On 7/20/2023 8:15 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 7/20/2023 1:44 PM, Paul Awtandiloff wrote:
>> Volney wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/20/2023 4:27 AM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>> On 7/20/2023 1:24 AM, 💩💩💩💩💩💩 wrote:
>>> []
>>>
>>>> What would happen if Russia launched, say, 42 hyper sonic state of the
>>>> art anti ship missiles at a single US carrier?
>>>>
>>> No more 卐Ru⚡︎⚡︎ia卐, 30 minutes later. Even 卐Putler卐 isn't crazy
>>> enough to try that.
>>

>> Russia is a world class superpower. Ukraine is the poorest most corrupt
>> country in Europe, similar to america. Who do you think is going to
>> triumph?

卐Ru⚡︎⚡︎ia卐 was *never* a superpower. The USSR was, at one time. But the
USSR had Ukraine and 13 other countries as components, in addition to
Russia. Remember, 卐Ru⚡︎⚡︎ia卐 is not the USSR.

I think Ukraine was largely the brains behind the old USSR. That's why
Putler wants Ukraine for his USSR V2.0 dream.

卐Ru⚡︎⚡︎ia卐 has surpassed Ukraine in the corruption category. Both
countries inherited the USSR's corruption climate. Ukraine has been
fighting corruption since 2014, while Russia's oligarchs are as bad as
they ever were.

Since they have similar sized economies, if 卐Ru⚡︎⚡︎ia卐 is a superpower,
so are Italy and Spain.

>> Russia to disrupt nato weapon delivery thru poland by attacking lviv and
>> surrounding thru belarus

NATO Article 5 --> No more 卐Ru⚡︎⚡︎ia卐.
(Poland has a decent chance of marching to Moscow without anyone's help.
They're almost itching for a fight against 卐Ru⚡︎⚡︎ia卐)

> How do you know how many ballistic anti ship hyper sonic missiles it
> would take to cripple a US carrier? I am thinking about 42. If one gets
> through the defense, well, shit happens.

When they were developed, the USSR claimed the Kinzhal missile was an
"aircraft carrier killer". But we know now they can be shot down.

Volney wrote:

>>> Russia is a world class superpower. Ukraine is the poorest most
>>> corrupt country in Europe, similar to america. Who do you think is
>>> going to triumph?
>
> 卐R̶u̶⚡︎⚡︎i̶a̶卐 w̶a̶s̶ *n̶e̶v̶e̶r̶* a̶ s̶u̶p̶e̶r̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶. T̶h̶e̶ U̶S̶S̶R̶ w̶a̶s̶, a̶t̶ o̶n̶e̶ t̶i̶m̶e̶. But the

you mean cacamerica, you putrid sack of shit. Cacamerica. the
𝗻𝘂𝗺𝗯𝗲𝗿_𝘁𝘄𝗼_𝗶𝗻_𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗿𝘆𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴, when compared to Russia. Cacamerica, in need of
𝘁𝗼𝗻𝘀_𝗼𝗳_"𝗮𝗹𝗶𝗮𝘀", all khazar goy driven 𝗲𝗻𝘁𝗶𝘁𝗶𝗲𝘀, when to compete with Mother
Russia. If I been living in cacamerica, I would leave. That shithole
corporation is been atomized into a desert before, according to the data.
You stinking sack of lying shit. You did 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝘀_𝗺𝗶𝘀𝘁𝗮𝗸𝗲_𝗮𝗴𝗮𝗶𝗻, which explain
𝘁𝗵𝗲_𝗳𝘂𝗰𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴_𝗰𝗼𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗰𝘁𝗶𝘃𝗲_𝘄𝗲𝘀𝘁 and cacamerica 𝗮𝗿𝗲_𝗶𝗻_𝗱𝗲𝗲𝗽_𝘀𝗵𝗶𝘁.

also, it looks like 𝗧𝘂𝗿𝗸𝗲𝘆_𝗰𝗮𝗻𝗻𝗼𝘁_𝗯𝗲_𝘁𝗿𝘂𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗱 but far worse is the
𝗘𝗨_𝗮𝗻𝗱_𝗨𝗞_𝗿𝗲𝗴𝗶𝗺𝗲𝘀 for being decietful and greedy as they along with Turkey
help themselves to the grain bound for Africa and Asia. Along with the UN
renewging on its side of the deal, our President Putin had every right not
to renew the deal when it expired on July 17, 2023. Along with the
allogations 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁_𝗡𝗔𝗧𝗢 𝗘𝗨 𝗻𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀 𝘂𝘀𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗵𝘂𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗶𝘁𝗮𝗿𝗶𝗮𝗻 𝗰𝗼𝗿𝗿𝗶𝗱𝗼𝗿 𝘁𝗼 𝘀𝗺𝘂𝗴𝗴𝗹𝗲 𝗮𝗿𝗺𝘀
𝗶𝗻 𝘄𝗵𝗶𝗰𝗵 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝘂𝘀𝗲𝗱 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝘁𝗲𝗿𝗿𝗼𝗿𝗶𝘀𝗺 𝗮𝗴𝗮𝗶𝗻𝘀𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗗𝗼𝗻𝗯𝗮𝘀𝘀 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗥𝘂𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗮, we cannot allow
this type of use. I feel while President Putin's SMO is good at cutting
civilian casualties, while 𝗞𝗶𝗲𝘃_𝘁𝗲𝗿𝗿𝗼𝗿𝗶𝘀𝘁𝘀 are executing and targeting them
them, it is time to move this opperation to a 𝗾𝘂𝗶𝗰𝗸_𝗮𝗻𝗱_𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗮𝗹_𝗲𝗻𝗱; denying
Kiev its command and shutting out NATO in order to take full control of
Ukraine in order to secure Ukrainian and Russian territories, so Ukraine
can 𝗺𝗼𝘃𝗲_𝗯𝗮𝗰𝗸_𝘁𝗼_𝗯𝗲𝗶𝗻𝗴_𝗮𝗻_𝗶𝗻𝗱𝗲𝗽𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗲𝗻𝘁_𝗮𝗻𝗱_𝗱𝗲𝗺𝗼𝗰𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗰_𝗻𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 governed by
𝗮_𝘁𝗿𝘂𝗹𝘆_𝗨𝗸𝗿𝗮𝗶𝗻𝗶𝗮𝗻_𝗴𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗿𝗻𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁 which is a government for the people, 𝗻𝗼𝘁_𝘄𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗿𝗻
greed and power. If 𝘁𝗵𝗲_𝘄𝗲𝘀𝘁_𝘄𝗮𝗻𝘁𝘀_𝗨𝗸𝗿𝗮𝗶𝗻𝗶𝗮𝗻_𝗹𝗮𝗻𝗱_𝗮𝗻𝗱_𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗼𝘂𝗿𝗰𝗲𝘀 they go through
proper chanels 𝗮𝗻𝗱_𝗽𝗮𝘆_𝘁𝗵𝗲_𝗳𝘂𝗹𝗹_𝗺𝗮𝗿𝗸𝗲𝘁_𝘃𝗮𝗹𝘂𝗲 set by Ukraine not the west. This
will ensure that 𝘁𝗵𝗲_𝗨𝗸𝗮𝗶𝗻𝗶𝗮𝗻_𝗽𝗲𝗼𝗽𝗹𝗲_𝗴𝗲𝘁_𝘁𝗵𝗲_𝗿𝗲𝘄𝗮𝗿𝗱𝘀 they deserve and 𝗻𝗼𝘁 𝘁𝗿𝗲𝗮𝘁𝗲𝗱
𝗹𝗶𝗸𝗲 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗽𝗲𝗼𝗽𝗹𝗲 𝗶𝗻 𝗔𝗳𝗿𝗶𝗰𝗮 where 𝘄𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗿𝗻_𝘀𝘁𝗮𝘁𝗲𝘀_𝗽𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗮𝗴𝗲_𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗶𝗿_𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗼𝘂𝗿𝗰𝗲𝘀 and the people
receive no benefits what so ever. So, time to bring back reality.
𝗧𝗵𝗲_𝘄𝗲𝘀𝘁_𝗰𝗮𝗻_𝗴𝗼_𝘁𝗮𝗸𝗲_𝗮_𝗿𝘂𝗻𝗻𝗶𝗻𝗴_𝗷𝘂𝗺𝗽_𝗮𝗻𝗱_𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗸_𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵_𝘁𝗵𝗲_𝗨𝗦_𝗿𝗲𝗴𝗶𝗺𝗲.

https://r%74.com/ru%73%73ia/580125-kiev-grain-deal-military-supplies/

Volney wrote:

>>> Russia to disrupt nato weapon delivery thru poland by attacking lviv
>>> and surrounding thru belarus
>
> N̶A̶T̶O̶ A̶r̶t̶i̶c̶l̶e̶ 5 --> N̶o̶ m̶o̶r̶e̶ 卐R̶u̶⚡︎⚡︎i̶a̶卐.

𝘄𝗲_𝗳𝘂𝗰𝗸_𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿_𝗮𝘀𝘀! Get out 𝗼𝗳 𝗦𝘆𝗿𝗶𝗮, you stinking braindead freak. Otherwise
𝘆𝗼𝘂_𝗴𝗼𝗻𝗻𝗮_𝗳𝗲𝗲𝗹_𝘁𝗵𝗲_𝗥𝘂𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗮𝗻_𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗶𝗰𝗹𝗲_5, from many countries you are stealing
from. You 𝗱𝗶𝘀𝗴𝘂𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘀𝗮𝗰𝗸 𝗼𝗳 𝗽𝘂𝘁𝗿𝗶𝗱 𝗲𝘅𝗰𝗿𝗲𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁.

𝗥𝗼𝗯𝗲𝗿𝘁 𝗙. 𝗞𝗲𝗻𝗻𝗲𝗱𝘆 𝗝𝗿: ‘𝗙𝗮𝘂𝗰𝗶 𝗠𝘂𝘀𝘁 𝗕𝗲 𝗖𝗵𝗮𝗿𝗴𝗲𝗱 𝗪𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝗛𝗼𝗺𝗶𝗰𝗶𝗱𝗲, 𝗛𝗲 𝗞𝗡𝗘𝗪 𝗧𝗵𝗮𝘁
𝗥𝗲𝗺𝗱𝗲𝘀𝗶𝘃𝗶𝗿 𝗪𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱 𝗞𝗶𝗹𝗹 𝗬𝗼𝘂’
Anthony Fauci knew that using ventilators and giving Remdesivir to Covid
patients would kill them in large numbers, reducing the population of the
world, according to presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who
provided evidence […]

𝗙𝘂𝗹𝗹𝘆 𝗩𝗮𝗰𝗰𝗶𝗻𝗮𝘁𝗲𝗱 𝗝𝗮𝗺𝗶𝗲 𝗙𝗼𝘅𝘅 𝗦𝗽𝗲𝗮𝗸𝘀 𝗢𝘂𝘁 𝗔𝗳𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝗠𝘆𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗿𝘆 𝗜𝗹𝗹𝗻𝗲𝘀𝘀, 𝗦𝗮𝘆𝘀 𝗗𝗼𝗰𝘁𝗼𝗿𝘀 𝗔𝗿𝗲
𝗕𝗮𝗳𝗳𝗹𝗲𝗱
Fully vaccinated Hollywood actor Jamie Foxx posted a video on Instagram on
Friday thanking his supporters for their prayers as he recovered from a
life-threatening and mysterious medical complication he suffered in April
that almost […]

𝗢𝗳𝗳𝗶𝗰𝗲 𝗢𝗳 𝗦𝗲𝗻. 𝗥𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗣𝗮𝘂𝗹 𝗗𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗿𝗼𝘆𝗲𝗱 𝗕𝘆 𝗙𝗶𝗿𝗲
The office of Republican US Sen. Rand Paul was destroyed by a raging fire
in the early hours of Friday morning with the cause of the blaze currently
unknown. The fire at Rand Paul’s downtown […]

𝗝𝗼𝗵𝗻 𝗞𝗶𝗿𝗯𝘆 𝗦𝗮𝘆𝘀 𝗨𝗸𝗿𝗮𝗶𝗻𝗲’𝘀 𝗨𝘀𝗲 𝗢𝗳 𝗖𝗹𝘂𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝗕𝗼𝗺𝗯𝘀 𝗔𝗴𝗮𝗶𝗻𝘀𝘁 𝗥𝘂𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗮𝗻 𝗧𝗿𝗼𝗼𝗽𝘀 ‘𝗤𝘂𝗶𝘁𝗲
𝗘𝗳𝗳𝗲𝗰𝘁𝗶𝘃𝗲’
Officials in Ukrainian officials have confirmed that their forces have
begun firing controversial US provided cluster munitions at Russian
positions in southeastern Ukraine. The news has also been validated by the
White House. The US […]

𝗞𝗿𝗲𝗺𝗹𝗶𝗻 𝗖𝗹𝗮𝗶𝗺𝘀 𝗨𝗦 𝗠𝗶𝗹𝗶𝘁𝗮𝗿𝘆 𝗪𝗮𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗱 𝗧𝗼 𝗘𝘅𝗽𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗢𝗻 𝗟𝗼𝗰𝗮𝗹𝘀 𝗜𝗻 𝗔𝗳𝗿𝗶𝗰𝗮 𝗙𝗼𝗿 𝗕𝗶𝗴 𝗣𝗵𝗮𝗿𝗺𝗮
The Pentagon planned to use its biolaboratories in Africa to test
unregistered medicines on local populations on behalf of “big pharma,”
according to a report byTass. General Igor Kirillov, the Chief of Russia’s
Radiation, Chemical […]

𝗛𝘂𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝗕𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗻’𝘀 𝗟𝗮𝘄𝘆𝗲𝗿 𝗖𝗮𝘂𝗴𝗵𝘁 𝗦𝗺𝗼𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗖𝗿𝗮𝗰𝗸 𝗼𝗻 𝗕𝗮𝗹𝗰𝗼𝗻𝘆 𝗪𝗵𝗶𝗹𝗲 𝗩𝗶𝘀𝗶𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗣𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗻𝘁’𝘀 𝗦𝗼𝗻
Hunter Biden visited his ‘sugar brother’ lawyer Kevin Morris this week –
who was photographed smoking crack from his Hollywood balcony. The drug-
addled First Son took a trip from his Malibu home to the Pacific […]

𝗗𝗮𝘂𝗴𝗵𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝗼𝗳 𝗕𝗶𝗴 𝗣𝗵𝗮𝗿𝗺𝗮 𝗘𝘅𝗲𝗰𝘂𝘁𝗶𝘃𝗲 𝗗𝗶𝗲𝘀 ‘𝗦𝘂𝗱𝗱𝗲𝗻𝗹𝘆’ 𝗙𝗼𝗹𝗹𝗼𝘄𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗖𝗢𝗩𝗜𝗗 𝗝𝗮𝗯
The daughter of a Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine executive “died
suddenly” earlier this month after being forced to take the jab that her
father helped produce. According to her family, 10-year-old girl Kelsey
Corinne […]

𝗕𝗶𝗹𝗹 𝗚𝗮𝘁𝗲𝘀’ 𝗪𝗛𝗢 𝗚𝗿𝗮𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗱 $9 𝗠𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗙𝗿𝗼𝗺 𝗖𝗮𝗻𝗮𝗱𝗮 𝘁𝗼 𝗠𝗮𝘀𝘀 𝗩𝗮𝗰𝗰𝗶𝗻𝗮𝘁𝗲 𝗡𝗶𝗴𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗮 𝗪𝗶𝘁𝗵
𝗗𝗲𝗽𝗼𝗽𝘂𝗹𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗝𝗮𝗯
The Bill Gates-funded WHO has been granted a $9 million grant from the
Canadian government to mass vaccinate people in Nigeria with toxic mRNA
jabs. In 2020, a worldwide controversy erupted in Nigeria. Bill Gates was
[…]

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/

Am 22.07.2023 um 20:36 schrieb Volney:

>
>> How do you know how many ballistic anti ship hyper sonic missiles it
>> would take to cripple a US carrier? I am thinking about 42. If one
>> gets through the defense, well, shit happens.
>
> When they were developed, the USSR claimed the Kinzhal missile was an
> "aircraft carrier killer". But we know now they can be shot down.

I don't know, what kind of weapons the Russians have, but I'm pretty
certain, they can prevent US carriers from entering the Black Sea.

The Russians had actually all the time in the world to prepare for such
an event, since they live quite a while within their geographic region
and had most likely already considered the importance of the Black Sea
for their own security.

So, they have most likely some sort of weapon, which is able to destroys
carriers.

But possibly they don't and the carriers could actually enter the Black
Sea without danger.

I would think, this is highly unlike, but possibly the US Navy wants to
check that out.

TH

On Sunday, 23 July 2023 at 08:34:53 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 22.07.2023 um 20:36 schrieb Volney:
>
> >
> >> How do you know how many ballistic anti ship hyper sonic missiles it
> >> would take to cripple a US carrier? I am thinking about 42. If one
> >> gets through the defense, well, shit happens.
> >
> > When they were developed, the USSR claimed the Kinzhal missile was an
> > "aircraft carrier killer". But we know now they can be shot down.
> I don't know, what kind of weapons the Russians have, but I'm pretty
> certain, they can prevent US carriers from entering the Black Sea.

Nobody sane would operate carriers at Black Sea.

Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 22.07.2023 um 20:36 schrieb Volney:
>> When they were developed, the USSR claimed the Kinzhal missile was an
>> "aircraft carrier killer". But we know now they can be shot down.
>
> I don't know, what kind of weapons the Russians have, but I'm pretty
> certain, they can prevent US carriers from entering the Black Sea.

don't bother, the Kibo Pari Morony is an idiot. I hear 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘁𝗲𝗿𝗿𝗶𝘁𝗼𝗿𝘆 𝗼𝗳
𝗣𝗼𝗹𝗮𝗸𝗶𝗮 𝗶𝘀 𝗮𝗰𝘁𝘂𝗮𝗹𝗹𝘆 𝗴𝗶𝘃𝗲𝗻 𝗯𝘆 𝗦𝘁𝗮𝗹𝗶𝗻 to them, and now the Wagner wants to
𝘁𝗲𝗮𝗰𝗵 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗺 𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗽𝗲𝗰𝘁. It would be wonderful, these 𝗺𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗳𝘂𝗰𝗸𝗲𝗿
𝘂𝗻𝗱𝗲𝗿𝗱𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗹𝗼𝗽𝗲𝗱 𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗮𝗸𝗲𝗿𝘀 electricians, shamelessly openly wanted to kill
Russia.

was I polaker, I would change my name already and move to america. Or
south america, 𝘄𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗛𝗶𝘁𝗹𝗲𝗻 𝗻𝗮𝘇𝗶𝘀 𝗮𝗿𝗲. What a fucking disgrace, having
the polakia in the fucking europe. 𝗧𝗿𝗮𝗶𝘁𝗼𝗿𝘀 𝗲𝗮𝗰𝗵 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗿𝘆𝗼𝗻𝗲.

𝗪𝗮𝗴𝗻𝗲𝗿_𝗳𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁𝗲𝗿𝘀_𝘄𝗮𝗻𝘁_𝘁𝗼_'𝘃𝗶𝘀𝗶𝘁'_𝗣𝗼𝗹𝗮𝗻𝗱_–_𝗟𝘂𝗸𝗮𝘀𝗵𝗲𝗻𝗸𝗼_
https://r%74.com/ru%73%73ia/580145-wagner-fighters-concern-us-lukashenko/

Most shocking part of this is that somebody wants to visit Poland.

cacamerica wants/wanted 𝗱𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗿𝗼𝘆_𝗲𝘂𝗿𝗼𝗽𝗲_𝘁𝗵𝗿𝗼𝘂𝗴𝗵_𝗳𝗮𝘀𝗰𝗶𝘀𝘁_𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗮𝗸𝗶𝗮. Actually
is what they already did. You will have no friends in europe, polakia.

𝐀𝐟𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐖𝐚𝐫𝐬𝐚𝐰, 𝐬𝐭𝐫𝐞𝐭𝐜𝐡 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐢𝐫 𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐫𝐲 𝐭𝐨 𝐌𝐮𝐧𝐢𝐜𝐡, 𝐁𝐞𝐫𝐥𝐢𝐧 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐅𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐤𝐟𝐮𝐫𝐭

Oh God I hope they do this! I can hear 𝘁𝗵𝗲_𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗼𝗰𝗸𝘀_𝘀𝗰𝗿𝗲𝗮𝗺𝗶𝗻𝗴_𝘁𝗼_𝗡𝗔𝗙𝗢 for
help all the way from over here!

Let the cowardly Polish warmongers make the mistake of attacking first so
that Wagner won't be blamed for an unprovoked attack...

𝗡𝗔𝗧𝗢_𝗺𝗮𝗱𝗲_𝘁𝗵𝗲_𝗺𝗶𝘀𝘁𝗮𝗸𝗲_𝗯𝘆_𝘀𝗵𝗼𝘄𝗶𝗻𝗴_𝗥𝘂𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗮_𝗵𝗼𝘄_𝘄𝗲𝗮𝗸_𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘆_𝗮𝗿𝗲. They cannot
secure any country against Russia. If Wagner attack Poland and NATO
applies article 5, than it will be like skeet shooting for russians. NATO
Jets will be like clay targets.

How can article 5 be invoked on a PMC? Anyone who thinks NATO would start
yet another world war for Poland's sake is sorely mistaken. It is many
times 𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐞 𝐥𝐢𝐤𝐞𝐥𝐲 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐏𝐨𝐥𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐟𝐨𝐥𝐥𝐨𝐰 𝐢𝐧 𝐔𝐤𝐫𝐚𝐢𝐧𝐞'𝐬 𝐟𝐨𝐨𝐭𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐩𝐬, becoming the new
buffer zone and later the new battering ram.. My hope and working theory
is that this is a check-mate situation and secret peace talks are already
being conducted.

On 7/21/2023 12:50 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 20.07.2023 um 22:10 schrieb Chris M. Thomasson:
>> On 7/20/2023 7:48 AM, Volney wrote:
>>> On 7/20/2023 4:27 AM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>> On 7/20/2023 1:24 AM, 💩💩💩💩💩💩 wrote:
>>> []
>>>
>>>> What would happen if Russia launched, say, 42 hyper sonic state of
>>>> the art anti ship missiles at a single US carrier?
>>>>
>>> No more 卐Ru⚡︎⚡︎ia卐, 30 minutes later.
>>>
>>> Even 卐Putler卐 isn't crazy enough to try that.
>
> The problem for the US fleet:
>
> the Russians have their naval base upon the Crimean peninsula, from
> where they can efficiantly control the Black Sea.

Except they really can't. The Black Sea fleet doesn't dare get close to
SW Ukraine because they're in range of Ukrainian missile. Plus Turkey's
navy is formidable.

The Black Sea fleet does have very long range missiles, they can attack
just about anywhere in the Black Sea and Ukraine proper but they have to
cower out of range to do so.
>
> This fact is actually the real cause of the current war, because the US
> cannot attack Russia without ships. And as long as the Russians can sink
> any vessel entering the Black Sea, the US Navy cannot approach Russian
> borders.

If 卐Ru⚡︎⚡︎ia卐 sinks a US warship, Article 5 gets invoked and shortly
after, no more 卐Ru⚡︎⚡︎ian卐 Black Sea Fleet.
>
> Anyhow, I could imagine, that the Russians are somehow able and also
> willing to sink any carrier or other warship entering the Black Sea,
> hence that will most likely not happen.

It may not happen because a treaty allows Turkey to deny access to the
Black Sea.

> The Russians have also another unfortunate option: they could use their
> fleet to attack the Ukraine from sea with their battleships.

They're already doing that. They have long range missiles that can reach
all of Ukraine.
>
> As the Ukraine has no such ships, this would be a very asymmetric
> attack. And the Nato cannot efficiently help, because they cannot bring
> their ships into the Black Sea.

NATO hasn't entered this war. NATO countries have only supplied military
equipment to Ukraine.
>
> So, in effect the Crimean peninsula is the key to the conflict and
> that's why the Russians will defend that position by everything they
> have at their disposal.
>
>
> TH
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Am 23.07.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Volney:
> On 7/21/2023 12:50 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 20.07.2023 um 22:10 schrieb Chris M. Thomasson:
>>> On 7/20/2023 7:48 AM, Volney wrote:
>>>> On 7/20/2023 4:27 AM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>>> On 7/20/2023 1:24 AM, 💩💩💩💩💩💩 wrote:
>>>> []
>>>>
>>>>> What would happen if Russia launched, say, 42 hyper sonic state of
>>>>> the art anti ship missiles at a single US carrier?
>>>>>
>>>> No more 卐Ru⚡︎⚡︎ia卐, 30 minutes later.
>>>>
>>>> Even 卐Putler卐 isn't crazy enough to try that.
>>
>> The problem for the US fleet:
>>
>> the Russians have their naval base upon the Crimean peninsula, from
>> where they can efficiantly control the Black Sea.
>
> Except they really can't. The Black Sea fleet doesn't dare get close to
> SW Ukraine because they're in range of Ukrainian missile. Plus Turkey's
> navy is formidable.

The Crimean peninsula is actually land. And almost certainly the
Russians have land based weapons there, which are able to sink any kind
of hostile vessel, including carriers.

These weapons are certainly hidden in bunkers, where they are very hard
to destroy.

> The Black Sea fleet does have very long range missiles, they can attack
> just about anywhere in the Black Sea and Ukraine proper but they have to
> cower out of range to do so.

It is actually much easier and safer to attack from land than from a ship.

So, a defender who aims to defend territory against enemy ships is in
advantage, if the enemies have no land but only ships.

In this case the defenders on land can use land based batteries, which
are often very difficult to destroy, while ships are a huge, slow and
weak targets.

US carriers are certainly armed to the teeth, but still they are
extremely bulky and relatively slow vihecles, which are almost
impossible to miss.

So the Russians had an advantage, if their aim is to defend the Crimean
peninsula.

>>
>> This fact is actually the real cause of the current war, because the
>> US cannot attack Russia without ships. And as long as the Russians can
>> sink any vessel entering the Black Sea, the US Navy cannot approach
>> Russian borders.
....
>> The Russians have also another unfortunate option: they could use
>> their fleet to attack the Ukraine from sea with their battleships.
>
> They're already doing that. They have long range missiles that can reach
> all of Ukraine.

Sure, but ship guns are extremely large and can level entire cities with
ease.

>> As the Ukraine has no such ships, this would be a very asymmetric
>> attack. And the Nato cannot efficiently help, because they cannot
>> bring their ships into the Black Sea.
>
> NATO hasn't entered this war. NATO countries have only supplied military
> equipment to Ukraine.

Well, yes.

But also NATO troops are in a very unfortunate strategic position, too,
in case they wanted to enter Ukraine from Poland, for instance.

This is so, because Ukraine is a very flat country and provides little
hiding possibilities.

Therefore advancing troops coming from the West had to pass almost two
thousand kilometers of very flat plaines, where the land provides almost
no protection.

Even high speed war-planes had trouble to pass this distance, since even
the fastest planes would need almost an hour to fly from Poland to the
Eastern Ukraine, what gives the Russians more than enough time to
prepare their air defense.

....

TH

On Monday, 24 July 2023 at 08:21:50 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:

> It is actually much easier and safer to attack from land than from a ship.

Right, so - if US wanted to engage on Black Sea - they would
negotiate and use the land airfields of their allies.

Am 24.07.2023 um 08:37 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
> On Monday, 24 July 2023 at 08:21:50 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
>
>> It is actually much easier and safer to attack from land than from a ship.
>
> Right, so - if US wanted to engage on Black Sea - they would
> negotiate and use the land airfields of their allies.
>

Sure.

But in this case the closest alies would be Poland, Romania and the
Baltic Republics.

In case of Poland an aircraft would need to fly about 1200 km from
Poland to the eastern Ukraine, before they could attack their enemies.

This would take roughly half an hour for a very fast plane.

These planes cannot be hidden, not even with stealth technology, because
the Russians have space stations, which are certainly able to view in
the heat spectrum from the sky.

Within that half hour the Russians could drink an coffee and discuss the
best defence agianst that plane, walk slowly past their air field, arm
the anti-aircraft batteries and shoot that plane down,

Better would be carriers in the Black Sea.

But the only possible water way for a carrier is through the
Dardanelles, Marmara Sea and the Bosposrus.

The Bosposros runs, unfortunately, through the center of the huge and
very busy town Istanbul.

There it would be possible, that third parties of the 'Taliban type'
would regard it feasable to sink a carrier from their enemy USA.

But it is extremely difficult to hide something as huge as a carrier in
the middle of a busy city.

And it is also extremely difficult to control all of the inhabitans of
Istanbul, because the Turks all look a little like Talibans.

TH

On Tuesday, 25 July 2023 at 07:20:59 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 24.07.2023 um 08:37 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
> > On Monday, 24 July 2023 at 08:21:50 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
> >
> >> It is actually much easier and safer to attack from land than from a ship.
> >
> > Right, so - if US wanted to engage on Black Sea - they would
> > negotiate and use the land airfields of their allies.
> >
> Sure.
>
> But in this case the closest alies would be Poland, Romania and the
> Baltic Republics.

I'm sure Ukrainians would gladly make their bases availiable.
Not sure how about Turkey.

Am 25.07.2023 um 07:48 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
> On Tuesday, 25 July 2023 at 07:20:59 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 24.07.2023 um 08:37 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
>>> On Monday, 24 July 2023 at 08:21:50 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is actually much easier and safer to attack from land than from a ship.
>>>
>>> Right, so - if US wanted to engage on Black Sea - they would
>>> negotiate and use the land airfields of their allies.
>>>
>> Sure.
>>
>> But in this case the closest alies would be Poland, Romania and the
>> Baltic Republics.
>
> I'm sure Ukrainians would gladly make their bases availiable.
> Not sure how about Turkey.
>

Sure, but the Nato would not use these bases, because the Nato is sofar
not a party in this war.

If the Nato would send their own tropps into the Ukraine, the Nato would
become a participant in the conflict and that conflict a war between
Nato and Russia.

Both side seemingly try to avoid this and talk about 'special
operations' in case of Russia or send arms, but no soldiers.

If, on the other hand, the Nato would send troops and build own barracks
and air-fields, the Russians would attack them with all they have.

And the Russians have a lot and are also much closer to the Ukraine than
e.g. the USA.

So advancing troops into the Ukraine is kind of risky and still not what
the Nato wants.

TH

On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 09:17:02 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 25.07.2023 um 07:48 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
> > On Tuesday, 25 July 2023 at 07:20:59 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
> >> Am 24.07.2023 um 08:37 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
> >>> On Monday, 24 July 2023 at 08:21:50 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> It is actually much easier and safer to attack from land than from a ship.
> >>>
> >>> Right, so - if US wanted to engage on Black Sea - they would
> >>> negotiate and use the land airfields of their allies.
> >>>
> >> Sure.
> >>
> >> But in this case the closest alies would be Poland, Romania and the
> >> Baltic Republics.
> >
> > I'm sure Ukrainians would gladly make their bases availiable.
> > Not sure how about Turkey.
> >
> Sure, but the Nato would not use these bases, because the Nato is sofar
> not a party in this war.
>
> If the Nato would send their own tropps into the Ukraine, the Nato would
> become a participant in the conflict and that conflict a war between
> Nato and Russia.

Well, aren't we considering a hypothetical war of Nato
against Russia? So - what are we considering?

Am 26.07.2023 um 09:49 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
> On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 09:17:02 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 25.07.2023 um 07:48 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
>>> On Tuesday, 25 July 2023 at 07:20:59 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>> Am 24.07.2023 um 08:37 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
>>>>> On Monday, 24 July 2023 at 08:21:50 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is actually much easier and safer to attack from land than from a ship.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right, so - if US wanted to engage on Black Sea - they would
>>>>> negotiate and use the land airfields of their allies.
>>>>>
>>>> Sure.
>>>>
>>>> But in this case the closest alies would be Poland, Romania and the
>>>> Baltic Republics.
>>>
>>> I'm sure Ukrainians would gladly make their bases availiable.
>>> Not sure how about Turkey.
>>>
>> Sure, but the Nato would not use these bases, because the Nato is sofar
>> not a party in this war.
>>
>> If the Nato would send their own tropps into the Ukraine, the Nato would
>> become a participant in the conflict and that conflict a war between
>> Nato and Russia.
>
> Well, aren't we considering a hypothetical war of Nato
> against Russia? So - what are we considering?
>

I was actually discussing the war, which is apparently happening now in
the Ukraine. The hypothetical part was used as means to estimate the
actions of the participants in the future.

But, on the other hand, the topic is actually VERY off-topic here, hence
we could stop this discussion now.

TH