On 21.11.2021. 16:11, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 4:30:52 PM UTC-5, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
>>>>>>> sharp.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
>>>>
>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
>>> particles in meat.
>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
>>>>>>> in your hands.
>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
>>>>>>>> So, the
>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
>>>>
>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
>>>>
>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
>>>>
>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
>>>>
>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
>>>>
>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
>>>>
>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
>>>>
>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
>>> this reason.
>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
>>>>>>>>> If you don't have carnassials you cannot eat what you pierced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thin slices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A sharp obsidian flake slices thinly through flesh & sinew.
>>>>>>> No way that I would eat this flesh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tartare.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you crazy? Ok, if this
>>>>>>> obsidian is made industrially, and I have a guarantee that everything is
>>>>>>> alright with it, it is grounded smoothly. Obsidian used by our ancestors
>>>>>>> isn't anything like that.
>>>>>>>>> Shearing. Stone? It will break your teeth?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What? Obsidian slicing meat.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Obsidian? It will cut your
>>>>>>>>> throat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't eat stone, eat meat.
>>>>> Try it yourself.
>>>>
>>>> You don't understand meat processing & eating. Do you worry about metal or plastic fragments & particles when using fork & spoon?
>>> Of course I don't, because (ground) metal doesn't shutter.
>> Shatter? Flint knives don't shatter cutting meat.
>> It is you
>>> who doesn't understand anything. By grinding hematite you get ochre. Red
>>> ochre is the evidence that we ground metal. Metal becomes sharp by
>>> grinding, but it doesn't shutter after that. Good morning.
>>>>>> Metal? Now, that's much better, but it only came in Middle
>>>>>>>>> Paleolithic, along with Homo sapiens. This is why Homo sapiens has
>>>>>>>>> changes in chopping apparatus. With metal we chopped off meat from
>>>>>>>>> carcass. But, that's about it.
>>>>>>>>> No, before the first tools, we had to have fire. Fire was the tool to
>>>>>>>>> soften up meat. Why would you pierce an animal, if you cannot eat its
>>>>>>>>> meat? For hides? No. Before Oldowan tools we had to have fire,
>>>>>>>>> otherwise, why would we hunt animals in the first place?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thin-sliced & ground-up meat, chewing gum style.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And this logical net *proves* how Science is *shallow*. They have all
>>>>>>>>> those stories about our past, without even thinking to resolve the
>>>>>>>>> "carnassial" problem. You cannot eat meat without carnassials, or
>>>>>>>>> without fire. Full stop.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cold-blooded oysters, crab, shrimp were not cooked, because their flesh was never hot.
>>>>>>>> Warm blooded rabbits, antelope, pigs were cooked to bring the meat back to life-like temperature, cold meat did not taste as good. Those who cooked thin sliced meat reduced food-borne parasites so their progeny were healthier.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nobody ate big chunks of meat, cooked or uncooked, not edible. Mammoth was thin-sliced.
>>>>>>>> DD
>>>>>>> We ate shellfish raw.
>>>>
>>>> We ate everything raw.
>>> Of course, you only lack the evidence for this claim.
>> Since tetrapods left the sea, raw food was the norm.
>>>> We burned surroundings for safety, not for food.
>>>>>>> But, this burning gave us food. So, this is how we acquired eating
>>>>>>> burned food.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Silly fantasy. You burn your house down and then eat the burnt rats?
>>>>> What house? We were living on rocky sea cliffs,
>>>>
>>>> Geladas don't burn down the forest.
>>> There is no forest where Geladas live, there is only grass. And
>>> Geladas eat grass.
>> Right, they don't burn it to make it taste better
>>>>
>>>> rocks don't burn, and
>>>>> if they would burn, we still can jump into sea.
>
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-00955-z
> 300ka Israel cave, stone flint blades heat-treated in temperature controlled fire

On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
> >>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
> >>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
> >>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
> >>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
> >>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
> >>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Google
> >>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
> >>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
> >>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
> >>>>>> sharp.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
> >>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
> >>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
> >>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
> >>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
> >>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
> >>>> knap them, just for fun?
> >>>
> >>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
> >>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
> >> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
> >> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
> >> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
> >> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
> >> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
> >> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
> >> particles in meat.
> >> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
> >> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
> >>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
> >>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
> >>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
> >>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
> >>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
> >>>>>> in your hands.
> >>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
> >>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Probably not.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
> >>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
> >>>>>>> So, the
> >>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
> >>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
> >>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
> >>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
> >>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
> >>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
> >>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
> >>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
> >>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
> >>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
> >>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
> >>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
> >>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
> >>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
> >>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
> >>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
> >>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
> >>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
> >>>
> >>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
> >>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
> >>>
> >>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
> >>>
> >>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
> >>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
> >>>
> >>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
> >> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
> >> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
> >>> Knapped flakes are made of
> >>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
> >>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
> >>>
> >>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
> >>>
> >>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
> >>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
> >>>
> >>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
> >> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
> >> this reason.
> >
> > Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
> We are talking about first apes,

I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.

who didn't look like orangutans, but,
> like us. They had thick enamel, this is why orangutan *still* has thick
> enamel. This is a vestigial trait.

On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
>>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
>>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
>>>>>>>> sharp.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
>>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
>>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
>>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
>>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
>>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
>>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
>>>>>
>>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
>>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
>>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
>>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
>>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
>>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
>>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
>>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
>>>> particles in meat.
>>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
>>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
>>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
>>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
>>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
>>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
>>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
>>>>>>>> in your hands.
>>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
>>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Probably not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
>>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
>>>>>>>>> So, the
>>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
>>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
>>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
>>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
>>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
>>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
>>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
>>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
>>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
>>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
>>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
>>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
>>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
>>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
>>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
>>>>>
>>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
>>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
>>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
>>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
>>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
>>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
>>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
>>>>>
>>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
>>>>>
>>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
>>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
>>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
>>>> this reason.
>>>
>>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
>> We are talking about first apes,
>
> I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.

On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:47:55 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
> >>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
> >>>>>>>> sharp.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
> >>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
> >>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
> >>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
> >>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
> >>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
> >>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
> >>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
> >>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
> >>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
> >>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
> >>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
> >>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
> >>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
> >>>> particles in meat.
> >>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
> >>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
> >>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
> >>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
> >>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
> >>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
> >>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
> >>>>>>>> in your hands.
> >>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
> >>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Probably not.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
> >>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
> >>>>>>>>> So, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
> >>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
> >>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
> >>>>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
> >>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
> >>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
> >>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
> >>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
> >>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
> >>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
> >>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
> >>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
> >>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
> >>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
> >>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
> >>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
> >>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
> >>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
> >>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
> >>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
> >>>>>
> >>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
> >>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
> >>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
> >>>> this reason.
> >>>
> >>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
> >> We are talking about first apes,
> >
> > I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.
> I would start from the beginning.
Of what?
> > who didn't look like orangutans, but,
> >> like us. They had thick enamel, this is why orangutan *still* has thick
> >> enamel. This is a vestigial trait.
> >
> > Orangutans eat hard nuts and fruits, gorillas don't, chimps and humans use tools but chewed a lot until milling advanced.
> >
> >>>>>>>>>> If you don't have carnassials you cannot eat what you pierced.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thin slices.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> A sharp obsidian flake slices thinly through flesh & sinew.
> >>>>>>>> No way that I would eat this flesh.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Tartare.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Are you crazy? Ok, if this
> >>>>>>>> obsidian is made industrially, and I have a guarantee that everything is
> >>>>>>>> alright with it, it is grounded smoothly. Obsidian used by our ancestors
> >>>>>>>> isn't anything like that.
> >>>>>>>>>> Shearing. Stone? It will break your teeth?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> What? Obsidian slicing meat.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Obsidian? It will cut your
> >>>>>>>>>> throat.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Don't eat stone, eat meat.
> >>>>>> Try it yourself.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You don't understand meat processing & eating. Do you worry about metal or plastic fragments & particles when using fork & spoon?
> >>>> Of course I don't, because (ground) metal doesn't shutter.
> >
> > Obsidian is brittle laterally (bending to the side), but perfect cutting straight through meat.
> It is brittle glass. It would cut throat.
Perfect for cutting meat.
> >>> Shatter? Flint knives don't shatter cutting meat.
> >> It will (from time to time), it is brittle. It is enough to shatter
> >> once, to brake my tooth.
Then you pushed the blade laterally or hit the bone and pried or twisted the blade.

On 22.11.2021. 15:10, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:47:55 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>> On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
>>>>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
>>>>>>>>>> sharp.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
>>>>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
>>>>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
>>>>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
>>>>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
>>>>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
>>>>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
>>>>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
>>>>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
>>>>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
>>>>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
>>>>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
>>>>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
>>>>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
>>>>>> particles in meat.
>>>>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
>>>>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
>>>>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
>>>>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
>>>>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
>>>>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
>>>>>>>>>> in your hands.
>>>>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
>>>>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Probably not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
>>>>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
>>>>>>>>>>> So, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
>>>>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
>>>>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
>>>>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
>>>>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
>>>>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
>>>>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
>>>>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
>>>>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
>>>>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
>>>>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
>>>>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
>>>>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
>>>>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
>>>>>> this reason.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
>>>> We are talking about first apes,
>>>
>>> I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.
>> I would start from the beginning.
> Of what?

On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 11:40:08 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> On 22.11.2021. 15:10, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:47:55 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >> On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
> >>>>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
> >>>>>>>>>> sharp.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
> >>>>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
> >>>>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
> >>>>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
> >>>>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
> >>>>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
> >>>>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
> >>>>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
> >>>>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
> >>>>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
> >>>>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
> >>>>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
> >>>>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
> >>>>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
> >>>>>> particles in meat.
> >>>>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
> >>>>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
> >>>>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
> >>>>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
> >>>>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
> >>>>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
> >>>>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
> >>>>>>>>>> in your hands.
> >>>>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
> >>>>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Probably not.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
> >>>>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
> >>>>>>>>>>> So, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
> >>>>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
> >>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
> >>>>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
> >>>>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
> >>>>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
> >>>>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
> >>>>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
> >>>>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
> >>>>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
> >>>>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
> >>>>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
> >>>>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
> >>>>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
> >>>>>> this reason.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
> >>>> We are talking about first apes,
> >>>
> >>> I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.
> >> I would start from the beginning.
> > Of what?
> Of meat eating.
> >>> who didn't look like orangutans, but,
> >>>> like us. They had thick enamel, this is why orangutan *still* has thick
> >>>> enamel. This is a vestigial trait.
> >>>
> >>> Orangutans eat hard nuts and fruits, gorillas don't, chimps and humans use tools but chewed a lot until milling advanced.
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't have carnassials you cannot eat what you pierced.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thin slices.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> A sharp obsidian flake slices thinly through flesh & sinew.
> >>>>>>>>>> No way that I would eat this flesh.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Tartare.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Are you crazy? Ok, if this
> >>>>>>>>>> obsidian is made industrially, and I have a guarantee that everything is
> >>>>>>>>>> alright with it, it is grounded smoothly. Obsidian used by our ancestors
> >>>>>>>>>> isn't anything like that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Shearing. Stone? It will break your teeth?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> What? Obsidian slicing meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian? It will cut your
> >>>>>>>>>>>> throat.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Don't eat stone, eat meat.
> >>>>>>>> Try it yourself.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You don't understand meat processing & eating. Do you worry about metal or plastic fragments & particles when using fork & spoon?
> >>>>>> Of course I don't, because (ground) metal doesn't shutter.
> >>>
> >>> Obsidian is brittle laterally (bending to the side), but perfect cutting straight through meat.
> >> It is brittle glass. It would cut throat.
> > Perfect for cutting meat.
> Cutting, yes. Inedible meat.
> >>>>> Shatter? Flint knives don't shatter cutting meat.
> >>>> It will (from time to time), it is brittle. It is enough to shatter
> >>>> once, to brake my tooth.
> > Then you pushed the blade laterally or hit the bone and pried or twisted the blade.
> Or anything.

On 22.11.2021. 22:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 11:40:08 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>> On 22.11.2021. 15:10, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:47:55 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>> On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
>>>>>>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
>>>>>>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
>>>>>>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
>>>>>>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
>>>>>>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
>>>>>>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
>>>>>>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
>>>>>>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
>>>>>>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
>>>>>>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
>>>>>>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
>>>>>>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
>>>>>>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
>>>>>>>> particles in meat.
>>>>>>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
>>>>>>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
>>>>>>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
>>>>>>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
>>>>>>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
>>>>>>>>>>>> in your hands.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
>>>>>>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Probably not.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
>>>>>>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
>>>>>>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
>>>>>>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
>>>>>>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
>>>>>>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
>>>>>>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
>>>>>>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
>>>>>>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
>>>>>>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
>>>>>>>> this reason.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
>>>>>> We are talking about first apes,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.
>>>> I would start from the beginning.
>>> Of what?
>> Of meat eating.
>>>>> who didn't look like orangutans, but,
>>>>>> like us. They had thick enamel, this is why orangutan *still* has thick
>>>>>> enamel. This is a vestigial trait.
>>>>>
>>>>> Orangutans eat hard nuts and fruits, gorillas don't, chimps and humans use tools but chewed a lot until milling advanced.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't have carnassials you cannot eat what you pierced.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thin slices.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A sharp obsidian flake slices thinly through flesh & sinew.
>>>>>>>>>>>> No way that I would eat this flesh.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tartare.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Are you crazy? Ok, if this
>>>>>>>>>>>> obsidian is made industrially, and I have a guarantee that everything is
>>>>>>>>>>>> alright with it, it is grounded smoothly. Obsidian used by our ancestors
>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't anything like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shearing. Stone? It will break your teeth?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What? Obsidian slicing meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian? It will cut your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throat.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Don't eat stone, eat meat.
>>>>>>>>>> Try it yourself.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You don't understand meat processing & eating. Do you worry about metal or plastic fragments & particles when using fork & spoon?
>>>>>>>> Of course I don't, because (ground) metal doesn't shutter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obsidian is brittle laterally (bending to the side), but perfect cutting straight through meat.
>>>> It is brittle glass. It would cut throat.
>>> Perfect for cutting meat.
>> Cutting, yes. Inedible meat.
>>>>>>> Shatter? Flint knives don't shatter cutting meat.
>>>>>> It will (from time to time), it is brittle. It is enough to shatter
>>>>>> once, to brake my tooth.
>>> Then you pushed the blade laterally or hit the bone and pried or twisted the blade.
>> Or anything.
>
> Have you ever touched obsidian?
> You seem very uninformed about it.
> Did you confuse it with something else?

On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 8:09:06 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> On 22.11.2021. 22:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 11:40:08 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >> On 22.11.2021. 15:10, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:47:55 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>> On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
> >>>>>>>>>>>> sharp.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
> >>>>>>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
> >>>>>>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
> >>>>>>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
> >>>>>>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
> >>>>>>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
> >>>>>>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
> >>>>>>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
> >>>>>>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
> >>>>>>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
> >>>>>>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
> >>>>>>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
> >>>>>>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
> >>>>>>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
> >>>>>>>> particles in meat.
> >>>>>>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
> >>>>>>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
> >>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
> >>>>>>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
> >>>>>>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
> >>>>>>>>>>>> in your hands.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
> >>>>>>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Probably not.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
> >>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
> >>>>>>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
> >>>>>>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
> >>>>>>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
> >>>>>>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
> >>>>>>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
> >>>>>>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
> >>>>>>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
> >>>>>>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
> >>>>>>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
> >>>>>>>> this reason.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
> >>>>>> We are talking about first apes,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.
> >>>> I would start from the beginning.
> >>> Of what?
> >> Of meat eating.
> >>>>> who didn't look like orangutans, but,
> >>>>>> like us. They had thick enamel, this is why orangutan *still* has thick
> >>>>>> enamel. This is a vestigial trait.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Orangutans eat hard nuts and fruits, gorillas don't, chimps and humans use tools but chewed a lot until milling advanced.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't have carnassials you cannot eat what you pierced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Thin slices.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A sharp obsidian flake slices thinly through flesh & sinew.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> No way that I would eat this flesh.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Tartare.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Are you crazy? Ok, if this
> >>>>>>>>>>>> obsidian is made industrially, and I have a guarantee that everything is
> >>>>>>>>>>>> alright with it, it is grounded smoothly. Obsidian used by our ancestors
> >>>>>>>>>>>> isn't anything like that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shearing. Stone? It will break your teeth?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What? Obsidian slicing meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian? It will cut your
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> throat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Don't eat stone, eat meat.
> >>>>>>>>>> Try it yourself.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> You don't understand meat processing & eating. Do you worry about metal or plastic fragments & particles when using fork & spoon?
> >>>>>>>> Of course I don't, because (ground) metal doesn't shutter.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Obsidian is brittle laterally (bending to the side), but perfect cutting straight through meat.
> >>>> It is brittle glass. It would cut throat.
> >>> Perfect for cutting meat.
> >> Cutting, yes. Inedible meat.
> >>>>>>> Shatter? Flint knives don't shatter cutting meat.
> >>>>>> It will (from time to time), it is brittle. It is enough to shatter
> >>>>>> once, to brake my tooth.
> >>> Then you pushed the blade laterally or hit the bone and pried or twisted the blade.
> >> Or anything.
> >
> > Have you ever touched obsidian?
> > You seem very uninformed about it.
> > Did you confuse it with something else?
> No, I never touched obsidian, I really am uninformed about it. I think
> that it is a form of glass. This is why it is so sharp.
> I am absolutely convinced that it is gravely dangerous to eat meat cut
> by Stone Age obsidian tools.
> >>>>>>> It is you
> >>>>>>>> who doesn't understand anything. By grinding hematite you get ochre. Red
> >>>>>>>> ochre is the evidence that we ground metal. Metal becomes sharp by
> >>>>>>>> grinding, but it doesn't shutter after that. Good morning.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Metal? Now, that's much better, but it only came in Middle
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paleolithic, along with Homo sapiens. This is why Homo sapiens has
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes in chopping apparatus. With metal we chopped off meat from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> carcass. But, that's about it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, before the first tools, we had to have fire. Fire was the tool to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> soften up meat. Why would you pierce an animal, if you cannot eat its
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> meat? For hides? No. Before Oldowan tools we had to have fire,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise, why would we hunt animals in the first place?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin-sliced & ground-up meat, chewing gum style.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And this logical net *proves* how Science is *shallow*. They have all
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> those stories about our past, without even thinking to resolve the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "carnassial" problem. You cannot eat meat without carnassials, or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> without fire. Full stop.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sharp cutting into slices, then chewing like bubblegum.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cold-blooded oysters, crab, shrimp were not cooked, because their flesh was never hot.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm blooded rabbits, antelope, pigs were cooked to bring the meat back to life-like temperature, cold meat did not taste as good. Those who cooked thin sliced meat reduced food-borne parasites so their progeny were healthier.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody ate big chunks of meat, cooked or uncooked, not edible. Mammoth was thin-sliced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> DD
> >>>>>>>>>>>> We ate shellfish raw.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> We ate everything raw.
> >>>>>>>> Of course, you only lack the evidence for this claim.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Since tetrapods left the sea, raw food was the norm.
> >>>>>> Not for humans, as we can see.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Because humans quit swinging and started cutting.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> We burned surroundings for safety, not for food.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> But, this burning gave us food. So, this is how we acquired eating
> >>>>>>>>>>>> burned food.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Silly fantasy. You burn your house down and then eat the burnt rats?
> >>>>>>>>>> What house? We were living on rocky sea cliffs,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Geladas don't burn down the forest.
> >>>>>>>> There is no forest where Geladas live, there is only grass. And
> >>>>>>>> Geladas eat grass.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Right, they don't burn it to make it taste better
> >>>>>> Exactly. Because if you are used to raw meat taste, you will not like
> >>>>>> burned meat better.
> >>>>> Cats like my hamburgers well done.
> >>>> https://youtu.be/YSd413Xrk_Q
> >>>>> Only if you are used to burned meat from the very
> >>>>>> beginning.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As I said, humans cooked terrestrial meat to return it to living temperature, but didn't cook seafood since it was coldblooded.
> >>>> You have very good imagination, but this is pure bollocks.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks, a good scientist uses imagination as a software tool, like language.
> >>> Hard: obsidian
> >>> Tough: rubber
> >>> Hard and tough: steel
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> rocks don't burn, and
> >>>>>>>>>> if they would burn, we still can jump into sea.
>
> --
> https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
> human-e...@googlegroups.com
Be logical. To make an obsidian blade, one must knap it from the side. You can't knap it with meat, it won't chip off, it will cut through.

On 23.11.2021. 2:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 8:09:06 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>> On 22.11.2021. 22:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 11:40:08 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>> On 22.11.2021. 15:10, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:47:55 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>> On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
>>>>>>>>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
>>>>>>>>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
>>>>>>>>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
>>>>>>>>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
>>>>>>>>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
>>>>>>>>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
>>>>>>>>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
>>>>>>>>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
>>>>>>>>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
>>>>>>>>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
>>>>>>>>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
>>>>>>>>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
>>>>>>>>>> particles in meat.
>>>>>>>>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
>>>>>>>>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your hands.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
>>>>>>>>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
>>>>>>>>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
>>>>>>>>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
>>>>>>>>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
>>>>>>>>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
>>>>>>>>>> this reason.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
>>>>>>>> We are talking about first apes,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.
>>>>>> I would start from the beginning.
>>>>> Of what?
>>>> Of meat eating.
>>>>>>> who didn't look like orangutans, but,
>>>>>>>> like us. They had thick enamel, this is why orangutan *still* has thick
>>>>>>>> enamel. This is a vestigial trait.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Orangutans eat hard nuts and fruits, gorillas don't, chimps and humans use tools but chewed a lot until milling advanced.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't have carnassials you cannot eat what you pierced.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin slices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A sharp obsidian flake slices thinly through flesh & sinew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way that I would eat this flesh.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tartare.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you crazy? Ok, if this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obsidian is made industrially, and I have a guarantee that everything is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alright with it, it is grounded smoothly. Obsidian used by our ancestors
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't anything like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shearing. Stone? It will break your teeth?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What? Obsidian slicing meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian? It will cut your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't eat stone, eat meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Try it yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You don't understand meat processing & eating. Do you worry about metal or plastic fragments & particles when using fork & spoon?
>>>>>>>>>> Of course I don't, because (ground) metal doesn't shutter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Obsidian is brittle laterally (bending to the side), but perfect cutting straight through meat.
>>>>>> It is brittle glass. It would cut throat.
>>>>> Perfect for cutting meat.
>>>> Cutting, yes. Inedible meat.
>>>>>>>>> Shatter? Flint knives don't shatter cutting meat.
>>>>>>>> It will (from time to time), it is brittle. It is enough to shatter
>>>>>>>> once, to brake my tooth.
>>>>> Then you pushed the blade laterally or hit the bone and pried or twisted the blade.
>>>> Or anything.
>>>
>>> Have you ever touched obsidian?
>>> You seem very uninformed about it.
>>> Did you confuse it with something else?
>> No, I never touched obsidian, I really am uninformed about it. I think
>> that it is a form of glass. This is why it is so sharp.
>> I am absolutely convinced that it is gravely dangerous to eat meat cut
>> by Stone Age obsidian tools.
>>>>>>>>> It is you
>>>>>>>>>> who doesn't understand anything. By grinding hematite you get ochre. Red
>>>>>>>>>> ochre is the evidence that we ground metal. Metal becomes sharp by
>>>>>>>>>> grinding, but it doesn't shutter after that. Good morning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Metal? Now, that's much better, but it only came in Middle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paleolithic, along with Homo sapiens. This is why Homo sapiens has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes in chopping apparatus. With metal we chopped off meat from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carcass. But, that's about it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, before the first tools, we had to have fire. Fire was the tool to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soften up meat. Why would you pierce an animal, if you cannot eat its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meat? For hides? No. Before Oldowan tools we had to have fire,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise, why would we hunt animals in the first place?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin-sliced & ground-up meat, chewing gum style.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And this logical net *proves* how Science is *shallow*. They have all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those stories about our past, without even thinking to resolve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "carnassial" problem. You cannot eat meat without carnassials, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without fire. Full stop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sharp cutting into slices, then chewing like bubblegum.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cold-blooded oysters, crab, shrimp were not cooked, because their flesh was never hot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm blooded rabbits, antelope, pigs were cooked to bring the meat back to life-like temperature, cold meat did not taste as good. Those who cooked thin sliced meat reduced food-borne parasites so their progeny were healthier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody ate big chunks of meat, cooked or uncooked, not edible. Mammoth was thin-sliced.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate shellfish raw.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We ate everything raw.
>>>>>>>>>> Of course, you only lack the evidence for this claim.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since tetrapods left the sea, raw food was the norm.
>>>>>>>> Not for humans, as we can see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because humans quit swinging and started cutting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We burned surroundings for safety, not for food.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, this burning gave us food. So, this is how we acquired eating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned food.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Silly fantasy. You burn your house down and then eat the burnt rats?
>>>>>>>>>>>> What house? We were living on rocky sea cliffs,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas don't burn down the forest.
>>>>>>>>>> There is no forest where Geladas live, there is only grass. And
>>>>>>>>>> Geladas eat grass.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Right, they don't burn it to make it taste better
>>>>>>>> Exactly. Because if you are used to raw meat taste, you will not like
>>>>>>>> burned meat better.
>>>>>>> Cats like my hamburgers well done.
>>>>>> https://youtu.be/YSd413Xrk_Q
>>>>>>> Only if you are used to burned meat from the very
>>>>>>>> beginning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I said, humans cooked terrestrial meat to return it to living temperature, but didn't cook seafood since it was coldblooded.
>>>>>> You have very good imagination, but this is pure bollocks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, a good scientist uses imagination as a software tool, like language.
>>>>> Hard: obsidian
>>>>> Tough: rubber
>>>>> Hard and tough: steel
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> rocks don't burn, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> if they would burn, we still can jump into sea.
>>
> Be logical. To make an obsidian blade, one must knap it from the side. You can't knap it with meat, it won't chip off, it will cut through.

On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> On 23.11.2021. 2:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 8:09:06 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >> On 22.11.2021. 22:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 11:40:08 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>> On 22.11.2021. 15:10, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:47:55 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>> On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
> >>>>>>>>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
> >>>>>>>>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
> >>>>>>>>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
> >>>>>>>>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
> >>>>>>>>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
> >>>>>>>>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
> >>>>>>>>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
> >>>>>>>>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
> >>>>>>>>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
> >>>>>>>>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
> >>>>>>>>>> particles in meat.
> >>>>>>>>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
> >>>>>>>>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your hands.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably not.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
> >>>>>>>>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
> >>>>>>>>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
> >>>>>>>>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
> >>>>>>>>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
> >>>>>>>>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
> >>>>>>>>>> this reason.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
> >>>>>>>> We are talking about first apes,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.
> >>>>>> I would start from the beginning.
> >>>>> Of what?
> >>>> Of meat eating.
> >>>>>>> who didn't look like orangutans, but,
> >>>>>>>> like us. They had thick enamel, this is why orangutan *still* has thick
> >>>>>>>> enamel. This is a vestigial trait.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Orangutans eat hard nuts and fruits, gorillas don't, chimps and humans use tools but chewed a lot until milling advanced.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't have carnassials you cannot eat what you pierced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin slices.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A sharp obsidian flake slices thinly through flesh & sinew.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way that I would eat this flesh.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tartare.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you crazy? Ok, if this
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> obsidian is made industrially, and I have a guarantee that everything is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> alright with it, it is grounded smoothly. Obsidian used by our ancestors
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't anything like that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shearing. Stone? It will break your teeth?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What? Obsidian slicing meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian? It will cut your
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't eat stone, eat meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Try it yourself.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> You don't understand meat processing & eating. Do you worry about metal or plastic fragments & particles when using fork & spoon?
> >>>>>>>>>> Of course I don't, because (ground) metal doesn't shutter.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Obsidian is brittle laterally (bending to the side), but perfect cutting straight through meat.
> >>>>>> It is brittle glass. It would cut throat.
> >>>>> Perfect for cutting meat.
> >>>> Cutting, yes. Inedible meat.
> >>>>>>>>> Shatter? Flint knives don't shatter cutting meat.
> >>>>>>>> It will (from time to time), it is brittle. It is enough to shatter
> >>>>>>>> once, to brake my tooth.
> >>>>> Then you pushed the blade laterally or hit the bone and pried or twisted the blade.
> >>>> Or anything.
> >>>
> >>> Have you ever touched obsidian?
> >>> You seem very uninformed about it.
> >>> Did you confuse it with something else?
> >> No, I never touched obsidian, I really am uninformed about it. I think
> >> that it is a form of glass. This is why it is so sharp.
> >> I am absolutely convinced that it is gravely dangerous to eat meat cut
> >> by Stone Age obsidian tools.
> >>>>>>>>> It is you
> >>>>>>>>>> who doesn't understand anything. By grinding hematite you get ochre. Red
> >>>>>>>>>> ochre is the evidence that we ground metal. Metal becomes sharp by
> >>>>>>>>>> grinding, but it doesn't shutter after that. Good morning.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Metal? Now, that's much better, but it only came in Middle
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paleolithic, along with Homo sapiens. This is why Homo sapiens has
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes in chopping apparatus. With metal we chopped off meat from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carcass. But, that's about it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, before the first tools, we had to have fire. Fire was the tool to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soften up meat. Why would you pierce an animal, if you cannot eat its
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meat? For hides? No. Before Oldowan tools we had to have fire,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise, why would we hunt animals in the first place?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin-sliced & ground-up meat, chewing gum style.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And this logical net *proves* how Science is *shallow*. They have all
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those stories about our past, without even thinking to resolve the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "carnassial" problem. You cannot eat meat without carnassials, or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without fire. Full stop.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sharp cutting into slices, then chewing like bubblegum.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cold-blooded oysters, crab, shrimp were not cooked, because their flesh was never hot.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm blooded rabbits, antelope, pigs were cooked to bring the meat back to life-like temperature, cold meat did not taste as good. Those who cooked thin sliced meat reduced food-borne parasites so their progeny were healthier.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody ate big chunks of meat, cooked or uncooked, not edible. Mammoth was thin-sliced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate shellfish raw.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> We ate everything raw.
> >>>>>>>>>> Of course, you only lack the evidence for this claim.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Since tetrapods left the sea, raw food was the norm.
> >>>>>>>> Not for humans, as we can see.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Because humans quit swinging and started cutting.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> We burned surroundings for safety, not for food.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, this burning gave us food. So, this is how we acquired eating
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned food.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Silly fantasy. You burn your house down and then eat the burnt rats?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> What house? We were living on rocky sea cliffs,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Geladas don't burn down the forest.
> >>>>>>>>>> There is no forest where Geladas live, there is only grass. And
> >>>>>>>>>> Geladas eat grass.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Right, they don't burn it to make it taste better
> >>>>>>>> Exactly. Because if you are used to raw meat taste, you will not like
> >>>>>>>> burned meat better.
> >>>>>>> Cats like my hamburgers well done.
> >>>>>> https://youtu.be/YSd413Xrk_Q
> >>>>>>> Only if you are used to burned meat from the very
> >>>>>>>> beginning.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As I said, humans cooked terrestrial meat to return it to living temperature, but didn't cook seafood since it was coldblooded.
> >>>>>> You have very good imagination, but this is pure bollocks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks, a good scientist uses imagination as a software tool, like language.
> >>>>> Hard: obsidian
> >>>>> Tough: rubber
> >>>>> Hard and tough: steel
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> rocks don't burn, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> if they would burn, we still can jump into sea.
> >>
> > Be logical. To make an obsidian blade, one must knap it from the side. You can't knap it with meat, it won't chip off, it will cut through.
> I don't play Russian roulette. You say, well, there is only 1 chance
> in 6 that I'll die, so odds are on my side. I'd rather chop off meat
> with my teeth, until people invent hematite.
> https://youtu.be/OUZeDOaheUE
>
> --
> https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
> human-e...@googlegroups.com
A BULLET TO YOUR BRAIN WOULD DO NO DAMAGE.

On 23.11.2021. 13:03, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>> On 23.11.2021. 2:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 8:09:06 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>> On 22.11.2021. 22:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 11:40:08 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>> On 22.11.2021. 15:10, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:47:55 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
>>>>>>>>>>>> particles in meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
>>>>>>>>>>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your hands.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
>>>>>>>>>>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
>>>>>>>>>>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
>>>>>>>>>>>> this reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
>>>>>>>>>> We are talking about first apes,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.
>>>>>>>> I would start from the beginning.
>>>>>>> Of what?
>>>>>> Of meat eating.
>>>>>>>>> who didn't look like orangutans, but,
>>>>>>>>>> like us. They had thick enamel, this is why orangutan *still* has thick
>>>>>>>>>> enamel. This is a vestigial trait.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Orangutans eat hard nuts and fruits, gorillas don't, chimps and humans use tools but chewed a lot until milling advanced.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't have carnassials you cannot eat what you pierced.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin slices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A sharp obsidian flake slices thinly through flesh & sinew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way that I would eat this flesh.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tartare.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you crazy? Ok, if this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obsidian is made industrially, and I have a guarantee that everything is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alright with it, it is grounded smoothly. Obsidian used by our ancestors
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't anything like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shearing. Stone? It will break your teeth?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What? Obsidian slicing meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian? It will cut your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't eat stone, eat meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try it yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't understand meat processing & eating. Do you worry about metal or plastic fragments & particles when using fork & spoon?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course I don't, because (ground) metal doesn't shutter.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Obsidian is brittle laterally (bending to the side), but perfect cutting straight through meat.
>>>>>>>> It is brittle glass. It would cut throat.
>>>>>>> Perfect for cutting meat.
>>>>>> Cutting, yes. Inedible meat.
>>>>>>>>>>> Shatter? Flint knives don't shatter cutting meat.
>>>>>>>>>> It will (from time to time), it is brittle. It is enough to shatter
>>>>>>>>>> once, to brake my tooth.
>>>>>>> Then you pushed the blade laterally or hit the bone and pried or twisted the blade.
>>>>>> Or anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you ever touched obsidian?
>>>>> You seem very uninformed about it.
>>>>> Did you confuse it with something else?
>>>> No, I never touched obsidian, I really am uninformed about it. I think
>>>> that it is a form of glass. This is why it is so sharp.
>>>> I am absolutely convinced that it is gravely dangerous to eat meat cut
>>>> by Stone Age obsidian tools.
>>>>>>>>>>> It is you
>>>>>>>>>>>> who doesn't understand anything. By grinding hematite you get ochre. Red
>>>>>>>>>>>> ochre is the evidence that we ground metal. Metal becomes sharp by
>>>>>>>>>>>> grinding, but it doesn't shutter after that. Good morning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Metal? Now, that's much better, but it only came in Middle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paleolithic, along with Homo sapiens. This is why Homo sapiens has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes in chopping apparatus. With metal we chopped off meat from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carcass. But, that's about it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, before the first tools, we had to have fire. Fire was the tool to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soften up meat. Why would you pierce an animal, if you cannot eat its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meat? For hides? No. Before Oldowan tools we had to have fire,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise, why would we hunt animals in the first place?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin-sliced & ground-up meat, chewing gum style.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And this logical net *proves* how Science is *shallow*. They have all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those stories about our past, without even thinking to resolve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "carnassial" problem. You cannot eat meat without carnassials, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without fire. Full stop.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sharp cutting into slices, then chewing like bubblegum.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cold-blooded oysters, crab, shrimp were not cooked, because their flesh was never hot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm blooded rabbits, antelope, pigs were cooked to bring the meat back to life-like temperature, cold meat did not taste as good. Those who cooked thin sliced meat reduced food-borne parasites so their progeny were healthier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody ate big chunks of meat, cooked or uncooked, not edible. Mammoth was thin-sliced.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate shellfish raw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate everything raw.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, you only lack the evidence for this claim.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Since tetrapods left the sea, raw food was the norm.
>>>>>>>>>> Not for humans, as we can see.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because humans quit swinging and started cutting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We burned surroundings for safety, not for food.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, this burning gave us food. So, this is how we acquired eating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned food.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Silly fantasy. You burn your house down and then eat the burnt rats?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What house? We were living on rocky sea cliffs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas don't burn down the forest.
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no forest where Geladas live, there is only grass. And
>>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas eat grass.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Right, they don't burn it to make it taste better
>>>>>>>>>> Exactly. Because if you are used to raw meat taste, you will not like
>>>>>>>>>> burned meat better.
>>>>>>>>> Cats like my hamburgers well done.
>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/YSd413Xrk_Q
>>>>>>>>> Only if you are used to burned meat from the very
>>>>>>>>>> beginning.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I said, humans cooked terrestrial meat to return it to living temperature, but didn't cook seafood since it was coldblooded.
>>>>>>>> You have very good imagination, but this is pure bollocks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, a good scientist uses imagination as a software tool, like language.
>>>>>>> Hard: obsidian
>>>>>>> Tough: rubber
>>>>>>> Hard and tough: steel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rocks don't burn, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if they would burn, we still can jump into sea.
>>>>
>>> Be logical. To make an obsidian blade, one must knap it from the side. You can't knap it with meat, it won't chip off, it will cut through.
>> I don't play Russian roulette. You say, well, there is only 1 chance
>> in 6 that I'll die, so odds are on my side. I'd rather chop off meat
>> with my teeth, until people invent hematite.
>> https://youtu.be/OUZeDOaheUE
>>
> A BULLET TO YOUR BRAIN WOULD DO NO DAMAGE.

On Tuesday, November 23, 2021 at 4:25:27 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> On 23.11.2021. 13:03, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >> On 23.11.2021. 2:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 8:09:06 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>> On 22.11.2021. 22:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 11:40:08 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>> On 22.11.2021. 15:10, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:47:55 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
> >>>>>>>>>>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
> >>>>>>>>>>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
> >>>>>>>>>>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
> >>>>>>>>>>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
> >>>>>>>>>>>> particles in meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
> >>>>>>>>>>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your hands.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably not.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
> >>>>>>>>>>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
> >>>>>>>>>>>> this reason.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
> >>>>>>>>>> We are talking about first apes,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.
> >>>>>>>> I would start from the beginning.
> >>>>>>> Of what?
> >>>>>> Of meat eating.
> >>>>>>>>> who didn't look like orangutans, but,
> >>>>>>>>>> like us. They had thick enamel, this is why orangutan *still* has thick
> >>>>>>>>>> enamel. This is a vestigial trait.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Orangutans eat hard nuts and fruits, gorillas don't, chimps and humans use tools but chewed a lot until milling advanced.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't have carnassials you cannot eat what you pierced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin slices.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A sharp obsidian flake slices thinly through flesh & sinew.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way that I would eat this flesh.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tartare.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you crazy? Ok, if this
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obsidian is made industrially, and I have a guarantee that everything is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alright with it, it is grounded smoothly. Obsidian used by our ancestors
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't anything like that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shearing. Stone? It will break your teeth?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What? Obsidian slicing meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian? It will cut your
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't eat stone, eat meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try it yourself.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't understand meat processing & eating. Do you worry about metal or plastic fragments & particles when using fork & spoon?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Of course I don't, because (ground) metal doesn't shutter.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Obsidian is brittle laterally (bending to the side), but perfect cutting straight through meat.
> >>>>>>>> It is brittle glass. It would cut throat.
> >>>>>>> Perfect for cutting meat.
> >>>>>> Cutting, yes. Inedible meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Shatter? Flint knives don't shatter cutting meat.
> >>>>>>>>>> It will (from time to time), it is brittle. It is enough to shatter
> >>>>>>>>>> once, to brake my tooth.
> >>>>>>> Then you pushed the blade laterally or hit the bone and pried or twisted the blade.
> >>>>>> Or anything.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Have you ever touched obsidian?
> >>>>> You seem very uninformed about it.
> >>>>> Did you confuse it with something else?
> >>>> No, I never touched obsidian, I really am uninformed about it. I think
> >>>> that it is a form of glass. This is why it is so sharp.
> >>>> I am absolutely convinced that it is gravely dangerous to eat meat cut
> >>>> by Stone Age obsidian tools.
> >>>>>>>>>>> It is you
> >>>>>>>>>>>> who doesn't understand anything. By grinding hematite you get ochre. Red
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ochre is the evidence that we ground metal. Metal becomes sharp by
> >>>>>>>>>>>> grinding, but it doesn't shutter after that. Good morning.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Metal? Now, that's much better, but it only came in Middle
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paleolithic, along with Homo sapiens. This is why Homo sapiens has
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes in chopping apparatus. With metal we chopped off meat from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carcass. But, that's about it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, before the first tools, we had to have fire. Fire was the tool to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soften up meat. Why would you pierce an animal, if you cannot eat its
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meat? For hides? No. Before Oldowan tools we had to have fire,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise, why would we hunt animals in the first place?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin-sliced & ground-up meat, chewing gum style.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And this logical net *proves* how Science is *shallow*. They have all
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those stories about our past, without even thinking to resolve the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "carnassial" problem. You cannot eat meat without carnassials, or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without fire. Full stop.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Sharp cutting into slices, then chewing like bubblegum.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cold-blooded oysters, crab, shrimp were not cooked, because their flesh was never hot.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm blooded rabbits, antelope, pigs were cooked to bring the meat back to life-like temperature, cold meat did not taste as good. Those who cooked thin sliced meat reduced food-borne parasites so their progeny were healthier.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody ate big chunks of meat, cooked or uncooked, not edible. Mammoth was thin-sliced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate shellfish raw.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate everything raw.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, you only lack the evidence for this claim.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Since tetrapods left the sea, raw food was the norm.
> >>>>>>>>>> Not for humans, as we can see.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Because humans quit swinging and started cutting.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We burned surroundings for safety, not for food.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, this burning gave us food. So, this is how we acquired eating
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned food.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Silly fantasy. You burn your house down and then eat the burnt rats?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What house? We were living on rocky sea cliffs,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas don't burn down the forest.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> There is no forest where Geladas live, there is only grass. And
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas eat grass.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Right, they don't burn it to make it taste better
> >>>>>>>>>> Exactly. Because if you are used to raw meat taste, you will not like
> >>>>>>>>>> burned meat better.
> >>>>>>>>> Cats like my hamburgers well done.
> >>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/YSd413Xrk_Q
> >>>>>>>>> Only if you are used to burned meat from the very
> >>>>>>>>>> beginning.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> As I said, humans cooked terrestrial meat to return it to living temperature, but didn't cook seafood since it was coldblooded.
> >>>>>>>> You have very good imagination, but this is pure bollocks.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks, a good scientist uses imagination as a software tool, like language.
> >>>>>>> Hard: obsidian
> >>>>>>> Tough: rubber
> >>>>>>> Hard and tough: steel
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rocks don't burn, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if they would burn, we still can jump into sea.
> >>>>
> >>> Be logical. To make an obsidian blade, one must knap it from the side. You can't knap it with meat, it won't chip off, it will cut through.
> >> I don't play Russian roulette. You say, well, there is only 1 chance
> >> in 6 that I'll die, so odds are on my side. I'd rather chop off meat
> >> with my teeth, until people invent hematite.
> >> https://youtu.be/OUZeDOaheUE
> >>
> > A BULLET TO YOUR BRAIN WOULD DO NO DAMAGE.
> The bullet would be hurt.
>
> --
> https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
> human-e...@googlegroups.com
I'll get the obsidian scalpel ready.

On 24.11.2021. 3:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 23, 2021 at 4:25:27 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>> On 23.11.2021. 13:03, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>> On 23.11.2021. 2:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 8:09:06 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>> On 22.11.2021. 22:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 11:40:08 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 22.11.2021. 15:10, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:47:55 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particles in meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your hands.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
>>>>>>>>>>>> We are talking about first apes,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.
>>>>>>>>>> I would start from the beginning.
>>>>>>>>> Of what?
>>>>>>>> Of meat eating.
>>>>>>>>>>> who didn't look like orangutans, but,
>>>>>>>>>>>> like us. They had thick enamel, this is why orangutan *still* has thick
>>>>>>>>>>>> enamel. This is a vestigial trait.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Orangutans eat hard nuts and fruits, gorillas don't, chimps and humans use tools but chewed a lot until milling advanced.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't have carnassials you cannot eat what you pierced.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin slices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A sharp obsidian flake slices thinly through flesh & sinew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way that I would eat this flesh.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tartare.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you crazy? Ok, if this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obsidian is made industrially, and I have a guarantee that everything is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alright with it, it is grounded smoothly. Obsidian used by our ancestors
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't anything like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shearing. Stone? It will break your teeth?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What? Obsidian slicing meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian? It will cut your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't eat stone, eat meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try it yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't understand meat processing & eating. Do you worry about metal or plastic fragments & particles when using fork & spoon?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course I don't, because (ground) metal doesn't shutter.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian is brittle laterally (bending to the side), but perfect cutting straight through meat.
>>>>>>>>>> It is brittle glass. It would cut throat.
>>>>>>>>> Perfect for cutting meat.
>>>>>>>> Cutting, yes. Inedible meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shatter? Flint knives don't shatter cutting meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It will (from time to time), it is brittle. It is enough to shatter
>>>>>>>>>>>> once, to brake my tooth.
>>>>>>>>> Then you pushed the blade laterally or hit the bone and pried or twisted the blade.
>>>>>>>> Or anything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you ever touched obsidian?
>>>>>>> You seem very uninformed about it.
>>>>>>> Did you confuse it with something else?
>>>>>> No, I never touched obsidian, I really am uninformed about it. I think
>>>>>> that it is a form of glass. This is why it is so sharp.
>>>>>> I am absolutely convinced that it is gravely dangerous to eat meat cut
>>>>>> by Stone Age obsidian tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who doesn't understand anything. By grinding hematite you get ochre. Red
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ochre is the evidence that we ground metal. Metal becomes sharp by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinding, but it doesn't shutter after that. Good morning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Metal? Now, that's much better, but it only came in Middle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paleolithic, along with Homo sapiens. This is why Homo sapiens has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes in chopping apparatus. With metal we chopped off meat from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carcass. But, that's about it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, before the first tools, we had to have fire. Fire was the tool to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soften up meat. Why would you pierce an animal, if you cannot eat its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meat? For hides? No. Before Oldowan tools we had to have fire,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise, why would we hunt animals in the first place?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin-sliced & ground-up meat, chewing gum style.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And this logical net *proves* how Science is *shallow*. They have all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those stories about our past, without even thinking to resolve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "carnassial" problem. You cannot eat meat without carnassials, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without fire. Full stop.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sharp cutting into slices, then chewing like bubblegum.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cold-blooded oysters, crab, shrimp were not cooked, because their flesh was never hot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm blooded rabbits, antelope, pigs were cooked to bring the meat back to life-like temperature, cold meat did not taste as good. Those who cooked thin sliced meat reduced food-borne parasites so their progeny were healthier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody ate big chunks of meat, cooked or uncooked, not edible. Mammoth was thin-sliced.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate shellfish raw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate everything raw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, you only lack the evidence for this claim.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since tetrapods left the sea, raw food was the norm.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not for humans, as we can see.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Because humans quit swinging and started cutting.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We burned surroundings for safety, not for food.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, this burning gave us food. So, this is how we acquired eating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned food.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Silly fantasy. You burn your house down and then eat the burnt rats?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What house? We were living on rocky sea cliffs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas don't burn down the forest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no forest where Geladas live, there is only grass. And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas eat grass.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, they don't burn it to make it taste better
>>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly. Because if you are used to raw meat taste, you will not like
>>>>>>>>>>>> burned meat better.
>>>>>>>>>>> Cats like my hamburgers well done.
>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/YSd413Xrk_Q
>>>>>>>>>>> Only if you are used to burned meat from the very
>>>>>>>>>>>> beginning.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As I said, humans cooked terrestrial meat to return it to living temperature, but didn't cook seafood since it was coldblooded.
>>>>>>>>>> You have very good imagination, but this is pure bollocks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, a good scientist uses imagination as a software tool, like language.
>>>>>>>>> Hard: obsidian
>>>>>>>>> Tough: rubber
>>>>>>>>> Hard and tough: steel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rocks don't burn, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if they would burn, we still can jump into sea.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Be logical. To make an obsidian blade, one must knap it from the side. You can't knap it with meat, it won't chip off, it will cut through.
>>>> I don't play Russian roulette. You say, well, there is only 1 chance
>>>> in 6 that I'll die, so odds are on my side. I'd rather chop off meat
>>>> with my teeth, until people invent hematite.
>>>> https://youtu.be/OUZeDOaheUE
>>>>
>>> A BULLET TO YOUR BRAIN WOULD DO NO DAMAGE.
>> The bullet would be hurt.
>>
> I'll get the obsidian scalpel ready.

On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 1:33:53 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> On 24.11.2021. 3:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 23, 2021 at 4:25:27 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >> On 23.11.2021. 13:03, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>> On 23.11.2021. 2:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 8:09:06 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>> On 22.11.2021. 22:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 11:40:08 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 22.11.2021. 15:10, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:47:55 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> particles in meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your hands.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably not.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this reason.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> We are talking about first apes,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.
> >>>>>>>>>> I would start from the beginning.
> >>>>>>>>> Of what?
> >>>>>>>> Of meat eating.
> >>>>>>>>>>> who didn't look like orangutans, but,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> like us. They had thick enamel, this is why orangutan *still* has thick
> >>>>>>>>>>>> enamel. This is a vestigial trait.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Orangutans eat hard nuts and fruits, gorillas don't, chimps and humans use tools but chewed a lot until milling advanced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't have carnassials you cannot eat what you pierced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin slices.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A sharp obsidian flake slices thinly through flesh & sinew.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way that I would eat this flesh.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tartare.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you crazy? Ok, if this
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obsidian is made industrially, and I have a guarantee that everything is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alright with it, it is grounded smoothly. Obsidian used by our ancestors
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't anything like that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shearing. Stone? It will break your teeth?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What? Obsidian slicing meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian? It will cut your
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't eat stone, eat meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try it yourself.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't understand meat processing & eating. Do you worry about metal or plastic fragments & particles when using fork & spoon?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course I don't, because (ground) metal doesn't shutter.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian is brittle laterally (bending to the side), but perfect cutting straight through meat.
> >>>>>>>>>> It is brittle glass. It would cut throat.
> >>>>>>>>> Perfect for cutting meat.
> >>>>>>>> Cutting, yes. Inedible meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Shatter? Flint knives don't shatter cutting meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> It will (from time to time), it is brittle. It is enough to shatter
> >>>>>>>>>>>> once, to brake my tooth.
> >>>>>>>>> Then you pushed the blade laterally or hit the bone and pried or twisted the blade.
> >>>>>>>> Or anything.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Have you ever touched obsidian?
> >>>>>>> You seem very uninformed about it.
> >>>>>>> Did you confuse it with something else?
> >>>>>> No, I never touched obsidian, I really am uninformed about it. I think
> >>>>>> that it is a form of glass. This is why it is so sharp.
> >>>>>> I am absolutely convinced that it is gravely dangerous to eat meat cut
> >>>>>> by Stone Age obsidian tools.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It is you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> who doesn't understand anything. By grinding hematite you get ochre. Red
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ochre is the evidence that we ground metal. Metal becomes sharp by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinding, but it doesn't shutter after that. Good morning.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Metal? Now, that's much better, but it only came in Middle
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paleolithic, along with Homo sapiens. This is why Homo sapiens has
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes in chopping apparatus. With metal we chopped off meat from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carcass. But, that's about it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, before the first tools, we had to have fire. Fire was the tool to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soften up meat. Why would you pierce an animal, if you cannot eat its
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meat? For hides? No. Before Oldowan tools we had to have fire,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise, why would we hunt animals in the first place?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin-sliced & ground-up meat, chewing gum style.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And this logical net *proves* how Science is *shallow*. They have all
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those stories about our past, without even thinking to resolve the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "carnassial" problem. You cannot eat meat without carnassials, or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without fire. Full stop.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Sharp cutting into slices, then chewing like bubblegum.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cold-blooded oysters, crab, shrimp were not cooked, because their flesh was never hot.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm blooded rabbits, antelope, pigs were cooked to bring the meat back to life-like temperature, cold meat did not taste as good. Those who cooked thin sliced meat reduced food-borne parasites so their progeny were healthier.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody ate big chunks of meat, cooked or uncooked, not edible. Mammoth was thin-sliced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate shellfish raw.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate everything raw.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, you only lack the evidence for this claim.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Since tetrapods left the sea, raw food was the norm.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Not for humans, as we can see.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Because humans quit swinging and started cutting.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We burned surroundings for safety, not for food.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, this burning gave us food. So, this is how we acquired eating
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned food.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Silly fantasy. You burn your house down and then eat the burnt rats?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What house? We were living on rocky sea cliffs,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas don't burn down the forest.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no forest where Geladas live, there is only grass. And
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas eat grass.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, they don't burn it to make it taste better
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly. Because if you are used to raw meat taste, you will not like
> >>>>>>>>>>>> burned meat better.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Cats like my hamburgers well done.
> >>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/YSd413Xrk_Q
> >>>>>>>>>>> Only if you are used to burned meat from the very
> >>>>>>>>>>>> beginning.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> As I said, humans cooked terrestrial meat to return it to living temperature, but didn't cook seafood since it was coldblooded.
> >>>>>>>>>> You have very good imagination, but this is pure bollocks.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, a good scientist uses imagination as a software tool, like language.
> >>>>>>>>> Hard: obsidian
> >>>>>>>>> Tough: rubber
> >>>>>>>>> Hard and tough: steel
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rocks don't burn, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if they would burn, we still can jump into sea.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Be logical. To make an obsidian blade, one must knap it from the side. You can't knap it with meat, it won't chip off, it will cut through.
> >>>> I don't play Russian roulette. You say, well, there is only 1 chance
> >>>> in 6 that I'll die, so odds are on my side. I'd rather chop off meat
> >>>> with my teeth, until people invent hematite.
> >>>> https://youtu.be/OUZeDOaheUE
> >>>>
> >>> A BULLET TO YOUR BRAIN WOULD DO NO DAMAGE.
> >> The bullet would be hurt.
> >>
> > I'll get the obsidian scalpel ready.
> Just careful with that obsidian scalpel, Daud.
> https://youtu.be/YtZqNAI4pBk
>
> --
> https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
> human-e...@googlegroups.com

On 25.11.2021. 2:17, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 1:33:53 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>> On 24.11.2021. 3:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, November 23, 2021 at 4:25:27 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>> On 23.11.2021. 13:03, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>> On 23.11.2021. 2:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 8:09:06 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 22.11.2021. 22:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 11:40:08 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 22.11.2021. 15:10, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:47:55 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particles in meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your hands.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are talking about first apes,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would start from the beginning.
>>>>>>>>>>> Of what?
>>>>>>>>>> Of meat eating.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> who didn't look like orangutans, but,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like us. They had thick enamel, this is why orangutan *still* has thick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enamel. This is a vestigial trait.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orangutans eat hard nuts and fruits, gorillas don't, chimps and humans use tools but chewed a lot until milling advanced.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't have carnassials you cannot eat what you pierced.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin slices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A sharp obsidian flake slices thinly through flesh & sinew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way that I would eat this flesh.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tartare.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you crazy? Ok, if this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obsidian is made industrially, and I have a guarantee that everything is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alright with it, it is grounded smoothly. Obsidian used by our ancestors
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't anything like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shearing. Stone? It will break your teeth?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What? Obsidian slicing meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian? It will cut your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't eat stone, eat meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try it yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't understand meat processing & eating. Do you worry about metal or plastic fragments & particles when using fork & spoon?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course I don't, because (ground) metal doesn't shutter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian is brittle laterally (bending to the side), but perfect cutting straight through meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is brittle glass. It would cut throat.
>>>>>>>>>>> Perfect for cutting meat.
>>>>>>>>>> Cutting, yes. Inedible meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shatter? Flint knives don't shatter cutting meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It will (from time to time), it is brittle. It is enough to shatter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once, to brake my tooth.
>>>>>>>>>>> Then you pushed the blade laterally or hit the bone and pried or twisted the blade.
>>>>>>>>>> Or anything.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Have you ever touched obsidian?
>>>>>>>>> You seem very uninformed about it.
>>>>>>>>> Did you confuse it with something else?
>>>>>>>> No, I never touched obsidian, I really am uninformed about it. I think
>>>>>>>> that it is a form of glass. This is why it is so sharp.
>>>>>>>> I am absolutely convinced that it is gravely dangerous to eat meat cut
>>>>>>>> by Stone Age obsidian tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who doesn't understand anything. By grinding hematite you get ochre. Red
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ochre is the evidence that we ground metal. Metal becomes sharp by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinding, but it doesn't shutter after that. Good morning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Metal? Now, that's much better, but it only came in Middle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paleolithic, along with Homo sapiens. This is why Homo sapiens has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes in chopping apparatus. With metal we chopped off meat from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carcass. But, that's about it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, before the first tools, we had to have fire. Fire was the tool to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soften up meat. Why would you pierce an animal, if you cannot eat its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meat? For hides? No. Before Oldowan tools we had to have fire,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise, why would we hunt animals in the first place?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin-sliced & ground-up meat, chewing gum style.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And this logical net *proves* how Science is *shallow*. They have all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those stories about our past, without even thinking to resolve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "carnassial" problem. You cannot eat meat without carnassials, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without fire. Full stop.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sharp cutting into slices, then chewing like bubblegum.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cold-blooded oysters, crab, shrimp were not cooked, because their flesh was never hot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm blooded rabbits, antelope, pigs were cooked to bring the meat back to life-like temperature, cold meat did not taste as good. Those who cooked thin sliced meat reduced food-borne parasites so their progeny were healthier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody ate big chunks of meat, cooked or uncooked, not edible. Mammoth was thin-sliced.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate shellfish raw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate everything raw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, you only lack the evidence for this claim.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since tetrapods left the sea, raw food was the norm.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not for humans, as we can see.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because humans quit swinging and started cutting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We burned surroundings for safety, not for food.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, this burning gave us food. So, this is how we acquired eating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned food.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Silly fantasy. You burn your house down and then eat the burnt rats?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What house? We were living on rocky sea cliffs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas don't burn down the forest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no forest where Geladas live, there is only grass. And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas eat grass.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, they don't burn it to make it taste better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly. Because if you are used to raw meat taste, you will not like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned meat better.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cats like my hamburgers well done.
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/YSd413Xrk_Q
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only if you are used to burned meat from the very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beginning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said, humans cooked terrestrial meat to return it to living temperature, but didn't cook seafood since it was coldblooded.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You have very good imagination, but this is pure bollocks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, a good scientist uses imagination as a software tool, like language.
>>>>>>>>>>> Hard: obsidian
>>>>>>>>>>> Tough: rubber
>>>>>>>>>>> Hard and tough: steel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rocks don't burn, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if they would burn, we still can jump into sea.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Be logical. To make an obsidian blade, one must knap it from the side. You can't knap it with meat, it won't chip off, it will cut through.
>>>>>> I don't play Russian roulette. You say, well, there is only 1 chance
>>>>>> in 6 that I'll die, so odds are on my side. I'd rather chop off meat
>>>>>> with my teeth, until people invent hematite.
>>>>>> https://youtu.be/OUZeDOaheUE
>>>>>>
>>>>> A BULLET TO YOUR BRAIN WOULD DO NO DAMAGE.
>>>> The bullet would be hurt.
>>>>
>>> I'll get the obsidian scalpel ready.
>> Just careful with that obsidian scalpel, Daud.
>> https://youtu.be/YtZqNAI4pBk
>
> NOTE: MY PHONE IS WRITING ONLY IN CAPITOL LETTERS. I'M NOT SHOUTING.
> IT'S HAFTED.

On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 9:06:01 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> On 25.11.2021. 2:17, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 1:33:53 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >> On 24.11.2021. 3:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, November 23, 2021 at 4:25:27 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>> On 23.11.2021. 13:03, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>> On 23.11.2021. 2:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 8:09:06 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 22.11.2021. 22:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 11:40:08 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 22.11.2021. 15:10, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:47:55 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particles in meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your hands.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably not.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this reason.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are talking about first apes,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I would start from the beginning.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Of what?
> >>>>>>>>>> Of meat eating.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> who didn't look like orangutans, but,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like us. They had thick enamel, this is why orangutan *still* has thick
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> enamel. This is a vestigial trait.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Orangutans eat hard nuts and fruits, gorillas don't, chimps and humans use tools but chewed a lot until milling advanced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't have carnassials you cannot eat what you pierced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin slices.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A sharp obsidian flake slices thinly through flesh & sinew.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way that I would eat this flesh.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tartare.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you crazy? Ok, if this
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obsidian is made industrially, and I have a guarantee that everything is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alright with it, it is grounded smoothly. Obsidian used by our ancestors
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't anything like that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shearing. Stone? It will break your teeth?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What? Obsidian slicing meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian? It will cut your
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't eat stone, eat meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try it yourself.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't understand meat processing & eating. Do you worry about metal or plastic fragments & particles when using fork & spoon?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course I don't, because (ground) metal doesn't shutter.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian is brittle laterally (bending to the side), but perfect cutting straight through meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> It is brittle glass. It would cut throat.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Perfect for cutting meat.
> >>>>>>>>>> Cutting, yes. Inedible meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shatter? Flint knives don't shatter cutting meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It will (from time to time), it is brittle. It is enough to shatter
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> once, to brake my tooth.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Then you pushed the blade laterally or hit the bone and pried or twisted the blade.
> >>>>>>>>>> Or anything.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Have you ever touched obsidian?
> >>>>>>>>> You seem very uninformed about it.
> >>>>>>>>> Did you confuse it with something else?
> >>>>>>>> No, I never touched obsidian, I really am uninformed about it. I think
> >>>>>>>> that it is a form of glass. This is why it is so sharp.
> >>>>>>>> I am absolutely convinced that it is gravely dangerous to eat meat cut
> >>>>>>>> by Stone Age obsidian tools.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who doesn't understand anything. By grinding hematite you get ochre. Red
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ochre is the evidence that we ground metal. Metal becomes sharp by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinding, but it doesn't shutter after that. Good morning.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Metal? Now, that's much better, but it only came in Middle
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paleolithic, along with Homo sapiens. This is why Homo sapiens has
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes in chopping apparatus. With metal we chopped off meat from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carcass. But, that's about it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, before the first tools, we had to have fire. Fire was the tool to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soften up meat. Why would you pierce an animal, if you cannot eat its
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meat? For hides? No. Before Oldowan tools we had to have fire,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise, why would we hunt animals in the first place?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin-sliced & ground-up meat, chewing gum style.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And this logical net *proves* how Science is *shallow*. They have all
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those stories about our past, without even thinking to resolve the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "carnassial" problem. You cannot eat meat without carnassials, or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without fire. Full stop.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sharp cutting into slices, then chewing like bubblegum.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cold-blooded oysters, crab, shrimp were not cooked, because their flesh was never hot.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm blooded rabbits, antelope, pigs were cooked to bring the meat back to life-like temperature, cold meat did not taste as good. Those who cooked thin sliced meat reduced food-borne parasites so their progeny were healthier.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody ate big chunks of meat, cooked or uncooked, not edible. Mammoth was thin-sliced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate shellfish raw.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate everything raw.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, you only lack the evidence for this claim.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since tetrapods left the sea, raw food was the norm.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not for humans, as we can see.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Because humans quit swinging and started cutting.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We burned surroundings for safety, not for food.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, this burning gave us food. So, this is how we acquired eating
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned food.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Silly fantasy. You burn your house down and then eat the burnt rats?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What house? We were living on rocky sea cliffs,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas don't burn down the forest.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no forest where Geladas live, there is only grass. And
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas eat grass.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, they don't burn it to make it taste better
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly. Because if you are used to raw meat taste, you will not like
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned meat better.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cats like my hamburgers well done.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/YSd413Xrk_Q
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Only if you are used to burned meat from the very
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> beginning.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said, humans cooked terrestrial meat to return it to living temperature, but didn't cook seafood since it was coldblooded.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> You have very good imagination, but this is pure bollocks.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, a good scientist uses imagination as a software tool, like language.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hard: obsidian
> >>>>>>>>>>> Tough: rubber
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hard and tough: steel
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rocks don't burn, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if they would burn, we still can jump into sea.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Be logical. To make an obsidian blade, one must knap it from the side. You can't knap it with meat, it won't chip off, it will cut through.
> >>>>>> I don't play Russian roulette. You say, well, there is only 1 chance
> >>>>>> in 6 that I'll die, so odds are on my side. I'd rather chop off meat
> >>>>>> with my teeth, until people invent hematite.
> >>>>>> https://youtu.be/OUZeDOaheUE
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> A BULLET TO YOUR BRAIN WOULD DO NO DAMAGE.
> >>>> The bullet would be hurt.
> >>>>
> >>> I'll get the obsidian scalpel ready.
> >> Just careful with that obsidian scalpel, Daud.
> >> https://youtu.be/YtZqNAI4pBk
> >
> > NOTE: MY PHONE IS WRITING ONLY IN CAPITOL LETTERS. I'M NOT SHOUTING.
> > IT'S HAFTED.
> I hope that it reads small letters. Otherwise, not strange that you
> don't understand what I am talking about.
>
> --
> https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
> human-e...@googlegroups.com
I DON'T SPEAK CROAtIAn. YET.

On 25.11.2021. 13:44, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 9:06:01 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>> On 25.11.2021. 2:17, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 1:33:53 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>> On 24.11.2021. 3:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, November 23, 2021 at 4:25:27 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>> On 23.11.2021. 13:03, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 23.11.2021. 2:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 8:09:06 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 22.11.2021. 22:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 11:40:08 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22.11.2021. 15:10, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:47:55 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particles in meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your hands.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are talking about first apes,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would start from the beginning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of what?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of meat eating.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who didn't look like orangutans, but,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like us. They had thick enamel, this is why orangutan *still* has thick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enamel. This is a vestigial trait.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orangutans eat hard nuts and fruits, gorillas don't, chimps and humans use tools but chewed a lot until milling advanced.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't have carnassials you cannot eat what you pierced.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin slices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A sharp obsidian flake slices thinly through flesh & sinew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way that I would eat this flesh.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tartare.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you crazy? Ok, if this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obsidian is made industrially, and I have a guarantee that everything is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alright with it, it is grounded smoothly. Obsidian used by our ancestors
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't anything like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shearing. Stone? It will break your teeth?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What? Obsidian slicing meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian? It will cut your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't eat stone, eat meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try it yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't understand meat processing & eating. Do you worry about metal or plastic fragments & particles when using fork & spoon?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course I don't, because (ground) metal doesn't shutter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian is brittle laterally (bending to the side), but perfect cutting straight through meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is brittle glass. It would cut throat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perfect for cutting meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cutting, yes. Inedible meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shatter? Flint knives don't shatter cutting meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It will (from time to time), it is brittle. It is enough to shatter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once, to brake my tooth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then you pushed the blade laterally or hit the bone and pried or twisted the blade.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Or anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever touched obsidian?
>>>>>>>>>>> You seem very uninformed about it.
>>>>>>>>>>> Did you confuse it with something else?
>>>>>>>>>> No, I never touched obsidian, I really am uninformed about it. I think
>>>>>>>>>> that it is a form of glass. This is why it is so sharp.
>>>>>>>>>> I am absolutely convinced that it is gravely dangerous to eat meat cut
>>>>>>>>>> by Stone Age obsidian tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who doesn't understand anything. By grinding hematite you get ochre. Red
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ochre is the evidence that we ground metal. Metal becomes sharp by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinding, but it doesn't shutter after that. Good morning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Metal? Now, that's much better, but it only came in Middle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paleolithic, along with Homo sapiens. This is why Homo sapiens has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes in chopping apparatus. With metal we chopped off meat from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carcass. But, that's about it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, before the first tools, we had to have fire. Fire was the tool to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soften up meat. Why would you pierce an animal, if you cannot eat its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meat? For hides? No. Before Oldowan tools we had to have fire,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise, why would we hunt animals in the first place?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin-sliced & ground-up meat, chewing gum style.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And this logical net *proves* how Science is *shallow*. They have all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those stories about our past, without even thinking to resolve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "carnassial" problem. You cannot eat meat without carnassials, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without fire. Full stop.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sharp cutting into slices, then chewing like bubblegum.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cold-blooded oysters, crab, shrimp were not cooked, because their flesh was never hot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm blooded rabbits, antelope, pigs were cooked to bring the meat back to life-like temperature, cold meat did not taste as good. Those who cooked thin sliced meat reduced food-borne parasites so their progeny were healthier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody ate big chunks of meat, cooked or uncooked, not edible. Mammoth was thin-sliced.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate shellfish raw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate everything raw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, you only lack the evidence for this claim.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since tetrapods left the sea, raw food was the norm.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not for humans, as we can see.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because humans quit swinging and started cutting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We burned surroundings for safety, not for food.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, this burning gave us food. So, this is how we acquired eating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned food.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Silly fantasy. You burn your house down and then eat the burnt rats?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What house? We were living on rocky sea cliffs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas don't burn down the forest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no forest where Geladas live, there is only grass. And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas eat grass.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, they don't burn it to make it taste better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly. Because if you are used to raw meat taste, you will not like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned meat better.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cats like my hamburgers well done.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/YSd413Xrk_Q
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only if you are used to burned meat from the very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beginning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said, humans cooked terrestrial meat to return it to living temperature, but didn't cook seafood since it was coldblooded.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have very good imagination, but this is pure bollocks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, a good scientist uses imagination as a software tool, like language.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hard: obsidian
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tough: rubber
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hard and tough: steel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rocks don't burn, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if they would burn, we still can jump into sea.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Be logical. To make an obsidian blade, one must knap it from the side. You can't knap it with meat, it won't chip off, it will cut through.
>>>>>>>> I don't play Russian roulette. You say, well, there is only 1 chance
>>>>>>>> in 6 that I'll die, so odds are on my side. I'd rather chop off meat
>>>>>>>> with my teeth, until people invent hematite.
>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/OUZeDOaheUE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A BULLET TO YOUR BRAIN WOULD DO NO DAMAGE.
>>>>>> The bullet would be hurt.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'll get the obsidian scalpel ready.
>>>> Just careful with that obsidian scalpel, Daud.
>>>> https://youtu.be/YtZqNAI4pBk
>>>
>>> NOTE: MY PHONE IS WRITING ONLY IN CAPITOL LETTERS. I'M NOT SHOUTING.
>>> IT'S HAFTED.
>> I hope that it reads small letters. Otherwise, not strange that you
>> don't understand what I am talking about.
>>
> I DON'T SPEAK CROAtIAn. YET.

On Thursday, November 25, 2021 at 3:10:09 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> On 25.11.2021. 13:44, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 9:06:01 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >> On 25.11.2021. 2:17, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 1:33:53 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>> On 24.11.2021. 3:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, November 23, 2021 at 4:25:27 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>> On 23.11.2021. 13:03, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 23.11.2021. 2:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 8:09:06 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 22.11.2021. 22:39, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 11:40:08 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 22.11.2021. 15:10, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:47:55 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 21.11.2021. 18:35, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 22:30, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 9:35:09 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20.11.2021. 8:16, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:45:04 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19.11.2021. 8:07, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18.11.2021. 10:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:59:14 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 22:08, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 17.11.2021. 8:02, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only imbeciles believe their ancestors could never have slept on water.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On topic:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211111154244.htm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's well possible that tool use & speech co-evolved (late-Pleistocene?):
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both find their origin partly in our Pleistocene shellfish-diving past:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -stone tool use for opening shells, cf sea-otters,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -voluntary breathing for shallow-diving,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -large brain thanks to seafood, e.g. DHA,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lip-tongue-throat movemensts for suction feeding.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "speech language origins PPT verhaegen".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stone tools have sharp edge. This is like broken shellfish.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not so sharp. Conchoidal fracture of flint is much sharper than broken clam.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just the other way around, every shellfish, broken on any way, is very
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are comparing natural shell to knapped stone?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, for god's sake, why would I compare natural shells to metal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives? Yes, today we are using metal knives and not natural shells,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this isn't a question. The question we are trying to answer in this news
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group is, how all this *started*. Why we *started* to knap stones in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first place? We just saw stones around, and decided, why wouldn't we
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knap them, just for fun?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stones as hammers against stone anvils sometimes shatter producing sharp edges. The nut meat is still edible.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the alternative was cracking nuts with teeth, risking broken jaw or teeth, hammering is more efficient.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe people have problems grasping this. Not every stone is the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same. Some stones easily shutter, some don't. Flint easily shutters. I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that basalt stones don't. You can crack nuts with those that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't, but those don't produce sharp edges, those that shutter produce
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharp edges. So, you cannot cut meat with a stone. Those that don't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shutter aren't sharp, those that shutter are sharp, but can leave stone
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particles in meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am talking about eating meat. Primates don't eat meat, we do. Hence
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our diet moved in the direction of meat eating.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, from my experience, the flint that yo can find
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in nature isn't very sharp. I wouldn't say that you encounter a lot of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conchoidally fractured flint in nature. And even if there is one around,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why would you have it in your hand? On the other hand, if you are eating
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shellfish, you handle sharp broken shellfish all the time, and they are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your hands.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your objection is very nice example of how somebody can be biased in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his interpretation of nature.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably not.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You completely ignored the obvious, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you extremely emphasized some sideway thing.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main thing in stone tools isn't to be used as a hammer. Stone (unmade,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raw) can be used as a hammer, you don't need stone tool for that. Stone
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools are made to be used as a cutting device.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The paradox is that for cutting (sharp edge), you need to have sharp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> edge. So, the idea originated in the usage of sharp edges. But, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldowan tools are made out of pebbles, and pebbles are about the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluntest objects in nature, not the sharpest. So, the development of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage of sharp edges should happen before Oldowan stone tools.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Molar hammering crushing cracking
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carnassial. shearing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incisor gnawing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canine tearing, piercing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homo replicated these functions by hand using various materials
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way. Which materials?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sticks and stones mostly.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/iv25o_zzqrE
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hammerstone & anvil stone/log replaced big molars, allowed processing extremely tough nuts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares. We do have Oldowan stone tools for 2.5 my. We used it for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dealing with wood, hides, we weren't vegetarians.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever eaten nuts?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nut cracking, clam cracking...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Antlers? With antlers you can pierce. But, what's the use of piercing?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stabbing to kill prey. Replace fangs with spear allows further distance from prey's defensive weapons.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hm, why would we stab the prey if we cannot eat it, for god's sake?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stab, kill, slice, eat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped stone flakes slice thin meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And leave stone particles in that meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only if hit against hard bone. If slicing flesh, no chips unless flake is from poor stone.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What bloody "poor stone"? Every stone that can be sharp is "poor
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stone", this goes hand in hand. It is sharp because it is "poor".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knapped flakes are made of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brittle type of stones, otherwise you wouldn't be able to knap it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittle, it means that it shutters
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean splinters? Only if hit hard against bone or if stone flake is from poor stone source.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easily. I wouldn't eat meat with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those tiny particles in it, if I want my teeth to remain whole.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then don't eat gritty shellfish, lots of quartzite grit. I ate some from a tin can, so much sandy grit.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is why I did acquire the trait of thick enamel, precisely for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this reason.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like orangutans, who never eat shellfish?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are talking about first apes,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm talking about human ancestors who had complex language software tool associated with complex stick and stone artifacts hardware tools.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would start from the beginning.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of what?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Of meat eating.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who didn't look like orangutans, but,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like us. They had thick enamel, this is why orangutan *still* has thick
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enamel. This is a vestigial trait.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orangutans eat hard nuts and fruits, gorillas don't, chimps and humans use tools but chewed a lot until milling advanced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't have carnassials you cannot eat what you pierced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin slices.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A sharp obsidian flake slices thinly through flesh & sinew.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way that I would eat this flesh.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tartare.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you crazy? Ok, if this
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obsidian is made industrially, and I have a guarantee that everything is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alright with it, it is grounded smoothly. Obsidian used by our ancestors
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't anything like that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shearing. Stone? It will break your teeth?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What? Obsidian slicing meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian? It will cut your
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't eat stone, eat meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try it yourself.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't understand meat processing & eating. Do you worry about metal or plastic fragments & particles when using fork & spoon?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course I don't, because (ground) metal doesn't shutter.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obsidian is brittle laterally (bending to the side), but perfect cutting straight through meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is brittle glass. It would cut throat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Perfect for cutting meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cutting, yes. Inedible meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shatter? Flint knives don't shatter cutting meat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It will (from time to time), it is brittle. It is enough to shatter
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once, to brake my tooth.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Then you pushed the blade laterally or hit the bone and pried or twisted the blade.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Or anything.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever touched obsidian?
> >>>>>>>>>>> You seem very uninformed about it.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Did you confuse it with something else?
> >>>>>>>>>> No, I never touched obsidian, I really am uninformed about it. I think
> >>>>>>>>>> that it is a form of glass. This is why it is so sharp.
> >>>>>>>>>> I am absolutely convinced that it is gravely dangerous to eat meat cut
> >>>>>>>>>> by Stone Age obsidian tools.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who doesn't understand anything. By grinding hematite you get ochre. Red
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ochre is the evidence that we ground metal. Metal becomes sharp by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinding, but it doesn't shutter after that. Good morning.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Metal? Now, that's much better, but it only came in Middle
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paleolithic, along with Homo sapiens. This is why Homo sapiens has
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes in chopping apparatus. With metal we chopped off meat from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carcass. But, that's about it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, before the first tools, we had to have fire. Fire was the tool to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soften up meat. Why would you pierce an animal, if you cannot eat its
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meat? For hides? No. Before Oldowan tools we had to have fire,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise, why would we hunt animals in the first place?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thin-sliced & ground-up meat, chewing gum style.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And this logical net *proves* how Science is *shallow*. They have all
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those stories about our past, without even thinking to resolve the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "carnassial" problem. You cannot eat meat without carnassials, or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without fire. Full stop.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sharp cutting into slices, then chewing like bubblegum.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cold-blooded oysters, crab, shrimp were not cooked, because their flesh was never hot.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm blooded rabbits, antelope, pigs were cooked to bring the meat back to life-like temperature, cold meat did not taste as good. Those who cooked thin sliced meat reduced food-borne parasites so their progeny were healthier.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody ate big chunks of meat, cooked or uncooked, not edible. Mammoth was thin-sliced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate shellfish raw.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ate everything raw.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, you only lack the evidence for this claim.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since tetrapods left the sea, raw food was the norm.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not for humans, as we can see.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because humans quit swinging and started cutting.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We burned surroundings for safety, not for food.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, this burning gave us food. So, this is how we acquired eating
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned food.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Silly fantasy. You burn your house down and then eat the burnt rats?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What house? We were living on rocky sea cliffs,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas don't burn down the forest.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no forest where Geladas live, there is only grass. And
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geladas eat grass.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, they don't burn it to make it taste better
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly. Because if you are used to raw meat taste, you will not like
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burned meat better.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cats like my hamburgers well done.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/YSd413Xrk_Q
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only if you are used to burned meat from the very
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beginning.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said, humans cooked terrestrial meat to return it to living temperature, but didn't cook seafood since it was coldblooded.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have very good imagination, but this is pure bollocks.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, a good scientist uses imagination as a software tool, like language.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hard: obsidian
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tough: rubber
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hard and tough: steel
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rocks don't burn, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if they would burn, we still can jump into sea.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Be logical. To make an obsidian blade, one must knap it from the side. You can't knap it with meat, it won't chip off, it will cut through.
> >>>>>>>> I don't play Russian roulette. You say, well, there is only 1 chance
> >>>>>>>> in 6 that I'll die, so odds are on my side. I'd rather chop off meat
> >>>>>>>> with my teeth, until people invent hematite.
> >>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/OUZeDOaheUE
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> A BULLET TO YOUR BRAIN WOULD DO NO DAMAGE.
> >>>>>> The bullet would be hurt.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> I'll get the obsidian scalpel ready.
> >>>> Just careful with that obsidian scalpel, Daud.
> >>>> https://youtu.be/YtZqNAI4pBk
> >>>
> >>> NOTE: MY PHONE IS WRITING ONLY IN CAPITOL LETTERS. I'M NOT SHOUTING.
> >>> IT'S HAFTED.
> >> I hope that it reads small letters. Otherwise, not strange that you
> >> don't understand what I am talking about.
> >>
> > I DON'T SPEAK CROAtIAn. YET.
> Ah, I see.
> But, you do smoke ganga, don't you?
>
> --
> https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
> human-e...@googlegroups.com
Only if I had an obsidian pipe.