Problem started a few months ago.

Starts fine when it's cold. When it's warm, turned off for ~15 to 39
minutes and is still warm, it cranks for a long time as if it's flooded
and there's a strong smell of gas -- but no leakage to the ground. When
it finally catches, it runs really slow and you have to be really
careful about feeding in more gas for perhaps half a minute.

Tapping the distributor while cranking resulted in an immediate start
once. So did leaving the gas cap loose a few times. Sometimes it
starts OK when warm, but mostly not. Replaced the fuel pump, but no
change.

Now he carries a spare battery and jumper cables just in case. This is
maddening. Any ideas?

--
Cheers, Bev
Everyone crashes. Some get back on. Some don't. Some can't.

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>Starts fine when it's cold. When it's warm, turned off for ~15 to 39
>minutes and is still warm, it cranks for a long time as if it's flooded
>and there's a strong smell of gas -- but no leakage to the ground. When
>it finally catches, it runs really slow and you have to be really
>careful about feeding in more gas for perhaps half a minute.
>
>Now he carries a spare battery and jumper cables just in case. This is
> maddening. Any ideas?

When it happens, is there spark?

When it happens, is there any voltage on coil primary?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 07/07/2021 02:15 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Starts fine when it's cold. When it's warm, turned off for ~15 to 39
>>minutes and is still warm, it cranks for a long time as if it's flooded
>>and there's a strong smell of gas -- but no leakage to the ground. When
>>it finally catches, it runs really slow and you have to be really
>>careful about feeding in more gas for perhaps half a minute.
>>
>>Now he carries a spare battery and jumper cables just in case. This is
>> maddening. Any ideas?
>
> When it happens, is there spark?

Doesn't seem to be.

> When it happens, is there any voltage on coil primary?

He hasn't found the coil yet :-(

SOMETIMES it starts when hot with no problem at all :-(

I've never heard an engine sound like it does when it catches but is
running really slow and trying to REALLY start.

--
Cheers, Bev
"We don't know how smart people can be, but we know that
dumb goes all the way to zero." -- Joe Chew

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 07/07/2021 02:15 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> When it happens, is there spark?
>
>Doesn't seem to be.

Measure it! Make sure!

>> When it happens, is there any voltage on coil primary?
>
>He hasn't found the coil yet :-(

While he's looking, have him locate the TDC sensor and/or crankshaft position
sensors. Those also need measuring.

Maybe there's no spark, maybe there is poor spark, maybe there is plenty of
spark but the timing is way off.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 7/7/2021 5:41 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 07/07/2021 02:15 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> The Real Bev  <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Starts fine when it's cold.  When it's warm, turned off for ~15 to 39
>>> minutes and is still warm, it cranks for a long time as if it's flooded
>>> and there's a strong smell of gas -- but no leakage to the ground.  When
>>> it finally catches, it runs really slow and you have to be really
>>> careful about feeding in more gas for perhaps half a minute.
>>>
>>> Now he carries a spare battery and jumper cables just in case.  This is
>>>  maddening.  Any ideas?
>>
>> When it happens, is there spark?
>
> Doesn't seem to be.
>
>> When it happens, is there any voltage on coil primary?
>
> He hasn't found the coil yet :-(
>
> SOMETIMES it starts when hot with no problem at all :-(
>
> I've never heard an engine sound like it does when it catches but is
> running really slow and trying to REALLY start.
>

Check ground connections.

--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

On 07/07/2021 03:57 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 07/07/2021 02:15 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> When it happens, is there spark?
>>
>>Doesn't seem to be.
>
> Measure it! Make sure!
>
>>> When it happens, is there any voltage on coil primary?
>>
>>He hasn't found the coil yet :-(
>
> While he's looking, have him locate the TDC sensor and/or crankshaft position
> sensors. Those also need measuring.
>
> Maybe there's no spark, maybe there is poor spark, maybe there is plenty of
> spark but the timing is way off.

It runs fine once it starts. Tonight it started hot with no problem.
Drove home, turned it off, tried to start it again immediately. CURSES!

He says this is a Honda trait -- intermittent failure. If there was a
complete failure you'd have a shot at diagnosing the problem!

Glad I bough a Toyota.

--
Cheers, Bev
"The almost universal access to higher education here in the US has
ruined a lot of potentially good manual laborers." -- Bob Hunt

The Real Bev wrote:
> On 07/07/2021 03:57 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> The Real Bev  <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 07/07/2021 02:15 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>> When it happens, is there spark?
>>>
>>> Doesn't seem to be.
>>
>> Measure it!  Make sure!
>>
>>>> When it happens, is there any voltage on coil primary?
>>>
>>> He hasn't found the coil yet :-(
>>
>> While he's looking, have him locate the TDC sensor and/or crankshaft
>> position
>> sensors.  Those also need measuring.
>>
>> Maybe there's no spark, maybe there is poor spark, maybe there is
>> plenty of
>> spark but the timing is way off.
>
> It runs fine once it starts.  Tonight it started hot with no problem.
> Drove home, turned it off, tried to start it again immediately.  CURSES!
>
> He says this is a Honda trait -- intermittent failure.  If there was a
> complete failure you'd have a shot at diagnosing the problem!
>
> Glad I bough a Toyota.

Sounds like a cam or crank sensor going bad.
Pointed out by Scott, too.

On 07/08/2021 04:07 PM, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 07/07/2021 03:57 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 07/07/2021 02:15 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>> When it happens, is there spark?
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't seem to be.
>>>
>>> Measure it! Make sure!
>>>
>>>>> When it happens, is there any voltage on coil primary?
>>>>
>>>> He hasn't found the coil yet :-(
>>>
>>> While he's looking, have him locate the TDC sensor and/or crankshaft
>>> position
>>> sensors. Those also need measuring.
>>>
>>> Maybe there's no spark, maybe there is poor spark, maybe there is
>>> plenty of
>>> spark but the timing is way off.
>>
>> It runs fine once it starts. Tonight it started hot with no problem.
>> Drove home, turned it off, tried to start it again immediately. CURSES!
>>
>> He says this is a Honda trait -- intermittent failure. If there was a
>> complete failure you'd have a shot at diagnosing the problem!
>>
>> Glad I bough a Toyota.
>
> Sounds like a cam or crank sensor going bad.
> Pointed out by Scott, too.

I've been looking at failure symptoms at various sites. Poor running of
one sort or another seems to be indicative, with intermittent starting
down near the bottom. Of the two, the crank sensor seems to be closer
to reality.

Further tests -- Fine spark on all plugs. Starting fluid does nothing
except ONCE it made the engine race when squirted directly into the
intake tube rather than at the air cleaner. Except for that, no
reaction. Tapping various things under the dashboard sometimes allows
starting, as does tapping various things under the hood. No
repeatability. Sensors are too expensive to buy on spec :-(

I wish I trusted even the GOOD mechanic, who was unable to make my 88
Caddy stop trying to kill me with its auto-throttle. He said the only
thing left to try was a throttle/computer part that wasn't even
obtainable from junkyards. Only solution was crushing, for which the
State of Kalifornia paid me $1K.

--
Cheers, Bev

On 07/26/2021 05:54 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 07/08/2021 04:07 PM, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 07/07/2021 03:57 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 07/07/2021 02:15 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>>> When it happens, is there spark?
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't seem to be.
>>>>
>>>> Measure it! Make sure!
>>>>
>>>>>> When it happens, is there any voltage on coil primary?
>>>>>
>>>>> He hasn't found the coil yet :-(
>>>>
>>>> While he's looking, have him locate the TDC sensor and/or crankshaft
>>>> position
>>>> sensors. Those also need measuring.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe there's no spark, maybe there is poor spark, maybe there is
>>>> plenty of
>>>> spark but the timing is way off.
>>>
>>> It runs fine once it starts. Tonight it started hot with no problem.
>>> Drove home, turned it off, tried to start it again immediately. CURSES!
>>>
>>> He says this is a Honda trait -- intermittent failure. If there was a
>>> complete failure you'd have a shot at diagnosing the problem!
>>>
>>> Glad I bough a Toyota.
>>
>> Sounds like a cam or crank sensor going bad.
>> Pointed out by Scott, too.
>
> I've been looking at failure symptoms at various sites. Poor running of
> one sort or another seems to be indicative, with intermittent starting
> down near the bottom. Of the two, the crank sensor seems to be closer
> to reality.
>
> Further tests -- Fine spark on all plugs. Starting fluid does nothing
> except ONCE it made the engine race when squirted directly into the
> intake tube rather than at the air cleaner. Except for that, no
> reaction. Tapping various things under the dashboard sometimes allows
> starting, as does tapping various things under the hood. No
> repeatability. Sensors are too expensive to buy on spec :-(
>
> I wish I trusted even the GOOD mechanic, who was unable to make my 88
> Caddy stop trying to kill me with its auto-throttle. He said the only
> thing left to try was a throttle/computer part that wasn't even
> obtainable from junkyards. Only solution was crushing, for which the
> State of Kalifornia paid me $1K.

Ultimately (10 for 10 at least) the solution was replacing the coolant
temperature sensor. The computer didn't see it while it was failing,
but ultimately it showed up. Replaced it ($25 or so mail order) and so
far so good.

I'm sure there's a rational explanation, but I don't want to think about
this any more :-(

Life was easier with thermostats and heat risers. Plus you could throw
one pretty far when you discovered the problem out in the middle of nowhere!

--
Cheers, Bev
"When I was a kid my dad once joked that the best way to
prevent being on a plane with someone carrying a bomb
would be to bring your own bomb and not detonate it.
Sounded convincing. What are the odds that two people
board, each with a bomb?" -- Rowdy

The Real Bev wrote:
> On 07/26/2021 05:54 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> (snip)
> Ultimately (10 for 10 at least) the solution was replacing the coolant
> temperature sensor.  The computer didn't see it while it was failing,
> but ultimately it showed up.  Replaced it ($25 or so mail order) and so
> far so good.
>
> I'm sure there's a rational explanation, but I don't want to think about
> this any more :-(
>
> Life was easier with thermostats and heat risers.  Plus you could throw
> one pretty far when you discovered the problem out in the middle of
> nowhere!

How interesting! One to remember.

On 08/12/2021 01:03 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 07/26/2021 05:54 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 07/08/2021 04:07 PM, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>> On 07/07/2021 03:57 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 07/07/2021 02:15 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>>>> When it happens, is there spark?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn't seem to be.
>>>>>
>>>>> Measure it! Make sure!
>>>>>
>>>>>>> When it happens, is there any voltage on coil primary?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He hasn't found the coil yet :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> While he's looking, have him locate the TDC sensor and/or crankshaft
>>>>> position
>>>>> sensors. Those also need measuring.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe there's no spark, maybe there is poor spark, maybe there is
>>>>> plenty of
>>>>> spark but the timing is way off.
>>>>
>>>> It runs fine once it starts. Tonight it started hot with no problem.
>>>> Drove home, turned it off, tried to start it again immediately. CURSES!
>>>>
>>>> He says this is a Honda trait -- intermittent failure. If there was a
>>>> complete failure you'd have a shot at diagnosing the problem!
>>>>
>>>> Glad I bough a Toyota.
>>>
>>> Sounds like a cam or crank sensor going bad.
>>> Pointed out by Scott, too.
>>
>> I've been looking at failure symptoms at various sites. Poor running of
>> one sort or another seems to be indicative, with intermittent starting
>> down near the bottom. Of the two, the crank sensor seems to be closer
>> to reality.
>>
>> Further tests -- Fine spark on all plugs. Starting fluid does nothing
>> except ONCE it made the engine race when squirted directly into the
>> intake tube rather than at the air cleaner. Except for that, no
>> reaction. Tapping various things under the dashboard sometimes allows
>> starting, as does tapping various things under the hood. No
>> repeatability. Sensors are too expensive to buy on spec :-(
>>
>> I wish I trusted even the GOOD mechanic, who was unable to make my 88
>> Caddy stop trying to kill me with its auto-throttle. He said the only
>> thing left to try was a throttle/computer part that wasn't even
>> obtainable from junkyards. Only solution was crushing, for which the
>> State of Kalifornia paid me $1K.
>
> Ultimately (10 for 10 at least) the solution was replacing the coolant
> temperature sensor. The computer didn't see it while it was failing,
> but ultimately it showed up. Replaced it ($25 or so mail order) and so
> far so good.

Error! $6.00 and cheap at twice the price!

> I'm sure there's a rational explanation, but I don't want to think about
> this any more :-(
>
> Life was easier with thermostats and heat risers. Plus you could throw
> one pretty far when you discovered the problem out in the middle of nowhere!

--
Cheers, Bev
I didn't break it! It was doing that before I broke it... er...