 04 May 2022 14:55:53 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, 4 May 2022 at 10:32:48 UTC+1, David Brooks wrote:
> >> On 04/05/2022 09:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> > On Wed, 04 May 2022 09:09:19 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid..org>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 04/05/2022 08:18, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 07:49:59 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> It's not for me to tell a Physics graduate that there's a fire-risk in
> >> >>>> 13 Amp plugs melting! Remember that ALL your efforts will be wasted if
> >> >>>> your house burns down around your hardware!
> >> >>>
> >> >>> It has a fuse. Those wonderful things before the namby pamby circuit
> >> >>> breakers that trip if a fly lands on something.
> >> >>
> >> >> Knowing you, you might have replaced the fuse with a nail!
> >> >
> >> > Funnily enough, I'm pro-fuse. I'm not bothered about getting a shock,
> >> > but I don't want something catching fire. It's amazing how many things
> >> > aren't protected properly. For example did you know a twin UK socket is
> >> > not rated to 26 amps? Most (apart from MK) are rated to 20 amps. So if
> >> > you max out both of them, things melt! I don't remember seeing a
> >> > warning on the front not to use both fully at the same time.
> >> No, I didn't know that ..... but few things one 'plugs in' in a home use
> >> 13 Amps!
> >
> > That's partly the point an electric 3 bar fire or a washing machine in dryer mode
> > and a 3kw electric kettle. But these aren't always close enough and used at the same time
> > on a double outlet.
> "Probably won't happen" is no reason to put a potential fire in your house.

Depends how big you see this potential, this is probabbly why most houses don't have enough sockets
and people have to use extention leads of which the vast majority have 3 extra sockets to use some have more.

> > Not many things are used continuoisly or for a long period at 13 amps.
> > I doubt a washing maching would pull 13 amps and the heater would turn off and on anyway.
> > A kettle would but wouldn't be on for more than 10mins.
> People plug in fanheaters everywhere.

So, but I doubt more than 2 or 3 are running at the same time.

> >> >> I've got one of those circuit breakers. It trips now and again when my
> >> >> wife is doing the ironing.
> >> >
> >> > The earth leakage type or the overload type?
> >> Sadly, I have no idea. :-(
> >>
> >> Can you tell from a picture? https://ibb.co/nckJpXw
> >
> > Should be some intials like RCCB or something and then check wiki.
> > In a correctly wired property they should have the correct one fitted to the fuse box.
> Is this acceptable to you?
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wuhy3rnur87yrz9/s-l1600.jpg?dl=0

Looks a bit risky what would happen if you plugged 5 fan heaters in.
Strange that so many are off too.

> >> > The earth leakage ones
> >> > hate microwave ovens, which leak current to earth on purpose. I
> >> > disconnected the earth to mine when I saw a parrot trying to chew the
> >> > flex. I removed the earth so the current couldn't go from the wire in
> >> > her beak through her heart to the earthed microwave chassis under her
> >> > feet [1]. But now when I run the microwave I get a tingle if I touch
> >> > it. So clearly something is meant to go to earth. At work, a microwave
> >> > kept tripping an earth leakage breaker, but they'd economised and only
> >> > put in one for the whole corridor of 100 offices. That caused an
> >> > argument or two.
> >> >
> >> > [1] Earthing things was a very very dangerous idea.
> >
> > Not by those that know what they are doing.
> And you expect a woman in the kitchen to know about earths?
> > >Consider you touch
> >> > a live wire for some reason - damaged flex, whatever. Normally you'd
> >> > get a slight tingle or not even feel it.
> >
> > Depending on how it is dameged.
> Doesn't matter, the point is there is a live wire to touch. Best not to have an earth to go with it.
Best if the earth touches the live wire before a person does that's the point.

> >> But now imagine your knee is
> >> > touching an earthed washing machine. 240V on your hand, 0V on your
> >> > knee, with the rather vital heart halfway between. Death. From a
> >> > safety device.
> >> Oh! Shiver me timbers!
> >
> > But if the washing machine was earthed it would blow the fuse or whatever device was in the consumer box that's the point.
> > That is why earthing a washing machine is a good idea same for most appliances.
> Not if the bare live wasn't touching the machine. A damaged flex is likely in a kitchen. Touch that and the earthed machine and you get a lot of current through you.
A damaged flex is likely to short yhe live to the earth blowing the fuse or cutout that's the point.

> >> >>> Hey, you're here at 8 in the morning! I got up at 11:30pm, so I'm not
> >> >>> sure what time this is for me. I'll be going to bed late afternoon..
> >> >>
> >> >> I was watch-keeping for a large part of my working life. It's no big
> >> >> shakes WHEN one sleeps, but sleep IS necessary!
> >> >
> >> > I've removed myself from the 24 hour religion of life.
> >
> > Most humans have this 24 hour cycle even animals do, this is why jet lag happens.
> Doesn't work with indoor lighting.

It does, but like everything else it can be overruled to some extent.

> >> I get up when
> >> > ready, and go to sleep when tired, whenever that may be.
> >
> > Most people do but it's the define ready is what's important.
> Is English please?

I went to bed just after

> >> > The congestion is *because* we're driving slowly!
> >> That may well be true at times. At other times, there are too many
> >> vehicles on the road.
> >
> > Too many people wanting to go from A-B
> If they went twice as fast, twice as many cars could do so.

Doesn;t work like that. As people have to stop a turn and slow down.
Then more people would start traveling.

> >> > I was once chased to my house by a neighbour who objected to me
> >> > overtaking his wife. She was going 20 in a 30 zone because of roadworks
> >> > signs. For another road. He claimed it was because of the detour and
> >> > more people using our road that our road had a limit. What a crazy idea
> >> > - if you have more things to do, you have to do them faster!
> >
> > But does that mean you have to travel faster.
> > I doubt most peolpe on a typivcal school run or to go to the loca supermarket would save much time
> > in a car capable of doing 200MHP over one capable of doing 70MPH
> No, but they would do well to go 40 instead of 20.

Facts show that doesn't work too well.

> And actually acceleration is good for cutting in front of the slower drivers.
Good brrakes are handy too, and a driver withy a brain is even better.

> I overtook a BMW on the roundabout the other day, and surprisingly they didn't get angry. Most BMW drivers do. They were in the wrong lane, I was in the correct lane. So I drove faster and they had to slam on their brakes. Not many people get the correct lane there - the highway code is very clear.. If there are two lanes entering a roundabout, the left lane is used for going straight ahead unless otherwise marked. So many people think thee left lane is only for going left.
> >> Of course. The real answer is to do LESS things! ;-)
> >
> > I'd be up for that.
> >
> >> >>>> Competent drivers ignore the limit anyway.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Indeed. It's the slow ones you need to look out for. They drive slow
> >> >>> because they find driving difficult.
> >> >>
> >> >> Many of them are OLD too! ;-)
> >> >
> >> > Plenty middle aged people driving far too slowly too.
> >> You do realise that YOU are now middle aged too?
> >
> > Sounds agist Id like to see a 'test' you could take which once passed meant you could
> > drive above the speed limits others have to keep to. Provided you're car was up to standard too.
> Delete the last sentence and I agree.
> >> >>> Would you be alarmed if while giving you a lift I performed a J-turn?
> >> >>
> >> >> I would if you were going forwards!
> >> >
> >> > I would be afterwards, that's what a J-turn tends to do.
> >> I thought it unlikely that you would attempt such a manoeuvre when
> >> underway - travelling forwards!
> >
> > How about a donut /Doughnut
> I'll only do one if you spell it correctly and pay for the tyres.


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Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

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Subject: Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)
From: whisky.d...@gmail.com (Whisky-dave)
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 by: Whisky-dave - Mon, 16 May 2022 13:49 UTC

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 02:05:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Thu, 05 May 2022 14:01:01 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, 5 May 2022 at 12:24:55 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Wed, 04 May 2022 23:16:42 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On 04/05/2022 11:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 04 May 2022 10:32:40 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> On 04/05/2022 09:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >>>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 09:09:19 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> On 04/05/2022 08:18, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >>>>>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 07:49:59 +0100, David Brooks
> >> >>>>>> <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
> >> >>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> It's not for me to tell a Physics graduate that there's a
> >> >>>>>>> fire-risk in
> >> >>>>>>> 13 Amp plugs melting! Remember that ALL your efforts will be
> >> >>>>>>> wasted if
> >> >>>>>>> your house burns down around your hardware!
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> It has a fuse. Those wonderful things before the namby pamby circuit
> >> >>>>>> breakers that trip if a fly lands on something.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Knowing you, you might have replaced the fuse with a nail!
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Funnily enough, I'm pro-fuse. I'm not bothered about getting a shock,
> >> >>>> but I don't want something catching fire. It's amazing how many things
> >> >>>> aren't protected properly. For example did you know a twin UK socket is
> >> >>>> not rated to 26 amps? Most (apart from MK) are rated to 20 amps. So if
> >> >>>> you max out both of them, things melt! I don't remember seeing a
> >> >>>> warning on the front not to use both fully at the same time.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> No, I didn't know that ..... but few things one 'plugs in' in a home use
> >> >>> 13 Amps!
> >> >>
> >> >> Washing machine and tumble dryer next to each other? Quite common I
> >> >> would think. Do two loads in a row, one drying while the next one
> >> >> washes. Whoops, melted socket.
> >> >
> >> > Perhaps you are right - but I've never seen or heard of such a meltdown.
> >> I have, but it was two of each on an extension strip. Seems the strip was weaker than the 13A fuse. I gave the irritated teacher two new strips, one much longer to plug in the other side of the room. One washer and one dryer seemed to manage together.
> >
> > I have a LG washer dryer and it says in the instructions NOT to use it from an extention strip.
> > Which might seema bit odd but I'm guessing it's because some idiot would and plug a kettle, toaster and fan heater into the same strip.
> I see all sorts of weird stuff like that. My dad's log splitter is 2kW (might be 2.5) and says not to use on an extension cord over 5m. I have a 50m cord that says 13A (just over 3kW), so I don't see the problem.

Thought you knew about physics, it''s a coil and due to induction( sort of eddy currents, resisyance/impedance) and the like it is more likely to heat up and retain that heat than a single lengh of cable.

> Unless they want to lessen the risk of tripping over it? It's running on a 10m cord half unwound attached to a 10m cord fully unwound which is already there for a freezer. I've split about 50 1-tonne bags of logs with it and it works fine. Motorised hydraulics is fun.

I doubt it's on for very long periods continiously that is.

> >> >>>>> I've got one of those circuit breakers. It trips now and again when my
> >> >>>>> wife is doing the ironing.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> The earth leakage type or the overload type?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sadly, I have no idea. :-(
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Can you tell from a picture? https://ibb.co/nckJpXw
> >> >>
> >> >> Yes I can tell. The large one on the right is the earth leakage, to
> >> >> prevent shocks. It trips if 30mA or more is not accounted for (it
> >> >> compares live to neutral and if any is missing it must have gone to
> >> >> earth, possibly through you, so it trips). Unfortunately you have the
> >> >> cheap setup with only one of them, so the whole house will go off [1].
> >> >> It also functions as a 100A limiter for the whole house, which should
> >> >> trip before the 100A electricity board fuse by your meter does, if you
> >> >> were to use that much, or something shorted inside the box, like a wire
> >> >> coming loose.
> >> >
> >> > It's the large, main breaker, is the one that trips with the iron. The
> >> > small one's don't ever seem to need resetting!
> >> Seems your iron has a loose wire and is leaking power to earth. Or through your wife.
> >
> > If it's an old iron could be that the flex has twisted somewhere and worn internally
> > and a strange of the live wire comes into contact with earth.
> > Also I've seen on old appliences that a ON neon is connected between live and earth
> > and that can trigger a cutout, even seen one on a PSU where one side of the neon was connected to Live and the other to the metal case of the PSU
> > which was earthed.
> Some of the lighting in my house uses earth instead of neutral because it was more convenient to connect to that. Just aswell I only have fuses.

Yes I had to re-wire the old PSUs in a school because of that.

> They're the same thing anyway, there are only 2 conductors coming into my house.

there's a reason why the third wire is called Earth.
Just think of teh cost of wiring if it needed to be connected to the moon or even Mars !

> >> >> The others are just limiters and work exactly like fuses, to stop you
> >> >> using more than 32A on the socket circuit for example,to prevent a
> >> >> fire. I'm assuming the 4th from the left (downstairs power) is what
> >> >> tripped when the iron was used, which means you have a very dodgy iron
> >> >> exceeding 32 amps when it's meant to use about 8.
> >> >
> >> > No, as I said above, it's the main breaker which trips!
> >> >
> >> >> [1] The fancy ones have earth leakage built into every breaker, so if
> >> >> you get a shock you only trip that one circuit and the lights don't go
> >> >> off, which is precisely what you don't want when up a ladder!
> >> >
> >> > Understood - but I didn't choose it!
> >> I have fuses :-)
> >
> > I do too and thinking of updating
> Why bother? You'll just earn yourself nuisance trips.

When selling and moving on it's a good plus-point for new buiyers, I might even have to wash the curtains.

> >> >>>>>> Hey, you're here at 8 in the morning! I got up at 11:30pm, so I'm not
> >> >>>>>> sure what time this is for me. I'll be going to bed late afternoon.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> I was watch-keeping for a large part of my working life. It's no big
> >> >>>>> shakes WHEN one sleeps, but sleep IS necessary!
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I've removed myself from the 24 hour religion of life. I get up when
> >> >>>> ready, and go to sleep when tired, whenever that may be.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> A bit like being retired - like me!
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm 46 and have decided to retire now. I can get my pension in 9 years.
> >> >
> >> > I used to sell pension plans. How will you qualify for your at the age
> >> > of just 55?
> >> I thought it was a law. Maybe it's because mine are government plans. 55 with no reason given, even lower if you can prove you're ill.
> >
> > Yes I think that is correct but you can lose quite a bit by taking it so early .
> > Normally it's about 60 is reasonable.
> I haven't checked the amounts, but I assume they assume you will die at a certain age. So if you're taking it over twice as many years, they halve the amount (with adjustments for interest and inflation etc).


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Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

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 by: geoff - Mon, 16 May 2022 21:03 UTC

On 17/05/2022 12:41 am, Whisky-dave wrote:

>
> Depends how big you see this potential, this is probabbly why most houses don't have enough sockets
> and people have to use extention leads of which the vast majority have 3 extra sockets to use some have more.

He he he. When I built my house I ensured that a wall-socket (mostly
double) was pretty much within two or three steps from anywhere.

Still need power strips in several 'intense' areas such as AV setup,
computer 'suite', and music room.

geoff

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

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 by: geoff - Mon, 16 May 2022 21:23 UTC

On 17/05/2022 9:03 am, geoff wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 12:41 am, Whisky-dave wrote:
>
>>
>> Depends how big you see this potential, this is probabbly why most
>> houses don't have enough sockets
>> and people have to use extention leads of which the vast majority have
>> 3 extra sockets to use some have more.
>
> He he he. When I built my house I ensured that a wall-socket (mostly
> double) was pretty much within two or three steps from anywhere.
>
> Still need power strips in several 'intense' areas such as AV setup,
> computer 'suite', and music room.
>
> geoff

Sorry, can't find in the thread where somebody was whinging about
washing machine stating not to run off a power-strip.

This is because of extra contact resistance causing heat/burning, and
potentially (ha ha) poor grounding/earthing.

They are also of very variable quality and can degenerate (contacts wear
or become less tight) with use. Many cheap ones are extremely crappy to
start off with !

All this doubly problematical in 110/120v countries, where currents
involved are around double those of 220/230/240v countries.

geoff

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

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Subject: Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)
From: whisky.d...@gmail.com (Whisky-dave)
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 by: Whisky-dave - Tue, 17 May 2022 12:07 UTC

On Monday, 16 May 2022 at 22:23:18 UTC+1, geoff wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 9:03 am, geoff wrote:
> > On 17/05/2022 12:41 am, Whisky-dave wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Depends how big you see this potential, this is probabbly why most
> >> houses don't have enough sockets
> >> and people have to use extention leads of which the vast majority have
> >> 3 extra sockets to use some have more.
> >
> > He he he. When I built my house I ensured that a wall-socket (mostly
> > double) was pretty much within two or three steps from anywhere.
> >
> > Still need power strips in several 'intense' areas such as AV setup,
> > computer 'suite', and music room.
> >
> > geoff
> Sorry, can't find in the thread where somebody was whinging about
> washing machine stating not to run off a power-strip.

It was me, but not whinging just stating what was in the instructions,
and it was a 9kg load washer dryer.
>
> This is because of extra contact resistance causing heat/burning, and
> potentially (ha ha) poor grounding/earthing.
>
> They are also of very variable quality and can degenerate (contacts wear
> or become less tight) with use. Many cheap ones are extremely crappy to
> start off with !

yes I've noticed that about some really cheap ones. I have a few where even the rocker switch
doesn;t always swith off the individual socket like it should, but I only use these ones for chargers
cerainly wouldn't put a heater, kettle or anyhting about about 1kw on it.

It's also to clear the washing machine manufacture if a fire is caused by the washing machine.
If you've not followed the instructions then the warrenty can also be void and insurance.

>
> All this doubly problematical in 110/120v countries, where currents
> involved are around double those of 220/230/240v countries.
>
> geoff

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Thu, 19 May 2022 08:10 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 14:49:43 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 02:05:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 May 2022 14:01:01 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Thursday, 5 May 2022 at 12:24:55 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 04 May 2022 23:16:42 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On 04/05/2022 11:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, 04 May 2022 10:32:40 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> No, I didn't know that ..... but few things one 'plugs in' in a home use
>> >> >>> 13 Amps!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Washing machine and tumble dryer next to each other? Quite common I
>> >> >> would think. Do two loads in a row, one drying while the next one
>> >> >> washes. Whoops, melted socket.
>> >> >
>> >> > Perhaps you are right - but I've never seen or heard of such a meltdown.
>> >> I have, but it was two of each on an extension strip. Seems the strip was weaker than the 13A fuse. I gave the irritated teacher two new strips, one much longer to plug in the other side of the room. One washer and one dryer seemed to manage together.
>> >
>> > I have a LG washer dryer and it says in the instructions NOT to use it from an extention strip.
>> > Which might seema bit odd but I'm guessing it's because some idiot would and plug a kettle, toaster and fan heater into the same strip.
>> I see all sorts of weird stuff like that. My dad's log splitter is 2kW (might be 2.5) and says not to use on an extension cord over 5m. I have a 50m cord that says 13A (just over 3kW), so I don't see the problem.
>
> Thought you knew about physics, it''s a coil and due to induction( sort of eddy currents, resisyance/impedance) and the like it is more likely to heat up and retain that heat than a single lengh of cable.

It didn't mention coils, it mentioned length of extension.

>> Unless they want to lessen the risk of tripping over it? It's running on a 10m cord half unwound attached to a 10m cord fully unwound which is already there for a freezer. I've split about 50 1-tonne bags of logs with it and it works fine. Motorised hydraulics is fun.
>
> I doubt it's on for very long periods continiously that is.

Indeed, no problems at all. Probably 50% duty cycle while I do a barrow load, then the same time resting. So 50% for half the time is 25% overall. And I presume 2.5kW is when it's pushing against the log hard, a lot of time it's not working at full torque.

>> >> >>>>> I've got one of those circuit breakers. It trips now and again when my
>> >> >>>>> wife is doing the ironing.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> The earth leakage type or the overload type?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sadly, I have no idea. :-(
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Can you tell from a picture? https://ibb.co/nckJpXw
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yes I can tell. The large one on the right is the earth leakage, to
>> >> >> prevent shocks. It trips if 30mA or more is not accounted for (it
>> >> >> compares live to neutral and if any is missing it must have gone to
>> >> >> earth, possibly through you, so it trips). Unfortunately you have the
>> >> >> cheap setup with only one of them, so the whole house will go off [1].
>> >> >> It also functions as a 100A limiter for the whole house, which should
>> >> >> trip before the 100A electricity board fuse by your meter does, if you
>> >> >> were to use that much, or something shorted inside the box, like a wire
>> >> >> coming loose.
>> >> >
>> >> > It's the large, main breaker, is the one that trips with the iron. The
>> >> > small one's don't ever seem to need resetting!
>> >> Seems your iron has a loose wire and is leaking power to earth. Or through your wife.
>> >
>> > If it's an old iron could be that the flex has twisted somewhere and worn internally
>> > and a strange of the live wire comes into contact with earth.
>> > Also I've seen on old appliences that a ON neon is connected between live and earth
>> > and that can trigger a cutout, even seen one on a PSU where one side of the neon was connected to Live and the other to the metal case of the PSU
>> > which was earthed.
>> Some of the lighting in my house uses earth instead of neutral because it was more convenient to connect to that. Just aswell I only have fuses.
>
> Yes I had to re-wire the old PSUs in a school because of that.

Or just get rid of the namby pamby breakers. I changed some breakers to less sensitive ones - the ones that are somehow ok for kids in their homes but illegal for kids in a school. They somehow become more sensitive when they're at school.

>> They're the same thing anyway, there are only 2 conductors coming into my house.
>
> there's a reason why the third wire is called Earth.

Yankee pricks call it ground.

> Just think of teh cost of wiring if it needed to be connected to the moon or even Mars !

Mine is not connected to earth here, it's connected to the transformer ('s earth). You'd think they could just run the 240V cable then use a spike at each house.

>> >> >> The others are just limiters and work exactly like fuses, to stop you
>> >> >> using more than 32A on the socket circuit for example,to prevent a
>> >> >> fire. I'm assuming the 4th from the left (downstairs power) is what
>> >> >> tripped when the iron was used, which means you have a very dodgy iron
>> >> >> exceeding 32 amps when it's meant to use about 8.
>> >> >
>> >> > No, as I said above, it's the main breaker which trips!
>> >> >
>> >> >> [1] The fancy ones have earth leakage built into every breaker, so if
>> >> >> you get a shock you only trip that one circuit and the lights don't go
>> >> >> off, which is precisely what you don't want when up a ladder!
>> >> >
>> >> > Understood - but I didn't choose it!
>> >> I have fuses :-)
>> >
>> > I do too and thinking of updating
>> Why bother? You'll just earn yourself nuisance trips.
>
> When selling and moving on it's a good plus-point for new buiyers, I might even have to wash the curtains.

People don't give a fuck about things like that. They know it will cost them nothing compared to the price of the house if they want to change it.

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

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Subject: Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)
From: whisky.d...@gmail.com (Whisky-dave)
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 by: Whisky-dave - Thu, 19 May 2022 12:23 UTC

On Thursday, 19 May 2022 at 09:10:15 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 14:49:43 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 02:05:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Thu, 05 May 2022 14:01:01 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Thursday, 5 May 2022 at 12:24:55 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 04 May 2022 23:16:42 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On 04/05/2022 11:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> >> On Wed, 04 May 2022 10:32:40 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> No, I didn't know that ..... but few things one 'plugs in' in a home use
> >> >> >>> 13 Amps!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Washing machine and tumble dryer next to each other? Quite common I
> >> >> >> would think. Do two loads in a row, one drying while the next one
> >> >> >> washes. Whoops, melted socket.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Perhaps you are right - but I've never seen or heard of such a meltdown.
> >> >> I have, but it was two of each on an extension strip. Seems the strip was weaker than the 13A fuse. I gave the irritated teacher two new strips, one much longer to plug in the other side of the room. One washer and one dryer seemed to manage together.
> >> >
> >> > I have a LG washer dryer and it says in the instructions NOT to use it from an extention strip.
> >> > Which might seema bit odd but I'm guessing it's because some idiot would and plug a kettle, toaster and fan heater into the same strip.
> >> I see all sorts of weird stuff like that. My dad's log splitter is 2kW (might be 2.5) and says not to use on an extension cord over 5m. I have a 50m cord that says 13A (just over 3kW), so I don't see the problem.
> >
> > Thought you knew about physics, it''s a coil and due to induction( sort of eddy currents, resisyance/impedance) and the like it is more likely to heat up and retain that heat than a single lengh of cable.
> It didn't mention coils, it mentioned length of extension. And most long leads are coiled and the lengh would still have a resistance whether coiled or not.

And then there's the extra contact resistance, as you'd get an idiot saying but my extention cord was only 1 meter but I used 5 of them.

> >> Unless they want to lessen the risk of tripping over it? It's running on a 10m cord half unwound attached to a 10m cord fully unwound which is already there for a freezer. I've split about 50 1-tonne bags of logs with it and it works fine. Motorised hydraulics is fun.
> >
> > I doubt it's on for very long periods continiously that is.
> Indeed, no problems at all. Probably 50% duty cycle while I do a barrow load, then the same time resting. So 50% for half the time is 25% overall. And I presume 2.5kW is when it's pushing against the log hard, a lot of time it's not working at full torque.

Yes if you know what your doing and understand things, but it's those that don't understand is when H&S and warning are most useful.

> >> >> >>>>> I've got one of those circuit breakers. It trips now and again when my
> >> >> >>>>> wife is doing the ironing.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> The earth leakage type or the overload type?
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Sadly, I have no idea. :-(
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Can you tell from a picture? https://ibb.co/nckJpXw
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Yes I can tell. The large one on the right is the earth leakage, to
> >> >> >> prevent shocks. It trips if 30mA or more is not accounted for (it
> >> >> >> compares live to neutral and if any is missing it must have gone to
> >> >> >> earth, possibly through you, so it trips). Unfortunately you have the
> >> >> >> cheap setup with only one of them, so the whole house will go off [1].
> >> >> >> It also functions as a 100A limiter for the whole house, which should
> >> >> >> trip before the 100A electricity board fuse by your meter does, if you
> >> >> >> were to use that much, or something shorted inside the box, like a wire
> >> >> >> coming loose.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It's the large, main breaker, is the one that trips with the iron.. The
> >> >> > small one's don't ever seem to need resetting!
> >> >> Seems your iron has a loose wire and is leaking power to earth. Or through your wife.
> >> >
> >> > If it's an old iron could be that the flex has twisted somewhere and worn internally
> >> > and a strange of the live wire comes into contact with earth.
> >> > Also I've seen on old appliences that a ON neon is connected between live and earth
> >> > and that can trigger a cutout, even seen one on a PSU where one side of the neon was connected to Live and the other to the metal case of the PSU
> >> > which was earthed.
> >> Some of the lighting in my house uses earth instead of neutral because it was more convenient to connect to that. Just aswell I only have fuses.
> >
> > Yes I had to re-wire the old PSUs in a school because of that.
> Or just get rid of the namby pamby breakers.

Be difficult after spending many thousands on upgrading the electrics.

> I changed some breakers to less sensitive ones - the ones that are somehow ok for kids in their homes but illegal for kids in a school. They somehow become more sensitive when they're at school.

Not heard that one I'd say it's down to possible sueing if a kid or adult gets injured or killed.

> >> They're the same thing anyway, there are only 2 conductors coming into my house.
> >
> > there's a reason why the third wire is called Earth.
> Yankee pricks call it ground.

I guess we should be thankful they don;t call it the first floor as they do with buildings.

> > Just think of teh cost of wiring if it needed to be connected to the moon or even Mars !
> Mine is not connected to earth here, it's connected to the transformer ('s earth). You'd think they could just run the 240V cable then use a spike at each house.
> >> >> >> The others are just limiters and work exactly like fuses, to stop you
> >> >> >> using more than 32A on the socket circuit for example,to prevent a
> >> >> >> fire. I'm assuming the 4th from the left (downstairs power) is what
> >> >> >> tripped when the iron was used, which means you have a very dodgy iron
> >> >> >> exceeding 32 amps when it's meant to use about 8.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > No, as I said above, it's the main breaker which trips!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> [1] The fancy ones have earth leakage built into every breaker, so if
> >> >> >> you get a shock you only trip that one circuit and the lights don't go
> >> >> >> off, which is precisely what you don't want when up a ladder!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Understood - but I didn't choose it!
> >> >> I have fuses :-)
> >> >
> >> > I do too and thinking of updating
> >> Why bother? You'll just earn yourself nuisance trips.
> >
> > When selling and moving on it's a good plus-point for new buiyers, I might even have to wash the curtains.
> People don't give a fuck about things like that. They know it will cost them nothing compared to the price of the house if they want to change it.

Dependds who's buying

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

<op.1mox8nl1mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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Subject: Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Tue, 24 May 2022 21:06 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 13:41:51 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 00:00:21 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 14:55:53 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Wednesday, 4 May 2022 at 10:32:48 UTC+1, David Brooks wrote:
>> >> On 04/05/2022 09:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> > On Wed, 04 May 2022 09:09:19 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 04/05/2022 08:18, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 07:49:59 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> It's not for me to tell a Physics graduate that there's a fire-risk in
>> >> >>>> 13 Amp plugs melting! Remember that ALL your efforts will be wasted if
>> >> >>>> your house burns down around your hardware!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> It has a fuse. Those wonderful things before the namby pamby circuit
>> >> >>> breakers that trip if a fly lands on something.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Knowing you, you might have replaced the fuse with a nail!
>> >> >
>> >> > Funnily enough, I'm pro-fuse. I'm not bothered about getting a shock,
>> >> > but I don't want something catching fire. It's amazing how many things
>> >> > aren't protected properly. For example did you know a twin UK socket is
>> >> > not rated to 26 amps? Most (apart from MK) are rated to 20 amps. So if
>> >> > you max out both of them, things melt! I don't remember seeing a
>> >> > warning on the front not to use both fully at the same time.
>> >> No, I didn't know that ..... but few things one 'plugs in' in a home use
>> >> 13 Amps!
>> >
>> > That's partly the point an electric 3 bar fire or a washing machine in dryer mode
>> > and a 3kw electric kettle. But these aren't always close enough and used at the same time
>> > on a double outlet.
>> "Probably won't happen" is no reason to put a potential fire in your house.
>
> Depends how big you see this potential,

In this age of health and softy at the slightest possibility, this really surprises me.

> this is probabbly why most houses don't have enough sockets

Nah, that's stupidity or cost cutting. This house has tonnes in the kitchen but fuck all elsewhere. But I think the previous owner added some. Maybe she liked to cook.

> and people have to use extention leads of which the vast majority have 3 extra sockets to use some have more.

Have you tried to buy one recently, they've become very expensive for no reason.

>> > Not many things are used continuoisly or for a long period at 13 amps.
>> > I doubt a washing maching would pull 13 amps and the heater would turn off and on anyway.
>> > A kettle would but wouldn't be on for more than 10mins.
>> People plug in fanheaters everywhere.
>
> So, but I doubt more than 2 or 3 are running at the same time.

2 is enough to overload a 20A double socket.

Oops flood, etc, let's dry the carpet. Two 3kW fanheaters in a double socket running all day.

>> >> >> I've got one of those circuit breakers. It trips now and again when my
>> >> >> wife is doing the ironing.
>> >> >
>> >> > The earth leakage type or the overload type?
>> >> Sadly, I have no idea. :-(
>> >>
>> >> Can you tell from a picture? https://ibb.co/nckJpXw
>> >
>> > Should be some intials like RCCB or something and then check wiki.
>> > In a correctly wired property they should have the correct one fitted to the fuse box.
>> Is this acceptable to you?
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wuhy3rnur87yrz9/s-l1600.jpg?dl=0
>
> Looks a bit risky what would happen if you plugged 5 fan heaters in.
> Strange that so many are off too.

It's not connected yet. I just bought it for a tenner on Ebay.

And in answer to your question, they would simply trip.

>> >> > The earth leakage ones
>> >> > hate microwave ovens, which leak current to earth on purpose. I
>> >> > disconnected the earth to mine when I saw a parrot trying to chew the
>> >> > flex. I removed the earth so the current couldn't go from the wire in
>> >> > her beak through her heart to the earthed microwave chassis under her
>> >> > feet [1]. But now when I run the microwave I get a tingle if I touch
>> >> > it. So clearly something is meant to go to earth. At work, a microwave
>> >> > kept tripping an earth leakage breaker, but they'd economised and only
>> >> > put in one for the whole corridor of 100 offices. That caused an
>> >> > argument or two.
>> >> >
>> >> > [1] Earthing things was a very very dangerous idea.
>> >
>> > Not by those that know what they are doing.
>> And you expect a woman in the kitchen to know about earths?
>> > >Consider you touch
>> >> > a live wire for some reason - damaged flex, whatever. Normally you'd
>> >> > get a slight tingle or not even feel it.
>> >
>> > Depending on how it is dameged.
>> Doesn't matter, the point is there is a live wire to touch. Best not to have an earth to go with it.
> Best if the earth touches the live wire before a person does that's the point.

But if the live wire is the kettle cord, it doesn't have much chance of that.

>> >> But now imagine your knee is
>> >> > touching an earthed washing machine. 240V on your hand, 0V on your
>> >> > knee, with the rather vital heart halfway between. Death. From a
>> >> > safety device.
>> >> Oh! Shiver me timbers!
>> >
>> > But if the washing machine was earthed it would blow the fuse or whatever device was in the consumer box that's the point.
>> > That is why earthing a washing machine is a good idea same for most appliances.
>> Not if the bare live wasn't touching the machine. A damaged flex is likely in a kitchen. Touch that and the earthed machine and you get a lot of current through you.
> A damaged flex is likely to short yhe live to the earth blowing the fuse or cutout that's the point.

Not if only the live is exposed. Usually only one wire gets bared.

Happened to me with a lawnmower. Who earthed my garden?

>> >> >>> Hey, you're here at 8 in the morning! I got up at 11:30pm, so I'm not
>> >> >>> sure what time this is for me. I'll be going to bed late afternoon.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I was watch-keeping for a large part of my working life. It's no big
>> >> >> shakes WHEN one sleeps, but sleep IS necessary!
>> >> >
>> >> > I've removed myself from the 24 hour religion of life.
>> >
>> > Most humans have this 24 hour cycle even animals do, this is why jet lag happens.
>> Doesn't work with indoor lighting.
>
> It does, but like everything else it can be overruled to some extent.

To a lot of extent, the stats show most people don't stick to 24 hours, that's why we need alarm clocks and hate getting up in the morning.

>> >> I get up when
>> >> > ready, and go to sleep when tired, whenever that may be.
>> >
>> > Most people do but it's the define ready is what's important.
>> Is English please?
>
> I went to bed just after

Sounds like your timing is worse than mine.

>> >> > The congestion is *because* we're driving slowly!
>> >> That may well be true at times. At other times, there are too many
>> >> vehicles on the road.
>> >
>> > Too many people wanting to go from A-B
>> If they went twice as fast, twice as many cars could do so.
>
> Doesn;t work like that. As people have to stop a turn and slow down.

WTF? You can turn faster too. I often overtake people on roundabouts.

> Then more people would start traveling.

Gypsies?

>> >> > I was once chased to my house by a neighbour who objected to me
>> >> > overtaking his wife. She was going 20 in a 30 zone because of roadworks
>> >> > signs. For another road. He claimed it was because of the detour and
>> >> > more people using our road that our road had a limit. What a crazy idea
>> >> > - if you have more things to do, you have to do them faster!
>> >
>> > But does that mean you have to travel faster.
>> > I doubt most peolpe on a typivcal school run or to go to the loca supermarket would save much time
>> > in a car capable of doing 200MHP over one capable of doing 70MPH
>> No, but they would do well to go 40 instead of 20.
>
> Facts show that doesn't work too well.


Click here to read the complete article
Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

<op.1moybez0mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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Subject: Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Tue, 24 May 2022 21:07 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 22:23:04 +0100, geoff <geoff@nospamgeoffwood.org> wrote:

> On 17/05/2022 9:03 am, geoff wrote:
>> On 17/05/2022 12:41 am, Whisky-dave wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Depends how big you see this potential, this is probabbly why most
>>> houses don't have enough sockets
>>> and people have to use extention leads of which the vast majority have
>>> 3 extra sockets to use some have more.
>>
>> He he he. When I built my house I ensured that a wall-socket (mostly
>> double) was pretty much within two or three steps from anywhere.
>>
>> Still need power strips in several 'intense' areas such as AV setup,
>> computer 'suite', and music room.
>>
>> geoff
>
> Sorry, can't find in the thread where somebody was whinging about
> washing machine stating not to run off a power-strip.

It was me and it was a log splitter.

> This is because of extra contact resistance causing heat/burning, and
> potentially (ha ha) poor grounding/earthing.

No, the cord is rated to 13A. The log splitter uses less than that.

> They are also of very variable quality and can degenerate (contacts wear
> or become less tight) with use. Many cheap ones are extremely crappy to
> start off with !

I found that with a triple adapter cube, running only 1kW.

> All this doubly problematical in 110/120v countries, where currents
> involved are around double those of 220/230/240v countries.

That's the country's fault for using girly voltages.

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Tue, 24 May 2022 21:09 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 13:07:33 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, 16 May 2022 at 22:23:18 UTC+1, geoff wrote:
>> On 17/05/2022 9:03 am, geoff wrote:
>> > On 17/05/2022 12:41 am, Whisky-dave wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Depends how big you see this potential, this is probabbly why most
>> >> houses don't have enough sockets
>> >> and people have to use extention leads of which the vast majority have
>> >> 3 extra sockets to use some have more.
>> >
>> > He he he. When I built my house I ensured that a wall-socket (mostly
>> > double) was pretty much within two or three steps from anywhere.
>> >
>> > Still need power strips in several 'intense' areas such as AV setup,
>> > computer 'suite', and music room.
>> >
>> > geoff
>> Sorry, can't find in the thread where somebody was whinging about
>> washing machine stating not to run off a power-strip.
>
> It was me, but not whinging just stating what was in the instructions,
> and it was a 9kg load washer dryer.

Bollocks, it was my dad's log splitter.

>> This is because of extra contact resistance causing heat/burning, and
>> potentially (ha ha) poor grounding/earthing.
>>
>> They are also of very variable quality and can degenerate (contacts wear
>> or become less tight) with use. Many cheap ones are extremely crappy to
>> start off with !
>
> yes I've noticed that about some really cheap ones. I have a few where even the rocker switch
> doesn;t always swith off the individual socket like it should, but I only use these ones for chargers
> cerainly wouldn't put a heater, kettle or anyhting about about 1kw on it.

I have an expensive professional strip stolen from a network cabinet and the switch died on that. Ok I was running it at 4kW....

> It's also to clear the washing machine manufacture if a fire is caused by the washing machine.
> If you've not followed the instructions then the warrenty can also be void and insurance.

This blame bullshit should have stayed in childish America.

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

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Subject: Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)
From: whisky.d...@gmail.com (Whisky-dave)
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 by: Whisky-dave - Thu, 26 May 2022 08:45 UTC

On Tuesday, 24 May 2022 at 22:09:37 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 13:07:33 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Monday, 16 May 2022 at 22:23:18 UTC+1, geoff wrote:
> >> On 17/05/2022 9:03 am, geoff wrote:
> >> > On 17/05/2022 12:41 am, Whisky-dave wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Depends how big you see this potential, this is probabbly why most
> >> >> houses don't have enough sockets
> >> >> and people have to use extention leads of which the vast majority have
> >> >> 3 extra sockets to use some have more.
> >> >
> >> > He he he. When I built my house I ensured that a wall-socket (mostly
> >> > double) was pretty much within two or three steps from anywhere.
> >> >
> >> > Still need power strips in several 'intense' areas such as AV setup,
> >> > computer 'suite', and music room.
> >> >
> >> > geoff
> >> Sorry, can't find in the thread where somebody was whinging about
> >> washing machine stating not to run off a power-strip.
> >
> > It was me, but not whinging just stating what was in the instructions,
> > and it was a 9kg load washer dryer.
> Bollocks, it was my dad's log splitter.

why would you not use a log splitter on an extention lead then.
Why are a lot of professional power tolls run on 110V ?

> >> This is because of extra contact resistance causing heat/burning, and
> >> potentially (ha ha) poor grounding/earthing.
> >>
> >> They are also of very variable quality and can degenerate (contacts wear
> >> or become less tight) with use. Many cheap ones are extremely crappy to
> >> start off with !
> >
> > yes I've noticed that about some really cheap ones. I have a few where even the rocker switch
> > doesn;t always swith off the individual socket like it should, but I only use these ones for chargers
> > cerainly wouldn't put a heater, kettle or anyhting about about 1kw on it.
> I have an expensive professional strip stolen from a network cabinet and the switch died on that. Ok I was running it at 4kW....

Wonder what made it expensive maybe the cable contained thick copper strands rather than some cheap £1 shop
that I heard use aluminium.

> > It's also to clear the washing machine manufacture if a fire is caused by the washing machine.
> > If you've not followed the instructions then the warrenty can also be void and insurance.
> This blame bullshit should have stayed in childish America.

AS we know they even allow kids to buy guns in america.

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Thu, 26 May 2022 15:58 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 14:49:43 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 02:05:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 May 2022 14:01:01 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Thursday, 5 May 2022 at 12:24:55 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 04 May 2022 23:16:42 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On 04/05/2022 11:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, 04 May 2022 10:32:40 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> On 04/05/2022 09:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >>>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 09:09:19 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
>> >> >>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>> On 04/05/2022 08:18, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> Hey, you're here at 8 in the morning! I got up at 11:30pm, so I'm not
>> >> >>>>>> sure what time this is for me. I'll be going to bed late afternoon.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I was watch-keeping for a large part of my working life. It's no big
>> >> >>>>> shakes WHEN one sleeps, but sleep IS necessary!
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I've removed myself from the 24 hour religion of life. I get up when
>> >> >>>> ready, and go to sleep when tired, whenever that may be.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> A bit like being retired - like me!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'm 46 and have decided to retire now. I can get my pension in 9 years.
>> >> >
>> >> > I used to sell pension plans. How will you qualify for your at the age
>> >> > of just 55?
>> >> I thought it was a law. Maybe it's because mine are government plans. 55 with no reason given, even lower if you can prove you're ill.
>> >
>> > Yes I think that is correct but you can lose quite a bit by taking it so early .
>> > Normally it's about 60 is reasonable.
>> I haven't checked the amounts, but I assume they assume you will die at a certain age. So if you're taking it over twice as many years, they halve the amount (with adjustments for interest and inflation etc).
>
> Yes and why some of my slightly younger friends retirment date is 67 or 68

That was simply a stupid change in the law to make people work longer despite there being more people than jobs already.

> They use life expectance to calculate such things, same problem the NHS has.

How does that change my point? If I take my pension over twice the number of years, I get half the amount per year, I lose nothing, they lose nothing.

>> >> >>>>>>> I've now installed it on my main computer and will put it on my other
>> >> >>>>>>> one shortly. I've also publicised the programme on my Facebook
>> >> >>>>>>> timeline
>> >> >>>>>>> and the group which I run.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Excellent, thank you. People aren't flocking to it so much now covid
>> >> >>>>>> research has declined. People don't seem to care about cancer, which
>> >> >>>>>> kills far more.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Pay close attention to when you complete the tasks and the "timeout" -
>> >> >>>>>> it has a habit of giving slower computers stuff it can't do in
>> >> >>>>>> time. If
>> >> >>>>>> it passes the timeout it's not the end of the world, but if it gets to
>> >> >>>>>> the expiration date the task has been a waste of time.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Thanks for the warning. I didn't like the way it started to trigger my
>> >> >>>>> cooling fans so have 'turned it down' now.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I doubt you'll complete much in time if it's not maxed out. Fans are
>> >> >>>> meant to spin. Most of my fans run at 75% speed.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Understood. Thanks.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> To reduce fan speed, ensure they're dust free for better cooling, a
>> >> >> sharp blow from your mouth into it will shift it. Be ready to inhale a
>> >> >> lot of dust, or hold the end of a running hoover hose nearby!
>> >> >
>> >> > Have you ever tried blowing into a 27 inch Apple iMac?!!!
>> >> I wouldn't be seen dead near one, so no.
>> >
>> > This boy obviously has no sense of style ;-)
>> A computer is a functional item, not a fucking ornament.
>
> It can be both. Why buy an ugly, noisy, biege box .

Do you buy a certain colour of fridge freezer too? Are you female?

>> >> > We could connect them together with strong tow bars and operate them
>> >> > like a train!
>> >> Volvo suggested with their very close speed matching radars they were safer. An impact would be reduced a lot, because you're only a foot away, so you're almost a part of the car in front.
>> >
>> > That doesn't really much much sense if you take into account breaking distances.
>> What?! If you're 1 foot behind the next car, and it jams it's brakes on, you will hit it with a closing speed of about 2mph and do no damage.
> What even if yuo're doing 60MPH, I doubt it.

How much do you think a car would slow from 60mph in 1 foot?

>> This will make you go "shit!" and jam on your brakes too.
> Bit late them with thinking distances let alone with reaction timnes.

Reaction times in the highway code are about 3 times longer than any normal person.

>> > I know in F1 cars can be 6 inches apart and be doing 200MPH but they have really good brakes and drivers.
>> > I wouldn't have thought a couple of volvos doing a ~70 MPH and if one hit the brakes the other could stop within 2 metre social distancing.
>> You don't have to stop in 2m, you have to react in 2m.
>
> Still takes a distance to come to a stop.

But the car in front also takes some distance. The only difference between the car in front and the car behind is the point in time the brakes were pressed. So just reaction time.

>> Driverless boys?! No no, they must be tied up and given strict instructions.
>
> You back in fantasy mode or the french version of DIY.

The French are less prudish than the Brits and therefore more sensible.

>> >> >>>> I was once chased to my house by a neighbour who objected to me
>> >> >>>> overtaking his wife. She was going 20 in a 30 zone because of roadworks
>> >> >>>> signs. For another road. He claimed it was because of the detour and
>> >> >>>> more people using our road that our road had a limit. What a crazy idea
>> >> >>>> - if you have more things to do, you have to do them faster!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Of course. The real answer is to do LESS things! ;-)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And delegate?
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes, that too!
>> >> >
>> >> > Remember the adage that I was taught.
>> >> >
>> >> > 'Tis the duty of a wealthy man to enlist the services of an artisan.
>> >> >
>> >> > In truth though:-
>> >> >
>> >> > Lord Finchley tried to mend the Electric Light
>> >> > Himself. It struck him dead: And serve him right!
>> >> > It is the business of the wealthy man
>> >> > To give employment to the artisan.
>> >> >
>> >> > Hilaire Belloc
>> >> This is why people shouldn't grumble about rich folk, as they spend that money much faster than anyone else. The moaners should just go work for them, or make things they want to buy.
>> >
>> > For me it depends on how they get rich. Don't really want to bring back slavery
>> I do. I'd love to have someone else doing things for me, preferably naked.
>
> Back to your chimney boys & mary poppins fantasies are we ;-)

I never said they had to be male.


Click here to read the complete article
Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

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Subject: Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)
From: whisky.d...@gmail.com (Whisky-dave)
Injection-Date: Mon, 30 May 2022 09:41:17 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: Whisky-dave - Mon, 30 May 2022 09:41 UTC

On Thursday, 26 May 2022 at 16:58:25 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 14:49:43 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 02:05:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Thu, 05 May 2022 14:01:01 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Thursday, 5 May 2022 at 12:24:55 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 04 May 2022 23:16:42 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On 04/05/2022 11:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> >> On Wed, 04 May 2022 10:32:40 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> On 04/05/2022 09:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> >>>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 09:09:19 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
> >> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>> On 04/05/2022 08:18, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>> Hey, you're here at 8 in the morning! I got up at 11:30pm, so I'm not
> >> >> >>>>>> sure what time this is for me. I'll be going to bed late afternoon.
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>> I was watch-keeping for a large part of my working life. It's no big
> >> >> >>>>> shakes WHEN one sleeps, but sleep IS necessary!
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> I've removed myself from the 24 hour religion of life. I get up when
> >> >> >>>> ready, and go to sleep when tired, whenever that may be.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> A bit like being retired - like me!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I'm 46 and have decided to retire now. I can get my pension in 9 years.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I used to sell pension plans. How will you qualify for your at the age
> >> >> > of just 55?
> >> >> I thought it was a law. Maybe it's because mine are government plans. 55 with no reason given, even lower if you can prove you're ill.
> >> >
> >> > Yes I think that is correct but you can lose quite a bit by taking it so early .
> >> > Normally it's about 60 is reasonable.
> >> I haven't checked the amounts, but I assume they assume you will die at a certain age. So if you're taking it over twice as many years, they halve the amount (with adjustments for interest and inflation etc).
> >
> > Yes and why some of my slightly younger friends retirment date is 67 or 68
> That was simply a stupid change in the law to make people work longer despite there being more people than jobs already.

That wasn't the reason it is because pensions not being able to last until death due to the average life expectancy increasing over the years.

> > They use life expectance to calculate such things, same problem the NHS has.
> How does that change my point? If I take my pension over twice the number of years, I get half the amount per year, I lose nothing, they lose nothing.

But if you live longer than expected then you draw more money than you were expecting.
It's very simialr in inflation.

> >> >> >>>>>>> I've now installed it on my main computer and will put it on my other
> >> >> >>>>>>> one shortly. I've also publicised the programme on my Facebook
> >> >> >>>>>>> timeline
> >> >> >>>>>>> and the group which I run.
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>> Excellent, thank you. People aren't flocking to it so much now covid
> >> >> >>>>>> research has declined. People don't seem to care about cancer, which
> >> >> >>>>>> kills far more.
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>> Pay close attention to when you complete the tasks and the "timeout" -
> >> >> >>>>>> it has a habit of giving slower computers stuff it can't do in
> >> >> >>>>>> time. If
> >> >> >>>>>> it passes the timeout it's not the end of the world, but if it gets to
> >> >> >>>>>> the expiration date the task has been a waste of time.
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>> Thanks for the warning. I didn't like the way it started to trigger my
> >> >> >>>>> cooling fans so have 'turned it down' now.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> I doubt you'll complete much in time if it's not maxed out. Fans are
> >> >> >>>> meant to spin. Most of my fans run at 75% speed.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Understood. Thanks.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> To reduce fan speed, ensure they're dust free for better cooling, a
> >> >> >> sharp blow from your mouth into it will shift it. Be ready to inhale a
> >> >> >> lot of dust, or hold the end of a running hoover hose nearby!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Have you ever tried blowing into a 27 inch Apple iMac?!!!
> >> >> I wouldn't be seen dead near one, so no.
> >> >
> >> > This boy obviously has no sense of style ;-)
> >> A computer is a functional item, not a fucking ornament.
> >
> > It can be both. Why buy an ugly, noisy, biege box .
> Do you buy a certain colour of fridge freezer too? Are you female?

No more than I would with a car or bike or even clothes.

> >> >> > We could connect them together with strong tow bars and operate them
> >> >> > like a train!
> >> >> Volvo suggested with their very close speed matching radars they were safer. An impact would be reduced a lot, because you're only a foot away, so you're almost a part of the car in front.
> >> >
> >> > That doesn't really much much sense if you take into account breaking distances.
> >> What?! If you're 1 foot behind the next car, and it jams it's brakes on, you will hit it with a closing speed of about 2mph and do no damage.
> > What even if yuo're doing 60MPH, I doubt it.
> How much do you think a car would slow from 60mph in 1 foot?

not by much and that is the problem.

> >> This will make you go "shit!" and jam on your brakes too.
> > Bit late them with thinking distances let alone with reaction timnes.
> Reaction times in the highway code are about 3 times longer than any normal person.

I wonder how long it takes to put down the mobile phone or finish reading the latest post before looking up
and colliding with a stationary vehicle.
The local road was closed this morning as a car had driven into a house.
The house had been there fopr about 100 years so not sure what excuse the driver
might have for not seeing it and being able to stop.

> >> > I know in F1 cars can be 6 inches apart and be doing 200MPH but they have really good brakes and drivers.
> >> > I wouldn't have thought a couple of volvos doing a ~70 MPH and if one hit the brakes the other could stop within 2 metre social distancing.
> >> You don't have to stop in 2m, you have to react in 2m.
> >
> > Still takes a distance to come to a stop.
> But the car in front also takes some distance. The only difference between the car in front and the car behind is the point in time the brakes were pressed. So just reaction time.

even if reaction time is instantanous no car is able to stop instantanously.

> >> Driverless boys?! No no, they must be tied up and given strict instructions.
> >
> > You back in fantasy mode or the french version of DIY.
> The French are less prudish than the Brits and therefore more sensible.

No I had 2 french GF and one french flatmate they can be quite arrogant.
I think it is in their nature, you only have to know what happend regarding whatever at cup final
this weekend .

> >> >> >>>> I was once chased to my house by a neighbour who objected to me
> >> >> >>>> overtaking his wife. She was going 20 in a 30 zone because of roadworks
> >> >> >>>> signs. For another road. He claimed it was because of the detour and
> >> >> >>>> more people using our road that our road had a limit. What a crazy idea
> >> >> >>>> - if you have more things to do, you have to do them faster!
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Of course. The real answer is to do LESS things! ;-)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> And delegate?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Yes, that too!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Remember the adage that I was taught.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 'Tis the duty of a wealthy man to enlist the services of an artisan.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > In truth though:-
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Lord Finchley tried to mend the Electric Light
> >> >> > Himself. It struck him dead: And serve him right!
> >> >> > It is the business of the wealthy man
> >> >> > To give employment to the artisan.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hilaire Belloc
> >> >> This is why people shouldn't grumble about rich folk, as they spend that money much faster than anyone else. The moaners should just go work for them, or make things they want to buy.
> >> >
> >> > For me it depends on how they get rich. Don't really want to bring back slavery
> >> I do. I'd love to have someone else doing things for me, preferably naked.
> >
> > Back to your chimney boys & mary poppins fantasies are we ;-)
> I never said they had to be male.


Click here to read the complete article
Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

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Subject: Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Tue, 31 May 2022 01:40 UTC

On Thu, 26 May 2022 09:45:23 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, 24 May 2022 at 22:09:37 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 13:07:33 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Monday, 16 May 2022 at 22:23:18 UTC+1, geoff wrote:
>> >> On 17/05/2022 9:03 am, geoff wrote:
>> >> > On 17/05/2022 12:41 am, Whisky-dave wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Depends how big you see this potential, this is probabbly why most
>> >> >> houses don't have enough sockets
>> >> >> and people have to use extention leads of which the vast majority have
>> >> >> 3 extra sockets to use some have more.
>> >> >
>> >> > He he he. When I built my house I ensured that a wall-socket (mostly
>> >> > double) was pretty much within two or three steps from anywhere.
>> >> >
>> >> > Still need power strips in several 'intense' areas such as AV setup,
>> >> > computer 'suite', and music room.
>> >> >
>> >> > geoff
>> >> Sorry, can't find in the thread where somebody was whinging about
>> >> washing machine stating not to run off a power-strip.
>> >
>> > It was me, but not whinging just stating what was in the instructions,
>> > and it was a 9kg load washer dryer.
>> Bollocks, it was my dad's log splitter.
>
> why would you not use a log splitter on an extention lead then.

No idea, it worked fine. The instructions said not to.

> Why are a lot of professional power tolls run on 110V ?

Safety from electrocution. They're also usually used through an isolating transformer, to negate the dangers of earth. That's the "safe" earth people attach to all their appliances which is actually fucking dangerous as it completes the circuit.

>> >> This is because of extra contact resistance causing heat/burning, and
>> >> potentially (ha ha) poor grounding/earthing.
>> >>
>> >> They are also of very variable quality and can degenerate (contacts wear
>> >> or become less tight) with use. Many cheap ones are extremely crappy to
>> >> start off with !
>> >
>> > yes I've noticed that about some really cheap ones. I have a few where even the rocker switch
>> > doesn;t always swith off the individual socket like it should, but I only use these ones for chargers
>> > cerainly wouldn't put a heater, kettle or anyhting about about 1kw on it.
>> I have an expensive professional strip stolen from a network cabinet and the switch died on that. Ok I was running it at 4kW....
>
> Wonder what made it expensive maybe the cable contained thick copper strands rather than some cheap £1 shop
> that I heard use aluminium.

Aluminium was only cheaper for a short time in the long distant past, which is why some phone cables are aluminium, which makes them shit for broadband.

If you want to see cheap, do what I did and buy an 18650 battery charger for 99p including postage from China. The plug actually had PLASTIC pins, PAINTED to conduct! It worked though, until the exceedingly thin wire through a bit of tugging through normal use shorted out. When I plugged it in the other day there was a big flash as the very thin wire evaporated. Oh well it charges batteries ok, I just need to put a wire and plug on it.

>> > It's also to clear the washing machine manufacture if a fire is caused by the washing machine.
>> > If you've not followed the instructions then the warrenty can also be void and insurance.
>> This blame bullshit should have stayed in childish America.
>
> AS we know they even allow kids to buy guns in america.

All Americans have the mental age of kids.

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

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Subject: Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)
From: whisky.d...@gmail.com (Whisky-dave)
Injection-Date: Tue, 31 May 2022 11:19:33 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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 by: Whisky-dave - Tue, 31 May 2022 11:19 UTC

On Tuesday, 31 May 2022 at 02:40:40 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Thu, 26 May 2022 09:45:23 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, 24 May 2022 at 22:09:37 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Tue, 17 May 2022 13:07:33 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Monday, 16 May 2022 at 22:23:18 UTC+1, geoff wrote:
> >> >> On 17/05/2022 9:03 am, geoff wrote:
> >> >> > On 17/05/2022 12:41 am, Whisky-dave wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Depends how big you see this potential, this is probabbly why most
> >> >> >> houses don't have enough sockets
> >> >> >> and people have to use extention leads of which the vast majority have
> >> >> >> 3 extra sockets to use some have more.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > He he he. When I built my house I ensured that a wall-socket (mostly
> >> >> > double) was pretty much within two or three steps from anywhere.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Still need power strips in several 'intense' areas such as AV setup,
> >> >> > computer 'suite', and music room.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > geoff
> >> >> Sorry, can't find in the thread where somebody was whinging about
> >> >> washing machine stating not to run off a power-strip.
> >> >
> >> > It was me, but not whinging just stating what was in the instructions,
> >> > and it was a 9kg load washer dryer.
> >> Bollocks, it was my dad's log splitter.
> >
> > why would you not use a log splitter on an extention lead then.
> No idea, it worked fine. The instructions said not to.

I'd expect it to work OK and my washer dryer works fine on an expention lead too.
I think most things I have do. My garden strimmer did too but I got a bit fed up with
having to mak sure I didn;t fall over the lead or cut it, or get it tangled up
that I bought a cheap battery trimmer that does pretty much the same job and now
I don't have to keep skipping over a lead or have to worry about the plug coming out of any socket.

If I bought a log splitter I'd most likely go for a battery one so wouldn't have the lead problem.

> > Why are a lot of professional power tolls run on 110V ?
> Safety from electrocution. They're also usually used through an isolating transformer, to negate the dangers of earth. That's the "safe" earth people attach to all their appliances which is actually fucking dangerous as it completes the circuit.

that's the idea and it blows the fuse removing the dangerous volts from the case of the device they'll you'll be touching.
That is alos why most devices are earthed. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it wrong.

But remmeber it's the sustained current that kills not the voltage.
You're more likely to be killed by holding on to a 110V than from a 230V that breaks a connection via a fuse or breaker.

> >> >> This is because of extra contact resistance causing heat/burning, and
> >> >> potentially (ha ha) poor grounding/earthing.
> >> >>
> >> >> They are also of very variable quality and can degenerate (contacts wear
> >> >> or become less tight) with use. Many cheap ones are extremely crappy to
> >> >> start off with !
> >> >
> >> > yes I've noticed that about some really cheap ones. I have a few where even the rocker switch
> >> > doesn;t always swith off the individual socket like it should, but I only use these ones for chargers
> >> > cerainly wouldn't put a heater, kettle or anyhting about about 1kw on it.
> >> I have an expensive professional strip stolen from a network cabinet and the switch died on that. Ok I was running it at 4kW....
> >
> > Wonder what made it expensive maybe the cable contained thick copper strands rather than some cheap £1 shop
> > that I heard use aluminium.
> Aluminium was only cheaper for a short time in the long distant past, which is why some phone cables are aluminium, which makes them shit for broadband.

and shit for charging too.
even thin copper isn't best for charging, the longer the cable the more shitty it usually is unless.
Which is why almost any cable as a lenght limit including mains and USB.

>
> If you want to see cheap, do what I did and buy an 18650 battery charger for 99p including postage from China. The plug actually had PLASTIC pins, PAINTED to conduct! It worked though, until the exceedingly thin wire through a bit of tugging through normal use shorted out. When I plugged it in the other day there was a big flash as the very thin wire evaporated. Oh well it charges batteries ok, I just need to put a wire and plug on it.

Wate money on expensive wire, just use the silver foil from kit-kat wrappers.
If it's good enough for junkies, instead of buying expensive bacofoil......

> >> > It's also to clear the washing machine manufacture if a fire is caused by the washing machine.
> >> > If you've not followed the instructions then the warrenty can also be void and insurance.
> >> This blame bullshit should have stayed in childish America.
> >
> > AS we know they even allow kids to buy guns in america.
> All Americans have the mental age of kids.

well most do, not quite all, then ther;es trump supporters which might be able to win and IQ contest
against the contents of a cat littler tray btu I wouldn't bet on it.

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

<op.1m2enfg0mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Wed, 1 Jun 2022 03:29 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 14:49:43 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 02:05:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 May 2022 14:01:01 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Thursday, 5 May 2022 at 12:24:55 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 04 May 2022 23:16:42 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > You really are nuts!
>> >> What do you use your handbrake for? It really does serve no purpose.
>> >
>> > I thought it's main use was for when you park on a hill.
>> It would have to be a fucking steep hill,
>
> we even have some of those in London, thought you'd have some in scotland too.

Not often I park on them. Can always turn the wheel to the kerb, instead of relying on a brake which is operated by something very similar to a bicycle brake cable!

>> I just use the gears or turn the wheels into the kerb. I did once park on a steep hill without turning the wheels to the kerb. A passerby shouted to me "your car is dancing!" It was trying to start the engine and jumping back a few inches at a time in gear.
>
> I wonder how Electric cars get around this, as I didn;t think they had gears in the same way.

Shorted motor? Or the same as an automatic petrol car, a bolt through the gearbox.

>> > Or tan attempt to make yuor car difficult to be stolen or moved
>> > without the drivers or owners permission.
>> Handbrakes are very weak, that wouldn't stop anyone. You just put the car onto a tow truck anyway.
>
> Little chance of getting a tow truck for such a thing near me, cars parked to close together.

You live in a city? Why?

> Last two breakins of cars near me where 2 BMWs one had it's steering wheel stolen and the other had the disabled parking badge stolen.

What weird things to steal!

>> >> >>>>>>>> Seems a newspaper boy was prosecuted for claiming he couldn't go
>> >> >>>>>>>> over
>> >> >>>>>>>> 16mph on his bicycle!
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> Haha! :-D
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> I've done 39mph on my mountain bike, but this was using God's force,
>> >> >>>>>> gravity.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> OY! I saw that! You capitalised god! You edited MY sentence!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Just checking to see if you are paying attention to detail! :-D
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I wasn't, but my subconscious notices everything.
>> >> >
>> >> > You are nearly as bright as me!
>> >> [titter] So what bright things have you done in your life?
>> >
>> > and was she a natural blonde or fake blonde
>> Easy to spot, they're too thick to dye their eyebrows.
>
> Not all, some dye

Never seen that.

> some shave and use eyebrow pencil.

Drawn on eyebrows look ridiculous.

> I've know some to wear coloured cotact
> lenes, one in particular has green cats eye contacts.

Those can be nice. Still don't look quite right though.

>> They look fucking stupid. It's like painting your car a different colour and forgetting one door.
>
> depends on the effect you want I guess.

Avoiding looking like a fake would be a desire surely?

>> >> >> I was once at an office xmas lunch in a restaurant, and my (slightly
>> >> >> OCD) colleague was opposite me and looked irritated. I turned round to
>> >> >> follow his gaze and saw a photo on the wall which was slightly
>> >> >> misaligned. I straightened it, and he said thank you. The other
>> >> >> colleagues were alarmed and thought we had telepathy.
>> >> >
>> >> > The greater consciousness of mankind, I call it.
>> >> In actual fact I just followed where he was looking, saw something I knew would irritated him, and corrected it.
>> >
>> > I do the same with students.
>> For example?
>
> Watch them see what they are trying to do.
> One girl that was more interested in taking selfies than doing her project, moved from one bench to another taking the glue gun with her.
> After another 10mins of posing she put her hand on the glue gun and decdied it wasn't getting warm so unplugged it and plugged it into another socket.
> Carried on posing and chatting away on her phone, after anotherb 10mins I went over towards her and asked if everything was OK, she said your glue guns doesn't work it's not heating up.
> So I showed her the rocker switch next to the socket and explained that you need to switch that on too, and in about 5mins it'll be hot enough.
> She looked really embarresed as she'd been at least 30mins in to her 2 hour allocated time and done nothing.
> But I didn't make fun of her, she know she'd did that all on her own :-)

ROTFPMSL!

>> >> We were once doing some electrical work in a classroom, and found a poster that had been drawn which said "the importance of learing". Neither of us could stop laughing for a full 5 minutes. I have to wonder if the teacher left that there as a punishment for their stupidity, or was too stupid to notice (it was the thickest teacher in the school).
>> >
>> > I've done similar things I even put a notice on the wall upside down the students were laughing , I asked them what was funny , they said because it's upside down,
>> > I said Ah so you've actually read it then , so you know I'm closed for lunch from 1-2pm, so you won't keep knocking on the door now will you.
>> I never closed for lunch. In fact lunch was the best time to fix things, when others weren't using the computers.
>
> We don't close as a lab but we aren't there when going out to get sandwhiches and I don't like students coming up to me asking for things etc
> while I'm eating,

Why not? Eating doesn't require much brainpower, might aswell get things done at the same time.

Re: Photo taken in 1977 (was - Mac drive letters?)

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Thu, 2 Jun 2022 05:23 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 13:23:58 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, 19 May 2022 at 09:10:15 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 14:49:43 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 02:05:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 05 May 2022 14:01:01 +0100, Whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Thursday, 5 May 2022 at 12:24:55 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, 04 May 2022 23:16:42 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On 04/05/2022 11:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Wed, 04 May 2022 10:32:40 +0100, David Brooks <D...@nomail.afraid.org>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> No, I didn't know that ..... but few things one 'plugs in' in a home use
>> >> >> >>> 13 Amps!
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Washing machine and tumble dryer next to each other? Quite common I
>> >> >> >> would think. Do two loads in a row, one drying while the next one
>> >> >> >> washes. Whoops, melted socket.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Perhaps you are right - but I've never seen or heard of such a meltdown.
>> >> >> I have, but it was two of each on an extension strip. Seems the strip was weaker than the 13A fuse. I gave the irritated teacher two new strips, one much longer to plug in the other side of the room. One washer and one dryer seemed to manage together.
>> >> >
>> >> > I have a LG washer dryer and it says in the instructions NOT to use it from an extention strip.
>> >> > Which might seema bit odd but I'm guessing it's because some idiot would and plug a kettle, toaster and fan heater into the same strip.
>> >> I see all sorts of weird stuff like that. My dad's log splitter is 2kW (might be 2.5) and says not to use on an extension cord over 5m. I have a 50m cord that says 13A (just over 3kW), so I don't see the problem.
>> >
>> > Thought you knew about physics, it''s a coil and due to induction( sort of eddy currents, resisyance/impedance) and the like it is more likely to heat up and retain that heat than a single lengh of cable.
>> It didn't mention coils, it mentioned length of extension. And most long leads are coiled and the lengh would still have a resistance whether coiled or not.
>
> And then there's the extra contact resistance, as you'd get an idiot saying but my extention cord was only 1 meter but I used 5 of them.

It doesn't say not to use 5, it says not to use a long one.

>> >> Unless they want to lessen the risk of tripping over it? It's running on a 10m cord half unwound attached to a 10m cord fully unwound which is already there for a freezer. I've split about 50 1-tonne bags of logs with it and it works fine. Motorised hydraulics is fun.
>> >
>> > I doubt it's on for very long periods continiously that is.
>> Indeed, no problems at all. Probably 50% duty cycle while I do a barrow load, then the same time resting. So 50% for half the time is 25% overall. And I presume 2.5kW is when it's pushing against the log hard, a lot of time it's not working at full torque.
>
> Yes if you know what your doing and understand things, but it's those that don't understand is when H&S and warning are most useful.

Why should we protect the stupid?

>> >> >> >>>>> I've got one of those circuit breakers. It trips now and again when my
>> >> >> >>>>> wife is doing the ironing.
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> The earth leakage type or the overload type?
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Sadly, I have no idea. :-(
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Can you tell from a picture? https://ibb.co/nckJpXw
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Yes I can tell. The large one on the right is the earth leakage, to
>> >> >> >> prevent shocks. It trips if 30mA or more is not accounted for (it
>> >> >> >> compares live to neutral and if any is missing it must have gone to
>> >> >> >> earth, possibly through you, so it trips). Unfortunately you have the
>> >> >> >> cheap setup with only one of them, so the whole house will go off [1].
>> >> >> >> It also functions as a 100A limiter for the whole house, which should
>> >> >> >> trip before the 100A electricity board fuse by your meter does, if you
>> >> >> >> were to use that much, or something shorted inside the box, like a wire
>> >> >> >> coming loose.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > It's the large, main breaker, is the one that trips with the iron. The
>> >> >> > small one's don't ever seem to need resetting!
>> >> >> Seems your iron has a loose wire and is leaking power to earth. Or through your wife.
>> >> >
>> >> > If it's an old iron could be that the flex has twisted somewhere and worn internally
>> >> > and a strange of the live wire comes into contact with earth.
>> >> > Also I've seen on old appliences that a ON neon is connected between live and earth
>> >> > and that can trigger a cutout, even seen one on a PSU where one side of the neon was connected to Live and the other to the metal case of the PSU
>> >> > which was earthed.
>> >> Some of the lighting in my house uses earth instead of neutral because it was more convenient to connect to that. Just aswell I only have fuses.
>> >
>> > Yes I had to re-wire the old PSUs in a school because of that.
>> Or just get rid of the namby pamby breakers.
>
> Be difficult after spending many thousands on upgrading the electrics.

Never heard of a nail? I did that when I was a teenager. I needed 20 amps form a 13A plug.

>> I changed some breakers to less sensitive ones - the ones that are somehow ok for kids in their homes but illegal for kids in a school. They somehow become more sensitive when they're at school.
>
> Not heard that one I'd say it's down to possible sueing if a kid or adult gets injured or killed.

Yip, legal bullshit. Based on the stupid idea that a kid is more sensitive to shocks when in a different building. Well I disproved that by shocking a kid through a home breaker. He hardly felt a thing.

>> >> They're the same thing anyway, there are only 2 conductors coming into my house.
>> >
>> > there's a reason why the third wire is called Earth.
>> Yankee pricks call it ground.
>
> I guess we should be thankful they don't call it the first floor as they do with buildings.

Now that is actually one of the things I like about Americans. Why do we start with ground then say the first floor is the one you have to climb a flight of stairs to get to? The ground floor is a floor, it has floorboards and a carpet, just like the rest. It is not on the ground, there is a gap under it. That is therefore the first floor you come to. Buildings are not computers, you should not start at zero!

>> > Just think of teh cost of wiring if it needed to be connected to the moon or even Mars !
>> Mine is not connected to earth here, it's connected to the transformer ('s earth). You'd think they could just run the 240V cable then use a spike at each house.
>> >> >> >> The others are just limiters and work exactly like fuses, to stop you
>> >> >> >> using more than 32A on the socket circuit for example,to prevent a
>> >> >> >> fire. I'm assuming the 4th from the left (downstairs power) is what
>> >> >> >> tripped when the iron was used, which means you have a very dodgy iron
>> >> >> >> exceeding 32 amps when it's meant to use about 8.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > No, as I said above, it's the main breaker which trips!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> [1] The fancy ones have earth leakage built into every breaker, so if
>> >> >> >> you get a shock you only trip that one circuit and the lights don't go
>> >> >> >> off, which is precisely what you don't want when up a ladder!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Understood - but I didn't choose it!
>> >> >> I have fuses :-)
>> >> >
>> >> > I do too and thinking of updating
>> >> Why bother? You'll just earn yourself nuisance trips.
>> >
>> > When selling and moving on it's a good plus-point for new buyers, I might even have to wash the curtains.
>> People don't give a fuck about things like that. They know it will cost them nothing compared to the price of the house if they want to change it.
>
> Depends who's buying


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